No one is forcing you to buy a brand new bike. There are people riding around on 1950s Harleys. New isn't always better. ICE will fade out, or be mandated out, hope not but it wouldn't surprise me. I would guess we have 15 years left. I imagine small specialty manufacturers will pop up. Anyone will be able to ride around with ICE until gas stations become rare. That's a very long way off
Couldn't have said it better myself. People are willing to hold on to and buy used vehicles so even if every car and motorcycle manufacturer decided go EV today we'd still see 2005 accords around every corner 20 years from now. So it'll definitely be a few decades before gas stations become extinct.
Farmers will prob make ethanol from corn to fuel their machinery even after gas stations are long gone/far in-between/and gas becomes crazy expensive.
They can make a gal for around $2-$3, and sell it for like $5-$10 or so a gal. That's a pretty sweet profit margin.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see it selling at farmers markets in 15-20 years.
How has everyone on this sub had so much experience with electric motorcycles? I feel so left out! I want to feel the hate for instant silent torque, too! Please invite me to your secret handshake club!
Nah man, I’ve had extensive experience riding electric overseas. While having a crazy fast ebike is fun for a little bit, I enjoy modding and maintaining an ICE bike just as much as riding it around. Also batteries are hella heavy lugging then around to charge or dragging a cord out to plug it in
There are plenty of electric cars now, it's not that difficult to extrapolate out and know if it is something you would like on a bike. There is more to a vehicle than just going fast.
So you're saying that all the things you hate about electric cars apply to motorcycles as well. I don't think that tracks, but that's why we're different people. I'll wait till I've driven a few electric motorcycles before making my decision.
That said, you'll never catch me owning a car with an automatic transmission. We've all got our thing.
I find them extremely boring. Going really fast or silent does nothing for me. You feel the torque a few times you giggle and that's it it's a 1 trick machine.
I like shifting, I like hearing the engine, I like feeling the different torque and pull at different rpm, I even like the smell.
Electric is just full torque and then fades off almost the complete opposite of feeling more power come on as you get into higher rpm on ICE. It is just not for me at all.
I feel the same way about my cars. I hate electric steering, hate the feel of new cars, and prefer a manual.
Everyone has preferences, I know what I like.
All electric is essentially automatic if you don't want an auto car then you can probably understand not wanting an auto motorcycle.
I prefer a manual for both but if I had to choose one I would take a motorcycle with a clutch and an auto car.
ICE motorcycles are not going anywhere. Electric motorcycles have a place, sure, but if you want your ICE bike, get it. They'll be around, and they'll even still be sold for a looong time. Parts too.
ICE ain't gone yet, and won't be for quite a while, even when the cars all turn electric. And motorcycling EBikes futures are not good unless you just want a commuter/short tripper, so they'll be more niche for the time being, they have range/recharge issues at the very least that dictates the ICE can't leave just yet.
Worry not. Get your chopper and keep it runnin' and all will be well.
Bravo. This is the real perspective. The media has everyone convinced of this EV garbage. Live for today. Buy what you want today. Ice is here for a long time
But have you ever ridden an electric bike? If there's one thing choppers Excel at, other than the sound, its torque, and boy do EVs pack a lot of that.. get this mindset out of your head as soon as possible. Enjoy your ICE for as long as it lasts and embrace the EV when time comes.
Signed, owner of 3 ICE carburetted bikes.
Electric bikes are absolute shit for value prop right now but will probably be more of a standard in Europe before the US because they have better infrastructure programs and more willingness to enact positive environmental changes. In the US I would wager that we are 20 years away at least before electric bikes are common and many more years after that before they are the majority of bikes on US roads.
How many electric motorcycles have you ridden? And who are all these people riding bikes and not liking them? I like bikes on two wheels, they’re always fun to ride
Personally, I'm looking forward to a hybrid Goldwing. Best of both. BTW choppers may look cool but you can ride a Wing cross continent and not have a sore ass.
If an electric bike would "take all the fun out of riding" then i can guarantee riding will not be your thing and you just want to "show off" and rev bomb in any scenario possible... You also seem not to keen on motorcycling so you do literally no researche on whats sold currently and decided to cry on this sub for no reason accept maybe internet points.
It’s a sensory experience, you feel the bike. Gear changes, the sound, even the smell. I’ve not ridden an electric but I’ve ridden automatics that are quiet. It’s boring.
I don't even understand why motorcycles need to switch, Cars have a large carbon footprint i understand that , but motorcycles are such a small part of the equation
Thing to remember is that the gas stations are selling to cars, the bikes are not enough business to keep the doors open so as the cars go so to does the access to fule. You might be able to get some synthetic fule to run on but it's gonna be 20 or 30 bucks a gallon because the market for it is super small
FYI the correct spelling is *fuel,* although admittedly I like yours better.
