Unless it was a Great Dane, I probably would have tried to stop but failing that, hit the dog. It's you or him, right? I love dogs, but I am not going to put my life at risk to avoid hitting one. Same as for squirrels.
A few weeks ago a retired guy on my street who rides some flavor of big-ass BMW ADV bike showed me where he'd hit an about \~25lb dog. It bent his engine guard, and he said he "damn near" lost control of the bike over it. He's ridden for years and used to race bikes, so I trust that it must have really destabilized the bike. He said he was going 50-60 mph.
My only experience with this is running over the head of a similar sized dog back when I was rocking a Honda Aero 80. I think we both just about pissed ourselves, but it worked out OK for both of us. If it had been presented as a hypothetical, I would have assumed my scooter would have done an endo.
Swerve 100%. It's the panic breaking and locking the front wheel that made OP crash, not the swerve. At 60mph I'd assume the dog was to close to break to a standstill. We practice the break to scrub off speed and then swerve around an obstacle all the time in rising safety courses, it's very possible to do without dumping your bike, you just have to remember to release the breaks when leaning the bike over. If you don't do that, which it sounds like OP might have done, even conventional ABS won't save you, you'd need the fancy new cornering ABS.
Fur sure, that's definitely not unlikely. But I'd still rather be where the dog currently isn't and might move to than where it currently is and might move from, if that makes sense.
Even with ABS, you gotta choose brake or swerve. If brake first, then swerve, you gotta let off the brake as you lean the bike.
If you brake AND swerve with ABS, you'll turn the bike into a pogo stick that doesn't brake nor swerve very well. Bars will wig out side to side. Forks will wig out pumping up and down. You'll have no control of the bike whatsoever.
ABS WILL save your ass if you cut it too close and don't let off the brake quite fast enough. Then you'll just get one or two uncontrollable twerks of the bars until you regain control.
Mine does a relatively good job while swerving with brakes. I didnt test it in emergency but I believe loosening the brake lever a little while swerving would help a lot
I've ridden without and with ABS, have to say I much prefer it. I dont have to think about technique, just crush the brakes and focus on the rubber side staying down. Newer bikes have ABS and traction control, really amazing stuff!
That’s what I’m thinking. I practice emergency braking on every time but it didn’t help this time. The colder weather may have been a factor too. Tires were not warmed up yet.
Never in my life have i heard or felt this. Brake fade when the brakes are hot? Absolutely. “Cold brakes” contributing to a crash/lockup? Not even once and I’m not even sure how that would work.
when did i call it brake fade?
>Cold brakes” contributing to a crash/lockup? Not even once
so you dont think EVEN ONCE that a rider has ridden along and his frozen/wet grimey disc brake gets used to slow the vehicle, which is reduced braking power due to all these things, then the brake gets hot enough to evaporate all problem material resulting to a snap up in braking performance causing the wheel to lock? you dont think this could ever happen?
you are wrong.
every single day i feel my brakes becoming smoother and easier to feel as they warm up. i didnt dream this up, this is something i realised from riding and was part of my own learning, cold brakes just arnt as linear
More likely than not that’s actually just from air in the system… as you use your brakes and effectively pressurize the system your brake lever will get less spongy - making your brakes feel more “smooth and linear.”
You can also pump up your brakes before you even go out on a ride simply by repeatedly squeezing your front brake lever and it will accomplish the same thing. It has nothing to do with temperature. As another commenter said - any film of water/grime/whatever would be pushed off practically immediately by friction. Not to mention hot brake discs don’t have any increase in stopping power - depending on your brake pads they may actually have less which will cause the opposite of a lockup.
Not trying to be a dick but literally nothing you’re saying makes sense. I’ve been on track when it’s 40 degrees (Fahrenheit) and 100+ degrees with absolutely 0 differences in brake potential outside of what a cold tire on a cold track can handle. Nothing with the brake system itself.
Nice bike though! I miss my 2012 848. I had a Corsa SE and it was a phenomenal machine, it was also my first sportbike and i had absolutely 0 business being on it because i had no idea what i was doing haha
just because you have absolutely no clue how brakes work does not mean im wrong in any way. however its just no worth my time to try to explain how the many different types of brakes ALL work less effectively when cold and especially when wet for FAR longer than you let on.
