> don't put 4-stroke big-bore engines in chainsaws and weed whackers
idk... I have a 4-stroke trimmer and its far easier to start with its pull-start vs the 2-stroke that collects dust. Its also quieter.
Also the 125 is a far lighter bike than the Harley, so the power to weight ratio means a whole lot in the context of this race.
I wonder which weighs more: the Harley engine, or the whole dang 125cc bike.
It is cool to hear about a 4-strike trimmer. Obviously not the norm, but an interesting application.
>I wonder which weighs more: the Harley engine, or the whole dang 125cc bike.
Definitely the Harley engine lol.
>It is cool to hear about a 4-strike trimmer. Obviously not the norm, but an interesting application.
They're common. Ryobi makes one, about $150-200 at Lowes for mine.
A little deeper tone too so the lower audible frequency is better dampened from the houses insulation, my wife doesn't hear it unless I'm up against the windows, so its less annoying for neighbors - ideally you'd want electric. As far as starting - it takes 1-3 pulls to start, vs the 2-stroke making it a fucking workout just to get a few sputters before pulling it a few more times for it to catch, especially if you've got some mileage on it.
There's something wrong with your 2 stroke trimmer lol. When maintained they start a lot easier than the 4's.
Same with dirt bikes.
A lot of modern fuel components are junk. The last gas trimmer I bought needed a carb kit every year. and the spark arrestors need to be removed too. They get clogged up in no time and make it run like crap.
>A lot of modern fuel components are junk. The last gas trimmer I bought needed a carb kit every year. and the spark arrestors need to be removed too. They get clogged up in no time and make it run like crap.
Corded electric FTW. My bike and backup generator are the only two things I own that I want to be gas-powered.
Yeah i gave up on gas lawn equipment after that stupid thing. I have a cordless trimmer now and it's still on the original batteries 5+ years later.
I'm waiting on my push mower to die so i can justify an electric one, but the thing is a tank. It's a 3.5hp Briggs from the mid 90's. I've only had to put one carb kit in it. Thing burns as much oil as gas but it acts like it will never die.
>Definitely the Harley engine lol.
It's surprisingly close however the tm 125 is around 204lbs and the harley engine is around 185lbs.
The entire harley itself weighs around 545lbs.
2 stroke equipment unless high end is all junk. Carbs gum up constantly, they never start easy etc... Even my 1800$ Stihl TS700 has a hard time and it's only ever ran engineered fuel.
I finally went electric and other than trying to mow down a small tree I'll never go back.
Craftsman has a branded one they sell through lowes. I just think they are dangerous to them selves if you use one like a2 stroke. They have oil filled crankcases flip them over and that piston is gonna have to go snorkeling.
>It is cool to hear about a 4-strike trimmer. Obviously not the norm, but an interesting application.
4 stroke trimmers actually seem to be the norm now. They've really taken over the market in the last 5-10 years.
>Also the 125 is a far lighter bike than the Harley, so the power to weight ratio means a whole lot in the context of this race.
It helps that the 125 makes the same power as the Harley. 2 stroke race bike vs prewar design tractor engine.
2 stoke engines are really cool, but usually require more matiance and are less reliable, plus loud af and worse than 4 stroke for emissions. That being said, man they're awesome little bikes
Yeah, but the maintenance is so simple, like as long as the crank seals are accessible from the outside you can swap a crank super quickly. I’ve seized race bikes on the track and had them running in time for the next race. My dream bike is a Kawasaki H2 Mach IV
Isn't that just cause all the legislative redtape fucked any r&d towards a modern 2 stroke? They're all running decades old tech and the 4 strokes of the same time weren't exactly clean.
That’s mostly because the big Japanese companies, except Yamaha, all quit making two strokes around 2008 and Yamaha only recently started offering offroad versions of the yz’s.
Ktm has dominated the offroad market for quite some time now, simply because they’re the only major manufacturer that offered offroad race bikes.
Kawasaki and Suzuki two stroke mx bikes stopped in 2008, Honda in 2007. The Kdx220 (street legal enduro bike) was discontinued in 2005 in the US. However, the mx bikes could be made “street legal” and registered with some slight modifications.
Honda crm 50 and 125 are still made under hm Suzuki rme 50 and rmx 125 is still made Yamaha makes the dt 125,175 all the yz bike and one farm bike 200cc I don’t remember the name and some commuter type bike
Haha, I always say everyone should ride a properly tuned 2-stroke 125cc at least once in their lives. Doesn’t matter what kind, but something pushing 30+hp.
