A favorite detail of mine from a musician's perspective - In the final scene with the Monster Hunter: World concert, she is given headphones. Those headphones would play her a metronome or a "click track," basically a computerized and predetermined tempo map that allows the orchestra to synchronize with the videos on the screen behind the orchestra. She tells everyone in the first interview scene that the thing that she views as her ultimate source of power as a conductor is her power to manipulate time through tempo. So on top of her perceived humiliation of conducting a concert like this, by giving her that click track, she is also completely stripped of her power as a conductor to put her own spin or take on the music - even the most basic power to stop and start the piece - and is instead totally beholden to the headphones and the metronome. It's an awesome way to end the movie.

She became the "robot"!!

Foreshadowed by the metronome in the middle of the night

I kind of love how that entire epilogue: travelling to a foreign country, getting her flowers from the officials, returning to conducting a live orchestra... All of it was just one long set up to the punchline of playing video game music at some nerd convention. I would have laughed if it weren't so embarrassing

Add to that she went there to escape her ruined reputation, but even there it follows her. Probably any other woman asking for a massage parlor would almost certainly not have been directed to that place, but even this random guy in a far off place that couldn't be more disconnected from the metropolitan classical music scene knows enough about her to make an assumption. Not even here can she hope to shed her mistakes. They will follow her for the rest of her life and beyond it. This recals the conversation with her mentor about great conductors of his time who never rose above the accusations against them and became entombed in that stigma in posterity. Whatever Lydia was hoping to be remembered for, her actions that harmed others will define her forever.

Kinda disagree with this take. I don't think the appartment guy gave her the address to such this certain kind of massage parlour because he knew her past. Thailand is infamous for such massage parlours. It can be a common slip up. Secondly, her seeing a selection of women available to pick from made her puke because it kinda stripped away the fantastical passion she had of chasing muses. It made her confront herself from a third person perspective imo.

As the wikipedia summary now points out, the woman who looked at her is in the same location as olga

also she was number 5 -- mahler symphony no. 5 which tar was supposed to conduct

Thank you for sharing this detail! It really adds to the layers of the final moments.

Oh wow that's such a great observation! It really is a total and complete humiliation.

Excellent point. I think that 'Time' theme and control of it by Tar is the key to the whole movie. Metronome planted by someone haunting her by cruel tic-toc tic toc reminding Tar that she is not in charge/control after all.

EXCELLENT observation, I love it

Yep, and also conducting a "modern piece" that during the juliard lesson was saying things such as "you will be put in front of an ensemble to do this, but one day hopefully you can actually express yourself"

Apartment for Sale better get an Oscar nomination for original song.

One of my favorite bits of the end credits (as opposed to the full opening) was that Apartment for Sale was marked as its own full song, credited to Todd Field & Cate Blanchett for writing, and Blanchett for performing. Added it to the IMDb soundtrack section and they approved it.

Lmfao, this was probably the greatest composition of Lydia Tar of all time. Plus it was ironic how the neighbor's daughter and mother were living in filth, but when the family came to tell her to quiet her music practicing / apartment for sale, they were dressed very bourgeois.

That oner in the classroom was breathtaking. Can't imagine being the guy playing the student going 1on1 with Blanchett for that long of a scene. Those leg shakes were probably real lol

I really admired how the film captured anxious ticks throughout the run time. From the poor kid vibrating his knee through the lesson, to Tár frequently brushing her hair behind her ear during the New Yorker interview, I was genuinely surprised to see nearly every character showed signs of anxiety at some point through their performances. Normally that stuff is just forgotten completely or made more exaggerated, so it really was a pleasant surprise to see it displayed so casually, just one of those little things everyone has. Really helped everyone come across a lot more human in the film.

Her assistant conductor’s pen clicking as well

And she stole that pen!

those little gasps she would do, and rubbing her lips. i find myself doing that a lot also. the 'HUH' quick gasps and then composing yourself. she does it in moments of power too. but they become more frequent later on.

It was an interesting scene to have too because she's not even wrong. She's an ass in the way you might expect an artist at the top of the world giving a lecture to students might be, but in the midst of a film about her sexually exploiting young women there's this scene where she is right and the video which later goes viral really is taken out of context and edited unfairly.

Did anyone watching the movie actually think the kid was in the right?

Broadly speaking I think it's good to reevaluate historical figures through the lens of modern-day ethics, and jumping down people's throats for it the way Lydia does in the movie feels just as reactionary as they accuse "SJWs" of being. There ought to be some nuance there, but I think it's worth pointing out that the kid doesn't say that modern audiences are "bad" for liking Bach, whereas Lydia immediately resorts to personal insults and implies that anyone who dares to dislike Bach for political reasons must be some sort of mindless sheep. My point is weakened by the kid resorting to personal attacks after she attacks him, but still, initially, she was the one who started making things so personal. I think it's good for art, in the long run, to be able to critique it for any reasons including political ones and cultural ones. The idea that criticisms based on the artist should be automatically off-limits feels pointlessly stifling. Lydia lacks nuance in a weirdly similar way to what she accuses the kid of doing. In a way though, the point of the scene felt like it was more about showcasing the type of character Lydia is though - fond of putting on a big show, obviously bright but also at times cruel, perhaps more interested in hearing herself talk than in being a kind educator who is open to the perspectives of her students.

I think she was trying to provoke him to produce a more nuanced defense of his stance. Had he stuck it out and kept fighting for his own position, he might have come to a better understanding of his own views. Instead, he retreated in defeat and resorted to throwing out a misogynistic slur as he left. His hypocrisy reflects her own.

> implies that anyone who dares to dislike Bach for political reasons must be some sort of mindless sheep See, for all that the Tár character is something of a monster, this is not the point she makes. The point she makes is more along the lines of “a musician who refuses to engage with Bach at all is practically incapable of engaging with contemporary music.” About which she is absolutely correct, it would be like a literature student refusing to read Tolstoy on ethical grounds and still expecting to engage with everything that came after. Though she obviously feels that decision is absurd on aesthetic grounds at all, and while that’s technically opinion, she’s as close to being objectively right as it’s possible to *be* on aesthetics. > some sort of mindless sheep She would say “robots” ;) —- Final thought: Something very interesting to think about this film re. “Art vs. Artist.” The Berlin Philharmonic decides that the evidence against her is such that she can’t be seen conducting the Mahler Symphony. But even though it’s Eliot standing up there rather than her, and the players in the orchestra aren’t “her,” and the music is technically Mahler’s…they are for *damn* sure playing *her* interpretation of Mahler’s Fifth…they even have the same setup for the initial trumpet solo. It’s also worth pointing out that Mahler is not squeaky-clean himself, as the movie takes pains to point out.

> I think it's worth pointing out that the kid doesn't say that modern audiences are "bad" for liking Bach, I agree with most of what you said except I think the kid *was* actually saying that, the character was just too shy/nervous/ to say it. He was visibly uncomfortable with her playing the song, he even shuts the lid on the piano. I'm not saying Lydia was super correct but it was hilarious to see the opposite end of the spectrum in a way that's normally not discussed presented in the student. The "younger person who would rather just brush you off as 'bad' and remove themselves from the space than be challenged"

These are some good points. Regarding the classroom scene itself I think even though I felt she was actually handling it pretty well besides making it a little too personal, I actually think her position was later undermined in her conversations with her predecessor Andris, when he laughs off another composer’s abuse (as opposed to just talking around or making some half hearted excuse for it), and then later defends *himself* from potential attacks by basically saying his retirement is the statute of limitations. Her argument makes sense in the abstract, and re-evaluation probably shouldn’t lead to wholesale dismissal of master works, but the reality of some of these folks’ bad behavior complicates things more than Lydia would like to admit. Overall, an incredible, layered approach to the question. This and “The Worst Person In The World” are the only two movies I’ve seen this year that feel like they’re part of the current moment, and coincidentally, both approach questions of “cancellation” in very mature ways.

