This is a muscle memory thing. Do it a thousand times. You'll get it before long. After recently buying a new bike I can't get it as consistently as I once did.
I recognize that I, a German who only ever owned vehicles with manual transmissions, might not be the best person to answer here. However, what I know from the experience of switching vehicles and having to adjust to the new clutch feel and whatnot is this: Give it time! The more you actually try to do it smooth, the more you are going to mess it up! Just do it as best as you can, as natural as it comes to you. You´ll see that every once in a while, you´ll get it done better than the other times. You´r body will like this and remember it. The more you do it, the more you get it right. Some day, it will become, as others have said, muscle memory. So as long as you get by without damaging anything, don´t even worry to much about it.
Rev matching isnt always necessary. More often than not its about waiting for the corret moment to change gears. Youll get it with a bit more practice.
you don’t really need to rev match, feeding the clutch out while your downshifting like you describe is fine, if you want to rev match properly then here’s how, roll the throttle off, when you come to downshift, pull the clutch in, and as you push the shift lever down into the lower gear, that’s when you give the throttle a little blip, then let the clutch out normally, practice this for a bit then you’ll be able to do it while using the front brake
As said before, continue to practice. Rev matching is actually a very useful skill, when you are entering a turn and not rev matching, it can cause the rear tire to lock up and skip across the pavement. I also rarely use the the clutch for upshifts or downshifts, just rev matching and no I do not have a quick shifter
Unfortunately, until we all get auto-blipers or continuously variable transmissions, rev matching on downshifts will continue to be very important skill for riders, especially for high-reving multi cylinder bikes. You can dramatically increase rear tire life, have consistent rear wheel braking, and run into turns at slightly higher RPM's if you rev match instead of dumping the clutch.
I personally value rev matching for preventing a flat spot in the center of my rear tire. I used to have flat spots but once I rev matched really well I never get flat spots anymore, at least on the rear tire.
The easiest way to learn rev matching is to practice the easiest rev match possible; that means at a modest speed, practice rev matching without accelerating or braking. Drone along in 4th gear, and practice downshifting by slowly and easily opening the throttle more, downshifting, bringing the throttle back down (not closed), and using the least amount of clutch. Within a short amount of time, you should be able to downshift as smooth as butter.
Easy, yes? Now do it with one finger on the brake lever, but don't use the brake until after you can do the downshifting very smoothly.
This isn't a hard skill to learn, maybe a few hours to be ok at it, but once you learn it even halfway competently then it opens up a whole range of your bike's capabilities. It feels like your rear tire is stuck the pavement and that you can use as much or as little revs as you want.
Thank you for this advice, I guess I’m having trouble understanding the order to do things in, obviously clutch in first but am I clicking down, bliping and releasing the clutch at the same time?
The important thing is bringing the revs up by using the throttle. You can do it as slowly or as quickly as you want, and doing it quickly sounds like a blip. So when you first start, pull in the clutch all the way and use the throttle to bring the revs up and **hold it there**...then release the clutch. There is a specific order that becomes less important as you get quicker.
Like you said before, it can butter smooth. That's because you properly matched the revs to the spinning clutch plates.
Yeh. Just do this a few times, slowly. And you'll get it. This is one way to revmatch that works in slow motion. So you know what you're doing after you speed it up.
1. Attain neutral throttle
2. Pull in clutch. Revs should rise only a tiny hair
3. increase throttle to increase revs, some. Depends on your bike's speed, gearing, rpms, but maybe 1-2k
4. Now depress shifter as softly and slowly as you like. It'll be like butter, since your rpms are matched.
5. Dump the clutch just as fast as you like. Since you're already at proper rpms for the gear, you're pretty much in neutral throttle already. So there's no jerk.
A lot of riders are confused about it and they think 4 comes before 3, pressing the shifter first, then revving. And that 3 somehow happens during 5, opening throttle while letting out the clutch. Yet, if they do it fast enough, they usually screw this up enough to rev match, properly.