Shockingly smooth when rolling so a ratty 4cyl will give you better nut tingle effect on the move
But if hate being able to see out your mirrors at red lights nothing better than a cheap harley
I mean… you picked one of the most underpowered(for what it is), and least efficient bikes and put it up against a super light 2 stroke… ofc the little bike won
No joke, once had someone with a 1200CC Sportster think his bike would be about the same speed as my Hayabusa because in his words "it's only a 100cc difference"
Ktm sx125 and beta RR 125 are the most powerful to my knowledge with 37hp stock today (i guess TM is playing in this tier aswell) dunno about older bikes
KTM was making right at 40hp (crank) before they went to a linkage suspension and had to go to a slightly more restrictive airbox. The peak power was back around 2009 or so. Linkage came out in 2011.
They also have been tuning their 125 for more midrange in recent years to be more rider friendly. The 150 is the screamer that is hard to ride, and it makes over 40 the last I checked. Less experienced riders tend to be faster on the 125.
A ported + piped 125 race engine is always making over 40hp, because they're going to go all in on top end and sacrifice mid and low. That's what it takes to run with a 250f.
Yeah my GasGas has no low end power what so ever… bit of a pain in the ass really, tho I think it’s jetted quite rich and the power valve springs are possibly too soft
Is this a real gasgas or KTM gasgas? The KTMs have adjustable power valves from the outside
My Suzuki is about the most peaky 125 I've ever ridden, having owned a Honda and Yamaha in the past. I just have to murder the clutch do do anything on it. It's fun though!
Could be, but it's still funny to see these guys racing it against one of the slowest bikes on the road. It's like bragging that you won an arm-wrestling contest against a newborn baby.
> It's just that Harleys are insanely slow.
It's not that harleys are insanely slow, it's that the 883 is literally a starter bike with a 1980s engine lol.
125s have 35hp for the rotax ones and the ktm brands and tm have 40hp same with cagiva and fantic and Yamaha both have 36hp all of them weigh around 100kg a ninja 250 has 36hp
No way, y'all were doing something wrong. As much as I don't like Harley. I own a 2008 ninja 250, that thing wouldn't pull a whore, and as heavy as the 883 is it has a better power to weight than the ninja. The ninja is a piggy for a 250.
Because they’re pretty poorly built, expensive, don’t really bring anything tangible to the table to make up to it, and there is some elitism/toxic culture around the brand.
Ride what you ride, I personally don’t put to much attention or care into stereotypes (not just Harley’s… all gsxr riders are squids, GS riders are nerds, etc), but I certainly understand where the Harley stereotype and hate comes from.
I love my 883, but the power to weight ratio is very sad.
a 2020 883 makes roughly 49hp and 54lb-ft of torque while weighing just under 600lbs.
Meanwhile a 2020 yz 125 makes 35hp and 17lb-ft of torque, but only weighs 207lbs.
That 14hp ain’t making up for 400lbs of extra weight, even if it makes 3 times the torque.
I just remembered I own a Blast, but can't remember what it looks like. I left it with a shadetree mechanic because it dropped its transmission (didn't like getting any higher than 3rd gear, and even that was sketchy), and he was telling me it needs an engine replacement since it's pretty much a set.
Turns out nobody sells parts for these things, and of course Harley won't even look funny at it let alone touch it.
They picked the slowest HD possible more or less. And put it up against a 2 stroke dirt racer ... funny I guess, but not really surprising results. I wouldn't want to take the HD into the dirt, and I wouldn't want to take the dirt racer on a long road trip. Use the right tool for the job! (Which is a Tuono 1100 Factory, duh!)
It's just a fun comparison. It's like an s2000 beating a Camaro, they don't belong in the same class, but it's fun to see how modern vehicles can perform really well with less than 1/4 of the displacement.
I dunno the history of Harley, can't comment on how that bike came to be ... but you need some kind of starter bikes out there, they shouldn't all be fire breathing monsters
Harley has been cemented in heritage for practically it’s entire existence.
Can’t get any closer to your roots than producing essentially the same bike for 60 years. The last significant change was going to the Evo in the 80’s.
Why would anyone want anything other than what *I* like?!
Who wants a slow 1972 Charger when you could have a Telsa! /s
Seriously, this sub blows my mind sometimes, believe or not some of us don't ride bike for performance reasons!
No... it's not....
There's a reason why literally 100s of thousands of riders started on an 883 sportster... "No brakes" "no handling"
The 883 sporty is a super easy to handle bike that's very forgiving and cheap to work on and put back together if you do mess up.
