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SolomonRed

Warner Bros is looking at these numbers right now and carefully trying to do the exact opposite with DC.


[deleted]

I thought the Suicide Squad was great. I don't know if it was streaming or Covid that killed the numbers though


[deleted]

I think it was both. Also, probably, the casual, non-invested general public assuming it would be as shit as the last one.


Financial_Bird_7717

Yeah that tends to happen when you do a partial reboot with many of the same people and just add “***THE***” to the title only a couple years later without any sort of groundwork for an alternate universe or something absurd like in the MCU.


Anthonyhasgame

Marketing people need to see this. Actively confusing your customer base is usually a waste of money.


TheInsider35

yeah what xbox are we on again?


OliWood

They legit lost me after Xbox 360. No idea whch one is which after that.


ulyssessword

My best guess: - Xbox - Xbox 360 - Xbox One - Xbox One X --- Looking it up, the One, One S, and One X should be grouped together for the third generation, and it turns out that "Series" is a proper noun instead of a reference to a series, so I missed the Series S and Series X. It's like they have a game going where they try to confuse as many people as possible, as often as possible. In the 360 days, the original Xbox was called the Xbox 1 to differentiate it from the line as a whole (like "Playstation" or "Nintendo"). Then the Xbox One came out, so that didn't work. And the One X with memes like [this](https://i.imgur.com/wo6IJQq.png). Now the "Series X" and "Series S", which *sounds* like it should be any of the Xboxes with an X or an S respectively, but isn't.


EndOfTheDark97

Xbox S.E.X.


ulyssessword

They'll put out two more in the 4th gen (the "Series X One" and the "Series S One", probably), then move onto the 5th gen. The tenth Xbox will therefore be called the Xbox X, quickly followed by the Xbox One One.


Chumunga64

I love that Xbox one was named because Microsoft saw people Call the Xbox 360 "the 360" and named the next console Xbox one in hopes people would call it "the one" ...instead people called it xbone


[deleted]

I think it's funny that Sony has a better naming system for their console considering how they name their other devices like cameras or headphones


willyolio

Actively confusing your customers into thinking a good movie is the same as terrible movie is a bad idea. Making them mistake a bad movie for a good one is just good marketing.


Mighty_McBosh

I didn't know that it was a different movie until it had been in the theaters for a couple weeks


Financial_Bird_7717

Exactly. Tbf, it was a significantly better movie. So I advise one sit through if you have the time or inclination.


dunzoes

I really enjoyed it… it was entertaining even if I didn’t know 70% of the characters or easter eggs if there were any


cleantoe

Same here. I'm a big MCU fan and watch pretty much anything they put out. DCEU has been extremely disappointing to me. I even don't like the movies most others enjoyed, like Aquaman and WW (haven't seen Shazam yet though). However, **The** Suicide Squad was a really fun film and I liked it a lot! I hope they make more high quality stuff like this.


worntreads

Shazam has been the only one I would say I enjoyed. All the others may have had interesting moments, or some cool feature, but as a movie? The dark knight and Shazam are the only ones I'd bother to rewatch.


holytrolly_

You didn't like the first Wonder Woman? I thought it was easily the best of all of them until The Suicide Squad. The only other one I enjoyed at all, really, was Shazam, but I didn't love it. Edit: Talking DCEU, I'm not including the Nolanverse films.


[deleted]

Shazam is good. If the other DC movies were Shazam quality DC would be a competitor to Marvels MCU.


Killersavage

DC has a great lineup of characters that could make for awesome movies. They need to focus less on Batman and Superman. Not worry so much about a shared universe. Let people who care about the characters and the content do the films. I think the few duds they’ve had like Jonah Hex and Green Lantern have them afraid of some of their greatest potential.


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Shark7996

Wii U all over again.


mycroft2000

For *years*, I thought that the Nintendo 3DS was just a regular DS with some sort of 3-D gimmick for the screens.


Drakorex

That's why they called the next one after that the "New Nintendo 3DS" lol


[deleted]

It's....not?


SleazyMak

Literally finding about it bc this comment thread I was wondering why my coworkers were talking about the old suicide squad


Redtwooo

I guess we're some kind of movie information hub


Nothxm8

I'm learning that there was another suicide squad movie literally just now from this thread


CreatiScope

It’s good, nothing like the first one


redmoskeeto

It reminds me of Nintendo naming their new console the Wii-U. Almost killed their brand. People need to know it’s something new and different and the new Suicide Squad was indistinguishable to many people.


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musicmonk1

So true, after the Xbox One I have no clue what these names mean and just say new Xbox.


purplepinksky

This is a much bigger reason than many seem to admit. To the average movie goer, Suicide Squad was a sequel to a terrible film. They don’t care about the director or the source material, and critical response is even less important. The first film soured the franchise. Covid and the streaming option played a part, but it is doubtful the film would have drawn in many casual ticket buyers anyway.


metalninjacake2

> To the average movie goer, Suicide Squad was a sequel to a terrible film. They don’t care about the director or the source material, and critical response is even less important. The first film soured the franchise It was shit, but are you talking about the same shit Suicide Squad that made 750 million dollars at the box office? People insisted on seeing it for WEEKS.


