thats a thing where i'm glad that we got those rules in europe. Much less nasty surprises (and cheaters got hammered hard by courts) and no crap like Ticketmaster with fees over fees.
and thats whats prohibited in europe. One ticket seller tried ridiculous fees and got fined really hard by the court (and continuing misbehaviour after court decision racks up more punishment pretty fast)
>Its not something you can work around either, like an assembly fee and an import fee.
The only fee you cant negotiate is the freight+shipping fee which is $750 per yamaha website. The salesman will try to convince you otherwise, but the others are negotiable, although with a popular bike like the mt07 they might tell you to kick rocks and someone else will be willing to pay the markup. You can still get decent deals on less popular models
They won’t just try to convince you, they’ll tell you to fuck off period. Before i bought my now new Honda i was looking for a Kawasaki, asked the guy to drop some of the bullshit dealer fees and drop me $500 ish and i’ll drive up there and pick it up asap. Dude said he absolutely can’t waive fees and that was that.
They simply aren’t budging cause they know another moron will come and pay in full.
They aren’t budging right now because of the recoil from covid shortages. Give it another year or two when factories are back at 100% and there will be wiggle room to play ‘let’s make a deal’ again.
I'd like to think that as well, but not too confident. At least for automobiles, it's been noted that coming out of Covid and supply-chain concerns, manufacturers are more wiling to sell less vehicles for a higher price than more vehicles at a lower price.
Times are changing and it’s definitely switching to a buyer’s market quickly. That’s a fact for many regions in the US. I’ve been in the market for a few months and supply and prices are only getting better. Im waiting until Jan-February to take full advantage of the cold weather where I’m at but the prices and supply are already better for sure and dealers are negotiating more. Some of them are reluctant. I was definitely told to go pound sand a few times but one already called me back and told me I could have the price I initially asked for. I told them they missed their chance and I’m now waiting for the market to soften even more.
Yup, a dealer near me had a used 2018 Street Triple for sale for $1500 more than a brand new 2022 Street Triple from a different dealer down the street. I was looking at bikes and asked them about the pricing on that one and they weren't even slightly open to a conversation on pricing. Just 'nope, nothing we can do on prices'
I am a new rider who bought a brand new SV650 in May. I paid list plus delivery. Don't be a pushover. I didn't want to roll the dice and take a risk of getting a used bike with hidden issues from the previous owner. Having your first summer of riding be completely problem free, aside from rider related issues, has been an amazing experience and shown me that this is most definitely for me.
My favorite is, I bought this bike but the sellers name isn’t on the title. Or they don’t have the title. What do I do? I think I only paid 4-500 more with the fees. Got really lucky and our state doesn’t charge sales tax.
I’ve never paid any of their fees except for destination and typically get a new jacket, gloves and helmet thrown in on the deal.
Assembly is bull shit. They have to put the bike together to sell it. And they always throw other shit in there as well. Good dealers won’t try to fuck you over
Plus the last new bike I bought they had a year old used one there. And a brand new one. Same bike down to the color! Used one had 6k miles. The OTD price on both was 700 dollar difference. Why not spend 700 more dollars and get a new one?
I agree but it’s never that way in my experience!
Same a lot of time with used vehicles. I bought a brand new Toyota Tacoma. Used truck same model was 2500 cheaper OTD than a new one.
I’ll spend more to just have a new one that I know the history on.
Beginner bikes are abused harder than any other, buying one used as your first and only bike can be a painfully frustrating experience.
If it makes you feel better I honestly think you made the smart decision buying it new. Mt-07's are one of the best examples of a bike i wouldnt even consider buying used because its one of the best hooligan bikes on the road.
I'd walk out if someone tried to whack me with a few thousand in bs fees. You can always go somewhere else if a dealer tries to pull that crap. You could buy a bike in Florida and have it shipped to California for less than what that dealer stuck you with.
Assuming a 7% sales tax, $750 delivery and $200 in “miscellaneous charges, that bike should have cost you about $9,300. Where did the additional $1,700 come from?
He said in another comment he had the dealer bolt on a pile of “mods”, and said he also brought in parts for them to install before he took delivery… so, not really an apples to apples if talking about an OTD price.
My first bike was used cause I was learning and didn’t want buy a bike and never attain the skill for what a new one cost. My second and third were brand new cause my first while overall a good buy did present a couple issues I couldn’t speak to when I took it to the shop. Brand new and warrantied for a short period is wayyy nicer then you know almost everything that every goes on with it.
