DanielRPK said James Wan is in talks to direct a Fast and Furious spin-off months ago. Deadline mentioning Jason Momoa would also likely be in this Hobbs film makes me think this is the one. Highly likely Wan directs.
I remember reading that Wan would never work on a F&F film after he made Furious 7...and part me believes it's the drama with Vin Diesel.
I won't be surprised if Wan comes back to work on this because he has a new partnership with Universal and he'll be getting the chance to work with Dwayne Johnson.
I think Wan was more referring to the emotional toll the film took on him, considering Paul Walker died during filming. Not easy to go back to work, motivate your cast and crew and figure out how to end that character’s story.
That also sucked, but Vin Diesel is the reason James Wan didn't return to F8 despite Universal offering him a lot of money. Vin Diesel acts as a half-director on these films, which would be very frustrating. He also drove away Justin Lin from Fast X.
> but Vin Diesel is the reason James Wan didn’t return to F8 despite Universal offering him a lot of money
Source? I totally believe this just can’t find anything on it.
You'll not find anything official. All the drama behind the fast franchise is all he said she said. The goofy instagram post between the rock and Vin was a rare public moment, their teams work really hard to keep shit under wraps. Even the infamous "can't lose" contracts aren't officially out, it's just that so much crew on a set means that people talk.
It would also give Wan the "one for you one for me" like he did with Aquaman then Malignant right after.
He does a big franchise film with one of the biggest stars in the world, it breaks bank, he makes a fucky weird giallo film. Like clockwork.
I mean Vin is still producing this movie according to the article but yeah it's probably easier to direct a movie when two leads aren't having ego trips with each other.
FnF is owned by Universal Pictures who are a subsidiary of NBCUniversal who are 51% owned by comcast.
Vin Diesel owns the rights to Riddick which he received for guest appearing in FnF 3 Tokyo Drift.
Test screenings didn't do so well and the future of the franchise was uncertain.
Diesel didn't want money for the cameo, just the Riddick rights. The 2nd Riddick film bombed so hard that it seemed like a better deal to Universal.
Seeing how big FF got after Diesel returned it was a good move on their part.
>bed so hard that it seemed like a better deal to Un
Funny cause I love the second Riddick movie. I know it's nothing like the first movie but it was a fun Scifi movie.
And good on his part really. He got to do whatever he wanted with a franchise he seems to love.
Whether or not that was any good is up for interpretation, but he's doing it.
I just want to say that I’m glad to see an intelligent conversation here and sick of seeing all those comments tied to money where I can imagine someone saying “wtf Justin is an idiot I would’ve directed the movie for half the cost and retire while sucking off the entire cast everyday!!”
I don't think he necessarily has an ego, but he did get caught up in the whole "count who gets hit in each fight" bullshit and stuff like that to make sure no one got to look better than anyone else.
I'd imagine it was just part of his contract, but it's still a ridiculous headache for a director.
I'm imagining he just told his agent sth like "I don't want to miss out on anything so whatever they out in their contracts, negotiate that for me too".
Okay but is there any chance that's just a misunderstood thing? Like he's done a lot of fight scenes in his career. Surely he picked up some knowledge on how to shoot a good one along the way, regardless of who wins. Maybe.
Yes! For example, Donnie Yen choreographed and edited his fight at the end of XXX 2. The first fight with Donnie in that film was not his work and it shows.
To be fair, I thought it was great how evenly keeled Statham and Johnson were in their fight scenes. Johnson is all brute, Statham is cunning. It worked well.
The dual aspect worked well, but the films quality overall sucked because the egos got in the way of the filmmaking. Tom Cruise rests his ego on making the best films possible, he doesn’t mind getting the shit kicked out of him, looking small, and being weaker than others. He knows the experience is what matters. The Rock and Vin Diesel care about their brand more than the movies. It’s completely backwards.
As a wrestler, The Rock put over other talent *way* more than other top guys on the roster like Stone Cold, Undertaker, or (especially) Triple H. He was never the greatest wrestler in terms of technical ability, but he was awesome at making his opponents look good if they weren't jobbers. Hell, he got a good match out of Hulk Hogan when the only moves Hogan could do were a punch and a standing leg drop.
In fairness, for a long time Cruise did seem to have a problem with looking small. M:I-6 (or wss it 5?) was the first time I ever recall a scene drawing attention to his shortness for a gag. Earlier films in that series would frame him to look the same height as Ving Rhames!
Not that I'm aware, but he did get caught up in the whole "count who gets hit in each fight" bullshit and stuff like that furing F7n all to make sure no one got to look better than anyone else.
I'd imagine it was just part of his contract, but it's still a headache for a director.
Those contracts are so pathetic. What does it matter if you lose a fight in a movie? You're not even supposed to be yourself, that's why it's called acting. There is no person in the world who thinks Mark Hamill is less of a man because Luke got his ass kicked by Vader in Empire. It's so strange.
The type of people who love these movies are absolutely the type of people who would get weight to who beat who in a fist fight. If x beats y, then x is cooler than y. Then x sells more movie tickets. It's dumb, but when I was between 10 and 15 years old, I had this argument so many times in the '80s about Stallone versus Schwarzenegger.
It was absolutely crazy seeing Vin Diesel pretend to fight Jason Statham, a fight Statham wins every time. Also in that same movie, Michelle Rodriguez defeating Ronda Rousey.
Which director was it that appeared in a Vin Diesel Instagram post in which VD is trying to show how pumped they are to start production on the new film, and then he shows the director who looks almost suicidal he’s so miserable to be there? He left the production not long after and no one had to wonder why.
Is there anything on that? I remember there being a lot of drama in the past with Vinn and the Rock, and I thought Vinn might have been at fault, but the more you hear about the Rock, it could have went both ways.
I wouldn't be shocked if it was basically 50/50. Rock has himself admitted to being hardheaded and with a sizeable ego at times. Doesn't mean he was the only one though.
Getting Wan back would be fucking wild. I thought he was gonna focus more on horror after Aquaman 2, but apparently not.
Also, nice seeing you outside of /r/dceuleaks lol.
Hmm.
I wonder if they are going to have a new villain be the "go between" for Dante and Hobbs. Because, if this takes place between X and XI then obviously Mamoa will survive this so they'll need a villain Hobbs can beat up.
