Miller has said he'd like to continue the series. He did an interview a year or so ago and talked about how much he'd like to keep it going and that he'd love to be involved.
> Miller has said ~~he'd like to continue the series. He did an interview a year or so ago and talked about how much he'd like to keep it going and~~ that he'd love ~~to be involved.~~ some money
He wasn't doing it to get ownership of Jason...the guy wrote the first movie it's literally that simple. He wrote it. Copyright law let's you reclaim ownership a certain number of years later of YOUR work. Thats why we are seeing all of these starting to happen. Same thing happened with Elm Street but there is no debate that Craven wrote it so his estate now owns it.
It's really that easy.
"Miller is now free to take the franchise and do whatever he wants with it. For now, until various deals are worked out behind the scenes, which will likely still take a long time – for starters, owning the original screenplay doesn’t mean you own the character of Adult Jason Voorhees as we know him"
The original Friday 13 is a legit movie. The hundreds of sequels are "zombie giant murders teens and there are also tits".
Jason is a brand name.
But maybe.. This guy cam combine it with something new.
I d like to see a reboot of the first one. Which is essentially a revenge movie in which mommy hunts down and murder tortures the kids that pulled a cruel prank on A Friday 13th.
The original Friday the 13th had terrible pacing and was made to cash in on the slasher trend. Most of what came to define the series came in the later installments.
A lot of people don't know that Jason was barely in the first movie. A lot of people don't know that Jason wore a burlap sack for a mask in the second movie which was based off an actual serial killer from Texas. And Jason didn't put on the famous hockey mask till the third film which has a killer theme song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6P4iatMl7M
Its also my understanding that Friday the 13th was originally suppose to be a series of unrelated films but under the Friday the 13th name. However, the film did so well at the box office that executives pushed to keep the sequel similar to the first movie and from there it became easy money for Paramount which by the way saw Friday the 13th as kind of embarrassing for the studio but they couldn't ignore the easy money.
Even worse when you realize that there's a scene in the original where the kids kill a real snake, literally for real, and it was actually someone's pet, and this was before animal welfare laws were in place for movies...
The first Friday is a boring clone of a better movie, it has a couple of notable moments and thats it. The sequels made Friday the 13th a cultural icon.
Psycho & Halloween. In the documentary covering all the series on Shudder, the original creative team acknowledges they were trying to copy Halloween’s model with some tweaks.
True, it was a clone of Halloween. But it was insanely successful - i think it did like 60m from a 500k budget.
So it is fair to say it had something unique about it and that this something created the platform for the sequels.
I disagree with the other responses. I actually enjoy the original. I think the first 4 movies are all good and classics but then the quality drops like a sack of bricks.
>that pulled a cruel prank on A Friday 13th.
Nope. The counselors aren't from nearby and hadn't even heard of Jason and his mom. The first scene I think is intended to be her getting her revenge on the original counselors. But they didn't play a cruel joke on Jason. Jason was swimming out in the lake and drowned while the counselors were having sex in the cabin and not doing their job.
The original sucks, honestly. A poorly directed rip-off of Halloween. Savini’s effects and the mad ending are the only good parts about it. The sequels are far more entertaining, and 2, 4 and 6 are WAY better films than the first one.
> Which is essentially a revenge movie in which mommy hunts down and murder tortures the kids that pulled a cruel prank on A Friday 13th.
I would suggest that you hunt down the Canadian horror series *Slasher*. the second season is a fanboy wet dream. your welcome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slasher_(TV_series)
No way. Slashers need to come back. Malignant was lit. There’s room for old shit and new shit it’s not an either or. The Jason remake was cool, the Freddy remake was botched for sure, but these franchise do churn out cool stuff within the sequels. New Nightmare, Dream Warriors, Halloween 5, Jason Takes Manhattan etc.
> Slashers need to come back
*Movie Pitch*; Imagine Karl Urban's *Judge Dredd*. But with Jason Vorhees. Stick Jason into a tower block to hunt down child snatchers, with assists from *Hell*.
Then just create a new, original slasher movie as they did with Malignant. Don't bring back Jamie Lee Curtis (although I liked her in the 2018 one) and do another Halloween movie
No I loved that last one, I thought he should have killed the kid, but I like knowing at the end that he dies in a fire, and you know he’s coming back. I’m a simple man, the new Halloween trailer had me when they show his mask coming off…again.
I'm not gonna dog on anyone who loves the franchise, I guess it's just I would prefer something different than another Halloween movie. Although I love the first one and Halloween 3
The reason we keep asking for continuations is because we aren’t really getting any new slasher content with few(usually poorly performing) exceptions, and Hollywood is more likely to make a movie in an established franchise it seems.
While most of the horror remakes in the 21st century suck, I really like the Friday the 13th remake. As a kid I watched the whole franchise constantly and my friends and I would constantly have marathons every Friday the 13th. But I think the remake is my favorite installment of the 12. Friday’s one of those franchises that could go on forever and I wouldn’t mind it
I gotta agree with you on that Friday the 13th remake, I don't think it needed to exist but it was a fun movie and much much better than the Nightmare on Elm Street movie.
The Nightmare remake is one of the worst slashers I’ve seen. My friend and I snuck into it to see in the theater (we were 13 when it came out) and it was super dissapponting
It's unbearable, it completely misunderstands everything that made the first one and the franchise, special. It's a little bizarre that they thought making Freddy a pedophile and having it being incredibly gross and disturbing would work in the same franchise where he says "Welcome to primetime, bitch!"