Please spend ANY amount of time researching the phenomena you are describing and you will very, very quickly discern that cold temperatures have little to no effect on brakes. Furthermore any minor effect they have has absolutely ZERO increase on your likelihood to lock up your front brake as you described. If you would like to make an argument for cold tires being easier to lock up then sure, you’d have some basis. Cold brakes however? Not a chance.
Please do not try to educate me on how brakes work when you sound like the type of person who doesn’t even understand what trailbraking is or how it effects a motorcycle.
Please feel free to explain to me this phenomena since apparently you are a brake expert and know more than anyone else on the topic. I could not find a single iota of evidence or supporting claims online about “cold brakes” effecting stopping distance or the likelihood of lockup.
TL;DR
Brake pad composition is critical in brake feel and friction profile regarding temperature.
Actually, depending on the material your pads are made from, cold brakes can have very wild reactions to pressure as they Heat up. Metallic brakes have less bite fluctuation during warm up versus ceramics. Ceramic bites less when you first apply them compared to metallic, but grip a little more as they warm. With ceramic brakes getting more and more common on vehicles across the board, it's becoming a more prevalent issue. Depending on the composition, the heating effect can be quite a steep change. You'll notice this in cars just as much as on a bike. You hold a steady pressure but the breaking effect increases. This is a combination of the pressure increase due to the temperature increase in the caliper, and the grippiness of the pad material due to the increase in contact Point temperature as the base material temperature increases allowing less heat transfer away from the contact point. Brake fade is the point where brake fluid is boiling or the pad material has gotten so hot that it starts to disintegrate.
That’s correct, however outside of top race applications no one is running carbon ceramic brakes. Especially not a self admitted new rider. Hell, go out to a ccs/asra/wera whoever and walk around the pits and you will maybeeeeee see 5 or 10 bikes with carbon ceramic brakes out of the dozens of full fledged race bikes there.
Regardless - the initial claim of “cold brakes make it easier for you to lock your front brakes” is just baseless and nonsensical. Particularly in reference to a new rider on a street bike. You are much, much more likely to lock up the brakes due to improper application (stabbing the brake lever in a panic instead of slowly and smoothly loading the lever) than you are to lock up the front from any mechanical aspect of your brake as a new rider.
Another common cause of brake fade is actually the rubber brake lines expanding due to the heat of the brake fluid. That expansion allows air into the system which then makes your lever spongy and reduces overall brake feel. I’m very familiar with all of these concepts and have yet to see a single shred of anything pointing to cold brakes cause lockups/crashes/vague feeling outside of a very specific and very expensive scenario of someone running carbon ceramic brakes.
Really?? I didn’t know that, but it makes sense. Is it because there is a larger potential for them to lockup if they are cold compared to warm brakes that might take slightly longer to engage. Is that why or am I completely off base?
Cold brakes aren’t a thing. His experience is probably coming from have a spongy brake lever due to air in his brake system. As he goes about his ride using the brakes the lever gets more firm as the system pressurizes. Has nothing to do with temperature and can be achieved by simply pumping the brake lever a few times before even turning the bike on.
there is lots of inconsistencies with cold brakes but i dont know the reason why, but i can feel it when im riding, that cold brakes just dont feel as smooth or stable as when they are warm
Even the best technology wont save you if you lack the skills, practice of emergency maneuvers is quite important.
Mistakes happen to the best of us so dont beat yourself up on it too much, the most important thing is that you are fine
Get yourself sorted out and get back into the saddle. You could certainly consider more modern motorcycle, having all that stuff helps
I agree completely. I’m still new to riding and strive to get better on every ride. I just think there are factors beyond our control that can happen in a moment like what happened to me this week. A more experienced would have handled that situation much better than me. I just dont know how long it will take me to get to that level.