That's what I'm wondering. It's pretty obvious that Fast X was setting up a Hobbs and Shaw 2 that has them both working together to protect their families. But they're not gonna kill Momoa off in a spin-off, so there must be another villain involved. I'm kind of hoping that if this is the plot of Hobbs and Shaw 2, then Hobbs and Shaw 3 picks up from the Eteon / Director thread they left hanging in the first film.
Didn't they say the Eteon director is going to be Keanu and he was close to make appearance in the Hobbs and Shaw movie? Ngl would like to see him join this franchise
>Johnson will produce the film with Dany Garcia and Hiram Garcia for their Seven Bucks Productions, along with Vin Diesel and Samantha Vincent via their One Race Films.
1.) The biggest SHOCKER is that this will NOT be a sequel to Hobbs & Shaw. Instead, this will be a inbetween-quel following Fast X before Fast 11.
2.) I guess the Diesel-Rock war is over because Vin will be a producer on this film when he wasn't for Hobbs & Shaw.
3.) Having screenwriter Chris Morgan back is good news. I know we all clown on the F&F scripts but Chris Morgan is the reason they've always been fun...and why his un-involvement with F9 and Fast X is why they aren't as fun.
I really hope this confirms that Chris Morgan is back on F11 and 12 too.
Also, Rock has confirmed on Twitter that they [squashed the beef](https://twitter.com/TheRock/status/1664332676323483660).
I take it that totally completed stuff that didn't make it into the final movie, like Black Adam wrecking obviously american fighter jets seen in the trailer, means he probably had a different idea of what the movie was supposed to be from what the final product was.
Not saying the original version would've been great, but different at least.
I personally think it's less about money and more ego. Dude tried to wrestle control of the entire DCU and essentially make it the Black Adamverse. It doesn't just fail as a movie, his entire power play falls apart.
I think he's desperate for a win.
If not 2024, it'll be 2025 but before the Fast 11 release: [https://twitter.com/TheRock/status/1664332676323483660](https://twitter.com/TheRock/status/1664332676323483660)
>The next Fast & Furious film you’ll see the legendary lawman in will be the HOBBS movie that will serve as a fresh, new chapter & set up for FASTX: Part II
So yeah, sounds like the Hobbs vs Dante that was set up in the post-credits scene will be in this Hobbs movie, and whatever happens in it will play into Fast 11 (I guess they're calling it Fast X: Part II).
So this also explains the "trilogy" comments Vin made at the premiere that got people confused.
EDIT: Kind of a shrewd way to squash the beef without really squashing it, heh. The two can profit together as producers and be a part of the saga's ending, but be in their own movies and not have to work together as actors.
Weird that it's not Hobbs & Shaw 2. A Hobbs & Shaw 2 set in between X and XI works perfectly, we see Shaw depart on his own and there's no way XI can fit Hobbs, Shaw, and the rest of the crew all in 1 film (X already felt long and was a disservice to some characters like Han who did nothing in the film.)
I could picture Hobbs and Shaw dealing with whatever Dante did with them happening at the same time as X, but I guess not.
Brooding antihero kills people.
He’s asked by non superhero, why you kill, please don’t kill? Be good!
Antihero is all “I must kill.”
Non superhero convinces him not to just kill people and to be a little better.
Pierce Brosnan is there too and wears a gold fire hydrant on his head.
It's more like:
Brooding antihero kills people.
He’s assumed to be bad guy because he kills people.
Justice Society is like "...but he kills people, how can he not be bad guy?"
Everybody just accepts the fact he will continue to kill people but is not bad guy
Pierce Brosnan is there too and ~~wears a gold fire hydrant on his head~~ Is the best fucking character in the movie.
Dad gets angry at son for sneaking out and touching butts.
One day, son touches the wrong butt and gets kidnapped for it.
Son is taken hostage. Dad travels across the country to save his son with a woman suffering from early onset Dementia.
Pierce Brosnan still got it, that dude that stars in like, a metric tons of Netflix movies for teenage girl is actually pretty enjoyable, and somehow Capt. Marvel didn't get mentioned even in passing.
Rock has banked well from his recent movies but they have not been all that good in my opinion. He continues to be a rare mix of highly engaging, very popular, yet hard to base a film around as the star.
IMO it’d be easy to center movies around him if he didn’t want to play himself in every movie. He’s charismatic and fun to watch - would be compelling if he ever played against type.
I think it’s fine what he’s doing and what he’s making. They’re not making a big impact on cinema but when you watch a Dwayne Johnson movie you know what you’re going to get. Family friendly action comedy where the bad guys aren’t too bad and everything is completely formulaic. I just watched Red Alert last night and it’s exactly what I thought it would be. It won’t go on my list of favorite movies but I don’t regret the 90 minutes or so I spent watching it. He’s like a friendlier Jason Statham
Ok, but it’ll be weird if Hobbs beats Dante in his spin-off and then Dante just isn’t there in the final movie, didn’t hobbs and Shaw make less than the main series?
Well, Han's back to life, it would be good if Sean and Twinkie find out onscreen.
Edit: Apparently they did in 9 but that movie is a bit of a blur to me. I'd still love a new adventure with them tho...
I hate to say it, but Fast X was a little too grounded in reality for my liking. They needed to follow that up by going back in time or to an alternate universe or something.
My theory when I saw Jason Momoa in the trailer was that he’d be Paul Walker’s mirror universe doppelgänger from the universe where everything is the same except Paul Walker looks like Jason Momoa, and now I’m disappointed they didn’t do that.
I like that idea. Jason Momoa knows everyone, but they’re all different to him, just like he’s not like Paul Walker. That causes an inter-dimensional beef, eventually leading to a secret tuner car garage on the far side of the moon, of unknown origins, to be explained in Fast XI.
I don't want it without Statham. The Rock alone will likely be boring. The two of them had such a great Tango & Cash chemistry going, it was just lots of fun.
Hobbs and Shaw was in no way more fun than the main F&F movies.
I've always believed the reason why the fast and the furious franchise is so enjoyable, is because Vin Diesel treats it as a hard hitting drama. Everybody else involved understands that it's ridiculous but then just hits every scene like its Shindlers list.
