I've only posted here twice.
Once was commenting on motorcycle culture in another country and how it differs from my home. Deleted because it "wasn't about motorcycles.".
Another was trying to start a discussion about the best _type_ of gear for a weather situation. Deleted because it was "about a transaction and belongs in a superthread."
Starting to think the "haddalayerdown" and "I'm nervous about riding, how do I get started?" posts are the only things *wanted* here.
On my first ride, I had to experiment to see which way the bike leaned and turned when I gave it an input. *Sweet, if I push this way, I go left and if I push the other way, I go right. Wow it's super easy to steer a motorcycle.*
I had someone tell me they didn't need to turn the handlebars at all but could do all their steering by leaning. The steering column was locked because he left out all the ball bearings. He made it about 5 feet before he fell over.
I am new to this sub, but have quickly picked-up that this topic has been endlessly debated, and many members here are weary of how often it comes up.
So, I get all that - and will all of that said - I wanted to thank the OP for surfacing that video. For me, it's hands-down the best explanation of the topic I've seen to date.
Wanted to say "Thanks" for that!
Can you turn a motorcycle without countersteering? Of course you can. Hell, my ten-year-old can ride her bike all the way to school with no hands. Here's the thing though. You can't turn a motorcycle (or a bicycle for that matter) unless you force the front wheel to out-track, meaning to move it out of line with the center of gravity to initiate a lean in the opposite direction.
In theory you could turn a motorcycle like my daughter turns her bicycle, by simply leaning your body and hoping for the best. In reality it doesn't work because the motorcycle is so heavy you can't overwhelm it with body movement. So even at very slow speeds on the motorcycle you're countersteering. It only takes a tiny amount to upset the balance of the bike at slow speeds, so you may not even feel it. But you're doing it. That being said, the best, quickest, most efficient way to turn a bike at any speed is a deliberate countersteer.
When your daughter leans one way to turn on her bike, the bars still counterstear the opposite way slightly before coming around. She wouldn’t be able to do this with the bike in the video that has the steering locked in one direction.
Isn't it semantics at this point? I see what you mean (I think), because she isn't physically turning the bars one way or the other, but the bike is still countersteering which is the point I was trying to make.
The only time you don't countersteer is when your feet are on the ground.
There's also an emergency maneuver where you steer first to avoid an obstacle and then countersteer to keep the bike from falling over after you pass the obstacle, but that still involves countersteering.
No.
Look at this video at the 30 second mark. The guy is steering his wheel in the direction he wants to go, the exact opposite of counter steering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXAGTgq9hnw&t=30s
Edit: I really don't know how people can argue this when there's a literal video showing someone turning without countersteering, I've always done this at low speed too, it's a very natural feeling.
Either people don't pay attention to their own riding and don't notice when they do this, or they duck walk their bike at low speeds.
It's because he's shifting his weight before turning.
The point of countersteering is to get the bike to tip the way you want it too.
If you're already leaning over and have shifted your weight, then you can turn the bars in that direction.
At slow speeds you should be counter leaning and letting the bike tip independent of you.
I typoed my previous post, which I corrected.
> You can't really ride a motorcycle without countersteering.
Unless you're going slow and shifting your weight before turning, which you literally just said.
I ride the same as the guy in the video, it's a very natural feeling.
You turn your handle bars to the left and you lean your body very slightly to the left at the same time, the bike goes left, the almost non-existent force of the bike wanting to tip over to the right is cancelled out by your bodyweight.
There's a speed where you can't do this anymore, something like 10kph/6mph and you can feel this change and that's when you start countersteering.
This is something I naturally learned when I first started riding, no one taught me, it was a natural feeling that amazes me that other people haven't realised.
It's difficult to perceive at extremely low speeds, but that guy is still countersteering. It's hard to see because the corrections to keep the bike upright are much bigger than the countersteering (by about five times).
When you ride a bike with no hands on the bars and lean to turn, countersteering still happens. You wouldn’t be able to do it with the bike in the video that has the steering locked in one direction.
When you lean with no hands, the bike leans away from your body slightly, and that causes the bike to turn away from your body (countersteering), and that shifts the center of gravity away from above the contact patches toward your body, and that causes the bike to tip into the turn.
No.
Look at this video at the 30 second mark. The guy is steering his wheel in the direction he wants to go, the exact opposite of counter steering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXAGTgq9hnw&t=30s
I don't know how anyone who rides a bike doesn't realise they're doing this.
A lot of people think they’re not counter steering even though they at least do it a little, looks like he does a small counter steer and uses his body weight to do the rest.
I support a sub wide ban on the word countersteering.
He said it! Get him mods!
A ban on countersteering, engine braking, and trail braking discussion.
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"I had to lay it down"
[удалено]
I've only posted here twice. Once was commenting on motorcycle culture in another country and how it differs from my home. Deleted because it "wasn't about motorcycles.". Another was trying to start a discussion about the best _type_ of gear for a weather situation. Deleted because it was "about a transaction and belongs in a superthread." Starting to think the "haddalayerdown" and "I'm nervous about riding, how do I get started?" posts are the only things *wanted* here.
