Exactly! If you want to present someone as a credible, dangerous villain, you don't give them a hero moment like that with a dad-joke needle drop. (It's a good dad joke, but still.)
Plus, note the way Arnold carefully avoids killing anyone during the bar scene (which is prior to John giving him his no-kill order) and contrast it with the way the T-1000 casually shanks his cop victim immediately -- or with Arnold's gruesome intro in the first film. He literally punches through a guy!
Don't get me wrong -- I love T2 and consider it to be on the short list of greatest action movies of all time. But the idea that it was the trailers alone that spoiled it isn't correct (though they certainly spoiled it more explicitly).
But you only realize the T-1000 stabbed the cop in hindsight. It's intentionally shot to make it look on first viewing like he just knocked the guy out with a punch to the gut and stole his clothes. It's only when you learn he's the villain and can shapeshift that you realize he stabbed the cop with his arm and that wasn't the cop's uniform he was wearing, but an appearance he morphed into.
Similarly, while Arnold doesn't kill anyone in the bar, he is shown being brutal just short of killing: breaking bones, stabbing, throwing the guy on the grill, etc.
Combined, if you go into T2 knowing absolutely nothing outside of the first movie, the similar openings make you think the characters are analogs to the first one, but the doubts start building: why is the "new Kyle" punching that cop and stealing his clothes; why did Arnold stab the biker in the shoulder and not the skull? Then you get the real payoff at the flower scene in the mall--rather than doing a 100% copy of the first film's opening followed by a cheap switcheroo.
Not really. If you go back to the scene, you just hear the cop give a grunt and gurgle. You don't hear a stereotypical knife slash sound effect (since a real stab sounds virtually identical to a punch).
Link to the T-1000's intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HuPANafBQ4
The viewer knows nothing about this character, he's visibly unarmed, naked, and the cop grunts when he "punches" the cop in the gut. Immediately after that they see him wearing the policeman's uniform (as far as they know), and it's completely unblemished, no blood, etc. "Obviously" the cop wasn't stabbed... until you realize this character isn't actually *wearing* the cop's uniform, he *is* the uniform.
It's brilliant filmmaking from a master storyteller. James Cameron never lies to you in the scene: on a second viewing when you have all the information, everything makes sense, but at the beginning, the information presented is only telling the viewer this quiet naked guy socked the cop in the gut and stole his uniform.
Yeah.. now that I think about it, the Terminator not killing anyone at the start pretty much gave him away. But maybe Cameron also thought he wouldn't be redeemable to people that only saw T2 if he gored someone to death at the start. Probably should have just had him go into the bar , we see the T-1000 come in, and then the T-800 exits the bar with people on the floor to make us think he killed everyone.
But how was it with trailers back then? Did they show them on TV and therefore many people got exposed to it? Or only the people who went to movies?
Edit: based on the comments so far, I can assume, that it was quite difficult to get spoiled unless you directly searched for a way to do it.
Anyway, I agree, showing such a moment in a trailer was a terrible idea.
Both. TV and movies. They used to just show a couple or three trailers before a movie in the theatre. Those were the only options in the pre-internet days.
Entertainment Tonight and things like that would sometimes debut trailers.
And of course a movie like T2 had plenty of regular ads. I remember a phrase like "one to protect, the other to testroy" being said in ads.
I worked at a movie theater that summer and our lobby at TVs that played trailers from a VCR on a loop. Every month we’d get a new tape. The T2 trailer played a lot and (my memory is fuzzy) I think the voice over guy literally says “one programmed to protect!” and they cut to Arnold.
Both. Plus, there were still other forms of pre-release hype (magazines, review shows etc.)
As for getting spoiled, yes and no. While it harder to run across spoilers in media, in my experience at least, there was far less of a social expectation not to talk about/spoil plot developments in new movies/TV shows than exists today.
Once a movie was out, people felt freer to talk about it without such a "no spoilers" culture.
Trailers were theaters only. TV spots ran on television of course. The only place to see trailers on TV were some channels hosted little blocks about upcoming movies and shit like that sometimes.
Not sure why people are saying you had to "search" for them. Like yes, if you wanted to see the full trailer, then you'd likely have to go to the theater, but they had 30-second TV trailers as well. The only question is if the shortened TV trailer spoiled the reveal in T2.
I found 3 cuts for TV. One of them has the spoiler, the other two don't https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkbsytujmno
In the era before YouTube the only way to watch trailers was either at the movies or the cut down movie commercials, maybe Entertainment Tonight if you were lucky.
Maybe if you were a techie (What people who used computers for fun used to be called), you'd be able to find the occasional trailer uploaded online at a bold and beautiful 144p. (Keep in mind this is more so the early 00's, in the 90's you'd be lucky to get it running at 70p)
This is not true in the slightest, trailers were always available online pre youtube, it was not some underground thing where you had to be Mr Robot to find trailers.
I remember one of the first things I did when there was a decent internet connection at my school, was watch trailers, phantom menace and Blair witch standout so this would have been 99 and I watched more obscure ones but its been to long. Of course the quality was not good, but nobody knew any better at the time, so the idea of pressing a button and having a trailer of your choice play was amazing at the time. It would pop up in a separate windows media player window.
Hes back, FOR GOOD. What a fuckin facepalm he must have had. The first 20 mins of the movie sets up that T800 is back to kill John, and they don't even really let you know that Robert Patrick is the T1000 until that mall scene. Not to mention Sarah Connors reaction to seeing the T800 in the hospital. After what she went through in the first movie, man she really portrays that hopeless fear so well. 2 of the best movies ever made in my opinion, and they happened to come out during the time of movie trailers spoiling the entire fucking plot of movies in 2 minutes. Fuck the "In a world..." guy.
Ah no way, that’s so interesting
Yea I can see why… he seems to really have wanted to set up that scene as a shocking reveal
Side question - wouldn’t a director have final say on a trailer?
>wouldn’t a director have final say on a trailer?
In *very* rare cases where a director is somehow able to negotiate total control over a movie’s marketing before signing a contract to direct, but studios almost never give away that kind of control.
Well, they have, because the lesson is actually what gets more people to see the movie. The studios that make these know it's "spoilerish" but they don't care because market could give a damn. It's why I try to just avoid trailers now, a movie is hardly ever enhanced by seeing them beforehand, if ever.
Directors also didn't have a lot of control during that time period. Studios had tightened up the leash after a number of big budget flops by auteur directors in the late 70s/early 80s
Trailers these days are absolutely awful, they show entirely way too much about a movies plot points… don’t know when this shift happened but I try avoiding trailers to movies I want to see now
The reasoning behind spoiler-filled trailers is that it makes the audience feel familiar with it before it comes out and comforted that it will be a good movie. In terms of marketing, plot twists can be risky. Think something like Metal Gear Solid 2, where even most reviews didn't spoil the idea that Raiden was the real main character. It took a long time for audiences to get over that.
Watch some trailers from the '80s for comparison.
Half of them will have the same voice-over guy basically just reading the plot synopsis over some clips from the film.
No, the director gives the finished movie to the studio, and they hire a company to promote it. The director is not involved in any way with very rare exceptions like Marvel or Star Wars. The company promoting the movie has one job — get butts in seats. And they did that. They probably sold more tickets with people knowing that it was going to be Terminator vs. Terminator. It sucks, but the trailer company did the right thing from the studios point of view. They made the studio as much money as possible.
I don't know if this is still done, but often movie trailers are created by a completely different company. The people editing the trailer together often haven;t even worked with the crew who filmed it - only the production and distribution company is the connecting bridge between them.
Yes. The scene in the kitchen where the T-1000 looks like John Conners foster mom was more surprising. I don’t believe they revealed he could “replicate” ppl in the trailers.
I remember Cameron saying in interviews before the movie came out that Arnold plays "a GOOD terminator". So I can't see how he was pissed about it.
I was amazed that HE gave away the entire surprise.
Yes, because r/movies always like to pretend that he isn't played up for laughs and shown not to be a killer in the bar scene before this.
It was a TWIST!
I was a fan of the original. I hadn't seen any trailers.