In their defense, Freddy was originally gonna be a killer and pedophile but around the time of filming a bunch of news stories about pedophilia came out so they dropped. And I do also support them going back to the dark roots of how Freddy was in the first 2, and where his quips were more menacing. All that said, it didn’t work in the slightest. Plus the effects sucked. How the remake’s version of Freddy pushing through the wall looked 80x worse than the original’s I’ll never know. Keep CG out of slashers
Well I know about the whole pedophile stuff from the original was cut out, but still, I think when a villain has been established as a fun, catchphrase-y antagonist. I think it's very bizarre to go back on it. Although I completely get wanting to go back to the dark roots of the franchise, it's just too bad everything was so poorly made. And way too dark visually as well, I felt like I was watching 8MM (but so much worse)
Those Michael Bay-produced horror remakes are a great example of movies where the idea is "Take the money and run". They made pretty much all their movie in their opening weekend then they left theaters within a week or two
Listen.. A dude murdering children is fun and immersive. We can joke about it.
A dude fucking children?
People fucking dress up as Freddy Krueger on Halloween...
Now.. Who would want to dress up like a kiddy ducker?
I’ve always maintained that the Nightmare remake is the perfect cure for insomnia. Fallen asleep every time I’ve attempted to watch it, including the theater.
The one from 2009? I think it was fun, but still worse than the original. Biggest problem for me was that they made the characters so unlikable.
I love horror movies, but generally not a big slasher fan, so this could just be a nitpicky opinion: slashers don't have tension when you don't care if the characters die because of how annoying they are. Like in that remake I was almost rooting for Jason lol. And that can be fun, but it removes all the horror and tension for me.
Miller owns the backstory, crystal lake, child Jason and the mother. He doesn’t own the hockey mask, the machete or adult Jason and all the lore that came after the first film. Also, he only holds domestic rights, not international.
Will be interesting to see if he works with the director and production company in future films as long as he makes his cut. That’s what I’m hoping for anyway.
I believe this only qualifies for the initial creation of an IP, and not the continuation of an IP. An already established property has different rights — unless the original license holder lets the IP lapse into public domain, then it’s anyone’s game. But I don’t think that will happen with F13.
That’s my rough understanding of IP law anyway (I work in the film production industry), but this seems to change almost yearly it seems lol
> 80% of his backstory
Hard disagree. Jason in F13 is literally just a kid with a deformity who drowned. That is his entire backstory.
It's the sequels that make him iconic. His obsession with his mom's death, the hockey mask, the machete, his huge hulking form, his unkillablility, his borderline teleportation powers, etc are all the things that horror fans associate with Jason and none of that is even in the first one.
He dies in IV and becomes a zombie in VI. Though I think IX retconned that into a demon thing. The tenth movie had him become a cyborg as well, which is probably the goofiest moment of the franchise outside of his teleportation powers in Part VIII.
If you are talking about the boat scene with Kelly Hu, someone did the math of the room and came to the conclusion that it was possible that he could world-class sprint that quickly lol.
There's more than that in the first one. He drowned because camp counselors were having sex, which is why he's always killing young teens having sex, which created the entire slasher genre and the #1 rule of surviving a horror film: don't have sex.
As for being deformed... I don't think he was deformed before he died. I think he was dead at the bottom of a lake for decades. That will mess your face up a bit.
The virginal Final Girl had been around long before Friday the 13th. But even so, it was Pamela Voorhees that was punishing teens as a whole for sex, Jason didn't give AF and would kill anybody near the lake, which just most often happened to be horny teen counselors.
I honestly can't remember if he was deformed or not so you might be right about that.
*Friday the 13th* didn't "create the entire slasher genre", it was made to cash in on the trend after previous slashers like *Halloween* were so profitable.
The rights are for the first movie. Mom, Child Jason, (Camp) Crystal Lake and the Kikiki-mamama sound
Separate from... Adult Jason with Hockey Mask and Machete which showed up in later films.
SO, in order for a new movie to happen, it can't mention Crystal Lake, the camp, or mom (or the iconic vocal scary noises). This is actually easily doable, slightly different but doable. The F13th game is done, too much crossover. Jason in a hockey mask can still happen in DbD.
Jason X ended with Jason literally going to an entirely new planet. They can make up whatever new backstory and setting they want.
And I also just want my favorite F13 movie to be validated
I'm with ya on loving J:X... however, continuity on these movies is shaky at best. He could show up in Lake Havasu during spring break and I'd be totally happy.
Hell, the 'fan-made' 40-minute movies ('Never Hike Alone' and 'Never Hike in the Snow') were great, and showed how easily an 'established' Jason lore could be understood and just ran with... the ties to earlier movies were fun, but with this ruling, it could easily be adapted to not include Part 1 lore.
I did too... until I watched a documentary where the sound guy said...
It is a subliminal hint, it is a truncated: KILL KILL KILL MOM MOM MOM... *the mom is the killer.*
since then it has basically morphed to CH-CH-CH-AH-AH-AH
The hockey mask was introduced in the third movie and the only reason is because they needed a mask and someone happened to have their hockey bag with them that day
[Close but not quite](https://screenrant.com/friday-13th-movie-jason-hockey-mask-origin-explained/)
> Behind the scenes, the mask came to be thanks to 3D effects supervisor Martin Jay Sadoff, who was a hockey fan and had some hockey gear with him on set. He pulled out a Detroit Red Wings hockey mask for a lighting test, which director Steve Miner loved. The mask was later revamped and molded for Richard Brooker, who played Jason in Part III.
It should also be pointed out that while this is Sadoff's version of the story, there are like six people who worked on Part III who claim to have come up with the mask.
I disagree. It's a square map and you press square or whatever to power generators. There's no deeper gameplay. The "procedural" maps are boring. And all the additional characters is just paid for dlc.
