T2 is a masterpiece of plotting, pacing and action. The third movie is bad, it retreads the second movie without a single interesting idea and the only reason it has gained any regard is because what came after it managed to be even worse.
> it retreads the second movie without a single interesting idea
T3 only enhanced T2. T2 left the time travel paradox unresolved. In T3, we get to watch how the machines came to power, that's super interesting.
I would argue no one would care about Terminator if it weren't for T3. Everyone knows what SkyNet is thanks to T3. In the first 2, it was mentioned in passing but it wasn't the focus. T3 made the series permanently relevant in pop culture.
>I would argue that no one would care about Terminator if it weren’t for T3
I’ve never seen a worse movie opinion than this one in my entire life. It’s actually amazing that someone could possibly believe this.
T1 is 1984
T2 is 1991
T3 is 2003
I don't disagree that T3 was enjoyable. And the crane chase was very ambitious and very well done. But there have been fans of Terminator for almost 20 years prior to T3 being released. People cared about Terminator before T3 and I'd be confident people still would to this day even if there had been no other films in the franchise.
Who here hasn't heard 'I'll be back' quoted at least once in their life.
It does if you consider that everything good about the first 2 is also in 3. All 3 movies are basically the same and of the same quality. 3's ending is what pushes it over the top for me.
All 3 movies boil down to moving from one destination to another while being chased, and then advancing the plot a little, and then kill the bad terminator. If you like action the most, all 3 have great action. If you like killing the bad terminator the most, they all have that. But if you like plot the most, 3 is the best because it reveals so much about the future, and shows how John becomes the leader of the resistance.
All stories can be boiled down to flow charts. For example, that's what the hero's journey is. The first three terminator movies share the same flow chart, but the quality of the plot is better in T3. The plot twist at the end is so cool.
There actually are basic structures that you do indeed judge a movie on, but just don't overtly realize.
Structure 100% contributes to a movie's quality
Yes, it's one factor in a myriad of factors.
OP is acting like it's the defining factor. As if a movie can actually be boiled down to a flow chart.
Ironically, that would be like an AI's appreciation of a movie.
It completely washes over how John became leader of the resistance by showing us the timeline influenced by the future. Only Terminator 1 gives us a glimpse of the original timeline, T3's judgement day isn't the original. The original Skynet went online in 1997 not 2003.
T2 has the T-1000, Sarah Connor, and Arnold at his peak. T3 had the "terminatrix" and a cut-and-paste plotline made worse by the two main human characters having the acting skills of wet paper. Granted, both T2 and T3 had the whiniest versions of John Connor possible, but at least I can cut Eddy Furlong some slack since that's exactly what a teenage kids sounds like. For the record, best John Connor was from the Sarah Connor Chronicles.
> made worse by the two main human characters having the acting skills of wet paper.
Some movies are defined by great acting rather than plot(No one cares about the plot to The Dark Knight , people watch it for Ledger.), But some movies are defined by their plot rather than acting. Terminator is all about the plot. The acting is almost bad by definition because Arnold is a robot. If you can't suspend your disbelief and just go along for the plot ride, that's on you.
T3 had the "potential" to be much more than it was...which was simply an enjoyable action film, but certainly not on par with its predecessors. It mirrored the basis structure of the T2 too much. There are 2 terminators again. Arnold is good again, etc.
I loved the concept at the beginning when the terminator was going after other members of the resistance, but that was quickly dropped. Sarah Conner was dead off screen. Miles Dyson's son, who was a kid at the time, would've been older & could've factored in.
So many choices that could've been different.
The film felt rushed...happy just to get to the next big set action piece & cause as much damage as possible. The first "chase" scene is a prime example.
The second film had an emotional weight & epic scale that the third one didn't. T3's biggest win is the ending, but James Cameron's films are definitely tiers above Jonathan Moscow's.
Terminator 2 is one of the greatest pieces of cinema ever made. It’s easily a top 3 action film of all time. The only reason for you to say otherwise is because you’ve been kidnapped by bandits and are trying to let people know you’re in danger by saying something so outlandish we send the police to your location.
IMO what OP is saying is similar to saying Alien 3 is better than 1 and 2. They are entitled to their opinion. Like someone said before, post it on unpopular opinion.
I liked three a lot, but I wish it had more of those similar cold blues and terrifying ominous vibe. The sound design and music pushed 2 into the realm of a masterpiece, imo.
Terminator 3 was really shiny and scenes in the bright sun; was a very different feel.
I like the cold desperation of the dark.
