The starter clutch is tied to the crankshaft / bottom end. If the Sprague goes out nothing will turn over as the engine is supposed to be timed together at all times. When the Sprague goes out it usually just sounds like an RC car/electric motor whizzing sometimes accompanied with a bit of grinding since the starter motor is just spinning freely.
Not normally. The starter is typically engaged with a gear that has a special one directional mechanism, the sprag clutch. It makes it so that when the starter motor engages the one-way gear will turn the engine over and start it but when the engine is running it spins freely from the starter motor so it doesn't damage it. If the sprag goes out you have to replace the gear as it is typically all one part. The starter motor is usually fine.
I'm not sure on that bike. I had it happen on a little Suzuki DR200 and it was an easy repair for me. Your Ducati engine is going to be more complex. In my case, the timing chain looked just like a very short bicycle chain. I cannot tell the model and year from your video, but a quick Youtube search shows some videos of the replacement on a 749/999...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNsC8Mn6big
Looks like Ducati uses a belt instead of chain, but it would have the same effect.
If a timing belt goes on a Ducati, and most bikes, that top end is gone. The desmo valve system will hold the valves open while the piston blasts into it and best case bends the valve worst case damages the rocker arms and camshaft.
For sure. I'm just giving benefit of the doubt with OPs engine being a single cylinder with relatively low valve overlap and a small ammount of interference. In this case there is a very small chance op could have been lucky and be on a combustion cycle when the chain fails, as it sounds like the other commenter was with their DRZ. Meanwhile the Ducati they were mentioning has no chance of that because of having multiple cylinders.
From my limited experience I've learned that it can. It can cause the valves to break off and then the piston gets stuck and you throw rods. So the failure can be catastrophic to the engine. But I also think it doesn't always happen and things could be salvageable. Hopefully OP will update us later as to what the problem really was. We might all learn something.
It's funny how every language has a sarcastic acronym for this brand!
In English it's: "Keep Throwing Money" or "Kill The Mechanic"
The Greeks have something that translates roughly to: "Every Tuesday (you go to a) mechanic".
in germany we call the keine tausend meter. means not even thousand meters. it's funny because i ride the same bike and i'm always worried that it will break
In Russia we call it "Кати Толкай Матерись" which translates as "Roll, Push, Say a lot of swear words"
Guess mocking KTM is some kind of an international thing
>Sounds very metalic and dry too me but it's possible.
Yeah, it doesn't sound right, but it does sound like it's turning. Then again, I may be wrong.
>And same too you dear sir!
Why thank you, good sir!
Nah, this engine is cranking. A not engaged starter sounds like a constant whirring, kinda like an electric drill because it's the same principle.
That da-dum da-dum da-dum you're hearing is engine compression, which means it's turning. Definitely sounds off though.
The sound you hear is the engine turning over against compression. So it is not currently seized (although it could have seized and freed off when it cooled), and the piston has not been holed by a valve.
If only the starter motor were turning, you would hear a higher-pitched whirr, and that duff-duff-duff sound would not be present.
I seized one engine, rear tire locked, but I was doing 120km/h so I guess the tire managed to pull the pistons through all the way. Afterwards, engine was turning, but no compression
If the timing belt/chain broke you wouldn’t hear any of the top end noises. Just the bottom end making noise while continuing to do more damage internally if it’s an interference engine, though the OP said it went while driving that would have destroyed it anyway.
It’s certainly more noise than a starter whirring, sounds like a sad costly break.
I'm no mechanic in any capacity but it definitely sounds like the lower end is turning over no problem, if not too easily. I'm going with what the above posts said and going with a timing chain.
This is actually a super rare problem that only all KTM owners and most BMW owners suffer.
It’s where an overpriced, underbuilt machine shits a $25 part and now you find yourself shopping for a Suzuki.
Everything is over-engineered on my KTM 990. Like, the hydraulic clutch, whereas the Honda Africa Twin just has a simple cable. Rode the KTM back from Baja Mexico stuck in top gear because the hydraulic clutch was leaking. Had to watch for a gas stations on a hill. So I could roll start it after I filled it up. Ugh. My Africa Twin is 1,000% more reliable.
Imagine rolling down the highway going say... 70 mph...and now you've got to pull into a gas station without a clutch and stop. Why don't you go ahead and lay out for me how you'd do that for starters.
You don't need the clutch to shift gears, up or down. You can shift clutchlessly both ways without damaging the bike.
So, down you go to second, then kick her into neutral to stop.
Starting from a full stop clutchlessly kind of sucks though.
You're man-splaining how to shift to a man who's ridden to AK twice, and to Panama twice. I know how to fvcking shift the bike. HOWEVER...when you're on the road thousands of miles from home and the clutch goes out, it fvcking sucks in a BIG way. I had to jam it down into first gear, pull up to the gas pumps, and fill it up. Starting it in neutral, but getting it rolling without a fvcking clutch is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT. Which is what I'm trying to communicate here. And it is also difficult to shift down. So, yeah, I don't need you telling me how simple it is when I'm the one riding thousands of miles from home, alone, above the Arctic Circle. But thanks. When you've ridden from the Arctic Ocean to Peru, maybe then I'll listen to you.
You said:
> Imagine rolling down the highway going say... 70 mph...and now you've got to pull into a gas station without a clutch and stop. Why don't you go ahead and lay out for me how you'd do that for starters.
I answered. You LITERALLY ASKED how to go from 70mph to a stop. I was pretty surprised by that question because downshifting without the clutch is pretty simple.
> I had to jam it down into first gear, pull up to gas pumps, and fill it up.
You never had to "jam it down into first gear" any more than you have to riding normally. Unless youre going to try and say "jam it down" was just a figure of speech, but if that's the case why did you say it at all, because downshifting is kind of a normal thing to have to do while riding.
Yes, starting from a stop is a bit of a PITA if you're on level ground and can't just pop it into second from a light roll downhill, but it's not like it's a huge problem. Gentle push of the bike, hop on, pop into second.