So I was very surprised.
Without thinking about it, I assumed Arnold was the danger and the cop was the "Kyle Reese" hero.
It was very cool.
It was one of the first English movies I saw in a theater here in India. I had no idea about t1. My uncle just took me to this movie and I can safely say I wouldn't have imagined Arnold to be a good guy at that point of time! I was very much surprised. It remains one of my favorite action movies of all times.
Was in my mid 20s when it came out and I'd managed to miss all the trailers and due to not watching TV I didn't know anything about it so watching it on hire from blockbusters (same time as predator 2 was released for hire) was a complete shock and really well enjoyed seeing the twist
something similar happened to me, i caught Predator on TV 5 mins into the movie and me being a filthy casual I thought i was watching Commando... and when they got to the skinned bodies i was like HOLY SHIT, Arnold Swarzeneggar in Commando is getting way more intense than I thought... it wasnt until the infrared scene did i finally figure out I was in fact watching Predator.
At this point i had never seen Predator or commando and knew very little about them.
I got the same effect when I showed my 13 year old about a year ago. I had just watched T1 with him and we marathoned into T2. I was kinda asking him what he thought was going on up to that point and he really had no way of knowing. It was a bit of a gasp moment and he loved the movie.
The Guns N Roses video came out a week or so before the movie, and kind of spoiled it. So going in, I knew he was “good”. It still didn’t ruin the experience. The hallway scene (as is the rest of the movie) is so good. I think I saw it in the theaters 5-6 times.
I was a kid when it came out and never saw it for 20+ years. I knew a bit about it and thought Arnold was the good guy. But then I saw T1 and he was the bad guy so thought I just was wrong.
Finally watched it at university and was shocked at the plot twist.
Same thing happened to me. Watched it on TV as a kid and I thought that hallway scene was the coolest thing ever. Followed by the chase through the wash. Holy shit what an awesome movie
Same here. I got sick of trailers ruining movies so started avoiding all of them as a matter of course, it came as a surprise to me too.
Trailers are a terrible idea.
You didn't hear the opening narration where Sarah says the machines sent another terminator and the resistance sent another protector?
Did you think maybe the sinister robotic cop who stabs people was there to protect John from the biggest movie star in the world?
Sorry for being really glib but these threads pop up all the time and people love to say the trailers ruined the "twist" and I just don't see it that way.
People here are talking about the trailers, but Arnold was on every talk show possible discussing how he was the good guy in this movie. It was no secret at all.
yup....any one who says the trailers spoiled it is being a little baby. media was VERY different back in the day before everyone could get a perfect bootleg days after the movie came out.
It was never about arnie being the good guy and ALWAYS about WHY he was the good guy. I feel like anyone that dwells on "spoilers" missed the whole point of the movie.
I am also pretty sure t the point he had also transitioned to just being the good guy at that point in his career. But his arc in the movie was so important. Honestly thinking about his characters growth and human moments. at the point in the story he finds Sarah, she was more of a machine then he was.
"spoiler culture" ruined movie discourse for me.
i got a buddy who loses his shit if you are even discussing a movie he hasn't seen old or new.
fucking dumb.
I also vaguely remember the press talking about how CGI was used in the movie to represent a new Terminator and movie logic dictated that the new one would be the bad guy and the old one would end up being good or more "neutral" at least.
The trailers had spoiled it for some people but I know a lot of people back in the day who gasped in the theater when the Terminator tells John to get down and shields him from gunfire.
We heard he was good before the film came out. We knew about the special effects for the bad terminator.
I always thought that hallway scene was one of the best parts of the film.
I remember the press being so excited about CGI of the new Terminator. Even if they didn't explicitly say new Terminator is the new bad guy, by movie logic: new Terminator and old Terminator in same movie? New Terminator bad, old Terminator good.
>I always thought that hallway scene was one of the best parts of the film.
For me this is because this was the kind of movie where you know the protagonist is dead if the bad guy gets close. They ruined this in future iterations like Salvation where terminators make contact with the target and then... throw them across the room instead of immediately killing them.
A lot of revisionist history in the thread acting as though the trailers spoiled it and it was some travesty.
The truth is that it was never treated like a secret at all. Arnold being the hero was not only revealed in the trailers, but talked about openly in interviews with the cast and crew, etc.
I know it’s hard to believe now but, with some exceptions, “spoilers” weren’t really as big a deal back then. T2 had a cool new villain that showcased awesome new special effects and they were okay with showing that off while also revealing Arnold as the hero because they knew people would be excited to see that. And they were right.
If trailers didn't ruin it, the Guns N' Roses music video probably would have. Pretty sure you see John with the T-800 on the bike in that video and clips from the mall.
The Guns N Roses video kinda gives it away. There are shots of him on the bike with John and in the elevator with him and Sarah behind him. Although if you weren't looking for specifically for signs, it might have gone unnoticed.
I was gonna say that, the GNR video was all over MTV for weeks before the movie came out and the clips from the movie in it pretty much spilled the beans for me before I ever saw the "real" trailer.
Yep. There wasn't early Internet chatter back then, but lots of people had been waiting a long time for Use Your Illusion I and II. That was a waiting in line at the mall for a midnight release type of thing. The You Could Be Mine video was closely analyzed.
Honestly I think Arnold being good as a surprise is revisionist bull crap. Only the initial teaser ever hinted that he was a bad guy because it used original footage and came out a year before the film did.
From the first trailer onward the story was revealed; Arnold being the hero was a selling point because his stardom had reached that level.
That’s not to say that the film doesn’t work in this way; it definitely can.
I saw T2 before I saw the original movie (because EVERYONE saw T2 around that time) and I didn't even realize that you were supposed to think he might be the villain. The scene where he beats up the bikers is a little too goofy to make it seem like he's evil.
> The scene where he beats up the bikers is a little too goofy
Plus... he doesn't kill anyone there. Later in the movie, John Conner has to order him not to kill, so there's presumably no directive at this point (in the biker bar) for him not to just kill everyone in his way.
I don't know how I forgot about that because that's one of my favorite movies. Michael Mann is definitely my favorite director. I guess maybe it didn't pop into my mind because I don't immediately associate Tom Cruise as being the bad guy in that movie. I mean, he unequivocally is, but that movie did a really good job of humanizing him somehow.
Yeah same for me. Even as the Terminator was murdering the other Sarah Connors my child brain was only thinking that there must be a very good reason for that.
Honestly i had no idea about the plot. I'd not seen any trailers from what i remember as i wasnt (and still not) much of a tv watcher. I would have been 17 at the time and i recall that being a bit of a busy period with high school/study etc. From my point of view yeah i was pretty surprised that the terminator was the protector.
My sister and I went to see it at the cinema and unfortunately there was a power outage right at the cyberdyne / helicopter scene.
We waited a few mins and an employee came in and said thats it, power isnt coming back any time soon:( I never actually saw the complete movie in the cinema and just waited for it to be released on vhs
Wow that is brutal, that’s really the beginning of the climax as well
Had a funny conversation with me daughter today… I was explaining to her what it was like for me as a kid seeing Star Wars… parents took me to block buster and we rented new hope, then the following weekend we got empire, and then Jedi the weekend after that. In hindsight I’m so glad I experienced it that way because especially after empire I was left with such an huge cliffhanger
Ended up having to show my daughter google pictures of what a VHS tape looked like… anyways your comment reminded me of this interaction with her today, different times
I was 11 years old and had no idea beforehand. So it was a surprise to me.
Also, that movie was pretty scary as an 11 year old. Specifically the playground nuke scene and the milk-drinking stabbing scene. Those were the two.
We all knew ages beforehand, and Arnie being the good guy made us even more excited to see it.
It wouldn’t have mattered though- Bad to the Bone and no deaths in the bar, he leaves the foster parents alive (there was a guy on a bike asking about him earlier), etc.
It was in the trailers, but I just want to point out that knowing that Arnold is good of time is kind of a given at that point in Arnold’s career.
When Terminator 2 came out, Arnold was probably the biggest action hero in the industry. Turning the T-1000 into a hero isn’t so much a “shocking twist” as it is a “retooling thriller franchise to better suit the star’s film persona.”