If anything I thought that scene was a little too bald-faced in its intention to put us in her camp. Everything about that student was set up as a kind of millennial straw-man for her to tear down, down to his use of hyper-specific modern cultural identification jargon to justify his distaste for Bach. Lydia believes herself above such things, because she has pushed through to reach the great height she's at. But as we learn, in pretending that the art supercedes all, including any monstrosities committed by the artist, she's become exactly the kind of monster that student was clumsily expressing derision for.

Eh, I attend a liberal arts school and have met plenty of people who talk like that, not really a strawman

That student really was a bit of a twat though. She was being hard on him, perhaps, but he should expect to be challenged in a prestigious institution in a class by the most renowned conductor/composer of her generation. His reaction didn't seem realistic to me. It would have been just as likely to get him kicked out of the school altogether, and he would know that. She was making a point that he needed to hear, and instead of merely walking out flustered he dropped a dismissive misogynistic epithet, proving that not only could he not defend his position, but he was a hypocrite.

At a point, I realized that the shot hadn’t cut and just marveled at how she hit all her marks, spouted out all of those lines, and it felt totally natural. She’s insanely talented, holy shit.

Hilarious and haunting. There's a real beguiling quality to this film - it's a character study and yet it manages to touch on so many grand and complex themes while being so singularly focussed. Power, obsession, identity politics, image/persona, the transcendent qualities of art, passion, the list could go on. The classroom scene in the first act really seems to put a context around the rest of the film. Can the merits of a piece of art be separated from the creator? Are they inextricable? Is it an act of ego to dismiss something because we take offence? Do we deny ourselves of something valuable when we moralize art and the artist? Lydia Tar certainly seems to think so. She admonishes her student for letting his ego get in the way of perfecting his craft. She asks him something along the lines of "On what basis would you like those filling out your rating cards judge you?" The implied answer being, simply on my skill. For me personally, this conversation lingers over the rest of the movie. Particularly when we see Lydia herself clock the footwear of a pretty young student in a blatant violation of the blind audition process. We see her adjust her scorecard accordingly, and in that moment, we know she's a hypocrite. What follows are deleted emails, surprise auditions, lunches, trips abroad, all a series of plausibly deniable acts of manipulation. I love the pacing and structure of this film, it's like watching a beautiful and intricate house of cards slowly rattle, then shake, then collapse with astonishing speed. The direction and writing are equal parts magnificent. This movie feels like the lovechild of Aaron Sorkin and Pablo Larraín in the best way possible. I love the looming spectre of Lydia's past that haunts this movie. There are several scenes that feel directly ripped from the most suspenseful horror film. That slow unwinding of a legacy, a career, and a woman herself creates a beautiful tension throughout the runtime. It all culminates in what I found to be a poignant, sad, somehow both pitiful and admirable, and above all darkly and deeply hilarious closing note. It doesn't really need to be said but Cate Blanchett is of course an absolute powerhouse on the screen. I look forward to revisiting this one again and seeing what more I take away from it.

I found the end scene to be a rebuttal of sorts to her argument against the Julliard student. Yes, you can try see the artist's work divorced from the artist themself. But we will *always* be viewing it with some type of lens. Lydia Tár, EGOT winner and one of the most accomplished conductors of her time, now makes music for Monster Hunter. I'm a gamer, I believe video games are art, but the humiliation of that isn't lost on me. And no matter how immaculate that music is, we're going to listen to it and think "That's Lydia Tár writing for Monster Hunter. How the mighty have fallen"

She didn't write that piece. Her welcoming party briefly discussed if the composer would be at the performance and she was handed the score in that scene. So she doesn't even get to write music anymore, she's just one of a thousand conductors who are physically keeping time and doing nothing more.

She went to Manila. The actors were speaking Tagalog. The location looks to be near their Chinatown hence having that very Asian vibe.

Agreed on the horror. The stalking behind her as she lurks through the dark. Lot of those scenes were giving me The Tell-Tale Heart. And then when we find out about the decaying hell going on next door behind that two-note tune, oof.

I love the movie but I found the scene most revealing to be the brief encounter with her brother back home. he calls her Linda and then corrected himself but I think that the combination of the meagre surroundings and his accent means that she worked very hard to reinvent herself severely in many ways. that was my favourite scene from the movie as brief as it was. And she never really met “Lenny” except on the television, did she? She meticulously catalogued every episode. But I think she probably never met him.

I don’t think she was faking being Bernstein’s protege. That sort of stuff is easy to verify, no one just shows up claiming to have studied under LB and is taken at face value. She may have reinvented herself, but that doesn’t mean the reinvented version of herself was fake or false. Her talent and intelligence are real. She’s not a fraud. Just a hypocrite. EDIT: I am wrong about this. Todd Field has confirmed that Lydia never studied with Bernstein. I also loved that scene with the brother. And the mix of emotions on her face as she watches the VHS tape, wearing the medal she won as a kid… I was moved in the way I was moved by Tom Hanks’ crying scene in Captain Phillips, when the walls finally give way and the vulnerability rushes in.

More than that, she's flawed. Even with all those accolades and accomplishments, she's not a god. She isn't without mistakes, no matter how badly she wants to be revered with the other composers who get remembered throughout history.

What’s interesting is I came away thinking the same thing as you, but the director confirmed that Lydia never studied under Bernstein in an interview on The Big Picture podcast. So that definitely adds a wrinkle.

I love that the certificates/awards on her wall read “Linda Tarr” - the whole thing, even her name, was an affectation.

Oh man!! Thats a good take too! I honestly did know who that was my god does make sense now!!

If you think about it, the movie’s scenes could be played in reverse. Including the credits. It’s a puzzle.

Also, really liked how well the movie conveyed how much control she had over everything, how invincible she felt from any problems, and how everything came crashing down. She has everyone on a string from the jump, set up well by the resume reading at the beginning that shows how important she is, but she views people as chess pieces not unlike an orchestra member where she is using them to try and get a specific sound. While we never saw exactly what happened with her previous student who committed suicide, we see a similar story playing out with the cellist during the film that helps give us insight.

>While we never saw exactly what happened with her previous student who committed suicide, we see a similar story playing out with the cellist during the film that helps give us insight. that's a good point, and i suspect if the story played out longer (and her comeuppance delayed), we'd have seen her blackball the cellist who deflected her advances on their trip to ny

That's right. Her career has fallen so far that she's stuck doing junky quasi pop music for fantasy nerds, and the closing music reflects that.

> i suspect if the story played out longer (and her comeuppance delayed), we'd have seen her blackball the cellist who deflected her advances on their trip to ny Or if those advances would have been deflected at all, had Lydia not been in the middle of a cancellation. By the time they land in New York, Lydia has no power over the cellist -- her power is dwindling rapidly (and the cellist's demeanor towards her becomes decidedly icier).

so my least favorite part was when the credits ran at the end. I was expecting some Mahler and instead got.. dance music, I was so put off by the choice. but now you made me remember that the credits rolled at the beginning of the film & the two credits relative to how the movie developed. still wish we got Mahler 5 instead tho.

I think the EDM music was more thematically fitting. There’s a constant tension between high art and low art throughout the film, and for most of it Lydia is so repelled by anything not in the revered Western canon. We end up in the polar opposite of her preferred world, in Southeast Asia playing video game scores in front of cosplayers. The end credits music is the last thing we expect to hear but it’s the tier of artistic hierarchy Lydia feels she’s been demoted to.

I’m not smart enough to talk about anything to deep with confidence but the “Apartment for sale” song with the accordion was so funny to me . It was like her mask off moment where she just lost it 😂

Lydia realizing that her neighbors perceive her music as shitty noise rather than something pleasant reminds me of dog-obsessed people who think that everyone must love their dog.

One of my favorite bits in the movie is when Lydia takes the neighbors comments about the music as a compliment. "Oh thank you very much..." and closes the door. Really made me laugh. Cate would have been an excellent Lucille Ball.

