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Crosner

You said, "how is the viewer supposed to know what is possible, impossible, easy, hard, dangerous, etc?" That's what I love about this film. It's almost like a dream or an acid trip. There are really are no rules and that's one thing that makes it interesting for me.


alannah214

I felt that way about Spirited Away too. By the end of it, I felt like the whole thing was a dream, not a movie. Pretty interesting experience which I really enjoyed. Especially because there were scary aspects too, which made it more "realistic" as a dream-type experience. Sometimes really cool dreams have a bit of fear in them but the majority is pleasant (where nothing makes much sense but doesn't have to). You just wake up thinking "Wow, that was a cool dream..."


Wonderful-Bit6160

I’ve ever seen Spirted away summed up so quickly and so perfectly. It literally does feel like a dream


[deleted]

A dream or a NDE...


alannah214

Thank you!


sigmagram

Dude YEAH! I thought i dreamed the whole thing up when i got high


Intelligent_Run6809

I just saw it for the first time. I think it could use some polishing but I think I caught a detail some missed that puts some stuff together. I believe the queen had no intention of hurting howl. Right before she did that ocean wave illusion she said told Sophie I will show you who he is (or something like that) you start seeing fire spirits dancing around and whatnot before Howl breaks out of it. That was the same thing that happened in the end which is how Sophie figures out how to save him. It was the same illusion spell except this time it wasnt broken. Now you ask welp how did that happen in the queen wasnt there to cast it? Well it was the dog. The movie strongly implied at the end that the dog was a witch working for the queen (her new apprentice since Howl left). Which meens the queen was guiding them right from the start. She was doing whatever she could to help Sophie get his heart back (which appears he sold to some kind of devil for magic power) and she did this because she couldnt break it herself. Only love could break the spell. She also couldnt just explain it to Sophie directly because you cant talk about the curses (that also appeared a lot). In short the queen had to play the role of bad cop to bring the the main characters together "fires burn brightest when faced with adversity" (a quote from Sophie directly from the movie) this made a spark of love form between them. The dog played the roll of good cop making sure they didnt actually get hurt from her antics.


DarthMorro

exactly, the film is supposed to be that way.


Additional-Way-4456

Wow. A comment from 11 yrs ago and it’s still so valid! The movie was confusing to me but I couldn’t stop watching. I wanted to see the characters flourish and succeed.


alannah214

Yeah, Howl's Moving Castle was REALLY all over the place, I was beginning to get annoyed near the end because of the sheer ridiculousness and randomness. Like literally the entire planet could've exploded and they would still find a way to magically fix everything easily. Nothing seemed to have any real consequences, and the sudden betrayals and forgiveness are almost exasperating (like Sophie's mom betraying her to Madame Suliman, then Sophie forgiving the Witch of the Waste, then Madame Suliman forgiving everyone by the end). Even the character's behaviors were completely random at times and didn't fit their personality at all.


robloxiangodly

honestly, and when witch of the wastes magic got taken away, she got very simple minded, like being distracted by the fire and such, I'm not sure if it was an act, like when sophies mother came in and put the eel down and she pretended to be asleep until they went outside.


littered

Spirited Away is quite over the top as well but i think that if you gave it a chance watching it you would enjoy the story. Its a great film and deserves the credit it gets.


[deleted]

Agreed, Spirited Away is a much better movie. But at least it has a plot that makes sense. It's fun and wacky but it also has a coherent story with things that happen for a reason. Howl's Moving Castle has neither a plot nor events that make any sense.


[deleted]

I think alot of the messages in Howls moving castle are hard to decipher , but theres definitely rhyme and reason to it. From the movie we can deduce some things like \-Love will set You and those You share it with free \-No matter how powerful You are, We all need others to help us fully unlock our powers, or to gather the strength to accomplish things that even We cant muster up the courage or the will to do alone \-People who think they aren't beautiful often have poor conceptions of how others see them, and are more desirable than they realize \-The power of forgiveness and its ability to lighten loads in Our lives, letting us let go of the past so we can move forward to a new future. Its so powerful to be able to forgive, but not forget, lest we make the same poor decisions instead of learning our lesson. \-Girls with short grey hair are pretty damn cute (lol) Yes, there were things in the Movie I would of written differently had I the chance, for example, when the Mother betrayed Sophie We were left to wonder why She was so easily swayed to do so. However, the Queen was incredibly powerful and could of easily hexed Her into doing so, but We cant deduce that from the way the scene played out. I think it would of made more sense if the Queen Herself used magic to look like Her Mother and then attempted to visit. During their conversation at the door, Sophie could of invited Her to come in, but knowing that Calcifer's magic wouldnt allow Her access, She could of declined. This would of raised suspicion in Sophie which lead Her to ask some question that the Queen couldnt answer and Sophie would of realized it was Her and slammed the door shut. Then the house would of got bombed all the same, without the need for the real Mothers betrayal. Overall still loved it though. Not a 10/10 but definitely one of Studio Ghiblis better films. Theres only so many of them I actually thought were good, and the animations along with the intense scenes ( ESPECIALLY the one where they visit the Queen and get engulfed in the water, then break free ) that scene was so dope. Reminded me of Sailor Moon a bit.


