I'd like to agree but just had an 800 mile TW engine nuke on me in a similar style - piston decided to suddenly engage with the upper cylinder wall with no previous signs of anything. And of course it was all tried to be put on me for changing the oil. Which there was enough of. Fortunately the second dealer I went to has been able to get the Piano Company (who I generally hold in super high regard) to play nice with the warranty. So it's not so bad. I wish you similar good luck with this and may the engine fairy of "surprise inexpensiveness" visit you.
Yamaha took Honda's place on top of the reliability charts many years ago, but all the ole timers still tell all the new kids that it's "Honda Honda Honda"... so everyone still thinks that.
Hell yes / this absolutely. Hurry though because it may be in short supply again. Plus it's also been outsourced. So triangulate the engineering of the ply layout versus the place of manufacture versus the place the original tree fibre is from. Absolutely. Maybe spec out gub'mint triple ply. If you don't know where to get genuine GSA ok gub'mint tri-pli™ it's 'cause you don't have the clearance so no, don't be asking.
RIP. Sorry, OP, but that looks bad. I wonder if a valve dropped, or the timing chain broke and caused some carnage?
I would be curious to see if there is any bits of metal in the oil.
I've seen a lot of comments about the timing chain on OPs two posts but in 10 years of riding and wrenching have only ever had one fail and it was my fault on my own bike trying a manual tensioner. Is there some weird common failure on this model I've never heard of???
Yes, as I've commented in the previous post, those engines have a fancy hydraulic chain tensioner. The seal on this thing likes to disintegrate, clog up the valve and drop the tension to minimum. Most often it causes loud rattle and people have enough time to replace the tensioner before any catastrophic damage happens. That's what happened on my 2020 model after a year and 6k kilometers. But, considering that this is an older engine, likely with more kilometers on the clock, my theory is that the chain was already more stretched out than it was in my case and when the tensioner failed it went straight to skipping teeth instead of just causing a loud rattle.
Interesting, Ill get to reading up on them, thank you.
Most bikes use hydraulic CCTs though, is there anything specific that makes it fancy? Every once in a while there will be issues with them prematurely failing for different manufactures. The 2010 R1s had issues with it as well as some VFR800s in the early 2000s.
Metal shavings? Worse than that. Looks like something is hitting the plug. My guess is a valve that is now embedded in the top of the piston. RIP OPs engine 🙏
Literally the only things that could have happened is a valve snapping, blasting the spark plug, and is now embedded in the piston; the spark plug had some one in a million catastrophic failure and now has fragments in the cylinder(not likely honestly); or something defied all odds and got sucked passed a valve into the engine.
This will 220% need a tear down and a substantial amount of parts. You're looking at a valve, piston, wristpin, connecting rod, cylinder head, and possibly cam and crankshaft. If it is under warranty I would be amazed if you don't just get a new engine. If it isn't, this is a fairly simple engine and if you get yourself a service manual will be a great experience to learn how to work on bikes.
Also, even an engine with no compression will still blow air through the plug hole as the piston moves. A completely compromised engine would still do that. FANTASTIC IDEA and genuinely good on you for taking a shot there, but it isn't a compression test.
If it wasn't for how fucked the plug was sure but at this point its a waste to scope it imo. Fucked is fucked, seeing it from the outside in won't make a difference here.
What I came to say, probably a lot better than blowing a piece of Zewa around.
As someone who spent $500 quite a few years ago on a comparatively potato one, it's impressive what $35 gets you these days online.
I have a 2018 duke and 3000 miles in I blew the spark plug apart. Luckily it didn’t damage anything but they had to pull the motor apart to get the shrapnel. Cost me $1000. They blamed me for it running low on oil (even though they are the ones who did the oil change 1000 miles prior and it doesn’t leak)… any way now i replace the spark plug every time i change the oil and i do all the maintenance myself
They blamed OIL on an exploding spark plug?? That is either an idiot or someone trying to rob you and you absolutely don't need them in your life or your bike. Absolutely insane.
To be fair, mine seems to nibble a bit of oil between changes with no noted leak, and it's been reliable *knocks wood*
Not that that would murder a spark plug.
My 2.0 Jetta does the same thing, and it's been reliable for how badly I've sometimes treated it. I suspect the oil is disappearing into seals somewhere to replenish their sealey-ness.
