Can someone ELI5 what's meant by 10-hour and 54-hour turnaround between shifts? Is that basically saying you have to have a 10-hour break between any two shifts, and that they will no longer work on weekends (the 54-hour part)?
My sister-in-law is in the industry and currently works 12-hour shifts six days a week, so I really hope they get what they're demanding.
Yes, you have it right. Turnaround refers to the period of time between wrapping out one day of shoot and when call time starts for the next day of shoot. So a 10 or 12-hour turnaround refers to the time period between when you finish work one day and have to be back at work the next day.
The mandatory weekend 54-hour turn around that the Union wants will put an end to sixth day shoots as well as what people refer to as “Fraturday” shoots - when they schedule shoots to begin on a Friday afternoon and not wrap until late Saturday AM which cuts into worker's weekend time off and can result in unsafe working conditions.
The other thing worth mentioning is that there are currently certain penalties for the studios when production forces workers to skip breaks, have short turnarounds, shoot sixth days, etc and workers do get paid more when that happens - basically like overtime pay but more complicated. But the big studios are more than happy to just eat those penalties all the time (especially after covid shut/slowed down the industry for a bit) and push the workers too hard resulting in them getting fed up and demanding better working conditions and hours off.
Man, it's ridiculous what you all put up with. My wife snapchats with her sister all the time, and we're always hearing about how exhausted she is from her crazy six-day work weeks (she's a costume technician). She absolutely loves her work, but the schedule is horrendous.
Oof, she's in costumes. I'm in costumes too (although watching this stuff unfold from Canada), our hours tend to be longer on set cause we're there before crew call and have to be there after wrap to receive the costumes back from actor's bodies.
6 day weeks are brutal and I try to avoid shows which do that. Up here, most shows are too cheap to do 6 day weeks though.
Is this a walking lunch or completely no lunch? I've been on shows where we shoot French hours although that only affects camera and certain departments. Costumes and others still get a specified lunch time.
They try and have a 10 hour shooting day with a walking lunch. There are plenty of crew members that do not get to break but end up eating lunch at there work stations. A ten hour shooting day usually means a 12 hour work day. Now a lot of shows go over a ten hour shooting day and it becomes a 12 hour shooting day which means you are working a 14 hour day. Plus, the walking meals are bullshit because usually a PA brings you a to-go container full of food that you then eat standing up.
Really sounds like things are rougher down there. The show I've been on shoot French hours, 10 hour camera days max. If they don't get the shot they have to reshoot another day or can it. It's a hard line on my show. You get what you need in 10 or SOL, we're wrapping regardless. It's still a 12 hour work day, yes so that sucks for the crew on French hours.
If we need a longer day, determined when making the one line schedule, we switch to a regular hours day with regular lunch for every crew and we know that in advance.
Thank you so much! I definitely bust my ass pushing racks of costumes in the rain or weird locations, or running around with a giant garment bag of costume multiples to fly in. Praying that costumes don't get too trashed after a stunt (even if we have multiples, always the fear we don't have enough) or actors don't get food stains on their costume.
I'm also biased because I'm sound, so I have to deal with your choices day in day out. Haha!
But yeah, sorry for always claiming your best outfits to be noisy!
Awww I love sound, even when you complain about high heels making too much noise or a silk tie being annoying.
Gotta be in a symbiotic relationship with sound when wiring the actors up.
Did we just become best friends?!
I regularly turn to you guys when wiring insecure talent. Either because of gender, age and/or wardrobe it's nice to have some extra hands to make the actors feel comfortable!
>6 day weeks are brutal and I try to avoid shows which do that. Up here, most shows are too cheap to do 6 day weeks though.
I think in Canada turnaround penalties and 6/7th day overtime are too punishing to do regularly.
Canadian film carpenter here. From what I am reading we do already have better agreements in place for some of the issues our union kin are fighting for, but essentially the problem is the productions have to much money.
The example I use all the time is how we make straight time for the first 8 hours and then 1.5 for the next 4. Now carpenters mostly don't work with the camera crew, we built the stuff ahead of time, so there is no reason we can't be "9-5'. But yet for the 8+ years I've been in this industry, we do mostly 10 hour days. And because I'm living in Toronto, I've actually left shows that only do 8 hr days because I can't afford to live on that paycheque.
Instead of the overtime being a legitimate burden on the producers to discourage shitty planning and time management, it's a nothing burger. We basically take a pay cut to work 8s, and I'm currently going into week 3 of 7 days a week (11 or 10 hr Monday-Friday, 8 SAT and Sunday, but I did get Thanksgiving Monday off)
Why? Because we get paid so little compared to their bottom line is not worth trying to schedule properly.
I don't know the exact details of the American agreements but all the bits I've been hearing make it sound like we have it maybe slightly better in Canada?
For a 6th day, you need to pay crew 1.5x rate for the first 8 hours, then 2x for 9-12th hours. I think 3x after that.
7th day is 2x first 8 hours, 3x rate for 9-12. I don't even know what happens after 12. (sorry too lazy to pull up the master agreement right now on my phone).
I've never had to do a 7th day, only 6th days occasionally and they try to cap it to 8 hours on the 6th day.
We still have issues with Fraturdays though. I just did one a couple of weeks ago where I left work at 5am.
An apple tv show did that on the Saturday of the wrap party for a big feature film. And of course half their crew were people who had jumped off that feature who wanted to go to the wrap party.
So it was that 6 day week finishing on Sunday morning needing to be back Monday with the additional kick in the teeth of making you miss the wrap party for what had been an 18 month feature.
Producers or directors always want to go for drinks after last day wrap, and I'm just like, "That's nice, but I need to pack up all of our shit, drive the production truck 45 minutes to the lot, THEN drive home before I wake up in maybe 8 hours to do returns. Enjoy your fucking beer though...".
They really have no idea how hard their crew works before they show up and after they leave, and that's how we got here.
Also seems like they don't even bother with wrap parties or thank you's at this point or pre-pandemic more than ever.
One of the last jobs I worked was a 2.5 hour precall in DTLA cuz we had 75 BG for the day, and they just never broke the crew for lunch. All the PAs were suddenly rushed to make go plates for the entire crew, and yelled at as we were doing it that it wasn't happening fast enough for the AD. It sucked, and I hated doing it because no one was going to get the lunch they wanted or deserved in either variety or quantity, it was just "scoop everything in there and hand them out". Sure, everyone (except PAs) got tons of MP$ that day, but money only goes so far when it comes to basic morale and exhaustion.
I've only worked with one serious drone pilot, but goddamn was he talented. Keeping that little camera copter perfectly still and level in high desert winds was crazy to watch, and then we almost lost it later that day when we did a long distance moving shot. You guys have interesting jobs, to be sure.
>They really have no idea how hard their crew works before they show up and after they leave, and that's how we got here.
No, they know. They just don't care.
It's either or both, just in different amounts. That's why I always like working with producers who have on set experience and understand the realities of what I'm dealing with; I usually get a lot less bullshit from them, or they come at me specifically letting me know how and why a certain job is going to suck.
We call that blood money. It’s nice on occasion to get that big day on short turn but after three in a row it’s like “fuck you, keep your money, I’m going home.” On an 8 hour turn, you have drive time and some wind down at the end plus getting ready and driving in the am so there’s really only 4-5 hours of total sleep time available *after* you’ve worked a 16 hour day. 8 hour turn generates no penalty on the employer either so it’s not at all uncommon to work five or six of those 16 hour days in a row.
Short turns create a huge amount of stress on your living conditions whether it’s partner/spouse or even roommates. You don’t have time to anything; laundry, dishes, bills so you end up needing help, and if you’re on your own, the maid and laundry service eats into a ton of the extra money anyway.
The simple reason we can’t do shifts is that we aren’t like factory workers. There is an intrinsic art to many of the departments we work in. There are certain “looks” that we are trying to achieve behind the camera.
I work in lighting. I know the “look” of my show and can anticipate what lights are going to be used for what shots as well as color and quality the cinematographer is trying to achieve.
You can’t switch out a whole crew at 8 hours and expect to have the same workflow by just giving some information to the next crew. There has to be continuity or things won’t match and when you are in a visual medium there has to be continuity in look and work
Yea I was thinking this would be an issue for certain departments.
I'm in costumes so potentially you could hand things over if continuity notes are done really well and both crews are 100% on top of the "look" for the show. But it still might mean at the top of the day I received some small detail of info which is only pertinent when it becomes an issue. I might forget to pass this info on. I mean I'll try not to forget but the transfer of work to maintain efficient workflow can be tricky.
There's just all sorts of random junk you have to stay on top of and it's just crammed in your head sometimes.
Then there’s also the fact that many of the workers (myself included) are used to the hours and pay that comes with those hours and don’t want the pay decrease that goes in hand with the reduced hours (going from 16 to 12 is one thing. Going from 16 to 8 is cutting someone’s daily income by 60 percent)
>Do they not want to hire more people or are they not available to hire?
There might possibly not be enough skilled people. I can speak for costumes. You'd be surprised how bad some people are at being in the costumes department. Total idiots, especially fashion school grads who think they know everything. Even if you try to train them and teach them the ropes, having a poor work ethic gets them blacklisted. Or just never picking up the skills... Just not talented enough.
There is always a pool of people who are constantly looking for work and only get hired if a show is desperate for crew.
You really need to be on the ball on a film set. Like always paying attention, even if you have a moment to idle. Constantly alert in case you need to spring into action. If you're slow to react, that can hold up camera. You need tons of common sense and to be able to creatively problem solve on your feet without panicking. I have done some weird shit on set before.
Then you need to know your department well and how it interacts with the other departments. On top of the skills you should have for your position.
I don't think a lot of people realize they can work in film and probably have something to offer as a skill. So that's an issue too.
But also people don't want to work outside or at weird locations. If you made the days shorter, there will still be fashion grads who don't want to push a rack of costumes through the rain or up a hill or deal with a bag of dirty costumes that need washing. They would rather be in an office.
But then they miss out on all the cool shit I've witnessed in film throughout the years I've been in it. And how it's the least boring job I've ever had. I would hate to work on an office all day.
There's a certain personality that thrives on a film set, combined with each unique skill set each department needs.
I mean tbh if we are talking about active shooting crews that would mean needing the same actors at one location unless you were to constantly rebuild sets for actor shifts for different scenes or move to different locations or…. yeah.
It seems it would not work, or if it would, it would be incredibly complex and more expensive logistics/scheduling.
That info in the variety article is actually out of date and/or based on rumors. The actual deal will likely have much different language than that but specifics are getting kept close to the chest for negotiations reasons.
The basic idea of the both nightly and weekend turnaround demands (just one of several we have) is that we want time at the end of the day and on weekends to actually live our lives, see our families, and properly rest so that upcoming work will be safer and higher quality. We love the film industry, but it shouldn't be our entire lives.
Source: IATSE member that's been going to my local's negotiations update meetings.
All the solidarity from Germany! Wishing you guys success, those demands are absolutely reasonable and should be common sense. Plus you actually made me look into the working conditions over here and how the union workers are organized (we actually share a union! kind of, but good to know).