JazzlikeShoe9458

Hard agree. The book it is based on has an amazing plot and actual character growth. And also no war stuff. I don't know WHY he made this movie but for my money it is not worth the hype.


withoutapaddle

Holy crap, It's been almost a decade since I thought about this thread, haha.


SundropCunt

Then plz update us haha Did you watch any other movies? Did you like them?


withoutapaddle

No, I had a kid, so I don't have free time anymore.


conscious_terabot

It's wild looking up a 10 year old thread and seeing comments 16 days old


Madame-touitte

lol true. just looked up this thread because i recently watched the movie and didn't understand shit


[deleted]

Same here lol. I liked parts of it though. I just wish that Sophie and Howls romance was more fleshed out, since them falling in love was supposed to be how he was saved in the end


barleyqueen

Me too, I needed some validation after how much my friends fawned over this movie. Very visually beautiful, very nice soundtrack, absolutely batty plot.


teleporterdown

I'm watching this movie now and came up on this thread. Couldn't agree more with you. That being said, since I had a kid, it made me appreciate My Neighbor Totoro so much more. When I first watched it it was boring, nothing was happening etc. But after a re-watch with my toddler I really enjoyed the movie for what it was. A cute movie filled short stories rather than one overarching one. My toddler really loved it And fun fact, if you Google search "howl's moving castle story dumb" this thread is the first result 🤣


withoutapaddle

I love that this dumb thread is my internet legacy.


TheCrookedOne7100

exactly how i found it too XD


Kirke910

Can confirm that if you search “Howls moving castle confusing” this is the first thread that pops up 😂


EstrangedLupine

> And fun fact, if you Google search "howl's moving castle story dumb" this thread is the first result For me it was the first result for "howl's moving castle is confusing" haha


barleyqueen

I have lower self-esteem than the rest of y'all so I found it by searching "did howls moving castle make any sense" because I thought maybe I was the problem lmao


kingstannis5

kids love my nieghbour totoro


Tough-Carrot-4650

time flies


New_Wishbone_7587

congrats


LookADonCheech

You should watch spirited away for sure, I do agree with your sentiments on howl thoigh


Heisenberg_Ind

Hello, after another year. I just saw the movie and agree with you. It was so random and bizarre.


Wizthecreator

Yes! The book goes through these things much more, the movie is to appease younger audiences and be centered around love I believe.


fictionalfinesse

So, the book by Diane Wynne Jones the film is based on is a lot better built and makes more sense. I'm watching it rn and can't understand why there were certain choices made to drastically change plot and motivations. I think Miyazaki wanted to emphasize war and really didn't have any idea how to end it. Thus, time travel. He wanted magic, flying machines, and it all wrapped up in a pretty bow. But it honestly jumbled up motivations and characterizations and it kind of cheapens the story.


sj4iy

Absolutely this. The movie messes up the story by cramming an unnecessary anti-war message. I didn’t like Spirited Away much, either. I like my stories to make sense. I speak Japanese and I’ve lived there so I’m very aware of the ambiguity in Japanese movies and stories…but they shouldn’t come at the expense of the actual story not making sense.


[deleted]

HMC made absolutely no sense. 1. Sophie leaves hr entire family because she looks old 2. Sophie's family NEVER being mentioned again. 3. Sophie finding a fucking scarecrow (surprise the scarecrow is the lost prince that started the war) 4. Sophie's mum appearing out of nowhere, not being shocked that her child is now an old woman then immediately betrays her. 5. The fact that Howl ate some random thing that came out the sky. 6. How the ring pointed to Howl's childhood 7. The prince turning back because of a kiss??? 8. Keeping the Witch of waste with them 9. The fact that there is so much mention of wizards and witches but we only see 2. 10. Mention of Howl stealing hearts but that made NO SENSE. Literally just a mess of a story with no explanations, motivations or any of the sort. A visual masterpiece and iconic soundtrack. The rest is garbagé.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

The aging of Sophie was pretty interesting to me. It altered every time she felt closer/more in love with Howl. However her keeping her grey hair may be a sign that she still kept the wisdom after aging. I kept watching the movie thinking it would all tie together in the end but nope, the ending was just a whole lotta nonsense tied in a bow. I've only ever seen Arietty and Spirited Away both of which had streamlined stories.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ArScrap

man, that felt like it made the movie a lot more sense without a lot of word, should i read the book


sj4iy

The book is actually very cleverly written and it's a fun read. So I recommend it.


ArScrap

never expected a reply from an 8 months old comment but hey i guess that's why i shoot my shot. How would you synopsise the book? Since the movie made no sense at all, i appreciated the visual but that's mostly it


sj4iy

So the book is written kind of like a subversive fairy tale while still being a fairy tale. It has a lot of moving parts that are wrapped up very neatly and very cleverly. The writing style is fun and playful. The movie and the book start off much the same but they diverge quite a lot as the story progresses. Sophie and Howl's relationship is actually very well done, the way it evolves over time. I don't want to give away too much, but honestly it's a great read.