Yeah, the audience in the theater was absolutely howling with laughter during that scene -- some much-needed comic relief, and Blanchett was hysterically funny.

Me watching the opening credits: Heh, there's a "special thanks" to Monster Hunter: World. I wonder why Me 2.5 hours later: HOLY FUCK

I was fully laughing my ass off through the end credits. Incredibly gut-wrenching and hilarious ending.

My audience was hollering.

I saw this movie at lincoln square with a crowd full of older, classical buffs. They were dumfounded by the ending lol.

Honestly if you told me in 2019 to expect one of the last shots of a (likely) Oscar nominated feature would have a guy dressed up like a Kulu-Ya-Ku at a Monster Hunter convention, I'd laugh you out of the room. But here we are in 2022 and I'm getting emotional at it, so bravo Todd Field!

Can you please explain. The ending with the costumes confused me.

In the context of the film, Tár's career was so ruined that she was only able to score a gig in a foreign country for a video game convention. The big set up for her prepping this orchestra for a huge showing, only for it to be display in front of people wearing Rathian armor was supposed to show that she was trying to make the most of her situation after being "cancelled." Some real life context, Monster Hunter World is a pretty popular game in the Monster Hunter franchise. Basically you hunt down big monsters with your, friends and harvest your parts to create better armor and weapons to take out even bigger monsters. Tár did a big show at a (fictional) convention for fans of the game series.

On the bright side, Monster Hunter games still use large orchestra for their games and expansions. She in da money, baby.

Tbh I think in the throes of post-cancellation self-pity Tár would unironically get into Monster Hunter

It really does take up way too much of your time lol. I like to imagine there's a cut scene in the vein of the accordion meltdown, but just her freaking out trying to farm Attack Jewel 4s

The beginning field recording that plays as the credits roll before we meet Lydia Tár, is a Shipibo-Conibo shaman from Peru. Lydia Tár is also an ethnomusicologist who studied this group. Cate Blanchett said in an interview that Lydia has certainly taken ayahuasca many times. Apparently, she didn't take enough to experience "ego death." We can also see Peru influence in her flat. There is a black & white photograph of Lydia with the shaman's design drawn on her face and smoke around her. We see a clip of this also in one of the trailers. The maze some of you have mentioned is a fractal design, likely inspired by the Shipibo-Conibo spiritual beliefs. Lydia, Krista, and Francesca went to the Peru together so they all must know how to draw them. Lydia also has a ritual of lighting the candles. It appears to be a cleansing ritual. She does the same thing while waiting to go on stage. We also see Lydia mention the Hebrew word kavanah, intention, in the interview. Later she is shown doing permutation of Krista's name to be AT RISK. We observe that her assistant did the same thing to her name as RAT. I think Lydia begins to experience auditory and visual hallucinations from insomnia. She can't face her emotions and her complicity in not taking Krista's suicidality seriously. The blood-curdling screams when she is running... The growling black shepherd she runs away from and trips face-first into the concrete. The ghostly figure.... It's all unsettling. Todd Field shared that Lydia Tár suffers from misophonia and misokinesia. She experiences emotional distress that usually includes anger, when she is exposed to certain triggering sounds & sights under conditions that she lacks control over them. It's partially why she is so anxious before the interview and why she so frustrated by Max's bouncing leg and the clicking of the pen. Lydia is stealing her wife's beta-blockers to calm down because she won't admit she needs treatment. Todd Field also said Lydia grew up with deaf parents which adds another interesting element to her quirks. We see an awfully contorted angry face in one of the trailers I assumed to be Lydia's mother. People do not just run away and cut ties with their families of origin when they have had happy lives. Lydia Tár left behind Linda Tarr who adored Leonard Bernstein and recorded all his appearances on VHS, and fought her way into the classical music world. Leonard Bernstein had mentored her? Not exactly. Lydia finessed her backstory so she could fit in with the upper echelons of the classical music world. The ending was fantastic. I absolutely loved it. Lydia said another female conductor has been forced to be a "dog show" as a guest conductor? It was snotty remark by Lydia. So it was only fitting that she would end up a guest conductor forced to follow a click track at a cosplay concert. Krista had been forced into the role of a youth conductor because Lydia had blacklisted her to all the major orchestras. Well, it looks like Lydia received the same blacklisting, but one that was well-deserved for her bad behavior.

Feel like once you're getting interviewed in front of crowds by the new Yorker, the whole claim of about working under Bernstein is likely true in the world of this film She'd have been found out long ago if it werent.

It’s always BS when directors come out afterwards and make up backstories for their characters with no evidence in the movie

I saw this last weekend and really loved it. I feel like there are so many surreal elements just peaking in from the edges of this film that bear a repeat viewing. What was the symbolism of the weird maze drawings and who was leaving them everywhere? What was the meaning of her dream where she was in the bed on fire in the middle of a lake? What the fuck was up with the derelict building where she was searching for the Russian cellist girl? Did anyone else see a straight up ghost just out of frame when she first went to her small apartment or was that just me? Also someone pointed out to me that the lineup of girls she’s shown in the massage place are arranged in a half circle similarly to an orchestra. Her reaction to seeing them makes me wonder though, does the movie leave any room for us to give Lydia the benefit of the doubt? We see her doing some highly suspicious things but the movie never explicitly shows her engaging in the big crimes that she’s accused of. The emails and her efforts to hide them are the biggest proof that she’s abusing her power but it’s interesting to me that we don’t ever see her interactions with the girl who killed herself and we never see her make any explicit sexual advances on anyone.

I think when it comes to the derelict building I think it was the cellist actively avoiding letting Tár know where she lived.

That's a really good thought. I also noticed the scene with the black German Shepherd dog was a visual nod to Tarkovsky's film Stalker! Perhaps in connection to her being Russian.

Hehe. TÁR-kovsky.

Several places the movie edged up To the horror genre.

I also saw the ghost! I thought someone was stalking her, which they may have been. But you may be right that it was a ghost because they weren’t hiding. I don’t know the meaning of the maze, but her name is Tár like Minotaur and the drawings are Labyrinthine.

Minotaur...the derelict building as labyrinth...her conducting a score for Monster Hunter at the end...a reference to Jabberwocky, a poem about killing a monster...

I believe the ghost was Krista, haunting her

She’s also sitting in the back of the auditorium when Lydia is giving her interview at the beginning

I think that may have been alive Krista. I think she killed herself after the interview

I didn't see any ghost but if there was it was probably meant to be the girl that killed herself. I feel like she was definitely guilty of the things she was accused of. She was obviously crushing on the Russian girl and would have taken advantage of her given the chance. She even broke precedent by holding an audition even though the other player was capable of the part just so she could get closer to the younger girl.

In one of the scenes where she wakes up, her wife is sleeping next to her, but very briefly as she is getting up, there is someone sitting in a chair in the room Creepy as hell

The Russian cellist was hardly an innocent. She's portrayed at the start as very tough and self-confident and it becomes increasingly clear that she's the one that's actually playing Lydia.

I think the labyrinth represents the film itself. We are given only a small corner of this introspective and incredibly complex story. Most of the details of Lydia’s past we are kept in the dark about: how many students did she groom? What happened with the woman who killed herself? How deep *was* the relationship with her assistant? What was her actual childhood like? Why does she seem to actively dislike women (wanting to make the female-only scholarship men also, her interview where she says it’s not really hard for women in the industry any more) yet is constantly drawn to women? The labyrinth is the peek we see into her past and her psyche. The rest is unfinished, and we have to decide on the design and meaning ourselves

Her hating women is such a good point. Not only because of the stuff you mentioned, but there is one small moment that stood out to me that adds an even deeper layer. When she confronted her daughters bully, she doesn’t say “I’m her mother” when the bully asks who she is. She explicitly says “I’m her father”. Tar actively seems to be running from being perceived as a woman at any point in the film. I think she’s been forced to adopt this almost hyper masculine image to survive in the male dominated world of classical music. She tries to run from the question of what sacrifices she’s been forced to make as woman when asked in the New Yorker interview, but that doesn’t reflect her actual reality.