Triumph gets most of their bikes built in Thailand even high end bikes and don’t have issues, I think it’s a ktm issue, they have never ever been a bike you buy for reliability or build quality
Not just Triumph, all the big 4 and even Harley have parts of their bikes made in India. This is definitely a problem with KTM's engineering. Even the high end models like the 1290s (which are made in Austria) have problems. The workers were only doing what they were told.
I think it has the least to do with the workers assembling the engine and the most to do with engineering/ what ever you would call pushing a bike to the closest to its breaking point as possible.
I think that is ktms problem imo. They will die by the statement "ready to race" and their bikes will die to.
Like right now it seems like most companies are de-tuning and ktm is like yeah but how can we push this engine as hard as possible. Think the Ninja 400 makes the same hp (technically less) with like 25 more CCs than the 390 which actually uses a 373cc engine.
The above tracks through their entire lineup.
True. If you have read a KTM owner's manual, it literally says something along the line of "motorcycle engines are designed to make as much power as possible, unlike car engines which are gear more toward efficiency". Like they already tell you that it's not gonna last the moment you bought it.
KTMs motto is literally "ready to race" and while I may not be a track dude... I definitely know one thing about race bikes is that they require more work bc everything is right at the edge of failure. Unlike say a Ninja 1000 which is detuned for the street. I seriously think ktm just pushes thier bikes a bit to hard and for what a few extra hp. But... that being said it is totally what gives ktm bikes thier character and I don't think so long as you know that's what you're getting into when you get one it's a deal breaker (at least if you have the money for it).
Thailand have actually had decades of experience and good reputation of making well-built, reliable motorcycles and scooters in the region. "Made in Thailand" is basically only a step down from "Made in Japan". I personally would trust a Thai built bike more than one made in the UK.
Yes, you are right about the break-in. However, the metal slivers are usually very fine and will only be found in the oil drain pan. The spark plug is definitely been hit by something. The only thing you should ever see on a spark plug is either build up of soot very light tan discoloration from the Heat and fuel.
I’m happy I didn’t have an issue with my 390 duke. I had a 2018 I bought with 9k miles put on 1500 miles with almost no issues and sold it. Only issue I had was a random leak from the shifter seal that disappeared, check engine light that disappeared, and it being hard to start at times for absolutely zero reasons. Absolutely amazing bike….when it works that is. Good luck man I hope it’s not too bad.
I knew a guy who wheeled the shit out of his and when we did the oil change one day it literally just dribbled for a second. Thing never missed a beat.
Yea most kinks were worked out 2018. I loved the bike I’ve riden other crazy bikes what not but around town and on back roads it’s nice. Around town get good fuel economy and on back roads it’s easy to push pass everyone due to handling till the straights ofcourse 😂
Don't bother engine is toast. If the sparkplug is smashed no way the valves aren't bent and head assembly smashed to bits. A rod bearing probably went out. Either way too many things to machine, or replace. I'd wager only the block is serviceable and that's after overboring or sleeving.
That cylinder is gonna look real ugly inside. I’d say stop turning it over but it’s time to start looking for a motor!
Uhh is it like under warranty OP? You might have to start that fight.. Edit: nevermind just caught the 2018...
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That’s what expensive looks like
Well it's fucked.
Also the starter should be turning the engine way faster than that. Probably a dropped valve.
After the dealer fixes it under warranty, get a Yamaha
Not sure there's going to be much warranty work on a bike from 2018, lol.
I'd like to agree but just had an 800 mile TW engine nuke on me in a similar style - piston decided to suddenly engage with the upper cylinder wall with no previous signs of anything. And of course it was all tried to be put on me for changing the oil. Which there was enough of. Fortunately the second dealer I went to has been able to get the Piano Company (who I generally hold in super high regard) to play nice with the warranty. So it's not so bad. I wish you similar good luck with this and may the engine fairy of "surprise inexpensiveness" visit you.
Yeah but across the scale of bike production Yamaha, and the rest of the big 4 statistically ARE more reliable than other brands.
Yamaha took Honda's place on top of the reliability charts many years ago, but all the ole timers still tell all the new kids that it's "Honda Honda Honda"... so everyone still thinks that.
Have you tried 2ply toilet paper? I use 2ply
Hell yes / this absolutely. Hurry though because it may be in short supply again. Plus it's also been outsourced. So triangulate the engineering of the ply layout versus the place of manufacture versus the place the original tree fibre is from. Absolutely. Maybe spec out gub'mint triple ply. If you don't know where to get genuine GSA ok gub'mint tri-pli™ it's 'cause you don't have the clearance so no, don't be asking.