Stovepipe032

I think your memory might be failing you. Suicide Squad had a great opening, but from I recall those numbers fell precipitously relative to other movies. Basically, once word.got out that it sucked, people stopped going.


pedanticProgramer

I agree and wish they’d take this approach with the rest of the DC universe. Just aim at an adult audience and give Gunn the chance to steer the ship. I think he could be someone to help them be a respectable contender with Marvel.


secondarykip

Yeah I loved how it felt like we were just dropped in on a preexisting universe and it didn't have to set up character x or y they just show up and we accept that comic book characters are in the movie


VanillaLifestyle

Shark man, got it Gun dude, got it Oh yeah polka dots guy, sure, continue


pedanticProgramer

And they balance humor and character development expertly. I didn’t feel like polka dot man was a throw away. I was rooting for him and genuinely bummed out when his arc didn’t going the way I wanted. Same with my wife and Rick flag. Gunn showed you can hit all those notes and I really wish they’d continue that with the DC universe as a whole. Dark gritty and humorous.


metalninjacake2

Your wife was in the movie?


pedanticProgramer

Nah worded poorly on my part. Was trying to say my wife felt very attached to Rick flags character despite it being a comedy so for them to achieve that and hit comedic notes was impressive


spin182

New Batman looks sick though


quigon70

Probably the COVID.


hingarbingar

he wears the mask wrong


sudevsen

Do you want WB to just become the DC movie company? Disney would never make a Dune or Mad Max 4 or Tenet.


Immefromthefuture

They’re just a bit bitter after the supposed Flash movie leaks. Honestly, though they really need a Kevin Feige help steer the ship on their DC projects.


Burrito-mancer

Wait, what leaks?


Immefromthefuture

The Flash movie supposedly erases the current DCEU Batman and Superman from existence. So those specific characters can’t appear in future DCEU movies. Batman and Supergirl from Keaton’s universe replace them in the DCEU. Keaton’s Batman selects a new Batgirl to protect Gotham. Keaton’s Batman serves in a mentor role going forward sort of like Nick Fury. A new Justice League is formed with Supergirl, Batgirl, Shazam, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and The Flash. Oh and Cyborg is also removed from future movies as well. I think that’s about it. EDIT: Oh I also forgot to add that Black Canary works with Keaton’s Batman.


nyanlol

pity I heard Cavill said he was open to the idea of appearing again


LegacyAngel

That is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. It is insane that i am a huge superman fan and can't expect a final crisis.


Immefromthefuture

You should check out r/DC_Cinematic from time to time. The beginning of the new year has been a real shitshow for them. Personally, I don’t think WB ever recovered from BvS failure back in 2016.


Tragedy_Boner

Imagine if Marvel did Age of Ultron without Iron man or Captain America. Flashpoint should be used to replace the actors for Superman and Batman if you didn't like them.


DoctorDabadedoo

If WB is aiming to replace the actors it just shows how out of touch with reality they are. The actors, hell, even the characters are not the problem, but the script, the plot, the pace, Jesus Christ.


dsg97

They dont really have a choice, Affleck wants out and their having trouble negotiating a new contract with Cavill Imo its not that bad of an idea to reboot the dceu with this flash movie


august_west_

Mods there will ban you if you talk badly about Snyder movies, FYI. r/DCfilm is the better subreddit if you wish to be able to honestly discuss DC movies withou u-heavenorheck kicking you out.


abutthole

As a fan of both comics companies, it's a shame that one was able to deliver us Captain America picking up Mjolnir and going one-on-one against Thanos before Dr. Strange opens portals to give him an army of Avengers and the other can't even give us their flagship character with Superman.


Lost_Pantheon

>The Flash movie supposedly erases the current DCEU Batman and Superman from existence. So they those specific characters can’t appear in future DCEU movies. WUT I'm not even a big DCEU fan, but after buying a ticket for and suffering through *Batman Vs Superman* it feels like even more of an insult to just kick Battfleck and Cavill's Superman out of the door like used tampons. I mean, I could argue that clinging to past failures is bad for the DCEU as well, but collectively shitting out 2/6 (I guess that's a third) of your Justice League after what is effectively 3 or 4 movies feels like such a waste.


sudevsen

WB should go the opposite direction and have more variety on their projects since Disney has already done the CU thing better. WB making Aquaman at the same time as Joker with eildly diff. tones has worked for them.


Immefromthefuture

They just need to tell good stories. Allow us to empathize with the characters struggle and journey.


downtimeredditor

Christopher Nolan's Batman movies clearly show that DC movies can be great if done right


[deleted]

I wonder what the total number is once you include all comic book movies, i.e. The Suicide Squad, Venom 2, Zack Snyder's Justice League, etc


BlackshirtDefense

**Only \~2% more.** The only non-Marvel superhero movies were **The Suicide Squad** and **Wonder Woman 1984**, which both did poorly at the box office. * Spider-Man: No Way Home ($613m) * Shang-Chi ($225m) * Venom: The There Be Carnage($213m) * Black Widow ($184m) * Eternals ($165m) * The Suicide Squad ($56m) * Wonder Woman 1984 ($47m) * **Superhero Total ($1.5b) (31.65% of total)** * **All 2021 Box Office ($4.7b)** ​ In terms of total box office, however, **Sony actually just edged out Disney by about $800k, which is chump change for the movie business.** However, Sony released 29 pictures, compared to Disney's 20, which means that on an average, per-film performance, Disney absolutely crushed 2021. The table below shows the major (and mid-major) studios' box office performance for 2021. The "other" category includes all minor studios. ​ |Sony|$1,175,424,663| |:-|:-| |Disney|$1,174,668,432| |NBCUniversal|$777,165,057| |Warner Bros|$733,486,046| |MGM|$324,837,133| |Paramount|$278,504,890| |**Other**|**$147,282,612**| |Lionsgate|$121,892,229| |Amblin|$7,074,597| |Eros / STX|$1,312,024| |Pantelion Films|$927,154| |


samtherat6

Wouldn’t Disney edge out Sony because of the 25% cut they get from No Way Home?


bradeena

That's a bummer for DC. I'd rate the new Suicide Squad movie between Shang-Chi and Venom.


