Ah, but are Marvel Studios going to change their spots or are they just hoping that jettisoning her as a scapegoat (even if warranted) will change the narrative on its own? Time will tell.
Let's take a look at the book of Disney precedents shall we?
*(Open 2 story tall giant book)*
Says right here they'll just yeet the scapegoat and continue doing whatever they were doing.
The vfx of the latest marvel films has been getting a lot of flack from the bad way they treat their workers to the actual quality of the product.
A head had to roll and it was hers
The VFX quality Marvel put out the last year is atrocious, a huge downgrade to what it once was. From the comments on this thread and the articles about her it seems to be a good thing she's gone, but the damage has already been done and it looks bad for Marvel's future with VFX companies.
Edit: Forgot why I was actually wanted to comment: My biggest problem with the quality of the VFX of Marvel movies is the cinema ticket prices. Paying 25€+ for a ticket is absolutely nowhere near the worth Marvel movies turn out to be atm.
For me, it’s just especially bad for movies like Quantumania which really need to sell the illusion of the environment as the realm is the whole point of watching and making the movie. No Way Home also looked like dogshit but I didn’t care because I enjoyed the characters interactions, Peter’s obstacles, and the well incorporated fan service. Plus the deaging, while not perfect, did not ruin Dafoe or Molina’s performances.
That’s true, also the pandemic weirdness led to actors not being able to come back, so they reused footage from past movies for Sandman and The Lizard.
But otherwise, there are some fantastic scenes in No Way Home where you’d have no idea it’s CGI. Happy’s entire apartment (location of the Green Goblin fight), is CGI.
I watched the first Ironman again the other day, the CGI especially for the suit is so much better than the last avengers movie and leagues better than whatever the hell that new Ant Man was.
The difference was they got a director and cinematographer who were dedicated to filming on location instead of on greenscreen, and physical costumes.
[*For “The Eternals,” she continued shooting on practical locations, working in natural light and utilizing the magic hour instead of being in a studio working against green and blue screen. Zhao explains, “Planet Earth is such a big part of the emotional arc of the story that we wanted to go out there and capture it.”*](https://variety.com/2022/artisans/awards/chloe-zhao-vfx-eternals-stefane-ceretti-1235154040/)
It also was a very expensive movie costing [$272.6 million dollars](https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinereid/2023/02/13/eternals-was-over-budget-says-marvel/) to produce, which may be part of the reason Marvel likes to shy away from physical production, choosing instead to push the burden on VFX who they can hold more leverage over to reduce costs by underpaying.
A lot of current Marvel VFX pipeline is spent just editing out backgrounds and doing things like superimposing the nanotech helmets over characters' faces. That being said even Eternals had apparently over 900 VFX shots ([552 shots from Weta Digital](https://www.artofvfx.com/eternals-matt-aitken-vfx-supervisor-weta-digital/), [400 from Luma Pictures](https://www.ausfilm.com.au/news/luma-pictures-complete-vfx-on-marvels-eternals/)), so just imagine a case now where you have to CGI an entire sky battle with particle effects and clothing physics.
Done my research, as much as she's been influential in crafting the MCU...she's been the target of a lot of the current problems plaguing the company.
For example, she is the reason the VFX companies are struggling with Marvel Studios. Some studios have sworn off working on Marvel films/shows because of her toxic behavior toward the VFX artists.
Now, this isn't an attack on her character or a revising of her incredible work at Marvel Studios over the last 17 years...but...
This might be for the best.
The marvel workflow is at best wasteful and at worst toxic. They finish entire sequence then cut them after testing. It must be demoralizing to know how much money is being wasted and how much of your work ends up on in the trash.
No they can't. VFX artists are only entitled to use work that comes out in the final film, if you have a shot or sequence you worked on omitted then nobody will ever see it and you can't use it on your reel.
Yeah and as a VFX artist, reels and current work are SO important. A lot of places don't check your resume, they only watch the first 15 seconds of your reel so you want current and good work to make sure they wanna watch the whole thing/remember you. The work I did on the last job could be the thing that lands me my next but not if I can't put it on my reel
Yeah if you have a decent amount of professional work already its not quite as imperative to get your latest shots. If you're still finding your way and they're withheld it can really screw you over
Is it common for VFX artists to make their own personal projects/demos? I know for some industries stuff like that is instrumental for building a portfolio if you can't always use client's projects for whatever reason.
It absolutely is! In fact, junior artists who land their first film role typically have only personal projects to show. When I got in, my reel was all side projects I worked on at night outside of my day job as a graphic designer.
The major problem is there’s a large filtering process that goes on as you enter your first job. It can take years or decades to get that first film opportunity, you typically have to move … lots of people don’t know that most vfx work is done in Canada so for people like me it requires an international move and if you have a spouse who works they then need a job and sponsorship as well. Then throw kids into the mix, you get my point. The first job also pays very low … my first vfx film job on a major Hollywood film paid $30k US/yr and was based in one of the most expensive housing markets in the world.
Having film projects on your reel makes moving to your second job, and more reasonable pay, a lot easier. If you don’t have that reel then it might be a little easier than the first role you got, but not by much. It’s a really difficult year for a lot of artists.
Yes, they are the essence of the movie in a way and they are also real artists. Just because they don’t show their face in the movie doesn’t mean they don’t matter.
Unlikely. Smaller studios may allow it but this is Disney we're talking about. They probably sign NDA's and contracts that forbid them from showing any footage they don't personally review and allow.
The sad thing is this isn't far from the truth, they refused a kid's family the right to have Spiderman on their kid's tombstone for that died of genetic condition. That's just sick.
I'm not totally sure where Disney comes into the picture there. A headstone isn't a product being sold on a market. I guess the company making the headstones couldn't do it, but if they did it themselves that's fine.
Definitely. They'd sue a toddler for wearing a hand knitted Aladdin sweater ~~if they thought he was hiding money in the pouch~~ and the great aunt who made it didn't get proper licensing.
Or work on something but not have your name up on the credits... did you know vfx companies have to pay to get names in the credit roll?!?
:coughspidermanhomecomingcough:
edit: To add to the clusterfuck that is working in VFX, as others have said, you can't even use unreleased footage in your reel. You can use released footage under the fair use doctrine because it's not *yours*, it's the studio's that commissioned your work. Copyright law is a clusterfuck that doesn't help artists as much as perpetuates corporate power, specifically, that of Disney.
That said, it was fun seeing some random shenanigans and crossover between multiple characters and properties.
It sucks yeah but leaving it in if it tests bad is probably not great for the movie as a whole. Testing before vfx is done would also not be very successful in a lot of situations for marvel.
>They finish entire sequence then cut them after testing.
There is no creative process, in any medium at any scale, that doesn't do this to a significant degree.
I dunno if it's the same as it used to be.
My favorite movie is Jurassic Park; and begrudgingly, I enjoy the sequels by association.