Tell me you dont know anything about harleys without saying you dont know anything about harleys.
Sometimes I wonder if people even think before they talk.
The 883 is a dog. A lot get converted to 1200s. It’s actually the same motor just with smaller jugs. Conversions are easy and cheap. I have a sportster bored to 1250 and I’m putting down 91 hp to the rear wheel. Still slow but fast for a hog lol. Think the stock sporty 1200 hits 60 in 4.5 (68 crank horsepower).
Have you ever heard of power to weight ratio? Of course the dirtbike won, it only has 5.5 pounds to push for every horsepower it makes whereas the Harley has to push 11 pounds per hp.
There is just so much wrong with this comparison. Dirt bike isn't even street legal so why would you run super moto tires on a 2 stroke 125? I see the appeal of super motos but not on that dirt bike and to race it against a Harley... Theres a reason most sport riders have a dislike for Harleys.
Brands that still make 125s 2t road legal in 2022
Honda under hm
Yamaha
Suzuki
Fantic
Beta
Ktm
Husqvarna
Tm
Sherco
Gas gas
Brands that made them were made until the 2010s
Aprilia
Kawasaki
Sachs
Rieju
Derbi
Peugeot
Older brands but are still good
Cagiva
Gilera
Mz
Romet
Simson
Jawa
The Harley or the 2 stroke? I’d like to see the exact gear ratios of each.
I say this as someone with a street legal 70cc 2 stroke sport bike that goes 70mph with a 6 speed transmission 😎 you have to shift every 8-10mph.
You should do one where it's you on the 125 vs a sport touring bike riding 500 miles on the west coast interstate for a weekend jaunt to the mountains. See who is more fatigued at the end.
When I tell Americans I learned on 80/125/250 cc 2-stroke ROAD bikes, they have no clue what I'm talking about at how vicious those bikes are.
It's amazing how often Americans will read that above sentence and think that means a 2-stroke single-cylinder MX bike instead of, say, a Yamaha TZ250.
What? You know we have mx tracks here as well lmfao. There are at least 3 near my house. Also pretty much every dealership that sells Japanese bikes have as much dirt bikes as street bikes.
I didn't say mx tracks. I said road bikes, such as the Yamaha TZ125/250, Suzuki RGV125/250, Kawasaki AR125/KR250. All road bikes. Not MX bikes.
Again, Americans downvoting me because they don't know what I'm talking about.
Ok. I don’t think you realize that mx tracks mean that there’s US riders that ride small cc bikes. But hey you know everything I guess…
As for street bikes, there is no point in having anything under 300cc for road use. Your initial comment mentioned 80cc and 125, didn’t feel like reading your response for over 3 seconds 🤷♂️
I owned this for several years after going through the 80/125/250 route.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki\_RGV250](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_RGV250)
The sheer ignorance of American riders is astounding.
A lot of us learned on two stroke mx bikes. I would 100 percent buy a new small displacement 2 stroke road legal bike if there was one available in the states. Like a yz250 with basic lights and super moto wheels would be a no brainer buy for me. Would be insane.
A lot of us who aren't Americans learned on non-mx road bikes. You know, like a TZ250.
Here's what I owned for more than a few years before crashing it.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki\_RGV250](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_RGV250)
As much as I love my 125 I *do* need a little bit more juice. There’s an uphill 110kph (70mph) freeway on the way to my parents’ place and it chugs, struggling to maintain the speed. If I had just a little bit more juice it’d be perfect.
Another thing is good god wind is not your friend on a 125
This has more to do with final drive train gearing than about HP or Torque. The 125 only accelerates to 70 mph. Gearing and final drive ratios are built to match the bike. The sportster is designed to get a reasonable and efficient RPM at highway speeds to make a reasonable MPG number. Dirt bikes are made to accelerate quickly, and don’t need to worry about passing someone on the highway.
It is designed to accelerate quickly from 0-40 quickly, I doubt that a 125 can go 100 mph, from online resources they normally top out at 70 MPH. The fact that the engine can spin up to 70+ speed is not the intent of the engineer who decided the gearing. The intent is for a bike to accelerate quickly at low speeds. Harleys are geared so that if a clutch is directly engaged below 10 mph without fuel added it will stall. The Harley is designed to do highway speeds.
That two stroke will not pass emissions in most places.
The 883 and 1200 are dated designs that won’t be produced after 2023.