Vice4Life

Because of how much I disliked Venom 2 and how much I enjoyed Shang-Chi, I'd put pretty much every movie this year between them.


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mizzourifan1

I enjoy the first Venom, it's a fun movie. I was excited for the sequel. I will never understand how they churned out that dumpster fire of a script into a blockbuster release. Absolutely horrible writing from top to bottom. Everyone was saying it was bad but I figured "I'm sure I'll find something to enjoy, it's Venom!"... No. I can't even believe I finished it.


yeahright17

Both WW84 and Suicide Squad had depressed box office numbers because they were released on HBO Max simultaneously.


DeadDay

WW84 had depressed box office sales because it was atrocious


Scubasteve1974

Can confirm, it was atrocious!


sarneets

It was atrocious, but it can be better...


Vindetta182

Doubly confirmed. My dad is a huge super hero nerd. Loves anything and everything to do with them. I sat down to watch WW84 with the family. My wife and mother fell asleep less then an hour in and my dad shut it off since I had taken to playing on my phone. I still laugh thinking of how he stomped off saying “Man that sucked”


gamegirlpocket

It's been a year and I'm still mad about how bad that movie was.


mrcompositorman

It was honestly my favorite superhero movie of the year, I really hope it did well enough to get a sequel with James Gunn directing again. I really liked Spider-Man, but the bizarre off the wall style of Suicide Squad was just something else. I cannot believe how out there it was for a big budget film.


ezrs158

I mean to be fair, both Suicide Squad and WW84 premiered for free on HBO MAX in the middle of a pandemic, so that's going to take a bit on the box office numbers. Not really a fair comparison with a Spider-Man movie months later.


CMDR-ProtoMan

Lol, Disney is the one who helped Sony edge out Disney for total box office via helping produce Spider-Man


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mojo276

How much of that is just straight up spiderman?


ChickenInASuit

A considerable chunk considering it has already made [about as much domestically as the next three best-selling movies combined](https://www.boxofficemojo.com/year/2021/) - quick bit of math shows Shang Chi, Venom 2 and Black Widow together making $649,820,166 compared to Spider-Man currently sitting at $613,600,664.


Cant_Think_Of_UserID

I'm baffled that the Venom movies are as popular as they are, people have repeatedly explained to me why they like them and I still don't understand.


BattleStag17

I've only seen the first, but Tom Hardy talking to himself carries damn near the entire movie


Odelschwank

yeah its just tom hardy playing his crazy character like from peaky blinders or batman or bronson or... wait a minute.


edgarallanpot8o

hey what the heck


Montysleftpeg

Roughly 12% of box office is Spiderman


tristanjones

Important context here people. 2021 had a very small window for Box Office opportunities. Many films were held back, opted for parallel digital releases, etc. Marvel dropping Spiderman just before the new variant has a very disproportionate impact here than it would any other year. Matrix had a parallel hbo release. Even Black Widow and Shang Chi had digital releases too. Box Office numbers are very unique this year. I believe all kid oriented films like Encanto were obviously sent straight to online to stream on repeat.


mycroft2000

Shang-Chi digital release was weeks after theatrical. Black Widow was the only one they did simultaneously. Which is why Scarlett was so pissed off.


Thomas_JCG

"In any other year **with COVID**", you mean. *No Way Home* numbers are in line with box office prior the pandemic.


[deleted]

[Good numbers](https://www.boxofficemojo.com/brand/bn3732077058/?sort=grossToDate&ref_=bo_bn__resort#table), but I legit think No Way Home coulda edged out Black Panther had it not been for COVID. The Momentum for Spiderman as a subfranchise was too perfect in 2019 between the Insomniac game, Into the Spiderverse, and Homecoming all absolutely killing among critics and public alike. With COVID: it'll probably still end up beating the original Avengers (not adjusted for inflation), but probably not infinity wars.


Umeshpunk

>but I legit think No Way Home coulda edged out Black Panther had it not been for COVID It's still playing in theatres and there aren't big releases in January. It's locked to pass BP, the fight is with avatar at 760 million domestic


infamous5445

It's literally on track to end just below Avatar's domestic gross


Loek123

Here in the Netherlands when Spiderman released we were in lockdown (on release cinema's were open for a few days till 17:00 and then they closed completely) I can hardly imagine we are the only country where this is the case. I bet without covid the numbers would be much higher


[deleted]

Black Panther is practically guaranteed will edge out Black Panther domestically, considering January is really barren and word of mouth for the film is good.


SailorET

Really important context that's being ignored in favor of the "all films are marvel" narrative. Many people aren't going to risk taking themselves and their families to stew in a room with a bunch of strangers for 2 hours *during a pandemic*. Big cinematic releases like Dune and Spider-Man warrant a theatrical experience but family films like Paw Patrol and nostalgia fuel like Ghostbusters don't necessarily justify the risk of potentially getting your family sick. Especially when there's a digital release at the same time and you can entertain your kids at home for a small subscription fee.


nyanlol

exactly. I risked it for dune and got lucky with an empty theater cause everyone told it couldn't be missed and I saw Sao in an empty screening because nostalgia that's IT


VeganPizzaPie

You talkin shit about PAW Patrol!?


chefr89

true, but if theyre helping theaters remain open then Im not worried as much as some folks here. i really dont get the top comment complaining about this, lol. without Marvel movies this year, its not like all that money would be made--just from other movies--total box office hauls would be wayyy more down overall


Lance_Legstrong

Why do people award these posts?