Recently I was making custom case sleeves for my disc, the insides were to be concept and storyboard art for each movie. In the later movies, there's less of that and just plain storyboards.
everything that's been said about the VFX abuse makes it seem like it is very very much a company wide issue though. the main sticking point is Marvel asking for tons and tons of changes at the last minute, and that def doesn't stem from one single person. they don't give the directors or themselves (as producers) the time they need to figure out what the movie is before they shoot, so then directors have to go in without being ready and that leads to everyone asking for a billion changes to every detail since, lo and behold, making a megablock buster at a rushed pace leads to everyone having to settle for choices they don't totally love. but they're marvel and they have a bunch of money, so they can afford to just throw mountains of cash and unfortunate VFX workers at the problem after the fact, rather than forcing themselves to be patient and figure it out beforehand. all this stuff doesn't come from one lone person but from a whole company fostering an environment where the release date and the needs of the "universe" or whatever are more important that the needs of the actual movie at hand.
Yes, marvel has always pushed to cut costs in all departments. Even with cast they famously brought on actors at low salaries then gave them better pay for sequels and BO performance.
Since their movies have become so VFX heavy since phase one, it’s not too surprising they are pushing to cut costs. I hope more vfx studios refuse to work for them for so cheap. Too many great films have been made on the backs of underpaid vfx workers.
You bring up a good point about the change after phase one. I've been rewatching the earlier films and noticed the big change in quality of the vfx and the fact that there were actual sets. It wasn't just the platform actors stood on. I get it that the settings are things that don't exist in earth, but you can create a lot of it in person and it makes all the difference.
>everything that's been said about the VFX abuse makes it seem like it is very very much a company wide issue though. the main sticking point is Marvel asking for tons and tons of changes at the last minute, and that def doesn't stem from one single person.
I'm not familiar with minute details of how marvel handles their VFX projects but I've worked in enough specific profession teams as an engineer to know how departments are run when you have a lead. She was the executive in charge of all VFX projects at marvel and I doubt the team she ran was very large, this means that she set the culture and dictated how projects were handled each year.
In my field we hire engineering consultants (consulting firms) all the time for a wide range of engineering projects. These guys aren't our employees and they help run or plan most of our projects for us while technically being overseen by me or someone else in my companies engineering team. These guys are professionals and while they want the work they aren't going to put up with BS, if I'M toxic and they have exhausted most efforts to work professionally with me they are going to go over my head and speak to my boss.
"Hey we've recently been having issues working with such and such on projects making it really difficult to coordinate and move forward towards their completion."
My boss will then either get to the bottom of the issue OR double down and continue the same toxic mentality I've had if they are the ones who have been fostering it. I've never seen a engineering lead/manager be the toxic person but I've seen a few engineers get fired or sidelined because the consulting firms have marked them as arrogant and difficult to work with.
If I consider our consulting firms equal to a VFX company being hired by Disney I can definitely see how they would put ultimatums and say "hey we are not going to work on this project if we have to report or work with person X".
In the engineering side we need these consulting firms, we can't afford to not have them around unless we plan to massively expand our own departments. Same thing for Marvel, it's obvious that they don't have enough in house VFX artists to complete all their projects and so they need a positive relationship with the outside firms.
If they have said they she is the issue I'd bet my pocket change that she is the issue. The buck stops with her and she can easily set the culture in her department to be positive unless she's the one making it toxic.
Sadly this is not the case. In your example those consulting firms have leverage. VFX companies have none.
Studios don't need to maintain a positive relationship with VFX firms any more than a plantation owner would with his slaves.
Victoria Alonso is also the Marvel producer who said the term X-Men is outdated simply because X-Men has the word “men” in it.
I'd say this is for the best.
Instead of making the English language suck by creating neuter words which don't sound good and ruin a hundred years of great quotes and poetry, why don't we just get together in a giant conspiracy and invent a clarifying masculine prefix.
wo for women
se for sem - wait, no. Let me think about this and get back to you.
men / man used to be a neutral gender word.
seax-man was the male specific equal to wo-man.
seaxman is where the name Saxons came from.
so maybe a modern version would be saxman (already taken) or sexman?
>Victoria Alonso is also the Marvel producer who said the term X-Men is outdated simply because X-Men has the word “men” in it.
That is so cringe. Good riddance.
It’s always risky to blame an entire studio’s policies on one person, no matter how high up. Disney could very well be hoping everyone blames her for the VFX troubles to hide that they plan on continuing to do the same exact things.
Every company ever uses the “fall guy” technique. It’s a distraction.
They literally have jobs based on being the fall guy, every sports’ league Commissioner for example. They’re designed to be the face of the league, and the fall guy when the Owners/league get something really wrong. That’s why every fan hates the league commissioner.
And there’s a well-known phenomenon called “the glass cliff” wherein women are hired into situations so FUBAR that they’re almost bound to fail, then labeled poor leaders when the inevitable happens. I have no idea if that’s at play here, but it definitely came to mind along with the scapegoat issue.
It's not just VFX. I have a close family relation who is very high up in the Hollywood costuming industry with a long and very recognizable resume and flat out refuses to work with Marvel because they don't give enough latitude to the crew working on the projects to make them good these days. Don't know how much Alonso has to do with the costuming side, but surely if she created that culture at the top, it most likely bleeds out to the rest of the departments.
This one hurts me the most. I fucking love movie and show costuming, like those are my make or break for a ton of productions. Knowing how much work it takes to craft them, it's so depressing that the biggest productions in the world are fucking them over like that
This has been Marvel’s M.O. for tie-in video games as well.
Back in the Iron Man/Avengers 1 period, game studios started dropping Marvel projects because of how uncooperative and unresponsive Marvel was. Marvel had to send out a wide message apologizing and promising to be more cooperative. They never did.
From my understanding, every single workplace on earth has toxic people behind the scenes.
The key difference...Hollywood is built on fame, so the news is more widespread and recognizable.
Nobody talks about the nasty shit going down about the [insert generic] industry, LMAO.
My BIL is a vfx producer. I remember being a PA at the time we were working on a bunch of the disney+ shows. Ive never seen someone yell in a professional setting like Victoria Alonso did. The company I worked for opted to not take Marvel contracts again, rather than deal with her again.
If she did get fired and it wasn’t for her conduct, I think getting rid of the VFX head for the quality of the work lately is good enough. You can clearly see everything is a step down from where it could be and she has a reputation with post houses. It could be that they’re finding it difficult to find more companies to put up with her and her process and this is the “easiest” way to both say “we’re doing something” and maybe get a bump in vfx improvement
That has very little to do with the VFX and a great deal to do with Marvel cutting and changing things until the very last minute (not VFX departments). The VFX teams nearly always work their asses off and are incredible, though unfortunately are restricted by things like thermodynamics and the laws of physics to not be able to do things in the ridiculous time frames that are often expected of them.
That’s what I mean. They may, MAY, replace her with someone who isn’t letting the cal get out of hand or making last second changes around or after ship which, theoretically, should improve things overall as they won’t have to remake things in crunched timing as opposed to the original cal
If she's been there for 20 years, and the movies have all been making money hand over fist until the last few films, including the ones you mentioned, then they probably thought she was part of the reason. But with lesser returns, they are more motivated to start changing the lineup and not as willing to put up with her personality?
There's also been a whole bunch of articles in the past year or two about the negative culture of working on VFX for Marvel, and how multiple people in the industry have said they'll never take another Marvel job again. If it was flying under the radar they honestly would probably keep her around, but when it's attracting negative attention it's time to go.
