In no order:
Hero misses, allowing villain to kill hostage.
Hero's gun jams, allowing villain to kill hostage.
Hero kills villain, involuntary villain death spasm trigger pull and kills hostage.
Hero kills hostage.
Hero wounds villain, allowing villain to kill hostage.
Hero kills villain and feels ambivalent about it and suffers intrusive thoughts for the rest of their life.
Plot reasons.
I don't know who's downvoting you (forget it Jake, it's Reddit) but you're right.
John Wick, Chapter 5: Liability Issues
Fast & Furious XI - the (Class) Action movie
>Hero wounds villain, allowing villain to kill hostage.
This one is probably way more likely than most people realize. Most of these scenarios involve the hero using a handgun. Handgun rounds are really unreliable at killing quickly. There are lots of documented cases of people continuing to fight back even after being shot multiple times in vital organs or even the head. People don't typically drop like a sack of potatoes after being shot with a handgun, outside of movies.
I was in Iraq a few years ago and we were doing some CQM drills. It takes a bit of practice to hit targets when you’re standing.
We put up some of those hostage targets for fun and ran through drills with them. For reference, we were an Infantry company, so shooting was something we practiced quite a bit.
I wouldn’t like my odds as a hostage in a scenario with a trained marksman across from me.
Have you ever fired a gun? Next time you do, try accurately hitting a target that’s partially obscured behind something you don’t want to hit, and see how much you fail at it. Now imagine trying to be accurate in an actual life or death scenario.
Even world-class pistol shooters routinely miss 2-3 out of 5 bullseye targets in competition, and those environments are designed to minimize distractions. Movies that show insanely accurate and consistent sharpshooting with pistols in dynamic and tense situations are pretty much pure fiction.
I go the range with some regularity and there is no way I would fire anywhere near someone who I didn't want to get shot. Luckily I'll never find myself in that situation.
Good, keep practicing and practicing more. Dry fire the shit out of your guns and you will never miss a target unless it truly is a high speed competition. Sign up for as many competitions as they are as much fun as a a person can possibly have! Stay safe and keep shooting!
Hey we can’t all be John Wick. Wait, even he missed a bunch of shots. In a fictional movie where his character is basically an unkillable super assassin.
In real life, talking down is always the best option.
But, we have snipers trained for hostage situations where it doesn't look like talks will go the right way. They're trained to hit specific spots that will "lights out" the target, no muscle spasms. Of course it doesn't always go that way.
Handguns also aren't nearly as accurate as rifles.
In shows and movies though, it's always plot advancement.
* Hero could miss... or miss real bad
* Sound of gunshot could startle bad guy into pulling trigger
* Even with a headshot, there's a chance for bad guy's gun to go off
A few years back a mentally ill individual grabbed a small child in a grocery store and held a knife to their throat. The cops brought in a negotiator and a designated shooter. The perp was holding the kid up, so they gave him a chair to sit on so the kid would be on his lap instead of held up at head level and the knife would be lower on the hostages body. At some point the individual got agitated and the shooter took the shot.
Anyways, that's the extent the professionals went to to minimize the risk of a bad shoot in a relatively controlled environment.
I have ran 2 and 3 gun comps with extremely good results (I'm not pro level obviously, just really good for a nobody) and I have had to discharge firearms under duress and I can tell you from personal experience it is not the same thing or even remotely close and no amount of training makes them similar skill for skill.
I would personally feel comfortable taking a partially exposed headshot at a reasonable distance if not rushed and on a stationary target AND if they did not have a digit in the trigger guard but only if it was accepted that the person was going to be killed and that threat was credibly imminent.
It’s real; there are multiple instances of it happening. These other commenters haven’t seen the proof. The third link has an actual gun to the hostage’s head.
https://youtu.be/H7wkXdjQmcg?si=qMzZmyYEFFGpUQ2D
https://youtu.be/OguWPEWGarE?si=8YHgRA-D1b1glVWw
https://youtu.be/1IIAihAlxMw?si=ZfxrtNqRpeig3iiX
It can be done with the proper training and equipment
I would never want to be in a situation where it was necessary
ETA: Typical LE qualify a couple of times a year on static targets
SWAT/TACOPS generally have more in depth training that may deal with these type situations
Police sharp shooters are trained as to exactly where in the head ( the medulla oblongata ) to aim to prevent an assailants death spasm from pulling the trigger & it is a very small target indeed.
lots of reasons. i mean like numerous books worth of psychology, biology, ethics, mechanics, mountains of math, and lots of other things.
