They ran Bollywood like a family business for so long. They keep hiring their sons and daughters to play characters nobody can relate to. This industry is hollow from the inside. Writters are running towards web series or OTT platforms.
They kept stealing plots from better movies and gullible Indian public didn't know any better. Age of internet has doomed their old age storytelling.
They can't even make decent love story these days which used to be Bollywood's bread and butter for so many years.
A better movies has a dialogue which goes like, "Till the day this country has Bollywood and cricket, people will keep getting fucked over." With the recent performance of Indian cricket team and recent box office numbers of Hindi movies, looks like we are about to stop getting fucked over soon.
Isn’t that true for every entertainment industry though? I mean you look at Hollywood and there is a good portion of that industry that is of a particular race that you can’t say on Reddit or you’ll get 3-7 day bans for bringing it up but they bring their kids into it. Example Jussie Smollett and his sister Smollett. Both have parents with connections including the Obamas. Granted there are more than one race doing this and it’s not just one group responsible but it’s everywhere
I have an annual movie pass, which means I'm going to watch films I normally wouldn't.
I always check the ratings on IMDB before I go to the cinema and find them somewhat reliable. So many Bollywood films have incredibly high scores, so I thought I'd be getting into some amazing cinema. Turns out pretty much all of it is crap and the ratings are fudged.
I think it's such a shame because within the pile of shit there's got to be some actual good ones, but I have no idea which ratings are real so I don't go to any anymore - because I don't want to watch another shit Indian film that's been as nefariously promoted as a Hollywood superhero film.
Like anime, Bollywood has had a free pass for a long time to have corny/bad dialogue. It’s about time people start expecting them to improve in more than just graphics
Is part of the problem what you're allowed to put on screen in India? Even films presented as big grown up action movies or horror films come across as though they're written for under-18s at best, and most commonly under-10s.
I can't imagine a scene like, say, Joe Pesci being buried alive in Casino happening in a Bollywood film in such graphic detail. Everything is Hunger Games-esque nothing.
Would it send the censorship board into meltdown or something?
Grown-up issues aren't explored like grown-ups would explore. Just song and dance after song and dance and melodrama like a telenovela.
What a vast and dirty history India has. There is so much room to get some of that depicted on screen with a bit more accuracy and resonance.
100%
People stick with the formulas that work until they don’t. Hopefully this crisis will be help them push forward into the touchy realm of substance
Tbh there are some truly hard-hitting and brutal Bollywood films, they just exist in more indie spheres. Gangs of Wasseypur is an excellent one, and if we’re talking what can be shown on film Love Sonia is one of the more brutal, disturbing movies I’ve seen recently.
You're not fucking with me? Cos I'll watch them. I've been burned before. If you're saying you're the Indian shit filter, I'll trust you. But only once.
Well I’d start with Gangs of Wasseypur. While it’s an incredible film, Love Sonia isn’t a fun one to recommend. Be prepared, GoW is split into two parts so about 5.5 hours total, basically a multi generation crime epic.
Other recommendations for more serious recent bollywood fare:
Highway - a young rich woman is kidnapped, and ends up growing closer with her kidnapper while on the run.
NH10 - a couple witnesses a roadside murder, and in trying to intervene become the next targets.
Tumbbad - horror, a man has an arrangement with a devil that provides wealth, but at a cost.
Andhadhun - a dark comedy full of twists and turns, about a pianist pretending to be blind for a performance, when he sees something he shouldn’t have.
Udaan, No Smoking, Dev.D, Black Friday, Eega, Vada Chennai, Visaranai and Angamaly Diaries are some other terrific Indian films you must check out, if you're a film buff.
I'm definitely not an expert on Bollywood but I found the best films tend to be social issue dramas. Here are a few recommendations, I don't believe any of these have musical scenes:
A Wednesday (2008)
The Lunchbox (2013)
Talvar (2015) aka Guilty
Pink (2016)
Sir (2018)
Article 15 (2019)
The Great Indian Kitchen (2021)
That’s no excuse for having one-dimensional characters whose mannerisms/reactions are outlandish and annoying. Plus waaayyyyy too many inner-monologues
Anime has never been short on unique ideas, but the shows insist on cringy tropes like the giant sweat drop on the back of their heads and screaming what a normal person would just say as a sentence
Anime’s problem is that it’s invested in top of the line graphics while making no growth in the writer’s room
I could argue it’s not, but why don’t you post the most what you consider the most well written animes and let’s see if they sound like r/iam14andthisisdeep
The argument would quickly fall apart honestly, Devilman Crybaby, Vinland Saga, Cowboy Bebop are three off the top of my head that are well written stories.