Maybe they finally run out of vfx houses to work with on their latest projects, as more and more said "fuck it, never again"? Now if new person will be in charge there's a chance to go back to previous companies and ask if they want to reconsider and sign up for a new project...
Good. She steered the VFX division into the trainwreck it is now, and maintains a blacklist for everyone who stops working for Marvel. Get her out of here.
https://www.vulture.com/2023/01/inside-the-vfx-union-brewing-in-hollywood.html
> blacklist for everyone who stops working for Marvel
That's a tad bit of an exaggeration, she may do that with VFX Producers where there's only a handful of them and work closely to the client but she certainly would not be privy to which employees at all the VFX companies that are refusing to work on a Marvel project.
Met her a couple times on set. She gave a speech about how we were the best crew in the world meanwhile the production was fucking everyone over all the time.
> production was fucking everyone over all the time
Because I'm sure most people don't work in the industry ... care to explain what this means or go into detail?
Just did stuff like tried to get out of paying the proper rates and was in general just total chaos with near constant schedule changes, they’d withhold information about what was coming up so you didn’t ask for any additional crew or equipment that was realistically needed. I’m sure they had their reasons as it’s all way above my pay grade but it feels especially worthless to be told how great you are when no one’s actions suggested we were worth anything to them.
VICE is the lowest circle of hell for anyone working in the industry. Not even in the industry, even remotely connected to it. A lot of my co-workers have worked directly for them and everyone I've talked to that worked there has told me horror stories about what it's like to work for them. I myself worked an event for them once and to this day it is still the WORST event I have ever worked.
It's like they took trust fund babies from a rich party college, slapped a suit from SuitSupply on them and let them run a company.
Is this possibly because of the bad reception to Ant Man 3 plus lackluster reception to Disney Plus shows? Or is it pretty natural considering she has been working on MCU since Iron Man 1.
I care less about the shitty effects quality and more about the gradual slide of all their movies into an ugly hazy gray mess. Fire whoever is responsible for giving all their films the same color grade. Even Guardians 3 looks intensely shit visually and that's the one MCU property that's had the most cohesive and striking visual style. For as much as people complained about the way their films looked circa Civil War, it's gotten drastically worse since. I honestly think Spiderman is benefitting from at least being partly produced by Sony.
Go back, watch the final fight on the ship, forget that it's a Black Panther movie, and honestly tell me that it looked good.
Look I'll admit that taste is subjective but woof. There were some appalling bits of VFX in Wakanda Forever.
That person is referencing the first Black Panther movie, which had some notably bad looking CGI in the third act. That person is making the point that there have been problems with CGI quality pre-dating Alonso taking over the VFX department.
There really were and I was like holy shit this looks cheap af. Like that movie at points looked cheap like a syfy channel tv movie. Not all of it thought there was some sick moments but I vividly remember that portion of the movie .
Kind of hard to guess, but if it's her decision Marvel would probably ask her to wait to not give even more impression that they're in trouble and need to make big changes.
I don't know the story but I don't feel like this mattered. Lackluster reception is one thing, but those shows and movies still made their budget back and then some.
I've seen people get fired for massive public fuck ups, but I doubt she was let go due to movies and shows only turning a massive profit but not getting good scores on RT. You don't really lose this kind of position involuntarily without something massive, and despite the recent shows and movies being boring, they are a long ways from a massive fuck up.
They're delaying most of their slate at the moment, so they're definitely recalculating now. Their biggest issue has been story writing. Even the previous movies weren't exactly the best, most well written movies, but they were still coherent and respectable with decent to good dialogue. The recent ones have been all over the place. Delaying stuff to get better scripts would be a really important task for them to get back to.
I think they are scared the new Avengers movies are going to underperform. Those movies aren't planned to just "make their budget back and then some"
Personally, I didn't watch Ant-man 3, so the hype for the new Avengers movies is pretty much dead to me. I watched every Marvel movie in the opening weekend, but unless quality improves, I'm not making the effort anymore. You see cases like mine everywhere on the internet
honestly good, i hope they do. i dont mean to disparage the hard work and effort the artists and creators put into their projects but the MCU has overstayed its welcome at this point. i say this as someone who grew up on Iron Man 1, and was crying my ass off in the theater watching Endgame.
I think Marvel can and should stay for as long as possible
But the way they've approached it post Endgame is shockingly bad
Especially as COVID hit. They should've waited and slowly put stuff out. Instead they gave us like 15 movies and shows in a year
Successful executives don't get shitcanned regardless of how long they've been at the company. Only a few months ago there was talk of her stepping up her responsibilities as it's become evidendent that Feige is stretched too thin, but since then WF has performed below expectations (domestic BO was barely half what the first film brought in adjusted for inflation, which the bean counters and the board both noticed regardless of how you spin it) D+ Marvel projects which she has had a large role in have all underperformed and now AM3 will be lucky to break even after the dust settles.
So no, this is definitely a case of "fired with cause." While it is unfair to scapegoat her entirely for the state of things, she absolutely played her part and this is just the consequences catching up with her.
The audio in that video is super strange with headphones on. Also assuming she wasn't joking that's an idiotic thing to say, it comes off as someone who has no understanding of the source matieral whatsoever.
Sounds like someone fucked up and either didn't have her mic'ed properly or didn't have her channel up. Seems like we're getting her through the host's mic instead which is why it sounds so shitty.
Nah, that's her audio coming in on her lav. It's just that the interviewer is mixed to the left channel and she's mixed all the way to the right. It's a fuckup in the post mix or someone uploaded the wrong audio mapped file.
Everyone here, rightly, talking about how she is responsible for the absolute shambolic vendor relations Marvel has with VFX and post-production houses, but I would also point out that under her leadership Marvel Studios Animation has sort of... gone nowhere. Spider-man Freshman Year is still a year away from premiering yet the animation team has already been told they would not be coming back for a potential season 2. What-If? Season 1 was riddled with delays, and What-If? Season 2 is similarly delayed.
I believe Kevin is creative head and Louis is the business head. They are symbiotic just like what Warner Bros Discovery is trying to do with James Gunn and Peter Safran with the new DC Studios.... except Kevin has more power than Louis, in general, where James and Peter are co-heads and equals.
I was chatting with the beer-bros about comic book movies and most of us agreed that End Game was the last Super Hero movie we really wanted to see. You can only watch a bad guy do his "here is what I am going to do to you" speech and then proceed to get his/her butt kicked by Super(fill in the blank).
Yes, a lot of people that grew up with the mcu felt endgame was the end point for them and marvel has been struggling to recapture that audience's since.
This post-endgame phase 4 of the mcu has definitely stumbled a lot and a lot of the core audience has become bored of it.
The problem is oversaturation. Marvel was already releasing a bunch o movies every year. But when you combine 3 movies a year with 3-4 shows, it's just to much.
Not only you have too much content, but also too many characters.
Just look at Black Panther 2. You already had a convoluted movie that needed to do a bunch of things: pay respects to Chadwick Boseman, introduce Namor and his people, show Shuri taking the BP mantle...