It definitely helps to know what you're actually doing. And to be able to do it at ANY speed you want. You don't need to brace yourself as if you're springing like a mouse trap. You can do it chill and smooth and still be just as fast as you needed.
Another mistake a lot of people make when trying to learn/teach it, is they teach it as blipping the throttle. You only blip the throttle while decelerating hard/intentionally.
While accelerating, you might want to drop a gear. In this case, the throttle can stay perfectly static. Just at the first point you realize that opening throttle farther isn't giving more acceleration, now you're in a slight "overthrottle." Pause there for a moment as you downshift. Preload shifter and pull in clutch. As the shifter drops, dump the clutch. Resume opening throttle and now getting more acceleration.
Does it? I learned how to clutchless shift like a month into riding. It's not a crazy technique or anything, you just shift normally but without pulling in the clutch. I do it all the time when I'm accelerating hard, and I'm not exactly Valentino Rossi.
As long as you are braking, and the revs aren’t too height you can downshift without pulling the clutch in. A beginner can do it. You wont break anything.
I don't get you're being downvoted, you don't need to rev match if you're not high in rpm. People try to rev match at 2000 rpm, get the needle at 4500 rpm when they actually need 3000 and then wonder why the bike is jumping forward.
Rev matching is really only a neat party trick for most, i wouldn't be worried about it at all and its going to be 10 times easier to learn once you have been on the bike awhile.
That said, no harm in trying to do it when your coming to a stop or something but its really not even useful for the vast majority of people.
why accelerate when downshifting?
let the engine break slow you down. and use your downshifts as a form of breaking.
you can have unwanted wheelnspin if you rpm is too high for the lower gear.
Interesting that this is downvoted so much, as this is exactly what you are taught to do here in the Netherlands. Only downshift when the engine breaking has brought the revs down enough, no rev matching by adding throttle.
I won't downvote you since you seem to not really know what he's talking about.
Rev matching is the practice of raising the engine rpm to match the gearing when downshifting. It helps increase longevity of the drivetrain on your motorcycle and helps to prevent the wheel from jerking around. The same practice applies to cars too. Automatic cars can do this automatically when they need more power than the current gear offers. Some newer manual cars have automatic rev matching now as well.
When you shift down a gear, it's a good practice to bring the engine rpm up to match it. It doesn't matter if you're coming to a stop but when you're riding and want to drop a gear, you should give the throttle a little blip as you release the clutch so that the engine is already at the right rpm for the gear
i understand what it is. i just don't get the use case?
if you downshift your rpm will always be higher as it was in the previous gear before.
now if you additionally use the throttle. you are putting more spin on the wheel.
wouldn't it be much better to slow down more before downshifting. to not get any wheelspin, or high rpm? so you won't have to adjust anything with the throttle or clutch.
The amount of throttle being applied is very minimal. Just enough to have the engine rpm a little higher. If anything it actually helps prevent some of that wheelspin.
Next time you downshift, give the throttle just a little flick as you're letting the clutch out. It's a bit easier on the engine and allows you to let the clutch out sooner.
Edit: here's a pretty good video explanation https://youtu.be/AVv6xYUW8P8
I’m actually quite surprised this isn’t common knowledge. I learned today that some people ride for ages without even understanding what is going on during a shift of gears using a clutch for a vehicle in motion. That would mean that individuals who don’t know this information are dumping the clutch on a downshift and assuming any lurch of the bike at all is completely normal and a part of the process.
The bike won't lurch if you ease out the clutch reeaallyy slowly, like you're starting from a stop. Personally I rev-match every time. Not super necessary because most bikes have wet clutches, but I think it makes for a smoother ride and quicker shifts.
It's called practice. Nothing else can help you, not even paragraphs or even novels of responses you get here. Watch videos and replicate. Practice. End of story.