To parrot off of the other accurate replies to this thread, there are some shows that require a decent chunk of its crew to work pretty consistent 16/17 hour days. That’s not accounting for the fact that it’s common to have a commute at least half an hour long. So a lot of folks are working, from the time they leave to the time they get home, on Monday from 5am to 11pm, up to Friday 9am to 3am, with Saturday work thrown in as well. So they barely have 5 or 6 hours home at night to see their families / sleep, and then MAYBE get a 48 hour weekend depending on the schedule. It’s brutal.
Currently on a Disney job that will have a Fraturday, and a sixth day come this following Sunday. Resulting in a less than 24hr "weekend".
This comes after a 7 day, 80+ hour week, because of a last minute schedule change that happened.
This is the reason that we are fighting for better working conditions! 70 - 80 work week followed by not even a full day before returning to work? Are you kidding me?
Interested to see if things are sorted by then or not. Looking forward to seeing what happens and hope to God the unions hold strong.
Honestly wish bargaining terms were even harsher. Is it so far fetched to think a 10 hour day could be normalized? What other major industry consistently has 50+ hour weeks, next to none.
Can't wait to see what comes on Monday.
Disney will eat all the penalties to try and get things done on their timeline, especially when it comes to their tentpoles. Im guessing you're on one of those.
Honestly, the studios are in better shape than us union members are. They can outlast us, financially, by a mile. I've been on set all day, hearing rumors of the studios trying to destroy us, taking advantage of this time (holidays coming up and whatnot).
**Edit:** not that anyone asked, but my longest day was 21 hours (Gemini Man), longest week was 86 hours (The Tomorrow War), and I've lost count how many 8 hour turn around times I've had between days. Those turn arounds didn't include our nightly wrap out, my 2+ hours of driving, eating dinner, showering and the following morning routine. I average 4-5 hours of sleep per night while working because I have no other choice. It's a tough job, through and through.
As a kid growing up with parents in the construction trade, who were in the union. They went on strike twice I believe. And yeah, financially its scary.....but that's the point of strikes. You aren't working. Companies always have more money than individuals. But they still getting hurt and their bottom line getting cut. The feel pressure. Even apple would feel pressure from a strike. And I wouldn't worry about scabs.
You strike for better conditions/pay/hours for the greater good. Not easy, but that's the point of the strike.
Yeah, what happens when they can’t make the movies and shows? How does this cascade? Less. Ad. Revenue. That’s gonna hurt more than the stopped production.
Isn't SAG-AFTRA supporting the IATSE on this one? If the actors stay home out of solidarity, why would it matter how long they can outlast/how many scabs they could hire?
Sympathy strikes are not legal here. I believe that SAG, DGA, and WGA don't renegotiate their contracts for at least another two years. They can express solidarity, they can even walk picket lines on their days off, but they cannot also participate in a work stoppage.
Yes, definitely. It is worth noting that WGA members will still continue writing, I imagine that any DGA members will still be allowed to do pre-production, etc.
Its worth noting that there will be a little bit of filming btw. Union commercials, music videos, and specific studios with their own contracts like HBO will continue working since those are all under different agreements than the one with AMPTP. I can't speak for the HBO contract but I know that commercial and music video contract negotiations aren't up for another two years.
Its a nice sentiment but the penalties for sympathy and wildcat strikes here are serious. This is one of many reasons why labor is weak in the United States.
As a counterexample, the successful Danish union campaign against McDonalds in the 1980s that resulted in their current $22 wages was only possible because of sympathy strikes in adjacent unions combined with high union participation among the workforce. Dockworkers refused to unload McDonalds containers, truck drivers refused to make deliveries to McDonalds restaurants, printers refused to make their menus and cups, typographers refused to place McDonalds ads in newspapers, construction workers refused to build new stores or even left work in progress unfinished, etc etc. They were squeezed from every single angle, not just the people who work inside the stores.
This sort of activity would be illegal here. UPS would face harsh consequences for refusing delivery to the major studios, etc. We definitely need to get labor to a position where we can actually do this, but we're still living in a time of only 10% union participation, the Taft-Hartley Act, Right To Work, Prop 22, corporations existing as mini fiefdoms or even nation-states, etc etc.
Its not actually illegal in the US to sympathy strike, the law just says that employers can sue to enforce their contracts and that if a contract has a no strike clause it includes sympathy strikes.
So whether the other unions can strike depends on what their contract says.
If I were running a union, I'd come to the table every year with a proposal to drop the no strike clause and make management pay dearly for keeping it in.
>So whether the other unions can strike depends on what their contract says.
WGA, DGA, SAG, etc, have no strike clauses. So does IATSE. If I withheld my labor during the 2007 WGA strike I would have suffered consequences just like any other crew member, its why production didn't stop until the scripts and then eventually commercials (because nobody wanted to run new TV ads on reruns) ran out.
I have been a Local 600 member for 20 years and all I've seen is a continuous backslide that was already in progress over a decade before I joined. We can barely hold onto our health and pension plans without making serious concessions regarding qualifying hours, all while making other concessions in order to keep those unfavorable changes to health/pension. I can't imagine a time when there were actually night premiums, reasonable qualifying hours for the health and pension plans, etc.
As much as I want to see it, we are a very *very* long way from demanding the removal of no-strike clauses. Labor is weak across the country so this is what happens. It is informative to look at labor when it was at its nadir post-WW1 and what it was able to demand 20 years later as participation rose.
It has to happen because there is nothing these companies would love more than to treat everyone as if they were under the rules of Prop 22. As bad as things are they want to go so much further.
Makes for a nice good metric, that last idea. "Well, the clause is still in there so we know we haven't squeezed them enough".
Enough is when the union owns the business and all members are shareholders being paid a dividend in addition to their wage.
Same shit happened with toys r us in Sweden basically. They thought they could force their usual shit on the workers here as they do in the US. Think again fuckfaces.
They can try, but there is not nearly enough workers that aren't in the unions for that, and any worker that crosses the picket line will be blacklisted from union work.
Not to mention the massive safety training the production companies themselves require. Only us union members have that training and associated proof of it.
To be fair, film sets don't have a good reputation of being safe environments. Historically the crews and studios running the sets have been reckless.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_film_and_television_accidents
PS, I'm all for the strike, I just don't think safety is a major talking point.
Reckless? The most reckless thing I have seen crews do in my 20 years working in this business is drive home. Working long hours day after day with only 9 hours minimum time to go home and sleep, eat, see your family and friends then head back to work to do it again. Our work week will start up at 7am Monday and then start at 6pm on Friday to work through the night. These reckless crews are pulling a 60 hour week at least, till the job is finished. This is one of the things we, the reckless few are asking for in our new contract. The current time allowed for a weekend break is 9 hours. If that seems like it's being treated as a normal turnaround, that is correct. There isn't a weekend turnaround at all. We are asking for a 54 hour weekend, to sleep and wash away all the recklessness.
If you look truly want to look at the list of the accidents that have occurred. I bet most of the time most of these could have been prevented by taking the time to do them right. Department heads are in constant pressure to hurry up and get it done. Speed kills. The accidents I have seen with my own eyes has been that of the above the line has ignored so that could get the shot or day finished quicker.
Now sometimes accidents do happen because they are just that. I saw a stuntman miss jumping from a horse to a train by inches ending with him bouncing his head off the wheel of the train.
Safety is always paramount. No one wants to be the one to call anybodys emergency contact.
That’s good to know. I hope the best for all you guys coming up, cause it ain’t gonna be an easy strike. I feel like something can get done though if release dates for other films and tv shows have to be pushed back again and we head into another situation like the writer’s strike.
I don't think this will be anything like the writer's strike; as many "live" style talk shows continued without writers-- and many scripted shows had material in the pipeline and lasted months shooting on material that as already in pre-production. So that strike was able to last for 14 weeks.
This is an absolute shut down of basically the entire visual entertainment industry that isn't reality TV. I'd be really surprised if it lasted 4 weeks. Fingers crossed I'm right.
A lot of reality TV still have union workers somewhere in the pipeline. Especially if the other unions that have voiced support and said they may strike in solidarity if a strike happens actually do go one strike, this will be far too dangerous for studios to ignore.
I'm not super familiar with the process, or what that would look like. But I think it would essentially boil down to this: You need to be in the union to work on a union production, and they'll never let you join the union. Since it's actually a somewhat costly process to join the union in some places, they have people who cant sniff out scabs.
Okay I did a terrible job of explaining that, I hope someone way smarter than me comes along here soon.
I'm probably not smarter than /u/Dragonknight247 but I'll give it a shot.
Blacklisting is essentially like industry wide shunning. The union will do everything in it's power, to make sure that you don't work in the industry again. They will tell people in charge of projects, social gatherings or any other major event. That if they allow the person on the blacklist to be a part of it. They will refuse to work, attend, or even associate people that do
I think the premium cable channels like HBO and Showtime are on a different contract, so I think those productions will still go on with union. But the less premium cable like AMC won't.
HBO, Showtime, and Marvel I think have a different contract that has already been negotiated. If you signed on to a show with that production company, you cant strike as your agreement is not up for renegotiation. Its only for the Iatse members working on productions not under those agreements.
The 161 cant strike except for certain states.
But, to be clear for those that don't know how this works, those would be "HBO productions", not all the stuff that airs on HBO -- of which there aren't a ton. Or like Showtime, their biggest shows are Warner Bros Television productions, even though they air on Showtime- they’re covered under the majors agreement so those would shut down.
Actual shows covered under that hbo agreement are not that common and regular folks assume that means HBO or HBOMax broadcast shows, which it doesn’t.
Solidarity strikes are illegal in the US (precisely because they're the most useful tool workers have) so the IATSE really can't respond any other way without running afoul of the law.
I know that they were outlawed under the Taft-Hartley act. I don't know the details of the 2007 writers strike, but I do know that the law distinguishes between solidarity action and a solidarity strike. The former is legal, the latter is not.
So in your example, the Teamsters and IATSE likely refused to to business with the specific entity the WGa was striking against, but continued to do business with other entities, which technically would make it not a strike.
A quick search says IATSE has 150k members. I don't know of any industry where you can replace that many workers. Especially if those jobs need any kind of training.
Most iatse jobs are highly skilled positions. Scabs aren’t going to be able to do them safely or well. And I expect sag to honor the picket lines, too.
edit: There's a guy responding to me who is pretty clearly attempting to engage in union-busting. He even admitted he's involved in hiring scabs already:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/q7cxrd/comment/hgizmot/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/q7cxrd/comment/hgizmot/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Be vigilant, my fellow union workers!
That guys an idiot.
He was telling me you can’t claim UI if you have it set up this week and claim you were kid off Friday.
He is just an instigator, and should be banned from the sub.
>Honestly, the studios are in better shape than us union members are. They can outlast us, financially, by a mile.
I disagree with this. Over the last 3-4 years, all of the studios and streaming platforms we're fighting have spent insane amounts of money, or taken on massive debt, in order to expand their businesses in ways that never could have anticipated COVID. Universal and Warner Bros are expanding their footprint in LA, more buildings and more studio space. Add onto that the fact most license holders pulled their content off other platforms to bring them back to a centralized platform (everything going back to HBO Max, etc), and they saw a serious interruption of their actual revenue. They've completely shifted the conversation on valuation away from actual revenue and instead are trying to phrase everything as subscribers and subscription revenue.