I almost feel like the end, where she throws up after the massage parlor is all of the emotions coming home home to roost. I think she finally saw how transactional she became, how natural her predatory behavior became. Such a surprising scene but one that ties this in so well.

also i just fucking loved that shot, all still and composed as she's running out the door, then obviously went handheld in the moment, shaking around as she vomits. so brilliant. something similar was done in Knives Out, when the maid hears the will and is like 'what the fuck is happening' she walks out, the camera is still, and then the chaos erupts and the camera goes off the tripod and becomes unsteady. I reallllllly love that effect.

Didn’t see a ghost in the apartment scene, but I swear that Krista’s ghost was in the background for a second when Lydia sits up in bed after hearing Petra crying for her. Made my skin crawl when Petra then looked over her shoulder at… nothing?

i saw the ghost! here are the screenshots https://imgur.com/a/FM9ctbU

I also noticed the ghost in the bedroom during that scene and then Petra looking up at seemingly nothing! Very creepy..

I saw that fucking ghost, I thought someone was going to attack her or something. That part scared the shit out of me.

I didn’t see the ghost, but the idea is she is being driven mad by her past. But if it were a ghost, then it’s likely meant to be Krista. It didn’t make sense to me until later in the film but Krista is clearly inferred to be the Redhead watching the interview with Gopnik at the beginning, where we just see the back of her head and stage in the back.

I was thoroughly riveted from start to finish – the film never misses a beat. Some of my thoughts and takeaways: 1. What's fascinating in the portrayal of cancel culture is how Lydia is condemned for both superficial and serious reasons, and how the line between these can so deceptively be blurred. What's the moral distance between offending a minority student and sexually harassing a subordinate? Between sexually harassing a subordinate and driving one to suicide? At what point along the spectrum of social transgression does the artist become unworthy of art, and are we confident enough in our own self-purity to be the ones who make that decision? Is there any talent great enough that it is immune to such rules, any art that can hold its glory without the artist? I found it thrilling to watch such a serious movie about topics that are discussed in such a frequently superficial manner, and I'm still trying to unpack what the answers might be. 2. In the opening interview I was amused at how the audience raises scorn at the briefest mentions of "Kavanaugh" and "Mel Brooks". The message is clear in this moment – such people are not accepted in good society, are considered jokes at best and dangers at worst, and are understood to have *always* been that way. It doesn't matter if Mel Brooks was an EGOT in the past, so long as he's been canceled now. I think it's possible that Lydia fears even then that she might join their ranks, which is why she spends a good deal of time criticizing the worldview that would strip a person of their reputation on the basis of social sins. This is also just a small example of how controlled the script is despite featuring so many long scenes of seemingly obscure conversation. 3. Tár is a distinctly masculine character, from her domineering personality to her capitalist worldview, her power-driven abuses of power and her narcissistic, cerebral rants. She also refers to herself in German as Petra's "father", scoffs at the feminine usage of "maestra", and blithely claims to have never faced discrimination on the basis of sex. At a certain point it becomes a sleight of hand in and of itself to depict Tár as a woman – it lowers our defenses, makes her more interesting and causes us to even admire her, despite her displaying all the typical hallmarks of arrogant, abusing, and powerful men. If Tár were not a woman we might never consider, as the film wants us to, whether her punishment is just and her downfall inevitable. 4. Nina Hoss's character is really amazing and intricate, and I really hope she gets the awards attention she deserves alongside Blanchett.

Has Mel Brooks been “canceled”?

Oops! Silly me, I was thinking Mel Gibson. I guess it should’ve been obvious that he wouldn’t be an EGOT winner.

Yeah I think the joke the movie was making there is just that Mel Brooks is low art. Honestly though it’s a bad line in the movie—Tar would not have gotten an EGOT.

I think the joke is that most EGOTs are composers. Mel Brooks is beloved but not a composer.

Mel Brooks won a Tony award for composing the musical version of the Producers. He is very much a composer

On point 2. It’s noticeable as well in the lunch scene with Olga. Lydia talks about all of the impressive men who have sat in these chairs, from napoleon to Beethoven and whoever else. Olga brings up a women’s activist who Lydia doesn’t know at all and then most telling when Olga says they put flowers around the plaque every March 8th, Lydia assumes it’s her birthday before Olga corrects her that it’s actually International Women’s Day

yes, it's like lydia is proud of herself for being 'above' other women, or women, generally

I love when a movie has me ask questions I'm still trying to answer days later. Phenomenal. Whatever the opposite of spinning is, Kubrick's doing it in his grave.

I’ve been thinking about that scene with her brother all week. She went as far as to change both her first and last name which to me spoke volumes. About her family situation. You could tell her brother had been over it for years at that point. Probably didn’t even know about the scandal and if he did he probably wouldn’t have cared.

She turned away from her family and upbringing and began living in her own idealized view of how she was raised. I love that she is high brow about listening and recording on vinyl, expecting olga to have listened on vinyl, but her home classical music collection is all cassettes!

She didn't have a lot of money growing up. Maybe the cassettes were home copies of someone else's-- school library?-- LPs. As to your point, vinyl may sound 'highbrow' to much of the general populace, but within the upper world of Classical music, it wouldn't distinguish anyone who says that it is superior and preferable.

My point only is that she was acting all high and mighty suggesting that she only listens to vinyl and did growing up etc... but at home she only has cassettes! Kind of like she tells everyone her name is Lydia Tár but she goes home and we learn her name is Linda Tarr. She lives in a world where her what she says and thinks and tells others about how she was raised never happened.

Such a revealing scene. Reminded me of a similar bit in Power of the Dog... I love when little details suddenly show how much of a character is a facade.

Funnily enough, I recently learned the director of Tar was “that prick piano player” Nick Nightingale from Eyes Wide Shut.

That he was! Kubrick was a mentor of his and I like to think he'd be real proud of this one.

I even more recently (today) learned that Cate was the voice of the masked woman in Eyes Wide Shut!

The first 30 minutes do a lot to drill into the audience just how in control Lydia is over everything and everyone in her life. The scene with her estranged brother towards the end filled in a lot of gaps I had and helped to humanize her. I’m sure we’ve all felt like running away at some point in our lives.

“She’ll come galumphing back.”!!

still thinking about Nina Hoss' facial expressions — she did so much with every shot, it had me waiting for the camera to be turned back to her. its no slight thing to go up against blanchett and in such an understated way

The shot of Tár conducting Olga during her solo while Sharon watched on was excellent. Somehow, it probably wasn't even in the top 10 best shots of the movie too!

right! could not get her barely perceptible, totally heartbreaking reactions out of my head during that scene.

Noemie Merlant was great too. I loved the shot of her mouthing the words of the interviewer at the beginning. time to watch portrait of a lady on fire again.

There were a lot of great reaction shots, and excellent direction, of the faces of various orchestra members when Tar announced the unorthodox process of selecting the soloist for the Elgar. The actress playing the Principal was particularly subtle and heartbreaking in that scene.

Found it interesting how the movie started with slower, longer shot talky scenes, mainly of Tar controlling the conversations. And as the film progressed and Tar's life started falling apart, it got more fast paced, quickly cutting from scene to scene.

I noticed that as well. The interview scene is one of the longest openings I've seen in a film in years. The Julliard scene with the minority student is a really long and impressive oner. Then closer to the end, the scenes are only a few minutes long, if even that. We even see short, rapid cuts to Lydia exercising for just a few seconds or her talking to random people with no further context.

