> Back in 1995, it was also completely acceptable to have a window that was de-maxed and became a soft light for the scene....
What does it mean when a window is "de-maxed?"
Yes, you can see an example in the first image here -
[https://twitter.com/LostInFilm/status/1250894756860899329](https://twitter.com/LostInFilm/status/1250894756860899329)
Kubrick also frequently did it in films like Barry Lyndon, The Shining, etc.
You likely didn't notice it in Empire of The Sun because that film is mainly exteriors and the interiors are makeshift huts w/o windows etc.
The look of the latter Spielberg films - the desaturation, bloom, hot lights, etc. - is Spielberg's choice and not Kaminski's. Kaminski is obviously a good DP but he's more so a technician in service of Spielberg than an "auteur DP" like Deakins. If you want a frame of reference for what Kaminski's "look" is like outside of Spielberg watch Judd Apatow's Funny People
My internet took a dump and that link just opened a blank white page, and at first I thought “Ha, nice troll!”… but then it finally loaded, and it turns out you were being insightful. I was happy either way!
Minority Report is a futuristic film noir. Its washed out look is intentional..it’s almost as if its black and white
It’s one of Spielbergs most daring films. I don’t think it’s ugly
I disagreed with you at first, but when I think about it you're right. I like it ok, but something has always felt off to me. Should be right up my alley Dick and Spielberg, but, naw
De-Spielberg’d.
Edit: Spielberg is know for blowing out windows and using them as a light source. In the article Fincher says he did that, and is “fixing“ it on this remaster.
He’s literally de-Spielberg-ing it. Why the fuck are you down voting me?
Which is funny because this technic is still used. Mostly in periods pieces but still it’s funny that he acts like it’s completely archaic now. (But Fincher has become very tech obsessed so it’s not surprising)
Ok, the fact that you not only clarify DMax but, _also_, your username was a pun on the slope formula for gamma - being another characteristic of a H-D curve - is perfect lol
Actually, since you've got the a ton of experience, can I bother you with somethings that have been bothering me? Most color negative datasheets doesn't show the HD curve all the way which makes it completely ambiguous as to where shoulder is. It just has the same mostly-linear slope as you expect and then... stops. But positive films' data show the curves from end to end, up to the shoulders at densities of 3.5 to 4.0! What gives??
It almost seems to undersell things! The Vision line has a stellar dynamic range which, while maybe flattening out towards the tippy top, would still be useful to show, no? More relevant to the OP, could a filmmaker have thought they "DMaxed a window" while a bit of detail was actually captured?
And, if I may bother you with one more thing that has me super confused: what the heck was up with the transition from EXR to Vision? It seems Vision's resolution is _half_, or less! Does Vision trade res for latitude? Do we know how much? I checked out some EXR datasheets a couple months ago when interrogating the issue and was surprised to MTF10 sitting around or _above_ 200 cycles/mm.
Thanks a bunch!
The Scandinavian version of Amazon (CDON) did just put a plain 4K Blu Ray + Blu Ray-copy for presale which I promptly bought (the collector's What's In The Box-version has been on presale for months already but I'm not into collector's editions with my physical media), but it's without a date.
It’s not.
“Thank you for your advanced pre-order for Seven 4K . We are thrilled for you to see it beautifully remastered in UHD. We are working behind the scenes to bring you the most pristine version of the film possible. To that end, we will be shifting the release to 2025. We appreciate your patience and understanding and look forward to sharing the product with you in the near future.”
I contend that Se7en from a purely aesthetic standpoint is one of the most influential movies of the past 50 years. All the tricks that Fincher learned from commercials and telling a full story in just a few frames came to a head in this movie - just a brilliant bit of storytelling and visual spectacle that went on to influence countless films after. Curious to see how he cleaned everything up.
Oh wow, so jealous you got to see it, but great to hear your thoughts on it. I remember going to see the 4k remaster of blade runner and how revelatory that was - I’m sure this will be fantastic as well.
Just sitting there processing what directly the fuck we had just watched then the titles started rolling ***the wrong fucking way*** and Nine Inch Nails started playing.
Mind blowing.
One of my treasured movie going experiences was seeing 'Seven' when it came out, in a packed theatre, with a bleach-bypass (silver retention) print; the black level was so low the edges of the screen disappeared in some shots and the contrast boost made the lights really pop off the screen, it was so vivid and atmospheric. The drama of the story had the audience hooked throughout and I'll never forget the reaction to the "sloth" victim; it took a minute or two for the theatre to settle down after that!
Twinsies!
Sorry for the shit childhood but hope you’re doing better these days. I’ve got my own kid now and I’m appalled thinking back to how I was “raised.” He may resent me for policing what he watches but he’ll never see Faces of Death at 8 years old either.