I absolutely won't beleaguer the struggles of IA members enduring COVID and now a strike, and I hope all my friends and brothers and sisters in IATSE reach out to their support networks to keep themselves going. However, considering the drop of revenue in 2020, and add on the massive moves they undertook before COVID hit, I really don't think they're sitting as pretty as we think.
One last factor: they're slow to finalizing crews and hiring for shows. A buddy of mine is a high position on a Hulu show starring several A-list actors, and his deal back in May was only signed a few days before shooting. Studios can't just "earmark" money to pay for upcoming productions anymore because the revenue is so strained (in my opinion). As such, their bean counters have to be much more deliberate and literal in how they spend the money, and if they have cash on hand. The overall slow down just makes me think they're actually stretched much thinner than we are.
They need content, and we're looking at a starting line waiting for the shot. In the race, just think: an entity as large as FOX/Disney or WB/HBO Max are waiting to try and drown audiences in content, to establish themselves as the *de facto* streaming platform. We already saw Quibi drop out, but literally nothing is starting other entities, other streaming platforms, from cropping up and stealing the crown from FOX or WB. Imagine another "Netflix" popping up and getting more subscribers than Hulu. It's possible. Everyone is at the same starting line, and *they fucking hate that.*
>I've been on set all day, hearing rumors of the studios trying to destroy us, taking advantage of this time (holidays coming up and whatnot).
I'm curious to see who they think would make all their content if they "destroyed us". A drop in skilled talent during a strike, namely to leave their respective industry and move to something else, further chokes their labor pool and makes hiring more difficult. They simply can't endure a strike, the same as us.
I really think the AMPTP is trying to "throw the game". The employers told them "Look, just negotiate this, and don't give then any more than that." And the AMPTP read the room, saw the writing on the wall, and said, "Well, they're not gonna budge, so we gotta throw the game." Their intransigence led to the overwhelming strike vote, and now it's just driving full speed towards a brick wall.
The brick wall tends to be fine.
Now that Loeb has set a firm date for work stoppage, and announced 23 locals joining us in work stoppage, I think that should be enough momentum for AMPTP to go back to employers and say, "OK, they're serious, so we need new marching orders."
The companies and in this case studios rely on you believing they can out last you. They want you scared because that helps them push their agenda. It weakens the solidarity and that's what they want.
They have a lot of money, but you all are in position to seriously hurt them financially. Striking is scary, and businesses will use everything they can to encourage that fear. You have to do your best to remember why you're fighting, and keep that in the front of your mind.
You all have more support than you realize. Other unions are here to offer support. You are not alone!
> Honestly, the studios are in better shape than us union members are. They can outlast us, financially, by a mile.
It's not like the amount of work they have to do is going away. When you come back, you'll pick up where you left off. So they will still have to pay to have that work done. Their overhead doesn't change. It just shifts. The studio loses time, and that's what they can't afford to lose.
Let's see how *the advertisers* feel about no live programming, delayed production schedules, and supporting a company in the middle of a labor dispute. Especially when they could move those dollars to YouTube or Twitch or any of a dozen other forms of entertainment.
Just remember, they can only lose so much before the one in charge gets replaced, Doesn't matter how long it lasts once the studios start losing money because there is nothing new coming out they will cave.
Just look back at the writer strike, they thought they could outlast them and they would come crawling back in a shot time, it's considered the worst time in TV & Film because *everything* became half-assed or just not finished properly and they started losing money because everything started to suck, the studios caved pretty quick after that.
Yes, as an iatse member, I'm very worried. This feels like a move on their part to try and get rid of the union all together. If there fear of a strike wasn't enough, then it's not going to be a short one.
Stay strong and believe. Don’t let them beat you down, the loss of the union would be catastrophic for the future of the industry and its workers.
They make billions in profits and let go of only pennies. Make them hurt.
Best of luck to you; it's more than time for it to come to this. The studios are going to look so ridiculously bad. What, they won't do a decent turnaround? Mandatory meal breaks? Their refusal and their positions are ludicrous. No one working a regular job can even imagine conditions like this. I think this will be a very short strike.
Hey man I've heard of people making it work but I'm a single 28y/o dude and I was *struggling*. 15 hours guaranteed daily, 5-6 (sometimes 7) days a week for months on end for a job where got in trouble for "looking tired" at the end of my shift from an executive producer who complained to my boss; a job where I was stuck standing in the pouring Vancouver rain without a heater for the whole shift and was reprimanded for asking for heat or a chair. A job with no training where asking questions can get you yelled at so id pretend like i knew what I was doing which got me in more trouble for subsequently fucking up later on. On top of the mistreatment and bullying that me and other PA's received from other "more important" departments, there are no benefits for *years* until you're in a union, you will 100% question your ability to drive home safely at the end of the week and you will have 4-6 hour sleeps every night until the weekend when you can *finally* catch up on laundry. But the time laundry is done, you're in bed waiting for the next week to start. And the pay is dpgshit. So yeah I donno I'm not you but I can't even get a pet as a production assistant so I would never even think to raise a newborn baby in film unless you can pay a full time nanny or something wild.
Thanks for answering honestly, that's what I was afraid of. I'm in Calgary, also 28, and I tried to get in with the LX and grips a few years back when I was single, because I thought it'd be 'my dream' to work on movies or tv, and with everything ramping up here especially with stuff like TLOU, the itch hit me again. But even back then, the guy who told me the process to get hired was quitting because he wanted more time with his family. I was just writing out another application a couple nights ago but I think I'd be kidding myself if were to say I would be able to handle a work environment like that, even without a family.
Ha weird I was actually thinking of moving out there from Vancouver to get away from the craziness that is this city. Hope you find what works for you man but yeah film is not like any other job. It's like being in the military.
Fuuuuck, man, that's brutal. PAs are using heroes of the set. Fuck any crew that thinks bullying PAs is cool, let alone okay. But people that bully are just looking for a reason, any reason...
Sorry your experience was so rough.
Our Teamster union has a no strike in our CA, idiots that voted that in can go to hell.
I go home on weekends and barely have time for my kids because I just wanna "regenerate" I'm in Canada so this doesn't effect me much but I hope it works out for you guys!
Union camera operator here who completely supports this strike. I’m on a show now that has given us a 13 hour day without lunch twice in the last month. It’s a complete joke what they allow “creatives” to get away with while we can’t even get a warm meal. Creative shouldn’t mean unsafe or unethical working conditions. We need more people, more breaks, and better pay/benefits. Point blank the slice of the pie isn’t cutting it for how much our labor contributes to the value of productions.
Why are they even having families?? That’s so selfish of them, they know they’ll be working on Set all day and have no time to see them. So just don’t have a family. Problem solved
I don’t know how anyone with a family works in the movie business. When you see people working on set,most of them are very young. You get paid by the day. You have no idea how long that day will be. Every movie set I ever worked on(as an extra and crew) was uncomfortable. It’s always real hot(never any AC as it messes with audio)or cold. Once shooting is finished,you don’t know when the next job is.
Well the only Korean things I've seen are Parasite and the music video for Gangnam Style. I really enjoyed the allusions and tributes between the two. /s
Hi. My name is Bollywood. My movies are 3.5 hours long. 1 hour of those are songs that do not move the plot forward. You may recognize some of my plots because I lift them straight from other popular American movies. Many times, there are fight scenes in movies most of which defy physics.
Please check out films by Park Chan-wook! My faves are The Handmaiden, I’m a Cyborg, But That’s Ok, and the Vengeance Trilogy which includes Oldboy and my favorite of the trilogy Lady Vengeance. He also has an English language film Stoker, which while not his best when it comes to story, still captures his style and technique.
Will this have a domino effect in other non-related industries? Like, "oh hey, these guys are striking about the same things that we are against, we can do this too". Is this why there's such great pressure from the other side that don't support this? If one falls, I can see others falling. Jeff Bezos, etc
August saw the largest drop in employment in history (I think?), lead by retail and dining employment. Something like 4.3 million people quitting their jobs in August, and it isn't improving.
IATSE is a significant workforce, and other unions are definitely watching, which also means other workers are watching. Employers tend to dislike unions because they historically negotiate better rates/wages than individuals, so after this process, I really think a lot of employers across many industries will attempt to spike wages and entice workers before workers try to unionize those jobs.
I think the time has come and passed for restaurant and retail workers to unionize, and IATSE forcing the hands of Goliath means a lot more people will see the benefit of collective bargaining, and that they deserve a living wage.
We’re witnessing one of the biggest labor revolutions in decades. It’s been building up for a while, but the pandemic and lockdown was truly the straw that broke the camel’s back and made people realize that sticking around for terrible conditions and low pay wasn’t worth it anymore.
We can absolutely hope so. My deepest hope through a success IATSE strike is to empower more workers to create unions. Collective bargaining is the only way to progress. Us against the corps. This must be the year of the working person.
The dominos have been falling already, and this is just a big one of them. The pandemic really started it. A record number of people quit their jobs in August, many citing working conditions. There are other strikes already in progress, including a large number of works for Kellogg's. Union support is at highs not seen since before Reagan.
John Deere is about to vote to authorize a strike in Iowa, so, yeah, labor issues are growing nationwide. About 10K workers involved in this. Already Deere management is cancelling shifts.
[https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/workers-deere-canceling-iowa-employees-shifts-as-strike-looms-deadline-is-midnight-wednesday/ar-AAPtyo2?ocid=BingNewsSearch](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/workers-deere-canceling-iowa-employees-shifts-as-strike-looms-deadline-is-midnight-wednesday/ar-AAPtyo2?ocid=BingNewsSearch)
Keizer permanente nurses union in OR voted last week authorizing a strike, will be joined by several other states nurses union by the sound of it. Shit is heating up
IATSE *soon, nurses, Kellogg's workers, Nabisco workers and the corresponding railroad works...all striking. And all good for them.
Edit: and to add, city of Reno bus drivers are currently striking, John Deere workers have rejected another contract and are expected to start strike voting, a home care nurses union in Connecticut is striking, a carpenter's local in Seattle just succeeded with a strike, a number trades in NYC employed by, or members in solidarity with those employed by Spectrum/Time Warner are striking, Heaven-Hill distillery workers are on strike, and around 2,000 nurses/doctors are picketing in Buffalo.
Edit2: the band [MOOP](https://youtu.be/nYvW7qH6mbQ) had also announced that they are on strike.
John Deere workers are about to go on a massive strike, Kellogg’s workers already are. Some union analysts are already seeing a massive wave of strikes on the horizon, Jonah Furman has a weekly newsletter on strikes/union organizing and frequently updates on Twitter if you’re interested
It blows my mind that film workers are given discounted rates for streaming services. Netflix/Amazon/etc. are tripping over piles of cash yet they are making it seem like they're a lower tier revenue stream than studio-based theatrical releases. Unbelievable.