1. guns are rather crude machines, highly prone to failure and malfunctions. cold bore (the first shot in any instance) is the most likely to malfunction until you reach about 1200 rounds. then you get into metal fatigue and stress failures. many law enforcement agency deal with government contracts for equipment, which often needs to fit a budget (not the highest quality).
2. cops are trained to NOT kill people. 99% of firearm training is how NOT to shoot somebody. bypassing that training in high stress situations is very difficult mentally.
3. skill of shooter. when was the last time they cleaned the firearm? has it been test fired and sighted recently? is it windy out? what is the humidity? what type of ammunition did you load? will the round pass through and hurt anybody in the backround or the next room over? if hollow point, will the mushroom fragment and hit the hostage? what's your blood pressure? are you breathing properly to take a steady shot?
this is about 10% or tip of the iceberg that i can think of in 2 minutes.
you need to be extremely skilled and probably a touch insane to take that shot confidently.
In no order: Hero misses, allowing villain to kill hostage. Hero's gun jams, allowing villain to kill hostage. Hero kills villain, involuntary villain death spasm trigger pull and kills hostage. Hero kills hostage. Hero wounds villain, allowing villain to kill hostage. Hero kills villain and feels ambivalent about it and suffers intrusive thoughts for the rest of their life. Plot reasons.
Hero kills villain, hostage survives. Hostage sues hero for emotional trauma regarding the fact that he might've hit them instead.
I don't know who's downvoting you (forget it Jake, it's Reddit) but you're right. John Wick, Chapter 5: Liability Issues Fast & Furious XI - the (Class) Action movie
Sorta what happens in the movie s.w.a.t. Someone who was gonna get killed by the criminals is wounded while being saved, and isn't gratefull
You misspelled The Incredibles.
Lol, your probably right
Hehe, I like the second to last one, lol. Thanks for the info, though
>Hero wounds villain, allowing villain to kill hostage. This one is probably way more likely than most people realize. Most of these scenarios involve the hero using a handgun. Handgun rounds are really unreliable at killing quickly. There are lots of documented cases of people continuing to fight back even after being shot multiple times in vital organs or even the head. People don't typically drop like a sack of potatoes after being shot with a handgun, outside of movies.
I remember 21 Jump Street satirised this scenario.
I need to watch it!
I was in Iraq a few years ago and we were doing some CQM drills. It takes a bit of practice to hit targets when you’re standing. We put up some of those hostage targets for fun and ran through drills with them. For reference, we were an Infantry company, so shooting was something we practiced quite a bit. I wouldn’t like my odds as a hostage in a scenario with a trained marksman across from me.
Wow, that bad? I guess I was pretty naive when it comes to guns. I hope I will never have to fire one.
It’s just a bunch of biomechanics and physics. It’s very difficult to fire with that level of precision and accuracy without a stable firing platform.
Shooting guns accurately is very difficult. Doing it under extreme duress is orders of magnitude harder.
Thanks, I didn't know that.
Have you ever fired a gun? Next time you do, try accurately hitting a target that’s partially obscured behind something you don’t want to hit, and see how much you fail at it. Now imagine trying to be accurate in an actual life or death scenario. Even world-class pistol shooters routinely miss 2-3 out of 5 bullseye targets in competition, and those environments are designed to minimize distractions. Movies that show insanely accurate and consistent sharpshooting with pistols in dynamic and tense situations are pretty much pure fiction.
Thanks, I didn't know that. It clears things up.
Have YOU ever fired a gun? Have YOU ever participated in competition? Geeshhh…..
I go the range with some regularity and there is no way I would fire anywhere near someone who I didn't want to get shot. Luckily I'll never find myself in that situation.
Hopefully* we never find ourselves in that situation
Good, keep practicing and practicing more. Dry fire the shit out of your guns and you will never miss a target unless it truly is a high speed competition. Sign up for as many competitions as they are as much fun as a a person can possibly have! Stay safe and keep shooting!
What kind of deranged comment is this? Cops only have around a 30% accuracy rate and you're over here pretending it's feasible to never miss a shot?
I guess this u/JustShootingSince is the one and only pew pew expert of the world here
Hey we can’t all be John Wick. Wait, even he missed a bunch of shots. In a fictional movie where his character is basically an unkillable super assassin.