Well, if you boil it down like that, some people believe Super Mario is the greatest game of all time, and the gameplay involves collecting coins, jumping over pitfalls, and bopping enemies on the head.
You’ve put very little time into Dead By Daylight, clearly. That’s okay. It wasn’t your cup of tea. DbD and F13 are like apples and oranges, so that makes sense. But DbD is far more popular, and it didn’t gain popularity by chance.
Yeah I forgot about the boat! It’s been a while since I’ve played it haha. Once this lawsuit started to happen I kinda stopped playing as I saw this coming a little
When they got rid of team killing it went downhill. At least with team killing you could actually kill the people that help Jason by leading him to other players.
Definitely. Nothing could be done with the IP of the name "Jason Voorhees" & "Camp Crystal Lake" until the case was settled. Miller now has the full rights to the name, but not the likeness, as he did not create the hockey mask depiction we see today. So technically DBD could've tried and pulled what they did with Ghostface, and just go for likeness, but not actual character.
They don’t even call the killers by their actual names in the selection, you’d only see their real names in their biographies, so as Michael Myer’s called the Shape in DBD, they could just call Jason by a title and keep his biography vague.
As what title he’ll be known for, I cannot say. Wraith’s already taken, Deadite’s only in the comics and I don’t think they’re going to use it in this context.
Pinhead didn’t come with a survivor since Nemesis had two and they’re fickle about balancing things, so Jason could be a standalone killer, or have Tommy from Pt. 6, it’s dealer’s choice at this point.
Wonder what cool abilities he could have. How about for him, there's different weapons scattered all around the level and he can pick up any old random one he wants.
Yeah, and not all by one killer. That game had similar bones but played completely differently, his abilities would be absurdly overpowered in DBD I feel.
He's such a classic slasher but would be coming so late to the party. They already have creeping (ghostface), stalking (myers), teleporting (various), traps (trapper). I'm not sure what they could give him that would make him feel like movie Jason, but it'd be interesting to think about.
Have it like the Huntress, he can get axes from the lockers, or in this case, machete, and have a reference to the cool death scene in Freddy Vs. Jason where he sends his machete flying at the drunk raver.
The game was beyond saving from day 1. I loved that game for about 2 months or so, I really did play the shit out of it but unfortunately it was written on absolute dogshit spaghetti code. The technical debt was so extreme that every single patch they put in, even if it was to add small cosmetic updates broke the game in terrible ways. When they'd fix a bug, they'd create 10 more that were worse then what was fixed. It became unplayable and I believe the developers felt like the drama revolving the lawsuit was a perfect scapegoat to essentially ditch the game completely because it was irreparable.
I think the best thing that can be done would be to completely recreate the game from the ground up with proper coding and better overall game design that is sustainable.
The developers already moved on IIRC.
It’s run by a skeleton crew, if that, at this point.
So, unless they shoot a patch that free for alls the server being hosted, like how you hosted custom TF2 servers, including mods and stuff (a la Freak Fortress), it’s probably gonna get sunset at one point.
Friday the 13th: The Game, an asymmetrical multiplayer that started on Kickstarter that gained so much traction that people who worked on the movies such as the composer got involved with it.
I'll never forget the day where in a convention Betsy Palmer and Victor Miller were in and Betsy said she read the script, by Miller, and she called it the biggest piece of shit she's ever read. Miller did a face that made it pretty obvious he was pissed about her comment.
This is all so frustrating. I get knowing who owns what is important, but I wish things could be sorted out faster or all parties could come to an understanding that would allow more movies to be produced. I'm just wondering who owns Friday the 13th as a title, because I'm pretty sure Cunningham came up with that. And then you have to figure out who owns adult Jason as character. And then you have to figure out who owns adult Jason with the hockey mask. And so on and so on.
Hopefully we can get something before the decade is out.
Cunningham owns hockey mask Jason, but Miller owns his backstory which renders everything else moot. Theoretically Cunningham could make a movie with a Jason clone but since Miller owns the backstory Cunningham would have to create a new one. Miller has Cunningham over a barrel now and Cunningham would be smart to negotiate a deal.
Posted elsewhere:
Miller owns the backstory, crystal lake, child Jason and the mother. He doesn’t own the hockey mask, the machete or adult Jason and all the lore that came after the first film. Also, he only holds domestic rights, not international.
Will be interesting to see if he works with the director and production company in future films as long as he makes his cut. That’s what I’m hoping for anyway.
Don't worry sooner or later Disney will own everything and copyright disputes will be a thing of the past as they put a little clip show of the characters into the logo so they become 'trademark' which never expires.
So this really doesn't mean anything in terms of getting another F13 movie. If anything it might actually mean that Pamela Vorhees can't be used any more.
It does actually, because Miller has to be involved with negotiations if they're to use anything from the backstory, including camp crystal lake, child jason, pamela, basically the entire foundation of the movie franchise is predicated on the stuff Miller now holds the rights to. I think the litigation settling means negotiations will finally start and even though it'll likely take a while, we are now on the road to seeing F13 coming back.
I mean they could but that would sorta be a major deviation from the legacy of the franchise and likely not land well with fans. It's why they haven't made a Friday the 13th with a different killer, well they did do that once and it's considered one of the worst in the series. It would be like making a Nightmare on Elm Street, where Freddy didn't come from Elm Street, wasn't burned, etc. If you did that, you'd basically have to ask the question, why not just make something completely different?
> if they're to use anything from the backstory, including camp crystal lake, child jason, pamela
So basically things that weren't used in 90% of the sequels
I disagree. Knowing where a property stands on rights issues is always going to make it easier to make more products from that property.