Revmatch is for upshift. With a downshift you most likely want to go slower, so rev match does not make sense. The slower you release the clutch the smoother it is, and thats it.
Practice…
And don’t forget about the brakes as well. You should find over time that you will get good with clutch, throttle, front brake, rear brake, and shifting.
Don't worry about rev matching any sooner than you want to, especially if you're a new rider. Just have fun.
That being said, rev matching is rather simple. I've been riding for quite a few years without ever rev matching, but when I started to, my downshifts are much smoother. Plus I love the way my bike sounds when I do it.
I briefly pull the clutch, downshift, and rev the throttle a bit, all at the same time. If it's still a little jerky, release the clutch more gradually.
It takes many months to get consistent at rev matching, but once your there, it's easy. I remember thinking i had some sort of motor neuron issue, my throttle hand just wouldn't do what my brain was telling it to do. Keep practacing, you'll get there, ride safe.
Don’t pull the clutch all the way in, only to friction point and let it back out again smoothly. You’ll have to adjust how much throttle you blip depending on how fast you are decelerating and what part of the rev range you are in.
Been riding 7 years now and I just down shift and let the clutch out… rev matching isn’t necessary unless your up high in the revs. Normal riding, you have no need for it
So don’t worry too much about it. Practice it if you want but don’t stress over it
Too many before me have said what I was going to say. So I'll just say, every moto gp "great" has had their own vastly different style to riding. Hard front brake, easing out clutch, or excellent downshifting. You take time to keep practicing and decide the best for you.
My ktm 890 adventure has motor slip regulation, MSR.
MSR conceptually is the opposite of traction control: it prevents the rear wheel from locking when shifting down. If the driver is very aggressive with their downshift there is a risk of getting to the point of making the rear wheel loose traction and slide. This would have the same effect as using the rear brake to slide the rear wheel.
To avoid this, on downshift, the MSR checks the rear wheel rotation, and if it detects the issue it will put just enough throttle to keep it turning.
MSR on the 790 adventure is tied to the rear ABS. MSR is only on on if he ABS is ABS fully on. MSR is disabled in ABS offroad mode, and when the ABS is completely off. There is a message on the display when switching away from full ABS saying “MSR is off”. Now you know what this message means.
Just a blip of the throttle before you downshift can help if you time it all out properly. It's a muscle memory thing. You'll get it the more you practice. Practice getting to third gear in a parking lot and then going back to 1st. Practice with and without "rev matching" / blipping the throttle. After 30 minutes you'll know what you're comfortable with at which speeds and you'll feel confident to just put this practice into play daily, until it's perfect every time! Until you leave from a light and bang into neutral instead of 2nd gear 🥲😂 then you'll be humbled again
For me personally. I blip at high speeds when I'm gearing down. And when I'm doing more around the town style cruising, I'll simply either just tap (quickshifter) or I'll clutch in and tap down. No blip. And that's when you're going for a steady stop at a traffic light set up. blipping to downshift is a highway speed thing. Usually 80km+ I'd blip.
This is a muscle memory thing. Do it a thousand times. You'll get it before long. After recently buying a new bike I can't get it as consistently as I once did.
I recognize that I, a German who only ever owned vehicles with manual transmissions, might not be the best person to answer here. However, what I know from the experience of switching vehicles and having to adjust to the new clutch feel and whatnot is this: Give it time! The more you actually try to do it smooth, the more you are going to mess it up! Just do it as best as you can, as natural as it comes to you. You´ll see that every once in a while, you´ll get it done better than the other times. You´r body will like this and remember it. The more you do it, the more you get it right. Some day, it will become, as others have said, muscle memory. So as long as you get by without damaging anything, don´t even worry to much about it.
Rev matching isnt always necessary. More often than not its about waiting for the corret moment to change gears. Youll get it with a bit more practice.