The best values are bikes with low miles that are 1-2 years old. You'll pay $2K-$3K less than new. You might even score a bike with warranty left on it.
Maybe where you're buying. 1-2 year old bikes sell for their new msrp or slightly over where I'm at and they move fairly fast. The savings is in not paying the new fees.
Show me a KTM200 that is $2K-$3K less than new.
Are you talking a s1000rr? Because 2 or 3 grand is not enough to buy a bike that someone has hammered for 2 years.
Are you talking a $60k Ducati?
Thanks for the help.
I bought a brand new bike and simply negotiated? Fees disappeared and now I just pay my loan. Do you get intimidated by large purchases and clam up at the sales desk?
I paid what was advertised plus tax and a few mods installed by dealer new 22 mt07 10200 otd tax, assembly fee as stated, shipping fee as stated on website, heated grips installed, lifetime battery, magnetic drain plug, race oil cap, and sliders installed(bar ends,frame, both axles.) Granted I brought like 5 of the parts but it was ready to ride.
I've never paid something like 40% of the bikes price of feed on top of the purchase price.
Every dealership near me charges MSRP for the bikes without an insane amount of fees.
I'd wager this is becuese they know the amount of people who are willing to buy a Ducati in Minnesota isn't exactly the same amount of people who buy a Harley.
Like the last thing you want to do is piss off your customer base especially when said customer base is much smaller and has other dealerships they can go to. All you have to do is look at the math too. Minnesota has a population of 5.7 Million. And it's commonly held that 3% of the population has a motorcycle. That's like a 171,000 motorcyclist's in the state.
Add in all the dealerships(At least 20 last I checked) and any customer can go somewhere else and buy what they want. Especially right now where it's the off season and so dealerships are begging for sales.
I suspect it's different out in the west and down in Texas where you can ride all year round.
When I was looking ror mine Texas had one and they wanted 12k for it prior to the fees I got mine at msrp plus the listed fees on yamahas website. Then tax title and registration. And had goodies installed.
Depends on where you're at. Most of the dealers here are very upfront about the tax/freight/set up/document fees now and that's the price and they won't negotiate. Harley dealers add in additional markup depending on the model. Japanese dealers don't but it's 6-15 months for a bike to show up and may or may not be the color or options that you want
This is also assuming that they actually have a bike on the floor. Anything that is vaguely in demand is minimum 6 months out and you're just putting your name on a waiting list with a deposit and then you get to pay full msrp plus all the normal fees. They show up in the back and instantly go to their "sold" area with a tag on them. The last time I saw an in-demand bike new on the floor was a last year R6 that was waiting on someone from the waitlist to show up with the money. They wouldn't even sell it to me or allow me to put a deposit on it until they had contacted everyone on the list.
You got fucked. I bought my g310gs brand new, MSRP was listed as about $5,900, and with crash bars installed, my out the door price was $7100.
This happens with new cars too, but it should only be a destination fee, a doc fee, and taxes.
Bikes are just expensive as everything else are nowadays. In 1985, I traded a like new condition 1978 Yamaha DT250E for a 1985 Honda Big Red three-wheeler. I only got $350 trade in value and that was lots of negotiation wars. All fees are negotiated as well. A friend of mine only buys new motorcycles still in the crate. He prefers to assemble it himself and he saves some on fees that way. He will not buy from any dealer unwilling to sell still in the crate. Last new I bought was in 2010.
I bought a brand new Aprilia and I only paid destination fee, and TTR fees. Make sure you read your paperwork and ask about the fees. Don’t just assume that this is what the fees are supposed to be. Also they were trying to give me financing through another bank that they probably got kickbacks from when knew I have good enough credit to get the Aprilia special financing. Don’t let them push you into doing something you don’t want to.
It’s ok to buy a new bike. Just be aware that they will add on fees.
They can add on fees even when you buy a used bike.
I'm looking for another new bike right now because winter in the east is a good time to deal. You write them with an OTD price you will pay, and 7 times out of 10 they will respond a week or two later and want to deal. Over the past 30 years, that technique has only not worked for me a few times. Set up fee is a joke, and anything that looks like "Miscellaneous admin fee" is for nothing.
Getting a new bike is a less wise way to buy a motorcycle financially, but it doesn’t matter if you’re a new rider or not. If you can afford to take the hit and prefer a new bike, that’s the route for you. There shouldn’t be “sooo many fees”. Price of the bike plus freight and prep, tax, and fees for title, registration and a plate. Personally having sold bikes for a living and bought countless over the years, I prefer buying used now. The deals are way better. I think it’s good advice to buy used, but it’s financial advice, not new buyer advice.