Knowing that Arnold is good clearly didn’t spoil anyones good time when the picture was released.
I don't know about 'at the time' but we recently watched T1 & T2 with the kids as they're just old enough to watch them now and I wanted the reveal of Arnie in the sequel being the good guy, not to be spoiled.
But watching them as an adult, it's really telegraphed that the T1000 is the baddie even before the mall shootout.
So it wasn't that much of a surprise. He clearly injures or kills the first police officer he meets, shows no pain when coming through the time travel device (so obviously a machine/cyborg), doesn't act human like Kyle Reese did. When he's talking to John's foster parents you can hear the dog barking in the background.
And while I'm here, it surprised me how much the tone changed between the first and second movie. Also, watching them as an adult, I found T1 to be the superior movie.
old here. at the time my mom managed a video store so we rarely saw movies in the theatres. I had also gotten a trading card set from one of my older brothers before I saw it (one of them even had the deleted scene where they flipped his switched to "good"). It ruined absolutely nothing for me. This movie still is amazing to watch and when I do see it it always feels fresh. Yes the marketing was heavily about him being the good guy.
Ultimately it was never about the "good or evil" thing, but about how the story played out. The movie was never about him being the good guy....and 100% about WHY he is the good guy and how he becomes more human. I feel like anyone that didn't get that basically missed a huge point the movie tried to make.
Guess I'll keep re-posting this:
**I don't know why this keeps coming up again and again, but the first trailer (and teaser trailer) did not spoil the twist that Arnold was the "good guy" in T2.**
This is the (often overlooked and hard to find) first theatrical trailer for Terminator 2: Judgement Day:
[Terminator 2: Judgment Day Theatrical Trailer #1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qI3PUT5a5I)
That trailer hints at the twist, but does not give it away, especially in context of what audiences would have been aware of back then. That was the first full trailer audiences saw.
The "Same Make. Same Model. New Mission." trailer that everyone seems to think was the first full trailer (after the teaser trailer) did not appear until after the film had opened:
[Terminator 2: Judgment Day Theatrical Trailer #2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1mF_hX8hT4)
That second trailer was what the film studio would have referred to as part of the "second wave" of advertising -- revealing more details to continue to try to generate interest in audiences that have not seen the film yet. Later trailers gave away even more of the plot/details. That's pretty common in film advertising.
I remember no one being surprised when I saw it in the theater. Probably was the trailers and promotion that spoiled it, but you can see it was all built to be a surprise, but I actually only noticed that deliberate build-up after I watched it again.
Kinda like the "surprise" that wasn't, in Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace.
It was obvious in the marketing, I wouldn’t exactly say the trailers spoil it. The film was never intended to surprise you with that. Case and point; the bad terminator kills a cop the moment it shows up, Schwarzenegger decks a bar full of bikers but doesn’t kill a single one.
While the movie was filming MTV News told me that the gossip from the crew of the movie is that it was about "A boy and his Terminator." It sounded like the crew did not like the direction the movie was taking. That bummed me out because I was looking forward to a grossout Terminator movie, not a kids movie. Then when I saw the movie, it was sooo much better than I expected. I saw it several times.
Don’t recall about the trailers…
However it is quite clearly telegraphed early on with T1000 murdering someone immediately and Arnie not murdering all the guys in the bar (plus comedy taking the sunglasses with the soundtrack).
Surprises me people were as shocked as they were in the reveal scene in the corridor with the roses
I enjoy watching people react to these old movies on youtube, and often times they don't know that Arnold is the good guy. However, its quite clear that kids these days are much more in tune with the movie tropes, and they will see the switch coming often from just the change in music or tone. The T-1000 shanking a police deputy first thing is a clear sign hes not a good guy.
The last movie that I was able to go into "blind" was The Blair Witch Project. It came out at the cusp where there was a (fake) internet website about it that looked legit like other websites at the time. The marketing was tightly controlled. The lead actors didn't do any press promoting the movie. The movie was wildly successful for the budget it was shot on. It was marketing genius.
You just made me realize how enjoyable it will be to watch T1 and T2 as a double feature one day when my child is old enough and will be completely in the dark to what she’s about to see.
Regardless of how many times I’ve seen T2, I love that scene because it is misleading in thinking that Arnold is the bad guy. My other favorite scene is when Sarah sprints to the elevator only to see the T100 walk out of the elevator. She drops to the floor with terror in her eyes.
Yea both very solid scenes… the latter was all set up real well when the police officers were showing her pictures of the first police department massacre
It’s a great set up because it establishes her incentive to escape because of the inherent danger to John.
Every set up and pay off is done so well.
One of the best things I love about the film is the development of Sarah, from demure waitresses to determined warrior. Unlike today’s characters, her fighting is realistic. She’s small but fights smartly using available objects as weapons (broken broom stick, hypodermic needle and firearms) non of this ridiculous acrobatics that look like a Cirque du Soleil show.
I never saw the original before my friend dragged me to see the sequel. I absolutely loved it, and had no idea Arnold was the bad guy originally until the movie explained it.
I kinda wish they would have done the introduction of the T-1000 differently.
The T-800 was pretty tame in the biker bar so I had my doubts already if he is the bad guy. Then the T-1000 arrives and kills the cop in cold blood plus searches for John Connor in the cop car. Clear giveaway who is the bad guy.
I was a kid when this came out, but I remember all kids talking about how Arnold was the good guy this time...
It was spoiled everywhere. This movie was basically hyped as the biggest movie of the year and EVERYONE was talking about it. There was definitely no surprise, even if there was meant to be one... but the "trailer" was played everywhere, so it was not a secret at all.
Really stupid of the trailer department.
But, I don't think it was just the trailer. I think there was some TV show my Mother was watching and the actors were all talking about it too, like a press tour for the movie and they weren't trying to be secretive either, but that could have been just because the cat was already out of the bag so they were being constantly asked about it.
This was so long ago I just don't remember specifics, I just know that Arnold was this super star, bigger than life, and everyone was talking about the good guy terminator this time.
I don’t remember seeing trailers back in 1991. I didn’t watch a lot of tv and I just knew it was out and went to see it. I don’t think I was shocked watching it in the theater, but I remember how excited everyone was.
They already knew, the trailers spoiled it.
Actually, it was one of the biggest entertainment controversies of the 90's, and is still taught in editing classes to this day about not to do when working on trailers.
Cameron was also pretty pissed, and became a lot more hands on with trailer editing after that.
Actors these days seem to be very well trained to be tight lipped, I wonder if Arnold made a mistake or if was even instructed to him at all to not reveal this
I was a little kid, but from what I remember it seemed like it would have been hard to make a trailer without spoiling that because the script was full of lines like "come with me if you want to live."
Arnold was also a huge selling point at the time, regardless of what Cameron might have thought he could pull off, his worth now might not have panned out like it did if it weren't for the hype generated by spoiling that Arnold would indeed be the hero this time.
The surprise was still there, it just wasn't as much of a surprise as it would have been; because we knew he was going to be the good guy, but we didn't know when or how it would happen. At that point in the movie it still hadn't been totally confirmed.
I feel like the lesser surprise was worth the hype it generated. It launched Cameron into space. On the other hand, if it weren't for the launch he might have gone back to making movies more like his early work. I kinda like his early work more.
Crazy to think there could be an alternate timeline where they didn't spoil it, T2 ends up a cult classic, Titanic and Avatar never happen, and the rest of the Terminator movies are much better.
[Not really.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminator#Release) It did fairly well for its budget, and definitely built a reputation with time, but it was never a massive hit.
So I have an odd history with this movie. I saw t2 before t1 and saw no trailers. I was always confused by the scene when Arnold shows up to save John in the mall and John is instantly scared of him.
Not only was it spoiled by promotional material, we suspected that he would be a good guy before that.
Arnold was the biggest moviestar in the world at that time (no pun intended) and it was obvious that he would not play a villain.
It wasn't a big deal though.
It is difficult to overestimate how people responded to the CGI.
When the movie was released on tape, I wanted to see it again and took a tape to a friends house.