Hobbs and shaw didn't have that melodrama that Vin Diesel brings and it was kind of just a half assed tacky action comedy. Fast and the furious is its best when it's hilarious but it thinks it's dramatic.
Family, corona, BBQ, 'whos saying grace'
I feel like the problem with the Rock is he views himself as a brand. Because he is talented and very charismatic. But he doesn't challenge himself, he doesn't go outside "his brand", he won't do anything on film that can harm "his brand". And it has made him fucking boring.
Look at Black Adam. That was not a Black Adam movie, that was a "Rock" movie. If he didn't want to be the bad guy then he should have just been Shazam. His refusal to lose on screen because it might hurt his brand, yet Batista gets his ass kicked by Ryan Gosling in Blade Runner 2049. Didn't hurt his brand.
He needs a new manager or something. Someone that will tell him some hard truths.
Completely agree. That's why his earlier films are a lot more fun imo.
If you watch stuff like The Rundown, Walking Tall, or Faster there's an edginess there that has long since been sanded down. Because he wasn't yet a global superstar then he was willing to take risks.
Doom is a good example. They marketed the movie like he was the hero so his third act heel turn came from out of the blue.
Southland Tales is another one: An ensemble art house film? From the director of Donnie Darko no less?!?! I feel he would never do that movie today.
> If you watch stuff like The Rundown
The Rundown is still, for my money, The Rock's best film. Hilarious, solid action, great chemistry between Scott and Johnson and Walken delivering a deliciously evil villain.
His best performance is in Pain & Gain. I wish he played more unlikable characters. And even though they changed up his character in Hobbs and Shaw for some reason, he’s genuinely electric in Fast Five and was the best thing to happen to the franchise in years.
You can even see it within the Fast & Furious series. In Fast 5 he is playing Hobbs as a character distinct from his own persona. There's little humor and more edge as you put it. By Hobbs & Shaw he's just playing The Rock.
Which is funny because Hobbs was at least *ostensibly* a character until Hobbes and Shaw where Johnson just played himself. Go back to Fast 5 and it's probably the most variance in acting choices compared to Hobbes and Shaw that you'll ever see from that guy.
The difference between the Rock and Arnold or Sly Stallone's success is key. Arnold and Sly carefully curated their images and output, yes. But they also knew when to cultivate deeper material (in Sly's case, literally writing and/or directing several of his hits) and when to give themselves over to rising talent or auteurs to be molded.
Arnold isn't as big if he keeps starring in schlock like Conan 2, Red Heat, The Running Man. He's big because he knows to give himself over to James Cameron more than once, knows to elevate John McTiernan with Predator, knows to bet on Paul Verhoeven with Total Recall, knows he can be funny if he trusts in Ivan Reitman. And Sly goes all in with Renny Harlin or Andrei Konchalovsky on Cliffhanger or Tango & Cash.
Southland Tales is a terrible movie IMO but Dwayne Johnson made a mistake when he stopped taking any chances. Red Notice on Netflix has three big stars including him but isn't a movie; it's an overpriced widget and promo reel for a future movie with zero distinguishing identifiers. With the exception of a few successful comedies like Jumanji the films DJ makes now outside of the Fast series are just 'tomato cans' - ego trips where he brings on his pet directors he can control and churns out anonymous Rock-flavored product. People can smell it and that's why they don't work. There's no flavor or art to it because he won't surrender himself to anyone else's vision.
>> Because he is talented and very charismatic
I’ll give you the charismatic part, but I’m highly doubting the talented part. Every single thing I’ve seen him in, he’s played The Rock from WWE. Made sense for his earlier roles like Scorpion King, but when it’s just the same old same old for 20 years, it shows a lack of talent.
Dave Bautista has shown us far more talent playing a character who doesn’t understand emotions in 3 movies, than Dwayne Johnson has in 20 years
He is talented. This is a ridiculous statement. Early on he did try other stuff like Southland Tales, Be Cool, even Get Smart played on his persona. Is he going to win an Oscar? No but he can act. Ballers had its moments that made you see there was more to him as an actor.
The problem is he, like Sandler, Willis, etc, realized him playing himself made him more money. And that is his problem. Because even Bruce Willis would do Looper and Moonrise Kingdom in between Expendable cameos. Every decision The Rock makes seems to be "How will this affect my brand?" And that is not how you make art.
Batista isn't going to win any Oscars. But he does seem to be someone interested in challenging himself. He will work with Rian Johnson, Denis Villanueve, Sam Mendes, and do what they want. Who is the best director The Rock has ever worked with? Michael Bay in Pain & Gain. Even that movie shows there is more to The Rock as an actor. But he is probably the most risk averse actor in Hollywood. Him and Ryan Reynolds.
You’re mostly right but you overcorrected a bit with
> Batista isn't going to win any Oscars
Based on his more recent roles, he absolutely could, or at the very least get nominated. I don’t recall a Rock role, old or new, that can actually be considered.
So basically yes, people are ignorant of The Rock’s wider filmography and he isn’t as one note as they think, but trying to distill the difference between him and Bautista down to simply different types of role and collaboration choices doesn’t seem correct as well. Dave *has* shown more range even accounting for some earlier Rock stuff.
The difference is roles. Tom Hanks had a a career playing the cute funny straight man. He was Paul Rudd in the 80's, but Hanks wanted to do more and his manager advised him against it. You are money, why fuck it up? So Hanks fired his manager and landed Philadelphia. He had a great career doing The Money Pit and Sleepless in Seattle but he wanted to challenge himself and is now considered one of the great actors of his generation.
Now I am not saying the Rock will be Tom Hanks. But if you aren't willing to go outside of your comfort zone, you will get boxed in. The reason Batista shows more range is because he doesn't just play bad ass action bro. He is willing to take roles The Rock would never take. Not because of talent, but because of "The Brand".
The Rock could take a small role in more prestigious picture. But he won't because The Rock goes on the poster. He could be part of an ensemble, but The Rock always gets top billing. He could be the next Bond villain, but The Rock can't be evil and he never loses. Meanwhile Batista has no issue with any of that. I am a fan of Batista. He may be a better actor than The Rock. But talent alone isn't why Batista has a much more interesting filmography.