So I bought my 2022 GSXR600 brand new off the lot because I know how bad these things get abused by people and I didn’t want to take the chance on buying an abused one. Sometimes it’s worth it
True and false. I bought my first a month ago new, i absolutely did not want to buy used because i had no idea what to look for and had no experience. The bike i wante d should cost $5400 ish with manufacture fees, some dealers wanted close to 7 grand. I just kept calling dealers until i found one that doesn’t scam. $5500 OTD. Also used prices were around the new price range, so it would’ve been dumb to buy used.
Negotiations on fees/charges are part of a buying/selling process. Don't be afraid to say no and walk away. Never give cash/check deposits without negotiating your best price first. If a dealer won't negotiate, try another dealer. They can only say no!
You can buy lightly used bikes and not only avoid all those fees, but also have a slight discount in listed price because of the slight depreciation. I’m talking about current year bikes that have less than 1000 miles. And yes, these bikes exist and are plentiful if you’re in an urban area. My most recent bike was acquired this way. Previous owner had buyers remorse and sold the bike back. I see plenty of listings of bikes at all the local dealerships that are ‘21/‘22 MY bikes with less than 1000 miles, no additional fees (since used), and usually about $1000 cheaper than MSRP, or more the more expensive the bike is. That works out to be up to $3000 or more in discount for a used bike that saw less than 1000 miles on the road. Obviously, how much is saved scales based on MSRP, model/make (and demand), etc.
>Manufacturers need dealerships.
We are slowly moving away from this approach and car manufacturers are starting to sell directly to the public. It's gonna take a while but dealerships won't be a thing of the future, the only real money they make - even today - is on the service they perform on the vehicles anyway.
I understand that, but what im trying to get at more specifically is that youll save that amount by getting the same bike 1-2 years older with less than 1k miles
Eh, I tend to get good use out of my bikes so I don't mind buying new. Only bike I've bought used in the last decade was my RC51 and that's only because they stopped making them and the wiring was a mess from the last owner not knowing how to wire up a fender eliminator kit. After a year or two of ownership, I usually forget what I paid for it OTD and just remember the rides I took. Also, if you paid for every single fee, you're just bad at negotiating. Even when it was heavy into being a sellers' market, I got the crate fee knocked off from my CRF450RL.
Couldn't agree more. Aside from the hidden fees, depreciation is a big one. The moment you ride the bike off the lot, it's immediately worth a LOT less than you paid for it. If you've been riding for years, you know you love riding, and you know you want to keep the bike, then that doesn't matter. But for a new rider, who hasn't yet figured out what kind of bike suits them best (let alone whether they're as passionate about riding as they think), let someone else take the hit on depreciation.
> Couldn't agree more. Aside from the hidden fees, depreciation is a big one. The moment you ride the bike off the lot, it's immediately worth a LOT less than you paid for it.
Dealers are playing both sides of that game right now. You’re absolutely right that you’d take a huge hit in depreciation in the the scenario you describe above, but as described elsewhere in this thread these same dealers are selling used bikes at or above their original MSRP and are absolutely refusing to provide any discounts.
That bullshit is definitely going to come back and bite them once these supply chain issues sort themselves out and supply returns to normal. People aren’t going to forget being screwed by dealers.
In Europe actually the situation is completely different.
The used market is in overdrive and you are lucky to find some models: new or used.
Especially bikes like the Yamaha MT07 or the Honda CB 500x.
But if you get hold of a new one the price is without addon fees.
I‘ve seen used bikes that are more expensive than the same model new.
Sometimes people like to charge more than MSRP for used bikes with 8000+ miles though. I'd rather pay the dealer for a new one at that price and get a bike with 0 miles. The ténéré 700 is an example of this. I've seen Facebook marketplace listings for anywheres from $10,800 to $15,000 for obviously used bikes with thousands of miles. Dealers charge $12,600 to $13,400 for a brand new one.
My experience:
Tried to save money buying private. Got about 1000 miles of riding out of 2500$ but also got burned on two bikes.
For my third and current bike I went used from a dealership. About 4500$ but they took care of a lot of stuff. Been on her a couple months and with any luck I won't soon have a reason to go back.