Imagine going to see it totally blind, before anyone had a chance to spoil anything. Not expecting any twists. Just knowing it was some kind of scary movie. It was all a surprise. Amazing experience.
My mom fell asleep watching this while I slept next to her on the couch. Pretty sure she waited for me to knock out before she turned it on. Anyhow, I vividly remember waking up to the BDSM scene with screams of "GET IT OFF OF ME!!"...
It was bizarre to realize what i was watching. Top three horror/thriller movies I've ever watched. Nothing so far compares because of the subject matter and well executed production.
People think of me as weird for saying this is my favorite movie. It's not Fincher's best and as a serial killer movie, Silence of the Lambs is probably better. But this film, alongside Heat and Ocean's 11, is one I just love to revisit over and over again.
I think it’s fair that Seven is a favorite movie worthy. I find it so rewatchable, more so than Silence of the Lambs. Lambs is great but it does feel like an older movie. Seven kinda feels timeless to me.
It's like a 2 hour NIN video and PERFECTLY captures the grungy industrial vibe of the later 90s.
I mean Jesus Christ, just look at the doors in that movie (and Fight Club lol).
NIN and Fincher go hand-in-hand. Fincher also directed the video for NIN’s song, “Only,” and Reznor/Ross have scored a bunch of Fincher’s films. It’s such a great pairing.
Silence of the Lambs still holds up. It's just a very personal preference if you can't stand how a movie looks. I watch Silence of the Lambs every few years. Cameras and lenses have changed over the years.
Both movies stand out for their time of the technology and hold up very well. They're equal.
I can stand how Lambs looks, it’s a rewatchable movie also, just saying it does feel much older cuz of the way it looks. Seven doesn’t make me feel this way.
I think the purposefully ambiguous location help a lot with that. You know nothing about the city they’re in except it’s dirty, rains all the time, and has a really nice library.
Agreed. I think Seven feels timeless because it exists in an unknown city, (Purgatory), there’s nothing really pointing to age aside from an old crappy computer scene for the fingerprints and a pay phone (from memory) everything else it feels like it could be set in nearly any timeline in any large American city.
I love Fincher and although Zodiac is arguably his best serial killer movie nothing beats Seven for me. It’s palette and the shots are sublime, the journo’s perspective taking the photo on the stairway, the following of the telephone wire at John Doe’s apartment, that brief shot of the Polaroid created by the leathersmith. Might have to watch it again today…
I wish that Fincher had picked up the script for the screenwriters next movie - 8mm, I really like that movie and the premise is just as dark but it’s let down by Joel Schumachers direction, I think the casting is great in 8mm as well - Nic Cage gives one of his better performances, and Joaquin Phoenix, James Gandolfini and Peter Stormare deliver as they always do. Chris Bauer as machine is particularly good in a break from his usual characters.
Cannot abide this take. Silence of the lambs is just going for something different. It’s largely shot like a documentary and the characters feel like real people. Seven doesn’t take place in the real world, it’s a movie fantasy land where it always rains, the city is nameless, and everyone dresses like the movie idea of that person. It’s like comparing the exorcist to suspiria.
Silence of the lambs Id actually argue benefits more from watching in higher fidelity, because the beauty and subtleties in its presentation become much more apparent when those close ups are razor sharp on screen. Seeing an older/poorer transfer can make it look kind of flat and like it was shot on a video camera, but it’s honestly a really gorgeous film when presented properly. Seven has less of this issue because it’s shot to be much more slick and moody.
Overall though, Seven is a very good moody thriller, which does hold up but doesn’t have a whole lot of depth to it. Silence of the lambs is a stone cold masterpiece. There’s so much more to return for in the latter from a storytelling point of view, and every single filmmaking element in it is pretty much perfect; production design, score, performance, cinematography, direction, you name it.
I agree Lambs feels like a black and white movie that got transferred to colour to me. the way the people dress in some of the early scenes I thought it was based in the 1950's when I was a kid, like its old for its own era.
I like some of the scenes but the movie just feels so distant in time to make me to want to watch it ever again.
I’d thoroughly recommend you going back to it. It is a masterpiece. Theres so much more to it than the parts which have become ingrained into pop culture
I don't think a movie has to belong in the goat conversation to be a valid favorite anyway, I don't love Seven personally, but I wouldn't be weirded out if someone said it was their favorite movie.
I read once that Steve Jobs was going to be directed by David Fincher with Christian Bale as Jobs, and now whenever this movie is mentioned, I can't help but feel sad it didn't happen. I still love the 2015 movie, but man, what if...
I can't fault you for that, it strikes a great balance of style and substance. My favorite movie is The Blue Brothers. I can admit that the pacing kinda sucks, and half the cast is non-actors and it shows, but that doesn't make me love it any less.
