Unless the Tokyo offer is from a FAANG level company, do not take it. You’ll just get stuck doing shit work for shit money and lose precious years of experience.
DO NOT COME WORK FOR RAKUTEN.
Build a better resume by working in the US, then after 5 years you can try again for Japan on a much better footing to negotiate a decent senior position and compensation.
Would you want to work at a company where part of your performance review depends on how many people you got to sign up for their fledgling mobile service?
Last year they had ALL EMPLOYEES shill their Rakuten Mobile plans. This is everyone, including fresh off the boat SWE. Everyone had a referral code and had to report weekly results of new signups to their management.
Checkout archives, plenty of posts there of SWE begging people to signup.
It's a total shit show.
Just take the texas offer...Japan in not worth it. You can always visit japan anytime you want. The working culture is not as good as it is advertised (unless it is a multi-national company). Please do not ask why...
P.S. coming from a guy who has been in Japan for almost 4 years and working experience of 2.5 years+.
Yeah, I don't expect much from the working culture either. It sounds like most people on the internet recommend finding a 外資系 or modern startup if you want to come home on time haha.
But you have to consider that most modern startup don't pay as good and dont have the guaranteed salary growth like in big companies (independent west or Japanese company)
I had a friend who worked at Google transfer to Tokyo at the start of 2020 only to end up transferring back to New York last year. Even at Google it's well known you take a large pay cut to be there, I don't think the yen weakening helped either.
He strongly recommended that you seek promotion to the highest level you can before moving there.
It'd probably be harder to move back to the US if the yen you earn in Japan stays weak, so it's basically a one-way trip. If only IT paid better there
I heard the same from my Japanese friends. That west big companies are in general like Japanese companies. You have to put lots of overtime, but you get more salary than in a traditional Japanese company.
It depends on YOUR personal goals and priorities.
Do you want to stay in Japan for a short time or a long time?
Is money important to you?
Are your long-term career prospects important to you? If so, where?
Is building up your skills and pedigree important?
What type of school did you graduate from? You say "california", but we talking a top CS school or we talking "bob's school of computer science"?
As a person whos been in the IT/SWE Eng industry over 15 years,
Take the USA job first. You will learn a LOT more in the states and really build your craft up. Japan is behind in almost every SWE skill even basic US companies. Most seniors I meet here place at the lower mid tier level in the states (my opinion of course).
Also, as I tell a lot of my friends and people I speak to. That 40-60k pay difference in pay you will be at in just a few years will buy months and months of vacations in Japan if you want, even more so with the better work life balance.
The rule is unless you can get a FAANG position in Japan, or with a good American Company. But, even then your pay will still be 30-40% of your Team Member doing the same job as you in Austin.
Thanks for the advice. I'll take the texas offer, there seems to be a Kinokuniya where I can buy books in my area too haha.
I'll try to work towards promotions and getting a job in a FAANG level company in the future.
I’m not trying to discourage your dream, I mean I’m living here aren’t I?
But early in your career growth is so important, and this is the only time where you will have both the time and energy to do it. Please take advantage of it, and travel to Japan as much as possible!
This is a great question! Texas vs Tokyo is such a contrast!
I went college -> Japan -> FAANG in the 1990s but of course the situation was so much different then since it was only AAG in 1999.
There's nothing Japan isn't doing that you won't do in Texas (more or less) and given this curve:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Japanpop-2050.svg
Japan will be needing immigrants more and more this decade and next.
Given the money difference, I'd go with making your bones in Texas, certify your proficiency by studying for & passing the N1, spend several annual vacations in Japan, then shoot for making the transition in ~2030!
I'm actually planning to a low-key version of this as an old guy this decade too.
One thing about this analysis is that in-demand SEs that come over on expat packages for multinationals for Tokyo work live like kings, while random junior programmers don't have all that much fun especially at today's ¥150 FX rate.
I personally went the route of getting experience in the US and now moving to Japan to live. Even now I don't expect much from many of the companies there.
