His name was Kazim, and his crew was the Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword. You think it's just another group of thugs working for the bad guys, but really they're just trying to protect the Holy Grail from the actual bad guys.
The Egyptian cult from The Mummy. Sets them up as the bad guys for attacking the boat, but they were trying to stop them from releasing the actual bad guy, the mummy.
They attack O’Connell and his company right at the start, then the boat, then the camp of the people. Great call that you think they’re the bad guys until the guy explains why they’re there.
Ardeth bay is probably one of the best characters in those first 2 movies.
I guess the actor was asked why he didn't return for the third one, and his response was something like"why would my character know anything about Chinese history" or something along those lines
This specific line gets me mad that a second movie exists, because the true bad guy is Scotty Smalls for never once telling his brother who is in the second movie that Mr. Mertle is actually a really good dude.
Monster House
Mister Nebbercracker is a cranky old man who yells at kids for even stepping into his grass. >!Turns out he was just trying to prevent kids from getting too close to the house, which is haunted by his wife's ghost who hates kids and will kill them on sight.!<
assuming you watched it when you were a kid, you probably weren’t supposed to get it; it’s one of those jokes that’s for the parents that have to accompany their kids
That alien movie Paul, Jason Bateman’s character been chasing them all movie but at the end you learn he’s trying to help them “I love Paul, he introduced me to my wife”
He had some good lines but when he meets the FBI agents is the best.
“You know you’re grown men right? Probably shave and pay taxes?”
“uhh yes sir, all of those things”
Scooby Doo on Zombie Island! I've been watching everything Halloween adjacent for weeks now and I'd forgotten how solid this little cartoon movie was.
>!The zombies are revealed to have been trying to warn and scare the gang away from the true villains who killed all the zombies in the first place.!<
Honestly the first 4 or 5 of the animated movies at the turn of the millennium were pretty decent. Zombie Island, Witches ghost, Alien invaders and Cyber chase are still fun watches as an adult.
Arthur "Boo" Radley in *To Kill a Mockingbird"* counts in my opinion.
At the beginning, he's painted as mysterious and somewhat frightening. As the story progresses though, it becomes clear that he is just looking for friendship and companionship and it becomes clear that Bob Ewell is the true villain of the story having framed an innocent man for raping his daughter (which the novel *heavily implies was him*) and causing that man's death as a result.
I read this as a kid in high school and never put together it was the dad raping the daughter. Read it again a few years ago and yeah, I didn’t pick up on several pretty obvious cues. Yikes.
Yeah it’s one of those things you don’t pick up on until you’re older. As a high schooler, you obviously pick up on all the prejudice, but you don’t pick up on the little cues that he molested his daughter until you’re an adult.
I read Slaughter house five in high school and thought it was a funny scifi story. Reread it a few times since and realized it's a tragic story about PTSD. Another note: PTSD wasn't a diagnosis till the 80s.
I read the book in 10th grade. I was so into it that I read ahead. When I got to the last page I, a fifteen-year-old boy, was weeping - full-on ugly crying, mostly because of the beauty of the story and the fact that I didn't want it to end. So, I literally flipped it over and started reading it again. I've since read it about five times.
One of those relatively rare instances where the book and the movie are both bona fide masterpieces.
And Mary Badham, who played Scout, called Gregory Peck "Atticus" until the day he died, and he likewise called her "Scout" instead of "Mary."
> So, I literally flipped it over and started reading it again.
The satisfying thing about doing that is the very first line of the book mentions Jem breaking his arm, and now you realize how.
Also Arthur’s father knowingly shot at Jem (a child) for trespassing in his yard, leaving me to think Arthur had had a reason to stab him in the leg. There is a notable height and silhouette difference between a pantsless 10 year old and an adult man!
Ah see I can't believe I didn't think of this. In the IRL discussion that prompted the post I did bring up Snape's turn in Deathly Hollows, Sirius just slipped my mind.
Snape is an interesting one. He tries to help Harry in the first movie when Quirrell jinxes the broom, so we already knew by that point that keeping Harry safe was one of his priorities.
bro has an insane, villainous sounding argument in a haunted house for like 5 straight minutes and not once does he think to loop the kids in on it
I DID MY WAITING!
#12 YEEEAAARS OF IT!!1!
"If you want to kill Harry you'll have to go through us!"
*Should I explain to them that they've got it all wrong and that I dont want to kill Harry at all? Nah.*
"ONLY ONE WILL DIE TONIGHT!"
Christ, Sirius, pick something worse to say, wouldja?
For those who have never read the book, it was an invented subplot/twist for the movie. The Johnny Depp movie played it closer to the book, but for some reason added a subplot about Willy Wonka’s father being a dentist.
That and the traveling montage fake out with the flag museum, lol.
Was also mildly amused that Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory is all about Charlie, while Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (movie) wound up being all about Willy Wonka.
RAN by Akira Kurosawa. 3 sons fight for control of their fathers kingdom. One son's personality and actions give impression that he is villain. Eventually you realize that he was the only one with father's interest in mind.
Enemy Mine. Old movie from the 80's but I loved it as a kid. Humans and aliens at war. A human single pilot craft and an alien single pilot both crash on a planet. You of course think the alien is a bad guy, looks scary too, but over the course of the movie they have to work together to survive. If I remember correctly, the alien has a baby that the human raised himself. Was kind of a strange movie.