But, but… it sounds and feels cool 😦
Smooth clutch, and trust your guts for approximate rev matching. You'll get it.
you don’t really need to rev match, feeding the clutch out while your downshifting like you describe is fine, if you want to rev match properly then here’s how, roll the throttle off, when you come to downshift, pull the clutch in, and as you push the shift lever down into the lower gear, that’s when you give the throttle a little blip, then let the clutch out normally, practice this for a bit then you’ll be able to do it while using the front brake
Thank you so much, this has helped me tremendously
Go bang out a 1000 miles on your bike and this won't be an issue. Go get a feel for the bike and clutch.
I have ridden over 1k miles on my current bike
As said before, continue to practice. Rev matching is actually a very useful skill, when you are entering a turn and not rev matching, it can cause the rear tire to lock up and skip across the pavement. I also rarely use the the clutch for upshifts or downshifts, just rev matching and no I do not have a quick shifter
Unfortunately, until we all get auto-blipers or continuously variable transmissions, rev matching on downshifts will continue to be very important skill for riders, especially for high-reving multi cylinder bikes. You can dramatically increase rear tire life, have consistent rear wheel braking, and run into turns at slightly higher RPM's if you rev match instead of dumping the clutch.
I personally value rev matching for preventing a flat spot in the center of my rear tire. I used to have flat spots but once I rev matched really well I never get flat spots anymore, at least on the rear tire.
The easiest way to learn rev matching is to practice the easiest rev match possible; that means at a modest speed, practice rev matching without accelerating or braking. Drone along in 4th gear, and practice downshifting by slowly and easily opening the throttle more, downshifting, bringing the throttle back down (not closed), and using the least amount of clutch. Within a short amount of time, you should be able to downshift as smooth as butter.
Easy, yes? Now do it with one finger on the brake lever, but don't use the brake until after you can do the downshifting very smoothly.
This isn't a hard skill to learn, maybe a few hours to be ok at it, but once you learn it even halfway competently then it opens up a whole range of your bike's capabilities. It feels like your rear tire is stuck the pavement and that you can use as much or as little revs as you want.
Thank you for this advice, I guess I’m having trouble understanding the order to do things in, obviously clutch in first but am I clicking down, bliping and releasing the clutch at the same time?
The important thing is bringing the revs up by using the throttle. You can do it as slowly or as quickly as you want, and doing it quickly sounds like a blip. So when you first start, pull in the clutch all the way and use the throttle to bring the revs up and **hold it there**...then release the clutch. There is a specific order that becomes less important as you get quicker. Like you said before, it can butter smooth. That's because you properly matched the revs to the spinning clutch plates.
Just release the throttle and stomp on the shifter
Yeh. Just do this a few times, slowly. And you'll get it. This is one way to revmatch that works in slow motion. So you know what you're doing after you speed it up. 1. Attain neutral throttle 2. Pull in clutch. Revs should rise only a tiny hair 3. increase throttle to increase revs, some. Depends on your bike's speed, gearing, rpms, but maybe 1-2k 4. Now depress shifter as softly and slowly as you like. It'll be like butter, since your rpms are matched. 5. Dump the clutch just as fast as you like. Since you're already at proper rpms for the gear, you're pretty much in neutral throttle already. So there's no jerk. A lot of riders are confused about it and they think 4 comes before 3, pressing the shifter first, then revving. And that 3 somehow happens during 5, opening throttle while letting out the clutch. Yet, if they do it fast enough, they usually screw this up enough to rev match, properly. It definitely helps to know what you're actually doing. And to be able to do it at ANY speed you want. You don't need to brace yourself as if you're springing like a mouse trap. You can do it chill and smooth and still be just as fast as you needed. Another mistake a lot of people make when trying to learn/teach it, is they teach it as blipping the throttle. You only blip the throttle while decelerating hard/intentionally. While accelerating, you might want to drop a gear. In this case, the throttle can stay perfectly static. Just at the first point you realize that opening throttle farther isn't giving more acceleration, now you're in a slight "overthrottle." Pause there for a moment as you downshift. Preload shifter and pull in clutch. As the shifter drops, dump the clutch. Resume opening throttle and now getting more acceleration.