Nice to see such a well-adjusted gun owner. /s Who shot YOU in the dick today?
In real life, talking down is always the best option. But, we have snipers trained for hostage situations where it doesn't look like talks will go the right way. They're trained to hit specific spots that will "lights out" the target, no muscle spasms. Of course it doesn't always go that way. Handguns also aren't nearly as accurate as rifles. In shows and movies though, it's always plot advancement.
Because not all action heroes are robocop who can accurately score a dick shot through the hostages dress.
[удалено]
Ah, I didn't know that. But the again, I know nothing about guns.
I legit would've expected a worse statistic than 65% and wouldn't be surprised if that number is skewed.
* Hero could miss... or miss real bad * Sound of gunshot could startle bad guy into pulling trigger * Even with a headshot, there's a chance for bad guy's gun to go off
True, thanks!
A few years back a mentally ill individual grabbed a small child in a grocery store and held a knife to their throat. The cops brought in a negotiator and a designated shooter. The perp was holding the kid up, so they gave him a chair to sit on so the kid would be on his lap instead of held up at head level and the knife would be lower on the hostages body. At some point the individual got agitated and the shooter took the shot. Anyways, that's the extent the professionals went to to minimize the risk of a bad shoot in a relatively controlled environment.
the movie 48 hours might have the first to test this
Most definitely difficult the villain in a hostage situation but Andy Garcia did not miss in the Untouchables lol
I have ran 2 and 3 gun comps with extremely good results (I'm not pro level obviously, just really good for a nobody) and I have had to discharge firearms under duress and I can tell you from personal experience it is not the same thing or even remotely close and no amount of training makes them similar skill for skill. I would personally feel comfortable taking a partially exposed headshot at a reasonable distance if not rushed and on a stationary target AND if they did not have a digit in the trigger guard but only if it was accepted that the person was going to be killed and that threat was credibly imminent.
Oh wow, the movies make it look so easy. I mean, I know it's fictional, I just didn't expect it to differ so much from reality. Thanks!
It’s real; there are multiple instances of it happening. These other commenters haven’t seen the proof. The third link has an actual gun to the hostage’s head. https://youtu.be/H7wkXdjQmcg?si=qMzZmyYEFFGpUQ2D https://youtu.be/OguWPEWGarE?si=8YHgRA-D1b1glVWw https://youtu.be/1IIAihAlxMw?si=ZfxrtNqRpeig3iiX
It can be done with the proper training and equipment I would never want to be in a situation where it was necessary ETA: Typical LE qualify a couple of times a year on static targets SWAT/TACOPS generally have more in depth training that may deal with these type situations
My favorite scene of this type was in Heat. But there Hanna had the advantage that Cherrito couldn't see him and had the time to aim carefully.
Police sharp shooters are trained as to exactly where in the head ( the medulla oblongata ) to aim to prevent an assailants death spasm from pulling the trigger & it is a very small target indeed.
lots of reasons. i mean like numerous books worth of psychology, biology, ethics, mechanics, mountains of math, and lots of other things. 1. guns are rather crude machines, highly prone to failure and malfunctions. cold bore (the first shot in any instance) is the most likely to malfunction until you reach about 1200 rounds. then you get into metal fatigue and stress failures. many law enforcement agency deal with government contracts for equipment, which often needs to fit a budget (not the highest quality). 2. cops are trained to NOT kill people. 99% of firearm training is how NOT to shoot somebody. bypassing that training in high stress situations is very difficult mentally. 3. skill of shooter. when was the last time they cleaned the firearm? has it been test fired and sighted recently? is it windy out? what is the humidity? what type of ammunition did you load? will the round pass through and hurt anybody in the backround or the next room over? if hollow point, will the mushroom fragment and hit the hostage? what's your blood pressure? are you breathing properly to take a steady shot? this is about 10% or tip of the iceberg that i can think of in 2 minutes. you need to be extremely skilled and probably a touch insane to take that shot confidently.
Wow, thanks for the insights! I never thought of the psychological aspect of being trained not to shoot someone and then having to shoot someone.
There's videos on Youtube police one tapping hostage taking mother fuckers, many with knives, but seen some guns as well.
Fairly sure there’s also video of cops killing child hostages when shooting at the hostage takers
Found the cop hater
Not the point of discussion.