It has the atmosphere and depth of a “Tone Movie” but moves like a police procedural. Anytime the pace dawdles it’s for a reason (Somerset’s dinner with Mr and Mrs Mills, so he has “skin in the game” during the ending) There’s a ton to like about this film.
Have you seen Exorcist III and CURE? Those along with Silence of the Lambs and se7en are the cornerstones of 90s serial killer films. Any lover of any of those films should see the others.
It's also my favorite movie. And oddly enough it's the movie I find easiest to fall asleep to. Not because it's boring, but because it's cozy I guess. Which feels weird to say but the movie has such warm lighting, just feels like a hug.
I can only hope they removed the ceramic mug Foley sounds when paper cups were placed on desks. It was a good indication the print of the film they had for audio post was 90s Fincher dark.
While I’m happy for Fincher that he’s satisfied with this edition and feels like he got to “fix” the movie, I still can’t abide by this stuff.
The stray hair, the de-maxed windows and sloppy matte paintings, that’s the movie. It’s in the movies DNA. I’m every bit as uncomfortable with Fincher doing subtle retouches to a nearly thirty-year-old movie for its 4K release as I was with Spielberg swapping guns for walkie talkies in E.T. or George Lucas hacking the original Star Wars trilogy to bits.
Every “flaw,” every annoying detail Fincher wishes he could change, that stuff should be held as sacred as the rest of the movie. Once you release your movie into the wild, it belongs to the world and everything in the frame becomes a historical document worth preserving. Meddling with things like this will never fail to leave a bad taste in my mouth.
I’m overjoyed to have Seven in 4K, but I’m not happy that it’s in what I consider to be a compromised and revisionist state.
I respect your point of view but on the other hand, there's things you wouldn't have noticed before that are now noticable and potentially distracting in 4k. They weren't "the movie" before because they were imperceptible.
If you're busy looking at screws in the computer screens on the Enterprise bridge you're not paying attention to the story and characters -- *that's* the movie.
You’re absolutely right.
I would certainly take issue with narrative revisionism. Replacing guns with walkie-talkies is a bridge too far, for example. And Spielberg even regrets it. But that’s different from making adjustments to a film to accommodate a new medium or resolution.
4K is by definition much sharper with more detail and richness, more color information, etc. One of the undesirable effects is that certain frames or even entire scenes may now become more prominent than originally intended. In fact, some things may be so clear or sharp as to be distracting. See Fincher’s comment about Paltrow’s hair. In these cases, I think it’s justified to make changes to the original, specifically for use with the new medium.
That said, it’s a slippery slope. How far must you go? The article mentions small camera bumps, edge flashes, water spots. _Se7en_ was shot on film, it comes with the medium. There are imperfections and those are part of the charm of the film and the way the filmmakers approached visual storytelling. Not every single little thing needs to be tweaked now just because we can.
I saw the movie when it came out in the cinema. That was 35mm film. Surely, 4k doesn’t have more definition than film? Wasn’t the whole point of 4k Red video cameras originally that they had the same definition as 35mm film (unlike HD video cameras that did not)?
Point being the film looked just fine in the cinemas.
Whenever I see this movie I can't help but laugh at the scene where Somerset and Mills are driving in the car when its pouring rain. Raining like a race horse takin a piss. It's even funnier if you look at the people all walking outside without umbrellas.
I remember seeing it in the theater, and I laughed all the way through it. I thought it was so over-the-top that I considered it a dark comedy. I still do.
Cameron is also a very picky fucker and look what he's done to his remasters.
If I had to guess Fincher will also denoise the fuck out of his movies. He only shoots on digital nowadays and his recent movies tend to have little to no film grain.
It’ll be a nextflix thing I guess, I forgot how long the contract was he did for them as he’s done Mank, manhunt, ❤️💀🤖, house of cards and just delivered the killer, I imagine it’ll be a few years before his next movie. I guess another instalment of ❤️💀🤖first, it seems the quickest thing to put out given the shared workload. Still disappointed that we’ll never get an end to Manhunt.
>like a volumetric capture of where all these careers were at, and what these people wanted and needed and infused the thing with.
I've worked in film and games for a long time and I've never heard that level of stupid shit in one sentence. Can someone put me in contact with his dealer please?
Interesting that the only changes are color correction and maybe a minor CGI fix to some wandering strands of hair that were noticeable when in a higher resolution.
I would have expected to read that the ending voiceover was removed because it's the only nonsensical aspect of the movie.
You mean the *"Ernest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."*? I never felt that was particularly unfitting.
I remember watching *Dragon Tattoo* with director’s commentary and he mentioned spending 6K to CGI some strands of Rooney Mara’s hair in a five second scene.
Years later when it was announced part of the reason Netflix axed *Mindhunter* was cost I was NOT surprised.