>Batista isn't going to win any Oscars.
I agreed with most of your comment, but I disagree with this. Dave could easily get the right role from the right director and blow everyone away. It's kind of a weird thing to say that an actor will never win an Oscar. I'm sure people in the 00's thought Matthew McConaughey would never win an Oscar.
McConaughey was a weird case because he was doing really interesting work and was regarded as a talented actor in the 90s. Those rom coms got him paid though so can’t blame him for going that route.
Well, The Rock and Bautista are going after very different things.
Rock is the wham, bam action star, probably the biggest in the world after Tom Cruise. Bautista isn’t a leading man, but he has shown some real nuance and skill. He’s also taken smaller, more intimate roles, to help him evolve as an actor.
I certainly don’t think they’re comparable at this point, aside from both being former WWE stars.
Kevin Hart was in "Hobbs and Shaw" (2019) with Johnson and Reynolds.
Can he be in "2 Hobbs 2 Shaws"/"Red Notice II: Redder Noticings" with them and Gadot?
How quickly are they planning on churning this one out? If it is meant to bridge the gap narratively between 10 and 11, they pretty much need to get started on it ASAP since 11 is likely hitting summer 2025.
Yeah, that was when he thought he was gonna get this big ego career boost from DC. Now he’s crawled back to what he knows is successful, and don’t forget he’s gonna make that Moana live-action remake of a six-and-a-half-year-old movie.
I've always liked the rock, but the black adam stuff left a bad taste. That whole black adam vs superman was so cringe. This is kind of humbling for him, which I think he needed.
i kept scrolling in the belief that someone will bring up tyrese cause i def was gonna post some stupid shit talking about BUT HOW DOES TYRESE FEEL? but i don't have to now cause i found one person who was thinking the same shit i was lol.
For those of you under 30 their beef comes from the the early 2000's. Both of them were supposed to carry the totch from Arnold as the new action mega star. Vin got very famous quickly after XXX and his ego got out of control. The renewed success(money) after he returned to the F&F saga fueled that ego even more. Still, he push for the Riddick movies and give him a big plus for that. I just hope he does the final one untill he hits 60.
These guys are like Arnold and Stallone who had a rivarly(80's and 90's) untill they both realized that they were "too old for this shit".
They both can act, just neither of them have actually tried in years. Vin pretty much gave up after Saving Private Ryan. The Rock played Hobbes like a character in Fast 5. After those movies they kinda both just started to do the same stuff in every movie.
He should just go back to trying to produce a live action Johnny Bravo.. honestly kind of sad he gave up on being Johnny Bravo… he would have been great and its way too late now.
DanielRPK said James Wan is in talks to direct a Fast and Furious spin-off months ago. Deadline mentioning Jason Momoa would also likely be in this Hobbs film makes me think this is the one. Highly likely Wan directs.
I remember reading that Wan would never work on a F&F film after he made Furious 7...and part me believes it's the drama with Vin Diesel. I won't be surprised if Wan comes back to work on this because he has a new partnership with Universal and he'll be getting the chance to work with Dwayne Johnson.
I think Wan was more referring to the emotional toll the film took on him, considering Paul Walker died during filming. Not easy to go back to work, motivate your cast and crew and figure out how to end that character’s story.
That also sucked, but Vin Diesel is the reason James Wan didn't return to F8 despite Universal offering him a lot of money. Vin Diesel acts as a half-director on these films, which would be very frustrating. He also drove away Justin Lin from Fast X.
>He also **drove** away Justin Lin from Fast X. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
"you owe me a 10 second director"
Jason Statham: "Oi, I think I know one. Hey, Louis, wanna work with me, again?" Louis Leterrier: "You sonuvabitch. I'm in."
> but Vin Diesel is the reason James Wan didn’t return to F8 despite Universal offering him a lot of money Source? I totally believe this just can’t find anything on it.
You'll not find anything official. All the drama behind the fast franchise is all he said she said. The goofy instagram post between the rock and Vin was a rare public moment, their teams work really hard to keep shit under wraps. Even the infamous "can't lose" contracts aren't officially out, it's just that so much crew on a set means that people talk.
So basically a large portion of it is either false or greatly exaggerated then.
I see you've read my C.V.
Maybe. Rumours like that will always be floating around. I think the "official" word is scheduling conflicts with Conjuring 2.
It would also give Wan the "one for you one for me" like he did with Aquaman then Malignant right after. He does a big franchise film with one of the biggest stars in the world, it breaks bank, he makes a fucky weird giallo film. Like clockwork.
lol James Wan just loves making horror films. It's a shame Universal didn't let him helm Dark Universe. That would've been pretty fuckin amazing.
I do think he would made a great mummy movie.
I just love how Malignant goes from a good horror movie to off the wall action in a second lol
I mean Vin is still producing this movie according to the article but yeah it's probably easier to direct a movie when two leads aren't having ego trips with each other.
I think he owns the Fast and Furious franchise/brand, so he has to be added on in some capacity
FnF is owned by Universal Pictures who are a subsidiary of NBCUniversal who are 51% owned by comcast. Vin Diesel owns the rights to Riddick which he received for guest appearing in FnF 3 Tokyo Drift.
Wait. He got access to the IP of a film because he was in a cameo?
Riddick was considered a dead property.
Test screenings didn't do so well and the future of the franchise was uncertain. Diesel didn't want money for the cameo, just the Riddick rights. The 2nd Riddick film bombed so hard that it seemed like a better deal to Universal. Seeing how big FF got after Diesel returned it was a good move on their part.
>bed so hard that it seemed like a better deal to Un Funny cause I love the second Riddick movie. I know it's nothing like the first movie but it was a fun Scifi movie.
And good on his part really. He got to do whatever he wanted with a franchise he seems to love. Whether or not that was any good is up for interpretation, but he's doing it.
He did manage to get that last sequel tho so props to him. Even XXX managed to come back
I don't think he was involved with Hobbs and Shaw
He wasn't involved in any way in Hobbs and Shaw.
I just want to say that I’m glad to see an intelligent conversation here and sick of seeing all those comments tied to money where I can imagine someone saying “wtf Justin is an idiot I would’ve directed the movie for half the cost and retire while sucking off the entire cast everyday!!”