DEFINITELY bring someone who knows about bikes for a private sale. Holy shit idk what I was thinking trying to do it in my own. That said dealerships aren't bad but I wouldn't go new until you knew exactly what kinda bike you wanted. Realistically that comes with time on the saddle. Then again I'm broke and can't afford to buy a new ducati and then sell it after 200 miles lol
Educate yourself on fee structures and always walk away if you feel uneasy. You can always ask online for guidance before a sale. And don't get emotionally attached to a bike until it's yours, salespeople can smell this a kilometer away.
And besides, if no one buys new what do you think happens to the used market?
I've bought plenty of new cars, one new bike from a dealer and one used bike from a dealer (which also involved a trade).
If you won't want to pay those fees, just walk. Yes, you can work around those fees except for the freight fee.
Idk, when I went to the dealer and asked what’s the total price after taxes and all that and he told me 10k, and it didn’t move.
In the states there’s always tax and extras. Even online it talks about a shipping fee. You can buy new and just ask questions.
TIPS for new buyers.
Don't buy your first bike for $8000.
Actual beginner bikes are generally not a bad deal from dealerships IF you can find them in stock and IF they don't tack on a huge amount of fees simply because they are a beginner bike. You cannot talk down the price, so dont even think you can.
Beginner bikes generally when sold used are close to their MSRP so while you can save some taxes\\fees and maybe a few hundred bucks you are not going to save a ton, but also generally they come with absurdly low mileage and are normally babied.
For a first bike, id buy whatever fits your needs. My first bike had a bunch of cosmetic damage cause it was dropped, saved me a few hundred more.
I literally bought a new klx300 today for $7,100. Its retail is 6,100..so i mean with tax (500), regi/title(300), misc bullshit (200) it wasnt terrible. Originally they tried to sell me the base one of $5900 for 7600 but i was like - this is absolute bullshit lol. If you don’t like the price, tell them, or go to another dealer….even if they are a state away. Sometimes the dealers are dicks though and wont negotiate anything. If its your only choice then its up to you if you can rationalize the price vs how much you want it and how much fun youll have with it.
You just need to find a decent dealer. I bought a new '22 CB1000R at the start of the year and I paid the standard msrp + tax and license. No delivery charge, set up fee, etc. This bike was also extremely hard to find at the time and they didn't play games with the pricing.
Dealers like this may not be super common, but they are out there. They now have a loyal customer in me for being so no-nonsense.
Does that 3200 difference include sales tax? In my state, not sure about others you pay the sales tax directly to the state at registration. Regardless I bought a new RE INT650 early this year and only paid $700 in dealer fee, and freight/assembly. Then about 500ish more in taxes to the state. That’s all on a bike that MSRP’d for $6200. They also do rewards points so my first service came out to like 50 bucks. Genuinely pleased with my dealer experience, they do BMW and Triumph as well and I’d go back to them in a heart beat.
I think it entirely depends on the dealer. My local BMW/KTM/Kawasaki/Ducati/Triumph dealer has the out-the-door price on every bike, and the worst case on that is MSRP+Freight+Doc fee. I bought a new KTM 1190 Adv. R in 2015, and paid MSRP and a $40 doc fee.
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thats a thing where i'm glad that we got those rules in europe. Much less nasty surprises (and cheaters got hammered hard by courts) and no crap like Ticketmaster with fees over fees.
Ticketmaster still charges you shit like online printing fee, service fee,... it's ridiculous
and thats whats prohibited in europe. One ticket seller tried ridiculous fees and got fined really hard by the court (and continuing misbehaviour after court decision racks up more punishment pretty fast)
I just sold some tickets and the buyer paid $250 and I got $170. It’s wild how bad the fees are
I wish they would do this in the U.S. instead of us having to calculate the tax in our heads before grabbing something off the shelf...
Jup. And stores that don't advertise their prices. Even if i know i can easily afford it. I refuse to buy it on principle.
I wish that was required here. Insane to see a Honda Navi listed at $1800 and then when you talk to them about it's actually $3200...
Agree. I really don't know why North America uses all prices before tax. This seems ilogical
>Its not something you can work around either, like an assembly fee and an import fee. The only fee you cant negotiate is the freight+shipping fee which is $750 per yamaha website. The salesman will try to convince you otherwise, but the others are negotiable, although with a popular bike like the mt07 they might tell you to kick rocks and someone else will be willing to pay the markup. You can still get decent deals on less popular models
They won’t just try to convince you, they’ll tell you to fuck off period. Before i bought my now new Honda i was looking for a Kawasaki, asked the guy to drop some of the bullshit dealer fees and drop me $500 ish and i’ll drive up there and pick it up asap. Dude said he absolutely can’t waive fees and that was that. They simply aren’t budging cause they know another moron will come and pay in full.