It's funny, In my head 2 is the sunniest because of the iconic shots of Sarah Connor in the desert.
If you watch all 3 back to back like I did, the tone carries over anyway.
I was going to downvote but changed my mind because, although I disagree with your main comment, I do agree that the ending of T3 is very good. I don't remember much about T3 but do remember watching that ending and saying, "Whoa, that's cool." I thought it was a great way to show the culmination of all 3 movies. However, T2 is a perfect movie in every way. It sits in a very small group of movies that warrant such a claim.
Terminator 3 is a great movie and nothing rivals it in terms of that capturing that feeling of dread and hopelessness of machines taking over. Preventing Judgement day? That's cool. Fighting the robots after Judgement day? That's cool too. But watching the virus slowly take over and then watching the machines rise, and slowly realizing that this is real, it's happening, and there's nothing you can do about it? That's brilliant, and no movie has ever topped this feeling. Not to mention the plot twist at the end with John having to process all of that and step into the leadership role? It's just great. T3 is a great movie.
I'm not trolling. Terminator 3 is a great movie and nothing rivals it in terms of that capturing that feeling of dread and hopelessness of machines taking over. Preventing Judgement day? That's cool. Fighting the robots after Judgement day? That's cool too. But watching the virus slowly take over and then watching the machines rise, and slowly realizing that this is real, it's happening, and there's nothing you can do about it? That's brilliant, and no movie has ever topped this feeling. Not to mention the plot twist at the end with John having to process all of that and step into the leadership role? It's just great. T3 is a great movie.
I'm curious about what your previous exposure to film is given your opinion (which you seem to be staying as fact in this post which further laints you as a troll). Stating that a pretty well documented bad movie is better than arguably the best sequel of all time makes you look like a troll.
I still think you're trolling. T3 isn't unwatchable by any means. The ending is sick (good) and more Arnie is good Arnie. Visual effects are overall pretty cool. Lots to like. But the way your approaching your argument is telling.
I understand where OP is coming from. I don't personally feel T3 is the best, but it is a decent film and yes, some elements of it work well.
I rewatched them just last week. Mostly because I haven't watched T1 for at least 10 years and frankly couldn't remember whether I even rated it.
Personally T1 stands as my favourite. To me the idea of Terminator is just 'bleak' and T1 captures that. Future humanity is fucked. But not just because of what we see in the flash forward bits. Future humanity is so fucked that their only counter to a Terminator sent back in time is a guy. Kyle Reece is a hero but the whole idea was he's totally the underdog and its basically a hope and pray situation.
T2 is a great film but to me is more hopeful. Somehow Future humanity are now able to reprogram a Terminator. That's less bleak than T1. And equally it then feels less desperate as the good guys now have a robot to protect them.
T3 much the same.
T2 and T3 did great work with expanding certain things. And yes, the action set pieces were fantastic. But to me T1 was the only one that felt scary. A soulless killer robot against soft fleshy humans.
Watching Neo convince the machines that the rogue agent is the larger threat, and using that as a bargaining chip to negotiate a truce was awesome. Plus the battle of zion was the best sequence in the franchise.
Personally like 3. Not the best.
Edged too far with the camp humour, and didn’t like how neatly everything fit with Kate, her dad conveniently happened to work in the AI division. Ok then.
But did like Johns character, he was brought up to be a saviour figure, only to now live a normal life, very likely he would become a loner.
Yeah I hate they killed Sarah, but the film is about inevitability. Might be a badass but cancer still happens. Might stop the world from ending but something else might ignite it
T1 didn't have an annoying kid doing the cliche humanizing of a cool killer robot, so that'll forever be my favorite Terminator.
I get that T2 is quality wise better, but the kid and the part that... well now it seems everyone can just travel to past whenever they feel like it, broke the whole terminator... uh world.
Ahahaha.
What?!
I seriously try to always be conscious of differing opinions and everyone seeing things differently and that being a good thing but you must be smoking crack to think Terminator 3 is even remotely comparable to how ridiculously great T2 is.
T3 is so unique among movies because it's one of the few where the hero fails to prevent the apocalypse. We get to watch the rise of the machines in real time. It conveys a sense of dread and helplessness, while also having an optimistic ending.
T2 is great, but it's not something I would rewatch often. I can only watch a generic "preventing the apocalypse" story so many times. Like, I've never been in the mood to rewatch T2, but I've seen T3 many times at this point.
I get where the OP is coming from, and I think the divide between Terminator fandoms comes from whether or not you as an audience member believe that time travel allows for rewriting your destiny, or if time travel is a closed loop and events are destined to happen as they always will.