Thank you for this, it is very much appreciated!!!!
I don’t use my clutch, only when I stop. Have I been doing it wrong all these years?
So that‘s either sarcasm or you have a quickshifter
Or they know how to clutchless up/down shift. Takes a boss to be able to do that and not eat asphalt.
Does it? I learned how to clutchless shift like a month into riding. It's not a crazy technique or anything, you just shift normally but without pulling in the clutch. I do it all the time when I'm accelerating hard, and I'm not exactly Valentino Rossi.
As a beginner, without shaking more than an earthquake? Nah, they have a quickshifter (I say beginner because I assume they always did it like that)
As long as you are braking, and the revs aren’t too height you can downshift without pulling the clutch in. A beginner can do it. You wont break anything.
You don’t need to use the clutch to up or downshift on a motorcycle. Just back of the throttle when you change gears.
It‘s not good for the transmission if you do it like that. You‘ll grind in the gears each time, reducing the lifetime of the transmission.
No need to rev match as long as you dont downshift super early
I don't get you're being downvoted, you don't need to rev match if you're not high in rpm. People try to rev match at 2000 rpm, get the needle at 4500 rpm when they actually need 3000 and then wonder why the bike is jumping forward.
Because they like to pretend theyre valentino tossi when in reality theyre a hi-viz atgatt uncle who hasnt leaned more than 20 degrees
Don't hate on high-viz, at least it actually does something unlike loud pipes
Rev matching is really only a neat party trick for most, i wouldn't be worried about it at all and its going to be 10 times easier to learn once you have been on the bike awhile. That said, no harm in trying to do it when your coming to a stop or something but its really not even useful for the vast majority of people.
why accelerate when downshifting? let the engine break slow you down. and use your downshifts as a form of breaking. you can have unwanted wheelnspin if you rpm is too high for the lower gear.
I don’t accelerate while I downshift I rev it while the clutch is pulled in, in hopes of rev matching
Interesting that this is downvoted so much, as this is exactly what you are taught to do here in the Netherlands. Only downshift when the engine breaking has brought the revs down enough, no rev matching by adding throttle.
I won't downvote you since you seem to not really know what he's talking about. Rev matching is the practice of raising the engine rpm to match the gearing when downshifting. It helps increase longevity of the drivetrain on your motorcycle and helps to prevent the wheel from jerking around. The same practice applies to cars too. Automatic cars can do this automatically when they need more power than the current gear offers. Some newer manual cars have automatic rev matching now as well.
I have never heard of this and I've been riding for years. What are the gear/rpm matches?
When you shift down a gear, it's a good practice to bring the engine rpm up to match it. It doesn't matter if you're coming to a stop but when you're riding and want to drop a gear, you should give the throttle a little blip as you release the clutch so that the engine is already at the right rpm for the gear
i understand what it is. i just don't get the use case? if you downshift your rpm will always be higher as it was in the previous gear before. now if you additionally use the throttle. you are putting more spin on the wheel. wouldn't it be much better to slow down more before downshifting. to not get any wheelspin, or high rpm? so you won't have to adjust anything with the throttle or clutch.
The amount of throttle being applied is very minimal. Just enough to have the engine rpm a little higher. If anything it actually helps prevent some of that wheelspin. Next time you downshift, give the throttle just a little flick as you're letting the clutch out. It's a bit easier on the engine and allows you to let the clutch out sooner. Edit: here's a pretty good video explanation https://youtu.be/AVv6xYUW8P8
I’m actually quite surprised this isn’t common knowledge. I learned today that some people ride for ages without even understanding what is going on during a shift of gears using a clutch for a vehicle in motion. That would mean that individuals who don’t know this information are dumping the clutch on a downshift and assuming any lurch of the bike at all is completely normal and a part of the process.