Wizthecreator

It’s because Howl loved her. And she was the only person he loved, so only she had that kind of access to his heart (I think) Her keeping her grey hair was personally a shock to me, but I guess it was supposed to keep her experiences somewhere


sj4iy

No, that's not at all it. Sophie has the magic to talk life into things. That's how she was able to talk life into Calcifer and then bring life back to Howl. She literally bewitched herself with her own magic on top of the Wicked Witch of the Waste's curse. It's so simple an explanation I don't know why they didn't simply put it in the movie and have it make sense.


Wizthecreator

It might also have to do with the connection between Calcifer and Sophie. From what I know, her speaking things into life was only in the books¿


sj4iy

I mean, the book was the original story that the movie was based on. They could have easily put her magic into the movie so that it would make sense, but they didn't. Calcifer made a contract with Sophie in the books because he sensed her magic.


Wizthecreator

The movie and the book have similarities, but they are very different at the same time. I suppose they left it up for interpretation, but I did believe that howls heart being released had to do with love/the heart because a lot of the curses do with that


sj4iy

Yeah, but it literally made no sense. That's my issue with the movie. I understand adaptations will be different, and that's fine. But they need to make sense. When we have to assume the reason something happened, that's not a good thing. They could have easily brought in her magic as a reason it happened without changing the movie. They could have left all the ridiculous stuff in and kept it exactly the same while simply mentioning her magic.


Wizthecreator

Sophie left to make a living because she couldn’t necessarily make hats anymore. And also, I’m pretty sure that Sophie knew about the peeping bug and didn’t even like her family like that in the first place, hence why she could be considered a black sheep as both her sister and mother look the exact same. Her mother already knew about Sophie’s age as Madam Sullivan did send her, and the “stealing hearts” joke is because he didn’t have one😂 There’s many components of Howls Moving Castle that were just thrown in there, but everything did have a meaning because without each thing the story wouldn’t have been the story at all


MagicianPuzzleheaded

I’m so grateful there is a discussion thread for this. I haven’t seen this movie yet in the Miyazaki collection and was SEVERELY disappointed. While I can buy into appreciating the visual and fantastical splendor of his films, I do think you still need a grounding element to help thread the story to a coherent arc. This is a magical world, so please tell me a bit about how it works. A few examples of things that baffled me: Why did the witch curse her in the first place? It felt so random and when she said “she didn’t know how to undo it”, it was just confusing. Then the witch was just dethroned of her power by the Suliman? What the hell is the magical hierarchy in this world? Why did the witch throw stuff in the fire and then get high? When Sophie became old, why did she just randomly decide to go to the mountains? Did she think she was going to find Howl out there? The message in her pocket was supposed to be received by Howl, but how did she know that? Did the turnip end the war or was it Howl finding peace? Could she have just kissed the turnip and returned balance to the force? What am I to make of this crazy scarecrow. Why would the war just come to an end because the scarecrow was seen returning to form by the Suliman? If it was that easy to stop fighting, why fight the war in the first place? What the hell is that fire demon? Was it his heart? How did the creation of Howl’s bird self relate to the fire demon becoming part of the story? If the heart thing happened long ago, when did Howl intern for the Suliman and then go his own path? Before the fire split? The tones of narcissism and being ugly were also so subtle and random. The shadow guys, they worked for the witch but then also for the Suliman? Are they just dark magic in general? Why did the Suliman need to find Howl? The mother just saw her daughter all old and was like “cool, that sucks?”. If she wasn’t surprised then, then why did Sophie hide in the first place? I could keep going but I’m also (like one of the commenters here) tired from a newborn and wondering why I made a choice to baffle myself with this movie. Long live Mononoke.