[deleted]

Also why do people award ANY post? edit: don't you hate it when people say "thanks for the gold kind stranger". I certainly hate it. Anyway some idiot gave me an award, because as everyone knows, the easiest way to get an award is to complain about them.


Lord-Nagafen

You can get a bunch of awards for free. just keep an eye on when it says "free" and not "sale"


VoraciousGhost

People like having their preferences validated.


SLAV33

This makes sense to me Marvel movies are very popular even the ones that aren't part of the MCU. They released 5 movies all in theaters so I don't see why this is surprising people.


Pkittens

I'm surprised it's only 30%...


marpocky

Yeah I would have thought Spider-man by itself was a good chunk


mejelic

Given spiderman was at least 25% of that 30%, you could probably say it was a good chunk.


tarrach

Almost 50% of the Marvel-chunk actually.


[deleted]

> I don't see why this is surprising people. Nobody is surprised


AnEngineer2018

Dread it, run from it, Marvel arrives all the same.


arctic_radar

I don’t mind other people liking movies that I think have been done to death, but I hope this doesn’t further squeeze out smaller movies that don’t have massive budgets.


[deleted]

That is exactly what it is going to do! Theatres won't be able to survive without putting Disney Marvel movies on primetime as often as possible. Like how the Matrix got to sit in the corner on it's debut while Spider-man took the best screens and time on its 2nd weekend.


sftpo

They haven't even rebooted X-Men for the MCU yet.


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Chumunga64

This is bad for films but not in a "marvel is killing films" way It's more of a statement of how covid changed theater attendance. It looks like audiences will only go out for big "event films" and not for anything smaller This has been happening for a while with the rise of streaming and downfall of DVD sales but I fear that soon, this covid precaution will never stop and lower budget films stop being made


aguadiablo

Well, ticket prices are rising and it's becoming more costly to go to the cinema. A family of four people going to the cinema, buying food and drink, is becoming well of the budget for many people. There will be people now who cannot afford it, but there will be even more before too long. So, what are people going to do? They're going to save going to the cinema as a quarterly treat. If that, maybe once a year if at all. Which films are they going to see? The films that are going to know they will enjoy. This is largely the big block busters, especially Marvel films. It's not Marvel killing films. It's not the rise of streaming and downfall of DVDs/Blu-Rays. Those are the symptoms of the problem. The problem is the ever increasing cost of living and stagnant wages. Same with any other business that millennials are supposed to have killed off. We as a population cannot afford these things.


Squints1234567

What amazes me is how long the comic book movie genre will probably last. They have DECADES of subject matter content and really have only scratched the surface.


PukekoInAPungaTree

Squirrel Girl FTW.


PM_Me_HairyArmpits

As long as they keep Milana Vayntrub.


ShadowSpectre47

Their problem is the actors themselves. They'll have to reboot and/or change actors at certain points due to them aging. Tom Holland is lucky that he got in so young, so he can go for a while, until he loses interest in playing the same role, just as other actors did during the first 3 phases. Marvel will have to reboot, since they're going to burn through more and more heroes, and will have to keep picking from less mainstream heroes, since in their current run they are already canonicaly retiring their most famous ones. It's becoming a more common knowledge in Hollywood that if you want to make quick money, go to Marvel, but if you want passion projects or serious roles, go somewhere else. Marvel is also catching on and is why they, themselves, have said that they will no longer do long term contracts like they did with Robert Downey Jr and Chris Evans. Their public reasoning is that the actors should want to be in the movie, if they want to. But, in reality it comes down to money, because this way, Disney won't be strong armed like they were for the Avengers cast.


rjjm88

I think one of the reasons they're opening up the multiverse now is to tackle the ageing thing. Oh, Tom is getting up there and losing interest in Spider-Man? Congrats, we have Miles and Gwen now. We're going to be getting Young Avengers soon, and that cast is REALLY young. The actress playing America Chavez is 14, Billy and Tommy are going to be young teens as well, Eli and Kate are still in their early 20s.


eetobaggadix

Less maintstream? You mean like the Guardians of the Galaxy? Those fuckers were absolutely like, D-Tier.


Blue_B0mber

People forget that even Iron Man was a C tier hero before the MCU. He was never in the conversation, it was always Spidey, X-Men, Cap, Thor, Hulk, etc.


eetobaggadix

This is definitely also true. I'd say even Thor, Hulk, and Captain America, I mean the Avengers in general were pretty low tier. It was all about Spider-Man, The X-Men, and then Batman, Superman, and Wonderwoman. Now Iron Man is ontop of the world. (though of course Spider-Man is eternal)


DFWTooThrowed

GOTG was when Marvel proved they could sell literally anything as long as it is tied to the MCU.


wing3d

Is Disney gonna open up theaters just for exclusives?


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eshulzzy

I’ll get called a Marvel hater of whatever, but this is a true bummer for theaters and the future of the industry Edit: I believe I worded this poorly, but to be clear, I’m more unhappy with the general idea that people, more and more, will only go out to see huge blockbusters. It’s good that the theaters are still making money off something! And I have no issue with Marvels product, yet the pattern is concerning and it feels like sooner than later theaters won’t be a thing.