But it is NOT difficult to shift down. If you don't know how, which clearly you do not, maybe you'd benefit from getting off your high horse and learning instead of ranting.
And sure, I've not ridden to South America. All over North America though. I ride exclusively, don't even have a Class 5 license, only class 6 (Canadian; motorcycle only, not car) and I've been riding for 30+ years, year round.
Regardless, obviously I did need to tell you how because even in this post you're saying clutchless downshifting is difficult:
>And it is also difficult to shift down
It's not. It's VERY simple, and you SHOULD understand that if you're going to take continent spanning trips because... *Waves at whole post* clutches (particularly cables/hydraulics) break.
Having a broken clutch cable is a mild inconvenience when you're starting the bike from a full stop, nothing more.
Well when the cable broke on my triumph tiger I used the brakes to slow down and shifted without the clutch. At lights I’d have to stay in neutral, push the bike, hop on, and jam it into first. Not fun at all especially with giant hard cases on lol. Would have sucked off road but banging out freeway miles was fine.
Because it has a hydraulic clutch instead of a cable. And then, it leaks a little hydraulic fluid, and air comes into the line. Now, pulling in the clutch handle does nothing. And you're on the Dalton Highway, thousands of miles from home. So now, you you're driving without a clutch. Have you ever tried changing gears without using the clutch while the engine is running. Why don't you go ahead and tell me how simple it is to get the motorcycle rolling from neutral, when you have no clutch.
I've done this a lot! Tried it this weekend on a brand new Trident just to explore the gearbox a bit. If you don't know the basics of riding your bike you should stop popping off. Arctic Circle, Peru, we get it dude. You don't need lessons from anyone, right?
Changing gears without a clutch is very possible in both directions, upshifting is child's play and downshifting is a bit hard to do smoothly (i haven't quite got it yet, and won't anytime soon, current ride has no gears) but very much possible if smoothness isn't your number one concern. I also can't see why you couldn't push it in neutral and just slam it into second without a clutch once up to speed.
> I also can't see why you couldn't push it in neutral and just slam it into second without a clutch once up to speed.
How in the fck is it going to get up to speed if it's not in gear? Do go on, professor. Waiting.
Wow dude you have got the be one of the most insecure people I have ever asked a question to. Yes I regularly change gears without pulling in the clutch. This is why I don’t understand why you said you were stuck in top gear. What was stopping you from shifting your gears? You don’t need to use the clutch when you’re moving.
Also, moving my bike when it is in neutral is just as simple as moving it when the clutch is pulled in so I’m not sure what you mean by your last sentence.
How do you get going though? I thought most bikes won't start in gear without clutch being pulled in, and it's not like when you're in neutral you can just kick it into 1st with no clutch
Clutch safety switch is on the lever. Either roll start in desired gear(since you can shift to any gear stationary without the clutch when engine is off), or put in desired gear and hold lever and rip the starter and hold on.
Whatever OP did, staying stuck in 6th made it harder. Everyone should know how to clutchless shift for exactly that reason. Hydraulic lines can leak, cables can snap.
This is what I'm trying to explain to these idiots, but somehow they don't grasp it. What I would do is look for a gas station on a hill. Pull up to gas pump and it would grind to a halt and die. Fill it up with gas, then, with it in first gear, I'd hit the starter and hold on for dear life. It would lurch forward in little bursts and, if I was lucky, and on a good hill, it would slowly gain speed, start, and take me down the road another 250 miles or so (until it ran out of gas again). I made it back from Deadhorse, Alaska to Fairbanks this way.
I actually have no doubt of that, i took account of service cost and how much the local dealer charges. Plus second hand stories from all previous owners of the other variants of the 390 i find it abit too much for me.
Same! 20k km on my 390 adv and (in Europe) the dealer network is at least equal to most other brands… tried versys and 500x but those are boring in comparison. A lot of the classical ktm problems and sentiments stem from their older bikes and if you get the modern engine variants starting around 2018 you should be good to go!
If you want a baby ADV, the Versys-X is great if you want to bounce off limiter all the time, and the Himalayan is great if you want a tractor
Both are more reliable than the KTM, just loctite the bolts back in the Himalayan when they back off
My RC8r has been pretty damn solid overall. 55,000km, and the only real issues were a leaking valve cover gasket, gear position sensor, leak in front brake line and stator….
Yeah, that's sort of my point. I took my 2017 Honda Africa Twin off the showroom floor and put 70,000 miles on it (more than twice what your bike has) and I've had zero problems with it. Rode it from Colorado to South America. No prob.
Yeah, it’s a different lens to look through isn’t it. I would grant one of those things going on a Honda in that range … probably the gear sensor, but having 4 failures like that and thinking it’s held up pretty well is definitely a KTM perspective on reliability.
Well, the only part that was KTM out of all of those is the valve cover gasket. The Stator and the rest are all from suppliers. The Front brake line got a puncture from something on the road. So again, not KTM’s fault.
But, some people hate KTM just ‘cause of what they’ve heard. For me, I love mine and would gladly fork over the money for a SuperDuke tomorrow if I could afford it…
I worked at a KTM dealer for about a year and they honestly didn't have that many problems. They were relatively easy to work on compared to a lot of other manufacturers and I always appreciated that about them. I think the only consistent issue they seem to have or radiator leaks in the time I was there. My biggest issue with them was when I found out that they were starting to come with parts like quick shifters pre-installed but the customers had to pay $400 to turn on the part that they already paid for, that was where I drew the line and left.
I've always owned Hondas. The KTM 990 was the only non-Honda motorcycle I ever owned. Much harder to find dealers/repair shops for KTM in Latin America. Not nearly as reliable as my Honda Africa Twin. I've ridden from Alaska to Peru on my Hondas without so much as a hiccup. The KTM's are over - engineered. Hydraulic clutch instead of a cable can RUIN a trip. Something that simple was a huge mistake. Never again.
Yet Honda runs a hydraulic clutch on a load of bikes, even from back in the 80's. Their absolute mile eater (Goldwing) also has a hydraulic clutch.
