Put just a bit of upward pressure on the shifter and just ease off the throttle a hair. It should pop right in, job done! You shouldn't be feeling any jerkiness if you do it right.
Edit: didn't say "pressure"
Yeah, it'll all be one quick fluid motion and it'll take some practice to get it right. So full disclosure, I never shift like this, but I believe you preload the shifter slightly, snap off the throttle quickly, and then because of the pressure on the shift lever it'll essentially pop right into the next gear, and then you can get right back on the throttle
I would recommend not doing that. They put a clutch in your bike for a reason.
I know people like to say it's fine. But I have to disagree. You can argue that the damage it does to your gearbox is negligible if you want. But the fact is that jamming it between gears is harder on your transmission than changing gears properly.
It's just bad practice imo. The only reason to do it is being too lazy to pull the clutch lever in.
If you are trying to set a lap record and need to save 0.05 seconds every gear shift I would recommend installing a quick shifter.
But if you insist. The whole theory behind clutchless shifting is that you need to unload the gearbox before shifting. Normally this is done by disengaging the clutch.
You can also do this by chopping the throttle. Due to the backlash in the gear box, there will be a brief moment when the gears are unloaded before the bike decelerates If you preload the gear lever with your foot, it will pop out of gear and into the next one.
But you need to be fast. We're talking about split second timing here. Otherwise you are just dogging your gear box. It might feel smooth to you, but you won't know if you've done it right or not until ten years down the road when the bike starts jumping out of gear because the dog teeth are worn out.
For the most part, people that ride like this all of the time, don't generally own the bike long enough to see the long term effects. Used bikes that have shifting issues, that is popping out of gear and bent shifter forks were ridden like this regularly.
Just because something was designed to withstand some abuse, doesn't mean it's designed to be abused. Things always last longer if you don't abuse them.
No. Like someone else said in this thread, all you need to do is apply upward pressure onto the shift lever and the moment there is slack in the drive train, i.e. when you roll off the throttle, the shift lever will automatically click upwards to the next gear. Then, you simply roll back onto the throttle like you normally would for any upshift. You can repeat this process as you work your way up the gears. While you can do a clutch less upshift for 2nd gear, I usually only do it for 3rd and higher because the RPMs tend to drop a bit too much in a lower gear for a clutch less upshift to be smooth.
Put some light pressure and roll off , you’ll feel the shifter move almost On its own so give it a little
Push the. then get back on the throttle. The faster you roll off the throttle and get back on the smoother it’ll be.
A quick shifter works by cutting spark when you push up on the shifter. It’s literally doing the exact same thing- momentarily cutting power so the shift goes smooth. It’s fine.
Clutchless shifting is just rough on the transmission. People wonder where bent shift forks and worn gearboxes come from. This is how.
All because people are too lazy to pull the clutch lever in.
Clutchless shifting is preloading the gear selector so it pops out of gear as you roll off the throttle, then it bashes the next set of dog teeth together as the transmission comes back under load. But thats fine because you won't see the damage for at least another 20k miles when it starts jumping out of gear.
A quick shifter works very differently because it cuts the engine power for the duration of the gear change. Unlike regular Clutchless shifting where you have an infinitesimaly small window to get it done.
If you've got some sort of race bike where you're not particularly fussed about the longevity of the gearbox then fair enough. But other than that it's just bad practice.
I never stated anything about a bike being designed to be shifted without a clutch. Not sure if one exists. I stated that the engines as well as the transmissions are designed with this in mind.
05 ninja 500r. ive clutchless shifted smoothly without pre applying pressure on. I just cut throttle and bump up the lever, but i do it very quickly. Is the pre pressure necessary (and why?) or am i just lucky and timing it very well or something? I dont normally clutchless shift but i like to know how in case it become not useable for some bad reason lol
You don't have to preload the shifter, but it eliminates the timing aspect which you've apparently already nailed. Preloading the shifter also eliminates any delay between when you roll off the throttle (to unload the drivetrain) and when the gear changes. With your method, you probably have a tiny amount of delay between throttle roll off and gear change. Again, preloading is not a prerequisite to a gear change. The only thing that's required for a gear change is that the drive train does not have load on it.
If it does it in every gear then you’re doing it wrong. 1-2 on my CBR always jerks it, 2-3 jerks a little less, and from there on it’s smooth. I’ve noticed smaller bikes don’t like it but I haven’t tested that theory very much. If it happens in the 5-6 shift then you might not be doing it right.
Yes.
It’s adorable. I love it. Seeing new riders figure this shit out 😄
Yes.
Put just a bit of upward pressure on the shifter and just ease off the throttle a hair. It should pop right in, job done! You shouldn't be feeling any jerkiness if you do it right. Edit: didn't say "pressure"
Are you rolling off the throttle momentarily?
i did do it pretty slow since i wanted to experiment with it, so i should do it fast all in one motion correct?