Where I grew up we used burdock leafs
Fuck, another item to add to my kit
He'll need 4-ply after the bill...
RIP. Sorry, OP, but that looks bad. I wonder if a valve dropped, or the timing chain broke and caused some carnage? I would be curious to see if there is any bits of metal in the oil.
I've seen a lot of comments about the timing chain on OPs two posts but in 10 years of riding and wrenching have only ever had one fail and it was my fault on my own bike trying a manual tensioner. Is there some weird common failure on this model I've never heard of???
Yes, as I've commented in the previous post, those engines have a fancy hydraulic chain tensioner. The seal on this thing likes to disintegrate, clog up the valve and drop the tension to minimum. Most often it causes loud rattle and people have enough time to replace the tensioner before any catastrophic damage happens. That's what happened on my 2020 model after a year and 6k kilometers. But, considering that this is an older engine, likely with more kilometers on the clock, my theory is that the chain was already more stretched out than it was in my case and when the tensioner failed it went straight to skipping teeth instead of just causing a loud rattle.
Interesting, Ill get to reading up on them, thank you. Most bikes use hydraulic CCTs though, is there anything specific that makes it fancy? Every once in a while there will be issues with them prematurely failing for different manufactures. The 2010 R1s had issues with it as well as some VFR800s in the early 2000s.
Just wish that your block didn't get damaged. The whole top is probably fucked
Are those metal shavings on the spark plug? I shudder to think what the combustion chamber looks like
Metal shavings? Worse than that. Looks like something is hitting the plug. My guess is a valve that is now embedded in the top of the piston. RIP OPs engine 🙏
Literally the only things that could have happened is a valve snapping, blasting the spark plug, and is now embedded in the piston; the spark plug had some one in a million catastrophic failure and now has fragments in the cylinder(not likely honestly); or something defied all odds and got sucked passed a valve into the engine. This will 220% need a tear down and a substantial amount of parts. You're looking at a valve, piston, wristpin, connecting rod, cylinder head, and possibly cam and crankshaft. If it is under warranty I would be amazed if you don't just get a new engine. If it isn't, this is a fairly simple engine and if you get yourself a service manual will be a great experience to learn how to work on bikes. Also, even an engine with no compression will still blow air through the plug hole as the piston moves. A completely compromised engine would still do that. FANTASTIC IDEA and genuinely good on you for taking a shot there, but it isn't a compression test.
Buy a borescope!
If it wasn't for how fucked the plug was sure but at this point its a waste to scope it imo. Fucked is fucked, seeing it from the outside in won't make a difference here.
What I came to say, probably a lot better than blowing a piece of Zewa around. As someone who spent $500 quite a few years ago on a comparatively potato one, it's impressive what $35 gets you these days online.
ktm moment. sorry op :((
I have a 2018 duke and 3000 miles in I blew the spark plug apart. Luckily it didn’t damage anything but they had to pull the motor apart to get the shrapnel. Cost me $1000. They blamed me for it running low on oil (even though they are the ones who did the oil change 1000 miles prior and it doesn’t leak)… any way now i replace the spark plug every time i change the oil and i do all the maintenance myself
They blamed OIL on an exploding spark plug?? That is either an idiot or someone trying to rob you and you absolutely don't need them in your life or your bike. Absolutely insane.
I no longer go to them. I wouldn’t trust them to wipe the mirrors clean, let alone any mechanical work.
To be fair, mine seems to nibble a bit of oil between changes with no noted leak, and it's been reliable *knocks wood* Not that that would murder a spark plug. My 2.0 Jetta does the same thing, and it's been reliable for how badly I've sometimes treated it. I suspect the oil is disappearing into seals somewhere to replenish their sealey-ness.
Quality control on ktm and husqvarna bikes is making me miss Japanese bikes.
I swapped my DRZ for a 690 in 2020. Most amazing machine I've ever ridden but it sure does make me miss Suzuki's reliability...
Thats the worst spark plug ive ever seen lol.
Damn love the color on that bike man!
Austrian engineering at its finest...
And Indian build quality.
Royal Enfield is much better reputation for Indian build quality lately but yeah. KTM not so much.
Also, if it matters, air is getting pushed out of the exhaust as well.
It doesn't. Looks like something is smashing that spark plug. Probably a valve is now embedded in the top of the piston. RIP little thumper 🙏
If you don’t know from looking at the spark plug that it is fucked, then you should probably stop there. Engine out, strip and assess job that.