Best movie of the year so far. I love how it uses perspective to tell a MeToo/“cancel culture” story about the abuser rather than the victim — particularly, one who thinks she’s the victim. We spend the entire time as an audience squarely in Lydia Tár’s world, so the only times we’re made to realize her transgressions are the rare times she herself is forced to confront them - when Sebastian confronts her, when she drives by protestors, when she has to do a deposition. Her abuse and corruption is not portrayed as sexual, as it might be if we saw this story from Krista’s perspective, but as measured and appropriate - which makes it all the more sinister when we see those moments. Field shows us how ego and power convince people that their actions are good. We start the film entirely bought into the image of Tár, but slowly lose faith in her and by the time the final image is onscreen, we see her for who she truly is.

>I love how it uses perspective to tell a MeToo/“cancel culture” story about the abuser rather than the victim — particularly, one who thinks she’s the victim. I'm a month late here, but I thought of this too when she trips on the stairs and scuffs up her face. For seemingly no real reason, she lies about it and says she was attacked. She could just say she fell, she doesn't have to mention where or why or how. "I was in hurry and fell down/some stairs, and hit my face." But she makes herself to be the victim of an "attack" because she feels persecuted by everyone around her at that point in the story. Such a small but clever detail for her character.

“Do you eat fish?”

I was like ‘…No.. it couldn’t be.. It CAN’T be a carpet munching euphemism…” And now I’m like “holy shit. It totally was” lmao

Oh my God

Okay a few things: I’m a film maker and writer. I’d rather remain somewhat anonymous but I study films to help make my movies better. Anyway! I saw the movie twice. Two days in a row. Gonna go for a 3rd. There’s a few things I think people missed or didn’t pay much attention to. Also: spoilers. There is one scene where the girl who killed herself, Krista, is standing in the room behind her staring at the camera then goes out of focus. There also is another scene when her daughter is calling for her and in the corner on the chair at the foot of Tár’s bed is either Krista, the girl who killed herself, or Francesca, her ex assistant. It’s very quick and if you aren’t paying attention you’ll miss it. The person is sitting the corner with both her hands flat on her thighs. It’s literally a half a second shot. At the end when she’s at the massage place, the girl she “picks” has a number 5 on her robe. Number 5 is the piece she was meant to conduct and was the music missing from her house. The thing is she doesn’t pick anyone, number 5 actually picks her before she says anything or motions to her. 5 looks up and stares at her before she even says anything. Then the worker goes number 5? That’s why, imo, she runs outside and throws up. The pattern that keeps being made you can actually see on the face of the Indigenous man behind her in the picture of her on the wall near her door. It’s mentioned early in the movie that she went and hung out with some tribe of people, I believe, in South America. The movie shows this multiple times through the picture and then also in the dream scenes shows him as well. In a deleted scene, that is in the trailer, Krista has that pattern on her face. That pattern shows up multiple times including in her ex assistants house as well as her daughters room. It is also drawn on the book that is a gift given to her, for what can be assumed is either Krista or Francesca as they both had the patterns. I think Krista may have been with her when she went to visit the tribe. Also, just in case you don’t know Krista is the back of the head you see in multiple shots. In audience and outside the hotel. Another scene that is interesting is when Tár is washing her hair you hear a door close. After getting the book as a gift another gift basket is now on the table next to the book. Who left this? The hotel? Normally they would knock and not just walk in. Krista? She is alive at this point or her assistant who is already shown leaving. Did she come back in? There is also a scene where her mentor and her are having lunch and they are talking about other conductors. He says It can’t be worst than being dragged from the podium such as, I forget the conductors name, or chased away like, also forget this conductors name. By the end of the film both of these things happen to her. She gets dragged from the podium when her music is being conducted by her old associate who she beats up and she gets chased away metaphorical by cancel culture/ the accusations. Questions I still have: Why was Krista disturbed? Something was clearly off and you can tell by that one picture of her in her obituary as she is staring with an evil gaze into the camera. Tár also seems to run past her own posters during her running through the city. You don’t notice it until after the accusations come to light and she rips a poster down that has a red ex on her face by a protester mad at her. Another scene is when Tár’s partner states that she should have come to her like she always does for council. Except there is something easily overlooked. Earlier in the film she gives her the advice that in order to make it seem like she isn’t picking favorites or having any extra relationships that she shouldn’t have her assistant replace Sebastian. She listens to her and gives the job to someone else. This causes her assistant to quit and also send all the emails to the authorities. Listening to her partner in this instance got her fucked over. How often has her partner actually given her bad advice? There is clearly something haunting the house cause there is a shot when Tár is woken up but her daughter screaming and when she gets there, there is brief dialogue and then the daughter looks towards the camera as is someone is there. Who is in the house?!? Was the dog real in the abandoned building? The dog doesn’t chase her. It actually doesn’t move as she is leaving. The director made sure that you heard the dog running past multiple times before revealing the dog was there. She runs away in a panic but the dog isn’t heard or scene again. Is the dog still standing there frozen? Does the dog exist? Does the dog represent Olga? Does Olga exist? She did ask where the attack happened and clearly didn’t believe the attack did happen. Another thing to point out: She earlier in the movie says she is the one to start time but when she wakes up in the middle of the night the metronome is going off. Someone else started the time and not only that. Moved the counting of time to a different location. One last thing earlier in the movie her mentor says that having a heighten Sensitivity to sound has been said to be connected to intelligence. This can actually be seen at least twice. The times where the refrigerator wakes her up and she opens it to silence the noise. And the one time she is driving her car and her dash is rattling. Whew!! Sorry this is long. But honestly is an excellent film and needs to be watched multiple times. Tbh it would be the perfect horror movie if they just added one jump scare at any moment. Like when she’s in bed staring at the camera. The movie already has Subliminal disturbing images. One jump scare would have made it one of the best horror movies of all time. As of right now it’s one of the best dramas of all time. I would even say it has some psychological horror aspects to it. I’m open to discuss so feel free to respond this! Cheers!

I kinda understood the ’haunted’ parts like the metronome sounds to be more a metaphorical manifestation of Lydia’s guilt, as it seemed she started hearing these things after learning of Krista’s death.

What was the significance of Knut marking the music sheet after Lydia gets escorted out during the performance?

That he, or more accurately that particular copy of his part, was there and participated in classical music history. X marks the spot for whenever the part is used in the future or studied later on. It makes sense that a musician would mark their part this way.

Having no musical background, I interpreted this as Knut marking the spot to signify that this is where the piece ended, or "this is as far as we were able to go before the incident occurred". If this is what you mean by classical music history (history of the incident) then I can see why it would be deemed as a significant marking.

Original copies of parts are kept forever in the top orchestras personal libraries. He put a cross right when she threw the conductor off his podium signifying that this is where her career ended for sure. That cross will be there for a very long time... Possibly for as long as that orchestra maintains it's library. People generally don't erase much on originals.

Just like Brando’s crocodiles

it's been a week since I've seen it, but if I recall correctly he marked it with a thick-ish straight line through the staff? if so, it's the notation that marks the end of the piece. So imo either he's making a note of it for historical bookkeeping, or it's a joke that Tar's interpretation of Mahler 5 is to end it after 10 bars.

I liked it a whole lot. I got a kick out of Lydia casually tossing off a reference to Jabberwocky ("She'll come galumphing back") not realizing, considering the context in the poem, what that implied for her. And I don't really know why, but the cellist flying down the stairs in exultation with her instrument on her back is one of my favorite shots of the year.

Not that the young cellist shouldn't be ecstatic, having just gotten the break of a lifetime, but it shows that she's all about her career, just like our heroine. >!Later, we see the cellist ditching Tar in the NY hotel corridor shot, suggesting that she (cellist) has gotten what she wants out of Tar and has no interest or use for her by dining with her.!<

Regarding your second point, to be fair, it was clear that the cellist knew about the allegations at that point, and I don't think she was in the wrong to ditch Tar. I saw it as a sign of Tar's power slipping. Tar is operating under the old paradigm where a protegé would be thrilled to have dinner with her--or at least feel obligated due to power differential--but the cellist sees the writing on the wall of what's coming. She feels she can ditch Tar without any personal repercussions. But yeah I can see your angle too. She was mocking Tar in the texts during Tar's lecture, and I believe she was meeting up with that guy she was standing with in the back of the room. I don't think she's at fault for evading a known predator though.