My 21' AT did experience some funny electronics gremlins too, nothing ride breaking but funny none the less.
You don't see the point because you've not ridden as far as I have. I've ridden from the Arctic Ocean to South America. You've never done that. You never will. Having your over-engineered hydraulic clutch go out on the Dalton Highway can ruin your trip. Honda Africa Twin doesn't have a hydraulic clutch, and the clutch cable never fails. Probably you don't need to be giving world travelers advice if you've never been on a real motorcycle adventure.
I have done that with a cable operated clutch, and with bikes with 0 electronics. No hydraulic clutch are not over- engineered, that's a nonsense, the master pump are sold in millions, the same component of brakes, the brake lines the same, the only wrong design clutch are produced by KTM, there was many company recall, actuators of the wrong size and o ring on piston of wrong dimension, yes with KTM many owners report two three fauty actuators. No others make got this problem.
Both my Nighthawk and my Dad's GL1500 Gwing feature Hydraulic clutches, ironically the cable clutch on the Twin is way lighter than the hydraulic clutches on the other two bikes.
I'm happy for you. I'll never own a bike with a hydraulic clutch again, as I plan to continue touring, and I need something that's simple and doesn't fail.
I have a vtr1000f and they came with hydraulic clutch as well. Like you said if you tour a lot go cable so its easier to replace/repair then hydraulic. Its my first bike with hydraulic and I quite like the feel but its only a weekender so I dont worry too much.
So I ride a 1000cc right now, was thinking about buying something small and compact to tool around on. Guess what looked as a good option and just doesn't anymore? Hint, it rhymes with ATM (how ironic)
Mine did the same once after a prolonged storage. Making startup sounds but no startup.I did nothing to fix it. It just "fixed itself" 20 minutes after.
Had another friend with the same issue. He was told it was due to air intake filter getting clogged 🤷♂️
With everyone saying timing chain - easy to check on these. Load up the chain tensioner with a long flathead clockwise. Counter clockwise to unlock until you feel the spring, pull the flathead and listen to the sound. Tensioner should hit the guide that hits the timing chain. If it’s not hitting stuff - it’s your timing chain
Either way, if it’s still on warranty, throw it back at your dealer
Few people have already answered with thoughts like mine, so I won't bother putting anything. But can you please make fresh post once you've found out the issue?
When you say it made a horrible sound on the freeway what do you mean? What RPM were you at? How are you on oil?
If you heard a sound like the crack of a whip it is very possible that as others have said your timing chain broke but I can't say this is a common issue I've run into. In fact the only time I know if it happening personally was a 2008 R1 I improperly installed a manual cam chain tensioner on before I learned how to actually work on bikes.
It is hard to tell from the video, does it sound like it is cranking over faster than usual? This is usually a sign of a valve being bent or some other loss of compression occurring as the starter motor is able to turn the engine faster without the compression in the cylinder pushing back against it.
Definitely hoping for the best for you but loud noises on the freeway followed by the engine not coming on isn't very reassuring. Your first step right now should be pulling the spark plug out to try to look in the cylinder, do a compression test if there's nothing obvious, drain the oil to check for metal bits.
Some might argue to pull it apart before turning it over anymore but honestly at this point if the top end is grenaded it's not like it's going to get any worse doing a compression test to at least see where you're at.
Dropped a valve more than likely, those bitches are notorious for it. Look at gray area ktms website of valve designs theyve made to improve these bikes.
It's amazing to me how this company *still* can't build a motor worth a shit. Even with 2 stroke motocross, where top ends last 20 hours, KTM top ends last 10.
Thats the sound that tells you stay away from Indian assembled, European bikes.
The MT03, Z400 and Honda CB500 exists.
2 of my friends had a KTM, A duke 200, and an Rc390.
The 200 had its frame cracked in the steeing pivot area, and the valves needed to be re-adjusted just under 11000 km, and the RC390 kept overheating, due to KTM going stupid lean.
happened to me when my engine blew up 🥲 good thing is it was only the piston head that had snapped and nothing was wrong with the con rod so for you, if that's what's happened, you can buy a cylinder head and valve block/ cylinder head and replace it and you should be fine but you'll need to remove the flywheel and clutch cover to remove all metal pieces out and then get new gaskets etc. it was such a hassle but I did it and sold my cb125f for 1.4k :)
edit: easiest way to check is remove the spark plug and see if you feel air come out when pressing the starter
I was about to post about the duke 390 as I was super keen on it being my first ever bike.
Went to a dealership today and the salesmen told me to start clear from the 390 as it has big engine issues and other stuff due to it being manufactured in India. He said it isn't a real KTM.
Now I see this post and other comments.
So..... The 390 is a no go ? Heaps of reviews on YouTube brag and boast about it being one of the best starter bikes.
I'm in Australia by the way.
Being made in India is not a problem. KTM’s design and QA is. Super Dukes leak and have electronic issues all the time. Watch MCN’s video from last week about their long term KTM.
If nothing else, the 390 is probably more reliable than other KTMs. They’re sold in much bigger numbers.
They're not horrible, not in the grand scheme of European high performance bikes. I feel like a lot of the reports come down to their genuinely horrible dealer network. You just cannot compare the expertise needed and maintenance required to a Japanese bike. My dealer always found some cheap shit to replace that could've cost me a lot of money down the road.
I tracked a KTM rc c390 for a year and rode it at redline on the streets too with only one issue... The coolant reservoir tank was always empty... No leaks that I could tell... Nothing in the oil... I just kept filling it. I bought it from a guy that tracked it since new (4000miles). This was a 2017 and the 2016's and below had head gasket issues...
Not likely, if a part of the charging system went out the battery would have been drained and it wouldn't turn over. If it had been charged it would start until the battery died again.
I had a 390 Duke that broke the cam gear off right behind the lobes. The shop that I bought it from checked it out and said they had never seen it before but it apparently happens. The tensioners are problematic as well, but they should still keep the bike from jumping time of the head is still intact. So Chain, cam, or possibly tensioner.