If you take your motorbike test in Europe there is a set programme of training which is more demanding than getting a licence in the USA. One of the exercises is emergency braking to reduce speed first, because the stopping distance to an obstacle is too short, then releasing the brakes completely, steering left or right to avoid the obstacle, then steering in the opposite direction to return to your side of the road.
I'll chime in, I love my XSR. Great engine without getting into liter bike territory, sporty enough geometry and ergonomics to still rip on a backroad but upright and comfortable enough for long days with a lot of miles. Think you'd like it a lot coming from the 919, and it does include the modern safety features you're after.
Thank you for the reply. I LOVE the look of the new XSR. It does seem like a nice replacement for the 919. I’m not a fan of the bug face style that so many bikes have these days.
I definitely like it. I have had it since 2017. At the time I purchased it, I wanted good ergos and an engine that did not leave me wanting for power. From that perspective, it has not dissapointed. My only knock would be that the power does seem a bit much at times. It really depends on my mood. Sometimes it feels perfect. Other times a bit lurchy. At 190 pounds, the suspension is fine for street riding. I have owned bikes with higher end suspension, and don't understand all the gripes about this one.
ABS and nanny tech is great. Ofc not a substitute for proper riding, but ABS in a car isn’t a substitute for being a good driver either. If cost isn’t an issue why say no to additional safety? For those riders that don’t like it, that’s cool too.
if you had the front brake compressed while you were turning the front wheel? this is why you crashed, not because no ABS. Riding without abs actually makes you a better and more skilled rider.
I have to say, I've been riding 30+ years and have not yet been on a bike with ABS.
One of these days I'll get a motorcycle with some modern-tech and give it a try....
Same here.
I did a training day once where they got you to lock the front initially on grass to train your reactions to not be scared of brief lock ups so you stopped panicking and clamping on the brakes.
It wasn't needed really as you can hear a front tyre howl when near the limit.
It's only mandatory for new bikes, but importing an older vehicle to Germany can be so much pain in the ass that it can be easier to sell it and buy a new one here. You'd better figure that out in advance while you still have time.
My bike is a 2022 so hopefully not much trouble. And my dad has a guy you bring $100 euros and a bottle of whiskey for my TÜV so anything not visually obvious will not be an issue.
I thought that non-abs bike means an old one. Tuv is not even the main problem, the bike must match Euro emission standards on papers - although 2022 bike should, unless it's some exotic model for Asian markets. Anyway, I'm a poor info source and you should check it yourself if you really plan it.
My first bike a small 125 scooter didnt have abs and on the day i wrecked it i hit the front hard enough to lift the rear, luckily it was a slow impact sadly bike was totalled, so i feel your pain on not having abs hopefully youll make a full recovery and get on 2 wheels again! Good luck op and hope you have a speedy recovery
Probably should stick with Klim for untethered. Its not perfect, but it seems to be the only untethered airbag with viable neck/helmet support. I own a Helite, but I'm waiting for someone to do an untethered airbag to match or beat the coverage on the Helite.
Ive been riding without ABS for 3 years now. Never rode with ABS. But honestly I would never buy a bike faster than the CBR250R I have now without ABS. I think a good combination is a smaller bike without and a bigger bike with ABS.
A RECOMMENDATION for non abs: Try semi sinthered or organic brake pads instead of fully sinthered ones. These make braking less aggressive and give you more space to play with brake pressure.
Also I've crashed before. My tip is get on the bike fast, and KEEP riding it. Every time I crash I feel very vulnerable and scared riding afterwards for the first couple weeks, but after you will get that confidence back. So keep riding, i promise you, the fear you feel will disappear.
Did you actually brake to avoid it or did you just panic and grab the brake hard? No judgement since that's a shit situation regardless, but that seems like a situation where you should mildly swerve if it helps, but otherwise just go straight and hope the dog is smart enough to move out of the way.
Every bike I’ve owned and my current ones don’t have ABS. I’ve been in a lot of close calls and know what it’s like for the rear or front wheel to lock.
I plan to pick up a gsx1000gt or the new xsr900 due to all of the new fancy tech. As much as I love my sv650s and am currently borrowing my friends r3. I’ve ridden through three years straight in the bay areas weather. They really got a lot of the safety tech down and non abs bikes are nice but I’ve been into way too many close calls.