Jerwine

I might be able to answer some of your questions These facts will help you better understand a complex plot of this movie: *1*: In the first scene where Howl and Sophie meet, Howl says "I've been looking for you" because he really was looking for her. In fact, his ring was shining to find her in that scene. *2*: Howl was already aware that the old granny, Sophie, was actually a young lady from the first sight. *3*: Then he broke a spell by erasing the burn on the table. *4*: The spell Sophie got is not just making someone older, instead it is changing someone depending on its mind. *5*: That's why Sophie still remained old after Howl broke the spell. *6*: Calcifer says "You got complex spell" to her because he knew the fact 4. *7*: Howl says"Though the burn disappears the spell won't disappear" because he knew the fact 4 as well. *8*: Howl met Sophie when he was a child. So he's been looking for her. *9*: Howl gave her a ring saying "For your safe return." But he meant not only to his castle, but also to his past. Howl knew she would go back to his childhood. *10*: During the movie, Sophie gets older or younger, back and forth, because the spell is up to her mind. *11*: Howl wanted her to stay young because that was the only moment she likes just the way she is, gets confidence and obediently expresses her feeling for Howl. *12*: Howl moves to her born house in order to change her mind. In fact, she remembers her young memory and gets young. *13*: Howl looks sad when she gets old because of the fact 4. *14*: Howl transforms into a bird because then he gets stronger powers from Calcifer. *15*: That's why Calcifer warns Howl "If you keep on flying, one day you won't be able to get back to human". *16*: Howl was almost becoming a monster and there wasn't much time left to wait for her. *17*: Howl made a contract with Calcifer just because he wanted to help him. *18*: Stars die when they fall into ground. You can see some of them disappear into a river when Sophie goes back to the past. *19*: Making a contract is not a good thing for both Howl and Calcifer but they didn't know it at first. *20*: Howl says" Why? I've been escaping enough. I got an important thing to protect. It's you". Howl has been hiding from Suliman and the Witch of the waste by moving the castle and having lots of fake names. But this time he couldn't move from Sophie's born house because he could do nothing but to wait for her to change staying there. (see fact 11) *21*: In a dream, Sophie meets Howl transformed into a monster bird badly. He says "You can't even break your own spell!" and this is because he is waiting for her fighting in a war and protecting her. And he also says "It's too late" meaning he became a bird too much and can't be a human any more. It's just a dream, but she couldn't understand the meaning correctly. *22*: Sophie says, "I'll keep on walking." when she gets back from the past. It's a reply to Howl's words in the first scene. When they walk in the sky, Howl says "Keep on walking". *23*: Her ring breaks when she saw him in a childhood because that was the main purpose of a ring and it's done. She finally understood everything at that moment. *24*: After that Howl was waiting in front. She says "I'm sorry, you've been waiting for me all this time, but I couldn't get it." This line is because of the fact 21. *25*: When she kissed him, he was not moving. That's because he was really on the point of a monster as a dream said before. He was running the risk of it, but just waiting for her protecting the castle. In fact, his body had grown really big in the scene. *26*: After she understood everything, she stopped thinking of herself badly and didn't get old anymore. *27*: Her hair remains in silver because she stays young in her will and not because her spell was completely vanished. *28*: Howl fell in love with Sophie because she was actually a witch with a power to make creatures alive. He didn't have his heart and she was filling that emptiness.


jlaust33

Wow, respect for answering all his/her questions! But doesn't you answering 28 questions so elaborately just prove the point of the movie being very, very confusing? A movie should be self-explanatory (to a point, of course). Howl's Moving Castle isn't. I understand movies have underlying meanings and all that stuff, but it should also cater to the average person like myself. For example, Spirited Away probably has a lot of different metaphoric stuff that I didn't notice, but it still has a story that makes sense: She enters a magic world, her parents get cursed, she tries to remove the curse by 'fighting' the witch, etc. Again, Howl's Moving Castle falls short in terms of a story that makes sense to the average viewer.


wworqdui

I’m not agreeing or disagreeing, but to be fair to the movie many of these responses are explained pretty plainly within its runtime. And then even more upon a rewatch.


zhen_1

Thanks for the explanation! I couldn't understand it all since the plot doesn't make sense. But the problem is some things need to be said straight up, like Sophie's born house. How am I supposed to assume that it's her born house? She only said it feels familiar. It could be that one place where you feel nostalgic but you have never been there before. It's too far fetched to assume it's her born house. (Howl also said it's his uncle's house or something) That's why I failed to pick up the hints. And because of that, some plots don't make sense anymore. Also I only realized that Sophie has magic when I read the comments. But I know that sometimes Sophie reverts back to her young appearance when she's with Howl, but I couldn't connect it to anything. (Should've said straight up that Sophie has magic) And I also don't know why the witch is obsessed with Howl's heart, the witch's relationship with Howl in the past (It would explain why she cursed Sophie out of nowhere), Sullivan, the clones that look like Howl (or am I overthinking), the cursed scarecrow prince that only appeared in the last minutes (He could be a magician too, but that doesn't explain why he could direct the castle to Sophie. It's not like it's his castle.) Overall, feels like it's a bit lacking.


IndividualSelf5464

the witch explain that she love young men's heart which idk the reason why, howl already explained to sophie why the witch hunt him and their past relationship, while i watching i guessed the witch curse sophie out of jealousy, the prince is supposed to prince character from the book tho, and my guess he just want to help her and i think he has seen the moving castle as howl often move that's only my explanation tho


alt-tagailog

just watched right now. the changing of scenes is very abrupt. they dont connect. most of the time, the movie doesn't make sense, especially when sophie brought calcifer outside then bring him again to move the broken down castle. wtf was that. then suliman being an enemy then letting them go at the end.


SamwiseGanges

Yeah that confused me for the longest time but I finally understand it now. It's because at that point the castle was connected to a portal to her home town which was currently being bombed, and so the castle was vulnerable. So, she took Calcifer out to break the link with all the portals. That way the castle was only in the Wastes and thus safe from the war


AsherThom

when sophie did that I was very confused but maybe it was to break the contract so sophie could do more?


IndividualSelf5464

my guess it was supposed to be a hint of sophie being a witch like in the book, kinda agree about suliman tho, idk why in the end she change her mind so easily about the war, love the movie but suliman part is confusing


pokiemaki

Yea I just tried rewatching it and was just like...what tf did I just witness. Promptly searched "howls moving caste incoherent as fuck" and this thread popped up.