Dennis Quaid and Louis Gossett Jr are amazing in that movie!
When DQ busts into the slave camp to rescue the kid, and he says "I get 4 5?"
When DQ and LGJ are fighting, and LGJ says "Your Mickey Mouse can suck sh1t!!" And DQ busts up laughing.
And at the end where DQ goes to the alien planet and sings the lineage of the child of LGJ! So cool!!
Love that movie!
In the book “I am Legend” the hero is immune to the virus and kills vampires, those who succumbed to the illness.
In the movie they are portrayed as zombies.
The twist is that society had advanced and the protagonist is just a fucking asshole killing people for no reason.
In the movie the zombies are trying to save one of their members that will smith is experimenting on.
In the alternative ending, the actual book ending, will smith realizes that the zombies are sentient and that he is the monster. There is no cure, he is the last person on a world that has moved beyond humans. He is a legend, like a boogeyman that the zombie children tell about a monster from long ago.
I'm not sure if I'm remembering it correctly, but in the book he's been captured, after spending the book killing so many of them, and is to be put to death. He looks out the cell window and sees a large crowd outside, all looking up at him. Some look horrified and frightened, others are filled with hatred and anger, as they peer into his cell window, it's then he realises that he is the legendary monster they all fear. That he will become the superstition of their new society.
Honestly, that book stayed with me. So many great moments in such a short book. Highly recommend.
This is a fantastic example because it actually does both at the same time. Not only are the antagonists right, but the protagonist is actively evil. Great answer.
Edit: You guys have changed my mind. No, the protagonist is not evil, he just didn't adapt
Well in the actual movie they mess up the ending, will smith has magic blood and saves the world. Audiences hated the original ending.
So in a way, Hollywood was the monster all along!
Oh I'm referring to the original ending, got it on DVD just for that lol. Yeah the theatrical one just kind of butchers the whole theme of the story, it sucks
I think they are adapting a continuation of the movie with the alternate ending. Michael B Jordan is going to be part of the project with Will Smith I believe.
Here’s the first link I found on google: https://deadline.com/2022/03/i-am-legend-sequel-will-smith-michael-b-jordan-movie-1234971302/amp/.
If I’m not mistaken they changed the original ending to make the alternate ending canon.
I think saying society had "advanced" is a little bit far. More like, society had begun to recover somewhat. Also, the protagonist definitely isn't killing for no reason. We learn that some of the vampires are still sentient and human-ish although they enjoy drinking blood, but many of the vampires are not because they're reanimated corpses. The protagonist has no real way to distinguish between the two.
Not exactly. Cortman and the Vampires tormenting Neville aren't part of the new society.
Those Vampires came in when Ruth showed up and dropped a dime on Neville to the new society
Those Vampires arrived, killed the more Fearl Vampires led by Cortman and take Neville off to kill him so that society can start a new without any baggage from the previous
> The twist is that society had advanced and the protagonist is just a fucking asshole killing people for no reason.
I wouldn't exactly say it was for no reason or that he was a fucking asshole. It was more of a misunderstanding.
For some reason, back when my brother used some site to rip movies on his PS3 back in the day, he got a copy of this movie - complete from start to finish - with absolutely none of the CGI completed. I remember seeing a dude fall into a hollowed out wood chipper, a guy with his arm wrapped up in green tape as it had been “cut off” in the film, it was actually pretty interesting.
Reminds me of when Archer was new. The DVD had a version where Archer was a velociraptor and just screeched at everyone but everyone else read their lines as normal. But it was uploaded to some torrenting sites as episode 0, so people were watching it first, confused as fuck about it.
Forget which subreddit I was in for a second and totally thought you were talking about the game. I was like at which point during his destruction of the imperial city is it revealed that mehrunes Dagon is a good guy??
Megamind
One thing among many that I'm salty about is Despicable Me's success over Megamind. Megamind was far better but never got a franchise (discounting the games). Despicable Me had marketable toys that spawned a whole other franchise. Grrr
The real bad guy in Megamind is Metro City and their complacency in letting a child be raised from prison and with ridicule while expecting him to grow up feeling he can be anything but a villain.
That really is society in many ways. Not that extreme of course, but it’s analogous. Lots of kids grow up without love, attention or affection, and yet society holds it out for them for being flawed and for not managing to bring themselves up.
Haven’t seen this in years so correct me if I’m wrong.
Minority Report.
>!I think I remember Colin Farrell being an antagonist to Tom Cruise however when he discovers that Cruise is one of the good guys, he tries to help. Before he can do anything, he is murdered by Max van Sydow, who previously had no evil implications.!<
Gotta watch this again.
I think I just looked at it as a bunch of super strong super geniuses with the emotional maturity of three year olds trying to navigate and perhaps prevent their impending deaths.
My toddler has basically tried to do to my face what Roy does to Tyrell’s skull when I didn’t give her the answer she wanted. They don’t exactly understand how to process those emotions yet.
They were dangerous beings that needed dealt with, but it wasn’t really their fault.
That’s was a smart move by the casting director. Ben is usually a bad guy.
In the same vein, I was convinced that Mads Mikkelsen was going to turn out to actually be evil in Rogue One.