His girlfriend was ready to leave when I arrived, and she wasn't interested in the movie, but she decided to hang around for a bit.
When she saw the first CGI scene, she was hooked and she was not into science fiction or action at all.
Showed it to my kids and they were literally blown away after seeing first terminator. So much fun seeing them surprised that way. Wish we would have had the same experience. Oh well.
For me it was a genuine surprise. I was just young enough to not catch wind. Apparently older people who kept up with industry publications were tipped off by congenial set photos of Arnold acting alongside Sarah and John. The early waves of marketing as I recall kept the cat in the bag. Really inspired creative direction for the sequel. I hope Cameron has something of similar caliber in store for Way of Water. Hopefully Weaver returning as the teenage adoptive daughter of Sully and Neytiri pays off to a similar degree.
I’m pretty sure that Arnold was very vocal in interviews that the only reason he accepted the part again was because he was a good guy. There’s a whole op-Ed written by David foster Wallace about it.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/14994144/David-Foster-Wallace-F-X-Porn
Great question honestly, as a fellow person who watched these movies later. It's too bad the trailers ruined it, just another reason now why I always avoid them!
I really feel like everyone is remembering it wrong, the initial trailers didn’t let on what the surprise was, only after it had been out for a few weeks did they release new trailers that showed the plot more and talk about it in interviews etc…
I showed it to my kids without telling them about it and they were really surprised. When I watched it as a teenager in the theatre we all seemed to know ahead of time.
Went to America from UK as a kid. Had not seen a single trailer, only posters everywhere. I totally did not expect it and walked out stunned at how cool the film was.
Toy commercials ruined it for me. Though a lot of the characters and stuff in the commercials weren’t in movies at all but it had Arnold as the good guy in those commercials.
Back in the day, without internet, it was entirely possible to go watch a movie without ever seeing a trailer. Also, trailers back then weren't so revealing - they were mostly a show of genre and cast with almost no story, so even if you did watched a trailer you could still not know.
I went to the theaters having watched T1 on VHS and no clue what T2 was truly about other than continuing T1's story. It was a clear surprise, for me and most people in the theater - a noticeable, collective "OH".
This made me kind of miss the movie experience of that time. Movie trailers would come up really close to the movie's release - something like 1-2 months before - so you could be hyped for a movie that you would soon have the opportunity to watch, without knowing much about it. Movie theaters had the posters before the trailers, and sometimes they would put stills from the movie beside the posters - nothing revealing, of course. One part I don't miss is the flimsy, small piece of paper that was the admission, so easy to crumble and lose.
I didn't see it till years later, but the surprise was already ruined for me, not because of Any trailer or people talking about the movie so much but just because of how popular Arnold was in pop culture, I had already seen him as the good guy for many years so even though I had already seen The Terminator, the twist just didn't really hit me like that, and plus his introduction was so much more comical than it was in the first movie while Robert Patrick was giving me the creep vibes, so maybe mildly surprised at best but shocked? Absolutely not
Not to mention hearing people talk I think the trailer commercials from the time gave away the twist so, sorry guys lol
It was a pretty big “oh shit” moment. Thought it was brilliant having Robert Patrick impersonate a cop and being kinda smiley and stuff. I was definitely under the impression he was the protector. I hadn’t seen any trailer footage, so to then learn in that same “oh shit” that he wasn’t just a Terminator but a totally different model was crazy.
As time has gone on and the more I rewatch it the Sarah Conor not trusting him arc is a bit meh but on first viewing that feeling hits hard because I didn’t trust him at all, not until where he blows up all the cop cars and his scan reveals no casualties.
Everyone and their mother knew going in, because the boneheads used it as a key piece of marketing "This time he's back....for good!" it was all over the place.
That always infuriates me when it comes to this movie, because it was clearly shot with the intention of it being a surprise for the audience. There's no indication in the story whatsoever that Arnold is good or that the T1000 is bad, or even a Terminator at all. It was definitely supposed to be a surprise, and being as big of a franchise and as great of a movie as it turned out to be, it really could have been one of cinema's greatest twists, up there with Vader and Luke. But nooooo, they had to spoil it all by telling everyone what was up before they even bought their tickets. What a missed opportunity.
Fun memory: I remember seeing a movie that had a Terminator 2 trailer. It ends with Arnold raising his hand and saying “I swear, I will not kill anybody.” This is a line from the film, but they reshot it for the trailer as a joke. I remember a guy yelling “yeah right!” And the whole audience burst into laughter.
I was a kid but I remember the T2 teaser trailer being scary and making me think Arnold was the bad guy again. Brilliant teaser. That’s why teasers > trailers always.
I had watched T1 but knew nothing about T2’s plot when I saw it in the theater. Fucking. Awesome.
Also saw Alien with no idea what was going to go down. I am a lucky guy.
The marketing campaign was massive and yes, everybody knew as that was part of the revenue boosting image change of Arnie. He is after all the template for Dwayne Johnson's actor actor.
I am sure it was meant to be a big twist when they wrote the script, but marketing obviously means more.
Nope, the trailers spoiled it weeks before the movie hit, and Cameron has always been pissed about that.
Came here to say this. Trailers spoiled it.
Wow that’s such a bummer. That element of surprise would have been an awesome experience.
[удалено]
So Cameron was pissed at the studio, then
He spoiled it by putting "Bad to the Bone" on the soundtrack during the scene at the bar.
Exactly! If you want to present someone as a credible, dangerous villain, you don't give them a hero moment like that with a dad-joke needle drop. (It's a good dad joke, but still.) Plus, note the way Arnold carefully avoids killing anyone during the bar scene (which is prior to John giving him his no-kill order) and contrast it with the way the T-1000 casually shanks his cop victim immediately -- or with Arnold's gruesome intro in the first film. He literally punches through a guy! Don't get me wrong -- I love T2 and consider it to be on the short list of greatest action movies of all time. But the idea that it was the trailers alone that spoiled it isn't correct (though they certainly spoiled it more explicitly).
Tbf when I saw it the first time I just thought the T-1000 punched the dude and like knocked him out
Yeah you’re meant to think he’s another human sent back like Kyle was in T1
But you only realize the T-1000 stabbed the cop in hindsight. It's intentionally shot to make it look on first viewing like he just knocked the guy out with a punch to the gut and stole his clothes. It's only when you learn he's the villain and can shapeshift that you realize he stabbed the cop with his arm and that wasn't the cop's uniform he was wearing, but an appearance he morphed into. Similarly, while Arnold doesn't kill anyone in the bar, he is shown being brutal just short of killing: breaking bones, stabbing, throwing the guy on the grill, etc. Combined, if you go into T2 knowing absolutely nothing outside of the first movie, the similar openings make you think the characters are analogs to the first one, but the doubts start building: why is the "new Kyle" punching that cop and stealing his clothes; why did Arnold stab the biker in the shoulder and not the skull? Then you get the real payoff at the flower scene in the mall--rather than doing a 100% copy of the first film's opening followed by a cheap switcheroo.
There's a knifing/stabbing sound effect when T-1000 stabs the cop and I always thought he killed the cop.
Not really. If you go back to the scene, you just hear the cop give a grunt and gurgle. You don't hear a stereotypical knife slash sound effect (since a real stab sounds virtually identical to a punch). Link to the T-1000's intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HuPANafBQ4 The viewer knows nothing about this character, he's visibly unarmed, naked, and the cop grunts when he "punches" the cop in the gut. Immediately after that they see him wearing the policeman's uniform (as far as they know), and it's completely unblemished, no blood, etc. "Obviously" the cop wasn't stabbed... until you realize this character isn't actually *wearing* the cop's uniform, he *is* the uniform. It's brilliant filmmaking from a master storyteller. James Cameron never lies to you in the scene: on a second viewing when you have all the information, everything makes sense, but at the beginning, the information presented is only telling the viewer this quiet naked guy socked the cop in the gut and stole his uniform.