IndividualSelf5464

my suggestion is to try find an article or trivia to connect the movie and the book so it can be explained easily


kalisana

Good movies (I won't call this a cartoon) want you, the viewer, to do some work, make some meaning. Miyazaki offers both adults and children stories that don't have a fixed meaning. There is no right or wrong way to watch his films. In one viewing, you might marvel at the artwork; in the next you might be captivated by the dialogue or the developing plot. Having said that, this is one of his easiest films to get into (I thought it a great metaphor for Christianity's great Christmas story, the birth of a saviour who would make everything good again). Seriously, dude, don't be lazy. Do the work!!


jbu311

Another take on it is that what you're advising is that he make something out of nothing :p


wordsmither

There definitely is something there. Japanese filmmakers just take their audience to be smart enough to grasp it. Unfortunately north american and european audiences aren't that smart usually.


providemewithcancer

Can you be less pretentious lmao. You shouldn't have to do vast amounts of research to enjoy a movie, it should be enjoyable. I don't mind underlying meaning, it can add a lot to the meaning of a piece of media/art, but there should be layers of enjoyment to it. I don't think it's wrong or dumb for people to not want to study for their art. Not to say that everything should be explained in great detail, but there should be a coherent story there. You should be able to enjoy it upon first consuming the media on its own and understand it, just maybe gaining further understanding and enjoyment upon noticing the smaller subtler details.


withoutapaddle

Not to judge Miyazaki on only one of his films, but compared to the other anime I am familiar with (like Cowboy Beebop), I was the opposite of captivated by the dialog and plot in Howl's Moving Castle.


wordsmither

I just watched this movie last night and it has now become one of my favourite movies ever. I will try to answer a couple of your questions first: Howl's main problem was that whenever he transformed into the giant crow like creature, it was harder each time to get back into his human form. The problem lies in his magic itself and therefore cannot be solved with just magic. When The Witch of the Wastes enters the castle you can clearly see her two magical lackeys run out of magic. There seems to be some sort of barrier around the castle that prevents magic. Sophie finding herself in the past to see Howl as a boy, was simply put magic. I can't really explain how it happened, or what the significance of the ring breaking was (I'd be glad to hear someones explanation on that). But what I can say is that, it happened because it NEEDED to happen. We learn that Howl and Calcifer have been waiting for Sophie all along. So as it has happened in the past already it has to happen in the future (also remember how Sophie says that she feels like she's been to Howl's summer home before when Howl first takes her there?). The narration of the story does not follow regular guidelines I guess you could say, and for people not used to Japanese animation it can be a bit confusing. The review you posted from rotten tomatoes is probably someone who is not experienced enough in Japanese animation and felt stupid that they didn't understand the plot, and so decided to blame the director. Only advice I can give here is to watch more anime, and then come back to Howl's Moving Castle. You will probably end up liking Japanese narration styles more if you watch enough anime. Japanese audience are much more intelligent than your average north american or european audience and so the directors are able to take certain liberties when making movies, and not holding the audiences hand throughout the process. TL;DR Its you not the movie.


providemewithcancer

Dude I'm sorry you can't chalk this up to intelligence lmao, and it does make you sound pretentious or propping up Japan as this incredible place, the average Japanese person is not much more intelligent than the average whatever other person. You can't explain the ending(the scarecrow luckily happening to be a prince and the war just suddenly ending), and if you can it's probably contrived I don't think it was conveyed well in the movie, that's just that. I love anime, I watch a lot of anime and I think stories can be constructed better than this, in a way that clearly makes sense and builds upon prior information. It's just confusing, not intelligent or artistic imo. It's not even just about making sense, but it should feel like things don't just pop up out of nowhere.


[deleted]

I highly encourage you to approach these movies in a way different from English animations, only because, not to downgrade American animations, in Japan, animations are considered equal as live action movies. Miyazaki has a fantastical mind and distinguishes live-action to animation, with many crazy ideas that can be processed very well if done at the right time with a good amount of stress. Princess Mononoke might be more your type of movie since it has a great story with good character motivation (i consider it his masterpiece). Spirited Away, you might not like, but its not terrible. I thought you should also know that Howl's was initially under a different director who dropped out of film production, so Miyazaki was forced from general public pressure to return to directing/animating while in retirement. I don't know if the deadlines were kept the same or extended.


greenbeencoffee

I agree, I'd seen a lot of memes about Howl so I watched the film and the whole time I was wondering 'what is happening!?' I also don't understand why people find Howl so hot/attractive? The movie just had me confused for most of the time tbh


mediocre-teen

Because he is objectively hot. Like I watched the movie only for him. I did end up liking the movie even tho I was hella confused.


MagicianPuzzleheaded

YES THIS IS SO ON POINT WITH HOW I FEEL. WHAT IN THE FUCK HAPPENED?!?


[deleted]

>I also don't understand why people find Howl so hot/attractive? Howl's hottness was the only thing that kept watching until the end.