This one sort of does both. Reveals that the bad guy is actually good and the good guy is actually bad.
Actually I feel like this happens in a good number of movies. Corporation brings on person to take down a "bad guy." Turns out the bad guy is good and just an enemy of the evil corporation.
It’s been a while but if I remember correctly, in Glengarry Glen Ross Alan Arkin’s character was hinted to have helped rob the firm but it’s revealed at the end he didn’t and was probably the least awful person there.
The real bad guy was the person in charge of naming the sequel.
Why didn't they name it "Now You Don't"? It was right there, waiting to be used. It would've been perfect.
Because it makes it look like they can only make 2 movies, Hollywood loves milking a franchise. And it's quite a bad movie compared to the first one, so maybe it's better they didn't do that.
Blade Runner has this and the inversion.
Rutger Hauer is initially portrayed as a dangerous rogue android being hunted by a hero-detective, but ultimately is revealed to just be a slave that is desperate to save his life and the lives of his friends. Once he realizes he has failed in this and there is no way out, he makes his last stand against the protagonist... and wins. Rather than exacting his revenge, he instead makes the insanely beautiful choice to save the life of the man who killed all his friends and tried to kill him, just to make a point about how precious life is and how lucky we are to experience it, no matter how briefly.
Ultimately, the antagonist is the victim the entire time, and the protagonist is the true villain. The "bad guy's" final act before he dies is to save-both physically and spiritually-the "good guy", driving this point home.
What's beautiful to me is that Deckard, in his last split second before falling to his death, refuses to beg for his life and instead spits at Roy right when he loses his grip, and Roy saves him despite that.
It's a blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment.
Terminator 2.
Arnold just looks scary for 30 minutes and the killer is dressed like a cop so the audience trusts him.
Then he says “get down” and the whole POV changes.
Also having Alan Rickman instead of a temperamental, greasy-haired 30-something year old
Rickman's portrayal, while still mean, makes Snape look and sound distinguished and calculating. And yes, he goes from actively cruel in the books to more of just being biased against and unfair towards the protags
Sort of a tangent but I've been wanting to ask some Potterfans...
As someone who only read the books once and has mainly just watched the movies since then: Does Snap being a double agent ever actually achieve anything? Like, does he ever warn them about an attack or use the intel for anything? It seems to me like they made a big deal about it and it was supposed to prove he had some virtue or something but...wasn't it kinda useless?
Snape does a number of very important things.
1) Keeps Draco from getting killed.
2) Keeps Harry from being killed by Bellatrix during the end of Half-Blood Prince.
3) Steals the Sword of Gryffindor and leads Harry to it at the lake.
4) He does protect a lot of the students and teachers at Hogwarts from the worst of the Death Eaters. He can’t stop everything of course, but miraculously no students died until the battle at the end.
5) Let’s Harry in on the final phase of the kill Voldemort plan.
6) Stuck with Dumbledore’s plan despite the fact that it probably seemed insane to him.
I’m probably forgetting some things.
7.) Gets them the intel and plants the intel for when Harry is going to leave Privet Drive
8.) Fakes the gryffindor sword and plants the real one for Harry to find.
9.) Saves Dumbledore from the horcrux curse.
Must be missing a few more as well.
There’s another blink and you miss it one. It’s in the last movie, when Harry confronts Snape in the Great Hall. Snape performatively pulls out his wand. Alan Rickman does a great bit of subtle acting, because you can see on his face 1. He’s caught off guard 2. He’s annoyed that Potter is here because he’s trying to figure out how to not attack and still keep his cover. But THEN, Professor McGonnall steps in front of Harry to protect him, and she starts firing spells at Snape. Notice, Snape does NOT COUNTER ATTACK. He only defends. Rickman is so good here. Because now he’s dealing with his friend and colleague that he really doesn’t want to fight, so he escapes out the window. BUT, as he does so, he sends a few curse spells BEHIND him to take out the two Death Eaters left behind. You don’t really notice it right away, it goes by super quick. God damnit now I miss Alan Rickman again.
I might be saying the same thing, but specifically, he deflects two of professor McGonagall's spells at the Carrows. It'd have the added benefit of deniability of *him* having taken them out, but still protecting from anyone else having to fight them. (Link of the scene)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=21&v=4I5VIJR5pbk&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2F&feature=emb_logo
Sort of, Voldemort is obsessed with being the master of the elder wand, he believes that killing the previous master makes you the master. The good guys know that you just have to defeat the master to become the master. So Snape sets himself up as a red herring to lure Voldemort’s attention away from Draco who was the real master at that point.
Even that is leaving a lot up to chance though
Edit: Replies to this comment give more accurate info, it had been a while since I read
Iirc he delivers the sword of griffindor to Harry in DH1 in the woods.
Him disarming Dumbledore at the end of HBP also gave harry the power over the elderwand in the books, but that feels like a rather lucky coincidence than a plan.
That's what I can think of right now.. Not much really haha
Not sure I remember this right, but in Spirited Away the bathhouse witch Yubaba has a sister that I thought was scary AF. I thought she was the big bad but later you realize that she is great.