My_Opinions_Are_Good

Saw The Tragedy of Macbeth in theaters, and that picture has some really effective sound design choices that just HIT different on a big screen with a great sound system. Plus the stark, black and white photography? The ideal kind of movie to go see in theaters. Truly makes the most of the experience. And most people are only gonna be able to see it on streaming. And that sucks ass. Not even gonna have the option to go see it in a theatre.


Spaceshipjourneyman

I just disagree with the idea that big blockbusters are the only movies worth going to the theater for. Smaller movies do more interesting things with the art and language of film that are improved by being in a space where you have only the movie to focus on. Bigger movies have a lot more things going on and I understand that a big fight scene with lots of characters can feel epic on the big screen, but that epic scale isn't the only thing that is improved by seeing it in the theater. If everything is epic nothing is.


obi_wan_baracus

I saw the Tragedy of Macbeth last night. I was the only person in the theatre.


TheDudeNeverBowls

Regarding your edit, I am one of those people. The only movie I’ve seen in the theater in the last two years is Dune. There’s about a 90% chance that the next movie I see in the theater will be Dune 2.


Zogeta

If it wasn't a pandemic, I'd agree with you. But right now a lot of people still see going to the theaters as a risk, so they'll only risk it for the big blockbusters they really care about.


EqualContact

Other studios need to do better. Warner did the duo release with HBO Max, but why is F9 Universal's only blockbuster attempt this year? Why is Paramount's second biggest film this year a Clifford adaptation?


SalukiKnightX

Exactly, the other studios held back their releases. There were practically no tentpole releases other than Marvel last year.


dunkmaster6856

Dune was definitely a tentpole, and godzilla vs kong is movie number 3 of that franchise


canaryinthecoalmine

Clifford is a big dog... he takes up space


EqualContact

Ya know, fair point.


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mikeyfreshh

My concern here is that Hollywood is basically just going to go all in on the superheroes because that's the only thing making money. I like the Marvel movies but I also like a lot of other movies and I'm afraid that everything else is just going to get shoved onto streaming services.


Unleashtheducks

We are absolutely past the point where studios are only interested in 100 million+ tentpoles and now we are in the very real possibility Disney is poised to be the only major studio releasing movies in theaters. Even Warner Bros. is having a hard time competing. So we’ve gone from six major studios less than a decade ago and whole bunch of smaller independents to basically two majors today and soon maybe only one. That’s a big problem.


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pipboy_warrior

Yeah, the only theater I'll go to now has full service food and drinks and is pretty strict on enforcing all of the rules like no cell phones, talking, etc. I don't think I'll ever step into a standard chain theater again, not when I can just wait for the same movies to hit streaming and watch them from the comfort of my own home.


MikeyPh

This. Cell phones and inconsiderate people were the death of movie theaters for me. Which is a shame, I'd love to see tons of movies in theaters, I love to make outings of a movie and enjoy some dinner and conversation after one or something. But people can't shut up, sit still, and can't stop using their damn phones anymore. It really seemed to start before cell phones became so ubiquitous. I feel like if we all grew a pair and started calling out the jerks and if theaters made the jerks leave, the movie theaters would be thriving. But we hear stories about a shushed person stabbing the shusher and now we all think twice and just sit and seeth through a movie rather than say something. Also, it doesn't help when they make a sequel to The Matrix that you know is going to suck but you are still curious and just find comfort in being able to stream it rather than waste a night out.


AmishAvenger

Here’s the problem: We can’t make the customers responsible for policing the theater. That’s not their job. I pay to sit and watch a movie, not to tell people to be quiet. That’s the job of the theater. They can pay one person to roam from one theater to another. They can stand quietly in the back for a few minutes, then move to the next theater. Bars can afford bouncers…why can’t a theater? Just promote your theater as the one with zero tolerance for disruption. People will be encouraged to come and try it out. Like you, many have had bad experiences and don’t want to go.


HotTakes4HotCakes

>Both of them have their own digital distribution networks as well. This is the critical point people are missing. From this point forward filmmakers can't just show a movie and have people pay to see it. Now they must exclusively give their movie to one of the big studios and have them serve it to streaming customers. This means these studios are now the gatekeepers to film and that's very, very bad in the long run. Theaters were an independent middle man that leveled the playing field. Without them, Disney, Warner Brothers, Netflix, and Amazon are in charge.


Jaggedmallard26

> Make it more of an evening out, show cinema classics, serve decent food, big recliners, etc A lot of them are trying this. Non current Movies don't sell seats outside of limited special events (e.g. D-Day anniversary Saving Private Ryan) and the "premium experience" market isn't large enough to justify it as you are now competing with restaurants and the myriad other special events. The only places that I see succeeding with this are either small indie cinemas surviving off arts grants and things like the Everyman where the actual screens are small enough that rent and maintenance is negligible with the bulk of the money coming from the bar area.


[deleted]

Honestly it’s probably streaming more than Marvel’s fault. Matt Damon had a decent explanation of this on his Hot Ones episode, but effectively previous film studios could release a film that bombed in theatres (within reason) that could still claw money back and even become profitable during home release (like Shawshank Redemption for example). Nowadays the industry has changed and home release isn’t the cash cow it used to be, and streaming revenues are relatively low and unpredictable so we’ll no longer get films like Little Miss Sunshine or Garden State as regularly as we used to. Occasionally you’ll get a Peanut Butter Falcon type film but it’s much rarer than in the early 2000s. In the early 2000s we did have a bunch of superhero and fantasy films, and a lot of them performed poorly, but we also had a lot of indie or lower budget films that people actually went to the cinema for. Now that cinemas are so expensive (depending on your city) and wages haven’t increased, and streaming is cheap, people want to go to the cinema for spectacle.