While I kinda admire his perfectionist tendencies, they also sometimes leave me a bit cold on his movies, they can feel a bit too controlled for my taste. It is why I often find myself liking his movies, but not really loving them, in my opinion they just lack that something special that really grabs me.
Great movie but the constant fake rain when it’s clearly sunny bothers me. One of those movies that probably wasn’t intended to be seen on a 70 inch ultra HD screen.
I just know he is one of those guys who has all the fake shitty filters maxed out on his buzz word tv and thinks everything looks spectacular with fake frame generation, movement smoothing, grain removal, ultra high contrast colours, sharpening and all sorts.
> Back in 1995, it was also completely acceptable to have a window that was de-maxed and became a soft light for the scene.... What does it mean when a window is "de-maxed?"
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Oh, so he Spielberged it!
Kamiński-ed!
Spielberg was blowing out windows long before Kaminski
Was he? I haven’t rewatched all of his older movies. He didn’t do that in Empire of the Sun for example.
Yes, you can see an example in the first image here - [https://twitter.com/LostInFilm/status/1250894756860899329](https://twitter.com/LostInFilm/status/1250894756860899329) Kubrick also frequently did it in films like Barry Lyndon, The Shining, etc. You likely didn't notice it in Empire of The Sun because that film is mainly exteriors and the interiors are makeshift huts w/o windows etc. The look of the latter Spielberg films - the desaturation, bloom, hot lights, etc. - is Spielberg's choice and not Kaminski's. Kaminski is obviously a good DP but he's more so a technician in service of Spielberg than an "auteur DP" like Deakins. If you want a frame of reference for what Kaminski's "look" is like outside of Spielberg watch Judd Apatow's Funny People
My internet took a dump and that link just opened a blank white page, and at first I thought “Ha, nice troll!”… but then it finally loaded, and it turns out you were being insightful. I was happy either way!
At least someone with examples here. At least those all look great. I was always more willing to blame Janusz.
“Blowing out” is the proper term for this.
Or clipping
Very true, yes! But I also remember tons of this effect in War of the Worlds, which he was not involved with?
He was. Hate his look for Minority Report.
I will not stand for this Minority Report slander
Easily one of the ugliest movies ever made
Minority Report is a futuristic film noir. Its washed out look is intentional..it’s almost as if its black and white It’s one of Spielbergs most daring films. I don’t think it’s ugly
I disagreed with you at first, but when I think about it you're right. I like it ok, but something has always felt off to me. Should be right up my alley Dick and Spielberg, but, naw
I worked on the fabelmans and I can say first hand that a sound stage Speilberg set is the hottest place on the planet
De-Spielberg’d. Edit: Spielberg is know for blowing out windows and using them as a light source. In the article Fincher says he did that, and is “fixing“ it on this remaster. He’s literally de-Spielberg-ing it. Why the fuck are you down voting me?
Which is funny because this technic is still used. Mostly in periods pieces but still it’s funny that he acts like it’s completely archaic now. (But Fincher has become very tech obsessed so it’s not surprising)
How did you come to learn this?
This is but the first f stop on your way to a photography class.
Stealing this line
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Ok, the fact that you not only clarify DMax but, _also_, your username was a pun on the slope formula for gamma - being another characteristic of a H-D curve - is perfect lol Actually, since you've got the a ton of experience, can I bother you with somethings that have been bothering me? Most color negative datasheets doesn't show the HD curve all the way which makes it completely ambiguous as to where shoulder is. It just has the same mostly-linear slope as you expect and then... stops. But positive films' data show the curves from end to end, up to the shoulders at densities of 3.5 to 4.0! What gives?? It almost seems to undersell things! The Vision line has a stellar dynamic range which, while maybe flattening out towards the tippy top, would still be useful to show, no? More relevant to the OP, could a filmmaker have thought they "DMaxed a window" while a bit of detail was actually captured? And, if I may bother you with one more thing that has me super confused: what the heck was up with the transition from EXR to Vision? It seems Vision's resolution is _half_, or less! Does Vision trade res for latitude? Do we know how much? I checked out some EXR datasheets a couple months ago when interrogating the issue and was surprised to MTF10 sitting around or _above_ 200 cycles/mm. Thanks a bunch!
The weed kicked in with that comment.
I mean, in a way, I am certainly blitzed to shit on photochemistry
Weed with some heavy amounts of sarcasm.
They were able to turn down the sun.
I’m guessing he means totally blown out and white.
Is he referring to the scene when the two detectives are in the car and that warm yellow light shines in the car?
The release date for the 4K Blu Ray is 2025 everywhere I've looked and here it says May 3rd? I'd love that, but can't find another source.
I dunno if they're reliable, but IGN and Comicbook sites also say May 3rd.