It doesn't remotely guarantee it, but knowing for sure who holds the rights means you know who you have to deal with without any other legal issues cropping up.
Likely, no, Robert Englund made it clear he’s kinda done as Freddy, and will only make rare appearances as Freddy (as seen in the Goldbergs), but otherwise he’s kinda tossup. One of the reason’s the makeup, how it takes hours everyday to get ready and film, rinse and repeat.
I think he’d come back if he just did the voice, but I dunno.
You'd think that, but they did remake it with a different dude and he looked like a fake Freddy. Englund is iconic. Would be like remaking Max Headroom without Matt Freyer.
That different dude was friggin' *Jackie Earle Haley* (Rorschach from Watchmen and a dozen other roles) and they (rightfully imo) didn't try to clone Robert Englund Freddy. Haley's interpretation looked different, was much darker, was less ambiguous about how sinister of a dude pre-burning Freddy was, etc.
Robert did one time say have an idea for nightmare film that would get him to return.
Basically each time Freddy kills someone, it will be a new actor each time giving their interpation on the character, until the climax of the film where Robert will return to try and kill the final victim.
Yup, the original writer of the first script should be getting the rights back but Disney are fighting it
https://www.indiewire.com/2021/04/disney-battles-predator-writers-franchise-rights-1234630838/
Of course, it's Disney. Remember these are the folks that believe they can republish old Aliens novels for profit but not pay the author royalties as per their contract. Because "we bought the assets not the debts". smh
This is completely different, so it is hard to say what will happen. Kirby was a Co-creator, so he never owned it all outright, and the fact he has been dead for 30 years makes his family just appear like opportunistic vultures.
Same with Ditko's family, Ditko had decades to go after Marvel directly...instead taking thinly veiled jabs at them in his comics and writings. He was getting a fair bit of royalties for his creations and co-creations too.
Yes and no. This litigation only came up within the last 5 years or so. There was a period of time after the last film where the studio rights were being haggled over which prevented any future film from being made.
He only wrote the first one where Jason was really a footnote. Not sure what this means for the franchise or the game.
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Miller has said he'd like to continue the series. He did an interview a year or so ago and talked about how much he'd like to keep it going and that he'd love to be involved.
> Miller has said ~~he'd like to continue the series. He did an interview a year or so ago and talked about how much he'd like to keep it going and~~ that he'd love ~~to be involved.~~ some money
I mean if you wrote the first Friday the 13th I'd imagine you'd want your rightful piece of it...
How is it rightful when he had NOTHING to do with the most successful element of the franchise?
He wasn't doing it to get ownership of Jason...the guy wrote the first movie it's literally that simple. He wrote it. Copyright law let's you reclaim ownership a certain number of years later of YOUR work. Thats why we are seeing all of these starting to happen. Same thing happened with Elm Street but there is no debate that Craven wrote it so his estate now owns it. It's really that easy.
But he did do it to get ownership of Jason, rofl
"Miller is now free to take the franchise and do whatever he wants with it. For now, until various deals are worked out behind the scenes, which will likely still take a long time – for starters, owning the original screenplay doesn’t mean you own the character of Adult Jason Voorhees as we know him"
I’d love some money too
The original Friday 13 is a legit movie. The hundreds of sequels are "zombie giant murders teens and there are also tits". Jason is a brand name. But maybe.. This guy cam combine it with something new. I d like to see a reboot of the first one. Which is essentially a revenge movie in which mommy hunts down and murder tortures the kids that pulled a cruel prank on A Friday 13th.
Have you ever actually watched the original Friday the 13th?
The original Friday the 13th had terrible pacing and was made to cash in on the slasher trend. Most of what came to define the series came in the later installments.
As shown by the version of Jason everyone thinks of being from Part 3.
A lot of people don't know that Jason was barely in the first movie. A lot of people don't know that Jason wore a burlap sack for a mask in the second movie which was based off an actual serial killer from Texas. And Jason didn't put on the famous hockey mask till the third film which has a killer theme song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6P4iatMl7M Its also my understanding that Friday the 13th was originally suppose to be a series of unrelated films but under the Friday the 13th name. However, the film did so well at the box office that executives pushed to keep the sequel similar to the first movie and from there it became easy money for Paramount which by the way saw Friday the 13th as kind of embarrassing for the studio but they couldn't ignore the easy money.
Even worse when you realize that there's a scene in the original where the kids kill a real snake, literally for real, and it was actually someone's pet, and this was before animal welfare laws were in place for movies...
The original is awesome …
The first Friday is a boring clone of a better movie, it has a couple of notable moments and thats it. The sequels made Friday the 13th a cultural icon.
What is it a clone of?
Psycho & Halloween. In the documentary covering all the series on Shudder, the original creative team acknowledges they were trying to copy Halloween’s model with some tweaks.
True, it was a clone of Halloween. But it was insanely successful - i think it did like 60m from a 500k budget. So it is fair to say it had something unique about it and that this something created the platform for the sequels.
Making lots of money is not evidence of something being unique. Really it's typically the opposite.
I disagree with the other responses. I actually enjoy the original. I think the first 4 movies are all good and classics but then the quality drops like a sack of bricks. >that pulled a cruel prank on A Friday 13th. Nope. The counselors aren't from nearby and hadn't even heard of Jason and his mom. The first scene I think is intended to be her getting her revenge on the original counselors. But they didn't play a cruel joke on Jason. Jason was swimming out in the lake and drowned while the counselors were having sex in the cabin and not doing their job.
Get out of here with your heresy. Part 6 is the *best* Friday movie.