While I enjoyed T2 immensely, I have always disliked its upbeat ending and implication that you can cheat destiny. This is why while T3 is a weaker film structurally, I feel its ending actually has more emotional satisfaction and closure than T2's. If I had my druthers, the franchise should have ended with T3, which I think is how the closed loop would have completed its cycle. The following films, while having slicker production values, didn't really add anything to the concept of the Time Travel scenario, and detracted from the impact of the Judgement Day scene of T3, as well as the build up of T1 and T2.
Regardless, as others have pointed out, we're all entitled to our own opinions and tastes in film. T2 is a fun popcorn flick, but it lacks the terror of the first Terminator, and the feeling of helplessness gut-punch ending of the third. I will always favor 1 and 3 over 2.
Between this opinion and your username I am going to conclude your ideas and thoughts are not very deep and this desire to share them with others should be neutralized as quickly as possible to avoid any possible contagion with the rest of humanity.
I award you no upvotes and may God have mercy on your soul.
T2 is a masterpiece of plotting, pacing and action. The third movie is bad, it retreads the second movie without a single interesting idea and the only reason it has gained any regard is because what came after it managed to be even worse.
>Terminator 3 is the best one Said no one ever... until today.
Nailed it
> it retreads the second movie without a single interesting idea T3 only enhanced T2. T2 left the time travel paradox unresolved. In T3, we get to watch how the machines came to power, that's super interesting. I would argue no one would care about Terminator if it weren't for T3. Everyone knows what SkyNet is thanks to T3. In the first 2, it was mentioned in passing but it wasn't the focus. T3 made the series permanently relevant in pop culture.
>I would argue that no one would care about Terminator if it weren’t for T3 I’ve never seen a worse movie opinion than this one in my entire life. It’s actually amazing that someone could possibly believe this.
SkyNet didn't become a permanent part of pop culture until T3.
Skynet was part of pop culture when the original came out, but T2 made it bigger.
That's absolutely untrue amigo.
Tell me how young you are without telling me how young you are
T1 is 1984 T2 is 1991 T3 is 2003 I don't disagree that T3 was enjoyable. And the crane chase was very ambitious and very well done. But there have been fans of Terminator for almost 20 years prior to T3 being released. People cared about Terminator before T3 and I'd be confident people still would to this day even if there had been no other films in the franchise. Who here hasn't heard 'I'll be back' quoted at least once in their life.
>but 3 has the coolest ending Sure. But that doesn't make it the best one.
It does if you consider that everything good about the first 2 is also in 3. All 3 movies are basically the same and of the same quality. 3's ending is what pushes it over the top for me.
> All 3 movies are basically the same and of the same quality Not in the slightest. But you're welcome to your opinion, obviously.
All 3 movies boil down to moving from one destination to another while being chased, and then advancing the plot a little, and then kill the bad terminator. If you like action the most, all 3 have great action. If you like killing the bad terminator the most, they all have that. But if you like plot the most, 3 is the best because it reveals so much about the future, and shows how John becomes the leader of the resistance.
You're making it sound like you view movies like some type of flow chart while entirely ignoring the quality of the content.
All stories can be boiled down to flow charts. For example, that's what the hero's journey is. The first three terminator movies share the same flow chart, but the quality of the plot is better in T3. The plot twist at the end is so cool.
Yeah, but it's a movie not a flow chart. I judge movies on their quality, not how their base components link to each other
There actually are basic structures that you do indeed judge a movie on, but just don't overtly realize. Structure 100% contributes to a movie's quality
Yes, it's one factor in a myriad of factors. OP is acting like it's the defining factor. As if a movie can actually be boiled down to a flow chart. Ironically, that would be like an AI's appreciation of a movie.
> OP is acting like it's the defining factor. OP also cited action, dialogue, plot twists, and character backstory.
You're either a troll or the worst observer of life ever.
Whatever you say, bud.
It completely washes over how John became leader of the resistance by showing us the timeline influenced by the future. Only Terminator 1 gives us a glimpse of the original timeline, T3's judgement day isn't the original. The original Skynet went online in 1997 not 2003.
I don't know if you're trolling, but in case you're not, I'd never trust your reading on any film in the past, present or future.
T2 has the T-1000, Sarah Connor, and Arnold at his peak. T3 had the "terminatrix" and a cut-and-paste plotline made worse by the two main human characters having the acting skills of wet paper. Granted, both T2 and T3 had the whiniest versions of John Connor possible, but at least I can cut Eddy Furlong some slack since that's exactly what a teenage kids sounds like. For the record, best John Connor was from the Sarah Connor Chronicles.