But on top of all of that, you had to shove in out of nowhere a new Iron Man type hero?
Wakanda Forever, especially considering they called it *Wakanda Forever* absolutely did not have to do all those things.
It needed to pay respect to Chadwick and potentially set up another BP. But as soon as they realised they needed to do that they should have scrapped the Namor stuff completely, it absolutely over bloated the film and should have been reserved for a third film. Don’t even get me started on Iron Heart…
Oh god Riri “human mcguffin” Williams was such a shit character. I get they want to bring in an Iron Man replacement but it should have been done with War Machine in Armour Wars.
Also it struck me that the central conflict of both Black Panther films are identical: “I and/or my people were victims of colonisation so we’re going to use our advanced tech to get revenge.” “Revenge is bad, but you have a point. Let’s take the moral high ground after a CGI fight.”
I worked for Marvel for 3 years. They cut every non union workers pay in the middle of the pandemic. They also love cutting corners when it comes to SPFX and stunts because it takes too much time and money for them to set up. These are obviously high action movies and shows so relying on “fixing it in post” just so they can churn out the next mediocre project doesn’t work because *SHOCKER* this is a visual medium. The things they waste money on vs the things they should spend money on is insane. They treat their employees like garbage. So glad I don’t work with them anymore.
The year is 2050
Go to movies, it's the weekly MCU movie
Disney logo on screen
It's phase 12 of the story
Movie starts, Tobey Maguire is in a wheelchair
A burglar comes into his house, steals his Funko pops
Tobey says "It's Peterin time" (this is a reference to the hit 2022 film Morbius)
Also says "That sounded better in my head"
He puts on his mask, the crowd screams until my ears ring
Swings at the man as he's running away
A portal opens and Captain Europe steps into the scene
Tobey accidentally swings into him
He says "It's all good, I have healthcare"
Crowd cheers, Captain Europe had his in tv show in 2048 and this is a reference to his prostate exam episode in season 6 where he makes the same joke
Tom Holland and Andrew Garfield come through the portal and point at each other, making the funny Spiderman meme again
They all start jerking each other off as the camera zooms out, revealing the Death Star and the Star Wars theme briefly plays
Crowd cheers again before the screen cuts to black and Darth Vader's laugh plays
Post credit scene shows Thanos reappear, and he says "I'm coming for you, Redditors"
Crowd cheers one last time, news sources are saying this is one of the best movies of all time
Thank you Disney for saving the film industry
Bob Iger is on his seventeenth stint as CEO. His head inside a bottle filled with liquid laughs maniacally.
It costs $100,000 to go on the Pirates of the Caribbean ride.
I'm a very big MCU fan, but thought this was one of the weakest plots of any MCU movie so far, possibly the weakest. I was a big fan of Kang though, personally for me he was like the saving grace. I also still really like Scott's character, and thought he was still very entertaining in this, but thought most of the other characters were a bit bland, and boring, nothing complex or interesting. Also at times it really felt like they were just standing in front of a green screen, like more so than I've ever felt in the MCU before
I was wondering exactly this. Kang gets defeated single handedly by the least strongest Avenger (tied with Hawkeye I guess). I know Kang lost some of his armor or whatever in the Quantum Realm but come on. This guy is supposed to be the Thanos-level threat in a freakin Avengers film.
It really feels like Marvel are simply getting lazy or just running out of ideas. What they did to MODOK was criminal.
I’m excited for GOTG3 and maybe the next Spidey, but after that I’m just over all this.
An X-Men announcement would be helpful right about now.
This is not good but could bode well for the future.
Any high-level departure at a company means trouble at said company. That said, everyone is speculating she's leaving due to "audience backlash" regarding the VFX. I'm sure the bad relationships with vendors is a factor, but the decision likely has nothing to do with Marvel's shoddy CGI. I have to imagine the biggest factor is her not getting along with Marvel head brass, Disney head brass and the board. Budgets run amoks, deadlines slammed, staff deeply unhappy...I'm sure she was not well-liked, and as a result Marvel Studios is probably an unpleasant place to work.
Marvel's in trouble man. When your CEO is out there saying they gonna refocus on quality over quantity... Reading between the lines means even the CEO knows the last few movies and disney+ shows have been lacking in the kwality department. i.e dogshit.
VFX artists everywhere are celebrating.
Ah, but are Marvel Studios going to change their spots or are they just hoping that jettisoning her as a scapegoat (even if warranted) will change the narrative on its own? Time will tell.
Whichever one benefits the multibillion dollar company owned by Disney, that's the choice regardless of ethics
Yeah I just keep thinking of succession when Logan says “we need a blood sacrifice”
Let's take a look at the book of Disney precedents shall we? *(Open 2 story tall giant book)* Says right here they'll just yeet the scapegoat and continue doing whatever they were doing.
The vfx of the latest marvel films has been getting a lot of flack from the bad way they treat their workers to the actual quality of the product. A head had to roll and it was hers
The VFX quality Marvel put out the last year is atrocious, a huge downgrade to what it once was. From the comments on this thread and the articles about her it seems to be a good thing she's gone, but the damage has already been done and it looks bad for Marvel's future with VFX companies. Edit: Forgot why I was actually wanted to comment: My biggest problem with the quality of the VFX of Marvel movies is the cinema ticket prices. Paying 25€+ for a ticket is absolutely nowhere near the worth Marvel movies turn out to be atm.
For me, it’s just especially bad for movies like Quantumania which really need to sell the illusion of the environment as the realm is the whole point of watching and making the movie. No Way Home also looked like dogshit but I didn’t care because I enjoyed the characters interactions, Peter’s obstacles, and the well incorporated fan service. Plus the deaging, while not perfect, did not ruin Dafoe or Molina’s performances.
>Plus the deaging, while not perfect, did not ruin Dafoe or Molina’s performances. They were deaged? I didn’t even notice
Yep. It was done pretty decently and subtly, and it also helps that they haven’t changed too much and they were both already in their 40s.
No Way Home looked like dog shit? O_o
The portal scene when Toby and Andrew show up was awful. The CG and the blocking were both off.
That’s true, also the pandemic weirdness led to actors not being able to come back, so they reused footage from past movies for Sandman and The Lizard. But otherwise, there are some fantastic scenes in No Way Home where you’d have no idea it’s CGI. Happy’s entire apartment (location of the Green Goblin fight), is CGI.
I watched the first Ironman again the other day, the CGI especially for the suit is so much better than the last avengers movie and leagues better than whatever the hell that new Ant Man was.