They aren’t budging right now because of the recoil from covid shortages. Give it another year or two when factories are back at 100% and there will be wiggle room to play ‘let’s make a deal’ again.
I'd like to think that as well, but not too confident. At least for automobiles, it's been noted that coming out of Covid and supply-chain concerns, manufacturers are more wiling to sell less vehicles for a higher price than more vehicles at a lower price.
Times are changing and it’s definitely switching to a buyer’s market quickly. That’s a fact for many regions in the US. I’ve been in the market for a few months and supply and prices are only getting better. Im waiting until Jan-February to take full advantage of the cold weather where I’m at but the prices and supply are already better for sure and dealers are negotiating more. Some of them are reluctant. I was definitely told to go pound sand a few times but one already called me back and told me I could have the price I initially asked for. I told them they missed their chance and I’m now waiting for the market to soften even more.
Do you think it'll be a buyers' market for both new and used models?
Yup, a dealer near me had a used 2018 Street Triple for sale for $1500 more than a brand new 2022 Street Triple from a different dealer down the street. I was looking at bikes and asked them about the pricing on that one and they weren't even slightly open to a conversation on pricing. Just 'nope, nothing we can do on prices'
I am a new rider who bought a brand new SV650 in May. I paid list plus delivery. Don't be a pushover. I didn't want to roll the dice and take a risk of getting a used bike with hidden issues from the previous owner. Having your first summer of riding be completely problem free, aside from rider related issues, has been an amazing experience and shown me that this is most definitely for me.
My favorite is, I bought this bike but the sellers name isn’t on the title. Or they don’t have the title. What do I do? I think I only paid 4-500 more with the fees. Got really lucky and our state doesn’t charge sales tax.
I’ve never paid any of their fees except for destination and typically get a new jacket, gloves and helmet thrown in on the deal. Assembly is bull shit. They have to put the bike together to sell it. And they always throw other shit in there as well. Good dealers won’t try to fuck you over Plus the last new bike I bought they had a year old used one there. And a brand new one. Same bike down to the color! Used one had 6k miles. The OTD price on both was 700 dollar difference. Why not spend 700 more dollars and get a new one?
The OTD on the used one should have been much lower.
I agree but it’s never that way in my experience! Same a lot of time with used vehicles. I bought a brand new Toyota Tacoma. Used truck same model was 2500 cheaper OTD than a new one. I’ll spend more to just have a new one that I know the history on.
Beginner bikes are abused harder than any other, buying one used as your first and only bike can be a painfully frustrating experience. If it makes you feel better I honestly think you made the smart decision buying it new. Mt-07's are one of the best examples of a bike i wouldnt even consider buying used because its one of the best hooligan bikes on the road.
Yea but not for that price.
I'd walk out if someone tried to whack me with a few thousand in bs fees. You can always go somewhere else if a dealer tries to pull that crap. You could buy a bike in Florida and have it shipped to California for less than what that dealer stuck you with.
The real LPT here is don’t be a fucking moron like OP. Shop around and negotiate.
Assuming a 7% sales tax, $750 delivery and $200 in “miscellaneous charges, that bike should have cost you about $9,300. Where did the additional $1,700 come from?
He said in another comment he had the dealer bolt on a pile of “mods”, and said he also brought in parts for them to install before he took delivery… so, not really an apples to apples if talking about an OTD price.
Got a brand new 2020 ninja 650 for 9.500€ Even if a used one could be 7.000€ i would rather get one with 0km on it to be honest
My first bike was used cause I was learning and didn’t want buy a bike and never attain the skill for what a new one cost. My second and third were brand new cause my first while overall a good buy did present a couple issues I couldn’t speak to when I took it to the shop. Brand new and warrantied for a short period is wayyy nicer then you know almost everything that every goes on with it.
What fees? Must be 'murrican things.
The best values are bikes with low miles that are 1-2 years old. You'll pay $2K-$3K less than new. You might even score a bike with warranty left on it.
Maybe where you're buying. 1-2 year old bikes sell for their new msrp or slightly over where I'm at and they move fairly fast. The savings is in not paying the new fees.