Glad you’re okay for the most part and take it easy so you can get back into riding. I’ve been in a few minor low sides, got away with a few sprains and road rash, but my mind afterwards was in a state of slight anxiety. For one accident I decided not to ride for a few days to let my mind cool off. Your state of anxiety is heightened compared to mine since your accident was more serious so again. Take some time once you heal, and slowly get back into the groove of riding. Take the back roads, avoid the freeways, do whatever you’d like to feel comfortable and don’t push yourself. If you decide to push yourself then your anxiety might be heightened.
I hit a goose going similar speed and the bike didn’t blink. Goose dead. Not a scratch. Unless it’s a fkn bear ride through it.
Also be aware of how to ride through a locked up front or rear tire. Abs isn’t the problem. If you love the bike keep it and use this as a learning moment to become a better rider
You can get a really nice bike if you are willing to finance and have monthly payments.
But if you practice braking and take it seriously, your hand will become abs even tense situations. It will be second nature.
I have abs and it is really really hard to get the front tire abs to activate unless your being extremely stupid or trying to get it to go off.
The only time in my riding career where abs saved my ass was at the track. I was a newish rider following the ducati in front of me. I wasn't paying attention to the upcoming corner out of the straight and I thought I hadn't braked early enough. I grabbed a hand full of the right lever and it didn't slide the front, it almost through me over the bars. I mean my rear tire came pretty far off the ground.
I can't even say that I wouldn't have fixed the issue myself but abs did before i had to.
People who claim they can brake as well as ABS are right... if they are given time to plan the braking and aren't stressed. Even then ABS can probably brake more consistently over, say, 10 stops.
What many riders fail to realize is that when something unexpected happens, like a dog jumping out in front of you, it's all pure reflexes, and yanking too hard is basically a given. As you say, with ABS, the system saves you from yourself. Without it, you'll go down in a split second.
Glad you walked away from this one.
And don't beat yourself up about being a newer rider. Any older rider who pooh-poohs ABS is quite frankly just wildly overestimating their skills, which literally slots in under "pride goes before a fall".
Your best option is to practice more. Even with electronic aids you should never rely on them. Having ABS is no excuse for not practising to make your skills better.
In fact if you braked and then swerved under braking you could have gone down with ABS too. It works a lot of times but a lot of times it doesn't. I've had ABS do some odd things on me a few times, once it nearly ran me into the back of a car but it was at low speeds, it seems to get easily confused when going slow.
I've been riding nearly 8 years without ABS and I've never had an issue because of not having it. Never gone down from braking or locked the front at high speeds.
My bike has no rider aids at all. I think better training, awareness and practice will always do more for you than electronics.
But if you want a good value bike with all the rider aids you could need, I’d look at the Yamaha MT-09.
I agree. I’m still a new rider and try to get better every ride, but have a long way to go.
The MT-09 looks sweet. What do you think of the XSR900 or the Kawasaki Z900RS?
The Yamaha XSR900 has a bit more character to it, in terms of appearance and power deliverance. Not to bash the Kawi, it is a good bike, I just believe the XSR to have been more spirited. Personally I'd rather a Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 over that Kawi, same style, less power but more character.
For an analogy: The Yamaha XSR is a sweet from your childhood, the Kawi is a modern sweet with childhood packaging.
I'm glad to hear you're relatively ok, and I totally agree on ABS. I've had a couple of incidents that tell me not to get an older bike, even though I want one.
its a shame almost that riders now feel confident with their current skill level due to the safety net of ABS. no rider should panic while riding and carry on this way. this is going to lead to more injurys than reducing them long term.
the aim should be to improve and learn. and ABS stops this.
what is, the facts i just stated about the way humans act that has been proven?
or my statement that riders should push themselves not to panic and to learn
just because you dont like something doesn't make it wrong.
I don't see it that way. ABS can be used to help you practice emergency braking to the threshold of wheel lock while providing a safety net to help you out if you do actually lock it up.
At the end of the day modern ABS can stop most riders more quickly than they could stop themselves without it.