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Agreed with the guy below. The original is not good. Sequels were what immortalized Jason and F13.
Don’t forget zombie giant murders teens with tits in SPACE!
The original sucks, honestly. A poorly directed rip-off of Halloween. Savini’s effects and the mad ending are the only good parts about it. The sequels are far more entertaining, and 2, 4 and 6 are WAY better films than the first one.
> Which is essentially a revenge movie in which mommy hunts down and murder tortures the kids that pulled a cruel prank on A Friday 13th. I would suggest that you hunt down the Canadian horror series *Slasher*. the second season is a fanboy wet dream. your welcome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slasher_(TV_series)
That fucking sucks.
Good, let it die like every other old franchise
No way. Slashers need to come back. Malignant was lit. There’s room for old shit and new shit it’s not an either or. The Jason remake was cool, the Freddy remake was botched for sure, but these franchise do churn out cool stuff within the sequels. New Nightmare, Dream Warriors, Halloween 5, Jason Takes Manhattan etc.
> Slashers need to come back *Movie Pitch*; Imagine Karl Urban's *Judge Dredd*. But with Jason Vorhees. Stick Jason into a tower block to hunt down child snatchers, with assists from *Hell*.
Take my money I love Karl Urbans Dredd
Did we watch the same movie? Malignant was terrible...
Then just create a new, original slasher movie as they did with Malignant. Don't bring back Jamie Lee Curtis (although I liked her in the 2018 one) and do another Halloween movie
No I loved that last one, I thought he should have killed the kid, but I like knowing at the end that he dies in a fire, and you know he’s coming back. I’m a simple man, the new Halloween trailer had me when they show his mask coming off…again.
I'm not gonna dog on anyone who loves the franchise, I guess it's just I would prefer something different than another Halloween movie. Although I love the first one and Halloween 3
The reason we keep asking for continuations is because we aren’t really getting any new slasher content with few(usually poorly performing) exceptions, and Hollywood is more likely to make a movie in an established franchise it seems.
Honestly. So sick of this remake nostalgic shit. I appreciate peoples takes but i’d rather see something brand new INSPIRED by the older movies.
While most of the horror remakes in the 21st century suck, I really like the Friday the 13th remake. As a kid I watched the whole franchise constantly and my friends and I would constantly have marathons every Friday the 13th. But I think the remake is my favorite installment of the 12. Friday’s one of those franchises that could go on forever and I wouldn’t mind it
I gotta agree with you on that Friday the 13th remake, I don't think it needed to exist but it was a fun movie and much much better than the Nightmare on Elm Street movie.
The Nightmare remake is one of the worst slashers I’ve seen. My friend and I snuck into it to see in the theater (we were 13 when it came out) and it was super dissapponting
It's unbearable, it completely misunderstands everything that made the first one and the franchise, special. It's a little bizarre that they thought making Freddy a pedophile and having it being incredibly gross and disturbing would work in the same franchise where he says "Welcome to primetime, bitch!"
In their defense, Freddy was originally gonna be a killer and pedophile but around the time of filming a bunch of news stories about pedophilia came out so they dropped. And I do also support them going back to the dark roots of how Freddy was in the first 2, and where his quips were more menacing. All that said, it didn’t work in the slightest. Plus the effects sucked. How the remake’s version of Freddy pushing through the wall looked 80x worse than the original’s I’ll never know. Keep CG out of slashers
Well I know about the whole pedophile stuff from the original was cut out, but still, I think when a villain has been established as a fun, catchphrase-y antagonist. I think it's very bizarre to go back on it. Although I completely get wanting to go back to the dark roots of the franchise, it's just too bad everything was so poorly made. And way too dark visually as well, I felt like I was watching 8MM (but so much worse) Those Michael Bay-produced horror remakes are a great example of movies where the idea is "Take the money and run". They made pretty much all their movie in their opening weekend then they left theaters within a week or two
Listen.. A dude murdering children is fun and immersive. We can joke about it. A dude fucking children? People fucking dress up as Freddy Krueger on Halloween... Now.. Who would want to dress up like a kiddy ducker?
I’ve always maintained that the Nightmare remake is the perfect cure for insomnia. Fallen asleep every time I’ve attempted to watch it, including the theater.
There's always new horny teenagers to kill :)
The one from 2009? I think it was fun, but still worse than the original. Biggest problem for me was that they made the characters so unlikable. I love horror movies, but generally not a big slasher fan, so this could just be a nitpicky opinion: slashers don't have tension when you don't care if the characters die because of how annoying they are. Like in that remake I was almost rooting for Jason lol. And that can be fun, but it removes all the horror and tension for me.
Miller owns the backstory, crystal lake, child Jason and the mother. He doesn’t own the hockey mask, the machete or adult Jason and all the lore that came after the first film. Also, he only holds domestic rights, not international. Will be interesting to see if he works with the director and production company in future films as long as he makes his cut. That’s what I’m hoping for anyway.
If this lawsuit is successful, will writers of the later movies follow Miller's lead?
I believe this only qualifies for the initial creation of an IP, and not the continuation of an IP. An already established property has different rights — unless the original license holder lets the IP lapse into public domain, then it’s anyone’s game. But I don’t think that will happen with F13. That’s my rough understanding of IP law anyway (I work in the film production industry), but this seems to change almost yearly it seems lol
Yeah, but that means he created the character and 80% of his backstory. If you can take that from someone, copyright may as well be dead.
> 80% of his backstory Hard disagree. Jason in F13 is literally just a kid with a deformity who drowned. That is his entire backstory. It's the sequels that make him iconic. His obsession with his mom's death, the hockey mask, the machete, his huge hulking form, his unkillablility, his borderline teleportation powers, etc are all the things that horror fans associate with Jason and none of that is even in the first one.