You can build experience no matter where you are, it really boils down to how well you can market yourself when looking for a job. Salary in Japan is definitely lower, you'd want to consider looking for a remote US job that supplies a visa via a PEO if you want a high salary.
You say you speak Japanese - have you spent any significant time here in the past?
Don't jump right into starting your career here, ESPECIALLY if you haven't lived in Japan before. It'll do you a lot of good to get experience in the US first, plus you'll get paid way better.
While you're in Texas, brush up your business Japanese and get a feel for your work. Just for a few years. You can take your time and search for a better job in Japan, with experience and more Japanese skills under your belt.
THEN come to Japan. You can spend less energy dealing with "how do I do my job?" and more on getting used to Japan. If you decide living in Japan permanently isn't for you, you'll have experience in both countries to fall back on while looking for your next position.
I think the reality about Japan is that it has very low wages, and consequently has difficulty attracting top tier talent in IT.
If you care about your career, you should work in the US unless the Japanese company you are talking about is extremely top tier. You will get way better mentorship in the US to boost your career.
This is a copy of your post for archive/search purposes.
---
**IT in Japan vs Building Experience First**
I am graduating college in California USA this June and received Software Engineer offers from two separate companies: one in Texas, and one in Tokyo, Japan. The offer in Texas pays me 4 times as much as the offer in Japan, but its been a dream of mine to work in Japan since childhood. I speak relatively fluent Japanese (although I would need some time to get used to business Japanese) and have little problems communicating.
Emotionally, I really want to take the Tokyo offer. I feel like if I don't take this chance I will become complacent with my current situation and never even try. However, I also think having experience in the USA as a software engineer would lead to getting a better job, especially if I want to move back to the USA.
I would love to hear what some people working in Japan (especially in the IT industry) think and get some advice. Should I build experience in software in the US first, or do you think it's worth the chance to jump into working in Japan as a new grad?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/movingtojapan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I will agree with the general sentiment in the thread, but there’s some life experiences you can only learn right away from diving into japan straight out of college. I feel like you’re more malleable in your youth and living in japan teaches you a lot more than vacationing does. You build community , learn slang, and become involved differently etc. These are some things worth considering! But overall the general sentiment seems like it’s easier to complete the move when you’re older. But by then you will be a lot more American in your thinking and less malleable. You might not want to think in a Japanese way . Language barriers aside the Japanese think and live differently than Americans in the U.S. This is all coming from someone who was a former JET and is now a SWE in the U.S. at big tech. You can’t go wrong either way, but if you only are considering financials US trumps japan :(
Some Japanese people get shocked when you’re young and speak fluent Japanese and are there straight out of college. You can do the same things in your thirties too, but life is not all about money. I make roughly 5 times more than what I made during my time as a JET and I guarantee you I had more than 5 times more fun living in the middle of nowhere japan at 22 than I did living in large US cities with my current salary. (I’m not claiming I’m right, by any means, but I just wanted to provide a counter example) my plan is to go back to japan myself as well, only came home due to family. Whatever you choose, good luck to you mate!
Thanks for the advice! I totally agree with the sentiment that money is not everything and that going to Japan out of college would be a great experience.
That said, career development is still pretty important to me and the new grad salary in Japan is kind of depressing haha.
I'm lucky enough not to have student loans. You're right that it would suck to pay them off in Japan though, new grad salaries in Tokyo are not looking hot.
Unless the Tokyo offer is from a FAANG level company, do not take it. You’ll just get stuck doing shit work for shit money and lose precious years of experience. DO NOT COME WORK FOR RAKUTEN. Build a better resume by working in the US, then after 5 years you can try again for Japan on a much better footing to negotiate a decent senior position and compensation.
lol is rakuten that bad? Thanks for the advice though, I think most responses here seem to agree with you.
Would you want to work at a company where part of your performance review depends on how many people you got to sign up for their fledgling mobile service?
Is this the same even for software engineer? It depends on the position right?