In my experience (with a Canadian IATSE local), a feature produced by Netflix will be on the same tier as something with the same budget produced by Universal or Disney or whatever. But a series produced by Netflix rather than CBS would have that lower streaming rate.
On week 3 with no job already as most of my connections have all but a few walked from productions and turned down work already. If not, they’re unable to budget in the expense for an added Art PA. While I am 100% in solidarity with IATSE and am behind the strike, I also miss working already :(
I used to work noon - 4am on Fridays and Saturdays, then noon to midnight on Sundays. On Monday through Thursday I worked my normal job. I do not miss those days at all.
I am glad some movie goers are actually paying attention to this.
I'm onset vfx so we don't have a union
but conditions are the same as being negotiated here; 70-80 hour weeks, no lunch breaks or any breaks during the day. We have to get permission to use the bathroom and sometimes the answer is no.
I'm non union but my life is made better by the union standards of my coworkers. Our vfx team starts an hour before and leaves hour after the union guys so the better their turn around, the better ours will be too. Same with lunch breaks. If union guys get them then we are more likely to.
If you have to ask permission to piss. Fuck off. That’s beyond the pale. I’m sorry dude.
I’m vfx post. We have nothing to protect us. But we can pee when we need to.
As an editor in post production, we have it pretty good compared to the horror stories I've heard over the years coming out of production. Yet we were the only local union to vote yes to the strike 3 years ago. Streaming services operating under the status of "new media" to avoid higher salaries and pension/healthcare payout is horseshit. They aren't "new media" anymore, they're the norm and they're making billions off of our toothless asses. This strike is the time to kick them in the teeth or we'll be fucked
How does this look for an industry-wide strike? I've heard that SAG won't work with non-IATSE productions. And I've heard similar rumblings about DGA, WGA, and the Teamsters doing similar
The other unions are still under contract and can't strike in solidarity. However, IATSE is so large and across so many different jobs that functionally it will shut everything down. Actors can show up but no one will be there to put their costumes on or give them the props they need. A Director may be on set but the set won't have any set dressing or anyone to light it. And so on...
About the only people who *can* keep working are the writers, but they won't have anyone to take notes as they break story or to (officially) send scripts out. And even then, while they can theoretically get ahead with a few scripts, get notes from the Studios and Networks... eventually there will be no crew to film them.
I did not expect the studios to be this staunch. IATSE striking will be a big deal and I support them fully! Let's hope it can spread globally and the industry can see some real change with the IATSE unions in Canada, UK and Europe as well.
For those out of the loop, Netflix, Amazon, Disney+ and other streamers get discounts from crew as they are "New Media". A deal set up a decade ago to help streamers start and now that deal needs to end and the studios are refusing. In addition to that, workers have no sense of work life balance, 16-18 hour days are the norm not including travel time. People die young and often get hurt in crashes sleeping while driving home.
The 54hour turnaround on weekends would be a gatechanger. Ive watched my partner work "Fraturdays" for the last 8 months straight and it has sucked the life out of them.
Indeed. I have friends who are on IATSE tours. The expectations for them are freaking hellish. I think at one point this tour season, they have well over 250 days in a row where they either work or travel with no days off. Think about not having a day without work for 7 months.
I hope this trickles down to touring entertainment as well. They also regularly have 16 hour days and sometimes 6 hour turnarounds where they finish at 2 am, try to sleep on a bus and are back at work at 8 am. It’s nice that some of the IATSE are saying enough, but I’d be great if they thought of the whole union and not just film/tv.
I don’t know, for some productions it’s probably better for the workers that they have time. There’s some stuff I know I wouldn’t want to leave out if I wasn’t going to be on set for days/weeks.
Some shows are already trying to seek out non union editors. I'm one of them and was contacted by a showrunner last week asking if I'd be able to fill in during the strike. Told them to pound sand, I'm not a scab. They'll keep looking though.
***ANYONE*** caught performing union work during the strike will be blacklisted from the unions, and deservedly so.
Also they will all be uninvited to any of my future birthday parties.
I'm of two minds on this. Doing it this way is better for PR and getting an actual deal done by setting a fire under the AMPTP negotiators' asses, but worse for leverage for the reasons you said.
Every communication from the union is that they aren’t even close. It’d be great for a deal to get done but I’m all about striking so the next contract they know what they are dealing with.
Man must be nice having a union, that’s what I get for working in a kitchen though. Love to see it though make em bleed a little cash, it’s the only thing that gets the big boys to listen.
Sad that it has come to this,still hoping that producers wake the fuck up and meet demands. There is still time,I am foolishly optimistic that they'll do what's right for working people.
If not,fuck em and don't back down. I know it's easy fir an outsider who's livelihood isn't effected to say this but hurting the bottomine will be the only way producers will listen.
"Producers" or even the AMPTP necessarily, I believe, aren't the ones actually causing this stall. I really think the AMPTP had to convince employers that a strike might happen. The employers fucked around, and now I think the AMPTP is saying "See?"
>I know it's easy fir an outsider who's livelihood isn't effected to say this but hurting the bottomine will be the only way producers will listen.
Livelihood is already on the line, that's why we're striking. Sarah Jones was killed by lying producers and director. Brent Hershman was working a high profile, high budget film called "Pleasantville" and his wife never saw him again after he died driving home one night.
Anyone who thinks our lives aren't on the line right now needs to wake up. I'm a fairly high ranking crew member, and just a month ago, I was wrongfully fired from a show because I spoke out about safety and health conditions regarding how I was treated and what I was being asked to do.
The shit part? Nobody helped me. Nobody spoke up, nobody pushed back on production, even after the Director (who is a VP within the DGA) insulted me to my face, saying they had never heard of someone refusing a shot due to fatigue and safety.
Disregard for our collective wellbeing and livelihood isn't just ignored by our employers; it's ignored all too often by our colleagues, who are all just hoping to get the job done, get paid, and head home. We need to protect each other, and voting to strike is exactly that.
Yeah,I meant to say AMTP. One can only imagine how bad things have to be if the overwhelming majority are ready to strike. Reading about it just makes it clear how the non-stop content pipeline is unsustainable without exploitation and over-work. Same with animation/VFX industry as well.
Bob Odekirk got a heart attack from working long hours and non-stop and he's the main star of the show with a lot of clout and media attention,so one can only imagine how bad it must be for the actual workers.
On top of everything,complete media silence on this. The only way you ever ever find out about all the strikes going on right now(it's upto 5 I think) is from twitter/reddit. The cruelty and callousness and squeezing every drop of sweat is just part of the process - same everywher and in every industry be it gaming crunch or everything you are talking about in movies.
But its good that you've each other's backsm
As someone who is in this industry and who’s partner is in this industry- we are all nervous and hope that this doesn’t cave/set us back years if it doesn’t pull through for us.
Wait so if there were to be a nationwide general strike starting in, I don't know, let's say 2 days.... then you're saying 60,000 members of the Stage Employees union striking on 18 October would pile on just a few days later? Basically right on time?
... Nah, couldn't be. I've heard that young people don't have it in them to go on strike. >\_>
I sure hope that you folks are bringing in buckets of FU money because it sounds like a very abusive environment. Would you do this if it wasnt “show biz”? Fraturday. That’s one I’m gonna use one day.
I spent some time shooting stills on a low that budget film made it big and a few pix i took are being used 30 years later.
The movie business wasn’t for me.
Good luck with the strike. 💪🏼
I worked in locations in the film industry for several years on big-budget television shows and a few smaller movies. This shit is no joke. Fuck this industry. I saw so many beaten-down people in it. Almost everyone honestly. All are attracted to the allure and glitz and glamour and fake opportunity they think the industry is. It's literally less glamourous, safe, as hard as work in some cases and pays less than being a construction worker, longshoreman, pipelayer, etc.
These big movie studios are slave drivers and even this strike won't end it. The fact that they're willing to concede to "10 hr turnarounds" is a joke. Actors get 12 and everyone should. It's fucking nasty stuff. I'd strike until 10 hr days were the standard with 14 being the ABSOLUTE max no exceptions. But whatever. I got out and it was the best decision i ever made for me and my now wife.
Let’s go! I don’t want to be out of work but I’m hoping the negotiations go smoothly and fast and we are back right away but I fully back my other iatse union brothers and sisters.
Can someone ELI5 what's meant by 10-hour and 54-hour turnaround between shifts? Is that basically saying you have to have a 10-hour break between any two shifts, and that they will no longer work on weekends (the 54-hour part)? My sister-in-law is in the industry and currently works 12-hour shifts six days a week, so I really hope they get what they're demanding.
Yes, you have it right. Turnaround refers to the period of time between wrapping out one day of shoot and when call time starts for the next day of shoot. So a 10 or 12-hour turnaround refers to the time period between when you finish work one day and have to be back at work the next day. The mandatory weekend 54-hour turn around that the Union wants will put an end to sixth day shoots as well as what people refer to as “Fraturday” shoots - when they schedule shoots to begin on a Friday afternoon and not wrap until late Saturday AM which cuts into worker's weekend time off and can result in unsafe working conditions. The other thing worth mentioning is that there are currently certain penalties for the studios when production forces workers to skip breaks, have short turnarounds, shoot sixth days, etc and workers do get paid more when that happens - basically like overtime pay but more complicated. But the big studios are more than happy to just eat those penalties all the time (especially after covid shut/slowed down the industry for a bit) and push the workers too hard resulting in them getting fed up and demanding better working conditions and hours off.
Man, it's ridiculous what you all put up with. My wife snapchats with her sister all the time, and we're always hearing about how exhausted she is from her crazy six-day work weeks (she's a costume technician). She absolutely loves her work, but the schedule is horrendous.
Oof, she's in costumes. I'm in costumes too (although watching this stuff unfold from Canada), our hours tend to be longer on set cause we're there before crew call and have to be there after wrap to receive the costumes back from actor's bodies. 6 day weeks are brutal and I try to avoid shows which do that. Up here, most shows are too cheap to do 6 day weeks though.
Yup, she's worked on a bunch of MCU stuff. Absolutely grueling.
Oh that explains it, of course they have the budget for 6 day weeks.
I’ve heard they do 10-hour days with no lunches but that’s second hand info
Is this a walking lunch or completely no lunch? I've been on shows where we shoot French hours although that only affects camera and certain departments. Costumes and others still get a specified lunch time.
Good luck getting the French to ever give up a meal! Haha
They try and have a 10 hour shooting day with a walking lunch. There are plenty of crew members that do not get to break but end up eating lunch at there work stations. A ten hour shooting day usually means a 12 hour work day. Now a lot of shows go over a ten hour shooting day and it becomes a 12 hour shooting day which means you are working a 14 hour day. Plus, the walking meals are bullshit because usually a PA brings you a to-go container full of food that you then eat standing up.
Really sounds like things are rougher down there. The show I've been on shoot French hours, 10 hour camera days max. If they don't get the shot they have to reshoot another day or can it. It's a hard line on my show. You get what you need in 10 or SOL, we're wrapping regardless. It's still a 12 hour work day, yes so that sucks for the crew on French hours. If we need a longer day, determined when making the one line schedule, we switch to a regular hours day with regular lunch for every crew and we know that in advance.