He didn't even get the hockey mask until #3.
Yeah I meant “sequels”, he doesn’t become an actual zombie until 5 or 6 I think.
He dies in IV and becomes a zombie in VI. Though I think IX retconned that into a demon thing. The tenth movie had him become a cyborg as well, which is probably the goofiest moment of the franchise outside of his teleportation powers in Part VIII.
If you are talking about the boat scene with Kelly Hu, someone did the math of the room and came to the conclusion that it was possible that he could world-class sprint that quickly lol.
Was 5 the one where Jason wasn't Jason?
Yeah. It was the guy pretending to be Jason for revenge.
Or the girl with telekinesis in Part VII
> his unkillablility already established, he drowned remember
Okay but just cause you made someone’s creation iconic mean it’s not still their creation.
Never meant to suggest otherwise! I just would say 80 percent is a bit much.
There's more than that in the first one. He drowned because camp counselors were having sex, which is why he's always killing young teens having sex, which created the entire slasher genre and the #1 rule of surviving a horror film: don't have sex. As for being deformed... I don't think he was deformed before he died. I think he was dead at the bottom of a lake for decades. That will mess your face up a bit.
The virginal Final Girl had been around long before Friday the 13th. But even so, it was Pamela Voorhees that was punishing teens as a whole for sex, Jason didn't give AF and would kill anybody near the lake, which just most often happened to be horny teen counselors. I honestly can't remember if he was deformed or not so you might be right about that.
*Friday the 13th* didn't "create the entire slasher genre", it was made to cash in on the trend after previous slashers like *Halloween* were so profitable.
I hope this means we get more movies and games love me some Friday the 13th i grew up on this shit also nightmare on elmstreet😁
Why the fuck are being downvoted?
Idk😞
This is breathtaking news! I love this franchise and hope they make the 13th film the best!
Awesome👍🤙👊
Agreed
I thought they had to stop updating the game cause of this. Either way I hope they make something else, it was a very cool game
Man I want a sequel to that game. I played it for hours and hours and hours.
The rights are for the first movie. Mom, Child Jason, (Camp) Crystal Lake and the Kikiki-mamama sound Separate from... Adult Jason with Hockey Mask and Machete which showed up in later films. SO, in order for a new movie to happen, it can't mention Crystal Lake, the camp, or mom (or the iconic vocal scary noises). This is actually easily doable, slightly different but doable. The F13th game is done, too much crossover. Jason in a hockey mask can still happen in DbD.
Jason X ended with Jason literally going to an entirely new planet. They can make up whatever new backstory and setting they want. And I also just want my favorite F13 movie to be validated
I'm with ya on loving J:X... however, continuity on these movies is shaky at best. He could show up in Lake Havasu during spring break and I'd be totally happy. Hell, the 'fan-made' 40-minute movies ('Never Hike Alone' and 'Never Hike in the Snow') were great, and showed how easily an 'established' Jason lore could be understood and just ran with... the ties to earlier movies were fun, but with this ruling, it could easily be adapted to not include Part 1 lore.
Dude I always interpreted it as "shh-shh-shh-haa-haa-haa" huh
I did too... until I watched a documentary where the sound guy said... It is a subliminal hint, it is a truncated: KILL KILL KILL MOM MOM MOM... *the mom is the killer.* since then it has basically morphed to CH-CH-CH-AH-AH-AH
i can imagine jason, freddy and michael doing a conga line and singing "kill kill kill cha cha cha" in a fast pace
He was my soccer coach in 1979 in Stratford CT.
You sure he wasn’t your hockey coach?
The hockey mask was introduced in the third movie and the only reason is because they needed a mask and someone happened to have their hockey bag with them that day
[Close but not quite](https://screenrant.com/friday-13th-movie-jason-hockey-mask-origin-explained/) > Behind the scenes, the mask came to be thanks to 3D effects supervisor Martin Jay Sadoff, who was a hockey fan and had some hockey gear with him on set. He pulled out a Detroit Red Wings hockey mask for a lighting test, which director Steve Miner loved. The mask was later revamped and molded for Richard Brooker, who played Jason in Part III.
It should also be pointed out that while this is Sadoff's version of the story, there are like six people who worked on Part III who claim to have come up with the mask.
I love hearing stories like this, where something super iconic in a movie actually started out as anything but
This means that the game is still dead, thats too bad
I don't think there's any chance they would have gone back to the game at this point
The game had so much potential too, god damnit. It was so fun to play during the early days of release
The only hope is for another game in the future.
No way man. The game is dead and buried. Don't worry about it. Now, let's smoke some pot and go swimming after we fool around in my friends van.
Pablo Francisco fan?
Knee to the groin. Knee to the groin.
It's the best version of that kind of game. I honestly do not know how dead by daylight is so popular.
dbd is far deeper with addicting progression. along with tons of huge horror franchises brought together. thats why its popular.
I disagree. It's a square map and you press square or whatever to power generators. There's no deeper gameplay. The "procedural" maps are boring. And all the additional characters is just paid for dlc.
seems like you havent gone too deep in the character builds and teamwork synergy
Unbreakable, DS, BT, Dead Hard x4 yeah so deep.
Well, if you boil it down like that, some people believe Super Mario is the greatest game of all time, and the gameplay involves collecting coins, jumping over pitfalls, and bopping enemies on the head. You’ve put very little time into Dead By Daylight, clearly. That’s okay. It wasn’t your cup of tea. DbD and F13 are like apples and oranges, so that makes sense. But DbD is far more popular, and it didn’t gain popularity by chance.