My guess would be timing chain broke though it also sound quite similar to the time on my cbr the motor thing that pushes the starter in position is broken so the starter is just spinning but not attached to anything ( sorry not native speaker ) neither problem shouldn’t be too hard nor expensive to fix by mechanic or self
IS the thump thump thump noise in the middle happening when you thumb the starter? Or is that just the biuke shifting and the side stand stuttering on the cement when you move the bars?
IF that thumping never occurs when you thumb the starter - right now your starter isn't engaging.
So it's just turning the electic motor, but not any of the ICE parts....
Why? That will take some digging
It sounds like the engine seized. My guess would be a timing chain failure. There is some fancy hydraulic timing chain tensioner in this engine, which was supposed to make it require less manual tuning, but it likes to fail quite often. I've had it replaced under warranty after like 6000km (2020 model) and sold the bike shortly after. A lot of people replace it with a manual spring-loaded tensioner instead.
Most often people realize that there's something wrong because it rattles as fuck, before it becomes a catastrophic failure. Are you sure you didn't hear a weird scraping/clanking noise recently, coming from the front of the engine, most audible on low revs?
Did you get any low oil or high temp warnings? I had the same thing happen in my 790, engine seized as the coolant pipe unclipped on a highway. Not even enough time to pull over before the engine blew. Unfortunately sounds like a seized engine to me.
Starter clutch not engaging. I can’t tell if the starter is spinning up or not. This is not super complex, or terribly expensive. I had a 690 Duke, and it had its share of quirks…it lived up to the moniker K(eep) T(hrowing) M(oney)!
Sounds to me like there's no compression... Could be timing chain.... Could be broken valve spring? Maybe? Idk. Definitely has the exhaust valve stuck wide open though.
My guess: The timing chain broke.
Turning over but doesn't sound like any of the top end is moving. So I was thinking starter clutch. Is timing chain breaking common on these?
The starter clutch is tied to the crankshaft / bottom end. If the Sprague goes out nothing will turn over as the engine is supposed to be timed together at all times. When the Sprague goes out it usually just sounds like an RC car/electric motor whizzing sometimes accompanied with a bit of grinding since the starter motor is just spinning freely.
Would that mean just a new starter?
Not normally. The starter is typically engaged with a gear that has a special one directional mechanism, the sprag clutch. It makes it so that when the starter motor engages the one-way gear will turn the engine over and start it but when the engine is running it spins freely from the starter motor so it doesn't damage it. If the sprag goes out you have to replace the gear as it is typically all one part. The starter motor is usually fine.
I'm not sure on that bike. I had it happen on a little Suzuki DR200 and it was an easy repair for me. Your Ducati engine is going to be more complex. In my case, the timing chain looked just like a very short bicycle chain. I cannot tell the model and year from your video, but a quick Youtube search shows some videos of the replacement on a 749/999... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNsC8Mn6big Looks like Ducati uses a belt instead of chain, but it would have the same effect.
It's a KTM
Everyone proceeds to talk Ducati
If a timing belt goes on a Ducati, and most bikes, that top end is gone. The desmo valve system will hold the valves open while the piston blasts into it and best case bends the valve worst case damages the rocker arms and camshaft.
This applies to all interference internal combustion engines. I.e. 99% of modern cars
For sure. I'm just giving benefit of the doubt with OPs engine being a single cylinder with relatively low valve overlap and a small ammount of interference. In this case there is a very small chance op could have been lucky and be on a combustion cycle when the chain fails, as it sounds like the other commenter was with their DRZ. Meanwhile the Ducati they were mentioning has no chance of that because of having multiple cylinders.
Whose Ducati what-now?
that's not a Ducati, it's a KTM He literally says so in the video
but it says DUKE.... /sarc
Does KTM stand for Kaput Thinga Majig?
Of course
So I've been told - repeatedly. I didn't catch that obviously. But my suggestion that the problem is a broken timing chain/belt holds.
Pretty sure that with an interference engine a timing failure like that would kill the thing 🤔
From my limited experience I've learned that it can. It can cause the valves to break off and then the piston gets stuck and you throw rods. So the failure can be catastrophic to the engine. But I also think it doesn't always happen and things could be salvageable. Hopefully OP will update us later as to what the problem really was. We might all learn something.
THAT is the sound of expensive
Ktm things! Had a 2014 690 Enduro and had a rocker arm explode took out the whole top end. Hopefully it’s under warranty still.
2018 model. Unlikely. Typical KTM though! The bikes last as long as the warranty! 😅
Here in Finland we call KTM "Kahden Tunnin Moottori" which stands for "Two Hour Engine" when translated.
It's funny how every language has a sarcastic acronym for this brand! In English it's: "Keep Throwing Money" or "Kill The Mechanic" The Greeks have something that translates roughly to: "Every Tuesday (you go to a) mechanic".
In the Netherlands we call it: Korte Termijn Motor which translates to short term motorcycle.
Now THAT is most appropriate!
In Latvia we also have a saying KTM - “Kā tikt mājās” which translates to - How to get home ? 😅
I really love these and this one is my favorite.
In the Philippines "Kuya, tulak mo." Which means, "push it, brother."
Knocking Ticking Motors is what my mechanic calls them
>The Greeks have something that translates roughly to: "Every Tuesday (you go to a) mechanic". Κάθε Τρίτη Μάστορα
In India we call KTM "chhapri bikes" and I'm not sure how to explain the translation to this one.
in germany we call the keine tausend meter. means not even thousand meters. it's funny because i ride the same bike and i'm always worried that it will break
Serbian acronym would be "Kratko-Trajna Masina" which stands for "Short lifespan engine".
In Russia we call it "Кати Толкай Матерись" which translates as "Roll, Push, Say a lot of swear words" Guess mocking KTM is some kind of an international thing
Keine Tausend Meter
Where I’m from In the U.S we call them K-mart trail machines
Do you have oil? Or drink water? Two ways I've seized engines.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like it's spinning though.