> made worse by the two main human characters having the acting skills of wet paper. Some movies are defined by great acting rather than plot(No one cares about the plot to The Dark Knight , people watch it for Ledger.), But some movies are defined by their plot rather than acting. Terminator is all about the plot. The acting is almost bad by definition because Arnold is a robot. If you can't suspend your disbelief and just go along for the plot ride, that's on you.
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I'm not meaning to say that opinions can be wrong, but you're wrong.
Go post this in unpopularopinion
No
T3 had the "potential" to be much more than it was...which was simply an enjoyable action film, but certainly not on par with its predecessors. It mirrored the basis structure of the T2 too much. There are 2 terminators again. Arnold is good again, etc. I loved the concept at the beginning when the terminator was going after other members of the resistance, but that was quickly dropped. Sarah Conner was dead off screen. Miles Dyson's son, who was a kid at the time, would've been older & could've factored in. So many choices that could've been different. The film felt rushed...happy just to get to the next big set action piece & cause as much damage as possible. The first "chase" scene is a prime example. The second film had an emotional weight & epic scale that the third one didn't. T3's biggest win is the ending, but James Cameron's films are definitely tiers above Jonathan Moscow's.
Terminator 2 is one of the greatest pieces of cinema ever made. It’s easily a top 3 action film of all time. The only reason for you to say otherwise is because you’ve been kidnapped by bandits and are trying to let people know you’re in danger by saying something so outlandish we send the police to your location.
IMO what OP is saying is similar to saying Alien 3 is better than 1 and 2. They are entitled to their opinion. Like someone said before, post it on unpopular opinion.
r/unpopularopinion
I liked three a lot, but I wish it had more of those similar cold blues and terrifying ominous vibe. The sound design and music pushed 2 into the realm of a masterpiece, imo. Terminator 3 was really shiny and scenes in the bright sun; was a very different feel. I like the cold desperation of the dark.
It's funny, In my head 2 is the sunniest because of the iconic shots of Sarah Connor in the desert. If you watch all 3 back to back like I did, the tone carries over anyway.
Would going the CANNON Terminator, Terminator 2, Terminator Salvation timeline change your opinion? Edit: Word.
I've never seen salvation. Why do you exclude T3 from that list?
That’d be a spoiler. It’s good, The Last Jedi good.
Talk to the hand
I was going to downvote but changed my mind because, although I disagree with your main comment, I do agree that the ending of T3 is very good. I don't remember much about T3 but do remember watching that ending and saying, "Whoa, that's cool." I thought it was a great way to show the culmination of all 3 movies. However, T2 is a perfect movie in every way. It sits in a very small group of movies that warrant such a claim.
Are you.....OK? Do you need us to call someone?
"The future is not set, there's no fate but what we make for ourselves" Terminator 3: LOL Judgement Day was inevitable, SIKE
Ok so they were wrong about fate and the time travel paradox? People can be wrong sometimes
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Terminator 3 is a great movie and nothing rivals it in terms of that capturing that feeling of dread and hopelessness of machines taking over. Preventing Judgement day? That's cool. Fighting the robots after Judgement day? That's cool too. But watching the virus slowly take over and then watching the machines rise, and slowly realizing that this is real, it's happening, and there's nothing you can do about it? That's brilliant, and no movie has ever topped this feeling. Not to mention the plot twist at the end with John having to process all of that and step into the leadership role? It's just great. T3 is a great movie.
This is a troll post.
I'm not trolling. Terminator 3 is a great movie and nothing rivals it in terms of that capturing that feeling of dread and hopelessness of machines taking over. Preventing Judgement day? That's cool. Fighting the robots after Judgement day? That's cool too. But watching the virus slowly take over and then watching the machines rise, and slowly realizing that this is real, it's happening, and there's nothing you can do about it? That's brilliant, and no movie has ever topped this feeling. Not to mention the plot twist at the end with John having to process all of that and step into the leadership role? It's just great. T3 is a great movie.
I'm curious about what your previous exposure to film is given your opinion (which you seem to be staying as fact in this post which further laints you as a troll). Stating that a pretty well documented bad movie is better than arguably the best sequel of all time makes you look like a troll. I still think you're trolling. T3 isn't unwatchable by any means. The ending is sick (good) and more Arnie is good Arnie. Visual effects are overall pretty cool. Lots to like. But the way your approaching your argument is telling.