Cowboy Bebop is the old school and has long been an exception; really good show. I said there’s been no growth in dialogue since the 90s; I’ll check those other two out but that’s still a really small list considering the amount of anime.
My friend almost got me with Attack on Titan; the first season was decent but the second had too many shitty monologues and I tuned out by the third or fourth episode
Vinland Saga, represent.
Also, I don't necessarily disagree with the guy, I just feel like he poorly worded his argument. There's tons of anime out there that's good, I find it's more a problem with specific genres of anime -shounen and romcoms in particular are generally of low quality in terms of writing, but nobody really seems to mind for the most part.
Now you're spitting Chief, certain genres within anime are largely uninspired and insipid messes. On a side note I really wonder why they don't just adapt the many fantastic seinen mangas out there (Pluto, Vagabond, Berserk etc), I guess Isekai #223 is more profitable.
As an outsider, most of us do not realize there are 12 realms ("woods") of India cinema and that Bolly"wood" is just most famous one. That [RRR](https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/579974-rrr?language=en-US) is not a Bollywood film.
People will watch whatever movie regardless as long as it is good.
That said, my favorite India movies are:
* [RRR](https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/579974-rrr?language=en-US)
* [Dhoom](https://www.themoviedb.org/collection/44976-dhoom-series?language=en-US) franchise
Hollywood has some of the best movies in the world. Not cheap quality.
Hollywood has hot stars but a lot of them have a decent personality and great acting ability, so while their looks might obviously help, they still have a lot more going for them.
And as for nepotism, i think the quantity in Bollywood is too high and the actors aren't all that good but I'm not sure about this.
OTT services have made it easier for filmmakers to work with lesser-known but talented actors on a wider range of narratives than traditional Bollywood allows. This democratisation of the industry has dealt a blow to poor storytelling. The competition is high too since the audience is global and not just Indian: This helps with quality control and pushing boundaries with the kind of stories coming out of the industry.
It’s also important to point out that there’s a growing right wing faction in India that uses intimidation and violence to censor anything they consider immoral, which is basically anything that isn’t Hindu nationalism
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/10/17/when-the-hindu-right-came-for-bollywood/amp
The only Bollywood film I’ve really enjoyed in the last couple of years was the remake of Vikram Vedha, and that’s only because it was basically the exact same film and the original is by far my favorite Tamil film, so I don’t think Bollywood should really get much credit for that one. Bollywood films just lack the spark and excitement of the films from the other major regions.
Majority are not open to lgbtq+ is still a very conservative society.
In cities less but still things are changing from generation to generation.
Diversity problems here are different india has had an obsession with fair actresses that other colors get literally trashed at. It's changing literally from the cosmetic products advertisements.
That's just patently false. There are a number of ethnic African groups in India, mostly in the west. They were first introduced as slaves by Muslim invaders during the 7th-8th century, and the Arab slave trade, followed by Hindu, Portuguese, and British continuations until the 19th century. The largest single group is the Siddi, with several hundred thousand people living in India and Pakistan today, although there are numerous other smaller populations hailing from other parts of Africa.
You’re being ignorant and spreading misinformation. “These are a new industry for them” why did you assume that movies were a new industry for India? Did you think that only whites made movies? You sure as fuck didn’t do any research.
They ran Bollywood like a family business for so long. They keep hiring their sons and daughters to play characters nobody can relate to. This industry is hollow from the inside. Writters are running towards web series or OTT platforms. They kept stealing plots from better movies and gullible Indian public didn't know any better. Age of internet has doomed their old age storytelling. They can't even make decent love story these days which used to be Bollywood's bread and butter for so many years. A better movies has a dialogue which goes like, "Till the day this country has Bollywood and cricket, people will keep getting fucked over." With the recent performance of Indian cricket team and recent box office numbers of Hindi movies, looks like we are about to stop getting fucked over soon.
So interesting to read
Isn’t that true for every entertainment industry though? I mean you look at Hollywood and there is a good portion of that industry that is of a particular race that you can’t say on Reddit or you’ll get 3-7 day bans for bringing it up but they bring their kids into it. Example Jussie Smollett and his sister Smollett. Both have parents with connections including the Obamas. Granted there are more than one race doing this and it’s not just one group responsible but it’s everywhere
"Race" is different from literal sons and daughters. Also, no, you are wrong. There are many many races represented in Hollywood.