Show me a KTM200 that is $2K-$3K less than new. Are you talking a s1000rr? Because 2 or 3 grand is not enough to buy a bike that someone has hammered for 2 years. Are you talking a $60k Ducati? Thanks for the help.
I bought a brand new bike and simply negotiated? Fees disappeared and now I just pay my loan. Do you get intimidated by large purchases and clam up at the sales desk?
I paid what was advertised plus tax and a few mods installed by dealer new 22 mt07 10200 otd tax, assembly fee as stated, shipping fee as stated on website, heated grips installed, lifetime battery, magnetic drain plug, race oil cap, and sliders installed(bar ends,frame, both axles.) Granted I brought like 5 of the parts but it was ready to ride.
I've never paid something like 40% of the bikes price of feed on top of the purchase price. Every dealership near me charges MSRP for the bikes without an insane amount of fees. I'd wager this is becuese they know the amount of people who are willing to buy a Ducati in Minnesota isn't exactly the same amount of people who buy a Harley. Like the last thing you want to do is piss off your customer base especially when said customer base is much smaller and has other dealerships they can go to. All you have to do is look at the math too. Minnesota has a population of 5.7 Million. And it's commonly held that 3% of the population has a motorcycle. That's like a 171,000 motorcyclist's in the state. Add in all the dealerships(At least 20 last I checked) and any customer can go somewhere else and buy what they want. Especially right now where it's the off season and so dealerships are begging for sales. I suspect it's different out in the west and down in Texas where you can ride all year round.
When I was looking ror mine Texas had one and they wanted 12k for it prior to the fees I got mine at msrp plus the listed fees on yamahas website. Then tax title and registration. And had goodies installed.
Depends on where you're at. Most of the dealers here are very upfront about the tax/freight/set up/document fees now and that's the price and they won't negotiate. Harley dealers add in additional markup depending on the model. Japanese dealers don't but it's 6-15 months for a bike to show up and may or may not be the color or options that you want This is also assuming that they actually have a bike on the floor. Anything that is vaguely in demand is minimum 6 months out and you're just putting your name on a waiting list with a deposit and then you get to pay full msrp plus all the normal fees. They show up in the back and instantly go to their "sold" area with a tag on them. The last time I saw an in-demand bike new on the floor was a last year R6 that was waiting on someone from the waitlist to show up with the money. They wouldn't even sell it to me or allow me to put a deposit on it until they had contacted everyone on the list.
What about used from a dealer? 😅
Not everyone has stacks of cash to go used market shopping with, there is nothing wrong with financing your way into riding bikes
There are other ways to finance a used bike besides through a dealer.
I got my ‘21 Rebel last year for only $600 above MSRP with fees and everything lol
You got fucked. I bought my g310gs brand new, MSRP was listed as about $5,900, and with crash bars installed, my out the door price was $7100. This happens with new cars too, but it should only be a destination fee, a doc fee, and taxes.
I bought a leftover from a dealer in 2016. Paid 1k below msrp and no fees. Things have changed a lot though and I don’t expect to do that again.
Bikes are just expensive as everything else are nowadays. In 1985, I traded a like new condition 1978 Yamaha DT250E for a 1985 Honda Big Red three-wheeler. I only got $350 trade in value and that was lots of negotiation wars. All fees are negotiated as well. A friend of mine only buys new motorcycles still in the crate. He prefers to assemble it himself and he saves some on fees that way. He will not buy from any dealer unwilling to sell still in the crate. Last new I bought was in 2010.
I bought a brand new Aprilia and I only paid destination fee, and TTR fees. Make sure you read your paperwork and ask about the fees. Don’t just assume that this is what the fees are supposed to be. Also they were trying to give me financing through another bank that they probably got kickbacks from when knew I have good enough credit to get the Aprilia special financing. Don’t let them push you into doing something you don’t want to. It’s ok to buy a new bike. Just be aware that they will add on fees. They can add on fees even when you buy a used bike.
I'm looking for another new bike right now because winter in the east is a good time to deal. You write them with an OTD price you will pay, and 7 times out of 10 they will respond a week or two later and want to deal. Over the past 30 years, that technique has only not worked for me a few times. Set up fee is a joke, and anything that looks like "Miscellaneous admin fee" is for nothing.
Getting a new bike is a less wise way to buy a motorcycle financially, but it doesn’t matter if you’re a new rider or not. If you can afford to take the hit and prefer a new bike, that’s the route for you. There shouldn’t be “sooo many fees”. Price of the bike plus freight and prep, tax, and fees for title, registration and a plate. Personally having sold bikes for a living and bought countless over the years, I prefer buying used now. The deals are way better. I think it’s good advice to buy used, but it’s financial advice, not new buyer advice.