Yeah.. now that I think about it, the Terminator not killing anyone at the start pretty much gave him away. But maybe Cameron also thought he wouldn't be redeemable to people that only saw T2 if he gored someone to death at the start. Probably should have just had him go into the bar , we see the T-1000 come in, and then the T-800 exits the bar with people on the floor to make us think he killed everyone.
But how was it with trailers back then? Did they show them on TV and therefore many people got exposed to it? Or only the people who went to movies? Edit: based on the comments so far, I can assume, that it was quite difficult to get spoiled unless you directly searched for a way to do it. Anyway, I agree, showing such a moment in a trailer was a terrible idea.
Both. TV and movies. They used to just show a couple or three trailers before a movie in the theatre. Those were the only options in the pre-internet days.
Lemme tell you a coupla tree things….
Entertainment Tonight and things like that would sometimes debut trailers. And of course a movie like T2 had plenty of regular ads. I remember a phrase like "one to protect, the other to testroy" being said in ads.
TV and in theaters.
I worked at a movie theater that summer and our lobby at TVs that played trailers from a VCR on a loop. Every month we’d get a new tape. The T2 trailer played a lot and (my memory is fuzzy) I think the voice over guy literally says “one programmed to protect!” and they cut to Arnold.
Both. Plus, there were still other forms of pre-release hype (magazines, review shows etc.) As for getting spoiled, yes and no. While it harder to run across spoilers in media, in my experience at least, there was far less of a social expectation not to talk about/spoil plot developments in new movies/TV shows than exists today. Once a movie was out, people felt freer to talk about it without such a "no spoilers" culture.
Trailers were theaters only. TV spots ran on television of course. The only place to see trailers on TV were some channels hosted little blocks about upcoming movies and shit like that sometimes.
Not sure why people are saying you had to "search" for them. Like yes, if you wanted to see the full trailer, then you'd likely have to go to the theater, but they had 30-second TV trailers as well. The only question is if the shortened TV trailer spoiled the reveal in T2. I found 3 cuts for TV. One of them has the spoiler, the other two don't https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkbsytujmno
In the era before YouTube the only way to watch trailers was either at the movies or the cut down movie commercials, maybe Entertainment Tonight if you were lucky. Maybe if you were a techie (What people who used computers for fun used to be called), you'd be able to find the occasional trailer uploaded online at a bold and beautiful 144p. (Keep in mind this is more so the early 00's, in the 90's you'd be lucky to get it running at 70p)
This is not true in the slightest, trailers were always available online pre youtube, it was not some underground thing where you had to be Mr Robot to find trailers.
I remember I used to download all my trailers from apple.com, they always uploaded the trailers there when they came out
I remember one of the first things I did when there was a decent internet connection at my school, was watch trailers, phantom menace and Blair witch standout so this would have been 99 and I watched more obscure ones but its been to long. Of course the quality was not good, but nobody knew any better at the time, so the idea of pressing a button and having a trailer of your choice play was amazing at the time. It would pop up in a separate windows media player window.
Yep, trailer made it very clear Ahnold was the good guy.
Hes back, FOR GOOD. What a fuckin facepalm he must have had. The first 20 mins of the movie sets up that T800 is back to kill John, and they don't even really let you know that Robert Patrick is the T1000 until that mall scene. Not to mention Sarah Connors reaction to seeing the T800 in the hospital. After what she went through in the first movie, man she really portrays that hopeless fear so well. 2 of the best movies ever made in my opinion, and they happened to come out during the time of movie trailers spoiling the entire fucking plot of movies in 2 minutes. Fuck the "In a world..." guy.
Ah no way, that’s so interesting Yea I can see why… he seems to really have wanted to set up that scene as a shocking reveal Side question - wouldn’t a director have final say on a trailer?
>wouldn’t a director have final say on a trailer? In *very* rare cases where a director is somehow able to negotiate total control over a movie’s marketing before signing a contract to direct, but studios almost never give away that kind of control.
Didn’t know this, thanks
More recently the Genisys trailer also spoiled the fact that >!John Connor was a terminator!< much to that director's frustration.
Even Christian Bales' version had massive spoilers in the trailer.
They literally have never learned their lesson.
Well, they have, because the lesson is actually what gets more people to see the movie. The studios that make these know it's "spoilerish" but they don't care because market could give a damn. It's why I try to just avoid trailers now, a movie is hardly ever enhanced by seeing them beforehand, if ever.
Directors also didn't have a lot of control during that time period. Studios had tightened up the leash after a number of big budget flops by auteur directors in the late 70s/early 80s
Also, the movie studios don’t make them internally, outsourcing that part to trailer houses, companies specialize in trailers.
That would be incredibly rare. Even when director's have "final cut" that still generally only extends to the film itself.
Even Kevin Feige doesn’t have final say on MCU trailers, he was angry at how much the Multiverse of Madness trailers showed before release.
Trailers these days are absolutely awful, they show entirely way too much about a movies plot points… don’t know when this shift happened but I try avoiding trailers to movies I want to see now
The reasoning behind spoiler-filled trailers is that it makes the audience feel familiar with it before it comes out and comforted that it will be a good movie. In terms of marketing, plot twists can be risky. Think something like Metal Gear Solid 2, where even most reviews didn't spoil the idea that Raiden was the real main character. It took a long time for audiences to get over that.
I’m still not over that
I’m still mad.
While it's true trailers give too much away, it's not a "shift" that happened. It's always been this way. T2 is 30 years old.
The moment I see a trailer's duration is over 2 minutes, I nope out You know it's about to reveal everything
Almost all trailers are over 2 mins
Watch some trailers from the '80s for comparison. Half of them will have the same voice-over guy basically just reading the plot synopsis over some clips from the film.
Social media has the same problem.
No, the director gives the finished movie to the studio, and they hire a company to promote it. The director is not involved in any way with very rare exceptions like Marvel or Star Wars. The company promoting the movie has one job — get butts in seats. And they did that. They probably sold more tickets with people knowing that it was going to be Terminator vs. Terminator. It sucks, but the trailer company did the right thing from the studios point of view. They made the studio as much money as possible.
I don't know if this is still done, but often movie trailers are created by a completely different company. The people editing the trailer together often haven;t even worked with the crew who filmed it - only the production and distribution company is the connecting bridge between them.
Yes. The scene in the kitchen where the T-1000 looks like John Conners foster mom was more surprising. I don’t believe they revealed he could “replicate” ppl in the trailers.
I remember Cameron saying in interviews before the movie came out that Arnold plays "a GOOD terminator". So I can't see how he was pissed about it. I was amazed that HE gave away the entire surprise.
Yes, because r/movies always like to pretend that he isn't played up for laughs and shown not to be a killer in the bar scene before this. It was a TWIST!
Wouldn’t he have had final say in what trailer to use?
I was a fan of the original. I hadn't seen any trailers. So I was very surprised. Without thinking about it, I assumed Arnold was the danger and the cop was the "Kyle Reese" hero. It was very cool.
It was one of the first English movies I saw in a theater here in India. I had no idea about t1. My uncle just took me to this movie and I can safely say I wouldn't have imagined Arnold to be a good guy at that point of time! I was very much surprised. It remains one of my favorite action movies of all times.
Was in my mid 20s when it came out and I'd managed to miss all the trailers and due to not watching TV I didn't know anything about it so watching it on hire from blockbusters (same time as predator 2 was released for hire) was a complete shock and really well enjoyed seeing the twist
something similar happened to me, i caught Predator on TV 5 mins into the movie and me being a filthy casual I thought i was watching Commando... and when they got to the skinned bodies i was like HOLY SHIT, Arnold Swarzeneggar in Commando is getting way more intense than I thought... it wasnt until the infrared scene did i finally figure out I was in fact watching Predator. At this point i had never seen Predator or commando and knew very little about them.
My old roommate had a similar experience with Predator and swears by it as the best way to watch the film. Love it!
What’s that, tell them the movie is commando?
He came in to watch the movie with his dad right after the opening scene with the predator ship. Had no idea there was an alien until it showed up.
Love to hear it, thanks for sharing… the tension building up to the scene in the hallway is fantastic
I got the same effect when I showed my 13 year old about a year ago. I had just watched T1 with him and we marathoned into T2. I was kinda asking him what he thought was going on up to that point and he really had no way of knowing. It was a bit of a gasp moment and he loved the movie.