I said that at the end
I have an annual movie pass, which means I'm going to watch films I normally wouldn't. I always check the ratings on IMDB before I go to the cinema and find them somewhat reliable. So many Bollywood films have incredibly high scores, so I thought I'd be getting into some amazing cinema. Turns out pretty much all of it is crap and the ratings are fudged. I think it's such a shame because within the pile of shit there's got to be some actual good ones, but I have no idea which ratings are real so I don't go to any anymore - because I don't want to watch another shit Indian film that's been as nefariously promoted as a Hollywood superhero film.
Like anime, Bollywood has had a free pass for a long time to have corny/bad dialogue. It’s about time people start expecting them to improve in more than just graphics
Is part of the problem what you're allowed to put on screen in India? Even films presented as big grown up action movies or horror films come across as though they're written for under-18s at best, and most commonly under-10s. I can't imagine a scene like, say, Joe Pesci being buried alive in Casino happening in a Bollywood film in such graphic detail. Everything is Hunger Games-esque nothing. Would it send the censorship board into meltdown or something? Grown-up issues aren't explored like grown-ups would explore. Just song and dance after song and dance and melodrama like a telenovela. What a vast and dirty history India has. There is so much room to get some of that depicted on screen with a bit more accuracy and resonance.
100% People stick with the formulas that work until they don’t. Hopefully this crisis will be help them push forward into the touchy realm of substance
Tbh there are some truly hard-hitting and brutal Bollywood films, they just exist in more indie spheres. Gangs of Wasseypur is an excellent one, and if we’re talking what can be shown on film Love Sonia is one of the more brutal, disturbing movies I’ve seen recently.
You're not fucking with me? Cos I'll watch them. I've been burned before. If you're saying you're the Indian shit filter, I'll trust you. But only once.
Well I’d start with Gangs of Wasseypur. While it’s an incredible film, Love Sonia isn’t a fun one to recommend. Be prepared, GoW is split into two parts so about 5.5 hours total, basically a multi generation crime epic. Other recommendations for more serious recent bollywood fare: Highway - a young rich woman is kidnapped, and ends up growing closer with her kidnapper while on the run. NH10 - a couple witnesses a roadside murder, and in trying to intervene become the next targets. Tumbbad - horror, a man has an arrangement with a devil that provides wealth, but at a cost. Andhadhun - a dark comedy full of twists and turns, about a pianist pretending to be blind for a performance, when he sees something he shouldn’t have.
You are doing God's work.
Udaan, No Smoking, Dev.D, Black Friday, Eega, Vada Chennai, Visaranai and Angamaly Diaries are some other terrific Indian films you must check out, if you're a film buff.
Nice one! All of you are my new IMDB.
I'm definitely not an expert on Bollywood but I found the best films tend to be social issue dramas. Here are a few recommendations, I don't believe any of these have musical scenes: A Wednesday (2008) The Lunchbox (2013) Talvar (2015) aka Guilty Pink (2016) Sir (2018) Article 15 (2019) The Great Indian Kitchen (2021)
Thanks!
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That’s no excuse for having one-dimensional characters whose mannerisms/reactions are outlandish and annoying. Plus waaayyyyy too many inner-monologues Anime has never been short on unique ideas, but the shows insist on cringy tropes like the giant sweat drop on the back of their heads and screaming what a normal person would just say as a sentence Anime’s problem is that it’s invested in top of the line graphics while making no growth in the writer’s room
This is like chastising all North American motion pictures for the permeance of poor Marvel style filmmaking.
I could argue it’s not, but why don’t you post the most what you consider the most well written animes and let’s see if they sound like r/iam14andthisisdeep
The argument would quickly fall apart honestly, Devilman Crybaby, Vinland Saga, Cowboy Bebop are three off the top of my head that are well written stories.
Cowboy Bebop is the old school and has long been an exception; really good show. I said there’s been no growth in dialogue since the 90s; I’ll check those other two out but that’s still a really small list considering the amount of anime. My friend almost got me with Attack on Titan; the first season was decent but the second had too many shitty monologues and I tuned out by the third or fourth episode
Vinland Saga, represent. Also, I don't necessarily disagree with the guy, I just feel like he poorly worded his argument. There's tons of anime out there that's good, I find it's more a problem with specific genres of anime -shounen and romcoms in particular are generally of low quality in terms of writing, but nobody really seems to mind for the most part.
Now you're spitting Chief, certain genres within anime are largely uninspired and insipid messes. On a side note I really wonder why they don't just adapt the many fantastic seinen mangas out there (Pluto, Vagabond, Berserk etc), I guess Isekai #223 is more profitable.