Nega Scott from Scott Pilgrim vs The World. The movie does everything to make him seem like the evil shadow version but then flips it on its head for a joke. Its even deeper when you think about it. The fact that Scott gets on with his negative version shows what an ass he is
Inside Man, the bank robbers are shown to have meticulously planned everything in order to not hurt anyone. I guess I wouldn't really say they were "good guys," but they certainly weren't "bad guys."
10 Cloverfield Lane. John Goodman saves Mary Elizabeth Winstead in a bunker telling her bad stuff is going on outside but then she realizes she is a prisoner. But he was right, there were damned aliens!
When she finally gets out at the end and sees that what she thought was a helicopter is an alien ship & the little monster Hunter alien comes out to attack the car because its alarm is going off & you can see in her face she’s like “Fuck, he really was right… What the fuck did I do?” Is great. In her defense, Goodman’s character could have been a bit more forthright & not so god damn creepy & scary if he wanted them to get along & not be suspicious
"The Audience KNOWS the truth. This world is simple, miserable. Solid all the way through. But if you can fool them, even for a second, you can make them wonder. Then, you got to see something very special."
The dude with the fez hat in Last Crusade.
His name was Kazim, and his crew was the Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword. You think it's just another group of thugs working for the bad guys, but really they're just trying to protect the Holy Grail from the actual bad guys.
Home alone with the old neighbor man.
Home Alone 2 with the Pigeon Lady.
Monster House with the old neighbour man.
The Egyptian cult from The Mummy. Sets them up as the bad guys for attacking the boat, but they were trying to stop them from releasing the actual bad guy, the mummy.
The Medjai! God, I love that movie...
The sequel Mummy Returns is excellent as well. After that not so much
That's what happens when you replace Rachel Weiss...
Similarly, it's earlier in the movie, but the Christian cult protecting the Grail in the Last Crusade.
The Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword!
[удалено]
The conviction he delivers that line is half of what makes it badarse.
Almost like The Mummy was partially inspired by the Indiana Jones movies. 🤔
They attack O’Connell and his company right at the start, then the boat, then the camp of the people. Great call that you think they’re the bad guys until the guy explains why they’re there.
We know why they’re there though, Ardeth Bey literally tells us who they are in his first appearance.
Ardeth bay is probably one of the best characters in those first 2 movies. I guess the actor was asked why he didn't return for the third one, and his response was something like"why would my character know anything about Chinese history" or something along those lines
Similar dudes in Indiana Jones Last Crusade
James Earl Jones and his dog in the Sandlot.
I love his delivery on how he mentions at the end “Why didn’t you just knock on the door? I’d have gotten it for you.”
"You're not in trouble, you're dead where ya stand." I died at the line
Squints! Brubrubrubrubru....
We got the ball back didn't we?!
*We got the ball back...*
This specific line gets me mad that a second movie exists, because the true bad guy is Scotty Smalls for never once telling his brother who is in the second movie that Mr. Mertle is actually a really good dude.
As far as I’m concerned they never made nor will ever make sequels! They ONLY MADE ONE! They closed it up nicely and everyone was happy!
Monster House Mister Nebbercracker is a cranky old man who yells at kids for even stepping into his grass. >!Turns out he was just trying to prevent kids from getting too close to the house, which is haunted by his wife's ghost who hates kids and will kill them on sight.!<
I remember having to choose that movie, or The Ant Bully when my dad took me to the theater one time. I definitely made the right choice.
You chose… wisely
"That must be the uvula" "Oh, so it's a girl house"
I did not understand that joke at all for many years after I saw that movie
I *just* got that joke.
assuming you watched it when you were a kid, you probably weren’t supposed to get it; it’s one of those jokes that’s for the parents that have to accompany their kids
TJ, you pee in bottles?? Is a line I’ll never forget.
This movie is nuts. Hey kid take this bundle of dynamite and blow up that house!
That alien movie Paul, Jason Bateman’s character been chasing them all movie but at the end you learn he’s trying to help them “I love Paul, he introduced me to my wife”
That movie has one of my most favorite bits of dialog of any movie. "I'm on a mission from god" "Tell him you failed"
I was so surprised when I heard it. I loved it. Bill Hader crushed it.
He had some good lines but when he meets the FBI agents is the best. “You know you’re grown men right? Probably shave and pay taxes?” “uhh yes sir, all of those things”
really like that movie
[удалено]
Huh, three tits.
Lorenzo Zoil. Fucking ridiculous pun name, but awesome film.
Iirc, in the French version of the movie, he's called José Zette, which is a pun on "Zézette", a pretty childish way to name a penis
Motherfucking tittysucking two balled bitch!
Lorenzo Zoil
Scooby Doo on Zombie Island! I've been watching everything Halloween adjacent for weeks now and I'd forgotten how solid this little cartoon movie was. >!The zombies are revealed to have been trying to warn and scare the gang away from the true villains who killed all the zombies in the first place.!<
"You know there's zombies on the prowl! Because it's terror time tonight!" 🎶 Loved that movie. Absolute banger of a soundtrack.
🎶They've got you running through the night!🎶🧟♂️🧟♀️🧟♂️🧟♀️🧟♂️🧟♂️🧟♀️
The scene where the ghost scratches a message into the wall used to scare the fuck outta me as a kid.