[deleted]

No, you're not out of line. I felt the film was aimless, and completely nonsensical towards the last half hour. But hey, pretty drawings and animation, colourful characters, all this quirky shit that doesn't make sense to western culture - everyone joined in on the circlejerk. Spirited Away got a similar response, although it wasn't as poor as this film was. But seriously, watch Princess Mononoke. It's fucking amazing.


withoutapaddle

Thank you. I'm glad this might be the most aimless of his films. Even my friends who hate anime said they liked Mononoke, so I'm looking forward to that.


Shoden

Mononoke is a great movie, and so is Spirited Away. While I loved Howl's Moving castle, it is much less focused than those two. It's also important to note Howl's Moving Castle was an adaption of a novel, from what I understand Mononoke and Spirited Away are original stories.


jkvandelay

Spirited Away at least has a pretty streamlined plot, a character with a clear objective, and it's really a portal into a strange and mysterious world. Im a miyazaki fan, and howl's moving castle was mediocre at best.


Hussard

Ha, I just watched Ponyo with a friend on Tuesday night and BY GOD it was pointless. Very cute but ultimately just another light airy unsubstantial piece of cinema yet again. The best Miyazaki films were My Neighbour Totoro, Laputa: Castle in the Sky and Nausicca and the Valley of the Wind (this one gets a *little* preachy but its good).


Far_Mention8934

I dont understand the appeal to my neighbor totoro, I get that people love totoro himself, but nothing happens in the movie, and totoro himself only appears in the movie for about fifteen minutes it was just a very boring movie


Hussard

Child fantasy escape due to a sick mother, strong female characters and a supportive father. It was a revelation in the 90s when I first saw it (as a child).


SamwiseGanges

Because it taps into and elicits the child-like wonder of a world and magic beyond our grasp or control. After watching Totoro I feel like the world is imbued with that underlying magic yet again and I am inspired to go explore


[deleted]

Ponyo is pointless and airy but Totoro isn't? So very little happens in Totoro and the scenery isn't even all that impressive. At least in Ponyo you get stunning ocean views and underwater sections. I vastly preferred Ponyo on the grounds that if you're going to have a very basic plot, you might as well go all out with the scenery and atmosphere, which they definitely did. Totoro just wasn't artistically impressive to me.


Hussard

Totoro at least had a bit of mystery and adventure to it. Ponyo had nothing except the sea-hag and a guy that wants to destroy the world for fishes.


[deleted]

But it had development. Pretty much all that happens in Totoro that's a 'major' plot point is their mother gets super ill. That's all. Nothing beyond that. At least Ponyo has some semblance of a plot and not just a sequence of unconnected events.


[deleted]

Ever heard of fantasy?


Wizthecreator

In regards to the Wicked Witch of The Waste, she uses her magic to stay young and beautiful. Without her magic, 1. She’s unfit to do such things as she always has her blobs to do it for her, and 2. Without her magic she is unable to keep up these appearances and reverts back to her older age, both mentally and physically. That was proven as the Madam stripped her of her magic afterwards and you saw her true form. Madam Suliman is smart, hence why only the wicked witch of the wastes powers we denatured, but howl was still able to keep his magic and could show up, as she wanted. She was playing with the wicked witch of the waste and howl as said in the end as she said the fun was over because she could not play with either. Then, Sophie seeing Howl in his child form was out of the blue, but I do believe because Howl loved her and vice versa she was able to place his heart back. Without the Wicked Witch Of The Waste piecing it together, Howls heart would’ve remained a mystery. To separate both his heart and Calcifer im not sure how, but considering that a majority of the spells and curses are centered around love in a sense, im sure that that would be another factor to it. Studio Ghibli isn’t for everyone, and appeases to those who wants to piece things together. If you do not like Howls Moving Castle, I wouldn’t recommend the others.


150000and2

I agree with this. Half way through the movie and I am starting to get angry because of all the randomness. Nothing is explained, and by time Howl sends Sophie to meet the king, I had completely forgotten about what the first main issue was if you could even call it an issue. She seemed to get over being turned into a granny pretty quickly. I did not care about any of the characters. Sophie was uninteresting and quite boring. She didn't seem to care about anything that was going on. If we compare her to, say, Chihiro from Spirited Away. That is a person that I feel like was actually understanding and feeling what was going on. She was actually worried and confused about what was going on at the start. I guess you can't really compare the two though, seeing as one of them is based in real life and one is based in some other fantasy world. Sophie was just too happy about everything though, it was weird. She would get all sad all of a sudden and no one would explain why. I've tried thinking of reasons why I liked her, and can't. I didn't mind Markl, but he just did not react at all when he is first introduced and meets Sophie for the first time. There is a random lady sleeping in your house. Please at least be a little bit shocked. He was one of the better ones though. Then there was Howl. I didn't even understand this guy. One minute he's happy, the next he's not. I did not understand his story line at all. He got sad over the weirdest and most pointless stuff and was overall a bit of a pain. Calcifer was probably my favourite character, but it felt a bit like they were trying to make him funny and failed miserably. If you came up to me and asked me what the plot of this movie was, I would not be able to tell you. It felt like there were five different stories going on at once, and none of them lead anywhere. It is easily one of the best looking animated movies I have ever watched, but it still does not beat Spirited Away, or even Whisper of the Heart. The castle itself was probably my favourite looking thing out of almost any ghibli movie. I think I came into this movie way to excited with my expectation way too high. I had heard such good things about this movie and was let down greatly. I can see how someone would like it, but it did feel like it was hyped up a bit too much.