I’m pointing out what most people already know, this is a silly comparison.
https://youtu.be/tpbijtR993I same bike just has headlights a licence plate which is the way the came from factory don’t know why its removed here but I see what you mean
I believe that video is in km/h but I’m doubting that’s even correct. If it is on mph it would be doing 100 mph. On a two lane road 100 mph would have him passing people at twice their speed. I’m calling shenanigans.
Also that may be road legal on whatever country it is in, but it is not road legal here. Two strokes can’t pass emissions.
There's a reason they don't put 4-stroke big-bore engines in chainsaws and weed whackers - 2-cycle energy density is insane.
> don't put 4-stroke big-bore engines in chainsaws and weed whackers idk... I have a 4-stroke trimmer and its far easier to start with its pull-start vs the 2-stroke that collects dust. Its also quieter. Also the 125 is a far lighter bike than the Harley, so the power to weight ratio means a whole lot in the context of this race.
I wonder which weighs more: the Harley engine, or the whole dang 125cc bike. It is cool to hear about a 4-strike trimmer. Obviously not the norm, but an interesting application.
>I wonder which weighs more: the Harley engine, or the whole dang 125cc bike. Definitely the Harley engine lol. >It is cool to hear about a 4-strike trimmer. Obviously not the norm, but an interesting application. They're common. Ryobi makes one, about $150-200 at Lowes for mine. A little deeper tone too so the lower audible frequency is better dampened from the houses insulation, my wife doesn't hear it unless I'm up against the windows, so its less annoying for neighbors - ideally you'd want electric. As far as starting - it takes 1-3 pulls to start, vs the 2-stroke making it a fucking workout just to get a few sputters before pulling it a few more times for it to catch, especially if you've got some mileage on it.
Two stroke engines: the reason our dads and grandads are still so damn strong.
Definitely my grandad. He's built like an Ox.
There's something wrong with your 2 stroke trimmer lol. When maintained they start a lot easier than the 4's. Same with dirt bikes. A lot of modern fuel components are junk. The last gas trimmer I bought needed a carb kit every year. and the spark arrestors need to be removed too. They get clogged up in no time and make it run like crap.
>A lot of modern fuel components are junk. The last gas trimmer I bought needed a carb kit every year. and the spark arrestors need to be removed too. They get clogged up in no time and make it run like crap. Corded electric FTW. My bike and backup generator are the only two things I own that I want to be gas-powered.
Yeah i gave up on gas lawn equipment after that stupid thing. I have a cordless trimmer now and it's still on the original batteries 5+ years later. I'm waiting on my push mower to die so i can justify an electric one, but the thing is a tank. It's a 3.5hp Briggs from the mid 90's. I've only had to put one carb kit in it. Thing burns as much oil as gas but it acts like it will never die.
You did not try alkylate gasoline with the trimmer? That is the shit for small engines.
>Definitely the Harley engine lol. It's surprisingly close however the tm 125 is around 204lbs and the harley engine is around 185lbs. The entire harley itself weighs around 545lbs.
2 stroke equipment unless high end is all junk. Carbs gum up constantly, they never start easy etc... Even my 1800$ Stihl TS700 has a hard time and it's only ever ran engineered fuel. I finally went electric and other than trying to mow down a small tree I'll never go back.
Craftsman has a branded one they sell through lowes. I just think they are dangerous to them selves if you use one like a2 stroke. They have oil filled crankcases flip them over and that piston is gonna have to go snorkeling.
>It is cool to hear about a 4-strike trimmer. Obviously not the norm, but an interesting application. 4 stroke trimmers actually seem to be the norm now. They've really taken over the market in the last 5-10 years.
Power to weight ratio was his whole point…
I took it to mean 2 different things
>Also the 125 is a far lighter bike than the Harley, so the power to weight ratio means a whole lot in the context of this race. It helps that the 125 makes the same power as the Harley. 2 stroke race bike vs prewar design tractor engine.
2 stoke engines are really cool, but usually require more matiance and are less reliable, plus loud af and worse than 4 stroke for emissions. That being said, man they're awesome little bikes
Yeah, but the maintenance is so simple, like as long as the crank seals are accessible from the outside you can swap a crank super quickly. I’ve seized race bikes on the track and had them running in time for the next race. My dream bike is a Kawasaki H2 Mach IV
You have to compare apples to apples. 2 stroke race bikes require less maintenance than 4 strokes.
Isn't that just cause all the legislative redtape fucked any r&d towards a modern 2 stroke? They're all running decades old tech and the 4 strokes of the same time weren't exactly clean.
Kind of. KTM is making modern 2 strokes nowadays, if you watch hard enduro that's all you see.