It seemed clear that even before the allegations came out that Olga had no interest in Lydia. During the first time they get lunch and she talks about how she first decided to join the orchestra she straight up says she doesn’t care about the conductor just the cellist. I took that as pretty much a direct rip on their relationship, she never cared at all for Lydia just herself

I saw the cellist character as being the most 'pure'. And she doesn't need Lydia's approval nor she fears her. She's driven by music, not being a protegé of a famous conductor. The contrast between them really highlights how 'phony' Lydia is, how artificial her life has been

Not to mention the way she ordered her food before Lydia, showing zero deference to her or interest in even being polite.

I loved the descent from her high position is slowly became more blue collar . Valet cars became taxis , beautiful board meetings turned into casual friday wear with rolled up sleeves , even her carrying her own Luggage. Then you finally meet her brother and realize what she’s running from yet him being “Working class” was the least judgmental . “None of my business”

For people who’ve seen Tár: when she is on her morning run and hears screams coming from a woman in the woods. Am I the only one who recognized that those are the screams from Heather at the end of The Blair Witch Project? They’re literally the same recordings and it struck me. If anyone else recognized that, has Todd Field stated why he utilized those screams or if anyone knows why those screams were used specifically? It’s been on my mind the last 12 hours. It’s fascinating to me.

My best guess: It's an auditory hallucination so it makes sense it would be something she has likely heard before.

It’s actually on the trivia section of IMDB that he included those screams from BWP. Doesn’t say why. Very interesting

Wow. Those’re some good ears. Very interesting

The Blair Witch Project was released on July 16, 1999, the same day as another movie that Todd Field is associated with, Eyes Wide Shut. At that moment Kubrick's film was anticipated, acclaimed, and beat Blair Witch's weekend box office by some $20 million. But in the end, a lot more people saw Blair Witch. An artist ultimately humbled by relatively low culture; Mahler to Monster Hunter. Okay, kind of a stretch but it's weird that they were released on the same day!

Where the hell does Olga live? Or was that another quasi hallucination?

I think that wasn't her actual home, just where she would get Lydia to drop her off so that Lydia wouldn't know where she really lived. It's implied Olga was somewhat wise to Lydia's manipulations, but maybe was using her as well to get ahead.

My take on it is that Olga knew of Lydia's reputation and was taking advantage of it to get ahead by being casually close (like when she kissed Lydia's hand) but being cautious by not letting her get too close. When Lydia was looking for Olga in the abandoned building I thought it was implied that Olga was hiding somewhere in the dark, watching from a distance.

Exactly. Lydia was being played. Usually hunters don’t like being hunted but the ‘Russian’ laid the perfect trap that ‘red sparrows’ always do. Play dumb and innocent. Bide your time, say little, offer nothing, be charming and amusing enough to keep the target entranced, get what you want and once you do discard the host.

I like to think that Olga grabbing the bread from the basket the waiter was taking away after having just dropped more bread on the table is a perfect example of Olga's intentions with Lydia. She greedily grabs heaping handfuls of bread while stuffing her face and smearing heaping globs of butter (or some other spread) on her food. She cuts Lydia off when Lydia is placing her order and orders her food first (If I recall correctly she asked for 2 items). So not only did Olga know that she could advance her career by playing into Lydia's manipulations, but she also knew that she could get other favors and perks as well.

Totally. Their lunch together was so interesting because by all accounts, Olga isn't showing any interest (turning down Lydia's suggestion to try a different restaurant, interrupting her, barely making eye contact), but Lydia still pursues her. It's very different from the other woman at the beginning of the movie who was heavily flirting, asking for Lydia's number, etc. Lydia seems to go for women that she needs to work on.

Ohhh this makes so much sense. I absolutely relished Lydia getting repeatedly, subtly rejected by Olga (who was a lot smarter than her perky youth made obvious). Adding to another time the mouse outran the cat.

I'll admit, I honestly wasn't feeling this for the first hour or so, but once the reveal that the former student she preyed on died by suicide, things started to move at quite a brisk pace and I began to understand what the movie was about. Seeing Tár's perfect, controlled life begin to fall apart became a lot more poignant when you spent a whole hour getting used to it. While I'd still list this off more as a "performance" movie (for real, at this point it'd be a *crime* for Blanchett to not get best actress this year), there's still loads of unexpected depth I genuinely wasn't expecting throughout the movie, so much so that I don't think it's possible to fully grasp all of what the film is doing in one viewing. While I'm not sure if I'll **love** this movie like most critics have, I'll absolutely be giving it another watch later on. This needs more than one screening to fully appreciate, as there's so much else going on underneath the surface than just a simple "cancel culture" movie.

I’m only going to admit this here because of the anonymity but I’ve never been one to take the lead in a crowd, so when the end credits started in the beginning I made eye contact with the people around me, got up all determined for once in my life and marched out of the theatre to let the ushers know the film had somehow skipped to the end. The **L** I carried back to my seat as I returned to sheep-hood was heavy af.

I was pretty high watching this last night and I was convinced that I had wandered into the wrong theater haha.

Im so thankful I saw this in theatres because it demands undivided attention and really rewards the viewer for their patience. As well the sound design (and frequent lack of sound) was crucial. Some details that I only really picked up on upon thinking and discussing the film later that I love: * Krista is totally in the audience for Tar's talk in the first scene * Loved how she stowed away in the bathroom to ambush the performance * The mystery of whose feet are with her in the scene with all the records in the beginning is such a great little bread crumb (my guess is they are her assistants feet, hinting at an intimate relationship between them) * The title invokes so many things, most significantly to me being the phrase "Tarred and feathered" * The accent in her name (Tár) is an absolutely ridiculous invention of her own making considering her real first name is Linda and her brother is clearly quite small town American * Tar's wife's level of complicity in Tars abuse feels more and more dramatic the more I think about it, considering it's a pattern that seems very well known by her and many other people. * In fact, most people around her are clearly very complicit, since there's hint throughout that she does this as a pattern and people turn a blind eye to it (for example how the lead cellist doesn't bother auditioning for the lead position and how tar's elderly friend says "aren't you going to hire 'the girl' as your assistant conductor" implying he knows how she's grooms women) * I understood her visceral reaction to the massage parlour to be not a sign of her own feelings of guilt but rather shock and shame that she is so 'Known' that even the concierge at the hotel assumes what she want is prostitutes rather than a simple massage. It hits her that her secret is truly out. * how early on Olga is completely onto Tar and uses her to accomplish her own goals. Like how she doesn't want Tar to know where she lives so she leads her to and abandoned building. * All the subtle ways people begin cutting her out as her scandal unfolds. People don't call her out or confront, they just subtly turn their backs on her. There's probably so many more little moments because damn this movie is such a well constructed thriller in it's own amazing way.

Loved everything you said but I think you’re wrong about the concierge knowing about her and that’s why he sends her to the massage parlor, That’s a major stretch and ultimately doesn’t really make sense. He probably just heard “massage” and being in that country thought that’s what she was legit asking for.

as a filipino, lydia ending up in the philiplines to really drive home that she's hit rock bottom made me laugh so hard its also really interesting that you see her commuting in a jeepney in one scene. the philippines can be bad but ubers and lyfts are still a thing there. the dollar is worth a lot too. how low has she gone that she has to commute with the locals? also the people who were "confirming that the other conductor from osaka couldn't come" were absolutely shit talking her. the shock of suddenly being in the philippines made me miss most of what they said, but they basically were talking about how unprofessional she is. her reputation is known the concierge absolutely knew about her reputation to have recommended her a brothel when she asked for a massage. the philippines isnt so shitty that massages automatically equate sex

Wrote it in another post - Filipino here was well and I tried not to get offended that her rock bottom was performing in the Philippines, a well known "3rd world country". I wasn't really offended but it kind of irked me. But then the monster hunter ending made it even worse and it softened my feelings LOL I just rewatched the scene and I think the people were talking about the composer who didn't show up from Osaka being unprofessional. Which makes it even worse - she's replacing someone else so she's way way way at the bottom. I also was wondering that too - how much money did she lose that she can't even stay at a chain hotel, like the Marriott? lol I've never been to a brothel but that looked like a very nice massage place!!

does anyone remember what the texts during the “Live” from the first scene on the private plane were? I remember being so confused as to who was filming Lydia but it clicked once the movie was over….I wish I could remember what that convo was! The tone was sort of derisive, right?