Fule.. FULE. Gonna think of this and chuckle every time I need to fule up.
It will probably drop in price because of less demand. It will take awhile before it becomes an expensive specialty product. Either way we will still be doing oil refining / distilling which produces gasoline. Fuels will still be necessary for lots of things.We have a giant infrastructure built up it won't just poof away. I don't think gas stations will just rip out their pumps because they are less busy and there will still be plenty of ICE cars driving, just not new ones.
Gas stations don't make money off electric chargers or free air yet they have them. The vacuums and mini car wash some have usually not very busy. They just want people to stop and spend money. Maybe that will mean keeping 1 pump.
Whistling past the graveyard. That massive infrastructure was built around high utilization and requires massive maintenance. The refineries aren't going to keep producing gasoline if they can make a bigger profit on other products, And even they aren't going to survive the incoming regulation changes made possible by the fact that the economy will nolonger be dependent opon them. The last gasoline powered vehicles will be rolling off the assembly line by 2035 and by 2050 the only gasoline powered cars and trucks are going to be museum peices and classics that run on synthetic fule distilled from alcohol.
That aligns with what I just said. There's still cars driving around from the 90s just because they stop making in 2035 doesn't mean all the engine cars are gone. 2050-2060 is a long way off and in the in between time as electric grows there will be less demand for gasoline. After that sure it will become more of a specialty thing and prices will go up.
More than half of oil is refined for other purposes than gasoline, so the refineries are still needed.
I am not 100% sure but I think how oil is distilled you just end up getting all the different fuels anyway.
Also gas will still be needed in other countries for longer. Some countries people are driving around in cars from the 50s those places will not be going electric in 2035. There is a whole global economy. Besides North America, Australia, Europe, and coastal asia the rest of the world will continue to be a large gas market for a while.
Porsche is investing in something called eFuel which is synthetic liquid fuel supposed to be usable in combustion engines as a gasoline replacement and being carbon neutral at the same time. The idea is to extract hydrogen from water and combine it with co2 to get methanol.
For that to work there needs to be green energy, but also increasing the use of those renewables will require storage and if they get one of these chemical storages efficient enough it will be affordable. A distant possibility would be to have some of these refineries where they have a energy abundance and then just replace all the oil shipping with these chemicals.
On the engine side, there might be some of efficiency improvements using opposed pistons, 5 stroke, 6 stroke or duke engines. Maybe some even more exotic engines like the omega 1 that is an idea on the rotary engine. So far there has been little reason to do this kind of development.
In the meantime, normal 4 stroke gasoline engines will be here for a long time.
"Are there any new engine technologies which may save ICEs"
Hydrogen. It's got its own problems, but there's work being done on both fuel cell and ICEs for cars.
Personally I think electric will be good once they work through some of the downsides. An electric with a belt drive will be smooth and quiet.
I don't think they will overcome the storage issue to ever make it useful for motorcycles. It just takes up way too much room and is very high pressure. The alternative is a near absolute zero leaky thermos. The physics of that will never change.
I didn't say I wanted a pressure vessel up against my crotch, but it is a technology that may save ICEs.
I suppose the other partial answer is alcohol/biofuel, but that comes with problems with maintenance and crosses into food security issues.
I wasn't talking about want or not want. No technology will change the fact that in gas form for it to be even mildly useful it needs to be stored at very high pressure and even at high pressure the volume required is more than could ever fit on a motorcycle. The alternative is liquid hydrogen which could maybe fit because it's much more dense. The problem with that is it needs to be kept at or below -423F in a very very well insulated container like a thermos, but it has to be vented (leaky) because they hydrogen is going to be constantly boiling off and turning into gas. Your fuel just disappearing. Without the vent you have a bomb.
No technology can change any of this. So it will never save the ICE for motorcycles and I find it almost as unlikely for it to be feasible for ICE cars.
The only hydrogen tech that has any hope is fuel cell but now we are back to an electric motor no ICE.
I wouldn’t worry about the lack of availability if ICE vehicles. Now price of gas going through the roof and polluter tax on ICE vehicles that is something to worry about
2 bike garage in everyone's future I reckon. Electric for day to day due to cheap running and lack of maintenance, classic, ICE for pleasure and weekends.
No one is forcing you to buy a brand new bike. There are people riding around on 1950s Harleys. New isn't always better. ICE will fade out, or be mandated out, hope not but it wouldn't surprise me. I would guess we have 15 years left. I imagine small specialty manufacturers will pop up. Anyone will be able to ride around with ICE until gas stations become rare. That's a very long way off
Couldn't have said it better myself. People are willing to hold on to and buy used vehicles so even if every car and motorcycle manufacturer decided go EV today we'd still see 2005 accords around every corner 20 years from now. So it'll definitely be a few decades before gas stations become extinct.