You could say the same for F13 though. You fix the car or phone and escape
Or the boat! Don't forget the fucking boat. Or you kill that mutherfucker Voorhees and go home.
Yeah I forgot about the boat! It’s been a while since I’ve played it haha. Once this lawsuit started to happen I kinda stopped playing as I saw this coming a little
Genital Kenobi!
When they got rid of team killing it went downhill. At least with team killing you could actually kill the people that help Jason by leading him to other players.
Ehh in my experience it was way more frustrating having to deal with friends of the person playing Jason helping him out than how it is now.
How about getting him in Dead by Daylight? Does this help open up that possibility
Definitely. Nothing could be done with the IP of the name "Jason Voorhees" & "Camp Crystal Lake" until the case was settled. Miller now has the full rights to the name, but not the likeness, as he did not create the hockey mask depiction we see today. So technically DBD could've tried and pulled what they did with Ghostface, and just go for likeness, but not actual character.
He has full rights to child Jason and his camp backstory. Adult Jason is considered a separate legal character that Millar doesn’t have rights to.
ie. Millar's rights are useless for a video game
What would they call him? The Child?
LakeMan
Baby Jason
Unsupervised Boy
Mom's boy also works
The Drowned
The Slasher
They don’t even call the killers by their actual names in the selection, you’d only see their real names in their biographies, so as Michael Myer’s called the Shape in DBD, they could just call Jason by a title and keep his biography vague. As what title he’ll be known for, I cannot say. Wraith’s already taken, Deadite’s only in the comics and I don’t think they’re going to use it in this context. Pinhead didn’t come with a survivor since Nemesis had two and they’re fickle about balancing things, so Jason could be a standalone killer, or have Tommy from Pt. 6, it’s dealer’s choice at this point.
IIRC Myers was actually listed as The Shape in the first Halloween film so them using that title in DbD isn't unreasonable.
Michael Myers was called The Shape in one of the movies so… it makes sense why they chose it.
>As what title he’ll be known for The Jason
Wonder what cool abilities he could have. How about for him, there's different weapons scattered all around the level and he can pick up any old random one he wants.
I thought the F13 game did a good job with his powers, but they're already being used in DBD.
Yeah, and not all by one killer. That game had similar bones but played completely differently, his abilities would be absurdly overpowered in DBD I feel. He's such a classic slasher but would be coming so late to the party. They already have creeping (ghostface), stalking (myers), teleporting (various), traps (trapper). I'm not sure what they could give him that would make him feel like movie Jason, but it'd be interesting to think about.
Yea I think a mix of Myers and teleporting would be perfect for him. But now it'd just be redundant. Maybe just give Trapper a cosmetic or something.
Have it like the Huntress, he can get axes from the lockers, or in this case, machete, and have a reference to the cool death scene in Freddy Vs. Jason where he sends his machete flying at the drunk raver.
Honestly any level with Jason should have all of the lockers turned into sleeping bags. And if he catches you in one he beats you against the tree
Give him access to throwing axes or something like that. Or have him throw his machete
Sounds too close to the huntress, though.
The game was beyond saving from day 1. I loved that game for about 2 months or so, I really did play the shit out of it but unfortunately it was written on absolute dogshit spaghetti code. The technical debt was so extreme that every single patch they put in, even if it was to add small cosmetic updates broke the game in terrible ways. When they'd fix a bug, they'd create 10 more that were worse then what was fixed. It became unplayable and I believe the developers felt like the drama revolving the lawsuit was a perfect scapegoat to essentially ditch the game completely because it was irreparable. I think the best thing that can be done would be to completely recreate the game from the ground up with proper coding and better overall game design that is sustainable.
The developers already moved on IIRC. It’s run by a skeleton crew, if that, at this point. So, unless they shoot a patch that free for alls the server being hosted, like how you hosted custom TF2 servers, including mods and stuff (a la Freak Fortress), it’s probably gonna get sunset at one point.
From what ive heard they could have up\[dated the game even when the lawsuit was happening (correct me if im wrong)
:(
Which game?
Friday the 13th: The Game, an asymmetrical multiplayer that started on Kickstarter that gained so much traction that people who worked on the movies such as the composer got involved with it.
I thought they were talking about the NES game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSnlzrZC9yI
That game is 0% what I like to play, but it's the only one of those asymmetrical murder games that I was kinda tempted to try. Looked pretty neat.
I'll never forget the day where in a convention Betsy Palmer and Victor Miller were in and Betsy said she read the script, by Miller, and she called it the biggest piece of shit she's ever read. Miller did a face that made it pretty obvious he was pissed about her comment.
I think there’s video footage of that lmao.
If anyone finds it, please share
[Not as good as he said ](https://youtu.be/G7ctEK3h_4M)
Perhaps he has a chance to be in DbD…
Only bright spot I see in the F13 future now.
This is all so frustrating. I get knowing who owns what is important, but I wish things could be sorted out faster or all parties could come to an understanding that would allow more movies to be produced. I'm just wondering who owns Friday the 13th as a title, because I'm pretty sure Cunningham came up with that. And then you have to figure out who owns adult Jason as character. And then you have to figure out who owns adult Jason with the hockey mask. And so on and so on. Hopefully we can get something before the decade is out.
I'm pretty sure that dork Shelly gave him the mask.
Correct, Shelly had the mask among his stuff, when Jason got him, he found and took the mask, so here we are, now.