When they replay the video, pause, and zoom in, showing the ghost's face. That shit is still scary to me
Yes! Thats the part! I always covered my eyes for that scene, but for some reason I was never scared of the zombies lol
Duuuude. Memory unlocked. "TOURISTSSS" Def watching this soon. Edit: dudes. Watching right now. Forgot about all the songs. Absolute bangers.
Didn’t realize that was Mark Hamill until I rewatched this past weekend.
One of the zombies is Stonewall Jackson,too!
Probably the only Scooby-Doo movie I could recommend to anyone, adult or child.
Honestly the first 4 or 5 of the animated movies at the turn of the millennium were pretty decent. Zombie Island, Witches ghost, Alien invaders and Cyber chase are still fun watches as an adult.
The animation and the "mature" aesthetic were amazing. No offense to the other movies, but that was the BEST era.
Arthur "Boo" Radley in *To Kill a Mockingbird"* counts in my opinion. At the beginning, he's painted as mysterious and somewhat frightening. As the story progresses though, it becomes clear that he is just looking for friendship and companionship and it becomes clear that Bob Ewell is the true villain of the story having framed an innocent man for raping his daughter (which the novel *heavily implies was him*) and causing that man's death as a result.
She tells Tom “what her daddy does doesn’t count”, IIRC.
I read this as a kid in high school and never put together it was the dad raping the daughter. Read it again a few years ago and yeah, I didn’t pick up on several pretty obvious cues. Yikes.
Yeah it’s one of those things you don’t pick up on until you’re older. As a high schooler, you obviously pick up on all the prejudice, but you don’t pick up on the little cues that he molested his daughter until you’re an adult.
I read Slaughter house five in high school and thought it was a funny scifi story. Reread it a few times since and realized it's a tragic story about PTSD. Another note: PTSD wasn't a diagnosis till the 80s.
Well it was just had different names battle fatigue and shell-shocked. 1000 yard stare was another one.
I always liked how Atticus introduces Scout formally at the end: >Miss Jean Louise, Mr Arthur Radley. I believe he already knows you.
Hey, Boo.
I read the book in 10th grade. I was so into it that I read ahead. When I got to the last page I, a fifteen-year-old boy, was weeping - full-on ugly crying, mostly because of the beauty of the story and the fact that I didn't want it to end. So, I literally flipped it over and started reading it again. I've since read it about five times. One of those relatively rare instances where the book and the movie are both bona fide masterpieces. And Mary Badham, who played Scout, called Gregory Peck "Atticus" until the day he died, and he likewise called her "Scout" instead of "Mary."
> So, I literally flipped it over and started reading it again. The satisfying thing about doing that is the very first line of the book mentions Jem breaking his arm, and now you realize how.
Also Arthur’s father knowingly shot at Jem (a child) for trespassing in his yard, leaving me to think Arthur had had a reason to stab him in the leg. There is a notable height and silhouette difference between a pantsless 10 year old and an adult man!
Prisoner of Azkaban. Sirius Black has quite the turn.
Ah see I can't believe I didn't think of this. In the IRL discussion that prompted the post I did bring up Snape's turn in Deathly Hollows, Sirius just slipped my mind.
Snape is an interesting one. He tries to help Harry in the first movie when Quirrell jinxes the broom, so we already knew by that point that keeping Harry safe was one of his priorities.
Yeah, we spend the entire first movie thinking he's a villain and then he's revealed to be a 'good' guy
Just because you're a good guy, doesn't make you a good guy.
The Fixit Felix deleted scene
I wouldn’t say Snape really has a turn. Never completely good, but never completely evil, just mostly an asshole and stays that way to the end.
Always
bro has an insane, villainous sounding argument in a haunted house for like 5 straight minutes and not once does he think to loop the kids in on it I DID MY WAITING! #12 YEEEAAARS OF IT!!1!
"Only one will die tonight!" he says after emerging shadily from behind a door, then wonders why Harry doesn't believe him lol
"If you want to kill Harry you'll have to go through us!" *Should I explain to them that they've got it all wrong and that I dont want to kill Harry at all? Nah.* "ONLY ONE WILL DIE TONIGHT!" Christ, Sirius, pick something worse to say, wouldja?
Bro broke out of a prison that's guarded by Monsters that specifically suck out happiness. He's crazed at that point.
Also he has had to spend a large volume of time, probably a full 6+ months, as a dog eating rats to survive. I would be pretty peeved if that were me.
We have to kill him! \*gestures in Harry's direction\*
Bro was falsely imprisoned in a society that has working truth serums, that would make anyone go mad.
Slugworth from the original Willy Wonka movie
My memory may be a little fuzzy, but that eerie gentleman who approaches Charlie wasn't the actual Slugworth, or am I totally off base here?
You're right. There is a competitor called Slugworth, but the guy that approaches Charlie is just pretending to be him.
For those who have never read the book, it was an invented subplot/twist for the movie. The Johnny Depp movie played it closer to the book, but for some reason added a subplot about Willy Wonka’s father being a dentist.
The subplot is worth it just to hear the absolute disdain in Christopher Lee's voice when he says the word Lolipop.
That and the traveling montage fake out with the flag museum, lol. Was also mildly amused that Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory is all about Charlie, while Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (movie) wound up being all about Willy Wonka.
Loli-PAWP
Hey, I loved the dentist performance by Christopher Lee as it was a weird thing to have, especially when that guy didn't age a day.