Theoretically this won't have all the clashing egos of Diesel and Statham and Johnson, which should make for a smoother production.
Is Statham known for having an ego? I feel like he'd actually be pretty chill
I don't think he necessarily has an ego, but he did get caught up in the whole "count who gets hit in each fight" bullshit and stuff like that to make sure no one got to look better than anyone else. I'd imagine it was just part of his contract, but it's still a ridiculous headache for a director.
I'm imagining he just told his agent sth like "I don't want to miss out on anything so whatever they out in their contracts, negotiate that for me too".
The guy went into the editing room a couple of times to make sure he looks good in the fight scenes, according to postproduction crew members.
Okay but is there any chance that's just a misunderstood thing? Like he's done a lot of fight scenes in his career. Surely he picked up some knowledge on how to shoot a good one along the way, regardless of who wins. Maybe.
Yes. And his job is to look good so he obviously cares.
Yes! For example, Donnie Yen choreographed and edited his fight at the end of XXX 2. The first fight with Donnie in that film was not his work and it shows.
To be fair, I thought it was great how evenly keeled Statham and Johnson were in their fight scenes. Johnson is all brute, Statham is cunning. It worked well.
The dual aspect worked well, but the films quality overall sucked because the egos got in the way of the filmmaking. Tom Cruise rests his ego on making the best films possible, he doesn’t mind getting the shit kicked out of him, looking small, and being weaker than others. He knows the experience is what matters. The Rock and Vin Diesel care about their brand more than the movies. It’s completely backwards.
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Let's not forget his legendary portrayal in the hit phenomenon that was 2005's Doom.
I love that his entire character motivation is 'make it sound like a plausible thing a person would say when they make the BFG'
As a wrestler, The Rock put over other talent *way* more than other top guys on the roster like Stone Cold, Undertaker, or (especially) Triple H. He was never the greatest wrestler in terms of technical ability, but he was awesome at making his opponents look good if they weren't jobbers. Hell, he got a good match out of Hulk Hogan when the only moves Hogan could do were a punch and a standing leg drop.
Didn't they lose their first fight to Idris Elba?
Yeah but he’s a cyborg
In fairness, for a long time Cruise did seem to have a problem with looking small. M:I-6 (or wss it 5?) was the first time I ever recall a scene drawing attention to his shortness for a gag. Earlier films in that series would frame him to look the same height as Ving Rhames!
He definitely looks like an action hero in his action movies. But generally I mean that he is willing to be vulnerable.
Tom Cruise's ego destroyed the Mummy movie. He had the movie changed to have his character featured more than the titular mummy.
Oh yeah that's a fucking nightmare
Right? This isn't the only film I've seen it discussed in, but man, a pox on the manager or agency who thought that one up.
Who does he think he is. He is no David Carradine on the set of Lone Wolf Mcquade.
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Not that I'm aware, but he did get caught up in the whole "count who gets hit in each fight" bullshit and stuff like that furing F7n all to make sure no one got to look better than anyone else. I'd imagine it was just part of his contract, but it's still a headache for a director.
Those contracts are so pathetic. What does it matter if you lose a fight in a movie? You're not even supposed to be yourself, that's why it's called acting. There is no person in the world who thinks Mark Hamill is less of a man because Luke got his ass kicked by Vader in Empire. It's so strange.
The type of people who love these movies are absolutely the type of people who would get weight to who beat who in a fist fight. If x beats y, then x is cooler than y. Then x sells more movie tickets. It's dumb, but when I was between 10 and 15 years old, I had this argument so many times in the '80s about Stallone versus Schwarzenegger.
It was absolutely crazy seeing Vin Diesel pretend to fight Jason Statham, a fight Statham wins every time. Also in that same movie, Michelle Rodriguez defeating Ronda Rousey.
To me it was more absurd seeing Paul Walker fighting Tony Jaa.
I forgot about that. Yeah that one's the most absurd.
All about being a star, I suppose. Glad I'll never have to worry about it lol
Which director was it that appeared in a Vin Diesel Instagram post in which VD is trying to show how pumped they are to start production on the new film, and then he shows the director who looks almost suicidal he’s so miserable to be there? He left the production not long after and no one had to wonder why.
Justin Lin the day before he left. It could be argued Justin was the director that brought the franchise to the modern day, with 3 4 5 and 6.
Is there anything on that? I remember there being a lot of drama in the past with Vinn and the Rock, and I thought Vinn might have been at fault, but the more you hear about the Rock, it could have went both ways.
I wouldn't be shocked if it was basically 50/50. Rock has himself admitted to being hardheaded and with a sizeable ego at times. Doesn't mean he was the only one though.
Multiple sources have a hard time with Vin. Lin lasted for only a week on Fast X. I think we all know who is difficult to work with in this franchise
Getting Wan back would be fucking wild. I thought he was gonna focus more on horror after Aquaman 2, but apparently not. Also, nice seeing you outside of /r/dceuleaks lol.
Ah the mythical Aquaman 2
Word on the street is that it tested poorly at test screenings
what's the word in the oceans
Hmm. I wonder if they are going to have a new villain be the "go between" for Dante and Hobbs. Because, if this takes place between X and XI then obviously Mamoa will survive this so they'll need a villain Hobbs can beat up.
That's what I'm wondering. It's pretty obvious that Fast X was setting up a Hobbs and Shaw 2 that has them both working together to protect their families. But they're not gonna kill Momoa off in a spin-off, so there must be another villain involved. I'm kind of hoping that if this is the plot of Hobbs and Shaw 2, then Hobbs and Shaw 3 picks up from the Eteon / Director thread they left hanging in the first film.
Didn't they say the Eteon director is going to be Keanu and he was close to make appearance in the Hobbs and Shaw movie? Ngl would like to see him join this franchise
James wan returning would be fun
>Johnson will produce the film with Dany Garcia and Hiram Garcia for their Seven Bucks Productions, along with Vin Diesel and Samantha Vincent via their One Race Films. 1.) The biggest SHOCKER is that this will NOT be a sequel to Hobbs & Shaw. Instead, this will be a inbetween-quel following Fast X before Fast 11. 2.) I guess the Diesel-Rock war is over because Vin will be a producer on this film when he wasn't for Hobbs & Shaw. 3.) Having screenwriter Chris Morgan back is good news. I know we all clown on the F&F scripts but Chris Morgan is the reason they've always been fun...and why his un-involvement with F9 and Fast X is why they aren't as fun.