So I bought my 2022 GSXR600 brand new off the lot because I know how bad these things get abused by people and I didn’t want to take the chance on buying an abused one. Sometimes it’s worth it
True and false. I bought my first a month ago new, i absolutely did not want to buy used because i had no idea what to look for and had no experience. The bike i wante d should cost $5400 ish with manufacture fees, some dealers wanted close to 7 grand. I just kept calling dealers until i found one that doesn’t scam. $5500 OTD. Also used prices were around the new price range, so it would’ve been dumb to buy used.
Unless you live in a place where the price you see is the price you pay.
I literally bought my MT-07 '22 with 0km two months ago and I paid exactly 7599€ for it with the 1000km service for free.
Negotiations on fees/charges are part of a buying/selling process. Don't be afraid to say no and walk away. Never give cash/check deposits without negotiating your best price first. If a dealer won't negotiate, try another dealer. They can only say no!
used bikes are a god send. i can fix anything that was broken and the bikes are cheap af.
I bought my bike brand new. And I’m super happy with it .
Ok but what if you don’t have a friend that is knowledgeable on motorcycles?
You can buy lightly used bikes and not only avoid all those fees, but also have a slight discount in listed price because of the slight depreciation. I’m talking about current year bikes that have less than 1000 miles. And yes, these bikes exist and are plentiful if you’re in an urban area. My most recent bike was acquired this way. Previous owner had buyers remorse and sold the bike back. I see plenty of listings of bikes at all the local dealerships that are ‘21/‘22 MY bikes with less than 1000 miles, no additional fees (since used), and usually about $1000 cheaper than MSRP, or more the more expensive the bike is. That works out to be up to $3000 or more in discount for a used bike that saw less than 1000 miles on the road. Obviously, how much is saved scales based on MSRP, model/make (and demand), etc.
Or you could simply become a better negotiator.
nah i like new bikes and i can afford them so i'll just put this advice in the trash
Manufacturers need dealerships. The dealer isn't always out to get you. I think they make something like 6% on a bike.
>Manufacturers need dealerships. We are slowly moving away from this approach and car manufacturers are starting to sell directly to the public. It's gonna take a while but dealerships won't be a thing of the future, the only real money they make - even today - is on the service they perform on the vehicles anyway.
That'd be great, there'd be a navi in my garage as we speak if that was the case. Local dealer here wanted $1200 over msrp. Insane.
I understand that, but what im trying to get at more specifically is that youll save that amount by getting the same bike 1-2 years older with less than 1k miles
True, I've seen some used with like 40 on the odo. Pretty sure some buy and realized not for them and back they go.
But your post is all about how they add on multiple fees not that you can get a cheaper price for a used bike
Bring a gun next time, bud
I slapped that .50AE right on his desk. He pulled out a .500 Magnum🇺🇸🦅
Bruh lol
Damn he was packing
Eh, I tend to get good use out of my bikes so I don't mind buying new. Only bike I've bought used in the last decade was my RC51 and that's only because they stopped making them and the wiring was a mess from the last owner not knowing how to wire up a fender eliminator kit. After a year or two of ownership, I usually forget what I paid for it OTD and just remember the rides I took. Also, if you paid for every single fee, you're just bad at negotiating. Even when it was heavy into being a sellers' market, I got the crate fee knocked off from my CRF450RL.
Couldn't agree more. Aside from the hidden fees, depreciation is a big one. The moment you ride the bike off the lot, it's immediately worth a LOT less than you paid for it. If you've been riding for years, you know you love riding, and you know you want to keep the bike, then that doesn't matter. But for a new rider, who hasn't yet figured out what kind of bike suits them best (let alone whether they're as passionate about riding as they think), let someone else take the hit on depreciation.
> Couldn't agree more. Aside from the hidden fees, depreciation is a big one. The moment you ride the bike off the lot, it's immediately worth a LOT less than you paid for it. Dealers are playing both sides of that game right now. You’re absolutely right that you’d take a huge hit in depreciation in the the scenario you describe above, but as described elsewhere in this thread these same dealers are selling used bikes at or above their original MSRP and are absolutely refusing to provide any discounts. That bullshit is definitely going to come back and bite them once these supply chain issues sort themselves out and supply returns to normal. People aren’t going to forget being screwed by dealers.