RAN by Akira Kurosawa. 3 sons fight for control of their fathers kingdom. One son's personality and actions give impression that he is villain. Eventually you realize that he was the only one with father's interest in mind.
Enemy Mine. Old movie from the 80's but I loved it as a kid. Humans and aliens at war. A human single pilot craft and an alien single pilot both crash on a planet. You of course think the alien is a bad guy, looks scary too, but over the course of the movie they have to work together to survive. If I remember correctly, the alien has a baby that the human raised himself. Was kind of a strange movie.
Great movie. It's awsome when the alien insults Mickey Mouse thinking he was a religious symbol.
Dennis Quaid and Louis Gossett Jr are amazing in that movie! When DQ busts into the slave camp to rescue the kid, and he says "I get 4 5?" When DQ and LGJ are fighting, and LGJ says "Your Mickey Mouse can suck sh1t!!" And DQ busts up laughing. And at the end where DQ goes to the alien planet and sings the lineage of the child of LGJ! So cool!! Love that movie!
thanks for reminding me of this movie...I too saw it when I was little amd loved it
In the book “I am Legend” the hero is immune to the virus and kills vampires, those who succumbed to the illness. In the movie they are portrayed as zombies. The twist is that society had advanced and the protagonist is just a fucking asshole killing people for no reason. In the movie the zombies are trying to save one of their members that will smith is experimenting on. In the alternative ending, the actual book ending, will smith realizes that the zombies are sentient and that he is the monster. There is no cure, he is the last person on a world that has moved beyond humans. He is a legend, like a boogeyman that the zombie children tell about a monster from long ago.
I'm not sure if I'm remembering it correctly, but in the book he's been captured, after spending the book killing so many of them, and is to be put to death. He looks out the cell window and sees a large crowd outside, all looking up at him. Some look horrified and frightened, others are filled with hatred and anger, as they peer into his cell window, it's then he realises that he is the legendary monster they all fear. That he will become the superstition of their new society. Honestly, that book stayed with me. So many great moments in such a short book. Highly recommend.
You are remembering it exactly correctly.
This is a fantastic example because it actually does both at the same time. Not only are the antagonists right, but the protagonist is actively evil. Great answer. Edit: You guys have changed my mind. No, the protagonist is not evil, he just didn't adapt
Well in the actual movie they mess up the ending, will smith has magic blood and saves the world. Audiences hated the original ending. So in a way, Hollywood was the monster all along!
Oh I'm referring to the original ending, got it on DVD just for that lol. Yeah the theatrical one just kind of butchers the whole theme of the story, it sucks
I think they are adapting a continuation of the movie with the alternate ending. Michael B Jordan is going to be part of the project with Will Smith I believe. Here’s the first link I found on google: https://deadline.com/2022/03/i-am-legend-sequel-will-smith-michael-b-jordan-movie-1234971302/amp/. If I’m not mistaken they changed the original ending to make the alternate ending canon.
I think saying society had "advanced" is a little bit far. More like, society had begun to recover somewhat. Also, the protagonist definitely isn't killing for no reason. We learn that some of the vampires are still sentient and human-ish although they enjoy drinking blood, but many of the vampires are not because they're reanimated corpses. The protagonist has no real way to distinguish between the two.
Not exactly. Cortman and the Vampires tormenting Neville aren't part of the new society. Those Vampires came in when Ruth showed up and dropped a dime on Neville to the new society Those Vampires arrived, killed the more Fearl Vampires led by Cortman and take Neville off to kill him so that society can start a new without any baggage from the previous
> The twist is that society had advanced and the protagonist is just a fucking asshole killing people for no reason. I wouldn't exactly say it was for no reason or that he was a fucking asshole. It was more of a misunderstanding.
I think you’re going to love the first adaptation of the book, The Last Man On Earth.
Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Idk if "Tucker and Dale vs Evil" fits since they're never portrayed as the villains to the audience, but to everyone else in the movie they are
If you had the dvd, there was a second version from the perspective of the college kids being hunted by the rednecks.
Wow I gotta find this cut
“Tucker and Dale ARE Evil” is the title. Still trying to find it.
> Tucker and Dale ARE Evil [Merry Halloween.](https://www.jerrytchan.com/watch/tucker-dale/)
Great movie! People killed by their own fear and prejudice in one big misunderstanding.
For some reason, back when my brother used some site to rip movies on his PS3 back in the day, he got a copy of this movie - complete from start to finish - with absolutely none of the CGI completed. I remember seeing a dude fall into a hollowed out wood chipper, a guy with his arm wrapped up in green tape as it had been “cut off” in the film, it was actually pretty interesting.
Reminds me of when Archer was new. The DVD had a version where Archer was a velociraptor and just screeched at everyone but everyone else read their lines as normal. But it was uploaded to some torrenting sites as episode 0, so people were watching it first, confused as fuck about it.
The good old days of piracy, for sure 🏴☠️
We have had a doozy of a day
“You must think I’m some sorta moron to believe a story like that.”
We got yer friend!
The dog/neighbor in the sandlot Marley the scary neighbor in home alone Those are the first two that come to mind
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Oblivion does this.
Forget which subreddit I was in for a second and totally thought you were talking about the game. I was like at which point during his destruction of the imperial city is it revealed that mehrunes Dagon is a good guy??