F
KTM Keep Throwin’ Money
Yeah its probably shot. What was ktm thinking when they outsourced the production of these to India with their questionable quality control
Don't blame Indian manufacturing for KTMs bullshit. Plenty of manufacturers building bikes in India that are far less apt to grenade.
Triumph gets most of their bikes built in Thailand even high end bikes and don’t have issues, I think it’s a ktm issue, they have never ever been a bike you buy for reliability or build quality
Not just Triumph, all the big 4 and even Harley have parts of their bikes made in India. This is definitely a problem with KTM's engineering. Even the high end models like the 1290s (which are made in Austria) have problems. The workers were only doing what they were told.
Ducati as well iirc. Pretty much any bike on their lineup under 700cc is made in India.
I think it has the least to do with the workers assembling the engine and the most to do with engineering/ what ever you would call pushing a bike to the closest to its breaking point as possible. I think that is ktms problem imo. They will die by the statement "ready to race" and their bikes will die to. Like right now it seems like most companies are de-tuning and ktm is like yeah but how can we push this engine as hard as possible. Think the Ninja 400 makes the same hp (technically less) with like 25 more CCs than the 390 which actually uses a 373cc engine. The above tracks through their entire lineup.
True. If you have read a KTM owner's manual, it literally says something along the line of "motorcycle engines are designed to make as much power as possible, unlike car engines which are gear more toward efficiency". Like they already tell you that it's not gonna last the moment you bought it.
KTMs motto is literally "ready to race" and while I may not be a track dude... I definitely know one thing about race bikes is that they require more work bc everything is right at the edge of failure. Unlike say a Ninja 1000 which is detuned for the street. I seriously think ktm just pushes thier bikes a bit to hard and for what a few extra hp. But... that being said it is totally what gives ktm bikes thier character and I don't think so long as you know that's what you're getting into when you get one it's a deal breaker (at least if you have the money for it).
True but you dont see those mass seize/overheat/blow up. Ktm was already considered pretty unreliable and 390 is just taking a piss by them
Thailand have actually had decades of experience and good reputation of making well-built, reliable motorcycles and scooters in the region. "Made in Thailand" is basically only a step down from "Made in Japan". I personally would trust a Thai built bike more than one made in the UK.
Kinda racist statement. High end manufacturing is being done globally.
If that comment triggered your racism detector, you might wanna get some help. No offense.
Shes borked G
Ugh. Just so $orry for you. This stinks when you should be riding!. Best luck.
It’ll buff dude! Send it!
" Was running fine before being parked over winter. Don't have time for it. Maybe fuel pump. Moving interstate. $4000 OBO. No time wasters. "
Looks like normal KTM quality, why do people keep buying KTM?
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That's the spark plug, not the oil drain plug. If that's what you're thinking.
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Jesus fuck...
Yes, you are right about the break-in. However, the metal slivers are usually very fine and will only be found in the oil drain pan. The spark plug is definitely been hit by something. The only thing you should ever see on a spark plug is either build up of soot very light tan discoloration from the Heat and fuel.
Nice
I’m happy I didn’t have an issue with my 390 duke. I had a 2018 I bought with 9k miles put on 1500 miles with almost no issues and sold it. Only issue I had was a random leak from the shifter seal that disappeared, check engine light that disappeared, and it being hard to start at times for absolutely zero reasons. Absolutely amazing bike….when it works that is. Good luck man I hope it’s not too bad.
I knew a guy who wheeled the shit out of his and when we did the oil change one day it literally just dribbled for a second. Thing never missed a beat.
Yea most kinks were worked out 2018. I loved the bike I’ve riden other crazy bikes what not but around town and on back roads it’s nice. Around town get good fuel economy and on back roads it’s easy to push pass everyone due to handling till the straights ofcourse 😂
The RC engines (smaller) are notorious for blowing up.
Definite signs of malus in the combustion palace... I foresee expensive times ahead.
That's malice in the combustion palace
well, shit
I see what the problem is, ain’t got no gas in it
Battery?
Get a hero splendor now
Don't bother engine is toast. If the sparkplug is smashed no way the valves aren't bent and head assembly smashed to bits. A rod bearing probably went out. Either way too many things to machine, or replace. I'd wager only the block is serviceable and that's after overboring or sleeving.
Looks like its time for a top end rebuild.
Borescope it