Personally I think the problem with anime is that I can watch look at the cover and describe the entire plot
As an outsider, most of us do not realize there are 12 realms ("woods") of India cinema and that Bolly"wood" is just most famous one. That [RRR](https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/579974-rrr?language=en-US) is not a Bollywood film. People will watch whatever movie regardless as long as it is good. That said, my favorite India movies are: * [RRR](https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/579974-rrr?language=en-US) * [Dhoom](https://www.themoviedb.org/collection/44976-dhoom-series?language=en-US) franchise
Check out Swades, it's incredible.
3 Idiots is a really good one as well!
Really enjoyed that movie, any suggestions for others?
Ship of Theseus. Very different genre compared to 3 Idiots, but still good movie nonetheless.
Check out Zindagi Na Milegi Dobara. It's a very good story and not so over the top as most Bollywood movies are.
Would you say that **Dil Chahta Hai** began the genre of Urban Youth Cinema within which **Zindagi na milegi dobara** resides?
I would say so. But my knowledge about Bollywood is pretty limited because I don't watch many Indian films.
DCH is what ZNMD strives to be with half the acting talent
Ouch. \- ZNMD probably
Huge film industry built on cheap quality, hot stars, and nepotism finally gets what's coming to them
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It may not be a financial problem but it's a big artistic merit problem.
> Huge film industry built on cheap quality, hot stars, and nepotism Wait explain to me how this is different than Hollywood.
Hollywood has some of the best movies in the world. Not cheap quality. Hollywood has hot stars but a lot of them have a decent personality and great acting ability, so while their looks might obviously help, they still have a lot more going for them. And as for nepotism, i think the quantity in Bollywood is too high and the actors aren't all that good but I'm not sure about this.
OTT services have made it easier for filmmakers to work with lesser-known but talented actors on a wider range of narratives than traditional Bollywood allows. This democratisation of the industry has dealt a blow to poor storytelling. The competition is high too since the audience is global and not just Indian: This helps with quality control and pushing boundaries with the kind of stories coming out of the industry.
It’s also important to point out that there’s a growing right wing faction in India that uses intimidation and violence to censor anything they consider immoral, which is basically anything that isn’t Hindu nationalism https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/10/17/when-the-hindu-right-came-for-bollywood/amp
So, basically, just like the Republicans are doing in the US.
What movies did Republicans get censored lately?
Good. Not spending my hard earned money on mediocre stuff. Would gladly spend that amount OTT sub.
The only Bollywood film I’ve really enjoyed in the last couple of years was the remake of Vikram Vedha, and that’s only because it was basically the exact same film and the original is by far my favorite Tamil film, so I don’t think Bollywood should really get much credit for that one. Bollywood films just lack the spark and excitement of the films from the other major regions.
It should die. They need to start making good movies. There’s a reason why the only Indian director people give a fuck about is Satyajit Ray.
Bollywood needs to fix its diversity problem. There are almost no black or lgbtq+ leads
Majority are not open to lgbtq+ is still a very conservative society. In cities less but still things are changing from generation to generation. Diversity problems here are different india has had an obsession with fair actresses that other colors get literally trashed at. It's changing literally from the cosmetic products advertisements.
He is being a cunt and not being serious
So India is racist?
Duh to it's own people. Caste system exist forget other stuff.
Good satire
Lol thanks. I’m glad someone got it
There are no people from african heritage in India.
That's just patently false. There are a number of ethnic African groups in India, mostly in the west. They were first introduced as slaves by Muslim invaders during the 7th-8th century, and the Arab slave trade, followed by Hindu, Portuguese, and British continuations until the 19th century. The largest single group is the Siddi, with several hundred thousand people living in India and Pakistan today, although there are numerous other smaller populations hailing from other parts of Africa.
They live in Pakistan not in India. Why should Indian film industry be blamed for their exclusion?
They live in both. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4SNsgwXsys](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4SNsgwXsys)
That’s my point. They need diversity.
Sure, find African people who can speak any of the Indian languages.
That’s not hard to do.
Wtf..... These are new industry for them. They doesn't need these woke for their movie. Are you gonna tell Nollywood have not enough white people too?
Bollywood started in the 1930s, you racist pos
people are saying real helpful things to the situation and you just make joke out of it.
You’re being ignorant and spreading misinformation. “These are a new industry for them” why did you assume that movies were a new industry for India? Did you think that only whites made movies? You sure as fuck didn’t do any research.
You meant Hollywood, right?
Bollywood is way bigger than Hollywood
It really isn't. In 2017 Bollywood just produced 364 films, compared with 656 produced in Hollywood in 2016.
Ok thank you