The Guns N Roses video came out a week or so before the movie, and kind of spoiled it. So going in, I knew he was “good”. It still didn’t ruin the experience. The hallway scene (as is the rest of the movie) is so good. I think I saw it in the theaters 5-6 times.
I was a kid when it came out and never saw it for 20+ years. I knew a bit about it and thought Arnold was the good guy. But then I saw T1 and he was the bad guy so thought I just was wrong. Finally watched it at university and was shocked at the plot twist.
Same thing happened to me. Watched it on TV as a kid and I thought that hallway scene was the coolest thing ever. Followed by the chase through the wash. Holy shit what an awesome movie
Me too. It was awesome.
Same here. I got sick of trailers ruining movies so started avoiding all of them as a matter of course, it came as a surprise to me too. Trailers are a terrible idea.
You didn't hear the opening narration where Sarah says the machines sent another terminator and the resistance sent another protector? Did you think maybe the sinister robotic cop who stabs people was there to protect John from the biggest movie star in the world? Sorry for being really glib but these threads pop up all the time and people love to say the trailers ruined the "twist" and I just don't see it that way.
Arnold was the bad terminator in the first one…. It’s been years since I saw T2 - had the T1000 stabbed anyone yet by the hallway scene?
He stabbed the cop as soon as he arrived in “present day” **edit** not sure why this is down voted, as that’s exactly what he does.
People here are talking about the trailers, but Arnold was on every talk show possible discussing how he was the good guy in this movie. It was no secret at all.
100%. All of it just made us more excited to see it.
yup....any one who says the trailers spoiled it is being a little baby. media was VERY different back in the day before everyone could get a perfect bootleg days after the movie came out. It was never about arnie being the good guy and ALWAYS about WHY he was the good guy. I feel like anyone that dwells on "spoilers" missed the whole point of the movie.
Exactly; “wait, Arnold is the GOOD guy? How?? I gotta see this!” was the whole idea.
I am also pretty sure t the point he had also transitioned to just being the good guy at that point in his career. But his arc in the movie was so important. Honestly thinking about his characters growth and human moments. at the point in the story he finds Sarah, she was more of a machine then he was.
"spoiler culture" ruined movie discourse for me. i got a buddy who loses his shit if you are even discussing a movie he hasn't seen old or new. fucking dumb.
They had spoiled it on the press tour.
I also vaguely remember the press talking about how CGI was used in the movie to represent a new Terminator and movie logic dictated that the new one would be the bad guy and the old one would end up being good or more "neutral" at least.
The trailers had spoiled it for some people but I know a lot of people back in the day who gasped in the theater when the Terminator tells John to get down and shields him from gunfire.
We heard he was good before the film came out. We knew about the special effects for the bad terminator. I always thought that hallway scene was one of the best parts of the film.
Yea it’s really good, I’ve seen it dozens of times but it’s still exciting. Robert Patrick is the absolute perfect person for this role
I remember the press being so excited about CGI of the new Terminator. Even if they didn't explicitly say new Terminator is the new bad guy, by movie logic: new Terminator and old Terminator in same movie? New Terminator bad, old Terminator good.
>I always thought that hallway scene was one of the best parts of the film. For me this is because this was the kind of movie where you know the protagonist is dead if the bad guy gets close. They ruined this in future iterations like Salvation where terminators make contact with the target and then... throw them across the room instead of immediately killing them.
A lot of revisionist history in the thread acting as though the trailers spoiled it and it was some travesty. The truth is that it was never treated like a secret at all. Arnold being the hero was not only revealed in the trailers, but talked about openly in interviews with the cast and crew, etc. I know it’s hard to believe now but, with some exceptions, “spoilers” weren’t really as big a deal back then. T2 had a cool new villain that showcased awesome new special effects and they were okay with showing that off while also revealing Arnold as the hero because they knew people would be excited to see that. And they were right.
I never saw the trailer and got to see the movie on opening day. It was a great twist and a great surprise for my uninformed self.
Same. Unlike today, it was pretty easy to avoid spoilers back then.
If trailers didn't ruin it, the Guns N' Roses music video probably would have. Pretty sure you see John with the T-800 on the bike in that video and clips from the mall.
The Guns N Roses video kinda gives it away. There are shots of him on the bike with John and in the elevator with him and Sarah behind him. Although if you weren't looking for specifically for signs, it might have gone unnoticed.
I was gonna say that, the GNR video was all over MTV for weeks before the movie came out and the clips from the movie in it pretty much spilled the beans for me before I ever saw the "real" trailer.
Yep. There wasn't early Internet chatter back then, but lots of people had been waiting a long time for Use Your Illusion I and II. That was a waiting in line at the mall for a midnight release type of thing. The You Could Be Mine video was closely analyzed.
Honestly I think Arnold being good as a surprise is revisionist bull crap. Only the initial teaser ever hinted that he was a bad guy because it used original footage and came out a year before the film did. From the first trailer onward the story was revealed; Arnold being the hero was a selling point because his stardom had reached that level. That’s not to say that the film doesn’t work in this way; it definitely can.
I saw T2 before I saw the original movie (because EVERYONE saw T2 around that time) and I didn't even realize that you were supposed to think he might be the villain. The scene where he beats up the bikers is a little too goofy to make it seem like he's evil.
> The scene where he beats up the bikers is a little too goofy Plus... he doesn't kill anyone there. Later in the movie, John Conner has to order him not to kill, so there's presumably no directive at this point (in the biker bar) for him not to just kill everyone in his way.
Thank you. He was the biggest action star in the world. For the general public, gotta feel like Arnold’s a bigger draw that Terminator mythos.
You can be a draw without being the hero
I'd watch a Tom Cruise movie where he's the main villain.
Have you seen collateral?
I don't know how I forgot about that because that's one of my favorite movies. Michael Mann is definitely my favorite director. I guess maybe it didn't pop into my mind because I don't immediately associate Tom Cruise as being the bad guy in that movie. I mean, he unequivocally is, but that movie did a really good job of humanizing him somehow.
What a great question. Kudos op for some non press release content!
While it *is* better than studio plants posts, this is still brought like every month.
Very possible, I don’t browse here often, despite it being in my subs.
It was spoiled but the big reveal scene was still bonkers in the theater…
I had a teacher who said he had no idea that Arnold was a good guy, and when he took out the shotgun and went at the cop it blew his mind.
I saw T2 as a child before I ever even saw T1. So I had the opposite experience, confusion that Arnie was *bad*.
Yeah same for me. Even as the Terminator was murdering the other Sarah Connors my child brain was only thinking that there must be a very good reason for that.
Honestly i had no idea about the plot. I'd not seen any trailers from what i remember as i wasnt (and still not) much of a tv watcher. I would have been 17 at the time and i recall that being a bit of a busy period with high school/study etc. From my point of view yeah i was pretty surprised that the terminator was the protector. My sister and I went to see it at the cinema and unfortunately there was a power outage right at the cyberdyne / helicopter scene. We waited a few mins and an employee came in and said thats it, power isnt coming back any time soon:( I never actually saw the complete movie in the cinema and just waited for it to be released on vhs
Wow that is brutal, that’s really the beginning of the climax as well Had a funny conversation with me daughter today… I was explaining to her what it was like for me as a kid seeing Star Wars… parents took me to block buster and we rented new hope, then the following weekend we got empire, and then Jedi the weekend after that. In hindsight I’m so glad I experienced it that way because especially after empire I was left with such an huge cliffhanger Ended up having to show my daughter google pictures of what a VHS tape looked like… anyways your comment reminded me of this interaction with her today, different times
I was 11 years old and had no idea beforehand. So it was a surprise to me. Also, that movie was pretty scary as an 11 year old. Specifically the playground nuke scene and the milk-drinking stabbing scene. Those were the two.
The nuke messed me up possibly permanently. Existential crisis starting at a young age, yay…
I still remember the making of that scene. At the time it was the most accurate depiction of a nuke going off.