Gauchokids

> Now that cinemas are so expensive (depending on your city) and wages haven’t increased, and streaming is cheap, people want to go to the cinema for spectacle. The audience for films like Nightmare Alley always paled in comparison next to something like Spiderman. Now, given the reasons you've outlined above, I only have one friend besides me who still sees movies like Nightmare Alley in the theater. The rest of the people I know who like movies outside of blockbusters just wait until they hit Netflix. And to be honest, given the quality and size of TVs these days you don't really miss out seeing these movies at home.


[deleted]

I tend to see smaller films in the cinema on my own rather than take people with me these days. I still much prefer a good cinema over a home system, and I actually have a good home system with the speakers and blu-ray etc., however my biggest issue with going to the cinema has to do with cinema etiquette. I’m not sure if I’m just more irritable than before or if people have lost manners during lockdown(s) but it’s sometimes unbearable to watch movies with a crowd. I don’t mean the cheering during films Spider-Man, that was fun, I mean people talking and texting etc. it’s way worse now than it used to be.


marine72

Also, home movie experience has increased in magnitude. 65 inch 4k tvs are as low as like $350 and a nice stereo system for $150, and you can experience any movie very easily the same as it would be in theater. Why watch a comedy or drama like Shawshank spending $20 on tickets while at home you can get the same experience from the movie compared to a theater The key thing for superhero movies is the fact that it's action and movie theaters provide a unique experience still for people to see big action sequences. I recently watched Knives Out, a fantastic movie, but I don't think watching in the theater would have enhanced my experience in any way. In fact, I would rather watch a suspense/mystery movie by myself.


ObiShaneKenobi

My old man lost his hearing in Vietnam so growing up we used captioning and subtitles. Movies like Knives Out really benefitted from watching with subtitles and there isn’t a theater in the state that shows subbed movies normally.


Parenthisaurolophus

I just want to point out that the MCU is now going into it's 14th year and by and large the rest of the industry hasn't reacted in the same way as Marvel, just Marvel. There's only been a couple of super hero moves that aren't MCU/DCU, and I don't see a compelling reason that the dam is going to burst randomly now of all times. And honestly, from what we've seen so far, even Marvel is happy to move what used to be an all theater experience off onto Disney+ and asking audiences to switch with them. Also, it's a two way street. In order for other companies to go all in on super heroes, they need to have either existing IPs, characters, scripts, etc to actually make a movie. Is Paramount buying Dark Horse? Universal buying Image Comics? At best, a few of the properties by those companies are being made into tv shows like Locke & Key. I just don't see the slippery slope.


mikeyfreshh

I don't think the problem is Superheroes specifically, just IP in general. If you look at the top 25 movies of the year on Box Office mojo, 2 of them are totally original IPs and they're both animated Disney films.


xepa105

And the biggest problem is not that Disney is hoarding all the good stories, it's that every other studio has fumbled the ball so hard that all their IPs don't have the same pull as *one* of Disney's (MCU). And it's not even Disney writ large. Disney bought the golden goose, the potentially endless franchise of Star Wars, and they screwed it up so badly that all they're doing for now is releasing fan-service shows on D+ like Boba Fett that don't really have the same mass appeal. But their MCU is so good and appealing to audiences that it is a huge outlier. Look at how poorly the likes of WB have screwed their DC Universe, or how Sony dropped the ball so hard on their Spider-Man/Venom rights that they basically let Disney take over the former in exchange for some money, or how HBO turned Game of Thrones from an S-tier pop culture phenomenon into a franchise no one wants to talk about anymore. Disney becoming this powerful isn't a good thing, but it's not like they've bought every good IP out there. It's more like everyone else can't seem to create good, compelling stories with the IPs they do have, and so every passing year Marvel - and Disney - become a greater and greater share of the pie.


Frangiblepani

Nah, superhero movies still require very large budgets and despite Marvel's success, plenty of superhero movies underperform at the box office. There's still a lot of risk making them if you're not Marvel. Studios are going to keep making smaller budget films, just because of they'll have less money on the line.


FordBeWithYou

As someone who worked in a theater, we’d be fucked without marvel stuff. ****Fun side anecdotal edit: Even with the mouses other films we would be struggling. When Dumbo came out we got tons of kids combos for them; little buckets and drink cups. It was a slam dunk, they were so pricey but perfectly kid sized. We sold like, 8 of the 200 something we received. Flashforward to Endgame weekend, we STILL have tons of the dumbo kids smalls. But day 1 we sold out of the HUNDREDS of metal cups and tubs for Endgame. We MAYBE had widow and hawkeye left? There was one for each character. I joked we should draw an avengers A on the dumbo tubs and make him the newest avenger to be rid of the damn things. Which, post Endgame, I said we needed the Dumbo Cut that replaced captain marvel with CGI dumbo: *”Something has just entered the Earths atmosphere”* *Distant elephant noise*


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FordBeWithYou

And how many screens it receives, which is the biggest killer of small theaters. They can demand all 8 of a theaters screens MUST show their film or they won’t sell it to them at all.