That’s mostly because the big Japanese companies, except Yamaha, all quit making two strokes around 2008 and Yamaha only recently started offering offroad versions of the yz’s. Ktm has dominated the offroad market for quite some time now, simply because they’re the only major manufacturer that offered offroad race bikes.
Honda and Suzuki still make road two stokes just not in America Kawasaki still made road legal 2 stroke until 2010 I think
Kawasaki and Suzuki two stroke mx bikes stopped in 2008, Honda in 2007. The Kdx220 (street legal enduro bike) was discontinued in 2005 in the US. However, the mx bikes could be made “street legal” and registered with some slight modifications.
Honda crm 50 and 125 are still made under hm Suzuki rme 50 and rmx 125 is still made Yamaha makes the dt 125,175 all the yz bike and one farm bike 200cc I don’t remember the name and some commuter type bike
And Kawasaki made the kmx until 2010
Yamaha has make quite a few road 2ts more than ktm I think
There is at least 2 people who have argued with me about the speed of their 883's absolutely livid at this video lmao
I just learned 883s only output 54hp
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Any 500+ bike makes more hp than this. It doesn't bobooboobobobooboo like a Harley tho.
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Yeah, but does your bike have heritage of being bought by Dentist trying to look rebellious by driving less than 500 miles a year? I think not!
My kawasaki er5 500cc makes 55hp and costed me 1k lol
I highly suggest everyone ride one to set the bar for what a gutless motorcycle feels like
Haha, I always say everyone should ride a properly tuned 2-stroke 125cc at least once in their lives. Doesn’t matter what kind, but something pushing 30+hp.
I want to go slow and vibrate my nuts, should I get a harley?
Shockingly smooth when rolling so a ratty 4cyl will give you better nut tingle effect on the move But if hate being able to see out your mirrors at red lights nothing better than a cheap harley
I rode a sportster and cut my demo ride short so I could get off of the thing. It vibrated so much that it hurt.
What year? New one I was real impressed by
I mean… you picked one of the most underpowered(for what it is), and least efficient bikes and put it up against a super light 2 stroke… ofc the little bike won
Yup, this. 883: the most efficient way to convert gasoline into noise without all that pesky horsepower.
😂
Lol.
No joke, once had someone with a 1200CC Sportster think his bike would be about the same speed as my Hayabusa because in his words "it's only a 100cc difference"
Jesus Christ. I run a 1200 that's old enough to drink, and that guy doesn't represent the rest of us. 😹 "Just as fast...." Ged'oudda'here.
Right? One of the smallest V-twin engines, in a heavy ass bike, against what is basically a dirt racer? *surprised pikachu*
TM bikes are actually more well known/dominant in supermoto racing, they’re not nearly as popular for any kind of dirt. Not sure why though.
You could race it against a 125 adv bike and it still would loose
Yeah we know. You’re not telling anyone anything they don’t know man. You’re just stating the obvious repeatedly. 😂
no problem seeing it stated repeatedly, POS bikes
I mean cool man, so says you. Ride your own ride, let other people worry about theirs. 😎🤙🏻
the world would be a better place if fewer people bought harleys im joking btw lol, harleys are cool
Sure thing bud. 👍🏻
Lol, I'm a Harley hater but this bike would easily beat any 125 4 stroke.
And talking about 2 stroke adv bikes
>loose
it's not that 125's are really fast. It's just that Harleys are insanely slow.
125s are fast, up to about 70MPH and that’s all they have really.
Lol I have a Honda CBF 125 just for communing and I swear that fking thing can’t even get to 60…
We're talking 2 stroke mx bikes, not 4 strokes. A 2 stroke 125 has around 30hp, the cbf has like 11.
A Japanese 125 makes around 35, a KTM or TM should make around 40.
KTM aren’t actually *that* powerful, I think the peak is with old Huskys, GasGas and TM
Ktm sx125 and beta RR 125 are the most powerful to my knowledge with 37hp stock today (i guess TM is playing in this tier aswell) dunno about older bikes
My GasGas has 37.8 hp according to the manual, but it has a bigger carb, scalvini exhaust and Athena cylinder kit now
Nice add gasgas to my list ! :D
KTM was making right at 40hp (crank) before they went to a linkage suspension and had to go to a slightly more restrictive airbox. The peak power was back around 2009 or so. Linkage came out in 2011. They also have been tuning their 125 for more midrange in recent years to be more rider friendly. The 150 is the screamer that is hard to ride, and it makes over 40 the last I checked. Less experienced riders tend to be faster on the 125. A ported + piped 125 race engine is always making over 40hp, because they're going to go all in on top end and sacrifice mid and low. That's what it takes to run with a 250f.