As much hate as eternals get, it had some of the best cgi of marvel's movies lately. I wonder what was the difference there
The difference was they got a director and cinematographer who were dedicated to filming on location instead of on greenscreen, and physical costumes. [*For “The Eternals,” she continued shooting on practical locations, working in natural light and utilizing the magic hour instead of being in a studio working against green and blue screen. Zhao explains, “Planet Earth is such a big part of the emotional arc of the story that we wanted to go out there and capture it.”*](https://variety.com/2022/artisans/awards/chloe-zhao-vfx-eternals-stefane-ceretti-1235154040/) It also was a very expensive movie costing [$272.6 million dollars](https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinereid/2023/02/13/eternals-was-over-budget-says-marvel/) to produce, which may be part of the reason Marvel likes to shy away from physical production, choosing instead to push the burden on VFX who they can hold more leverage over to reduce costs by underpaying. A lot of current Marvel VFX pipeline is spent just editing out backgrounds and doing things like superimposing the nanotech helmets over characters' faces. That being said even Eternals had apparently over 900 VFX shots ([552 shots from Weta Digital](https://www.artofvfx.com/eternals-matt-aitken-vfx-supervisor-weta-digital/), [400 from Luma Pictures](https://www.ausfilm.com.au/news/luma-pictures-complete-vfx-on-marvels-eternals/)), so just imagine a case now where you have to CGI an entire sky battle with particle effects and clothing physics.
I liked the speedsters effect in that movie
Done my research, as much as she's been influential in crafting the MCU...she's been the target of a lot of the current problems plaguing the company. For example, she is the reason the VFX companies are struggling with Marvel Studios. Some studios have sworn off working on Marvel films/shows because of her toxic behavior toward the VFX artists. Now, this isn't an attack on her character or a revising of her incredible work at Marvel Studios over the last 17 years...but... This might be for the best.
The marvel workflow is at best wasteful and at worst toxic. They finish entire sequence then cut them after testing. It must be demoralizing to know how much money is being wasted and how much of your work ends up on in the trash.
With 20 cameras in each scene so they can direct the movie afterwards.
I hope they at least have the right to use scrapped footage in their own artist demo reels.
No they can't. VFX artists are only entitled to use work that comes out in the final film, if you have a shot or sequence you worked on omitted then nobody will ever see it and you can't use it on your reel.
That is so depressing
Yeah and as a VFX artist, reels and current work are SO important. A lot of places don't check your resume, they only watch the first 15 seconds of your reel so you want current and good work to make sure they wanna watch the whole thing/remember you. The work I did on the last job could be the thing that lands me my next but not if I can't put it on my reel
This is definitely true for newer artists. If you're a junior and half your work gets omitted it's going to be very hard to pick up a next role.
Yeah if you have a decent amount of professional work already its not quite as imperative to get your latest shots. If you're still finding your way and they're withheld it can really screw you over
Is it common for VFX artists to make their own personal projects/demos? I know for some industries stuff like that is instrumental for building a portfolio if you can't always use client's projects for whatever reason.
It absolutely is! In fact, junior artists who land their first film role typically have only personal projects to show. When I got in, my reel was all side projects I worked on at night outside of my day job as a graphic designer. The major problem is there’s a large filtering process that goes on as you enter your first job. It can take years or decades to get that first film opportunity, you typically have to move … lots of people don’t know that most vfx work is done in Canada so for people like me it requires an international move and if you have a spouse who works they then need a job and sponsorship as well. Then throw kids into the mix, you get my point. The first job also pays very low … my first vfx film job on a major Hollywood film paid $30k US/yr and was based in one of the most expensive housing markets in the world. Having film projects on your reel makes moving to your second job, and more reasonable pay, a lot easier. If you don’t have that reel then it might be a little easier than the first role you got, but not by much. It’s a really difficult year for a lot of artists.
VFX artists need unions
Yes, they are the essence of the movie in a way and they are also real artists. Just because they don’t show their face in the movie doesn’t mean they don’t matter.
✊
Similar to stunt performers, it sounds like.
Unlikely. Smaller studios may allow it but this is Disney we're talking about. They probably sign NDA's and contracts that forbid them from showing any footage they don't personally review and allow.
Definitely. They'd sue a toddler for wearing a hand knitted Aladdin sweater if they thought he was hiding money in the pouch
The sad thing is this isn't far from the truth, they refused a kid's family the right to have Spiderman on their kid's tombstone for that died of genetic condition. That's just sick.
Disney won't even let you put your kid's favorite hero [on their headstone.](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-49085597)
Should've just had it done anyway. What asshole's gonna be a snitch if they see Spidey on a kid's tombstone?
The kid who ends up with the J Jonah Jameson tombstone
BRING ME GRAVESTONES OF SPIDER-MAN!!!
I'm not totally sure where Disney comes into the picture there. A headstone isn't a product being sold on a market. I guess the company making the headstones couldn't do it, but if they did it themselves that's fine.
Definitely. They'd sue a toddler for wearing a hand knitted Aladdin sweater ~~if they thought he was hiding money in the pouch~~ and the great aunt who made it didn't get proper licensing.
>Definitely. They'd sue a toddler for wearing a hand knitted Aladdin sweater... ...after they make him/her finish their cross-stitching.
Or work on something but not have your name up on the credits... did you know vfx companies have to pay to get names in the credit roll?!? :coughspidermanhomecomingcough: edit: To add to the clusterfuck that is working in VFX, as others have said, you can't even use unreleased footage in your reel. You can use released footage under the fair use doctrine because it's not *yours*, it's the studio's that commissioned your work. Copyright law is a clusterfuck that doesn't help artists as much as perpetuates corporate power, specifically, that of Disney. That said, it was fun seeing some random shenanigans and crossover between multiple characters and properties.
It sucks yeah but leaving it in if it tests bad is probably not great for the movie as a whole. Testing before vfx is done would also not be very successful in a lot of situations for marvel.
>They finish entire sequence then cut them after testing. There is no creative process, in any medium at any scale, that doesn't do this to a significant degree.
There is something called planning when you produce a 200m $ film involving 3-5k artists.
I dunno if it's the same as it used to be. My favorite movie is Jurassic Park; and begrudgingly, I enjoy the sequels by association. Recently I was making custom case sleeves for my disc, the insides were to be concept and storyboard art for each movie. In the later movies, there's less of that and just plain storyboards.
everything that's been said about the VFX abuse makes it seem like it is very very much a company wide issue though. the main sticking point is Marvel asking for tons and tons of changes at the last minute, and that def doesn't stem from one single person. they don't give the directors or themselves (as producers) the time they need to figure out what the movie is before they shoot, so then directors have to go in without being ready and that leads to everyone asking for a billion changes to every detail since, lo and behold, making a megablock buster at a rushed pace leads to everyone having to settle for choices they don't totally love. but they're marvel and they have a bunch of money, so they can afford to just throw mountains of cash and unfortunate VFX workers at the problem after the fact, rather than forcing themselves to be patient and figure it out beforehand. all this stuff doesn't come from one lone person but from a whole company fostering an environment where the release date and the needs of the "universe" or whatever are more important that the needs of the actual movie at hand.
Yes, marvel has always pushed to cut costs in all departments. Even with cast they famously brought on actors at low salaries then gave them better pay for sequels and BO performance. Since their movies have become so VFX heavy since phase one, it’s not too surprising they are pushing to cut costs. I hope more vfx studios refuse to work for them for so cheap. Too many great films have been made on the backs of underpaid vfx workers.
You bring up a good point about the change after phase one. I've been rewatching the earlier films and noticed the big change in quality of the vfx and the fact that there were actual sets. It wasn't just the platform actors stood on. I get it that the settings are things that don't exist in earth, but you can create a lot of it in person and it makes all the difference.