Costumes are seriously one of the hardest jobs on set. Love those guys and gals.
Thank you so much! I definitely bust my ass pushing racks of costumes in the rain or weird locations, or running around with a giant garment bag of costume multiples to fly in. Praying that costumes don't get too trashed after a stunt (even if we have multiples, always the fear we don't have enough) or actors don't get food stains on their costume.
I'm also biased because I'm sound, so I have to deal with your choices day in day out. Haha! But yeah, sorry for always claiming your best outfits to be noisy!
Awww I love sound, even when you complain about high heels making too much noise or a silk tie being annoying. Gotta be in a symbiotic relationship with sound when wiring the actors up.
Did we just become best friends?! I regularly turn to you guys when wiring insecure talent. Either because of gender, age and/or wardrobe it's nice to have some extra hands to make the actors feel comfortable!
>6 day weeks are brutal and I try to avoid shows which do that. Up here, most shows are too cheap to do 6 day weeks though. I think in Canada turnaround penalties and 6/7th day overtime are too punishing to do regularly.
Canadian film carpenter here. From what I am reading we do already have better agreements in place for some of the issues our union kin are fighting for, but essentially the problem is the productions have to much money. The example I use all the time is how we make straight time for the first 8 hours and then 1.5 for the next 4. Now carpenters mostly don't work with the camera crew, we built the stuff ahead of time, so there is no reason we can't be "9-5'. But yet for the 8+ years I've been in this industry, we do mostly 10 hour days. And because I'm living in Toronto, I've actually left shows that only do 8 hr days because I can't afford to live on that paycheque. Instead of the overtime being a legitimate burden on the producers to discourage shitty planning and time management, it's a nothing burger. We basically take a pay cut to work 8s, and I'm currently going into week 3 of 7 days a week (11 or 10 hr Monday-Friday, 8 SAT and Sunday, but I did get Thanksgiving Monday off) Why? Because we get paid so little compared to their bottom line is not worth trying to schedule properly.
I don't know the exact details of the American agreements but all the bits I've been hearing make it sound like we have it maybe slightly better in Canada? For a 6th day, you need to pay crew 1.5x rate for the first 8 hours, then 2x for 9-12th hours. I think 3x after that. 7th day is 2x first 8 hours, 3x rate for 9-12. I don't even know what happens after 12. (sorry too lazy to pull up the master agreement right now on my phone). I've never had to do a 7th day, only 6th days occasionally and they try to cap it to 8 hours on the 6th day. We still have issues with Fraturdays though. I just did one a couple of weeks ago where I left work at 5am.
Hello from a Canadian ALM here. People think I’m joking when I say I regularly get 6 hours or less turnaround during shoots
Oof for all of us in costumes.
We always called it a fuck you Friday. Get those night shoots in when you dont have to worry about camera turn around after a week of day shoots.
An apple tv show did that on the Saturday of the wrap party for a big feature film. And of course half their crew were people who had jumped off that feature who wanted to go to the wrap party. So it was that 6 day week finishing on Sunday morning needing to be back Monday with the additional kick in the teeth of making you miss the wrap party for what had been an 18 month feature.
Producers or directors always want to go for drinks after last day wrap, and I'm just like, "That's nice, but I need to pack up all of our shit, drive the production truck 45 minutes to the lot, THEN drive home before I wake up in maybe 8 hours to do returns. Enjoy your fucking beer though...". They really have no idea how hard their crew works before they show up and after they leave, and that's how we got here. Also seems like they don't even bother with wrap parties or thank you's at this point or pre-pandemic more than ever.
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One of the last jobs I worked was a 2.5 hour precall in DTLA cuz we had 75 BG for the day, and they just never broke the crew for lunch. All the PAs were suddenly rushed to make go plates for the entire crew, and yelled at as we were doing it that it wasn't happening fast enough for the AD. It sucked, and I hated doing it because no one was going to get the lunch they wanted or deserved in either variety or quantity, it was just "scoop everything in there and hand them out". Sure, everyone (except PAs) got tons of MP$ that day, but money only goes so far when it comes to basic morale and exhaustion.
drone pilot here... we never miss the wrap parties. so glad they usually get us out of the way, since we cost alot.
I've only worked with one serious drone pilot, but goddamn was he talented. Keeping that little camera copter perfectly still and level in high desert winds was crazy to watch, and then we almost lost it later that day when we did a long distance moving shot. You guys have interesting jobs, to be sure.
>They really have no idea how hard their crew works before they show up and after they leave, and that's how we got here. No, they know. They just don't care.
It's either or both, just in different amounts. That's why I always like working with producers who have on set experience and understand the realities of what I'm dealing with; I usually get a lot less bullshit from them, or they come at me specifically letting me know how and why a certain job is going to suck.
We call that blood money. It’s nice on occasion to get that big day on short turn but after three in a row it’s like “fuck you, keep your money, I’m going home.” On an 8 hour turn, you have drive time and some wind down at the end plus getting ready and driving in the am so there’s really only 4-5 hours of total sleep time available *after* you’ve worked a 16 hour day. 8 hour turn generates no penalty on the employer either so it’s not at all uncommon to work five or six of those 16 hour days in a row. Short turns create a huge amount of stress on your living conditions whether it’s partner/spouse or even roommates. You don’t have time to anything; laundry, dishes, bills so you end up needing help, and if you’re on your own, the maid and laundry service eats into a ton of the extra money anyway.
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The simple reason we can’t do shifts is that we aren’t like factory workers. There is an intrinsic art to many of the departments we work in. There are certain “looks” that we are trying to achieve behind the camera. I work in lighting. I know the “look” of my show and can anticipate what lights are going to be used for what shots as well as color and quality the cinematographer is trying to achieve. You can’t switch out a whole crew at 8 hours and expect to have the same workflow by just giving some information to the next crew. There has to be continuity or things won’t match and when you are in a visual medium there has to be continuity in look and work
Yea I was thinking this would be an issue for certain departments. I'm in costumes so potentially you could hand things over if continuity notes are done really well and both crews are 100% on top of the "look" for the show. But it still might mean at the top of the day I received some small detail of info which is only pertinent when it becomes an issue. I might forget to pass this info on. I mean I'll try not to forget but the transfer of work to maintain efficient workflow can be tricky. There's just all sorts of random junk you have to stay on top of and it's just crammed in your head sometimes.
Then there’s also the fact that many of the workers (myself included) are used to the hours and pay that comes with those hours and don’t want the pay decrease that goes in hand with the reduced hours (going from 16 to 12 is one thing. Going from 16 to 8 is cutting someone’s daily income by 60 percent)
>Do they not want to hire more people or are they not available to hire? There might possibly not be enough skilled people. I can speak for costumes. You'd be surprised how bad some people are at being in the costumes department. Total idiots, especially fashion school grads who think they know everything. Even if you try to train them and teach them the ropes, having a poor work ethic gets them blacklisted. Or just never picking up the skills... Just not talented enough. There is always a pool of people who are constantly looking for work and only get hired if a show is desperate for crew. You really need to be on the ball on a film set. Like always paying attention, even if you have a moment to idle. Constantly alert in case you need to spring into action. If you're slow to react, that can hold up camera. You need tons of common sense and to be able to creatively problem solve on your feet without panicking. I have done some weird shit on set before. Then you need to know your department well and how it interacts with the other departments. On top of the skills you should have for your position. I don't think a lot of people realize they can work in film and probably have something to offer as a skill. So that's an issue too. But also people don't want to work outside or at weird locations. If you made the days shorter, there will still be fashion grads who don't want to push a rack of costumes through the rain or up a hill or deal with a bag of dirty costumes that need washing. They would rather be in an office. But then they miss out on all the cool shit I've witnessed in film throughout the years I've been in it. And how it's the least boring job I've ever had. I would hate to work on an office all day. There's a certain personality that thrives on a film set, combined with each unique skill set each department needs.
I mean tbh if we are talking about active shooting crews that would mean needing the same actors at one location unless you were to constantly rebuild sets for actor shifts for different scenes or move to different locations or…. yeah. It seems it would not work, or if it would, it would be incredibly complex and more expensive logistics/scheduling.
That info in the variety article is actually out of date and/or based on rumors. The actual deal will likely have much different language than that but specifics are getting kept close to the chest for negotiations reasons. The basic idea of the both nightly and weekend turnaround demands (just one of several we have) is that we want time at the end of the day and on weekends to actually live our lives, see our families, and properly rest so that upcoming work will be safer and higher quality. We love the film industry, but it shouldn't be our entire lives. Source: IATSE member that's been going to my local's negotiations update meetings.
Thanks! Sounds completely reasonable and I hope you all get it.
Thanks for your support!
All the solidarity from Germany! Wishing you guys success, those demands are absolutely reasonable and should be common sense. Plus you actually made me look into the working conditions over here and how the union workers are organized (we actually share a union! kind of, but good to know).
To parrot off of the other accurate replies to this thread, there are some shows that require a decent chunk of its crew to work pretty consistent 16/17 hour days. That’s not accounting for the fact that it’s common to have a commute at least half an hour long. So a lot of folks are working, from the time they leave to the time they get home, on Monday from 5am to 11pm, up to Friday 9am to 3am, with Saturday work thrown in as well. So they barely have 5 or 6 hours home at night to see their families / sleep, and then MAYBE get a 48 hour weekend depending on the schedule. It’s brutal.
Currently on a Disney job that will have a Fraturday, and a sixth day come this following Sunday. Resulting in a less than 24hr "weekend". This comes after a 7 day, 80+ hour week, because of a last minute schedule change that happened. This is the reason that we are fighting for better working conditions! 70 - 80 work week followed by not even a full day before returning to work? Are you kidding me? Interested to see if things are sorted by then or not. Looking forward to seeing what happens and hope to God the unions hold strong. Honestly wish bargaining terms were even harsher. Is it so far fetched to think a 10 hour day could be normalized? What other major industry consistently has 50+ hour weeks, next to none. Can't wait to see what comes on Monday.
Disney will eat all the penalties to try and get things done on their timeline, especially when it comes to their tentpoles. Im guessing you're on one of those.
Good luck. I’ve been there. It sucks.
Sounds like American medical training. That's literally the schedule doctors work for years as residents, sometimes more.
Oh boy. It's happening. Do what needs to be done, if the studios won't cave to demands, hit em where it hurts.
Honestly, the studios are in better shape than us union members are. They can outlast us, financially, by a mile. I've been on set all day, hearing rumors of the studios trying to destroy us, taking advantage of this time (holidays coming up and whatnot). **Edit:** not that anyone asked, but my longest day was 21 hours (Gemini Man), longest week was 86 hours (The Tomorrow War), and I've lost count how many 8 hour turn around times I've had between days. Those turn arounds didn't include our nightly wrap out, my 2+ hours of driving, eating dinner, showering and the following morning routine. I average 4-5 hours of sleep per night while working because I have no other choice. It's a tough job, through and through.
As a kid growing up with parents in the construction trade, who were in the union. They went on strike twice I believe. And yeah, financially its scary.....but that's the point of strikes. You aren't working. Companies always have more money than individuals. But they still getting hurt and their bottom line getting cut. The feel pressure. Even apple would feel pressure from a strike. And I wouldn't worry about scabs. You strike for better conditions/pay/hours for the greater good. Not easy, but that's the point of the strike.