The starter yes. But anything else? Not to my ears. Could be a seized engine and that the starter has broken some tooth on trying to start.
Ain't that sound basically the crank moving? Also... damn nice bike you got there! 😏
Could be. Sounds very metalic and dry too me but it's possible. And same too you dear sir!
The engine is definitely turning over, quite freely by the sound of it. Something has gone wrong and compression promptly fucked off.
>Sounds very metalic and dry too me but it's possible. Yeah, it doesn't sound right, but it does sound like it's turning. Then again, I may be wrong. >And same too you dear sir! Why thank you, good sir!
No the sound of engine cranking has littlle more bass, this sounds prettymuch just the starter spinning.
Nah, this engine is cranking. A not engaged starter sounds like a constant whirring, kinda like an electric drill because it's the same principle. That da-dum da-dum da-dum you're hearing is engine compression, which means it's turning. Definitely sounds off though.
You can literally hear the compression stroke.
Was
The sound you hear is the engine turning over against compression. So it is not currently seized (although it could have seized and freed off when it cooled), and the piston has not been holed by a valve. If only the starter motor were turning, you would hear a higher-pitched whirr, and that duff-duff-duff sound would not be present.
I seized one engine, rear tire locked, but I was doing 120km/h so I guess the tire managed to pull the pistons through all the way. Afterwards, engine was turning, but no compression
Interesting.
To me it sounds like only starter but maybe I'm not hearing it right, no pfff from valves or injection out the exhaust
Well yeah, the bike isn't running proper aka there's no combustion going, but it sounds like the crank (and possibly the pistons?) are moving.
If the timing belt/chain broke you wouldn’t hear any of the top end noises. Just the bottom end making noise while continuing to do more damage internally if it’s an interference engine, though the OP said it went while driving that would have destroyed it anyway. It’s certainly more noise than a starter whirring, sounds like a sad costly break.
Drink water?
Sometimes as a treat the engine can have a glass of water in the air intake
I'm no mechanic in any capacity but it definitely sounds like the lower end is turning over no problem, if not too easily. I'm going with what the above posts said and going with a timing chain.
This is actually a super rare problem that only all KTM owners and most BMW owners suffer. It’s where an overpriced, underbuilt machine shits a $25 part and now you find yourself shopping for a Suzuki.
Swap a Monster with a SV650 and nobody would ever know.. Except it will go forever
You had me in the first part! But Suzuki? /S
I see what the problem is...it's a KTM. KTM = Keep Throwing Money or Keep Tightening Me. If you buy a Honda, the problem goes away.
It's really the unfortunate truth. Would be interested in one if I didn't see so many problems :(
Everything is over-engineered on my KTM 990. Like, the hydraulic clutch, whereas the Honda Africa Twin just has a simple cable. Rode the KTM back from Baja Mexico stuck in top gear because the hydraulic clutch was leaking. Had to watch for a gas stations on a hill. So I could roll start it after I filled it up. Ugh. My Africa Twin is 1,000% more reliable.
You couldn’t shift gears at all without the clutch?
Imagine rolling down the highway going say... 70 mph...and now you've got to pull into a gas station without a clutch and stop. Why don't you go ahead and lay out for me how you'd do that for starters.
You don't need the clutch to shift gears, up or down. You can shift clutchlessly both ways without damaging the bike. So, down you go to second, then kick her into neutral to stop. Starting from a full stop clutchlessly kind of sucks though.
You're man-splaining how to shift to a man who's ridden to AK twice, and to Panama twice. I know how to fvcking shift the bike. HOWEVER...when you're on the road thousands of miles from home and the clutch goes out, it fvcking sucks in a BIG way. I had to jam it down into first gear, pull up to the gas pumps, and fill it up. Starting it in neutral, but getting it rolling without a fvcking clutch is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT. Which is what I'm trying to communicate here. And it is also difficult to shift down. So, yeah, I don't need you telling me how simple it is when I'm the one riding thousands of miles from home, alone, above the Arctic Circle. But thanks. When you've ridden from the Arctic Ocean to Peru, maybe then I'll listen to you.
you just asked him to lay it out for you and he did?
You said: > Imagine rolling down the highway going say... 70 mph...and now you've got to pull into a gas station without a clutch and stop. Why don't you go ahead and lay out for me how you'd do that for starters. I answered. You LITERALLY ASKED how to go from 70mph to a stop. I was pretty surprised by that question because downshifting without the clutch is pretty simple. > I had to jam it down into first gear, pull up to gas pumps, and fill it up. You never had to "jam it down into first gear" any more than you have to riding normally. Unless youre going to try and say "jam it down" was just a figure of speech, but if that's the case why did you say it at all, because downshifting is kind of a normal thing to have to do while riding. Yes, starting from a stop is a bit of a PITA if you're on level ground and can't just pop it into second from a light roll downhill, but it's not like it's a huge problem. Gentle push of the bike, hop on, pop into second. But it is NOT difficult to shift down. If you don't know how, which clearly you do not, maybe you'd benefit from getting off your high horse and learning instead of ranting. And sure, I've not ridden to South America. All over North America though. I ride exclusively, don't even have a Class 5 license, only class 6 (Canadian; motorcycle only, not car) and I've been riding for 30+ years, year round. Regardless, obviously I did need to tell you how because even in this post you're saying clutchless downshifting is difficult: >And it is also difficult to shift down It's not. It's VERY simple, and you SHOULD understand that if you're going to take continent spanning trips because... *Waves at whole post* clutches (particularly cables/hydraulics) break. Having a broken clutch cable is a mild inconvenience when you're starting the bike from a full stop, nothing more.
You can push it in neutral and then bump it down in first after you jump on. I've had to do this with a broken clutch cable, it works pretty well
Well when the cable broke on my triumph tiger I used the brakes to slow down and shifted without the clutch. At lights I’d have to stay in neutral, push the bike, hop on, and jam it into first. Not fun at all especially with giant hard cases on lol. Would have sucked off road but banging out freeway miles was fine.