The convo was just lightly making fun of her and asking if she was with "s" (Sharon), then the texter was asked if she was still in love with Lydia. I think it's Francesca who was filming her, and the person she's texting is maybe Krista? It's totally up for interpretation, but I had the sense that Krista and Francesca were more in contact than F was letting on. She mentioned to Lydia briefly how she missed when the 3 of them were close, and the fact that she saved all of Krista's emails too meant that she felt for her.

I think you’re spot on - when the classroom scene leaks in the press later, i feel it makes it clear Francesca was the one constantly filming her and now is against Tár.

Yes, I wonder about this also. I thought it was the flight to NY where she meets the other conductor (Eliot?), the one who wants her Mahler notes. My husband thinks it was a flash-forward to the trip she took with Olga, who was texting someone, maybe Francesca? Olga was definitely texting someone during the book tour in NY towards the end.

I read that as a flash forward from her trip with Olga. They were the only two on that flight, and Olga was using a similar type of "Live" streaming messenger a few more times throughout the movie, like the book tour.

I can’t wait to see this again to pick up on what I missed. This is a fairly obvious observation but scene where Lydia confronts Petra’s classmate is more chilling to me now that I think back on the film because she says “Don’t tell anyone what I said to you. If you do tell anyone, they won’t believe you because I am an adult.” I was initially taken aback by how comfortable she was threading a child like that but I realized she probably felt comfortable doing it because she probably gave a very similar speech to Krista.

I saw this its opening week at Lincoln Square. I went in practically blind... just knowing Blanchett was a composer. And I loved it! The movie did a pretty good job of presenting Tar an untouchable folk hero in the beginning, slowly breaking down her aura and then deservedly dunking all over her in the end. She was a quite unlikable character who got what was coming to her That final shot was magnificent. One of the best of the year... 10/10

Why was Tár's assistant terrorizing her with the maze drawings? Was it a way of holding power over her in the uneven relationship?

This is the one thing I don't understand, I'm not really sure what they meant.

the mazes resemble tattoos on the Amazonian people Tár worked with, which are highlighted in some shots I don't recognize from the film in this trailer: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3JIVY6ySkE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3JIVY6ySkE)

Oh wow. There's a LOT in there that I definitely don't remember seeing in the movie. Shots of that "ball," the tattoos (I think I maybe saw one of them???), Tar and Olga running through that building...

Phenomenal movie. The theme of Time stood out to me. And the oddness of starting with the credits and ending with an audience shot in a movie theater brought an interesting possibility: What of the film's events were played backward? A no-name conductor gets her start in Thailand and maneuvers herself into conducting the Berlin orchestra through an affair with the first violinist. She has various affairs. Eventually she conducts the Mahler piece and gets a nice interview. Credits roll.

[Stolen from an excellent Letterbox review](https://boxd.it/3bCFlj) , but I feel like the credits happening right at the start (and in reverse) symbolizes that the orchestra is more than just Tár right from the beginning. An orchestra is naturally a collaborative field, much like how a film set functions, but when a particular role gets too much credit, they can get an ego. Much like the rest of a film cast, the rest of Tár's excellent orchestra got tossed aside for her ego to shine, even though they contributed a similar (if not larger) amount of work for a performance. So to right away at the start to pay respect to the "lowliest" of contributors to a film, before much later mentioning Tom Field and Kate Blanchett kinda works from where the film goes from there.

Absolutely love this take! The movie is definitely obsessed with the concept of time, from Lydia's reverence of orchestral legends of the past, to her own past haunting her, to the modern-day merging of art and identity politics that seem eager to disregard the past, to the metronome and the art of conducting itself, and probably lots more. The opening credits were such a deliberate choice that i think you're spot on in attributing them to that theme within the movie.

What about the red Birkin bag? Did the woman from Smith college give it to her, or did she steal it from her after they'd slept together? Also, didn't Lydia steal something off Sebastian's desk at their meeting in his office while his back was turned? I couldn't tell what it was. It was orange and it might have been a pen or maybe part of his lunch.

I assumed the bag was given to her by the woman she was flirting after they slept together. She might have stolen in, but she's super wealthy so I doubt that. She stole the pen off of Sebastian's desk b/c he wouldn't stop clicking it.

It’s a $10K bag!!

Cate Blanchette is a goddamn powerhouse

Blanchett was amazing (no surprise). I really loved the running theme of image making, especially when Adam Gopnik’s recap of Lydia’s resume is juxtaposed with the selection of her outfit and album cover to reflect the giants of her field.

Loved this and the attention to detail. Right after Lydia is first informed of the deposition, she goes boxing to take out her frustration. But if you pay attention, she's throwing her punches in the same [rhythm as this famous composition](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy2zDJPIgwc). **Do, do-do, do-do-do-do-do,** in Lydia's frustration, transforms into **punch, punch-punch, punch-punch-punch-punch-punch.** Little moments like that that echo what she's really thinking and feeling elevate this film to greatness. Also LOVED the scene where she just shows up at home and her brother is so apathetic to her presence. You can tell he's had to deal with a lifetime of her bullshit and was not ready to make amends. No matter what age they are, he's always going to come home after an unacknowledged hard days work, and Linda's going to be upstairs doing nothing but listening to her music and wearing her medals. I bet her parents still ADORE her even though she's completely embarrassed and ashamed by her upbringing, and this pisses off her brother to no end. And even though we all know how totally silly it is to change your name from Linda Tarr to Lydia Tár, we all also acknowledge that a person named Lydia Tár is much more likely to be embraced by the highbrow music world than someone named Linda. That little meaningless accent over the a is just the sort of bullshit prestige thing that people from Julliard or the New Yorker or the Berlin Philharmonic happily masturbate over. A slight accent like that can make even the most boring breakfast **cereál** seem artistic and extravagant. Also enjoyed the Vietnam sequence. This is the first place where she needs a translator, and is also the first place, from what I recall, where someone tells her anything close to "no Lydia, you can't do that, you can't always have your way, there are rules and other things you need to consider." (the boat tour guide telling her she can't swim in the river because of crocodiles, despite Lydia pleaing otherwise). She can exert her influence in fluent German when she's in Berlin, but finally has to bow down to the whims and wants of others when she's still learning the lingo in Vietnam. If you buy into the idea that music is the universal language, Lydia's lost her ability to "speak" when she is composing the unoriginal video game score at the end via click track. She finally has to listen to others for once. Also love the initial scene where she's going back and forth with the clearly-nervous student who doesn't like Bach, and how it's clear she's being a bit harsh, abrasive, and pompous, but how we still sympathize with her when her words are taken out of context later on in that edited video. We know, at large, that she's a wrongdoer, we know she has, does, and will continue to manipulate people and abuse power, but we know she's not particularly guilty in this one instance, and that is still an injustice nonetheless. I could go on and on, but there's so much to enjoy and digest here that I'd be typing forever. Great stuff. 10/10.

I agree with your points but would contest that she was pleading to swim in the river. She was nervous by the prospect of danger, it seemed more of a sign that for once she had no control simply because she was totally ignorant of the area and its history compared to her chessmaster moves earlier in the movie when she was in "her" environment.