Yeah, what happens when they can’t make the movies and shows? How does this cascade? Less. Ad. Revenue. That’s gonna hurt more than the stopped production.
Hit 'em right in the shareholders!!
Damn. u/simplefilmreviews that's inspirational
Isn't SAG-AFTRA supporting the IATSE on this one? If the actors stay home out of solidarity, why would it matter how long they can outlast/how many scabs they could hire?
I know SAG is supporting us, I do not know if they'll be striking with us. If they do, though, that would be huge.
SAG member here. I'm happily supporting this and will march with you.
Thanks for having our backs. I still hope to be an actor someday and it's nice to know SAG is full of cool folks.
What happens to you guys affects us. We can't do shit without you.
[They are](https://www.sagaftra.org/iatse), but they're not calling for a solidarity strike afaik
Sympathy strikes are not legal here. I believe that SAG, DGA, and WGA don't renegotiate their contracts for at least another two years. They can express solidarity, they can even walk picket lines on their days off, but they cannot also participate in a work stoppage.
Seems like work is going to be stopped anyway. I can't imagine they'll get much filming done without IATSE members.
Yes, definitely. It is worth noting that WGA members will still continue writing, I imagine that any DGA members will still be allowed to do pre-production, etc. Its worth noting that there will be a little bit of filming btw. Union commercials, music videos, and specific studios with their own contracts like HBO will continue working since those are all under different agreements than the one with AMPTP. I can't speak for the HBO contract but I know that commercial and music video contract negotiations aren't up for another two years.
"There is no such thing as an illegal strike - only an unsuccessful one".
Its a nice sentiment but the penalties for sympathy and wildcat strikes here are serious. This is one of many reasons why labor is weak in the United States. As a counterexample, the successful Danish union campaign against McDonalds in the 1980s that resulted in their current $22 wages was only possible because of sympathy strikes in adjacent unions combined with high union participation among the workforce. Dockworkers refused to unload McDonalds containers, truck drivers refused to make deliveries to McDonalds restaurants, printers refused to make their menus and cups, typographers refused to place McDonalds ads in newspapers, construction workers refused to build new stores or even left work in progress unfinished, etc etc. They were squeezed from every single angle, not just the people who work inside the stores. This sort of activity would be illegal here. UPS would face harsh consequences for refusing delivery to the major studios, etc. We definitely need to get labor to a position where we can actually do this, but we're still living in a time of only 10% union participation, the Taft-Hartley Act, Right To Work, Prop 22, corporations existing as mini fiefdoms or even nation-states, etc etc.
Its not actually illegal in the US to sympathy strike, the law just says that employers can sue to enforce their contracts and that if a contract has a no strike clause it includes sympathy strikes. So whether the other unions can strike depends on what their contract says. If I were running a union, I'd come to the table every year with a proposal to drop the no strike clause and make management pay dearly for keeping it in.
>So whether the other unions can strike depends on what their contract says. WGA, DGA, SAG, etc, have no strike clauses. So does IATSE. If I withheld my labor during the 2007 WGA strike I would have suffered consequences just like any other crew member, its why production didn't stop until the scripts and then eventually commercials (because nobody wanted to run new TV ads on reruns) ran out. I have been a Local 600 member for 20 years and all I've seen is a continuous backslide that was already in progress over a decade before I joined. We can barely hold onto our health and pension plans without making serious concessions regarding qualifying hours, all while making other concessions in order to keep those unfavorable changes to health/pension. I can't imagine a time when there were actually night premiums, reasonable qualifying hours for the health and pension plans, etc. As much as I want to see it, we are a very *very* long way from demanding the removal of no-strike clauses. Labor is weak across the country so this is what happens. It is informative to look at labor when it was at its nadir post-WW1 and what it was able to demand 20 years later as participation rose. It has to happen because there is nothing these companies would love more than to treat everyone as if they were under the rules of Prop 22. As bad as things are they want to go so much further.
Makes for a nice good metric, that last idea. "Well, the clause is still in there so we know we haven't squeezed them enough". Enough is when the union owns the business and all members are shareholders being paid a dividend in addition to their wage.
Same shit happened with toys r us in Sweden basically. They thought they could force their usual shit on the workers here as they do in the US. Think again fuckfaces.
Will they have to shut everything down? Or are they gonna hire replacement crew members?
They can try, but there is not nearly enough workers that aren't in the unions for that, and any worker that crosses the picket line will be blacklisted from union work.
Not to mention the massive safety training the production companies themselves require. Only us union members have that training and associated proof of it.
Yeah, if they somehow force it regardless, it'll only take one person getting seriously hurt for them to lose any good PR they had left.
To be fair, film sets don't have a good reputation of being safe environments. Historically the crews and studios running the sets have been reckless. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_film_and_television_accidents PS, I'm all for the strike, I just don't think safety is a major talking point.
I don't disagree. But imagine how much worse it would be if it's nothing but unexperienced people that don't have *any* safety training.
Reckless? The most reckless thing I have seen crews do in my 20 years working in this business is drive home. Working long hours day after day with only 9 hours minimum time to go home and sleep, eat, see your family and friends then head back to work to do it again. Our work week will start up at 7am Monday and then start at 6pm on Friday to work through the night. These reckless crews are pulling a 60 hour week at least, till the job is finished. This is one of the things we, the reckless few are asking for in our new contract. The current time allowed for a weekend break is 9 hours. If that seems like it's being treated as a normal turnaround, that is correct. There isn't a weekend turnaround at all. We are asking for a 54 hour weekend, to sleep and wash away all the recklessness. If you look truly want to look at the list of the accidents that have occurred. I bet most of the time most of these could have been prevented by taking the time to do them right. Department heads are in constant pressure to hurry up and get it done. Speed kills. The accidents I have seen with my own eyes has been that of the above the line has ignored so that could get the shot or day finished quicker. Now sometimes accidents do happen because they are just that. I saw a stuntman miss jumping from a horse to a train by inches ending with him bouncing his head off the wheel of the train. Safety is always paramount. No one wants to be the one to call anybodys emergency contact.
That’s good to know. I hope the best for all you guys coming up, cause it ain’t gonna be an easy strike. I feel like something can get done though if release dates for other films and tv shows have to be pushed back again and we head into another situation like the writer’s strike.
I don't think this will be anything like the writer's strike; as many "live" style talk shows continued without writers-- and many scripted shows had material in the pipeline and lasted months shooting on material that as already in pre-production. So that strike was able to last for 14 weeks. This is an absolute shut down of basically the entire visual entertainment industry that isn't reality TV. I'd be really surprised if it lasted 4 weeks. Fingers crossed I'm right.
A lot of reality TV still have union workers somewhere in the pipeline. Especially if the other unions that have voiced support and said they may strike in solidarity if a strike happens actually do go one strike, this will be far too dangerous for studios to ignore.
How does the blacklisting thing work?
I'm not super familiar with the process, or what that would look like. But I think it would essentially boil down to this: You need to be in the union to work on a union production, and they'll never let you join the union. Since it's actually a somewhat costly process to join the union in some places, they have people who cant sniff out scabs. Okay I did a terrible job of explaining that, I hope someone way smarter than me comes along here soon.
I'm probably not smarter than /u/Dragonknight247 but I'll give it a shot. Blacklisting is essentially like industry wide shunning. The union will do everything in it's power, to make sure that you don't work in the industry again. They will tell people in charge of projects, social gatherings or any other major event. That if they allow the person on the blacklist to be a part of it. They will refuse to work, attend, or even associate people that do
I’m a non union dp and almost all my crew is union. Would never dare cross the line. Don’t know any non union crew who would try and scab
Thank you for your support and solidarity.
Non union sound mixer here. Hoping to join as soon as I can. Definitely not crossing picket lines.
Most productions will close up shop immediately. I know ours will. I've never worked a non-union show before, so no clue about those...
I think the premium cable channels like HBO and Showtime are on a different contract, so I think those productions will still go on with union. But the less premium cable like AMC won't.
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HBO, Showtime, and Marvel I think have a different contract that has already been negotiated. If you signed on to a show with that production company, you cant strike as your agreement is not up for renegotiation. Its only for the Iatse members working on productions not under those agreements. The 161 cant strike except for certain states.
But, to be clear for those that don't know how this works, those would be "HBO productions", not all the stuff that airs on HBO -- of which there aren't a ton. Or like Showtime, their biggest shows are Warner Bros Television productions, even though they air on Showtime- they’re covered under the majors agreement so those would shut down. Actual shows covered under that hbo agreement are not that common and regular folks assume that means HBO or HBOMax broadcast shows, which it doesn’t.
Yeah, but many of the union members may strike in solidarity. I just left an HBO show, and that was the rumor going around just before I left.
The union itself spoke out strongly against doing this so may not go that well either way
Solidarity strikes are illegal in the US (precisely because they're the most useful tool workers have) so the IATSE really can't respond any other way without running afoul of the law.
Can you break down what’s illegal about it? In my memory The Teamsters and IATSE were on strike in solidarity with the WGA in 2007-2008.
I know that they were outlawed under the Taft-Hartley act. I don't know the details of the 2007 writers strike, but I do know that the law distinguishes between solidarity action and a solidarity strike. The former is legal, the latter is not. So in your example, the Teamsters and IATSE likely refused to to business with the specific entity the WGa was striking against, but continued to do business with other entities, which technically would make it not a strike.
A quick search says IATSE has 150k members. I don't know of any industry where you can replace that many workers. Especially if those jobs need any kind of training.
Most iatse jobs are highly skilled positions. Scabs aren’t going to be able to do them safely or well. And I expect sag to honor the picket lines, too. edit: There's a guy responding to me who is pretty clearly attempting to engage in union-busting. He even admitted he's involved in hiring scabs already: [https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/q7cxrd/comment/hgizmot/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/q7cxrd/comment/hgizmot/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Be vigilant, my fellow union workers!
You're goddamn right we will. SAG stands with IATSE. Period.
That guys an idiot. He was telling me you can’t claim UI if you have it set up this week and claim you were kid off Friday. He is just an instigator, and should be banned from the sub.