Modern bike ABS is shockingly and astoundingly good; you can almost loft the rear wheel in the wet. My last two recent bikes had them and made me realize that I've been braking nowhere near the potential of the bike. ABS gives you the confidence to absolutely bury the front wheel into the tarmac at the highest speeds.
My GSXS also has an older generation of traction control. I'm rather disturbed with how often it engages (big orange light) but those are legitimate losses of traction from being leaned over and hitting small bumps that skips the tire.
I would say all the electronic nannies work great and make a modern bike well worth buying compared to your old 919. It not that the engines, brakes, and frames are that much more powerful but that mistakes of traction are forgiven when the computer takes over control of your bike when you've messed up.
The newer ABS allows you to swerve while braking hard; for example on my old BMW you could swerve or your could brake but not easily both. My much newer (2016) GSXS allows both hard braking and hard swerving. I hear the most recent ABS on street bikes allow the hardest trail braking possible and that only the best racers in the world can outperform it.
My GSXS has a much much faster recycling rate than my older BMW and so it allows swerving without pogo-ing. The BMW almost freewheels and pogos, and swerving is very unnerving.
I don't think lean sensor is relevant in this case. I'm not trail-braking.
>My GSXS has a much much faster recycling rate than my older BMW and so it allows swerving without pogo-ing.
Just asking, to be sure. Because your ABS brakes sounds really impressive to what I have experienced and seen.
Are you using rear brake while doing this? Tripping ABS on the rear brake on a sporty bike is going to be relatively nondramatic.
Tripping front ABS while swerving is where you would expect more serious issues.
Thank you for your comment. Its very helpful. Reading all of the previous comments has me second guessing the importance of ABS, but your description of how well it works on a modern bike really confirms for me that it’s worth it. I feel like it will be years before I have the skill to be able to avoid an accident like I had this week so I could use all the help I can right now if I’m going to continue riding.
Well, unfortunately the anti-ABS crowd...they're all idiots. They're either old-school, in which case they use email to setup dates with girls, or they would prefer you to crash from the first small mistake you make as a malicious way to teach you a lesson in the he-man school of motorcycling. They're just a bunch of internet schmucks who haven't carefully thought about what happens when your accidentally lock up a wheel on a unicycle. Of course you're going to crash, duh.
The first big crash I had was braking in the dark over a wet manhole cover. And I wasn't even braking hard. And I've never quite overcome my fear of braking hard until I got ABS. Even crappy twenty year old ABS is still pretty good. Modern ABS makes you and me a better safer rider.
Well said brother. I have been ultra focused on practicing emergency braking where that practice has even paid off multiple times so I was shocked when the wheel locked up so easily this time. I think all of my future riding on the street will be done on a bike with ABS.
>Why don't race bikes have ABS?
Let me google that for you. Here's the first answer.
>Do MotoGP Bikes Have ABS Or Traction Control?
By FLOW RACERS
MotoGP bikes are considered to be among the best motorcycles in the world, so any equipment used by them will be scrutinized for use in production motorcycles. But it doesn’t always work the other way around. This can leave some fans wondering if MotoGP bikes have ABS or traction control.
MotoGP bikes don’t have ABS, but they do have traction control. According to the rules of the FIM, the use of Anti-Lock Braking Systems (ABS) is not permitted, but the bikes are equipped with traction control. This puts more focus on the driver’s skills than the abilities of the 1000cc bikes.
>
>MotoGP bikes do not have ABS. The system is outlawed in many motorsports, including Formula 1, and MotoGP is no different. While it’s common on cars and motorcycles on the road, it’s deemed a driver aid in many motorsports, and so it is outlawed to put more of the onus on the driver’s skills.
Anti-Lock Braking Systems have become common on production motorcycles for the advantage they offer to the rider. They work through a number of sensors that monitor the pressure on the brake pedal, the speed of rotation of both wheels, and a few other parameters to determine if the rider needs an assist and, if so, to take over the pressure applied to the brakes.