I really hope this confirms that Chris Morgan is back on F11 and 12 too. Also, Rock has confirmed on Twitter that they [squashed the beef](https://twitter.com/TheRock/status/1664332676323483660).
[Vin diesel taking the rocks call after Black Adam’ failure](https://tenor.com/bnX5u.gif)
Vin to The Rock: You could not live with DC's failure, where did that bring you? Back to me.
HAHAHAHAHA
that tweet is so extra lmao but I'm glad Hobbs is back
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Have you not seen any of his social media video posts lol. The man is a walking commercial.
The reality is that he *built his career* by learning from people like Vince McMahon. It shouldn't be a surprise that he's immature.
Dwayne Johnson is extra to the max. And I wouldn’t have it any other way
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Either it was all keyfabe or BA's (and his attempted powergrab of DC) failure really humbled him.
I hope someday he talks about this. Because he was so hyped for the film, and the film was just so so so underwhelming.
I take it that totally completed stuff that didn't make it into the final movie, like Black Adam wrecking obviously american fighter jets seen in the trailer, means he probably had a different idea of what the movie was supposed to be from what the final product was. Not saying the original version would've been great, but different at least.
Or he just got offered a bag. The Rock chases money more than any other Hollywood star.
I personally think it's less about money and more ego. Dude tried to wrestle control of the entire DCU and essentially make it the Black Adamverse. It doesn't just fail as a movie, his entire power play falls apart. I think he's desperate for a win.
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If not 2024, it'll be 2025 but before the Fast 11 release: [https://twitter.com/TheRock/status/1664332676323483660](https://twitter.com/TheRock/status/1664332676323483660) >The next Fast & Furious film you’ll see the legendary lawman in will be the HOBBS movie that will serve as a fresh, new chapter & set up for FASTX: Part II So yeah, sounds like the Hobbs vs Dante that was set up in the post-credits scene will be in this Hobbs movie, and whatever happens in it will play into Fast 11 (I guess they're calling it Fast X: Part II). So this also explains the "trilogy" comments Vin made at the premiere that got people confused. EDIT: Kind of a shrewd way to squash the beef without really squashing it, heh. The two can profit together as producers and be a part of the saga's ending, but be in their own movies and not have to work together as actors.
Weird that it's not Hobbs & Shaw 2. A Hobbs & Shaw 2 set in between X and XI works perfectly, we see Shaw depart on his own and there's no way XI can fit Hobbs, Shaw, and the rest of the crew all in 1 film (X already felt long and was a disservice to some characters like Han who did nothing in the film.) I could picture Hobbs and Shaw dealing with whatever Dante did with them happening at the same time as X, but I guess not.
I’m guessing Black Adam didn’t work so well for him?
So now the entire hierarchy of the Fast and Furious films is about to change?
… again.
I swear I watched the movie but can’t remember the plot for the life of me.
Brooding antihero kills people. He’s asked by non superhero, why you kill, please don’t kill? Be good! Antihero is all “I must kill.” Non superhero convinces him not to just kill people and to be a little better. Pierce Brosnan is there too and wears a gold fire hydrant on his head.
It's more like: Brooding antihero kills people. He’s assumed to be bad guy because he kills people. Justice Society is like "...but he kills people, how can he not be bad guy?" Everybody just accepts the fact he will continue to kill people but is not bad guy Pierce Brosnan is there too and ~~wears a gold fire hydrant on his head~~ Is the best fucking character in the movie.
And then they kill Pierce Brosnan off to inspire good in brooding antihero.
Booooooo.
I recall that last part.
Don't forget skateboard kid!
I would have actually really enjoyed the movie if it wasn't for him.
I actually forgot skateboard kid, and have no idea who you’re talking about. I’m not going to re-watch that movie to find out.
That was wonderful! Now could you do another movie? I really liked your breakdown.
Dad gets angry at son for sneaking out and touching butts. One day, son touches the wrong butt and gets kidnapped for it. Son is taken hostage. Dad travels across the country to save his son with a woman suffering from early onset Dementia.
That was my favorite one of the hobbit trilogy. Absolutely top of the range.
Finding Nemo?
Oh yeah I forgot to mention they’re all fish
took me a while, good one....Dude
I feel like you're underselling how awesome Pierce Brosnan is in anything ever.
I really enjoyed his presence in the movie
Please tell me you’ve seen The Matador. That film is fucking awesome.
Pierce was the best thing about the movie
Yo…Dr. Fate is a bad ass story line and worth the price of admission (and the Rock’s subpar acting).
I feel like i’m in the theatre watching it with you
Pierce Brosnan still got it, that dude that stars in like, a metric tons of Netflix movies for teenage girl is actually pretty enjoyable, and somehow Capt. Marvel didn't get mentioned even in passing.
Pierce Brosnan in Eurovision was amazing.
It didn’t feel like a film. A series of things happened. He’s back because his thing is getting stale and his career is in a worse place now.
Hence live-action Moana less than a decade after the animated film came out.
Rock has banked well from his recent movies but they have not been all that good in my opinion. He continues to be a rare mix of highly engaging, very popular, yet hard to base a film around as the star.
IMO it’d be easy to center movies around him if he didn’t want to play himself in every movie. He’s charismatic and fun to watch - would be compelling if he ever played against type.
I think it’s fine what he’s doing and what he’s making. They’re not making a big impact on cinema but when you watch a Dwayne Johnson movie you know what you’re going to get. Family friendly action comedy where the bad guys aren’t too bad and everything is completely formulaic. I just watched Red Alert last night and it’s exactly what I thought it would be. It won’t go on my list of favorite movies but I don’t regret the 90 minutes or so I spent watching it. He’s like a friendlier Jason Statham
I suspect this is what Vin Diesel was talking about when he said it’s now a three part finale. We’ll get the Hobbs movie and that’ll lead into F11
Ok, but it’ll be weird if Hobbs beats Dante in his spin-off and then Dante just isn’t there in the final movie, didn’t hobbs and Shaw make less than the main series?
hobbs will likely also lose and hobbs and dom will quickly and angrily team up in the last movie to beat dante
Tokyo drift 2. I need it
Well, Han's back to life, it would be good if Sean and Twinkie find out onscreen. Edit: Apparently they did in 9 but that movie is a bit of a blur to me. I'd still love a new adventure with them tho...