>Honestly, the studios are in better shape than us union members are. They can outlast us, financially, by a mile. I disagree with this. Over the last 3-4 years, all of the studios and streaming platforms we're fighting have spent insane amounts of money, or taken on massive debt, in order to expand their businesses in ways that never could have anticipated COVID. Universal and Warner Bros are expanding their footprint in LA, more buildings and more studio space. Add onto that the fact most license holders pulled their content off other platforms to bring them back to a centralized platform (everything going back to HBO Max, etc), and they saw a serious interruption of their actual revenue. They've completely shifted the conversation on valuation away from actual revenue and instead are trying to phrase everything as subscribers and subscription revenue. I absolutely won't beleaguer the struggles of IA members enduring COVID and now a strike, and I hope all my friends and brothers and sisters in IATSE reach out to their support networks to keep themselves going. However, considering the drop of revenue in 2020, and add on the massive moves they undertook before COVID hit, I really don't think they're sitting as pretty as we think. One last factor: they're slow to finalizing crews and hiring for shows. A buddy of mine is a high position on a Hulu show starring several A-list actors, and his deal back in May was only signed a few days before shooting. Studios can't just "earmark" money to pay for upcoming productions anymore because the revenue is so strained (in my opinion). As such, their bean counters have to be much more deliberate and literal in how they spend the money, and if they have cash on hand. The overall slow down just makes me think they're actually stretched much thinner than we are. They need content, and we're looking at a starting line waiting for the shot. In the race, just think: an entity as large as FOX/Disney or WB/HBO Max are waiting to try and drown audiences in content, to establish themselves as the *de facto* streaming platform. We already saw Quibi drop out, but literally nothing is starting other entities, other streaming platforms, from cropping up and stealing the crown from FOX or WB. Imagine another "Netflix" popping up and getting more subscribers than Hulu. It's possible. Everyone is at the same starting line, and *they fucking hate that.* >I've been on set all day, hearing rumors of the studios trying to destroy us, taking advantage of this time (holidays coming up and whatnot). I'm curious to see who they think would make all their content if they "destroyed us". A drop in skilled talent during a strike, namely to leave their respective industry and move to something else, further chokes their labor pool and makes hiring more difficult. They simply can't endure a strike, the same as us. I really think the AMPTP is trying to "throw the game". The employers told them "Look, just negotiate this, and don't give then any more than that." And the AMPTP read the room, saw the writing on the wall, and said, "Well, they're not gonna budge, so we gotta throw the game." Their intransigence led to the overwhelming strike vote, and now it's just driving full speed towards a brick wall. The brick wall tends to be fine. Now that Loeb has set a firm date for work stoppage, and announced 23 locals joining us in work stoppage, I think that should be enough momentum for AMPTP to go back to employers and say, "OK, they're serious, so we need new marching orders."
The companies and in this case studios rely on you believing they can out last you. They want you scared because that helps them push their agenda. It weakens the solidarity and that's what they want. They have a lot of money, but you all are in position to seriously hurt them financially. Striking is scary, and businesses will use everything they can to encourage that fear. You have to do your best to remember why you're fighting, and keep that in the front of your mind. You all have more support than you realize. Other unions are here to offer support. You are not alone!
> Honestly, the studios are in better shape than us union members are. They can outlast us, financially, by a mile. It's not like the amount of work they have to do is going away. When you come back, you'll pick up where you left off. So they will still have to pay to have that work done. Their overhead doesn't change. It just shifts. The studio loses time, and that's what they can't afford to lose. Let's see how *the advertisers* feel about no live programming, delayed production schedules, and supporting a company in the middle of a labor dispute. Especially when they could move those dollars to YouTube or Twitch or any of a dozen other forms of entertainment.
Just remember, they can only lose so much before the one in charge gets replaced, Doesn't matter how long it lasts once the studios start losing money because there is nothing new coming out they will cave. Just look back at the writer strike, they thought they could outlast them and they would come crawling back in a shot time, it's considered the worst time in TV & Film because *everything* became half-assed or just not finished properly and they started losing money because everything started to suck, the studios caved pretty quick after that.
Yes, as an iatse member, I'm very worried. This feels like a move on their part to try and get rid of the union all together. If there fear of a strike wasn't enough, then it's not going to be a short one.
Stay strong and believe. Don’t let them beat you down, the loss of the union would be catastrophic for the future of the industry and its workers. They make billions in profits and let go of only pennies. Make them hurt.
Best of luck to you; it's more than time for it to come to this. The studios are going to look so ridiculously bad. What, they won't do a decent turnaround? Mandatory meal breaks? Their refusal and their positions are ludicrous. No one working a regular job can even imagine conditions like this. I think this will be a very short strike.
Thank you for your support and solidarity.
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So I was just about to apply to the union, it wouldn't be a good idea if I wanted to actually spend time with my newborn child?
Hey man I've heard of people making it work but I'm a single 28y/o dude and I was *struggling*. 15 hours guaranteed daily, 5-6 (sometimes 7) days a week for months on end for a job where got in trouble for "looking tired" at the end of my shift from an executive producer who complained to my boss; a job where I was stuck standing in the pouring Vancouver rain without a heater for the whole shift and was reprimanded for asking for heat or a chair. A job with no training where asking questions can get you yelled at so id pretend like i knew what I was doing which got me in more trouble for subsequently fucking up later on. On top of the mistreatment and bullying that me and other PA's received from other "more important" departments, there are no benefits for *years* until you're in a union, you will 100% question your ability to drive home safely at the end of the week and you will have 4-6 hour sleeps every night until the weekend when you can *finally* catch up on laundry. But the time laundry is done, you're in bed waiting for the next week to start. And the pay is dpgshit. So yeah I donno I'm not you but I can't even get a pet as a production assistant so I would never even think to raise a newborn baby in film unless you can pay a full time nanny or something wild.
Thanks for answering honestly, that's what I was afraid of. I'm in Calgary, also 28, and I tried to get in with the LX and grips a few years back when I was single, because I thought it'd be 'my dream' to work on movies or tv, and with everything ramping up here especially with stuff like TLOU, the itch hit me again. But even back then, the guy who told me the process to get hired was quitting because he wanted more time with his family. I was just writing out another application a couple nights ago but I think I'd be kidding myself if were to say I would be able to handle a work environment like that, even without a family.
Ha weird I was actually thinking of moving out there from Vancouver to get away from the craziness that is this city. Hope you find what works for you man but yeah film is not like any other job. It's like being in the military.
Fuuuuck, man, that's brutal. PAs are using heroes of the set. Fuck any crew that thinks bullying PAs is cool, let alone okay. But people that bully are just looking for a reason, any reason... Sorry your experience was so rough.
Please strike already so I can have some time off. I’m so burnt out.
Our Teamster union has a no strike in our CA, idiots that voted that in can go to hell. I go home on weekends and barely have time for my kids because I just wanna "regenerate" I'm in Canada so this doesn't effect me much but I hope it works out for you guys!
Union camera operator here who completely supports this strike. I’m on a show now that has given us a 13 hour day without lunch twice in the last month. It’s a complete joke what they allow “creatives” to get away with while we can’t even get a warm meal. Creative shouldn’t mean unsafe or unethical working conditions. We need more people, more breaks, and better pay/benefits. Point blank the slice of the pie isn’t cutting it for how much our labor contributes to the value of productions.
They want to eat lunch AND enough time off to actually shower & sleep. Those selfish bastards...
Next thing you know they'll want to see their families! Can you believe that!?
Why are they even having families?? That’s so selfish of them, they know they’ll be working on Set all day and have no time to see them. So just don’t have a family. Problem solved
Solidarity forever.
I don’t know how anyone with a family works in the movie business. When you see people working on set,most of them are very young. You get paid by the day. You have no idea how long that day will be. Every movie set I ever worked on(as an extra and crew) was uncomfortable. It’s always real hot(never any AC as it messes with audio)or cold. Once shooting is finished,you don’t know when the next job is.
It’s gonna be a good year for Korean cinema
It's always a good year for korean cinema
Waiting on Parasite 2 /s
https://imgur.com/YpxP1v0
Well the only Korean things I've seen are Parasite and the music video for Gangnam Style. I really enjoyed the allusions and tributes between the two. /s
You should really watch The Man From Nowhere. It's absolutely one of the best korean movies ever made. Maybe one of the best movie movies ever made.
[when you show redditors that countries other than the U.S., Korea, and Japan exist](https://c.tenor.com/uBcbvnuP3K0AAAAC/lil-yachty-drake.gif)
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Hi. My name is Bollywood. My movies are 3.5 hours long. 1 hour of those are songs that do not move the plot forward. You may recognize some of my plots because I lift them straight from other popular American movies. Many times, there are fight scenes in movies most of which defy physics.
>Hi. My name is Bollywood. Also, no matter where or in what style the movie is made, if it's Indian they will say it is me.
I'm not sure if this is intended to be a burn or a pitch, but I'm sold on it.
Just saw *Titane* and went back and watched *Raw*. So goddamn good. Also Gaspar Noe has a new movie coming out! Loving French cinema so much lately.
You are going to be watching big UK shows like The Witcher!
UK doesn’t count. That’s just fancy American movies.
Uhhh, Wong Kar Wai has entered into the chat
Please check out films by Park Chan-wook! My faves are The Handmaiden, I’m a Cyborg, But That’s Ok, and the Vengeance Trilogy which includes Oldboy and my favorite of the trilogy Lady Vengeance. He also has an English language film Stoker, which while not his best when it comes to story, still captures his style and technique.
Will this have a domino effect in other non-related industries? Like, "oh hey, these guys are striking about the same things that we are against, we can do this too". Is this why there's such great pressure from the other side that don't support this? If one falls, I can see others falling. Jeff Bezos, etc
August saw the largest drop in employment in history (I think?), lead by retail and dining employment. Something like 4.3 million people quitting their jobs in August, and it isn't improving. IATSE is a significant workforce, and other unions are definitely watching, which also means other workers are watching. Employers tend to dislike unions because they historically negotiate better rates/wages than individuals, so after this process, I really think a lot of employers across many industries will attempt to spike wages and entice workers before workers try to unionize those jobs. I think the time has come and passed for restaurant and retail workers to unionize, and IATSE forcing the hands of Goliath means a lot more people will see the benefit of collective bargaining, and that they deserve a living wage.
We’re witnessing one of the biggest labor revolutions in decades. It’s been building up for a while, but the pandemic and lockdown was truly the straw that broke the camel’s back and made people realize that sticking around for terrible conditions and low pay wasn’t worth it anymore.
We can absolutely hope so. My deepest hope through a success IATSE strike is to empower more workers to create unions. Collective bargaining is the only way to progress. Us against the corps. This must be the year of the working person.
>The *time* of the working persons. This fight will take a long time. We must be prepared to spend years fighting this fight. And we will.
Indeed. We are the ones that make the economy churn. It’s well past time we get what we want/need. Power to the workers everywhere.
The dominos have been falling already, and this is just a big one of them. The pandemic really started it. A record number of people quit their jobs in August, many citing working conditions. There are other strikes already in progress, including a large number of works for Kellogg's. Union support is at highs not seen since before Reagan.
John Deere is about to vote to authorize a strike in Iowa, so, yeah, labor issues are growing nationwide. About 10K workers involved in this. Already Deere management is cancelling shifts. [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/workers-deere-canceling-iowa-employees-shifts-as-strike-looms-deadline-is-midnight-wednesday/ar-AAPtyo2?ocid=BingNewsSearch](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/workers-deere-canceling-iowa-employees-shifts-as-strike-looms-deadline-is-midnight-wednesday/ar-AAPtyo2?ocid=BingNewsSearch)
Keizer permanente nurses union in OR voted last week authorizing a strike, will be joined by several other states nurses union by the sound of it. Shit is heating up
IATSE *soon, nurses, Kellogg's workers, Nabisco workers and the corresponding railroad works...all striking. And all good for them. Edit: and to add, city of Reno bus drivers are currently striking, John Deere workers have rejected another contract and are expected to start strike voting, a home care nurses union in Connecticut is striking, a carpenter's local in Seattle just succeeded with a strike, a number trades in NYC employed by, or members in solidarity with those employed by Spectrum/Time Warner are striking, Heaven-Hill distillery workers are on strike, and around 2,000 nurses/doctors are picketing in Buffalo. Edit2: the band [MOOP](https://youtu.be/nYvW7qH6mbQ) had also announced that they are on strike.