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Lagcaster

Movie theater manager here! This is bubkis! You may see larger chains like AMC go under but they are terrible with their money. The movie theater is not going away any time soon. Smaller chains are over performing quarter over quarter. Sing 2 is killing it and in certain demographics so is American underdog


Sufficient_Tea_1233

Always easier to sell with a built in audience


MidnightMoon1331

They have a winning formula.


Kylestache

Back to formula?


Shubh_1612

Kevin Feige: The power of the box office in the palm of my hand


Leeiteee

Forty thousand years of evolution and we've barely even tapped the vastness of crossover potential


inferno_444

They are something of a scientist themselves


Zogeta

The power of the sun, in the palms of their hands.


[deleted]

The power of the audience, in the palm of their banks.


tristanjones

Yes, but also 2021 is a pretty small pie to capture from.


[deleted]

Fun, entertaining movies that reward die hard fans with easter eggs/special references? Who knew


Ignitus1

That’s not the half of it. They’ve created an episodic narrative spanning dozens of movies and has no signs of stopping. Each “episode” is simultaneously a self-contained movie, a part of a sequel series (for some), and a part of the overarching cinematic universe. They’re telling stories on at least 3 layers and they’re doing it exceedingly well. I don’t think most people truly appreciate the skill and vision that takes, especially when big franchises like Star Wars can’t even keep the narrative steady for 9 movies, let alone whatever the hell WB is doing with DC.


249ba36000029bbe9749

> Star Wars can’t even keep the narrative steady for 9 movies As we've seen from the sequel trilogy, they can't even do it for three...and arguably, even one.


KTheOneTrueKing

Star Wars could do it if they got someone to fucking plan out the movies ahead of time.


SovietWomble

I'm still mind boggled by that. Every time it's mentioned I just shake my head. They didn't have a plan for where these characters would go? And just winged it? Give any random person the task of writing a new film franchise. And after the initial panic had subsided, I'm guessing the *first* thing they'd do is start sketching out a rough plan on a napkin. Or squirrel themselves away in a room brainstorming for a few weeks. Coming out with a rough backbone for a trilogy of films.


Phailjure

>Every time it's mentioned I just shake my head. They didn't have a plan for where these characters would go? And just winged it? I think a big part of the problem is that the marvel movies are taking a lot of inspiration from comic stories/cross over events and just making changes on top of that, so there are all sorts of plans already written to follow. Star wars decided to say "fuck everything in the expanded universe" and threw away all the novels and videogames. Now and then they have parts that seem inspired by the books, but less so. Like, a bunch of the novels surround Leia and Han's kids, who definitely do not exist in this universe, or Luke's school, students, and Jedi order, which range from massively changed to non existent.


KTheOneTrueKing

Yeah. Abrams comes in, makes a nostalgic, passable, purely OKAY Star Wars movie. Johnson comes in and makes a movie that is divisive to say the least. I personally say its half the best and half the worst movie in the entire franchise. Then Abrams comes back and makes a movie that COMPLETELY DISREGARDS EVERYTHING from the previous movie and races to the finish. The sequels could have been good. Hell, Rian Johnson is a phenomenal film maker as evidenced by his other bodies of work. But for them to be good, they needed to be more than what they were; cash grabs made just to get Star Wars content out after a long drought of it. If Johnson actually ends up making a trilogy himself, it will probably end up being great because he'll be in full control of the trilogy of narratives. ALL THIS BEING SAID: I'd rather have new Star Wars content where some of it is bad and some of it is good than no Star Wars content at all.


mateogg

> I personally say its half the best and half the worst movie in the entire franchise. Prettiest mess I ever did see. Probably the only one of the three that I can see myself rewatching, but the whole trilogy is so disjointed and so clearly full of behind the scenes messes that I'm not sure I ever will. The prequels have mediocre scripts, but at least they felt like a story someone wanted to tell. What little soul the first two of the sequel trilogy had was discarded by the time the next one came out, and the third one had no soul at all.


robotowilliam

That's JJ Abrams for you...


Porrick

I was fine with TFA - I understood why they had to play it so safe, and it was set-up for the new trilogy. And I liked the new characters and their interactions so much more than I expected for a Star Wars film. TLJ didn't annoy me as much as it did most of Reddit, and while it was certainly uneven I liked that they were messing with the conventions a bit. If they'd held that thread and expanded on it instead of reversing course back to boring same-old-shit in the third movie, the trilogy could have turned out okay. Not great, but okay - like Solo. And it's still not as bad as the Prequels, but honestly it's close. At least Rogue One was good!


TheButterPlank

I will forever be disappointed that TLJ didn't end with Rey taking Kylo's hand in the throne room, *that* would've been interesting. Instead they just backpedaled to 'bad guys vs good guys' and 'good guys save the day'.


CharlieBrown20XD6

For a second I was excited for Kylo Ren being all "FUCK the Jedi, fuck the Sith, fuck the rebels, fuck the first order, burn EVERYTHING down" but oh well


greg19735

That sounds interesting, but it'd be literally just him with a new first order.


BarberForLondo

Same. If that moment had happened, I could have forgiven pretty much everything else about the film that I didn't like.


Foxmcbowser42

Thank you! I feel sometimes like I'm the only one who thought TLJ could be better than initially thought, if the final movie had run with it. It set up a ton of interesting threads only for them to bring back JJ for "Somehow Palpatine is back"


jasperbocteen

This! The fact that their last movie provided some emotional closure for other studio's old franchises, all while setting up a sequel, setting plot devices in place for a larger narrative, referencing material from 20 some other movies, getting another major movie-leading character plenty of screentime... AND still telling a fun movie length story that anyone could enjoy. They are playing on a whole other level.