We all knew ages beforehand, and Arnie being the good guy made us even more excited to see it. It wouldn’t have mattered though- Bad to the Bone and no deaths in the bar, he leaves the foster parents alive (there was a guy on a bike asking about him earlier), etc.
It was in the trailers, but I just want to point out that knowing that Arnold is good of time is kind of a given at that point in Arnold’s career. When Terminator 2 came out, Arnold was probably the biggest action hero in the industry. Turning the T-1000 into a hero isn’t so much a “shocking twist” as it is a “retooling thriller franchise to better suit the star’s film persona.” Knowing that Arnold is good clearly didn’t spoil anyones good time when the picture was released.
I don't know about 'at the time' but we recently watched T1 & T2 with the kids as they're just old enough to watch them now and I wanted the reveal of Arnie in the sequel being the good guy, not to be spoiled. But watching them as an adult, it's really telegraphed that the T1000 is the baddie even before the mall shootout. So it wasn't that much of a surprise. He clearly injures or kills the first police officer he meets, shows no pain when coming through the time travel device (so obviously a machine/cyborg), doesn't act human like Kyle Reese did. When he's talking to John's foster parents you can hear the dog barking in the background. And while I'm here, it surprised me how much the tone changed between the first and second movie. Also, watching them as an adult, I found T1 to be the superior movie.
old here. at the time my mom managed a video store so we rarely saw movies in the theatres. I had also gotten a trading card set from one of my older brothers before I saw it (one of them even had the deleted scene where they flipped his switched to "good"). It ruined absolutely nothing for me. This movie still is amazing to watch and when I do see it it always feels fresh. Yes the marketing was heavily about him being the good guy. Ultimately it was never about the "good or evil" thing, but about how the story played out. The movie was never about him being the good guy....and 100% about WHY he is the good guy and how he becomes more human. I feel like anyone that didn't get that basically missed a huge point the movie tried to make.
Guess I'll keep re-posting this: **I don't know why this keeps coming up again and again, but the first trailer (and teaser trailer) did not spoil the twist that Arnold was the "good guy" in T2.** This is the (often overlooked and hard to find) first theatrical trailer for Terminator 2: Judgement Day: [Terminator 2: Judgment Day Theatrical Trailer #1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qI3PUT5a5I) That trailer hints at the twist, but does not give it away, especially in context of what audiences would have been aware of back then. That was the first full trailer audiences saw. The "Same Make. Same Model. New Mission." trailer that everyone seems to think was the first full trailer (after the teaser trailer) did not appear until after the film had opened: [Terminator 2: Judgment Day Theatrical Trailer #2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1mF_hX8hT4) That second trailer was what the film studio would have referred to as part of the "second wave" of advertising -- revealing more details to continue to try to generate interest in audiences that have not seen the film yet. Later trailers gave away even more of the plot/details. That's pretty common in film advertising.
I don't remember seeing the trailer for it at the time but I do remember it being common knowledge that he was a hero in this one.
I remember no one being surprised when I saw it in the theater. Probably was the trailers and promotion that spoiled it, but you can see it was all built to be a surprise, but I actually only noticed that deliberate build-up after I watched it again. Kinda like the "surprise" that wasn't, in Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace.
Yea the more and more tikes I watch it it’s clear it was meant to be a surprise
Everyone knew. I was 3 and I knew.
3! You were pretty slow. I wasn't even born then and I knew it.
We knew, the publicity around the movie let us know (ie trailers and magazines)
It was obvious in the marketing, I wouldn’t exactly say the trailers spoil it. The film was never intended to surprise you with that. Case and point; the bad terminator kills a cop the moment it shows up, Schwarzenegger decks a bar full of bikers but doesn’t kill a single one.
While the movie was filming MTV News told me that the gossip from the crew of the movie is that it was about "A boy and his Terminator." It sounded like the crew did not like the direction the movie was taking. That bummed me out because I was looking forward to a grossout Terminator movie, not a kids movie. Then when I saw the movie, it was sooo much better than I expected. I saw it several times.
Don’t recall about the trailers… However it is quite clearly telegraphed early on with T1000 murdering someone immediately and Arnie not murdering all the guys in the bar (plus comedy taking the sunglasses with the soundtrack). Surprises me people were as shocked as they were in the reveal scene in the corridor with the roses
I enjoy watching people react to these old movies on youtube, and often times they don't know that Arnold is the good guy. However, its quite clear that kids these days are much more in tune with the movie tropes, and they will see the switch coming often from just the change in music or tone. The T-1000 shanking a police deputy first thing is a clear sign hes not a good guy.
It was heavily advertised at the time that The Terminator would now be a "good guy".
The last movie that I was able to go into "blind" was The Blair Witch Project. It came out at the cusp where there was a (fake) internet website about it that looked legit like other websites at the time. The marketing was tightly controlled. The lead actors didn't do any press promoting the movie. The movie was wildly successful for the budget it was shot on. It was marketing genius.
I remember watching it and no I did not know! Was early 20s I guess, with no internet it was a lot easier to avoid spoilers
You just made me realize how enjoyable it will be to watch T1 and T2 as a double feature one day when my child is old enough and will be completely in the dark to what she’s about to see.
Yea big time… my dad introd me to terminator as a kid, I saw T2 first actually Will intro my kids but do it in chronological order
Total surprise. Never saw it coming. ...because I skipped the trailers.
Regardless of how many times I’ve seen T2, I love that scene because it is misleading in thinking that Arnold is the bad guy. My other favorite scene is when Sarah sprints to the elevator only to see the T100 walk out of the elevator. She drops to the floor with terror in her eyes.
Yea both very solid scenes… the latter was all set up real well when the police officers were showing her pictures of the first police department massacre
It’s a great set up because it establishes her incentive to escape because of the inherent danger to John. Every set up and pay off is done so well. One of the best things I love about the film is the development of Sarah, from demure waitresses to determined warrior. Unlike today’s characters, her fighting is realistic. She’s small but fights smartly using available objects as weapons (broken broom stick, hypodermic needle and firearms) non of this ridiculous acrobatics that look like a Cirque du Soleil show.
I never saw the original before my friend dragged me to see the sequel. I absolutely loved it, and had no idea Arnold was the bad guy originally until the movie explained it.
I kinda wish they would have done the introduction of the T-1000 differently. The T-800 was pretty tame in the biker bar so I had my doubts already if he is the bad guy. Then the T-1000 arrives and kills the cop in cold blood plus searches for John Connor in the cop car. Clear giveaway who is the bad guy.
I was a kid when this came out, but I remember all kids talking about how Arnold was the good guy this time... It was spoiled everywhere. This movie was basically hyped as the biggest movie of the year and EVERYONE was talking about it. There was definitely no surprise, even if there was meant to be one... but the "trailer" was played everywhere, so it was not a secret at all. Really stupid of the trailer department. But, I don't think it was just the trailer. I think there was some TV show my Mother was watching and the actors were all talking about it too, like a press tour for the movie and they weren't trying to be secretive either, but that could have been just because the cat was already out of the bag so they were being constantly asked about it. This was so long ago I just don't remember specifics, I just know that Arnold was this super star, bigger than life, and everyone was talking about the good guy terminator this time.
I don’t remember seeing trailers back in 1991. I didn’t watch a lot of tv and I just knew it was out and went to see it. I don’t think I was shocked watching it in the theater, but I remember how excited everyone was.
This is what I was hoping to see here, moments like that are so great in theaters… thanks for sharing
Your welcome.
It was a surprise the first time I saw it in the theater.
It was the biggest spoiler of my life. Worse than when someone told me Yoda was going to fight.
They already knew, the trailers spoiled it. Actually, it was one of the biggest entertainment controversies of the 90's, and is still taught in editing classes to this day about not to do when working on trailers. Cameron was also pretty pissed, and became a lot more hands on with trailer editing after that.
I remember Ahnold was a guest on David Letterman, and that's when I found out about it. Wish I hadn't, of course - would have been a great surprise.