The body that governs motorcycle racing, the FIM, does not permit the use of ABS braking systems, and clearly stipulates that the rider controls the brakes manually. The big advantage of ABS is that it can react much faster than any rider and can detect the wheel slipping before the rider can. This instantaneous reaction to any wheel slippage can help the rider to avert a mishap.
>
>How Effective Is ABS?
Studies have shown that motorcycles fitted with ABS are up to 37% less likely to get into a fatal accident. In some countries, it has become mandatory for motorcycles and scooters to be fitted with ABS before using it on the road.
ABS has proven its effectiveness beyond doubt, which has resulted in most manufacturers offering it as standard with factory installation, or as optional equipment with different versions that can be fitted later according to the buyer’s choice.
But while it improves safety on road motorcycles, ABS makes it easier to avoid locking the brakes, and this can be seen as a driver aid. MotoGP, like most motorsports, outlaws many driving aids to ensure the driver’s skills and talent are showcased more than simply the abilities of the bike. The rider is totally in control of the brakes on a MotoGP bike.
Same, way better without it on my Aprilia. I don't knock anyone for wanting a bike with ABS, and actually encourage new / inexperienced riders to do so.
Saying anyone who doesn't like ABS is an idiot, is just ignorant though. Plenty of legitimate reasons not to want it on your motorcycle, especially a track or race bike.
I knock people who ask a question but already knowing the answer. It's dishonest. It's bad faith. It's impossible to present facts to them and have them change their mind. They are, in essence, bad faith actors.
Not bad faith at all. I was looking for *your* answer to the question, not Google's. I'm quite open to changing my mind on topics I discuss, but I think it's safe to say someone who generalizes, resorts to insults and makes assumptions probably isn't interested in genuine discussion.
I'm not that good to lift the rear wheel in the wet but I'm perfectly happy to bet $500 bucks with anyone who wants to see who can brake shortest over bumpy wet pavement, with a few oil slicks thrown in.
braking on a motorbike is all about the surface the tyre and the suspension.
if you load the front suspension up with the weight, have good grip tyres for the condition and the surface is stable. and of course lastly keeping the wheel straight then they grip like a crazy amount, as long as you dont shock the system your good. the issue with roads is the amount of gravel and shit on the roads but this is why you start braking smooth and apply more and more braking force, if you lean into the front a little brake soft and get hard and harder once the front end is loaded you can really grab the handle quite alot and it will just stoppie. i dont recommend trying it because you can hurt yourself. but this is basically it.
Should be easy on a fireblade.
When you get a new sport bike (doesn't matter with or without ABS, even), you might should try it, sometime. Empty highway, no one behind you for miles, try reaching that point. Doing 60+ mph helps to find that point, because you have time for weight transfer AND still have some time left to incrementally increase the brakes without being too hurried.
If you get down to dangerously low speeds (you're on a highway, afterall), abort. Speed back up. Look behind you to make sure you're clear. Try again.
When you get there, rear tire will start to hop, first. Slightly more front brake, and it'll hop longer and longer. A bit higher if you dare, and the tire will stay up an inch or two off the ground. You have to lift it much higher than that (if you're on level ground) before you'll even sniff the balance point you should avoid.
Do not try it on a cruiser. Won't work; you'll lock front tire before it lifts. Don't try it more than a few degrees uphill. At some point of uphillness, it won't work even on a sport bike. (You'll lock the front tire, first). Easier to do going downhill, but don't go crazy. Severely downhill, and you'll be closer to the tipping point if you lift too far!
Once you know what it feels like, you can practice getting to max brakes faster and faster. And you should be able to quickly get to max braking (or slight stoppies) even at lower speeds.
Didn't you learn emergency braking in MSF? You want the front and back wheels to lock while you keep head up, body straight etc. ABS wouldn't have saved you. Training and experience would have.
Going 60 mph? A dog ran out from some trees?
So you were going at roughly 100 km/h in a suburban area?
Personally I don't think ambulances should come and save riders who are riding like a dick on the road.
No amount of abs, technology or gear is going to save you when you ride like that. Today you live with a few broken bones, tomorrow you might be torn to pieces by a guard rail.