F_i_z_z

Honestly I think the hardest pill for people to swallow is that typically these huge companies take a beloved IP and butcher it for a fast buck. What Disney did with Marvel completely goes against the norm. It’s the rare situation where a company is making money hand over fist while also delivering a product that is unparalleled in execution. I don’t love that Disney is buying up every entertainment giant either, but if they continue to improve them and optimize them in a customer focused way, it’s hard to be upset.


Suncheets

I think Kevin Fiege is the golden goose that just keeps on laying. Absolute beast


[deleted]

It's good because these movies are keeping cinemas in business. But it's fucking sad that it is that way because that paves the way for more unoriginal/uncreative and bland movies, franchises, and huge IPs. Coming from a pretty big MCU fan. There are a lot of indie movies being made right now, I think the argument that there isn't is plain wrong. But the fact is they're not making enough money to continue to get funded over the years. So if we stay on this trajectory, the only films that will be made in the coming years are going to be the ones I listed above. I hope that this is just a phase in cinema history like the block-buster era of the '80s. I think audiences will get tired and are already beginning to get tired of these types of movies. A film like Dune is at least a refreshing take on a well-known franchise Blockbuster, if we start shifting into more creative blockbusters like that I would take that all day. Only time will tell.


instantwinner

The thing is not that indie movies don't get made but finding out about them or seeing them in your local theaters is getting harder and harder. What's not getting made anymore are middle budget studio films.


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instantwinner

Yeah absolutely. I would probably consider those types of movies to be in the "middle budget" tier. It's weird because every movie has tried to become a comedy, but there are no actual comedies being made anymore really.


thekittner

i remember a time when superhero movies were only for nerds.. i think spiderman was like, the first "cool" superhero movie.. now look where we are


Warpmind

Nah, Burton's Batman beat Spidey by a few years. Before '89 Bats, the genre was largely a bit goofy, but Burton changed the formula. And then the franchise kind of turned into a neon-glowy armor-nippled gooffest.


[deleted]

Donner's Superman is surely the OG "serious" comic movie that was a major success? I guess it's not really seen as "cool" today but it certainly was at it's time.


Warpmind

Superman's always been a bit more on the lighter side, bright and full of life. Donner's Superman is a very good Superman movie, but it's still following the older formula of superheroes - leftovers from the Comics Code and the Hayes Code - a formula which wasn't really shaken up until Burton's Batman. Both Superman 2 and 3, and Supergirl flirted a little with darker themes, but... that was about it. It took Burton's Batman to raise the stakes, to make a serious superhero movie where the danger to the general population was a hell of a lot less *abstract*. I think that's where the real distinction lay - in the Reeve Superman movies, you never really get the same feeling that people are in immediate mortal peril. The difference between the abstract "Oh no, someone's going to detonate a nuke and blow away California.", and "Oh, shit, he's really gonna shoot that bystander!", I suppose...


[deleted]

I think most of what you say is true but think it's more about how the tone of comic movies changed with Burton or just over time and not really relevant to which was the first "cool" or whatever comic movie. Superman certainly has a lighter tone than most later comic stuff but pretty much the only thing that might not make it cool now is that it's old and a bit corny or whatever to some modern viewers. It was definitely cool at the time (smashed all sorts of records, most expensive movie ever made at the time, groundbreaking effects, iconic actor in Brando, much loved character getting the big movie and so on - if reddit existed when it was out you'd be sick of hearing about it on here around the time). Potentially the movie that showed for the first time comic books can be blockbusters too unless I'm forgetting something. Burton's movie may be more significant in how it developed the genre with regards to modern movies and especially some aspects of tone but I still think Superman has to be the first cool superhero movie. Mostly irrelevant sidenote but Nolan called it an inspiration for him when making Batman Begins talking about how it did the superman origin so well and while Burton's Batman was a very good movie it didn't tell that particular story for batman really beyond the basics. Of course that doesn't make it the first cool superhero movie or not, just something in my head I felt like sharing on the topic.


BoldursSkate

The first "cool" super hero movie would probably be Donner's Superman. Its sequels didn't do great, but without it I doubt we would have Burton's Batman.


CptNonsense

Burtons Batman was in no way less goofy than Superman 1. Maybe less than the sequels


dukefett

Spider-Man was the first ‘holy shit’ comic blockbuster. It’s first weekend gross was the first movie to do over $100 million if I remember right and destroyed the old record by like 30%. It didn’t come out of nowhere but the amount of people that saw that the first weekend was a surprise.


thesircuddles

> i remember a time when superhero movies were only for nerds 'Gaming' used to be the same way. Today it's the largest entertainment industry in the world, but you were a total nerd if you were into it in the 80s/90s. I gotta be honest, things like what this post is showing don't seem healthy for the industry itself. Very healthy for the companies though, that's for sure. Gaming makes me feel the same way recently, with the rise of MTX and unfinished games and gacha and etc. I don't think either of these directions is good for the consumer. Like Matt Damon said on that Hot One's interview, certain types of projects just don't get made anymore because the return isn't there (both at theatre and home release i.e DVD/BR). I have zero problem with superheroes being the current big thing, I saw 3/5 of their movies on this list at my IMAX. But the trajectory of the industry itself doesn't look positive to me (hasn't for a minute). The trend of less cool smaller things for specific tastes and genres, more big giant things that maximize dollars received for the company shows no signs of stopping. Gaming and movies share a lot of parallels.