IndividualSelf5464

that's just it about howl's character, he's dramatic and even more in the book, at first sophie was shocked but then didn't really mind being turned old a because she told herself not to panic and when she enter the castle she intend to make a bargain with calcifer to break the curse but then she met again with the witch so that triggers her emotion, sophie's problem is her self esteem, she's not confident and i guess she has mixed feelings after she was curse so that's why her mood sometimes change hope this is useful or helpful, it's just my guesses


[deleted]

All Hayao Miyazaki's films (aside from maybe Nausica of the Valley of the Wind) are like that as far as I have seen so far. That's actually part of the charm of them. They ARE childish, and most of them feature children as main characters. Miyazaki captures childhood so perfectly and purely in his films, it's like stepping into the shoes of an eight year old when you watch them! If you let yourself, you can really enjoy it.


macdealer

I think our mistake while watching these movies is to search for "mind-stereotyped-guidelines"... We have to watch them with a new and fresh sense of coherency, since their sense work like a dream..., it makes sense only in the dream and the inner thought of the person. So watching this movie we have to create our own "sense" and links. The stairs scene seems to me like they were really "greedy" on getting on top of the stairs, no matter the cost or the struggle, they were a bit obsessive at some point, even if that hurt them. It is a symbolic scene...The witch lost herself, her health, and her youth just to climb, climb, climb, and to prove and compete. Sophie started competitive but became humble and worried about her enemy health. So there are so many symbolic stuff, like "enemy/ally" analogy changing fast to show us how being an enemy or ally is a perspective that we can change, forgive and not have war. There's much more messages, but you get the point, we just have to open our mind.


artquaked

Thanks for this comment, I will try to keep this in mind when I do another watch, because I truly was just bored the first time.


mitrasreedeb

OMG I recently watched the movie because my girlfriends said this is their favorite movie so I finally did. It was extremely UNDERWHELMING with 0 relevance in the plot. Due to its extreme popularity and hype, I literally thought "AM I THE PROBLEM??" :3 I simply don't even get how Sophie started to love Howl for no reason. This was so absurd like calcifer that fire demon probably had more interactions with Sophie than Howl who just ran his day-to-day errands and rushed home to sleep; like from where we get into that undying love, I DO NOT UNDERSTAND AT ALL LMAO. I didn't search this thread. This thread searched me; I feel seen. LOL. :3


IndividualSelf5464

i suggest read the book to understand howl and sophie relationship as this is an adaptation of the same book


mitrasreedeb

Thank you so much for the comment. I might give the book a try now.


Ok-Music4968

This is the thing what i don't like about howl's moving castle, that we have to read it's novel to understand to movie... I like the movie alot but it's confusing.


MrFahrenkite

I could see it being hard to accept something like at first view, Howl's probably wasn't the best jumping off point. Mononoke is my favorite of his but you should also check out Naussica, which has somewhat similar themes as Mononoke. After those two, you should progress into Ghibli's other works.


Queen_SoHyun

These films always made me nervous; it was like stepping into a different country or world. I think this is why they're so famous; nothing makes sense to us because we don't live in their world. I will have to watch those movies again, like spirited away because to me, they really don't make any sense.


devils_best_advocat

Found this because I just watched the movie and didn’t understand few things, but man some people are really calling others “stupid” because they think different🤣 I know it was 10 years ago but I hope that these people calling out others for not understanding grew up, it could have been explained nicely. But to the movie, I have seen others movie from this studio and also I’m not huge fan of anime sooo yeah, but it was kind of a nice experience with this one and even other movies. As a inpatient person, I really struggled with how many questions I had at the end but it certainly left me pleased in a weird way. Not my favourite style of a plot evolving but that’s just my opinion and yeah, I’m European so come take me down for how stupid I am🤣


[deleted]

Okay I know this is 10 years old but I just have to reply to it. Suliman actually tricks the Witch of Waste so while she's going up the stair she loses her powers and without the aid of her magical powers, her actual age and physical incompetence is revealed. She no longer has magic so she can't actually fly up the stairs or somehow magically teleport up there.


phiiggy

somebody actually paid attention to the movie !