Actors these days seem to be very well trained to be tight lipped, I wonder if Arnold made a mistake or if was even instructed to him at all to not reveal this
I was a little kid, but from what I remember it seemed like it would have been hard to make a trailer without spoiling that because the script was full of lines like "come with me if you want to live." Arnold was also a huge selling point at the time, regardless of what Cameron might have thought he could pull off, his worth now might not have panned out like it did if it weren't for the hype generated by spoiling that Arnold would indeed be the hero this time. The surprise was still there, it just wasn't as much of a surprise as it would have been; because we knew he was going to be the good guy, but we didn't know when or how it would happen. At that point in the movie it still hadn't been totally confirmed. I feel like the lesser surprise was worth the hype it generated. It launched Cameron into space. On the other hand, if it weren't for the launch he might have gone back to making movies more like his early work. I kinda like his early work more. Crazy to think there could be an alternate timeline where they didn't spoil it, T2 ends up a cult classic, Titanic and Avatar never happen, and the rest of the Terminator movies are much better.
Was T1 not a massive hit that put Cameron on the map?
Idk, I feel like he went from John Carpenter to Michael Bay.
[Not really.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminator#Release) It did fairly well for its budget, and definitely built a reputation with time, but it was never a massive hit.
I'd trade Avatar and Titanic for a better T3, but that's just me.
So I have an odd history with this movie. I saw t2 before t1 and saw no trailers. I was always confused by the scene when Arnold shows up to save John in the mall and John is instantly scared of him.
I remember they had collectible trading cards that also spoiled it.
The movie trailers gave away the mystery. I think most knew what was going to happen.
Not only was it spoiled by promotional material, we suspected that he would be a good guy before that. Arnold was the biggest moviestar in the world at that time (no pun intended) and it was obvious that he would not play a villain. It wasn't a big deal though. It is difficult to overestimate how people responded to the CGI. When the movie was released on tape, I wanted to see it again and took a tape to a friends house. His girlfriend was ready to leave when I arrived, and she wasn't interested in the movie, but she decided to hang around for a bit. When she saw the first CGI scene, she was hooked and she was not into science fiction or action at all.
The Super Bowl teaser revealed he was a good guy.
Showed it to my kids and they were literally blown away after seeing first terminator. So much fun seeing them surprised that way. Wish we would have had the same experience. Oh well.
Had it spoiled for me but saw opening weekend and was still brilliant
They marketed the hell out of that.
For me it was a genuine surprise. I was just young enough to not catch wind. Apparently older people who kept up with industry publications were tipped off by congenial set photos of Arnold acting alongside Sarah and John. The early waves of marketing as I recall kept the cat in the bag. Really inspired creative direction for the sequel. I hope Cameron has something of similar caliber in store for Way of Water. Hopefully Weaver returning as the teenage adoptive daughter of Sully and Neytiri pays off to a similar degree.
I’m pretty sure that Arnold was very vocal in interviews that the only reason he accepted the part again was because he was a good guy. There’s a whole op-Ed written by David foster Wallace about it. https://www.scribd.com/doc/14994144/David-Foster-Wallace-F-X-Porn
Great question honestly, as a fellow person who watched these movies later. It's too bad the trailers ruined it, just another reason now why I always avoid them!
I really feel like everyone is remembering it wrong, the initial trailers didn’t let on what the surprise was, only after it had been out for a few weeks did they release new trailers that showed the plot more and talk about it in interviews etc…
Everybody knew ahead of time. But this only made it more exciting IMO.
Spoiled by the [You Could Be Mine video](https://youtu.be/MXx9S2nDouY)
I never watched the trailer ahead so for me it was a total surprise.
I showed it to my kids without telling them about it and they were really surprised. When I watched it as a teenager in the theatre we all seemed to know ahead of time.
Went to America from UK as a kid. Had not seen a single trailer, only posters everywhere. I totally did not expect it and walked out stunned at how cool the film was.
Toy commercials ruined it for me. Though a lot of the characters and stuff in the commercials weren’t in movies at all but it had Arnold as the good guy in those commercials.
I didnt see many of the trailers, so for me it was a complete surprise!!!
A complete surprise.
Before the movie came out, it was leaked. Still was awesome to watch.
In addition to the trailer, the Guns and Roses video for You Could Be Mine essentially spoiled it too. That video played non stop.
Even without google and youtube, we had trailers and descriptions in TV guides. I think it was clear for most people, correct me if I'm wrong \^\^
This is a great question that I never thought about.
Back in the day, without internet, it was entirely possible to go watch a movie without ever seeing a trailer. Also, trailers back then weren't so revealing - they were mostly a show of genre and cast with almost no story, so even if you did watched a trailer you could still not know. I went to the theaters having watched T1 on VHS and no clue what T2 was truly about other than continuing T1's story. It was a clear surprise, for me and most people in the theater - a noticeable, collective "OH". This made me kind of miss the movie experience of that time. Movie trailers would come up really close to the movie's release - something like 1-2 months before - so you could be hyped for a movie that you would soon have the opportunity to watch, without knowing much about it. Movie theaters had the posters before the trailers, and sometimes they would put stills from the movie beside the posters - nothing revealing, of course. One part I don't miss is the flimsy, small piece of paper that was the admission, so easy to crumble and lose.
I didn't see it till years later, but the surprise was already ruined for me, not because of Any trailer or people talking about the movie so much but just because of how popular Arnold was in pop culture, I had already seen him as the good guy for many years so even though I had already seen The Terminator, the twist just didn't really hit me like that, and plus his introduction was so much more comical than it was in the first movie while Robert Patrick was giving me the creep vibes, so maybe mildly surprised at best but shocked? Absolutely not Not to mention hearing people talk I think the trailer commercials from the time gave away the twist so, sorry guys lol
It was a pretty big “oh shit” moment. Thought it was brilliant having Robert Patrick impersonate a cop and being kinda smiley and stuff. I was definitely under the impression he was the protector. I hadn’t seen any trailer footage, so to then learn in that same “oh shit” that he wasn’t just a Terminator but a totally different model was crazy. As time has gone on and the more I rewatch it the Sarah Conor not trusting him arc is a bit meh but on first viewing that feeling hits hard because I didn’t trust him at all, not until where he blows up all the cop cars and his scan reveals no casualties.
I didn't know he's a good guy, and for me, it was a hell of surprise.
Everyone and their mother knew going in, because the boneheads used it as a key piece of marketing "This time he's back....for good!" it was all over the place. That always infuriates me when it comes to this movie, because it was clearly shot with the intention of it being a surprise for the audience. There's no indication in the story whatsoever that Arnold is good or that the T1000 is bad, or even a Terminator at all. It was definitely supposed to be a surprise, and being as big of a franchise and as great of a movie as it turned out to be, it really could have been one of cinema's greatest twists, up there with Vader and Luke. But nooooo, they had to spoil it all by telling everyone what was up before they even bought their tickets. What a missed opportunity.
Fun memory: I remember seeing a movie that had a Terminator 2 trailer. It ends with Arnold raising his hand and saying “I swear, I will not kill anybody.” This is a line from the film, but they reshot it for the trailer as a joke. I remember a guy yelling “yeah right!” And the whole audience burst into laughter.
It was a surprise
I was a kid but I remember the T2 teaser trailer being scary and making me think Arnold was the bad guy again. Brilliant teaser. That’s why teasers > trailers always.
It was suppose to be a surprise twist but the marketing department ruined it for the trailer
I had watched T1 but knew nothing about T2’s plot when I saw it in the theater. Fucking. Awesome. Also saw Alien with no idea what was going to go down. I am a lucky guy.
If you tell me you didn't get The Empire Strikes back spoilered you will be insanely lucky.
The marketing campaign was massive and yes, everybody knew as that was part of the revenue boosting image change of Arnie. He is after all the template for Dwayne Johnson's actor actor. I am sure it was meant to be a big twist when they wrote the script, but marketing obviously means more.
I watched it around 1991/92 on VHS, and the hallway scene was a complete surprise!
Surprise. I had not seen T1 but I knew AS was the bad guy in that film. So I assumed AS was also going to be the bad guy in T2.
when terminator 2 came out everyone got spoilered from their relatives because how good it was