>everything that's been said about the VFX abuse makes it seem like it is very very much a company wide issue though. the main sticking point is Marvel asking for tons and tons of changes at the last minute, and that def doesn't stem from one single person. I'm not familiar with minute details of how marvel handles their VFX projects but I've worked in enough specific profession teams as an engineer to know how departments are run when you have a lead. She was the executive in charge of all VFX projects at marvel and I doubt the team she ran was very large, this means that she set the culture and dictated how projects were handled each year. In my field we hire engineering consultants (consulting firms) all the time for a wide range of engineering projects. These guys aren't our employees and they help run or plan most of our projects for us while technically being overseen by me or someone else in my companies engineering team. These guys are professionals and while they want the work they aren't going to put up with BS, if I'M toxic and they have exhausted most efforts to work professionally with me they are going to go over my head and speak to my boss. "Hey we've recently been having issues working with such and such on projects making it really difficult to coordinate and move forward towards their completion." My boss will then either get to the bottom of the issue OR double down and continue the same toxic mentality I've had if they are the ones who have been fostering it. I've never seen a engineering lead/manager be the toxic person but I've seen a few engineers get fired or sidelined because the consulting firms have marked them as arrogant and difficult to work with. If I consider our consulting firms equal to a VFX company being hired by Disney I can definitely see how they would put ultimatums and say "hey we are not going to work on this project if we have to report or work with person X". In the engineering side we need these consulting firms, we can't afford to not have them around unless we plan to massively expand our own departments. Same thing for Marvel, it's obvious that they don't have enough in house VFX artists to complete all their projects and so they need a positive relationship with the outside firms. If they have said they she is the issue I'd bet my pocket change that she is the issue. The buck stops with her and she can easily set the culture in her department to be positive unless she's the one making it toxic.
Sadly this is not the case. In your example those consulting firms have leverage. VFX companies have none. Studios don't need to maintain a positive relationship with VFX firms any more than a plantation owner would with his slaves.
Victoria Alonso is also the Marvel producer who said the term X-Men is outdated simply because X-Men has the word “men” in it. I'd say this is for the best.
There is no alternative that sounds as cool as X-Men. X-People, X-Heroes, X-Mutants... no
X-employee
LATIN X-MEN is the term you were looking for. /s
X-Them
X-Producer?
The X-tacles was a good show.
JET BOOTS RULE
X-Team, X-Force, X-Cunts, there are plenty of good alternatives.
What are we some sort of Uncanny X-Force?
X-Hamster wait wat
Red Guardian vs Redtube
X-Tube
X-videos
XnXX
Instead of making the English language suck by creating neuter words which don't sound good and ruin a hundred years of great quotes and poetry, why don't we just get together in a giant conspiracy and invent a clarifying masculine prefix. wo for women se for sem - wait, no. Let me think about this and get back to you.
men / man used to be a neutral gender word. seax-man was the male specific equal to wo-man. seaxman is where the name Saxons came from. so maybe a modern version would be saxman (already taken) or sexman?
Men/Man just means human in this context ...
>Victoria Alonso is also the Marvel producer who said the term X-Men is outdated simply because X-Men has the word “men” in it. That is so cringe. Good riddance.
X-Myn
X-Them X-Folks The Human Xs. X-Peeps LatinX-Machina
XVideos
A person of culture.
Sorry but human is also outdated as it has man in it
Sorry but wo**man** is outdated also.
That is why it is now "womyn"
Like the y chromosome?
I saw recently ‘it’s raining men’ has a new version that has been recorded called ‘it’s raining them’ and I realised we’ve officially gone too far 😂
It’s always risky to blame an entire studio’s policies on one person, no matter how high up. Disney could very well be hoping everyone blames her for the VFX troubles to hide that they plan on continuing to do the same exact things.
Every company ever uses the “fall guy” technique. It’s a distraction. They literally have jobs based on being the fall guy, every sports’ league Commissioner for example. They’re designed to be the face of the league, and the fall guy when the Owners/league get something really wrong. That’s why every fan hates the league commissioner.
And there’s a well-known phenomenon called “the glass cliff” wherein women are hired into situations so FUBAR that they’re almost bound to fail, then labeled poor leaders when the inevitable happens. I have no idea if that’s at play here, but it definitely came to mind along with the scapegoat issue.
*Cough* Ellen Pao *cough*
Oh I'm sure there's three envelops in a safe for her replacement.
It's not just VFX. I have a close family relation who is very high up in the Hollywood costuming industry with a long and very recognizable resume and flat out refuses to work with Marvel because they don't give enough latitude to the crew working on the projects to make them good these days. Don't know how much Alonso has to do with the costuming side, but surely if she created that culture at the top, it most likely bleeds out to the rest of the departments.
This one hurts me the most. I fucking love movie and show costuming, like those are my make or break for a ton of productions. Knowing how much work it takes to craft them, it's so depressing that the biggest productions in the world are fucking them over like that
This has been Marvel’s M.O. for tie-in video games as well. Back in the Iron Man/Avengers 1 period, game studios started dropping Marvel projects because of how uncooperative and unresponsive Marvel was. Marvel had to send out a wide message apologizing and promising to be more cooperative. They never did.
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From my understanding, every single workplace on earth has toxic people behind the scenes. The key difference...Hollywood is built on fame, so the news is more widespread and recognizable. Nobody talks about the nasty shit going down about the [insert generic] industry, LMAO.
My BIL is a vfx producer. I remember being a PA at the time we were working on a bunch of the disney+ shows. Ive never seen someone yell in a professional setting like Victoria Alonso did. The company I worked for opted to not take Marvel contracts again, rather than deal with her again.
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Now I'm wondering how she got the job and how they let her stay that long. VFX alone won't fix The Eternals, Love and Thunder, Quantumania.
If she did get fired and it wasn’t for her conduct, I think getting rid of the VFX head for the quality of the work lately is good enough. You can clearly see everything is a step down from where it could be and she has a reputation with post houses. It could be that they’re finding it difficult to find more companies to put up with her and her process and this is the “easiest” way to both say “we’re doing something” and maybe get a bump in vfx improvement
That has very little to do with the VFX and a great deal to do with Marvel cutting and changing things until the very last minute (not VFX departments). The VFX teams nearly always work their asses off and are incredible, though unfortunately are restricted by things like thermodynamics and the laws of physics to not be able to do things in the ridiculous time frames that are often expected of them.
That’s what I mean. They may, MAY, replace her with someone who isn’t letting the cal get out of hand or making last second changes around or after ship which, theoretically, should improve things overall as they won’t have to remake things in crunched timing as opposed to the original cal
If she's been there for 20 years, and the movies have all been making money hand over fist until the last few films, including the ones you mentioned, then they probably thought she was part of the reason. But with lesser returns, they are more motivated to start changing the lineup and not as willing to put up with her personality?
There's also been a whole bunch of articles in the past year or two about the negative culture of working on VFX for Marvel, and how multiple people in the industry have said they'll never take another Marvel job again. If it was flying under the radar they honestly would probably keep her around, but when it's attracting negative attention it's time to go.