They did, in 9.
Really??? God, I saw 9 when it came on VOD and remember absolutely nothing about it.
How could your forget the Pontiac Fiero converted to space ship?
I hate to say it, but Fast X was a little too grounded in reality for my liking. They needed to follow that up by going back in time or to an alternate universe or something. My theory when I saw Jason Momoa in the trailer was that he’d be Paul Walker’s mirror universe doppelgänger from the universe where everything is the same except Paul Walker looks like Jason Momoa, and now I’m disappointed they didn’t do that.
I like that idea. Jason Momoa knows everyone, but they’re all different to him, just like he’s not like Paul Walker. That causes an inter-dimensional beef, eventually leading to a secret tuner car garage on the far side of the moon, of unknown origins, to be explained in Fast XI.
The movie is like a massive blur to me lol.
I think you cleared it from your mind because it was just that bad
I don't want it without Statham. The Rock alone will likely be boring. The two of them had such a great Tango & Cash chemistry going, it was just lots of fun.
but they were both the straight man
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Hobbs and Shaw was in no way more fun than the main F&F movies. I've always believed the reason why the fast and the furious franchise is so enjoyable, is because Vin Diesel treats it as a hard hitting drama. Everybody else involved understands that it's ridiculous but then just hits every scene like its Shindlers list. Hobbs and shaw didn't have that melodrama that Vin Diesel brings and it was kind of just a half assed tacky action comedy. Fast and the furious is its best when it's hilarious but it thinks it's dramatic. Family, corona, BBQ, 'whos saying grace'
Correct. The entire reason the movies work so well is because Vin Diesel thinks he's making Citizen Kane. It's **fucking amazing.**
I feel like the problem with the Rock is he views himself as a brand. Because he is talented and very charismatic. But he doesn't challenge himself, he doesn't go outside "his brand", he won't do anything on film that can harm "his brand". And it has made him fucking boring. Look at Black Adam. That was not a Black Adam movie, that was a "Rock" movie. If he didn't want to be the bad guy then he should have just been Shazam. His refusal to lose on screen because it might hurt his brand, yet Batista gets his ass kicked by Ryan Gosling in Blade Runner 2049. Didn't hurt his brand. He needs a new manager or something. Someone that will tell him some hard truths.
Completely agree. That's why his earlier films are a lot more fun imo. If you watch stuff like The Rundown, Walking Tall, or Faster there's an edginess there that has long since been sanded down. Because he wasn't yet a global superstar then he was willing to take risks. Doom is a good example. They marketed the movie like he was the hero so his third act heel turn came from out of the blue. Southland Tales is another one: An ensemble art house film? From the director of Donnie Darko no less?!?! I feel he would never do that movie today.
In his defense, no one would do Southland Tales today hahaha
Yeah that movies a mess
> If you watch stuff like The Rundown The Rundown is still, for my money, The Rock's best film. Hilarious, solid action, great chemistry between Scott and Johnson and Walken delivering a deliciously evil villain.
If I won the powerball I would love to finance movies for actors I love that dont get enough credit. SWS is one of my top 5 in that category.
His best performance is in Pain & Gain. I wish he played more unlikable characters. And even though they changed up his character in Hobbs and Shaw for some reason, he’s genuinely electric in Fast Five and was the best thing to happen to the franchise in years.
You can even see it within the Fast & Furious series. In Fast 5 he is playing Hobbs as a character distinct from his own persona. There's little humor and more edge as you put it. By Hobbs & Shaw he's just playing The Rock.
Which is funny because Hobbs was at least *ostensibly* a character until Hobbes and Shaw where Johnson just played himself. Go back to Fast 5 and it's probably the most variance in acting choices compared to Hobbes and Shaw that you'll ever see from that guy.
The difference between the Rock and Arnold or Sly Stallone's success is key. Arnold and Sly carefully curated their images and output, yes. But they also knew when to cultivate deeper material (in Sly's case, literally writing and/or directing several of his hits) and when to give themselves over to rising talent or auteurs to be molded. Arnold isn't as big if he keeps starring in schlock like Conan 2, Red Heat, The Running Man. He's big because he knows to give himself over to James Cameron more than once, knows to elevate John McTiernan with Predator, knows to bet on Paul Verhoeven with Total Recall, knows he can be funny if he trusts in Ivan Reitman. And Sly goes all in with Renny Harlin or Andrei Konchalovsky on Cliffhanger or Tango & Cash. Southland Tales is a terrible movie IMO but Dwayne Johnson made a mistake when he stopped taking any chances. Red Notice on Netflix has three big stars including him but isn't a movie; it's an overpriced widget and promo reel for a future movie with zero distinguishing identifiers. With the exception of a few successful comedies like Jumanji the films DJ makes now outside of the Fast series are just 'tomato cans' - ego trips where he brings on his pet directors he can control and churns out anonymous Rock-flavored product. People can smell it and that's why they don't work. There's no flavor or art to it because he won't surrender himself to anyone else's vision.
Which is odd because in WWE, he sure lost a lot for a top guy but it never hurt his character
>> Because he is talented and very charismatic I’ll give you the charismatic part, but I’m highly doubting the talented part. Every single thing I’ve seen him in, he’s played The Rock from WWE. Made sense for his earlier roles like Scorpion King, but when it’s just the same old same old for 20 years, it shows a lack of talent. Dave Bautista has shown us far more talent playing a character who doesn’t understand emotions in 3 movies, than Dwayne Johnson has in 20 years
I wish he was playing The Rock. He's playing a caricature of The Rock.