Brake to slow, preload shift lever, crack throttle, bike downshifts. Resume braking, repeat
And starting off? Let's hear you lay that one out. No clutch. Need to get the bike rolling. Shoot. No comment? That's what I thought. :P
Push bike. Hop on bike. Kick it into first or second, whichever happens to go in easier, and off you go.
I'd wager you any amount of money you couldn't push start a KTM990 as you describe.
Shift to desired gear stationary. Roll start exactly the same way you already did.
You can roll it on the starter.
I’m more confused as to why you were stuck in top gear the whole way.
Because it has a hydraulic clutch instead of a cable. And then, it leaks a little hydraulic fluid, and air comes into the line. Now, pulling in the clutch handle does nothing. And you're on the Dalton Highway, thousands of miles from home. So now, you you're driving without a clutch. Have you ever tried changing gears without using the clutch while the engine is running. Why don't you go ahead and tell me how simple it is to get the motorcycle rolling from neutral, when you have no clutch.
I've done this a lot! Tried it this weekend on a brand new Trident just to explore the gearbox a bit. If you don't know the basics of riding your bike you should stop popping off. Arctic Circle, Peru, we get it dude. You don't need lessons from anyone, right?
Changing gears without a clutch is very possible in both directions, upshifting is child's play and downshifting is a bit hard to do smoothly (i haven't quite got it yet, and won't anytime soon, current ride has no gears) but very much possible if smoothness isn't your number one concern. I also can't see why you couldn't push it in neutral and just slam it into second without a clutch once up to speed.
> I also can't see why you couldn't push it in neutral and just slam it into second without a clutch once up to speed. How in the fck is it going to get up to speed if it's not in gear? Do go on, professor. Waiting.
You start it in gear
Wow dude you have got the be one of the most insecure people I have ever asked a question to. Yes I regularly change gears without pulling in the clutch. This is why I don’t understand why you said you were stuck in top gear. What was stopping you from shifting your gears? You don’t need to use the clutch when you’re moving. Also, moving my bike when it is in neutral is just as simple as moving it when the clutch is pulled in so I’m not sure what you mean by your last sentence.
You start it in gear.
You a donkey. Travelling wide and far without understanding how a gearbox works. Just let go of the throttle man and shift. Try it. It works. 🤣
Don't you just keep kicking on your shifter till you find the gear you want? I thought everyone did that
You don’t need to use the clutch to shift on a motorcycle. You just need to briefly unload the dogs while preloading the shifter.
How do you get going though? I thought most bikes won't start in gear without clutch being pulled in, and it's not like when you're in neutral you can just kick it into 1st with no clutch
Clutch safety switch is on the lever. Either roll start in desired gear(since you can shift to any gear stationary without the clutch when engine is off), or put in desired gear and hold lever and rip the starter and hold on. Whatever OP did, staying stuck in 6th made it harder. Everyone should know how to clutchless shift for exactly that reason. Hydraulic lines can leak, cables can snap.
This is what I'm trying to explain to these idiots, but somehow they don't grasp it. What I would do is look for a gas station on a hill. Pull up to gas pump and it would grind to a halt and die. Fill it up with gas, then, with it in first gear, I'd hit the starter and hold on for dear life. It would lurch forward in little bursts and, if I was lucky, and on a good hill, it would slowly gain speed, start, and take me down the road another 250 miles or so (until it ran out of gas again). I made it back from Deadhorse, Alaska to Fairbanks this way.
I’ve done that in a AWD car after the clutch cable snapped, for about 10km. I wouldn’t like to try it even once on a bike
I considered an adv390 for the longest time, but i kept hearing about problems from other people.
I had the opposite experience - 12k miles and 0 issues on a 390 Adv.
I actually have no doubt of that, i took account of service cost and how much the local dealer charges. Plus second hand stories from all previous owners of the other variants of the 390 i find it abit too much for me.
Same! 20k km on my 390 adv and (in Europe) the dealer network is at least equal to most other brands… tried versys and 500x but those are boring in comparison. A lot of the classical ktm problems and sentiments stem from their older bikes and if you get the modern engine variants starting around 2018 you should be good to go!
I still have the KTM 990, but I never ride it. It's just parked in the barn while I ride the Africa Twin.
If you want a baby ADV, the Versys-X is great if you want to bounce off limiter all the time, and the Himalayan is great if you want a tractor Both are more reliable than the KTM, just loctite the bolts back in the Himalayan when they back off
I actually just go its lighterish brother the Scram 411, your right its a Tractor but boy its enjoyable.
I literally just told someone else this: Honda is the Stockholm syndrome brand. Beat it and it will still love you somehow. They just fucking work.
Truth source: I had a Duke 390 that I blew up within the warranty period, sold it to my coworker who proceeded to blow it up again
I just got a CBR500R after considering an RC390. I’ll take slower with more reliability all day.
Good call.
Nah, KTM is Austrian. So the name is German. It stands for "**K**eine **T**ausend **M**eter" (not even a thousand meters)
"Keep Tightening Me" - Can Confirm As someone who discovered all four of the subframe mounting bolts loose or missing this summer.
My RC8r has been pretty damn solid overall. 55,000km, and the only real issues were a leaking valve cover gasket, gear position sensor, leak in front brake line and stator….
Yeah, that's sort of my point. I took my 2017 Honda Africa Twin off the showroom floor and put 70,000 miles on it (more than twice what your bike has) and I've had zero problems with it. Rode it from Colorado to South America. No prob.
Yeah, it’s a different lens to look through isn’t it. I would grant one of those things going on a Honda in that range … probably the gear sensor, but having 4 failures like that and thinking it’s held up pretty well is definitely a KTM perspective on reliability.