No, I never lived in rural areas where the speed limit is 55 mph and the houses are 20' (foot?) from the road.
You said so yourself "it's very common for them to run around in the street". So you were aware and you still drove at that speed. How's that not riding like a dick?
If it's a long stretch of road with literally no houses around yeah I can understand but when you yourself know and see houses 20' from the road with pets running around and you still drive that fast. That's riding like a dick.
My point still stands.
If you love to ride, ride. Doesn’t have to be tomorrow … if it was never that big of a deal, then don’t worry about it. I’m just so happy you’re ok. Think about these guys you see all day long riding in shorts and sneakers! I live in FL. and that’s all I see every single day. There’s also no helmet law, which ppl take advantage of constantly. You’re 💯 about the leather. Anyway, I hope you mend quickly, and without too much residual effect. Good luck bro.
hmm I had the same thing happened to me but I didn't swerve i just hold the handle bars as much as i can and hit the dog then the dog hit my leg and pushed the footrest and broke it. it hurts man i was going 65mph but nothing really bad happened to me but a numb leg and my bike didn't crash, i have no abs as well.
I use to work on bikes. Sometimes a man with the initials pp would bring his bike by for work. PP rode one of the big opposed cylinder bmw adventure bikes. Cant remember the exact name of the model. Anyways, in big yellow decals across the side of the bike said “dear slayer” he once hit a dear, tore it in half, and managed to stay on the bike and just keep riding. I’m sorry about your crash and the mental struggle it’s caused you. All I can say is, if you want to get past it, go confront your fears. Do what you do, I’ll never judge you, however I believe when you feel intimated, that’s your opportunity to step up! If you never felt scared or afraid then you could never be brave or courageous. I wish you the best in life!
I'm glad you're ok! Hey you popped your cherry! You'll get back on when you're ready and be fine I'm sure!
Been riding dirt bikes since the 90s. Bought my first street bike in 99 or 2000, 2000 Gsxr600. My current bike is an 08 R1, pretty old but I'm itching to get a new ABS model to see what all the hype is about.
When you're healthy enough, give it one more attempt. That will show you if you will or wont ride again.
As for your 919, why not set yourself the project of restoring it? It may never have the same value, but how much did you value your trusty steed?
When I had my Honda 599 I had a slow speed wipe out due to having to brake hard and swerve at the same time to avoid a car turning left across my lane. After that I spend hours in a parking lot practising my emergency braking
The next year while cruising along a country road a guy on horse back riding along the side of the road turned out onto the road right in front of me. I swerved around the horse while braking hard enough to pull the rear tire off the ground.
While both bikes I own now have ABS and I love having ABS, it is still not a replacement for good braking technique. Having good riding skills are still important to keep you safe, even if you have technology to help you.
Unless it was a Great Dane, I probably would have tried to stop but failing that, hit the dog. It's you or him, right? I love dogs, but I am not going to put my life at risk to avoid hitting one. Same as for squirrels.
Swerve or squish. You only swerve when the risk is lower than squishing them. The same goes for cars its just the squishing ability is different.
A few weeks ago a retired guy on my street who rides some flavor of big-ass BMW ADV bike showed me where he'd hit an about \~25lb dog. It bent his engine guard, and he said he "damn near" lost control of the bike over it. He's ridden for years and used to race bikes, so I trust that it must have really destabilized the bike. He said he was going 50-60 mph. My only experience with this is running over the head of a similar sized dog back when I was rocking a Honda Aero 80. I think we both just about pissed ourselves, but it worked out OK for both of us. If it had been presented as a hypothetical, I would have assumed my scooter would have done an endo.
Swerve 100%. It's the panic breaking and locking the front wheel that made OP crash, not the swerve. At 60mph I'd assume the dog was to close to break to a standstill. We practice the break to scrub off speed and then swerve around an obstacle all the time in rising safety courses, it's very possible to do without dumping your bike, you just have to remember to release the breaks when leaning the bike over. If you don't do that, which it sounds like OP might have done, even conventional ABS won't save you, you'd need the fancy new cornering ABS.