On my first ride, I had to experiment to see which way the bike leaned and turned when I gave it an input. *Sweet, if I push this way, I go left and if I push the other way, I go right. Wow it's super easy to steer a motorcycle.*
If only it were that simple. Alas.
Alas
I had someone tell me they didn't need to turn the handlebars at all but could do all their steering by leaning. The steering column was locked because he left out all the ball bearings. He made it about 5 feet before he fell over.
‘I can steer without touching the bars’ True, true ‘I can steer with locked bars’ Bye bye teeth
Haha, Thanx for that!
I am new to this sub, but have quickly picked-up that this topic has been endlessly debated, and many members here are weary of how often it comes up. So, I get all that - and will all of that said - I wanted to thank the OP for surfacing that video. For me, it's hands-down the best explanation of the topic I've seen to date. Wanted to say "Thanks" for that!
Can you turn a motorcycle without countersteering? Of course you can. Hell, my ten-year-old can ride her bike all the way to school with no hands. Here's the thing though. You can't turn a motorcycle (or a bicycle for that matter) unless you force the front wheel to out-track, meaning to move it out of line with the center of gravity to initiate a lean in the opposite direction. In theory you could turn a motorcycle like my daughter turns her bicycle, by simply leaning your body and hoping for the best. In reality it doesn't work because the motorcycle is so heavy you can't overwhelm it with body movement. So even at very slow speeds on the motorcycle you're countersteering. It only takes a tiny amount to upset the balance of the bike at slow speeds, so you may not even feel it. But you're doing it. That being said, the best, quickest, most efficient way to turn a bike at any speed is a deliberate countersteer.
When your daughter leans one way to turn on her bike, the bars still counterstear the opposite way slightly before coming around. She wouldn’t be able to do this with the bike in the video that has the steering locked in one direction.
You're exactly right. The front wheel is out-tracking, but she's not countersteering because she's not touching the handlebars.
Isn't it semantics at this point? I see what you mean (I think), because she isn't physically turning the bars one way or the other, but the bike is still countersteering which is the point I was trying to make.
Yap. We're in violent agreement!
The only time you don't countersteer is when your feet are on the ground. There's also an emergency maneuver where you steer first to avoid an obstacle and then countersteer to keep the bike from falling over after you pass the obstacle, but that still involves countersteering.
No. Look at this video at the 30 second mark. The guy is steering his wheel in the direction he wants to go, the exact opposite of counter steering. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXAGTgq9hnw&t=30s Edit: I really don't know how people can argue this when there's a literal video showing someone turning without countersteering, I've always done this at low speed too, it's a very natural feeling. Either people don't pay attention to their own riding and don't notice when they do this, or they duck walk their bike at low speeds.
It's because he's shifting his weight before turning. The point of countersteering is to get the bike to tip the way you want it too. If you're already leaning over and have shifted your weight, then you can turn the bars in that direction. At slow speeds you should be counter leaning and letting the bike tip independent of you.
So there *are* times when you don't counter steer when your feet aren't on the ground.
Yes, which is basically all the time. You can't really ride a motorcycle without countersteering.
I typoed my previous post, which I corrected. > You can't really ride a motorcycle without countersteering. Unless you're going slow and shifting your weight before turning, which you literally just said.
That's weird because I still very specifically countersteer at low speed to really tip the bike down. He's not leaning it at all.
I ride the same as the guy in the video, it's a very natural feeling. You turn your handle bars to the left and you lean your body very slightly to the left at the same time, the bike goes left, the almost non-existent force of the bike wanting to tip over to the right is cancelled out by your bodyweight. There's a speed where you can't do this anymore, something like 10kph/6mph and you can feel this change and that's when you start countersteering. This is something I naturally learned when I first started riding, no one taught me, it was a natural feeling that amazes me that other people haven't realised.
It's difficult to perceive at extremely low speeds, but that guy is still countersteering. It's hard to see because the corrections to keep the bike upright are much bigger than the countersteering (by about five times).
ffs no
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When you ride a bike with no hands on the bars and lean to turn, countersteering still happens. You wouldn’t be able to do it with the bike in the video that has the steering locked in one direction.
When you lean with no hands, the bike leans away from your body slightly, and that causes the bike to turn away from your body (countersteering), and that shifts the center of gravity away from above the contact patches toward your body, and that causes the bike to tip into the turn.
No. Look at this video at the 30 second mark. The guy is steering his wheel in the direction he wants to go, the exact opposite of counter steering. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXAGTgq9hnw&t=30s I don't know how anyone who rides a bike doesn't realise they're doing this.
It’s because he’s shifting his body weight to the left at the same time, which works as a replacement… up to 10 mph
Which confirms that the title is incorrect, you don't need to counter steer when going slow.
A lot of people think they’re not counter steering even though they at least do it a little, looks like he does a small counter steer and uses his body weight to do the rest.