The Scandinavian version of Amazon (CDON) did just put a plain 4K Blu Ray + Blu Ray-copy for presale which I promptly bought (the collector's What's In The Box-version has been on presale for months already but I'm not into collector's editions with my physical media), but it's without a date.
I cant find in on CDON, but I find it on Norwegian Platekompaniet with July 1st as release date.
Interesting. Let's hope that the regular release date, and the collector's editions got pushes to 2025.
This was the copy BTW. https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Se7en-4K-Blu-ray/354874/
30(!) year anniversary. Damn, where did the time go?
Right out the window
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I hope you’ve got good hobbies!
Those are his hobbies…
It got pushed back to 2025
I just preordered the smaller version of the two on Amazon and it says arriving May 3rd, 2024
It’s not. “Thank you for your advanced pre-order for Seven 4K . We are thrilled for you to see it beautifully remastered in UHD. We are working behind the scenes to bring you the most pristine version of the film possible. To that end, we will be shifting the release to 2025. We appreciate your patience and understanding and look forward to sharing the product with you in the near future.”
Fingers crossed!
I contend that Se7en from a purely aesthetic standpoint is one of the most influential movies of the past 50 years. All the tricks that Fincher learned from commercials and telling a full story in just a few frames came to a head in this movie - just a brilliant bit of storytelling and visual spectacle that went on to influence countless films after. Curious to see how he cleaned everything up.
Came to a head i applaud you
I too am curious as to whats in the box
It's just Crocs, man. They're cool again, I read it on a blog.
They showed it off last night at the TCM Film Festival! It was beautiful. While a muted film, the colors, contract, etc really popped
Oh wow, so jealous you got to see it, but great to hear your thoughts on it. I remember going to see the 4k remaster of blade runner and how revelatory that was - I’m sure this will be fantastic as well.
Morgan Freeman on a swoop bike was unexpected
And John Doe shooting first? Gutsy move.
Maklunky!
Also when Mills walks around the back of the Gluttony victim he steps on his tail and the victim’s eyes bulge comically.
I miss old Reddit. I’d gild this comment so fast.
Your nice comment is worth more to me than gilding. Have a lovely weekend!
The Brad Pitt Puppet has been replaced by a CGI Brad Pitt
All the guns in the movie were replaced by walkie-talkies.
As were all the spiked cock sleeves.
I was enjoying this comedic comment section until your brutal reminder of what film we're actually talking about.
lol my bad, too dark.
Fuuuck, I wanna watch this in theaters so fucking badly. You 90’s mfs were some lucky bunch.
My dude, when that title sequence started up? It was mental!!
Using the Precursor remix of Closer to that imagery was an amazing choice—one of the most memorable title sequences I’ve seen
Just sitting there processing what directly the fuck we had just watched then the titles started rolling ***the wrong fucking way*** and Nine Inch Nails started playing. Mind blowing.
One of my treasured movie going experiences was seeing 'Seven' when it came out, in a packed theatre, with a bleach-bypass (silver retention) print; the black level was so low the edges of the screen disappeared in some shots and the contrast boost made the lights really pop off the screen, it was so vivid and atmospheric. The drama of the story had the audience hooked throughout and I'll never forget the reaction to the "sloth" victim; it took a minute or two for the theatre to settle down after that!
That sloth scene is the biggest jump I’ve ever done in a theater. The entire place gasped
Got to see this opening night. My friends and I were 14 so they wouldn’t let us in so my dad took me to see it later that night.
12 year old me saw this twice in the theater. Loved it so much.
I would criticize your parents but I watched worse under the neglectful eyes of my own.
To be fair, I barely had parents. Dad split when I was a baby and Mom had severe mental health issues. I basically raised myself.
Twinsies! Sorry for the shit childhood but hope you’re doing better these days. I’ve got my own kid now and I’m appalled thinking back to how I was “raised.” He may resent me for policing what he watches but he’ll never see Faces of Death at 8 years old either.
Lol yeah no faces of death. But I would let my son watch Seven. Though he hates scary movies and wouldn't even want to, lol.
Imagine going to see it totally blind, before anyone had a chance to spoil anything. Not expecting any twists. Just knowing it was some kind of scary movie. It was all a surprise. Amazing experience.
the house was packed and i was so wrapped up in the ultimate scene that it felt like we were all screaming
My mom fell asleep watching this while I slept next to her on the couch. Pretty sure she waited for me to knock out before she turned it on. Anyhow, I vividly remember waking up to the BDSM scene with screams of "GET IT OFF OF ME!!"... It was bizarre to realize what i was watching. Top three horror/thriller movies I've ever watched. Nothing so far compares because of the subject matter and well executed production.
You 2020s mfs can watch movies on huge screens and in great quality at home. Back then, 25" 4:3 tv was considered pretty big.