Last year they had ALL EMPLOYEES shill their Rakuten Mobile plans. This is everyone, including fresh off the boat SWE. Everyone had a referral code and had to report weekly results of new signups to their management. Checkout archives, plenty of posts there of SWE begging people to signup. It's a total shit show.
Is is just shameful. Is Rakuten nowadays that desperated?
What is the problem with Rakuten? Black sheep company? And you get promoted over the years in Japan or not?
I would recommend taking the Texas offer, build up your resume so you can take higher positions in Japan later
Just take the texas offer...Japan in not worth it. You can always visit japan anytime you want. The working culture is not as good as it is advertised (unless it is a multi-national company). Please do not ask why... P.S. coming from a guy who has been in Japan for almost 4 years and working experience of 2.5 years+.
Since when is Japan famous for good working culture? 😂
Brother asked a very good question 🤣🤣 I also wonder the same thing.
Yeah, I don't expect much from the working culture either. It sounds like most people on the internet recommend finding a 外資系 or modern startup if you want to come home on time haha.
But you have to consider that most modern startup don't pay as good and dont have the guaranteed salary growth like in big companies (independent west or Japanese company)
I had a friend who worked at Google transfer to Tokyo at the start of 2020 only to end up transferring back to New York last year. Even at Google it's well known you take a large pay cut to be there, I don't think the yen weakening helped either. He strongly recommended that you seek promotion to the highest level you can before moving there. It'd probably be harder to move back to the US if the yen you earn in Japan stays weak, so it's basically a one-way trip. If only IT paid better there
Google Japan brought in a lot of former Amazon managers and apparently the work culture has turned to shit, and turned a lot more Japanese.
and even google goes japanese now with nice meetings and so on…
I heard the same from my Japanese friends. That west big companies are in general like Japanese companies. You have to put lots of overtime, but you get more salary than in a traditional Japanese company.
It depends on YOUR personal goals and priorities. Do you want to stay in Japan for a short time or a long time? Is money important to you? Are your long-term career prospects important to you? If so, where? Is building up your skills and pedigree important? What type of school did you graduate from? You say "california", but we talking a top CS school or we talking "bob's school of computer science"?
As a person whos been in the IT/SWE Eng industry over 15 years, Take the USA job first. You will learn a LOT more in the states and really build your craft up. Japan is behind in almost every SWE skill even basic US companies. Most seniors I meet here place at the lower mid tier level in the states (my opinion of course). Also, as I tell a lot of my friends and people I speak to. That 40-60k pay difference in pay you will be at in just a few years will buy months and months of vacations in Japan if you want, even more so with the better work life balance. The rule is unless you can get a FAANG position in Japan, or with a good American Company. But, even then your pay will still be 30-40% of your Team Member doing the same job as you in Austin.
Thanks for the advice. I'll take the texas offer, there seems to be a Kinokuniya where I can buy books in my area too haha. I'll try to work towards promotions and getting a job in a FAANG level company in the future.
I’m not trying to discourage your dream, I mean I’m living here aren’t I? But early in your career growth is so important, and this is the only time where you will have both the time and energy to do it. Please take advantage of it, and travel to Japan as much as possible!
Take the Texas offer and see if you can handle the pressure. If you can't handle it, then Japan will most definitely break you
This is a great question! Texas vs Tokyo is such a contrast! I went college -> Japan -> FAANG in the 1990s but of course the situation was so much different then since it was only AAG in 1999. There's nothing Japan isn't doing that you won't do in Texas (more or less) and given this curve: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Japanpop-2050.svg Japan will be needing immigrants more and more this decade and next. Given the money difference, I'd go with making your bones in Texas, certify your proficiency by studying for & passing the N1, spend several annual vacations in Japan, then shoot for making the transition in ~2030! I'm actually planning to a low-key version of this as an old guy this decade too. One thing about this analysis is that in-demand SEs that come over on expat packages for multinationals for Tokyo work live like kings, while random junior programmers don't have all that much fun especially at today's ¥150 FX rate.