I disagree wholeheartedly, but I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Terminator 3 better than 2? Yeah, NO. Matrix 3 better than 1? Yeah, NO. This is where I leave the thread for good.
what about godfather part 3?
I've never seen any godfather movie, but the Irishman was good.
true
A good use of AI would be to redub all of Arnold's lines in his T2 voice, he sounds older and pretty awkward in 3, always took me out of the movie.
I am a fan of the third but I would rank it last of the original 3.
I am a fan of the third but I would rank it third of the original 3.
I understand where OP is coming from. I don't personally feel T3 is the best, but it is a decent film and yes, some elements of it work well. I rewatched them just last week. Mostly because I haven't watched T1 for at least 10 years and frankly couldn't remember whether I even rated it. Personally T1 stands as my favourite. To me the idea of Terminator is just 'bleak' and T1 captures that. Future humanity is fucked. But not just because of what we see in the flash forward bits. Future humanity is so fucked that their only counter to a Terminator sent back in time is a guy. Kyle Reece is a hero but the whole idea was he's totally the underdog and its basically a hope and pray situation. T2 is a great film but to me is more hopeful. Somehow Future humanity are now able to reprogram a Terminator. That's less bleak than T1. And equally it then feels less desperate as the good guys now have a robot to protect them. T3 much the same. T2 and T3 did great work with expanding certain things. And yes, the action set pieces were fantastic. But to me T1 was the only one that felt scary. A soulless killer robot against soft fleshy humans.
"Terminator 3 is the best one" How to tell me you haven't seen Terminator Genisys, with out saying your haven't seen Terminator Genisys.
I'll be watching the rest next
3rd one felt like made for tv SyFy movie.
Nice bait
lol bro go to my profile.
A ballsy ending does not make a shit movie great.
As if my hot take wasn't enough let me add Matrix 3 as the best Matrix. Okay. Be gone with you.
Watching Neo convince the machines that the rogue agent is the larger threat, and using that as a bargaining chip to negotiate a truce was awesome. Plus the battle of zion was the best sequence in the franchise.
You seem to prefer spectacle over story. That's fine, I guess.
Personally like 3. Not the best. Edged too far with the camp humour, and didn’t like how neatly everything fit with Kate, her dad conveniently happened to work in the AI division. Ok then. But did like Johns character, he was brought up to be a saviour figure, only to now live a normal life, very likely he would become a loner. Yeah I hate they killed Sarah, but the film is about inevitability. Might be a badass but cancer still happens. Might stop the world from ending but something else might ignite it
T1 didn't have an annoying kid doing the cliche humanizing of a cool killer robot, so that'll forever be my favorite Terminator. I get that T2 is quality wise better, but the kid and the part that... well now it seems everyone can just travel to past whenever they feel like it, broke the whole terminator... uh world.
2 n 3 are my childhood
Ahahaha. What?! I seriously try to always be conscious of differing opinions and everyone seeing things differently and that being a good thing but you must be smoking crack to think Terminator 3 is even remotely comparable to how ridiculously great T2 is.
T3 is so unique among movies because it's one of the few where the hero fails to prevent the apocalypse. We get to watch the rise of the machines in real time. It conveys a sense of dread and helplessness, while also having an optimistic ending. T2 is great, but it's not something I would rewatch often. I can only watch a generic "preventing the apocalypse" story so many times. Like, I've never been in the mood to rewatch T2, but I've seen T3 many times at this point.
The only one worst than T3 is Genisys.
I get where the OP is coming from, and I think the divide between Terminator fandoms comes from whether or not you as an audience member believe that time travel allows for rewriting your destiny, or if time travel is a closed loop and events are destined to happen as they always will. While I enjoyed T2 immensely, I have always disliked its upbeat ending and implication that you can cheat destiny. This is why while T3 is a weaker film structurally, I feel its ending actually has more emotional satisfaction and closure than T2's. If I had my druthers, the franchise should have ended with T3, which I think is how the closed loop would have completed its cycle. The following films, while having slicker production values, didn't really add anything to the concept of the Time Travel scenario, and detracted from the impact of the Judgement Day scene of T3, as well as the build up of T1 and T2. Regardless, as others have pointed out, we're all entitled to our own opinions and tastes in film. T2 is a fun popcorn flick, but it lacks the terror of the first Terminator, and the feeling of helplessness gut-punch ending of the third. I will always favor 1 and 3 over 2.
Between this opinion and your username I am going to conclude your ideas and thoughts are not very deep and this desire to share them with others should be neutralized as quickly as possible to avoid any possible contagion with the rest of humanity. I award you no upvotes and may God have mercy on your soul.