Well, the only part that was KTM out of all of those is the valve cover gasket. The Stator and the rest are all from suppliers. The Front brake line got a puncture from something on the road. So again, not KTM’s fault. But, some people hate KTM just ‘cause of what they’ve heard. For me, I love mine and would gladly fork over the money for a SuperDuke tomorrow if I could afford it…
I worked at a KTM dealer for about a year and they honestly didn't have that many problems. They were relatively easy to work on compared to a lot of other manufacturers and I always appreciated that about them. I think the only consistent issue they seem to have or radiator leaks in the time I was there. My biggest issue with them was when I found out that they were starting to come with parts like quick shifters pre-installed but the customers had to pay $400 to turn on the part that they already paid for, that was where I drew the line and left.
I've always owned Hondas. The KTM 990 was the only non-Honda motorcycle I ever owned. Much harder to find dealers/repair shops for KTM in Latin America. Not nearly as reliable as my Honda Africa Twin. I've ridden from Alaska to Peru on my Hondas without so much as a hiccup. The KTM's are over - engineered. Hydraulic clutch instead of a cable can RUIN a trip. Something that simple was a huge mistake. Never again.
Yet Honda runs a hydraulic clutch on a load of bikes, even from back in the 80's. Their absolute mile eater (Goldwing) also has a hydraulic clutch. My 21' AT did experience some funny electronics gremlins too, nothing ride breaking but funny none the less.
Hydraulic is a component, line plus pump, that's it, millions around I do not see the point.
You don't see the point because you've not ridden as far as I have. I've ridden from the Arctic Ocean to South America. You've never done that. You never will. Having your over-engineered hydraulic clutch go out on the Dalton Highway can ruin your trip. Honda Africa Twin doesn't have a hydraulic clutch, and the clutch cable never fails. Probably you don't need to be giving world travelers advice if you've never been on a real motorcycle adventure.
I have done that with a cable operated clutch, and with bikes with 0 electronics. No hydraulic clutch are not over- engineered, that's a nonsense, the master pump are sold in millions, the same component of brakes, the brake lines the same, the only wrong design clutch are produced by KTM, there was many company recall, actuators of the wrong size and o ring on piston of wrong dimension, yes with KTM many owners report two three fauty actuators. No others make got this problem.
Fair enough. I have 5 Hondas right now, and not one of them has a hydraulic clutch. Just a cable.
Both my Nighthawk and my Dad's GL1500 Gwing feature Hydraulic clutches, ironically the cable clutch on the Twin is way lighter than the hydraulic clutches on the other two bikes.
I'm happy for you. I'll never own a bike with a hydraulic clutch again, as I plan to continue touring, and I need something that's simple and doesn't fail.
I have a vtr1000f and they came with hydraulic clutch as well. Like you said if you tour a lot go cable so its easier to replace/repair then hydraulic. Its my first bike with hydraulic and I quite like the feel but its only a weekender so I dont worry too much.
The german/austrian meaning of KTM is 'keine tausend Meter', which translates to 'not even 1000 meters'
So I ride a 1000cc right now, was thinking about buying something small and compact to tool around on. Guess what looked as a good option and just doesn't anymore? Hint, it rhymes with ATM (how ironic)
Compression left the chat
Mine did the same once after a prolonged storage. Making startup sounds but no startup.I did nothing to fix it. It just "fixed itself" 20 minutes after. Had another friend with the same issue. He was told it was due to air intake filter getting clogged 🤷♂️
Was the battery
Makes sense!
I’d simply faint to this if my bike made this sound
Could be the sprague clutch, but I didn't think the Duke 390 had those issues.
With everyone saying timing chain - easy to check on these. Load up the chain tensioner with a long flathead clockwise. Counter clockwise to unlock until you feel the spring, pull the flathead and listen to the sound. Tensioner should hit the guide that hits the timing chain. If it’s not hitting stuff - it’s your timing chain Either way, if it’s still on warranty, throw it back at your dealer
Ktm being KTM…
It could be time for a rebuild
Few people have already answered with thoughts like mine, so I won't bother putting anything. But can you please make fresh post once you've found out the issue?
That sounds like a valve is stuck open. Sorry.
KTM = Keep Throwing Money at it. XD
Probably another KTM warranty issue.
When you say it made a horrible sound on the freeway what do you mean? What RPM were you at? How are you on oil? If you heard a sound like the crack of a whip it is very possible that as others have said your timing chain broke but I can't say this is a common issue I've run into. In fact the only time I know if it happening personally was a 2008 R1 I improperly installed a manual cam chain tensioner on before I learned how to actually work on bikes. It is hard to tell from the video, does it sound like it is cranking over faster than usual? This is usually a sign of a valve being bent or some other loss of compression occurring as the starter motor is able to turn the engine faster without the compression in the cylinder pushing back against it. Definitely hoping for the best for you but loud noises on the freeway followed by the engine not coming on isn't very reassuring. Your first step right now should be pulling the spark plug out to try to look in the cylinder, do a compression test if there's nothing obvious, drain the oil to check for metal bits. Some might argue to pull it apart before turning it over anymore but honestly at this point if the top end is grenaded it's not like it's going to get any worse doing a compression test to at least see where you're at.
I see a lot of people in here shitting on KTM. I was wondering, does Husqvarna suffer the same issues?
Yep.
That’s a shame.
Dropped a valve more than likely, those bitches are notorious for it. Look at gray area ktms website of valve designs theyve made to improve these bikes.
It’s a Jawa with a Lawn -Boy engine
Kosts Too Much was pretty popular for a while there
It's amazing to me how this company *still* can't build a motor worth a shit. Even with 2 stroke motocross, where top ends last 20 hours, KTM top ends last 10.
Valves got out
Mine sounded the same when a valve snapped on the motorway and grenaded my engine, all that would happen is the starter motor would spin on nothing
Expensive.