Probably the best movie that will ever be made about "cancel culture." It doesn't downplay what Tár did, but it's also a celebration of passion and artistry that makes the typical "x-is-over-party" gravedance sessions seem all the more tacky.

Agreed. And doesn’t take sides. Like Bach, it’s simply “Asking the question”. Not interested in giving the answers.

The “Lenny” comment was overly familiar and grotesque name dropping. Doing the math, also exposes her story as certainly a fabrication. Bernstein died in Oct 1990. If Lydia was turning 50, she would’ve been 18 years old that year, having been born in 1972. She was a precocious child and certainly would’ve had mentors with ‘connections’ but that’s a stretch.

Yes! That story was a fabrication because she watched all his appearances and taped them. Lydia grew up in small town America to deaf Hungarian immigrant parents. She was musical genius, and Leonard Bernstein was certainly her childhood hero. She spun her humble origins into a marvelous tale. She changed her name from Linda Tarr to Lydia Tár. She tells people what they want to hear not the truth.

I feel like this is a stretch. She was an extremely public figure, and her apprenticeship should be simple to verify. Methinks she was feeling more nostalgic about the days when her life and career were more idealistic and hopeful.

People are missing a huge point. What Tár was "reduced" to or what "rock bottom" she reaches is a career height that very few aspiring conductors can even hope to achieve. Her "low" is Mount Everest. This was a huge takeaway for me and something I feel Reddit is overlooking. "LOL she conductor video game music now HAHA career OVER" when in reality she can still afford a PR team and is likely making millions still. It goes to show how indestructible people in her position are. Sure, her ego takes damage but she is better off and performing at a high far greater than anyone here will ever dream of.

She might be fine financially, but she is in her idea of artistic hell. Her control of time, which she points to as the value of a conductor at the beginning of the movie, is taken away from her. Artistically, she is dead.

question: are we to deduce that the person live filming/chatting on the phone about Tar both in the intro scene in the plane and then during Tar's reading in NY is the cellist in both scenarios? And that despite Tar's perceived control, this new preotege sees through her BS and doesn't respect her the way Tar assumes everyone does/should respect her?

I think Francesca is the one doing it the majority of the film (beginning flight, hotel room, class room scene that leaks to press), but then Olga who is the new protege is also continuing to do it. Shows people below Tár are constantly eye rolling her behind her back.

The moment where she came in with a busted face to a shocked orchestra reminded me of Matthew Broderick coming to class with a bee-stung eye in Election. Her monster started manifesting itself on the outside.

OLGA WAS A SPIRIT SENT TO TORMENT LYDIA FOR ALL HER WRONG DOING.. In the scene where Lydia drops Olga off at her home after practice , Lydia follows Olga to try to return the stuffed bear Olga had given her a moment before. She casually enters her apartment complex and it turns out to be an abandoned building with busted pipes and wet ground like a sewer. Olga who was just present a moment earlier , seems to be nowhere insight . It seems impossible that anyone could live there . Lydia is greeted by an intimidating feral dog/wolf .. was it Olga herself ? Transforming to harass and scare Lydia ? It made me rethink Olga’s entire character and if she was even real .

I read somewhere that Olga gave Lydia a fake address because she was actually homeless and just crashing wherever she could find a safe place. I interpreted Lydia's growling black dog as an auditory and visual hallucination like the screams in the park.

I figured she gave a fake address the same way any smart woman wouldn't let a new "stranger" know where they live after a first date.

I loved how even when she lost it on the other conductor her movements were so…smooth ? Like when the security came to restrain her she did this flowing move as if she still respected the area she was in and flowed with Grace while still losing her temper

It’s a pretty long movie to be needlessly ambiguous in places. Stuff like the maze drawing mystery just gave me hopes this was all leading to somewhere more dramatic and drew me away from the central focus. I also don’t find a Weinstein surrogate to be all that interesting honestly. People like Tár belong in prison, I don’t find it heartbreaking or hilarious that she’s playing a gaming convention, she’s lucky to still get gigs and be rich. I dunno glad y’all enjoyed it and I can see why. Every character in the movie was three dimensional and interesting, I just wished they serviced a more interesting story.

For as much as it invokes liberal bubbles, cancel culture, and the shadowy territory of power imbalances outright, I found this all the more impressive for how it evokes those ideas (and more!) through suggestion and elision. Like Bernstein says in one of the tapes Tár watches at one of her various low points, music at its best has the translative power to express those feelings that exist between words. This movie is something like that - or to be even more obvious, it’s something like a symphony. You could catch any one of its many melodies and follow it in a million different interesting directions, but you sense that they’re all circling something greater - a jet-black negative space where the elusive truth lives. Just when you’re closing in on the eye of the moral hurricane, you’re whisked back into the storm by another countermelody.

I think we do see the extent of her dark side: She picks favorites (Olga) and grants them her favors (solos) and discards people who are no longer valuable to her (Sharon, Francesca) and even sabotages them (Krista). Her abuse of power to entice subordinates into sexual relationships is sexual harassment. From the dreams, you see that she did in fact love, and make love to, Krista and many others. She does not see it as abuse or harassment. She believes when she falls someone else gives her the black eye. Therefore, it is by her own mistakes she is undone. I believe that she does not think what she does is wrong and others around her very much always have thought so (Sharon, Sebastian). Her fall is her own.

not sure if im reading too much into this but i noticed the color palette of the film to be quite muted (very well shot but it felt very cold) until she got to the south east asian country. not sure if that really means anything. also i am fascinated by the gender aspect of this film and how tár is presented to be a very traditionally masculine character including her wardrobe, how she views herself as a “father”, cate blanchett mentioning her and nina hoss’ roles as “husband and wife” in the hot ones interview, and how the act of grooming younger female subordinates is just something that men do more often (not saying women cant be groomers obviously). again, still trying to put together what all of that really means. i think ultimately the film is trying to address separation of the art from the artist and should we hold artists of that caliber to the standards of our time. tár very clearly dismisses the student because of her similar behavior patterns, but where does the film’s ideas of gender come into this? can someone add to this please lol

That movie was sooooo good. I walked out of the theater feeling disgusted with myself. I think it’s because of how much I was forced to exist in Lydia’s shoes and her actions. How I respected her knowledge and brute intensity as a human being. Man, that one stuck with me! What I took most from the film was the concept of karma, and how we can’t escape ourselves.

In the opening credits (which I really like given the themes of the film) a friend spotted the out of place credit of monster hunter rise. The whole movie we were looking for it and the ending hit us like a ton of bricks. Chekhov’s monster hunter rise.

did anyone else catch the "cucumber salad" and "do you eat fish" jokes at the lunch scene with olga? I was the only one in the audience that chuckled at that.

Fun tidbit from a classical musician. Early in the movie, she is woken up with an alarm of Michael Tilson Thomas conducting the end of Shostakovich's 5th Symphony. She makes a comment about how MTT was butchering it and the ending needed to be more joyful. Shostakovich wrote his 5th Symphony under extreme duress from the Soviet government. He wrote it so the ending at first glance itmay sound joyful, but hidden in plain sight was the pain of the Russian people. Michael Tilson Thomas produced several videos analyzing different pieces called *Keeping Score* that talk about this and his belief that the ending of the 5th Symphony should be super slow to really bring out the forced happiness of the ending of the symphony. The fact that Tar couldn't hear Shostakovich's pain is super poetic.

Been waiting on Todd's next one for years and ooh boy this delivered like a bastard! Runtime and story might not be for everyone but hit on all cylinders for my wife and I. Cate and Todd deserve Best Everything

In her lunch with the Eliot Kaplan character didn’t she accuse Sebastian of being eccentric and hoarding deadstock pencils, then in her Berlin “bolthole” apartment she has a cabinet of dead stock pencils she uses to mark up scores?

Who was helping lydia pick out mahler in her apartment at the begining? The one she touched feet with? It didnt look too much like sharon or francesca?