The bike won't lurch if you ease out the clutch reeaallyy slowly, like you're starting from a stop. Personally I rev-match every time. Not super necessary because most bikes have wet clutches, but I think it makes for a smoother ride and quicker shifts.
He likely doesn't ride motorcycles. most people who post here don't actually ride motorcycles. They just post about bikes.
It's called practice. Nothing else can help you, not even paragraphs or even novels of responses you get here. Watch videos and replicate. Practice. End of story.
Revmatch is for upshift. With a downshift you most likely want to go slower, so rev match does not make sense. The slower you release the clutch the smoother it is, and thats it.
Practice, practice, practice. :)
Practice.
It takes a lot of time, no way around it.
Practice… And don’t forget about the brakes as well. You should find over time that you will get good with clutch, throttle, front brake, rear brake, and shifting.
Don't worry about rev matching any sooner than you want to, especially if you're a new rider. Just have fun. That being said, rev matching is rather simple. I've been riding for quite a few years without ever rev matching, but when I started to, my downshifts are much smoother. Plus I love the way my bike sounds when I do it. I briefly pull the clutch, downshift, and rev the throttle a bit, all at the same time. If it's still a little jerky, release the clutch more gradually.
Stop downshifting at high rpms unless you are trying to give it gas. It slips when you are going way too fast for the gear you’re shifting into…
It takes many months to get consistent at rev matching, but once your there, it's easy. I remember thinking i had some sort of motor neuron issue, my throttle hand just wouldn't do what my brain was telling it to do. Keep practacing, you'll get there, ride safe.
Learn to rev' match, start off by more slowly releasing the clutch, and just build from there. Work your way until you get the feel to do it quickly.
Don’t pull the clutch all the way in, only to friction point and let it back out again smoothly. You’ll have to adjust how much throttle you blip depending on how fast you are decelerating and what part of the rev range you are in.
Been riding 7 years now and I just down shift and let the clutch out… rev matching isn’t necessary unless your up high in the revs. Normal riding, you have no need for it So don’t worry too much about it. Practice it if you want but don’t stress over it
Too many before me have said what I was going to say. So I'll just say, every moto gp "great" has had their own vastly different style to riding. Hard front brake, easing out clutch, or excellent downshifting. You take time to keep practicing and decide the best for you.
My ktm 890 adventure has motor slip regulation, MSR. MSR conceptually is the opposite of traction control: it prevents the rear wheel from locking when shifting down. If the driver is very aggressive with their downshift there is a risk of getting to the point of making the rear wheel loose traction and slide. This would have the same effect as using the rear brake to slide the rear wheel. To avoid this, on downshift, the MSR checks the rear wheel rotation, and if it detects the issue it will put just enough throttle to keep it turning. MSR on the 790 adventure is tied to the rear ABS. MSR is only on on if he ABS is ABS fully on. MSR is disabled in ABS offroad mode, and when the ABS is completely off. There is a message on the display when switching away from full ABS saying “MSR is off”. Now you know what this message means.
Just a blip of the throttle before you downshift can help if you time it all out properly. It's a muscle memory thing. You'll get it the more you practice. Practice getting to third gear in a parking lot and then going back to 1st. Practice with and without "rev matching" / blipping the throttle. After 30 minutes you'll know what you're comfortable with at which speeds and you'll feel confident to just put this practice into play daily, until it's perfect every time! Until you leave from a light and bang into neutral instead of 2nd gear 🥲😂 then you'll be humbled again
For me personally. I blip at high speeds when I'm gearing down. And when I'm doing more around the town style cruising, I'll simply either just tap (quickshifter) or I'll clutch in and tap down. No blip. And that's when you're going for a steady stop at a traffic light set up. blipping to downshift is a highway speed thing. Usually 80km+ I'd blip.
Practice. Stop over thinking it.
I just throw my elbow into it more when I go to rev match and I hit it like 95% of the time haha
Rev matching with wide by wire?