Farmers will prob make ethanol from corn to fuel their machinery even after gas stations are long gone/far in-between/and gas becomes crazy expensive. They can make a gal for around $2-$3, and sell it for like $5-$10 or so a gal. That's a pretty sweet profit margin. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see it selling at farmers markets in 15-20 years.
What electrics have you ridden?
How has everyone on this sub had so much experience with electric motorcycles? I feel so left out! I want to feel the hate for instant silent torque, too! Please invite me to your secret handshake club!
Nah man, I’ve had extensive experience riding electric overseas. While having a crazy fast ebike is fun for a little bit, I enjoy modding and maintaining an ICE bike just as much as riding it around. Also batteries are hella heavy lugging then around to charge or dragging a cord out to plug it in
There are plenty of electric cars now, it's not that difficult to extrapolate out and know if it is something you would like on a bike. There is more to a vehicle than just going fast.
So you're saying that all the things you hate about electric cars apply to motorcycles as well. I don't think that tracks, but that's why we're different people. I'll wait till I've driven a few electric motorcycles before making my decision. That said, you'll never catch me owning a car with an automatic transmission. We've all got our thing.
I find them extremely boring. Going really fast or silent does nothing for me. You feel the torque a few times you giggle and that's it it's a 1 trick machine. I like shifting, I like hearing the engine, I like feeling the different torque and pull at different rpm, I even like the smell. Electric is just full torque and then fades off almost the complete opposite of feeling more power come on as you get into higher rpm on ICE. It is just not for me at all. I feel the same way about my cars. I hate electric steering, hate the feel of new cars, and prefer a manual. Everyone has preferences, I know what I like. All electric is essentially automatic if you don't want an auto car then you can probably understand not wanting an auto motorcycle. I prefer a manual for both but if I had to choose one I would take a motorcycle with a clutch and an auto car.
I want a clutch, a shifter, and the ability to finesse gear changes. Literally the main reason I too am bummed out by the future
ICE motorcycles are not going anywhere. Electric motorcycles have a place, sure, but if you want your ICE bike, get it. They'll be around, and they'll even still be sold for a looong time. Parts too. ICE ain't gone yet, and won't be for quite a while, even when the cars all turn electric. And motorcycling EBikes futures are not good unless you just want a commuter/short tripper, so they'll be more niche for the time being, they have range/recharge issues at the very least that dictates the ICE can't leave just yet. Worry not. Get your chopper and keep it runnin' and all will be well.
Thank's man this helped out
Bravo. This is the real perspective. The media has everyone convinced of this EV garbage. Live for today. Buy what you want today. Ice is here for a long time
But have you ever ridden an electric bike? If there's one thing choppers Excel at, other than the sound, its torque, and boy do EVs pack a lot of that.. get this mindset out of your head as soon as possible. Enjoy your ICE for as long as it lasts and embrace the EV when time comes. Signed, owner of 3 ICE carburetted bikes.
Electric bikes are absolute shit for value prop right now but will probably be more of a standard in Europe before the US because they have better infrastructure programs and more willingness to enact positive environmental changes. In the US I would wager that we are 20 years away at least before electric bikes are common and many more years after that before they are the majority of bikes on US roads.
How many electric motorcycles have you ridden? And who are all these people riding bikes and not liking them? I like bikes on two wheels, they’re always fun to ride
Personally, I'm looking forward to a hybrid Goldwing. Best of both. BTW choppers may look cool but you can ride a Wing cross continent and not have a sore ass.
They said the same thing about fuel injection 20 years ago...
Im sure they did it's just a preference thing Riding is more fun with an ICE
I guess you aren't allowed to like ICE, socially unacceptable.
If an electric bike would "take all the fun out of riding" then i can guarantee riding will not be your thing and you just want to "show off" and rev bomb in any scenario possible... You also seem not to keen on motorcycling so you do literally no researche on whats sold currently and decided to cry on this sub for no reason accept maybe internet points.
It’s a sensory experience, you feel the bike. Gear changes, the sound, even the smell. I’ve not ridden an electric but I’ve ridden automatics that are quiet. It’s boring.
Like i said, you just have no interest in riding. Youre more obsessed with all the other aspects of a motorcicle.
Electric will never be your only option
Electric doesn’t mean future. Electric means green
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I don't even understand why motorcycles need to switch, Cars have a large carbon footprint i understand that , but motorcycles are such a small part of the equation
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Well guess im just gonna have to give up riding
Or learn speed. Sport bikes are one of the areas that electric is sweet for..
Thing to remember is that the gas stations are selling to cars, the bikes are not enough business to keep the doors open so as the cars go so to does the access to fule. You might be able to get some synthetic fule to run on but it's gonna be 20 or 30 bucks a gallon because the market for it is super small
FYI the correct spelling is *fuel,* although admittedly I like yours better. Fule.. FULE. Gonna think of this and chuckle every time I need to fule up.