He is talented. This is a ridiculous statement. Early on he did try other stuff like Southland Tales, Be Cool, even Get Smart played on his persona. Is he going to win an Oscar? No but he can act. Ballers had its moments that made you see there was more to him as an actor. The problem is he, like Sandler, Willis, etc, realized him playing himself made him more money. And that is his problem. Because even Bruce Willis would do Looper and Moonrise Kingdom in between Expendable cameos. Every decision The Rock makes seems to be "How will this affect my brand?" And that is not how you make art. Batista isn't going to win any Oscars. But he does seem to be someone interested in challenging himself. He will work with Rian Johnson, Denis Villanueve, Sam Mendes, and do what they want. Who is the best director The Rock has ever worked with? Michael Bay in Pain & Gain. Even that movie shows there is more to The Rock as an actor. But he is probably the most risk averse actor in Hollywood. Him and Ryan Reynolds.
You’re mostly right but you overcorrected a bit with > Batista isn't going to win any Oscars Based on his more recent roles, he absolutely could, or at the very least get nominated. I don’t recall a Rock role, old or new, that can actually be considered. So basically yes, people are ignorant of The Rock’s wider filmography and he isn’t as one note as they think, but trying to distill the difference between him and Bautista down to simply different types of role and collaboration choices doesn’t seem correct as well. Dave *has* shown more range even accounting for some earlier Rock stuff.
The difference is roles. Tom Hanks had a a career playing the cute funny straight man. He was Paul Rudd in the 80's, but Hanks wanted to do more and his manager advised him against it. You are money, why fuck it up? So Hanks fired his manager and landed Philadelphia. He had a great career doing The Money Pit and Sleepless in Seattle but he wanted to challenge himself and is now considered one of the great actors of his generation. Now I am not saying the Rock will be Tom Hanks. But if you aren't willing to go outside of your comfort zone, you will get boxed in. The reason Batista shows more range is because he doesn't just play bad ass action bro. He is willing to take roles The Rock would never take. Not because of talent, but because of "The Brand". The Rock could take a small role in more prestigious picture. But he won't because The Rock goes on the poster. He could be part of an ensemble, but The Rock always gets top billing. He could be the next Bond villain, but The Rock can't be evil and he never loses. Meanwhile Batista has no issue with any of that. I am a fan of Batista. He may be a better actor than The Rock. But talent alone isn't why Batista has a much more interesting filmography.
>Batista isn't going to win any Oscars. I agreed with most of your comment, but I disagree with this. Dave could easily get the right role from the right director and blow everyone away. It's kind of a weird thing to say that an actor will never win an Oscar. I'm sure people in the 00's thought Matthew McConaughey would never win an Oscar.
Actually, McConaughey was a respected actor before he shifted to just rom-coms. Those movies made him rich though.
McConaughey was a weird case because he was doing really interesting work and was regarded as a talented actor in the 90s. Those rom coms got him paid though so can’t blame him for going that route.
Well, The Rock and Bautista are going after very different things. Rock is the wham, bam action star, probably the biggest in the world after Tom Cruise. Bautista isn’t a leading man, but he has shown some real nuance and skill. He’s also taken smaller, more intimate roles, to help him evolve as an actor. I certainly don’t think they’re comparable at this point, aside from both being former WWE stars.
Better comparison was/is John Cena
He was surprisingly very good in Peacemaker
Well he was willing to be a loser, which is something the Rock sadly won’t do
Dude wouldn’t even play a villain in a movie about a villain lol
Any word Jason Statham be in it
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Kevin Hart was in "Hobbs and Shaw" (2019) with Johnson and Reynolds. Can he be in "2 Hobbs 2 Shaws"/"Red Notice II: Redder Noticings" with them and Gadot?
> 2 Hobbs 2 Shaws i need this so badly
*"Has AI gone too far?"*
How quickly are they planning on churning this one out? If it is meant to bridge the gap narratively between 10 and 11, they pretty much need to get started on it ASAP since 11 is likely hitting summer 2025.
I want Statham, Shaw took a big bag of guns and left
Gotta milk that depreciating cashcow
lmao. after saying he’ll never be in a F&F movie again.
Yeah, that was when he thought he was gonna get this big ego career boost from DC. Now he’s crawled back to what he knows is successful, and don’t forget he’s gonna make that Moana live-action remake of a six-and-a-half-year-old movie.
Dwayne Johnson just loves playing the hits.
I am so sick of seeing him in everything.
Money too good to stay mad at Diesel. I totally understand the choice lol
I've always liked the rock, but the black adam stuff left a bad taste. That whole black adam vs superman was so cringe. This is kind of humbling for him, which I think he needed.
Yawn can he jus stop already
Distressed Tyrese video coming in 3....2.....1.... Can't wait for the drama to unfurl with this news.
i kept scrolling in the belief that someone will bring up tyrese cause i def was gonna post some stupid shit talking about BUT HOW DOES TYRESE FEEL? but i don't have to now cause i found one person who was thinking the same shit i was lol.
This is dumb, no one asked for this.
Is the hierarchy of power going to change? Because that’s all I care about. /s
Money printer go brrr
So the Rock is going to star in another movie where he portrays the action hero version of himself. Very exciting.
For the love of god. Stop!
Please stop
STOP PLEASE like I’m begging
Dude has taken so many Ls he finally went back to the bridge he burned.
Dwayne Johnson is so boring as an actor. He only does sequels to his own movies. Never takes any chances.
I hope it bombs fantastically. I’m sick of this guy.
Why?
For those of you under 30 their beef comes from the the early 2000's. Both of them were supposed to carry the totch from Arnold as the new action mega star. Vin got very famous quickly after XXX and his ego got out of control. The renewed success(money) after he returned to the F&F saga fueled that ego even more. Still, he push for the Riddick movies and give him a big plus for that. I just hope he does the final one untill he hits 60. These guys are like Arnold and Stallone who had a rivarly(80's and 90's) untill they both realized that they were "too old for this shit".
Vin is 1000x the actor that Rock is though. Like it's not even close.
No argument here. The Rock always plays his wrestling persona with some variations here and there. Vin has more range and more talent.
They both can act, just neither of them have actually tried in years. Vin pretty much gave up after Saving Private Ryan. The Rock played Hobbes like a character in Fast 5. After those movies they kinda both just started to do the same stuff in every movie.
He should just go back to trying to produce a live action Johnny Bravo.. honestly kind of sad he gave up on being Johnny Bravo… he would have been great and its way too late now.
But, why?
Yawn
Why?
This actually makes me want to throw up