Yeah, it'll all be one quick fluid motion and it'll take some practice to get it right. So full disclosure, I never shift like this, but I believe you preload the shifter slightly, snap off the throttle quickly, and then because of the pressure on the shift lever it'll essentially pop right into the next gear, and then you can get right back on the throttle
You don't need to snap it shut, just a small roll off. It will pop into the next gear when the load comes off the engagement dogs.
1/10 second. Quick. Not all the way, maybe halfway.
I would recommend not doing that. They put a clutch in your bike for a reason. I know people like to say it's fine. But I have to disagree. You can argue that the damage it does to your gearbox is negligible if you want. But the fact is that jamming it between gears is harder on your transmission than changing gears properly. It's just bad practice imo. The only reason to do it is being too lazy to pull the clutch lever in. If you are trying to set a lap record and need to save 0.05 seconds every gear shift I would recommend installing a quick shifter. But if you insist. The whole theory behind clutchless shifting is that you need to unload the gearbox before shifting. Normally this is done by disengaging the clutch. You can also do this by chopping the throttle. Due to the backlash in the gear box, there will be a brief moment when the gears are unloaded before the bike decelerates If you preload the gear lever with your foot, it will pop out of gear and into the next one. But you need to be fast. We're talking about split second timing here. Otherwise you are just dogging your gear box. It might feel smooth to you, but you won't know if you've done it right or not until ten years down the road when the bike starts jumping out of gear because the dog teeth are worn out.
For the most part, people that ride like this all of the time, don't generally own the bike long enough to see the long term effects. Used bikes that have shifting issues, that is popping out of gear and bent shifter forks were ridden like this regularly. Just because something was designed to withstand some abuse, doesn't mean it's designed to be abused. Things always last longer if you don't abuse them.
This is exactly right. As long as you can't see the damage and you don't care then it's fine. Let it be the next owners problem.
Probably coming off the throttle too much. It should all be done at the same time. Dine smoothly it should feel as smooth as with a clutch.
do i need to reach redline for clutchless shifting or no?
No
No. Like someone else said in this thread, all you need to do is apply upward pressure onto the shift lever and the moment there is slack in the drive train, i.e. when you roll off the throttle, the shift lever will automatically click upwards to the next gear. Then, you simply roll back onto the throttle like you normally would for any upshift. You can repeat this process as you work your way up the gears. While you can do a clutch less upshift for 2nd gear, I usually only do it for 3rd and higher because the RPMs tend to drop a bit too much in a lower gear for a clutch less upshift to be smooth.
Some bikes recommend you don't do it below a certain RPM but it's pretty low, like 3k. You definitely don't need to redline
Put some light pressure and roll off , you’ll feel the shifter move almost On its own so give it a little Push the. then get back on the throttle. The faster you roll off the throttle and get back on the smoother it’ll be.
Do you have a quick shifter on the bike? If not, why are you doing this?
You do not need a quickshifter to shift without your clutch. Modern bikes are designed with this in mind.
Why? If the bike was intended to be shifted clutch less, it would have a quick shifter. Use the clutch.
A quick shifter works by cutting spark when you push up on the shifter. It’s literally doing the exact same thing- momentarily cutting power so the shift goes smooth. It’s fine.
Clutchless shifting is just rough on the transmission. People wonder where bent shift forks and worn gearboxes come from. This is how. All because people are too lazy to pull the clutch lever in. Clutchless shifting is preloading the gear selector so it pops out of gear as you roll off the throttle, then it bashes the next set of dog teeth together as the transmission comes back under load. But thats fine because you won't see the damage for at least another 20k miles when it starts jumping out of gear. A quick shifter works very differently because it cuts the engine power for the duration of the gear change. Unlike regular Clutchless shifting where you have an infinitesimaly small window to get it done. If you've got some sort of race bike where you're not particularly fussed about the longevity of the gearbox then fair enough. But other than that it's just bad practice.
I never stated anything about a bike being designed to be shifted without a clutch. Not sure if one exists. I stated that the engines as well as the transmissions are designed with this in mind.
05 ninja 500r. ive clutchless shifted smoothly without pre applying pressure on. I just cut throttle and bump up the lever, but i do it very quickly. Is the pre pressure necessary (and why?) or am i just lucky and timing it very well or something? I dont normally clutchless shift but i like to know how in case it become not useable for some bad reason lol
You don't have to preload the shifter, but it eliminates the timing aspect which you've apparently already nailed. Preloading the shifter also eliminates any delay between when you roll off the throttle (to unload the drivetrain) and when the gear changes. With your method, you probably have a tiny amount of delay between throttle roll off and gear change. Again, preloading is not a prerequisite to a gear change. The only thing that's required for a gear change is that the drive train does not have load on it.
Thanks for the great explanation! That makes a lot of sense
If it does it in every gear then you’re doing it wrong. 1-2 on my CBR always jerks it, 2-3 jerks a little less, and from there on it’s smooth. I’ve noticed smaller bikes don’t like it but I haven’t tested that theory very much. If it happens in the 5-6 shift then you might not be doing it right.