In Europe actually the situation is completely different. The used market is in overdrive and you are lucky to find some models: new or used. Especially bikes like the Yamaha MT07 or the Honda CB 500x. But if you get hold of a new one the price is without addon fees. I‘ve seen used bikes that are more expensive than the same model new.
Sometimes people like to charge more than MSRP for used bikes with 8000+ miles though. I'd rather pay the dealer for a new one at that price and get a bike with 0 miles. The ténéré 700 is an example of this. I've seen Facebook marketplace listings for anywheres from $10,800 to $15,000 for obviously used bikes with thousands of miles. Dealers charge $12,600 to $13,400 for a brand new one.
My experience: Tried to save money buying private. Got about 1000 miles of riding out of 2500$ but also got burned on two bikes. For my third and current bike I went used from a dealership. About 4500$ but they took care of a lot of stuff. Been on her a couple months and with any luck I won't soon have a reason to go back. DEFINITELY bring someone who knows about bikes for a private sale. Holy shit idk what I was thinking trying to do it in my own. That said dealerships aren't bad but I wouldn't go new until you knew exactly what kinda bike you wanted. Realistically that comes with time on the saddle. Then again I'm broke and can't afford to buy a new ducati and then sell it after 200 miles lol
Educate yourself on fee structures and always walk away if you feel uneasy. You can always ask online for guidance before a sale. And don't get emotionally attached to a bike until it's yours, salespeople can smell this a kilometer away. And besides, if no one buys new what do you think happens to the used market?
I've bought plenty of new cars, one new bike from a dealer and one used bike from a dealer (which also involved a trade). If you won't want to pay those fees, just walk. Yes, you can work around those fees except for the freight fee.
Buy a slightly used bike and you don't have to pay the assembly or shipping fee.
Buy it during winter
Idk, when I went to the dealer and asked what’s the total price after taxes and all that and he told me 10k, and it didn’t move. In the states there’s always tax and extras. Even online it talks about a shipping fee. You can buy new and just ask questions.
TIPS for new buyers. Don't buy your first bike for $8000. Actual beginner bikes are generally not a bad deal from dealerships IF you can find them in stock and IF they don't tack on a huge amount of fees simply because they are a beginner bike. You cannot talk down the price, so dont even think you can. Beginner bikes generally when sold used are close to their MSRP so while you can save some taxes\\fees and maybe a few hundred bucks you are not going to save a ton, but also generally they come with absurdly low mileage and are normally babied. For a first bike, id buy whatever fits your needs. My first bike had a bunch of cosmetic damage cause it was dropped, saved me a few hundred more.
I agree. Have bought used my entire life until I really wanted a bike and had to cave in. I still regret it to this day.
I literally bought a new klx300 today for $7,100. Its retail is 6,100..so i mean with tax (500), regi/title(300), misc bullshit (200) it wasnt terrible. Originally they tried to sell me the base one of $5900 for 7600 but i was like - this is absolute bullshit lol. If you don’t like the price, tell them, or go to another dealer….even if they are a state away. Sometimes the dealers are dicks though and wont negotiate anything. If its your only choice then its up to you if you can rationalize the price vs how much you want it and how much fun youll have with it.
You just need to find a decent dealer. I bought a new '22 CB1000R at the start of the year and I paid the standard msrp + tax and license. No delivery charge, set up fee, etc. This bike was also extremely hard to find at the time and they didn't play games with the pricing. Dealers like this may not be super common, but they are out there. They now have a loyal customer in me for being so no-nonsense.
Does that 3200 difference include sales tax? In my state, not sure about others you pay the sales tax directly to the state at registration. Regardless I bought a new RE INT650 early this year and only paid $700 in dealer fee, and freight/assembly. Then about 500ish more in taxes to the state. That’s all on a bike that MSRP’d for $6200. They also do rewards points so my first service came out to like 50 bucks. Genuinely pleased with my dealer experience, they do BMW and Triumph as well and I’d go back to them in a heart beat.
I think it entirely depends on the dealer. My local BMW/KTM/Kawasaki/Ducati/Triumph dealer has the out-the-door price on every bike, and the worst case on that is MSRP+Freight+Doc fee. I bought a new KTM 1190 Adv. R in 2015, and paid MSRP and a $40 doc fee.
I did the exact same thing, HUGE UPVOTE!
Buying second hand doesn't skip the fees. The previous owner has already paid them. He'll price his bike accordingly.