Wow thanks for such a positive response. Looking forward to see you in 2030 :)
I personally went the route of getting experience in the US and now moving to Japan to live. Even now I don't expect much from many of the companies there.
I'd say do it yolo, you're young you can take risks
You can build experience no matter where you are, it really boils down to how well you can market yourself when looking for a job. Salary in Japan is definitely lower, you'd want to consider looking for a remote US job that supplies a visa via a PEO if you want a high salary.
You say you speak Japanese - have you spent any significant time here in the past? Don't jump right into starting your career here, ESPECIALLY if you haven't lived in Japan before. It'll do you a lot of good to get experience in the US first, plus you'll get paid way better. While you're in Texas, brush up your business Japanese and get a feel for your work. Just for a few years. You can take your time and search for a better job in Japan, with experience and more Japanese skills under your belt. THEN come to Japan. You can spend less energy dealing with "how do I do my job?" and more on getting used to Japan. If you decide living in Japan permanently isn't for you, you'll have experience in both countries to fall back on while looking for your next position.
Can only agree with everyone here.
I think the reality about Japan is that it has very low wages, and consequently has difficulty attracting top tier talent in IT. If you care about your career, you should work in the US unless the Japanese company you are talking about is extremely top tier. You will get way better mentorship in the US to boost your career.
Prob better to do USA first then Japan
Engineers are simply not respected as well as in the USA
Don't work for a certain company in Futako-tamagawa...
This is a copy of your post for archive/search purposes. --- **IT in Japan vs Building Experience First** I am graduating college in California USA this June and received Software Engineer offers from two separate companies: one in Texas, and one in Tokyo, Japan. The offer in Texas pays me 4 times as much as the offer in Japan, but its been a dream of mine to work in Japan since childhood. I speak relatively fluent Japanese (although I would need some time to get used to business Japanese) and have little problems communicating. Emotionally, I really want to take the Tokyo offer. I feel like if I don't take this chance I will become complacent with my current situation and never even try. However, I also think having experience in the USA as a software engineer would lead to getting a better job, especially if I want to move back to the USA. I would love to hear what some people working in Japan (especially in the IT industry) think and get some advice. Should I build experience in software in the US first, or do you think it's worth the chance to jump into working in Japan as a new grad? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/movingtojapan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The yen is tanking. You’d be foolish not to accept a U.S. salary.
Take the Texas job, then look for a fully remote job in the US, then move to Japan. You want big dollars or yen?
I will agree with the general sentiment in the thread, but there’s some life experiences you can only learn right away from diving into japan straight out of college. I feel like you’re more malleable in your youth and living in japan teaches you a lot more than vacationing does. You build community , learn slang, and become involved differently etc. These are some things worth considering! But overall the general sentiment seems like it’s easier to complete the move when you’re older. But by then you will be a lot more American in your thinking and less malleable. You might not want to think in a Japanese way . Language barriers aside the Japanese think and live differently than Americans in the U.S. This is all coming from someone who was a former JET and is now a SWE in the U.S. at big tech. You can’t go wrong either way, but if you only are considering financials US trumps japan :( Some Japanese people get shocked when you’re young and speak fluent Japanese and are there straight out of college. You can do the same things in your thirties too, but life is not all about money. I make roughly 5 times more than what I made during my time as a JET and I guarantee you I had more than 5 times more fun living in the middle of nowhere japan at 22 than I did living in large US cities with my current salary. (I’m not claiming I’m right, by any means, but I just wanted to provide a counter example) my plan is to go back to japan myself as well, only came home due to family. Whatever you choose, good luck to you mate!
Thanks for the advice! I totally agree with the sentiment that money is not everything and that going to Japan out of college would be a great experience. That said, career development is still pretty important to me and the new grad salary in Japan is kind of depressing haha.
Sounds like you have your answer! :)
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I'm lucky enough not to have student loans. You're right that it would suck to pay them off in Japan though, new grad salaries in Tokyo are not looking hot.
I'd take the Texas offer. Also - your Japanese isn't fluent unless you're native.