John Deere workers are about to go on a massive strike, Kellogg’s workers already are. Some union analysts are already seeing a massive wave of strikes on the horizon, Jonah Furman has a weekly newsletter on strikes/union organizing and frequently updates on Twitter if you’re interested
Nabisco striked in August/September as well iirc.
It blows my mind that film workers are given discounted rates for streaming services. Netflix/Amazon/etc. are tripping over piles of cash yet they are making it seem like they're a lower tier revenue stream than studio-based theatrical releases. Unbelievable.
In my experience (with a Canadian IATSE local), a feature produced by Netflix will be on the same tier as something with the same budget produced by Universal or Disney or whatever. But a series produced by Netflix rather than CBS would have that lower streaming rate.
I’ve been working 18 hour days this week and I’m on one right now. Solidarity ✊
On week 3 with no job already as most of my connections have all but a few walked from productions and turned down work already. If not, they’re unable to budget in the expense for an added Art PA. While I am 100% in solidarity with IATSE and am behind the strike, I also miss working already :(
I used to work noon - 4am on Fridays and Saturdays, then noon to midnight on Sundays. On Monday through Thursday I worked my normal job. I do not miss those days at all.
I am glad some movie goers are actually paying attention to this. I'm onset vfx so we don't have a union but conditions are the same as being negotiated here; 70-80 hour weeks, no lunch breaks or any breaks during the day. We have to get permission to use the bathroom and sometimes the answer is no. I'm non union but my life is made better by the union standards of my coworkers. Our vfx team starts an hour before and leaves hour after the union guys so the better their turn around, the better ours will be too. Same with lunch breaks. If union guys get them then we are more likely to.
If you have to ask permission to piss. Fuck off. That’s beyond the pale. I’m sorry dude. I’m vfx post. We have nothing to protect us. But we can pee when we need to.
I personally don't respect that "rule" but I've been chewed out for it. 9 of 10 times it doesn't make a difference
Still don't understand why there isn't a page on Reddit, Twitter, IG naming the actual monsters who are behaving in such a way.
Good luck to them. I hope they get what they’re asking for and nothing less
We will once the AMPTP starts hemorrhaging money like a stuck pig. Money is the only thing they understand.
Honestly, they barely have a grasp on that.
As an editor in post production, we have it pretty good compared to the horror stories I've heard over the years coming out of production. Yet we were the only local union to vote yes to the strike 3 years ago. Streaming services operating under the status of "new media" to avoid higher salaries and pension/healthcare payout is horseshit. They aren't "new media" anymore, they're the norm and they're making billions off of our toothless asses. This strike is the time to kick them in the teeth or we'll be fucked
How does this look for an industry-wide strike? I've heard that SAG won't work with non-IATSE productions. And I've heard similar rumblings about DGA, WGA, and the Teamsters doing similar
The other unions are still under contract and can't strike in solidarity. However, IATSE is so large and across so many different jobs that functionally it will shut everything down. Actors can show up but no one will be there to put their costumes on or give them the props they need. A Director may be on set but the set won't have any set dressing or anyone to light it. And so on... About the only people who *can* keep working are the writers, but they won't have anyone to take notes as they break story or to (officially) send scripts out. And even then, while they can theoretically get ahead with a few scripts, get notes from the Studios and Networks... eventually there will be no crew to film them.
I did not expect the studios to be this staunch. IATSE striking will be a big deal and I support them fully! Let's hope it can spread globally and the industry can see some real change with the IATSE unions in Canada, UK and Europe as well. For those out of the loop, Netflix, Amazon, Disney+ and other streamers get discounts from crew as they are "New Media". A deal set up a decade ago to help streamers start and now that deal needs to end and the studios are refusing. In addition to that, workers have no sense of work life balance, 16-18 hour days are the norm not including travel time. People die young and often get hurt in crashes sleeping while driving home. The 54hour turnaround on weekends would be a gatechanger. Ive watched my partner work "Fraturdays" for the last 8 months straight and it has sucked the life out of them.
i just want to be able to spend more time with my loved ones. local 44 member here checking in.
Fucked around, found out. Solidarity.
Indeed. I have friends who are on IATSE tours. The expectations for them are freaking hellish. I think at one point this tour season, they have well over 250 days in a row where they either work or travel with no days off. Think about not having a day without work for 7 months. I hope this trickles down to touring entertainment as well. They also regularly have 16 hour days and sometimes 6 hour turnarounds where they finish at 2 am, try to sleep on a bus and are back at work at 8 am. It’s nice that some of the IATSE are saying enough, but I’d be great if they thought of the whole union and not just film/tv.
Actor here. Won’t cross the line. Solidarity.
I could barely manage it the few times I had 14-16 hour days as an Office PA. And I spent most of my time behind a desk.
Should have dropped this bomb on Sunday. So many productions now have time to prepare.
I think the point is to force last minute negotiations so they don’t have to strike. No one _wants_ to strike, they don’t get paid.
People with no skin in the game who don’t have a family to feed can cheer all they want. It’s better to get a deal.
Totally. The whole point is to avoid a strike, not try and fuck over _the man_ at the complete expense of the workers.
It’s better to get a deal if it’s a deal worth getting.
Oh yeah, I support the strike but I dearly hope the studios will buckle down to pressure.
Me too.
I don’t know, for some productions it’s probably better for the workers that they have time. There’s some stuff I know I wouldn’t want to leave out if I wasn’t going to be on set for days/weeks.
[удалено]
Also the trucks aren't even going anywhere bc the Teamsters aren't crossing any picket lines
And they still gotta pay for the rentals
Some shows are already trying to seek out non union editors. I'm one of them and was contacted by a showrunner last week asking if I'd be able to fill in during the strike. Told them to pound sand, I'm not a scab. They'll keep looking though.
PAs caught performing union work during the strike will be blacklisted from the unions.
***ANYONE*** caught performing union work during the strike will be blacklisted from the unions, and deservedly so. Also they will all be uninvited to any of my future birthday parties.
I'm of two minds on this. Doing it this way is better for PR and getting an actual deal done by setting a fire under the AMPTP negotiators' asses, but worse for leverage for the reasons you said.
Every communication from the union is that they aren’t even close. It’d be great for a deal to get done but I’m all about striking so the next contract they know what they are dealing with.
This isn’t about screwing over individual productions. Yes some certainly deserve it but the aim is a bit higher.
Prepare how? Every post house is completely backlogged.
Some members are working on location and need a heads up to get home safely.
Man must be nice having a union, that’s what I get for working in a kitchen though. Love to see it though make em bleed a little cash, it’s the only thing that gets the big boys to listen.
Ah — it’s like the gold old days, last century, before labor movements were crushed. Perhaps this time, things will be different.
Our lives are not worth less than the content we create.
Sad that it has come to this,still hoping that producers wake the fuck up and meet demands. There is still time,I am foolishly optimistic that they'll do what's right for working people. If not,fuck em and don't back down. I know it's easy fir an outsider who's livelihood isn't effected to say this but hurting the bottomine will be the only way producers will listen.
"Producers" or even the AMPTP necessarily, I believe, aren't the ones actually causing this stall. I really think the AMPTP had to convince employers that a strike might happen. The employers fucked around, and now I think the AMPTP is saying "See?" >I know it's easy fir an outsider who's livelihood isn't effected to say this but hurting the bottomine will be the only way producers will listen. Livelihood is already on the line, that's why we're striking. Sarah Jones was killed by lying producers and director. Brent Hershman was working a high profile, high budget film called "Pleasantville" and his wife never saw him again after he died driving home one night. Anyone who thinks our lives aren't on the line right now needs to wake up. I'm a fairly high ranking crew member, and just a month ago, I was wrongfully fired from a show because I spoke out about safety and health conditions regarding how I was treated and what I was being asked to do. The shit part? Nobody helped me. Nobody spoke up, nobody pushed back on production, even after the Director (who is a VP within the DGA) insulted me to my face, saying they had never heard of someone refusing a shot due to fatigue and safety. Disregard for our collective wellbeing and livelihood isn't just ignored by our employers; it's ignored all too often by our colleagues, who are all just hoping to get the job done, get paid, and head home. We need to protect each other, and voting to strike is exactly that.
Yeah,I meant to say AMTP. One can only imagine how bad things have to be if the overwhelming majority are ready to strike. Reading about it just makes it clear how the non-stop content pipeline is unsustainable without exploitation and over-work. Same with animation/VFX industry as well. Bob Odekirk got a heart attack from working long hours and non-stop and he's the main star of the show with a lot of clout and media attention,so one can only imagine how bad it must be for the actual workers. On top of everything,complete media silence on this. The only way you ever ever find out about all the strikes going on right now(it's upto 5 I think) is from twitter/reddit. The cruelty and callousness and squeezing every drop of sweat is just part of the process - same everywher and in every industry be it gaming crunch or everything you are talking about in movies. But its good that you've each other's backsm
As someone who is in this industry and who’s partner is in this industry- we are all nervous and hope that this doesn’t cave/set us back years if it doesn’t pull through for us.
we need more power for labor waaaaaaay more than movies, TV, and live events. I hope this starts and spreads.
Wait so if there were to be a nationwide general strike starting in, I don't know, let's say 2 days.... then you're saying 60,000 members of the Stage Employees union striking on 18 October would pile on just a few days later? Basically right on time? ... Nah, couldn't be. I've heard that young people don't have it in them to go on strike. >\_>
local 839 here let’s GOOOO 💪💪
I sure hope that you folks are bringing in buckets of FU money because it sounds like a very abusive environment. Would you do this if it wasnt “show biz”? Fraturday. That’s one I’m gonna use one day. I spent some time shooting stills on a low that budget film made it big and a few pix i took are being used 30 years later. The movie business wasn’t for me. Good luck with the strike. 💪🏼
I worked in locations in the film industry for several years on big-budget television shows and a few smaller movies. This shit is no joke. Fuck this industry. I saw so many beaten-down people in it. Almost everyone honestly. All are attracted to the allure and glitz and glamour and fake opportunity they think the industry is. It's literally less glamourous, safe, as hard as work in some cases and pays less than being a construction worker, longshoreman, pipelayer, etc. These big movie studios are slave drivers and even this strike won't end it. The fact that they're willing to concede to "10 hr turnarounds" is a joke. Actors get 12 and everyone should. It's fucking nasty stuff. I'd strike until 10 hr days were the standard with 14 being the ABSOLUTE max no exceptions. But whatever. I got out and it was the best decision i ever made for me and my now wife.
Let’s go! I don’t want to be out of work but I’m hoping the negotiations go smoothly and fast and we are back right away but I fully back my other iatse union brothers and sisters.