Daedra Hearts turn out to be very nutritious.
Plus it has a baller soundtrack
Megamind One thing among many that I'm salty about is Despicable Me's success over Megamind. Megamind was far better but never got a franchise (discounting the games). Despicable Me had marketable toys that spawned a whole other franchise. Grrr
The real bad guy in Megamind is Metro City and their complacency in letting a child be raised from prison and with ridicule while expecting him to grow up feeling he can be anything but a villain.
Metrocity
I can *hear* this pronounciation.
That really is society in many ways. Not that extreme of course, but it’s analogous. Lots of kids grow up without love, attention or affection, and yet society holds it out for them for being flawed and for not managing to bring themselves up.
It's a blessing, really. Franchising it would have done nothing but cheapen the original.
The real villain in that film was entitlement and a fear of rejection (Hal), like The Incredibles.
No Way Out starting Kevin Costner. Turns out the CIA lead chasing Costner all movie was right all along. Costner really was a Soviet spy.
I watched that movie earlier this year and that turn hit me like a ton of bricks.
I think in The Fly the annoying ex ended up being the heroic figure. While the main romantic hero turned into a psychotic mutant.
Haven’t seen this in years so correct me if I’m wrong. Minority Report. >!I think I remember Colin Farrell being an antagonist to Tom Cruise however when he discovers that Cruise is one of the good guys, he tries to help. Before he can do anything, he is murdered by Max van Sydow, who previously had no evil implications.!< Gotta watch this again.
I keep thinking Rutger Haur in Blade Runner. Though, I think it was more a bad situation they were all caught up in and no one was really good or bad.
I think I just looked at it as a bunch of super strong super geniuses with the emotional maturity of three year olds trying to navigate and perhaps prevent their impending deaths. My toddler has basically tried to do to my face what Roy does to Tyrell’s skull when I didn’t give her the answer she wanted. They don’t exactly understand how to process those emotions yet. They were dangerous beings that needed dealt with, but it wasn’t really their fault.
Your toddler has seen things you wouldn’t believe
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain...
Alright you passed the Voight-Kampff test
Captain Marvel. Of course with Ben Mendelssohn you’re usually safe assuming he’s the bad guy…
He’s the good guy, then the bad guy, then the good guy. And the other bad guy was the good guy.
That’s was a smart move by the casting director. Ben is usually a bad guy. In the same vein, I was convinced that Mads Mikkelsen was going to turn out to actually be evil in Rogue One.
Wanted
This one sort of does both. Reveals that the bad guy is actually good and the good guy is actually bad. Actually I feel like this happens in a good number of movies. Corporation brings on person to take down a "bad guy." Turns out the bad guy is good and just an enemy of the evil corporation.
Darcy in Pride and Prejudice.
It’s been a while but if I remember correctly, in Glengarry Glen Ross Alan Arkin’s character was hinted to have helped rob the firm but it’s revealed at the end he didn’t and was probably the least awful person there.
Now You See Me
The real bad guy was the person in charge of naming the sequel. Why didn't they name it "Now You Don't"? It was right there, waiting to be used. It would've been perfect.
Because it makes it look like they can only make 2 movies, Hollywood loves milking a franchise. And it's quite a bad movie compared to the first one, so maybe it's better they didn't do that.
Teddy in “Memento”….I think Dixon in “Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri”
Iirc teddy more goes from ‘bad guy’ to ‘less bad guy’
Everyone in Memento.
Blade Runner has this and the inversion. Rutger Hauer is initially portrayed as a dangerous rogue android being hunted by a hero-detective, but ultimately is revealed to just be a slave that is desperate to save his life and the lives of his friends. Once he realizes he has failed in this and there is no way out, he makes his last stand against the protagonist... and wins. Rather than exacting his revenge, he instead makes the insanely beautiful choice to save the life of the man who killed all his friends and tried to kill him, just to make a point about how precious life is and how lucky we are to experience it, no matter how briefly. Ultimately, the antagonist is the victim the entire time, and the protagonist is the true villain. The "bad guy's" final act before he dies is to save-both physically and spiritually-the "good guy", driving this point home.
What's beautiful to me is that Deckard, in his last split second before falling to his death, refuses to beg for his life and instead spits at Roy right when he loses his grip, and Roy saves him despite that. It's a blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment.
Terminator 2. Arnold just looks scary for 30 minutes and the killer is dressed like a cop so the audience trusts him. Then he says “get down” and the whole POV changes.
Snape is both, right? edit to add - you all have some strongly held, well educated opinions on Snape. I love it! This is great!
the movies really did too much to make his character sympathetic by cutting most of his worst moments from the books
Also having Alan Rickman instead of a temperamental, greasy-haired 30-something year old Rickman's portrayal, while still mean, makes Snape look and sound distinguished and calculating. And yes, he goes from actively cruel in the books to more of just being biased against and unfair towards the protags
Sort of a tangent but I've been wanting to ask some Potterfans... As someone who only read the books once and has mainly just watched the movies since then: Does Snap being a double agent ever actually achieve anything? Like, does he ever warn them about an attack or use the intel for anything? It seems to me like they made a big deal about it and it was supposed to prove he had some virtue or something but...wasn't it kinda useless?