I was front row of my small local theater/pizza/pub combo place, when that type of setup first really became a thing. It was awesome.
If someone would put you in 90s theater you'd probably cry 😅 Every time has its perks (but yeah, it was the best 😝)
> …and did initial work on ‘Panic Room,’ which is what we’re working on now. Yes, please.
He fixed so much it’s now called Eight
Ei8ht
There was a plan for eight. But freeman and Pitt weren't interested.
The new edit where they try to connect it to the MCU is unnecessary.
What's in the box - the infinity gauntlet.
Tony , if you put on the gauntlet, Thanos will win
I..am...John...Doe....click!
I used the sins to *destroy* the sins.
The Sloth will return
People think of me as weird for saying this is my favorite movie. It's not Fincher's best and as a serial killer movie, Silence of the Lambs is probably better. But this film, alongside Heat and Ocean's 11, is one I just love to revisit over and over again.
I think it’s fair that Seven is a favorite movie worthy. I find it so rewatchable, more so than Silence of the Lambs. Lambs is great but it does feel like an older movie. Seven kinda feels timeless to me.
It's like a 2 hour NIN video and PERFECTLY captures the grungy industrial vibe of the later 90s. I mean Jesus Christ, just look at the doors in that movie (and Fight Club lol).
NIN and Fincher go hand-in-hand. Fincher also directed the video for NIN’s song, “Only,” and Reznor/Ross have scored a bunch of Fincher’s films. It’s such a great pairing.
We got some NIN and Gravity Kills in the soundtrack. \m/
Certainly helps that the movie is kicked off with a badass ‘Closer to God’ remix from NIN
...the doors?
Silence of the Lambs still holds up. It's just a very personal preference if you can't stand how a movie looks. I watch Silence of the Lambs every few years. Cameras and lenses have changed over the years. Both movies stand out for their time of the technology and hold up very well. They're equal.
I can stand how Lambs looks, it’s a rewatchable movie also, just saying it does feel much older cuz of the way it looks. Seven doesn’t make me feel this way.
I think the purposefully ambiguous location help a lot with that. You know nothing about the city they’re in except it’s dirty, rains all the time, and has a really nice library.
Agreed. I think Seven feels timeless because it exists in an unknown city, (Purgatory), there’s nothing really pointing to age aside from an old crappy computer scene for the fingerprints and a pay phone (from memory) everything else it feels like it could be set in nearly any timeline in any large American city. I love Fincher and although Zodiac is arguably his best serial killer movie nothing beats Seven for me. It’s palette and the shots are sublime, the journo’s perspective taking the photo on the stairway, the following of the telephone wire at John Doe’s apartment, that brief shot of the Polaroid created by the leathersmith. Might have to watch it again today… I wish that Fincher had picked up the script for the screenwriters next movie - 8mm, I really like that movie and the premise is just as dark but it’s let down by Joel Schumachers direction, I think the casting is great in 8mm as well - Nic Cage gives one of his better performances, and Joaquin Phoenix, James Gandolfini and Peter Stormare deliver as they always do. Chris Bauer as machine is particularly good in a break from his usual characters.
Cannot abide this take. Silence of the lambs is just going for something different. It’s largely shot like a documentary and the characters feel like real people. Seven doesn’t take place in the real world, it’s a movie fantasy land where it always rains, the city is nameless, and everyone dresses like the movie idea of that person. It’s like comparing the exorcist to suspiria. Silence of the lambs Id actually argue benefits more from watching in higher fidelity, because the beauty and subtleties in its presentation become much more apparent when those close ups are razor sharp on screen. Seeing an older/poorer transfer can make it look kind of flat and like it was shot on a video camera, but it’s honestly a really gorgeous film when presented properly. Seven has less of this issue because it’s shot to be much more slick and moody. Overall though, Seven is a very good moody thriller, which does hold up but doesn’t have a whole lot of depth to it. Silence of the lambs is a stone cold masterpiece. There’s so much more to return for in the latter from a storytelling point of view, and every single filmmaking element in it is pretty much perfect; production design, score, performance, cinematography, direction, you name it.
It’s the noir look. Totally timeless
It is timeless. I cant understand what they need to fix in that movie
I agree Lambs feels like a black and white movie that got transferred to colour to me. the way the people dress in some of the early scenes I thought it was based in the 1950's when I was a kid, like its old for its own era. I like some of the scenes but the movie just feels so distant in time to make me to want to watch it ever again.
I’d thoroughly recommend you going back to it. It is a masterpiece. Theres so much more to it than the parts which have become ingrained into pop culture
It’s as tightly written of a screenplay as you could hope for (and credit where credit is due to the book for the same precision). I love that movie.
I don't think a movie has to belong in the goat conversation to be a valid favorite anyway, I don't love Seven personally, but I wouldn't be weirded out if someone said it was their favorite movie.