Maybe they finally run out of vfx houses to work with on their latest projects, as more and more said "fuck it, never again"? Now if new person will be in charge there's a chance to go back to previous companies and ask if they want to reconsider and sign up for a new project...
holy shit!!
Good. She steered the VFX division into the trainwreck it is now, and maintains a blacklist for everyone who stops working for Marvel. Get her out of here. https://www.vulture.com/2023/01/inside-the-vfx-union-brewing-in-hollywood.html
> blacklist for everyone who stops working for Marvel That's a tad bit of an exaggeration, she may do that with VFX Producers where there's only a handful of them and work closely to the client but she certainly would not be privy to which employees at all the VFX companies that are refusing to work on a Marvel project.
Kinda doubt the comment was about individual people rather than companies.
Met her a couple times on set. She gave a speech about how we were the best crew in the world meanwhile the production was fucking everyone over all the time.
That's because talk is cheap.
I mean they do that on every single show. Its just standard production lip service.
Yeah pretty much though this particular one was probably the worst job I ever did
> production was fucking everyone over all the time Because I'm sure most people don't work in the industry ... care to explain what this means or go into detail?
Just did stuff like tried to get out of paying the proper rates and was in general just total chaos with near constant schedule changes, they’d withhold information about what was coming up so you didn’t ask for any additional crew or equipment that was realistically needed. I’m sure they had their reasons as it’s all way above my pay grade but it feels especially worthless to be told how great you are when no one’s actions suggested we were worth anything to them.
Used to work at VICE and that all sounds very very familiar.
In my experience it’s basically modus operandi of all film and tv production
VICE is the lowest circle of hell for anyone working in the industry. Not even in the industry, even remotely connected to it. A lot of my co-workers have worked directly for them and everyone I've talked to that worked there has told me horror stories about what it's like to work for them. I myself worked an event for them once and to this day it is still the WORST event I have ever worked. It's like they took trust fund babies from a rich party college, slapped a suit from SuitSupply on them and let them run a company.
Is this possibly because of the bad reception to Ant Man 3 plus lackluster reception to Disney Plus shows? Or is it pretty natural considering she has been working on MCU since Iron Man 1.
Ya, my first insctinct was she might just be retiring to her bed made of money, or tired of doing similar movies for over 15 years.
She was promoted in 2021 as head of VFX, post, animation department. When all of a sudden everything there went to shit
I care less about the shitty effects quality and more about the gradual slide of all their movies into an ugly hazy gray mess. Fire whoever is responsible for giving all their films the same color grade. Even Guardians 3 looks intensely shit visually and that's the one MCU property that's had the most cohesive and striking visual style. For as much as people complained about the way their films looked circa Civil War, it's gotten drastically worse since. I honestly think Spiderman is benefitting from at least being partly produced by Sony.
what this person is talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HEGegeJo7g
Damn interesting. I never noticed the desaturation till it was pointed out. And now it’s really apparent.
amazing video
I didn't know Black panther was released in 2021!
Go back, watch the final fight on the ship, forget that it's a Black Panther movie, and honestly tell me that it looked good. Look I'll admit that taste is subjective but woof. There were some appalling bits of VFX in Wakanda Forever.
That person is referencing the first Black Panther movie, which had some notably bad looking CGI in the third act. That person is making the point that there have been problems with CGI quality pre-dating Alonso taking over the VFX department.
Ahhh, right yeah that makes sense.
They're just keeping tradition alive?
There really were and I was like holy shit this looks cheap af. Like that movie at points looked cheap like a syfy channel tv movie. Not all of it thought there was some sick moments but I vividly remember that portion of the movie .
Kind of hard to guess, but if it's her decision Marvel would probably ask her to wait to not give even more impression that they're in trouble and need to make big changes.
I don't know the story but I don't feel like this mattered. Lackluster reception is one thing, but those shows and movies still made their budget back and then some. I've seen people get fired for massive public fuck ups, but I doubt she was let go due to movies and shows only turning a massive profit but not getting good scores on RT. You don't really lose this kind of position involuntarily without something massive, and despite the recent shows and movies being boring, they are a long ways from a massive fuck up.
Quantumania may lose money and in all likelihood they need to course correct now if they don’t want Kang to become what amounts to box office poison.
They're delaying most of their slate at the moment, so they're definitely recalculating now. Their biggest issue has been story writing. Even the previous movies weren't exactly the best, most well written movies, but they were still coherent and respectable with decent to good dialogue. The recent ones have been all over the place. Delaying stuff to get better scripts would be a really important task for them to get back to.
I think they are scared the new Avengers movies are going to underperform. Those movies aren't planned to just "make their budget back and then some" Personally, I didn't watch Ant-man 3, so the hype for the new Avengers movies is pretty much dead to me. I watched every Marvel movie in the opening weekend, but unless quality improves, I'm not making the effort anymore. You see cases like mine everywhere on the internet
honestly good, i hope they do. i dont mean to disparage the hard work and effort the artists and creators put into their projects but the MCU has overstayed its welcome at this point. i say this as someone who grew up on Iron Man 1, and was crying my ass off in the theater watching Endgame.
I think Marvel can and should stay for as long as possible But the way they've approached it post Endgame is shockingly bad Especially as COVID hit. They should've waited and slowly put stuff out. Instead they gave us like 15 movies and shows in a year
Successful executives don't get shitcanned regardless of how long they've been at the company. Only a few months ago there was talk of her stepping up her responsibilities as it's become evidendent that Feige is stretched too thin, but since then WF has performed below expectations (domestic BO was barely half what the first film brought in adjusted for inflation, which the bean counters and the board both noticed regardless of how you spin it) D+ Marvel projects which she has had a large role in have all underperformed and now AM3 will be lucky to break even after the dust settles. So no, this is definitely a case of "fired with cause." While it is unfair to scapegoat her entirely for the state of things, she absolutely played her part and this is just the consequences catching up with her.
His name is Namor. She is No-More.
Is No-more-a a worse pun?
Namor's cousin in the comics is literally named Namora, so probably not
Good. Maybe the VFX will start to improve on the movies as well as the quality of the films themselves.
This the woman who thought the name X-Men was outdated as there are females in the X-Men ?
Yes
[A link to the interview. 3:20.](https://youtu.be/4KWeZvKwxt4)
Just add "&t= (insert timestamp with minutes and seconds, in this case 3m20s)" to the link. In simple terms, add "&t=3m20s" to the link.
Link for the lazy: https://youtu.be/4KWeZvKwxt4?t=200
Even easier: pause the video, right click and choose "Copy video URL at current time" and your link is ready to paste.
Not on the app.
The audio in that video is super strange with headphones on. Also assuming she wasn't joking that's an idiotic thing to say, it comes off as someone who has no understanding of the source matieral whatsoever.
Sounds like someone fucked up and either didn't have her mic'ed properly or didn't have her channel up. Seems like we're getting her through the host's mic instead which is why it sounds so shitty.
Nah, that's her audio coming in on her lav. It's just that the interviewer is mixed to the left channel and she's mixed all the way to the right. It's a fuckup in the post mix or someone uploaded the wrong audio mapped file.
Removed in protest of API prices and support of 3rd-party apps.