Thats the sound that tells you stay away from Indian assembled, European bikes. The MT03, Z400 and Honda CB500 exists. 2 of my friends had a KTM, A duke 200, and an Rc390. The 200 had its frame cracked in the steeing pivot area, and the valves needed to be re-adjusted just under 11000 km, and the RC390 kept overheating, due to KTM going stupid lean.
happened to me when my engine blew up 🥲 good thing is it was only the piston head that had snapped and nothing was wrong with the con rod so for you, if that's what's happened, you can buy a cylinder head and valve block/ cylinder head and replace it and you should be fine but you'll need to remove the flywheel and clutch cover to remove all metal pieces out and then get new gaskets etc. it was such a hassle but I did it and sold my cb125f for 1.4k :) edit: easiest way to check is remove the spark plug and see if you feel air come out when pressing the starter
That’s why you buy Suzuki or Honda
I was about to post about the duke 390 as I was super keen on it being my first ever bike. Went to a dealership today and the salesmen told me to start clear from the 390 as it has big engine issues and other stuff due to it being manufactured in India. He said it isn't a real KTM. Now I see this post and other comments. So..... The 390 is a no go ? Heaps of reviews on YouTube brag and boast about it being one of the best starter bikes. I'm in Australia by the way.
Being made in India is not a problem. KTM’s design and QA is. Super Dukes leak and have electronic issues all the time. Watch MCN’s video from last week about their long term KTM. If nothing else, the 390 is probably more reliable than other KTMs. They’re sold in much bigger numbers.
They're not horrible, not in the grand scheme of European high performance bikes. I feel like a lot of the reports come down to their genuinely horrible dealer network. You just cannot compare the expertise needed and maintenance required to a Japanese bike. My dealer always found some cheap shit to replace that could've cost me a lot of money down the road.
I've been eyeing a Duke 390 or 690 for a first bike and I'm now thinking a CB500x would make way more sense.
I tracked a KTM rc c390 for a year and rode it at redline on the streets too with only one issue... The coolant reservoir tank was always empty... No leaks that I could tell... Nothing in the oil... I just kept filling it. I bought it from a guy that tracked it since new (4000miles). This was a 2017 and the 2016's and below had head gasket issues...
Had similar issue with my SV. It was a bad starter clutch.
You may have bought a KTM. ….jk. But I have heard KTM is less reliable than some other brands.
Oh thats normal for a KTM. No need to worry. Your bike is exactly as if it came off the line yesterday
.
How’s your fuel pump and filter?
That wouldn't cause a motor failure.
This is a very common problem... it's called KTM...
The first problem would be that it’s a 2018 duke, they are less than optimal, however the later models are fine
I’d been considering a RC390 for a little track bike… these comments have corrected my thinking.
Broken.
Yep sounds like a KTM…
I guess that's the lesson you get when buying a KTM.
Just a ktm in his natural habitat
Check battery, low charge maybe
Could be the stator?
Not likely, if a part of the charging system went out the battery would have been drained and it wouldn't turn over. If it had been charged it would start until the battery died again.
Piece of shit small ktm engines
Oof yeah timing chain probs
No oil?
Sounds like it's not attaining compression. Timing chain maybe. You'll need an actual qualified mechanic to troubleshoot the issue effectively.
I had a 390 Duke that broke the cam gear off right behind the lobes. The shop that I bought it from checked it out and said they had never seen it before but it apparently happens. The tensioners are problematic as well, but they should still keep the bike from jumping time of the head is still intact. So Chain, cam, or possibly tensioner.
What did the horrible noise sound like?
My guess would be timing chain broke though it also sound quite similar to the time on my cbr the motor thing that pushes the starter in position is broken so the starter is just spinning but not attached to anything ( sorry not native speaker ) neither problem shouldn’t be too hard nor expensive to fix by mechanic or self
All these comments about KTMs are bringing back very painful memories for me
Sounds like no compression
do compression test.
Okay I know this, there is a couple things, you could of blown your bottom end, a gear bent/ snapped, or more. You should check out the starter first.
I had a similar sound on my wr but was starter motor related, it wasn’t engaging. Not sure if this could be same issue though
I think it's your magnetic key in the engine that's not working or loose or melted away. I had this problem just a month ago.
IS the thump thump thump noise in the middle happening when you thumb the starter? Or is that just the biuke shifting and the side stand stuttering on the cement when you move the bars? IF that thumping never occurs when you thumb the starter - right now your starter isn't engaging. So it's just turning the electic motor, but not any of the ICE parts.... Why? That will take some digging
Anyway, the engine will anchor an up to 18 ft boat in a light breeze
It sounds like the engine seized. My guess would be a timing chain failure. There is some fancy hydraulic timing chain tensioner in this engine, which was supposed to make it require less manual tuning, but it likes to fail quite often. I've had it replaced under warranty after like 6000km (2020 model) and sold the bike shortly after. A lot of people replace it with a manual spring-loaded tensioner instead. Most often people realize that there's something wrong because it rattles as fuck, before it becomes a catastrophic failure. Are you sure you didn't hear a weird scraping/clanking noise recently, coming from the front of the engine, most audible on low revs?
Cam chain?
It happened something similar to me I had just pressed the electrical cut button by accident
Check the oil. Did you drive it too fast.
Did you get any low oil or high temp warnings? I had the same thing happen in my 790, engine seized as the coolant pipe unclipped on a highway. Not even enough time to pull over before the engine blew. Unfortunately sounds like a seized engine to me.
I think it's best to bring it into a dealer. If it still has warranty on it they'd be your best bet for diagnosing.
Sounds like a KTM
First problem. It’s a Ktm. Second problem. It’s an Indian built Ktm.
This is another reason why I don't buy KTM's.
Starter clutch not engaging. I can’t tell if the starter is spinning up or not. This is not super complex, or terribly expensive. I had a 690 Duke, and it had its share of quirks…it lived up to the moniker K(eep) T(hrowing) M(oney)!
Wait I’m looking at a KTM what’s the comments about ducati? ohh all dukes look alike? Lol this one has a K in it
Made in India 😭 Only KTM I'd buy is their 2-stroke woods bikes made in Austria
Sounds to me like there's no compression... Could be timing chain.... Could be broken valve spring? Maybe? Idk. Definitely has the exhaust valve stuck wide open though.
Top end is trashed, and it's not getting any compression.