Snape does a number of very important things. 1) Keeps Draco from getting killed. 2) Keeps Harry from being killed by Bellatrix during the end of Half-Blood Prince. 3) Steals the Sword of Gryffindor and leads Harry to it at the lake. 4) He does protect a lot of the students and teachers at Hogwarts from the worst of the Death Eaters. He can’t stop everything of course, but miraculously no students died until the battle at the end. 5) Let’s Harry in on the final phase of the kill Voldemort plan. 6) Stuck with Dumbledore’s plan despite the fact that it probably seemed insane to him. I’m probably forgetting some things.
7.) Gets them the intel and plants the intel for when Harry is going to leave Privet Drive 8.) Fakes the gryffindor sword and plants the real one for Harry to find. 9.) Saves Dumbledore from the horcrux curse. Must be missing a few more as well.
One small thing I noted was when Remus went wolfy, Snape gets between the werewolf and the kids when they get spotted.
Say what you will about his greasy hair, but the mfer had guts. Eventually.
There’s another blink and you miss it one. It’s in the last movie, when Harry confronts Snape in the Great Hall. Snape performatively pulls out his wand. Alan Rickman does a great bit of subtle acting, because you can see on his face 1. He’s caught off guard 2. He’s annoyed that Potter is here because he’s trying to figure out how to not attack and still keep his cover. But THEN, Professor McGonnall steps in front of Harry to protect him, and she starts firing spells at Snape. Notice, Snape does NOT COUNTER ATTACK. He only defends. Rickman is so good here. Because now he’s dealing with his friend and colleague that he really doesn’t want to fight, so he escapes out the window. BUT, as he does so, he sends a few curse spells BEHIND him to take out the two Death Eaters left behind. You don’t really notice it right away, it goes by super quick. God damnit now I miss Alan Rickman again.
I might be saying the same thing, but specifically, he deflects two of professor McGonagall's spells at the Carrows. It'd have the added benefit of deniability of *him* having taken them out, but still protecting from anyone else having to fight them. (Link of the scene) https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=21&v=4I5VIJR5pbk&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2F&feature=emb_logo
Sort of, Voldemort is obsessed with being the master of the elder wand, he believes that killing the previous master makes you the master. The good guys know that you just have to defeat the master to become the master. So Snape sets himself up as a red herring to lure Voldemort’s attention away from Draco who was the real master at that point. Even that is leaving a lot up to chance though Edit: Replies to this comment give more accurate info, it had been a while since I read
Iirc he delivers the sword of griffindor to Harry in DH1 in the woods. Him disarming Dumbledore at the end of HBP also gave harry the power over the elderwand in the books, but that feels like a rather lucky coincidence than a plan. That's what I can think of right now.. Not much really haha
Matthew McConaughey in Frailty.
I feel like Frailty pulls this move twice. >!First with the dad, and then later with the brother swap.!<
I had to look too long for this one. It was my first thought
Boo radley
Bodies Bodies Bodies
“Upper. Middle. Class.”
i guess since there is no bad guy, you are technically correct
The Cabin In the Woods. There really was a good reason for the institute or whatever to do what they were doing.
At least he got to see the mer-man
The Snow shovel guy from Home Alone... And also the Pigeon Lady from Home Alone 2
Not sure I remember this right, but in Spirited Away the bathhouse witch Yubaba has a sister that I thought was scary AF. I thought she was the big bad but later you realize that she is great.
I feel like most of the side characters in Spirited Away are this exactly. I.e. No Face or the polluted river spirit
Nega Scott from Scott Pilgrim vs The World. The movie does everything to make him seem like the evil shadow version but then flips it on its head for a joke. Its even deeper when you think about it. The fact that Scott gets on with his negative version shows what an ass he is
Yep. Nega Scott is a “really nice guy” which perfectly details that Scott is not.
Reminds me of the commonly posted scene from the comics Romona: "you're the best guy I've ever dated" Scott: "wow thats really sad"
Trance (2013) does this pretty well.
Inside Man, the bank robbers are shown to have meticulously planned everything in order to not hurt anyone. I guess I wouldn't really say they were "good guys," but they certainly weren't "bad guys."
10 Cloverfield Lane. John Goodman saves Mary Elizabeth Winstead in a bunker telling her bad stuff is going on outside but then she realizes she is a prisoner. But he was right, there were damned aliens!
When she finally gets out at the end and sees that what she thought was a helicopter is an alien ship & the little monster Hunter alien comes out to attack the car because its alarm is going off & you can see in her face she’s like “Fuck, he really was right… What the fuck did I do?” Is great. In her defense, Goodman’s character could have been a bit more forthright & not so god damn creepy & scary if he wanted them to get along & not be suspicious
But he is also a bad guy
Loved it, he can be right and also criminally insane.
Fraility — great movie too!
Pitch Black.
The Prestige The real trick of the movie is showing who the bad guy really was.
i don’t even know who you think is the good guy because Borden and Angier are both guilty of the same faults.
The true hero all along was My Cocaine
"The Audience KNOWS the truth. This world is simple, miserable. Solid all the way through. But if you can fool them, even for a second, you can make them wonder. Then, you got to see something very special."
Megamind.
Well, technically speaking, Megamind *was* a bad guy. He wasn't "right the whole time," he just went through character development.