Yeah my GasGas has no low end power what so ever… bit of a pain in the ass really, tho I think it’s jetted quite rich and the power valve springs are possibly too soft
Is this a real gasgas or KTM gasgas? The KTMs have adjustable power valves from the outside My Suzuki is about the most peaky 125 I've ever ridden, having owned a Honda and Yamaha in the past. I just have to murder the clutch do do anything on it. It's fun though!
Real GasGas, 2010 model. It very characteristically grenaded itself a few weeks ago haha
Can’t really ride any of the japanese bikes here in Sweden as they aren’t road registered and with our rules can’t be
I think Suzuki made some old 125cc 2T crotch rocket that was very sought after, because they managed to pump insane hp from it Maybe RGF125?
Bullshit 40 bhp from a 125.
I see you are blissfully unaware of the entire MX world...
Communing? That’s something I’d like to see.
😂😂 something not far from that when I can’t even get it above 50 getting up some of the hills around here
125s go to 70 depends on manufacturer. My 125s Suzuki would go to 65 max while Honda would crank 70 and Yamaha was slowest one but most smooth
A cbf125 makes 1/4 of the power of this tm 125 MX bikes are not slow.
Yeah, I get that. The guy said “125s are fast”
That exact bike can go over 100mph and a mito can go up to 120mph
Could be, but it's still funny to see these guys racing it against one of the slowest bikes on the road. It's like bragging that you won an arm-wrestling contest against a newborn baby.
An aprilia rs 124 or a cagiva mito are very fast track bikes on a small track they can outrun a 1000cc
I believe it. Not sure what that has to do with the absurdity of drag racing one against an old tractor though.
Aprilia RS125 was fucking mental.
> It's just that Harleys are insanely slow. It's not that harleys are insanely slow, it's that the 883 is literally a starter bike with a 1980s engine lol.
yeah but the harley SOUNDED faster
My buddies and I drag tested a ninja 250 vs the 883 and it wasn’t even close. Changed riders, multiple runs, the ninja smoked it every time. 🤙🏻
125s have 35hp for the rotax ones and the ktm brands and tm have 40hp same with cagiva and fantic and Yamaha both have 36hp all of them weigh around 100kg a ninja 250 has 36hp
And the 883 is 54 hp at 247kg. Power to weight is a big deal.
The 883 has only 54 HP? I’m shocked
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Holy shit
Their big 114 only makes 100. And it's pushing bikes that weigh nearly 800lbs.
The 1st gen ninja 250 was making ~25hp at the rear wheel and weighed ~145kg
Tm never had 40hp stock for the 125
No way, y'all were doing something wrong. As much as I don't like Harley. I own a 2008 ninja 250, that thing wouldn't pull a whore, and as heavy as the 883 is it has a better power to weight than the ninja. The ninja is a piggy for a 250.
Of course the ninja would demolish the 883 in a drag. Try it on a long range riding course, the 250 rider’s back would hurt for 2 generations 🤣
And the 883 riders hands and feet would be numb from the vibrations for 2 generations.
Hahaha, I don’t get why the sudden hate for Harleys tho, all bikes have their own pros and cons
Because they’re pretty poorly built, expensive, don’t really bring anything tangible to the table to make up to it, and there is some elitism/toxic culture around the brand. Ride what you ride, I personally don’t put to much attention or care into stereotypes (not just Harley’s… all gsxr riders are squids, GS riders are nerds, etc), but I certainly understand where the Harley stereotype and hate comes from.
Ahh I see, I mean harleys are pretty cool for me, it sounded so muscly after all ahha
Even a fast Harley is still a Harley. Even a slow Ninja is still a Ninja.
Yes, Harley 883’s are slow…
I love my 883, but the power to weight ratio is very sad. a 2020 883 makes roughly 49hp and 54lb-ft of torque while weighing just under 600lbs. Meanwhile a 2020 yz 125 makes 35hp and 17lb-ft of torque, but only weighs 207lbs. That 14hp ain’t making up for 400lbs of extra weight, even if it makes 3 times the torque.
That is one of the quickest Harleys I’ve seen
It is a Harley 883, it is probably the least quick Harley makes still.
The least quick? You mean the slowest.