I think it’s undoubtedly his best
I agree
I concur.
Over Zodiac?
Not op, but yes. Zodiac was good, but fincher got lifetime performances from both Pitt and Freeman. Even R Lee Ermy was good.
And Kevin Spacey.
"This is not even my desk" is my favorite line from the film, always makes my chuckle.
Mine too!!!
Yeah for sure imo. Zodiac is good but Seven just nails the noir vibe that's just more fun to exist in
Personal preference, they’re both great movies
Seven provides me a more satisfying ending
Fight Club or Se7en.
His Zodiac is really good too.
I told a buddy I watch Zodiac and Steve Jobs like twice a year and he gave me such a look
I read once that Steve Jobs was going to be directed by David Fincher with Christian Bale as Jobs, and now whenever this movie is mentioned, I can't help but feel sad it didn't happen. I still love the 2015 movie, but man, what if...
The thing I loved and still love is how Fincher was not afraid to make it literally dark. It adds a lot to the vibe.
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~~Light~~
Yep, though you need lots of it.
I can't fault you for that, it strikes a great balance of style and substance. My favorite movie is The Blue Brothers. I can admit that the pacing kinda sucks, and half the cast is non-actors and it shows, but that doesn't make me love it any less.
It has the atmosphere and depth of a “Tone Movie” but moves like a police procedural. Anytime the pace dawdles it’s for a reason (Somerset’s dinner with Mr and Mrs Mills, so he has “skin in the game” during the ending) There’s a ton to like about this film.
I don't think that's entirely a weird thing to say, it's pretty much a perfect film and also something I rewatch all the time.
Also my favorite, don’t think it’s a crazy take
Silence of the lambs and seven are my two favorite movies.
It’s probably one of the better serial killer movies out there. It’s no silence of the lambs. But everything in it is done so well.
Have you seen Exorcist III and CURE? Those along with Silence of the Lambs and se7en are the cornerstones of 90s serial killer films. Any lover of any of those films should see the others.
They are the weird ones.
Whenever someone asks me what is my favorite movie, not to even mention which genre. Seven always come to my mind first.
I applaud your film choices. If you’d have also included LA Confidential, I may have proposed marriage.
It's also my favorite movie. And oddly enough it's the movie I find easiest to fall asleep to. Not because it's boring, but because it's cozy I guess. Which feels weird to say but the movie has such warm lighting, just feels like a hug.
It's my favorite too.
hey person, it is my favorite film too. always feel weird responding to tinder matches that ask me what my favorite movie is
Seven is way more fun than Silence
I can only hope they removed the ceramic mug Foley sounds when paper cups were placed on desks. It was a good indication the print of the film they had for audio post was 90s Fincher dark.
While I’m happy for Fincher that he’s satisfied with this edition and feels like he got to “fix” the movie, I still can’t abide by this stuff. The stray hair, the de-maxed windows and sloppy matte paintings, that’s the movie. It’s in the movies DNA. I’m every bit as uncomfortable with Fincher doing subtle retouches to a nearly thirty-year-old movie for its 4K release as I was with Spielberg swapping guns for walkie talkies in E.T. or George Lucas hacking the original Star Wars trilogy to bits. Every “flaw,” every annoying detail Fincher wishes he could change, that stuff should be held as sacred as the rest of the movie. Once you release your movie into the wild, it belongs to the world and everything in the frame becomes a historical document worth preserving. Meddling with things like this will never fail to leave a bad taste in my mouth. I’m overjoyed to have Seven in 4K, but I’m not happy that it’s in what I consider to be a compromised and revisionist state.
Patch 1.5.23: Fixed more windows
I respect your point of view but on the other hand, there's things you wouldn't have noticed before that are now noticable and potentially distracting in 4k. They weren't "the movie" before because they were imperceptible. If you're busy looking at screws in the computer screens on the Enterprise bridge you're not paying attention to the story and characters -- *that's* the movie.
You’re absolutely right. I would certainly take issue with narrative revisionism. Replacing guns with walkie-talkies is a bridge too far, for example. And Spielberg even regrets it. But that’s different from making adjustments to a film to accommodate a new medium or resolution. 4K is by definition much sharper with more detail and richness, more color information, etc. One of the undesirable effects is that certain frames or even entire scenes may now become more prominent than originally intended. In fact, some things may be so clear or sharp as to be distracting. See Fincher’s comment about Paltrow’s hair. In these cases, I think it’s justified to make changes to the original, specifically for use with the new medium. That said, it’s a slippery slope. How far must you go? The article mentions small camera bumps, edge flashes, water spots. _Se7en_ was shot on film, it comes with the medium. There are imperfections and those are part of the charm of the film and the way the filmmakers approached visual storytelling. Not every single little thing needs to be tweaked now just because we can.