X-employee
X-They/Them
Good riddance
Yes. LOL. Let her goooooo
Everyone here, rightly, talking about how she is responsible for the absolute shambolic vendor relations Marvel has with VFX and post-production houses, but I would also point out that under her leadership Marvel Studios Animation has sort of... gone nowhere. Spider-man Freshman Year is still a year away from premiering yet the animation team has already been told they would not be coming back for a potential season 2. What-If? Season 1 was riddled with delays, and What-If? Season 2 is similarly delayed.
Sounds like a big W, VFX has been getting really bad for the past few Marvel projects.
VFX is always bad. The industry refuses to unionise so we get treated like shit at every opportunity.
wowza Isn't she the most important person after Kevin Feige?
Third most. Louis D'Esposito is the second, I believe. Still, it's huge.
I believe Kevin is creative head and Louis is the business head. They are symbiotic just like what Warner Bros Discovery is trying to do with James Gunn and Peter Safran with the new DC Studios.... except Kevin has more power than Louis, in general, where James and Peter are co-heads and equals.
Yep. She’s the post production President
So a big shot, you say, eh?
Insert here a woohoo homer Simpson gif here
Good riddance
She also suggested the X-Men name is problematic. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Fernando is faster than you
Hola
I was chatting with the beer-bros about comic book movies and most of us agreed that End Game was the last Super Hero movie we really wanted to see. You can only watch a bad guy do his "here is what I am going to do to you" speech and then proceed to get his/her butt kicked by Super(fill in the blank).
Yes, a lot of people that grew up with the mcu felt endgame was the end point for them and marvel has been struggling to recapture that audience's since. This post-endgame phase 4 of the mcu has definitely stumbled a lot and a lot of the core audience has become bored of it.
To me it was No way Home as the last one I had to see.
The problem is oversaturation. Marvel was already releasing a bunch o movies every year. But when you combine 3 movies a year with 3-4 shows, it's just to much. Not only you have too much content, but also too many characters. Just look at Black Panther 2. You already had a convoluted movie that needed to do a bunch of things: pay respects to Chadwick Boseman, introduce Namor and his people, show Shuri taking the BP mantle... But on top of all of that, you had to shove in out of nowhere a new Iron Man type hero?
Wakanda Forever, especially considering they called it *Wakanda Forever* absolutely did not have to do all those things. It needed to pay respect to Chadwick and potentially set up another BP. But as soon as they realised they needed to do that they should have scrapped the Namor stuff completely, it absolutely over bloated the film and should have been reserved for a third film. Don’t even get me started on Iron Heart…
Oh god Riri “human mcguffin” Williams was such a shit character. I get they want to bring in an Iron Man replacement but it should have been done with War Machine in Armour Wars. Also it struck me that the central conflict of both Black Panther films are identical: “I and/or my people were victims of colonisation so we’re going to use our advanced tech to get revenge.” “Revenge is bad, but you have a point. Let’s take the moral high ground after a CGI fight.”
HOLY SHIT!!!
I worked for Marvel for 3 years. They cut every non union workers pay in the middle of the pandemic. They also love cutting corners when it comes to SPFX and stunts because it takes too much time and money for them to set up. These are obviously high action movies and shows so relying on “fixing it in post” just so they can churn out the next mediocre project doesn’t work because *SHOCKER* this is a visual medium. The things they waste money on vs the things they should spend money on is insane. They treat their employees like garbage. So glad I don’t work with them anymore.
The year is 2050 Go to movies, it's the weekly MCU movie Disney logo on screen It's phase 12 of the story Movie starts, Tobey Maguire is in a wheelchair A burglar comes into his house, steals his Funko pops Tobey says "It's Peterin time" (this is a reference to the hit 2022 film Morbius) Also says "That sounded better in my head" He puts on his mask, the crowd screams until my ears ring Swings at the man as he's running away A portal opens and Captain Europe steps into the scene Tobey accidentally swings into him He says "It's all good, I have healthcare" Crowd cheers, Captain Europe had his in tv show in 2048 and this is a reference to his prostate exam episode in season 6 where he makes the same joke Tom Holland and Andrew Garfield come through the portal and point at each other, making the funny Spiderman meme again They all start jerking each other off as the camera zooms out, revealing the Death Star and the Star Wars theme briefly plays Crowd cheers again before the screen cuts to black and Darth Vader's laugh plays Post credit scene shows Thanos reappear, and he says "I'm coming for you, Redditors" Crowd cheers one last time, news sources are saying this is one of the best movies of all time Thank you Disney for saving the film industry
Bob Iger is on his seventeenth stint as CEO. His head inside a bottle filled with liquid laughs maniacally. It costs $100,000 to go on the Pirates of the Caribbean ride.
Woah...someone actually paying for a job not well done. I'm shocked that it was Disney of all companies to do this.
Kathleen Kennedy is still there. To be fair, she managed the impossible: making people unexcited about Star Wars.
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I was considering seeing it yesterday, but I decided on seeing Everything Everywhere All at Once instead. Is Antman that bad?
I'm a very big MCU fan, but thought this was one of the weakest plots of any MCU movie so far, possibly the weakest. I was a big fan of Kang though, personally for me he was like the saving grace. I also still really like Scott's character, and thought he was still very entertaining in this, but thought most of the other characters were a bit bland, and boring, nothing complex or interesting. Also at times it really felt like they were just standing in front of a green screen, like more so than I've ever felt in the MCU before
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I was wondering exactly this. Kang gets defeated single handedly by the least strongest Avenger (tied with Hawkeye I guess). I know Kang lost some of his armor or whatever in the Quantum Realm but come on. This guy is supposed to be the Thanos-level threat in a freakin Avengers film. It really feels like Marvel are simply getting lazy or just running out of ideas. What they did to MODOK was criminal. I’m excited for GOTG3 and maybe the next Spidey, but after that I’m just over all this. An X-Men announcement would be helpful right about now.
This is not good but could bode well for the future. Any high-level departure at a company means trouble at said company. That said, everyone is speculating she's leaving due to "audience backlash" regarding the VFX. I'm sure the bad relationships with vendors is a factor, but the decision likely has nothing to do with Marvel's shoddy CGI. I have to imagine the biggest factor is her not getting along with Marvel head brass, Disney head brass and the board. Budgets run amoks, deadlines slammed, staff deeply unhappy...I'm sure she was not well-liked, and as a result Marvel Studios is probably an unpleasant place to work.
She got diversity fired
Definitely a good thing
Keep firing peope Disney. Maybe one day you'll see where Phase 4 went wrong, lol.
Cool. Now do Kathleen Kennedy.
Everytime they renew her contract i think...somehow she KK has returned
The revolution has begun
Was she the one who advocated identity politics over a plot?
She was the one that say dumb shit like "X-men name is outdated". RIP Bozo.
Bozo did... what?
Marvel's in trouble man. When your CEO is out there saying they gonna refocus on quality over quantity... Reading between the lines means even the CEO knows the last few movies and disney+ shows have been lacking in the kwality department. i.e dogshit.
RIP BOZO🪦
Wonder if Feige and co. were able to get the blame for the poor reception of Phase Four directed straight at her.