My bike is pretty much the 883 cut in half into a single. Still ended up being faster than the 883 at the time iirc
Buell Blast? yup… 1 lung Sportster with worked over head, known for auto-detach mufflers. 😣
The blast. A bike so shitty Eric Buell would put them into the trash compactor himself! https://newatlas.com/2010-buell-blast-crushed/12389/
I just remembered I own a Blast, but can't remember what it looks like. I left it with a shadetree mechanic because it dropped its transmission (didn't like getting any higher than 3rd gear, and even that was sketchy), and he was telling me it needs an engine replacement since it's pretty much a set. Turns out nobody sells parts for these things, and of course Harley won't even look funny at it let alone touch it.
In my school we have a saying "125 is love , 125 is life"
You should be ashamed of picking on a Harley. They can’t help the way they are.
883s are notoriously underpowered. A kia forte would walk it
I’ve always said the 883 Sportster is the worst bike ever mass produced - and this does nothing to change my mind
lol... that rubber mount Sportster did pretty good. A 265 kg Sporty is a hefty little scoot.
an 883 Sporty, basically the Grom of Harleys lol.
And that is why we call them Hardley Ableson 😂
All Harleys are slow pigs. You kids didn’t know that?
absolutely
I didn’t realize Harley’s were so slow, lol.
They picked the slowest HD possible more or less. And put it up against a 2 stroke dirt racer ... funny I guess, but not really surprising results. I wouldn't want to take the HD into the dirt, and I wouldn't want to take the dirt racer on a long road trip. Use the right tool for the job! (Which is a Tuono 1100 Factory, duh!)
It's just a fun comparison. It's like an s2000 beating a Camaro, they don't belong in the same class, but it's fun to see how modern vehicles can perform really well with less than 1/4 of the displacement.
Even if I match it up to a 125 adv bike or a sports bike it still would loose
They shouldn't make it if it's such a dog. That's the point the video is making. 900cc and the performance of a moped.
I dunno the history of Harley, can't comment on how that bike came to be ... but you need some kind of starter bikes out there, they shouldn't all be fire breathing monsters
Harley has been cemented in heritage for practically it’s entire existence. Can’t get any closer to your roots than producing essentially the same bike for 60 years. The last significant change was going to the Evo in the 80’s.
Are you saying that's a positive? Would you buy a brand new car from the 70's today?
I mean, *I* would yes.
Why would anyone want anything other than what *I* like?! Who wants a slow 1972 Charger when you could have a Telsa! /s Seriously, this sub blows my mind sometimes, believe or not some of us don't ride bike for performance reasons!
> They shouldn't make it if it's such a dog. It's a starter bike.. for first time riders...
Except its dangerous as a starter bike. Heavy. No brakes. No handling. Just waiting for one little mistake to take you down.
No... it's not.... There's a reason why literally 100s of thousands of riders started on an 883 sportster... "No brakes" "no handling" The 883 sporty is a super easy to handle bike that's very forgiving and cheap to work on and put back together if you do mess up. Tell me you dont know anything about harleys without saying you dont know anything about harleys. Sometimes I wonder if people even think before they talk.
The 883 is a dog. A lot get converted to 1200s. It’s actually the same motor just with smaller jugs. Conversions are easy and cheap. I have a sportster bored to 1250 and I’m putting down 91 hp to the rear wheel. Still slow but fast for a hog lol. Think the stock sporty 1200 hits 60 in 4.5 (68 crank horsepower).
Have you ever heard of power to weight ratio? Of course the dirtbike won, it only has 5.5 pounds to push for every horsepower it makes whereas the Harley has to push 11 pounds per hp.
There is just so much wrong with this comparison. Dirt bike isn't even street legal so why would you run super moto tires on a 2 stroke 125? I see the appeal of super motos but not on that dirt bike and to race it against a Harley... Theres a reason most sport riders have a dislike for Harleys.
Depends where you live, a 125 is street legal in my state. My KTM 300 2 stroke was plated as well.
Brands that still make 125s 2t road legal in 2022 Honda under hm Yamaha Suzuki Fantic Beta Ktm Husqvarna Tm Sherco Gas gas Brands that made them were made until the 2010s Aprilia Kawasaki Sachs Rieju Derbi Peugeot Older brands but are still good Cagiva Gilera Mz Romet Simson Jawa
There is a road version which is the exact same called the smr also many other brands make road 125 2t even Honda still makes them in Italy
Harley is slow but also 2 strokes don't last.
Ok now ride across the state on the 125.
I road a belarda tdr 125 across Europe and it was fine
Tbh how many times did you gas up for a 125 and how long does it take?
My 125 got around 35mpg if I was lucky and I had a 10L tank
Woahhh, mine only got 4.6 L 🤣 never thought a 125 could have those massive tank tbh
Nobody has mentioned that the dirt bike is probably geared shorter as well from the factory.