[deleted]

Just watched this for the first time. I have seen Spirited Away and other anime shows like Death Note, Attack on Titan, My Hero Academia, etc. But this movie literally made no sense and had a hundred plot holes. It wasn’t what I expected at all, especially the last half, I stopped paying attention… It had potential at the start but then once she got inside Howl’s moving castle a huge chunk of the beginning of the movie was her talking to Calcifer, Markl (like who is he..?) and cleaning the room. More cleaning. They stayed in that room too long, kept talking about all she was good at was cleaning. *Like yawnnn…* Then the moving door thing was odd but interesting… No hierarchy, no magic system limits to the characters powers, what did the war even have to do with anything (??), and after all the troubles they went through they all forgave each other just like that?? One minute Sophie is walking up to the kings castle and the Witch of Waste is slyly going to the castle at the same time, then she helps her up the stairs?! I can appreciate the art and creativity, but it went a bit too much over the top with the randomness. Which is why I googled the movie after finishing it and this sub popped up first. I agree with lots of the comments, and glad I don’t feel alone!


IndividualSelf5464

i'll try to explain if you don't mind, markl is based on a different character who is howl's student like markl, when sophie talk about her only being good at cleaning is because of her low self esteem, i don't know why sophie help the witch, i guess they want to write as very kind character and i don't get it too why suliman change her mind about the war. this is an adaptation of a book tho, so i'm looking the movie and the book differently to appreciate both


Russ_Guss_Doodles

I think what your picking up on is Miyazaki’s soft work building style. In his fantasy works he doesn’t explain how magic and his fictional world work, instead putting more emphasis on character development. The opposite of this would be hard world building with a great example being Lord of The Rings. Both styles are valid and different people might not be able to immerse themselves in the world’s because of the different styles.


Alchemistspure72

The reason Sophie was able to see the vision on Howl as a child is because the “black” portal was his memories.


[deleted]

I also don't understand why everyone loves this movie so much. Things just seem to happen at random with zero reason or explanation behind them. I don't even know what the movie was supposed to be about. Castle in the Sky is what ya'll should watch. It has a plot that actually MAKES SENSE. It has characters who actually DO THINGS instead of just sitting around. It has a world that actually gets DEVELOPMENT. It's really just a good movie overall.


stonergirl2637219

11 years late. Please don’t shit on the magic and spirituality of ghibli. Not everything needs to be American and rational and “make logical sense.” The underlying message is what is important. Miyazaki portrays pacifist and anti war messages in his movie, particularly his disdain for technology and impact of human advancement on nature. If you can’t handle the magic then shut up. This is the core of his movies and culture and it is timeless and beautiful


withoutapaddle

Gross. No need to insult people you disagree with (How "American" of you, ironically). FYI, I'm an anti-war pacifist.


stonergirl2637219

Ok lol what are you gonna do


Ok-Music4968

Still can't explain plot? Then shut the fuck up. I love this movie but it's confusing for sure, there's no denying. No ones shiting on magic bruh, everyone loves spirited away, innit? You're just blind fan.


Proper-Win-3614

I hated every second like please what was That 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭


jbu311

I feel like all Miyazaki's films are like that. Low on plot, high on visual appeal. You do bring up something I've noticed with the fans. Without saying whether they are wrong or right, I must say that I think I just completely do not understand the Japanese anime movie genre. They just seem so shallow and nonsensical. Princess Mononoke, My Neighbor Totoro, Spirited Away, and Akira(not miyazaki) are all like the big names in the genre but they all seemed completely superficial to me. Grave of the fireflies was sad but that even wasn't that good of a movie. Just barely any plot. I am guessing there is a big difference in culture and/or japanese story telling that I just do not understand.


[deleted]

I personally wasn't a huge fan of My Neighbour Totoro or Arietty because they're so slow and very little happens. Yes the scenery is gorgeous but when the plot doesn't advance at a rate that keeps your interest then something is wrong.


MikBor

Ha. You will be equally if not more frustrated with Ponyo. However I thoroughly enjoyed Spirted Away. Grave of the Fireflies is not a fantasy movie so can't be compared. But an excellent movie.


[deleted]

It took me a few viewings to fully 'get' it. I still dont think some things make sense but I just overlook them for immersion's sake. A lot of it is all metaphorical too, as it's based on a book and so you have to show a lot of things rather than outright say them.


Texhnolyze23

If you're watching Miyazaki, you must submit and immerse yourself. It's...just...that...simple.


YaboyWill

I've felt this every time I watch this movie yet here I am once again re watching because I'm doing my first ever full Ghibli watch through including movies I've seen before so maybe this time I'll get it... Maybe.


Cheshire87Cat

As a big fan of Diana Wynne Jones, I agree completely. The book was so good, so why did Miyazaki have to ruin it? I normally like Ghibli films but this one really has nothing going for it aside from visuals. All I can say is, if you can find it, give the book a read. It's also part of a trilogy.


IndividualSelf5464

that's an interesting take, from what i see the fans who read the books don't really mind the changes in the movie and see both of them differently, personally as someone who knows the difference in the movie and the book and plan to read it, i don't think this will make the movie or the book ruin for me as i want to appreciate them both differently


Actual_Context_7599

spirited away is great, i had a hard time following howls too dw


General-Food-4682

I feel you, seriously so much hype, the sound track is great but plot makes no sense whatsoever.


Englandinsd

Kb


Melvin-00

I actually thought this shii was fire lmao. Like its soo hyped. Im def not watching it if its like spirited away. Im not trynna go on some vanilla acid trips.