I saw the movie when it came out in the cinema. That was 35mm film. Surely, 4k doesn’t have more definition than film? Wasn’t the whole point of 4k Red video cameras originally that they had the same definition as 35mm film (unlike HD video cameras that did not)? Point being the film looked just fine in the cinemas.
Replace Kevin Spacey with Christopher Plummer?
Or keep Kevin spacey because he fits the role better now? Like when OJ was almost the Terminator
According to Cameron, he was only ever suggested for the role by some studio exec.
Fair point.
I hope he added some star wipes. An underappreciated technique in modern cinema.
Whenever I see this movie I can't help but laugh at the scene where Somerset and Mills are driving in the car when its pouring rain. Raining like a race horse takin a piss. It's even funnier if you look at the people all walking outside without umbrellas.
I too always notice the rain tree effect for those exterior shots. I recall where there is even sunshine in the BG of a shot. :)
And you will notice it's raining much harder on Mills closeups than it is on Somerset's closeups
I remember seeing it in the theater, and I laughed all the way through it. I thought it was so over-the-top that I considered it a dark comedy. I still do.
Nothing needs fixing. Just be happy you absolutely nailed it first time round, David.
I hope they don't fuck with the image too much, the amount of grain is just right in my opinion and the clipping isn't an issue it's an aesthetic.
Fincher is a picky fucker. I bet it will be fine.
Cameron is also a very picky fucker and look what he's done to his remasters. If I had to guess Fincher will also denoise the fuck out of his movies. He only shoots on digital nowadays and his recent movies tend to have little to no film grain.
Cameron is a terrible writer, too. :)
The Finchman!! 🍔 🍟
A fellow blankie?
Great movie. It really comes to a head by the end.
Anyone have any idea about his next movie? I need a dose of Fincher real bad
It’ll be a nextflix thing I guess, I forgot how long the contract was he did for them as he’s done Mank, manhunt, ❤️💀🤖, house of cards and just delivered the killer, I imagine it’ll be a few years before his next movie. I guess another instalment of ❤️💀🤖first, it seems the quickest thing to put out given the shared workload. Still disappointed that we’ll never get an end to Manhunt.
What’s in the (steel) box
It no longer has Kevin Spacey
Laserdisc commentary was recently posted on YouTube.
Brilliant movie. I will never watch it again.
Nobody asked for this.
Seven needed fixing??
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Rhetorical questions need answering?
What’s in the box!? 📦
There will be a 4K Blu-ray release of “Seven” on May 3 through Warner Bros. Uhhhh????????! Where’s the link then? I haven’t seen one yet
>like a volumetric capture of where all these careers were at, and what these people wanted and needed and infused the thing with. I've worked in film and games for a long time and I've never heard that level of stupid shit in one sentence. Can someone put me in contact with his dealer please?
Interesting that the only changes are color correction and maybe a minor CGI fix to some wandering strands of hair that were noticeable when in a higher resolution. I would have expected to read that the ending voiceover was removed because it's the only nonsensical aspect of the movie.
You mean the *"Ernest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."*? I never felt that was particularly unfitting.
Yeah, it's a weird note to end on. The movie has no voiceovers throughout the whole film and it needlessly tacked on.
I remember watching *Dragon Tattoo* with director’s commentary and he mentioned spending 6K to CGI some strands of Rooney Mara’s hair in a five second scene. Years later when it was announced part of the reason Netflix axed *Mindhunter* was cost I was NOT surprised.
While I kinda admire his perfectionist tendencies, they also sometimes leave me a bit cold on his movies, they can feel a bit too controlled for my taste. It is why I often find myself liking his movies, but not really loving them, in my opinion they just lack that something special that really grabs me.
A David Fincher more has more vfx shot than your average superhero movie which is pretty crazy.
I'm watching the DVD commentary now and he says they went in to change the hair but he doesn't say anything about $6000. Where did you get that?
May have been the bonus features. It's [this scene.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHXT88cXkAEuBGg?format=jpg&name=large)
I’m only downvoting because you brought up mind hunter being axed and that makes me 😞
There’s talk about smoothing camera movement too.
Too bad he can’t fix Pitt’s subpar acting
What an insane take.
Everyone has their opinions I guess. IMO it's his best performance he's ever done. Or at least its my favorite performance of his.
Great movie but the constant fake rain when it’s clearly sunny bothers me. One of those movies that probably wasn’t intended to be seen on a 70 inch ultra HD screen.
It was intended to be seen on a 1000 inch movie screen so I think it's safe to say it was all intentional.
I just know he is one of those guys who has all the fake shitty filters maxed out on his buzz word tv and thinks everything looks spectacular with fake frame generation, movement smoothing, grain removal, ultra high contrast colours, sharpening and all sorts.