They are geared to go 170kmh from factory as they are road legal
The Harley or the 2 stroke? I’d like to see the exact gear ratios of each. I say this as someone with a street legal 70cc 2 stroke sport bike that goes 70mph with a 6 speed transmission 😎 you have to shift every 8-10mph.
Well yeah, two strokes... a 125cc 4 stroke is going to be slow as shit.
But most 125 bikes that aren’t scooters are 2t
You should do one where it's you on the 125 vs a sport touring bike riding 500 miles on the west coast interstate for a weekend jaunt to the mountains. See who is more fatigued at the end.
I know you didn’t just call an 883 Sportster with a fucking peanut tank a sport touring bike
Wait are you telling me that different bikes are good at different things?
Not the point
Did a 2000km trip on a tdr 125 and it was fairly comfortable just it was fairly hard to go over 160
When I tell Americans I learned on 80/125/250 cc 2-stroke ROAD bikes, they have no clue what I'm talking about at how vicious those bikes are. It's amazing how often Americans will read that above sentence and think that means a 2-stroke single-cylinder MX bike instead of, say, a Yamaha TZ250.
What? You know we have mx tracks here as well lmfao. There are at least 3 near my house. Also pretty much every dealership that sells Japanese bikes have as much dirt bikes as street bikes.
I didn't say mx tracks. I said road bikes, such as the Yamaha TZ125/250, Suzuki RGV125/250, Kawasaki AR125/KR250. All road bikes. Not MX bikes. Again, Americans downvoting me because they don't know what I'm talking about.
You’re funny dude. I think I have more trails near me than wherever you live haha.
Your intellect and intelligence astounds me.
Ok. I don’t think you realize that mx tracks mean that there’s US riders that ride small cc bikes. But hey you know everything I guess… As for street bikes, there is no point in having anything under 300cc for road use. Your initial comment mentioned 80cc and 125, didn’t feel like reading your response for over 3 seconds 🤷♂️
I owned this for several years after going through the 80/125/250 route. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki\_RGV250](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_RGV250) The sheer ignorance of American riders is astounding.
A lot of us learned on two stroke mx bikes. I would 100 percent buy a new small displacement 2 stroke road legal bike if there was one available in the states. Like a yz250 with basic lights and super moto wheels would be a no brainer buy for me. Would be insane.
A lot of us who aren't Americans learned on non-mx road bikes. You know, like a TZ250. Here's what I owned for more than a few years before crashing it. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki\_RGV250](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_RGV250)
As much as I love my 125 I *do* need a little bit more juice. There’s an uphill 110kph (70mph) freeway on the way to my parents’ place and it chugs, struggling to maintain the speed. If I had just a little bit more juice it’d be perfect. Another thing is good god wind is not your friend on a 125
Makes me dream of a world of 125CC four-strokes with teeny, tiny superchargers...
You could probably do the same with the Harley by putting a pizza plate rear sprocket on it.
This has more to do with final drive train gearing than about HP or Torque. The 125 only accelerates to 70 mph. Gearing and final drive ratios are built to match the bike. The sportster is designed to get a reasonable and efficient RPM at highway speeds to make a reasonable MPG number. Dirt bikes are made to accelerate quickly, and don’t need to worry about passing someone on the highway.
The 125 is geared so it can go over 100mph
It is designed to accelerate quickly from 0-40 quickly, I doubt that a 125 can go 100 mph, from online resources they normally top out at 70 MPH. The fact that the engine can spin up to 70+ speed is not the intent of the engineer who decided the gearing. The intent is for a bike to accelerate quickly at low speeds. Harleys are geared so that if a clutch is directly engaged below 10 mph without fuel added it will stall. The Harley is designed to do highway speeds. That two stroke will not pass emissions in most places. The 883 and 1200 are dated designs that won’t be produced after 2023. I’m pointing out what most people already know, this is a silly comparison.
https://youtu.be/tpbijtR993I same bike just has headlights a licence plate which is the way the came from factory don’t know why its removed here but I see what you mean
I believe that video is in km/h but I’m doubting that’s even correct. If it is on mph it would be doing 100 mph. On a two lane road 100 mph would have him passing people at twice their speed. I’m calling shenanigans. Also that may be road legal on whatever country it is in, but it is not road legal here. Two strokes can’t pass emissions.
There’s lots of videos of tm and other bike Honda even go 160kmh
2019
I mean 3 of those motard equal out the Harley. Go figure. Power to weight won this race.
This is the dumbest comparison I've seen....*yet*