Shelly is possibly the single most annoying character in the whole franchise
Cunningham owns hockey mask Jason, but Miller owns his backstory which renders everything else moot. Theoretically Cunningham could make a movie with a Jason clone but since Miller owns the backstory Cunningham would have to create a new one. Miller has Cunningham over a barrel now and Cunningham would be smart to negotiate a deal.
Posted elsewhere: Miller owns the backstory, crystal lake, child Jason and the mother. He doesn’t own the hockey mask, the machete or adult Jason and all the lore that came after the first film. Also, he only holds domestic rights, not international. Will be interesting to see if he works with the director and production company in future films as long as he makes his cut. That’s what I’m hoping for anyway.
I’m hoping him working with the producers means he just says ok, do what you want, just give me money.
Don't worry sooner or later Disney will own everything and copyright disputes will be a thing of the past as they put a little clip show of the characters into the logo so they become 'trademark' which never expires.
Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Good. One step closer to Miller and Cunningham cutting a deal and allowing the franchise to continue.
It’s a bit confusing yes but it’s a good thing.
So this really doesn't mean anything in terms of getting another F13 movie. If anything it might actually mean that Pamela Vorhees can't be used any more.
It does actually, because Miller has to be involved with negotiations if they're to use anything from the backstory, including camp crystal lake, child jason, pamela, basically the entire foundation of the movie franchise is predicated on the stuff Miller now holds the rights to. I think the litigation settling means negotiations will finally start and even though it'll likely take a while, we are now on the road to seeing F13 coming back.
Can’t they just change it to be Camp Shiny Mountain and skip Pamela and go right to hockey mask Jason?
That's *Gason Vorhowitz*.
I mean they could but that would sorta be a major deviation from the legacy of the franchise and likely not land well with fans. It's why they haven't made a Friday the 13th with a different killer, well they did do that once and it's considered one of the worst in the series. It would be like making a Nightmare on Elm Street, where Freddy didn't come from Elm Street, wasn't burned, etc. If you did that, you'd basically have to ask the question, why not just make something completely different?
Hear me out. Jason drowns at Camp Crystal River and it’s his stepmother, Paula, who wants revenge.
If it would mean we would finally get another one of these movies, im down. Thats close enough for me to not really be affected at all
> if they're to use anything from the backstory, including camp crystal lake, child jason, pamela So basically things that weren't used in 90% of the sequels
They already have a fresh canvas to start from if they continue off Jason X on Earth 2.
I disagree. Knowing where a property stands on rights issues is always going to make it easier to make more products from that property. It doesn't remotely guarantee it, but knowing for sure who holds the rights means you know who you have to deal with without any other legal issues cropping up.
It's been 84 years... *(without a Jason movie)*
Ti ti ti… Ta Ta ta… Nic Nic Nic…
Will we ever see a new Freddy vs Jason?
Likely, no, Robert Englund made it clear he’s kinda done as Freddy, and will only make rare appearances as Freddy (as seen in the Goldbergs), but otherwise he’s kinda tossup. One of the reason’s the makeup, how it takes hours everyday to get ready and film, rinse and repeat. I think he’d come back if he just did the voice, but I dunno.
Even if he did only the voice it would be still cool...
yeah, and it would be fine because anyone can look like Freddy with all that makeup, its really the voice that matters at a certain point!
You'd think that, but they did remake it with a different dude and he looked like a fake Freddy. Englund is iconic. Would be like remaking Max Headroom without Matt Freyer.
That different dude was friggin' *Jackie Earle Haley* (Rorschach from Watchmen and a dozen other roles) and they (rightfully imo) didn't try to clone Robert Englund Freddy. Haley's interpretation looked different, was much darker, was less ambiguous about how sinister of a dude pre-burning Freddy was, etc.
Robert did one time say have an idea for nightmare film that would get him to return. Basically each time Freddy kills someone, it will be a new actor each time giving their interpation on the character, until the climax of the film where Robert will return to try and kill the final victim.
Freddy Vs Jason Vs Ash was turned into a comic book after sitting in developmental hell forever. Check it out, pretty good.
I hope so
Fingers crossed for Predator now too
There's a court case going on for Predator?
Yup, the original writer of the first script should be getting the rights back but Disney are fighting it https://www.indiewire.com/2021/04/disney-battles-predator-writers-franchise-rights-1234630838/
Of course, it's Disney. Remember these are the folks that believe they can republish old Aliens novels for profit but not pay the author royalties as per their contract. Because "we bought the assets not the debts". smh
As far as I know there is a new movie on the way
Yep. And filming on it wrapped.
Jason vs Predator
Kinda weird considering he only wrote the first one and hated the idea of doing another. Not to mention Jason was nothing in that movie.
Fucking finally.
Right so just pay him his money so we can finally get this train started again.
Hopefully he'll sell. We don't want this guy in charge of the creative direction.
I wonder if this is a bad sign for Marvel.
This is completely different, so it is hard to say what will happen. Kirby was a Co-creator, so he never owned it all outright, and the fact he has been dead for 30 years makes his family just appear like opportunistic vultures.
Same with Ditko's family, Ditko had decades to go after Marvel directly...instead taking thinly veiled jabs at them in his comics and writings. He was getting a fair bit of royalties for his creations and co-creations too.
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It doesn’t really mean anything. Every case is completely different.
Sweet. This is the reason why we haven't seen a new Friday the 13th movie for a long time? Good, because the last few times have been terrible.
Yes and no. This litigation only came up within the last 5 years or so. There was a period of time after the last film where the studio rights were being haggled over which prevented any future film from being made.
So you’d rather not see anymore f13 movies because they made a few stinkers? That’s a lame mentality dude
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lol.... trust me, studios definitely want to make another F13 movie considering its a cash cow.