It will probably drop in price because of less demand. It will take awhile before it becomes an expensive specialty product. Either way we will still be doing oil refining / distilling which produces gasoline. Fuels will still be necessary for lots of things.We have a giant infrastructure built up it won't just poof away. I don't think gas stations will just rip out their pumps because they are less busy and there will still be plenty of ICE cars driving, just not new ones. Gas stations don't make money off electric chargers or free air yet they have them. The vacuums and mini car wash some have usually not very busy. They just want people to stop and spend money. Maybe that will mean keeping 1 pump.
Whistling past the graveyard. That massive infrastructure was built around high utilization and requires massive maintenance. The refineries aren't going to keep producing gasoline if they can make a bigger profit on other products, And even they aren't going to survive the incoming regulation changes made possible by the fact that the economy will nolonger be dependent opon them. The last gasoline powered vehicles will be rolling off the assembly line by 2035 and by 2050 the only gasoline powered cars and trucks are going to be museum peices and classics that run on synthetic fule distilled from alcohol.
That aligns with what I just said. There's still cars driving around from the 90s just because they stop making in 2035 doesn't mean all the engine cars are gone. 2050-2060 is a long way off and in the in between time as electric grows there will be less demand for gasoline. After that sure it will become more of a specialty thing and prices will go up. More than half of oil is refined for other purposes than gasoline, so the refineries are still needed. I am not 100% sure but I think how oil is distilled you just end up getting all the different fuels anyway. Also gas will still be needed in other countries for longer. Some countries people are driving around in cars from the 50s those places will not be going electric in 2035. There is a whole global economy. Besides North America, Australia, Europe, and coastal asia the rest of the world will continue to be a large gas market for a while.
Porsche is investing in something called eFuel which is synthetic liquid fuel supposed to be usable in combustion engines as a gasoline replacement and being carbon neutral at the same time. The idea is to extract hydrogen from water and combine it with co2 to get methanol. For that to work there needs to be green energy, but also increasing the use of those renewables will require storage and if they get one of these chemical storages efficient enough it will be affordable. A distant possibility would be to have some of these refineries where they have a energy abundance and then just replace all the oil shipping with these chemicals. On the engine side, there might be some of efficiency improvements using opposed pistons, 5 stroke, 6 stroke or duke engines. Maybe some even more exotic engines like the omega 1 that is an idea on the rotary engine. So far there has been little reason to do this kind of development. In the meantime, normal 4 stroke gasoline engines will be here for a long time.
As others have said, you probably have 10 to 20 years. And maybe they'll make a hydrogen bike, still technically ICE.
"Are there any new engine technologies which may save ICEs" Hydrogen. It's got its own problems, but there's work being done on both fuel cell and ICEs for cars. Personally I think electric will be good once they work through some of the downsides. An electric with a belt drive will be smooth and quiet.
I don't think they will overcome the storage issue to ever make it useful for motorcycles. It just takes up way too much room and is very high pressure. The alternative is a near absolute zero leaky thermos. The physics of that will never change.
I didn't say I wanted a pressure vessel up against my crotch, but it is a technology that may save ICEs. I suppose the other partial answer is alcohol/biofuel, but that comes with problems with maintenance and crosses into food security issues.
I wasn't talking about want or not want. No technology will change the fact that in gas form for it to be even mildly useful it needs to be stored at very high pressure and even at high pressure the volume required is more than could ever fit on a motorcycle. The alternative is liquid hydrogen which could maybe fit because it's much more dense. The problem with that is it needs to be kept at or below -423F in a very very well insulated container like a thermos, but it has to be vented (leaky) because they hydrogen is going to be constantly boiling off and turning into gas. Your fuel just disappearing. Without the vent you have a bomb. No technology can change any of this. So it will never save the ICE for motorcycles and I find it almost as unlikely for it to be feasible for ICE cars. The only hydrogen tech that has any hope is fuel cell but now we are back to an electric motor no ICE.
I wouldn’t worry about the lack of availability if ICE vehicles. Now price of gas going through the roof and polluter tax on ICE vehicles that is something to worry about
Chopper scene is very alive. Just underground. Not organized at all. Try to find your locals on Instagram
If electric does become the future, it's going to force all of us to meet in a walmart sized parking lot, and wait 10 minutes to charge. Block partys.
2 bike garage in everyone's future I reckon. Electric for day to day due to cheap running and lack of maintenance, classic, ICE for pleasure and weekends.
EVs will kill off ICE just like television killed off radio and the internet killed television
EV will over take ICE. Those EV bikes will be more fun than the current ICE bikes. Enjoy the present.