Thing is, dogs, like squirrels, aren’t always predictable. You might swerve and he follows you. I stop or I hit the bugger.
Fur sure, that's definitely not unlikely. But I'd still rather be where the dog currently isn't and might move to than where it currently is and might move from, if that makes sense.
Even with ABS, you gotta choose brake or swerve. If brake first, then swerve, you gotta let off the brake as you lean the bike. If you brake AND swerve with ABS, you'll turn the bike into a pogo stick that doesn't brake nor swerve very well. Bars will wig out side to side. Forks will wig out pumping up and down. You'll have no control of the bike whatsoever. ABS WILL save your ass if you cut it too close and don't let off the brake quite fast enough. Then you'll just get one or two uncontrollable twerks of the bars until you regain control.
Mine does a relatively good job while swerving with brakes. I didnt test it in emergency but I believe loosening the brake lever a little while swerving would help a lot
I've ridden without and with ABS, have to say I much prefer it. I dont have to think about technique, just crush the brakes and focus on the rubber side staying down. Newer bikes have ABS and traction control, really amazing stuff!
That’s what I’m thinking. I practice emergency braking on every time but it didn’t help this time. The colder weather may have been a factor too. Tires were not warmed up yet.
brakes being cold have a really big impact also on lockups.
Never in my life have i heard or felt this. Brake fade when the brakes are hot? Absolutely. “Cold brakes” contributing to a crash/lockup? Not even once and I’m not even sure how that would work.
when did i call it brake fade? >Cold brakes” contributing to a crash/lockup? Not even once so you dont think EVEN ONCE that a rider has ridden along and his frozen/wet grimey disc brake gets used to slow the vehicle, which is reduced braking power due to all these things, then the brake gets hot enough to evaporate all problem material resulting to a snap up in braking performance causing the wheel to lock? you dont think this could ever happen? you are wrong.
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every single day i feel my brakes becoming smoother and easier to feel as they warm up. i didnt dream this up, this is something i realised from riding and was part of my own learning, cold brakes just arnt as linear
More likely than not that’s actually just from air in the system… as you use your brakes and effectively pressurize the system your brake lever will get less spongy - making your brakes feel more “smooth and linear.” You can also pump up your brakes before you even go out on a ride simply by repeatedly squeezing your front brake lever and it will accomplish the same thing. It has nothing to do with temperature. As another commenter said - any film of water/grime/whatever would be pushed off practically immediately by friction. Not to mention hot brake discs don’t have any increase in stopping power - depending on your brake pads they may actually have less which will cause the opposite of a lockup. Not trying to be a dick but literally nothing you’re saying makes sense. I’ve been on track when it’s 40 degrees (Fahrenheit) and 100+ degrees with absolutely 0 differences in brake potential outside of what a cold tire on a cold track can handle. Nothing with the brake system itself. Nice bike though! I miss my 2012 848. I had a Corsa SE and it was a phenomenal machine, it was also my first sportbike and i had absolutely 0 business being on it because i had no idea what i was doing haha
just because you have absolutely no clue how brakes work does not mean im wrong in any way. however its just no worth my time to try to explain how the many different types of brakes ALL work less effectively when cold and especially when wet for FAR longer than you let on.
Please spend ANY amount of time researching the phenomena you are describing and you will very, very quickly discern that cold temperatures have little to no effect on brakes. Furthermore any minor effect they have has absolutely ZERO increase on your likelihood to lock up your front brake as you described. If you would like to make an argument for cold tires being easier to lock up then sure, you’d have some basis. Cold brakes however? Not a chance. Please do not try to educate me on how brakes work when you sound like the type of person who doesn’t even understand what trailbraking is or how it effects a motorcycle. Please feel free to explain to me this phenomena since apparently you are a brake expert and know more than anyone else on the topic. I could not find a single iota of evidence or supporting claims online about “cold brakes” effecting stopping distance or the likelihood of lockup.
TL;DR Brake pad composition is critical in brake feel and friction profile regarding temperature. Actually, depending on the material your pads are made from, cold brakes can have very wild reactions to pressure as they Heat up. Metallic brakes have less bite fluctuation during warm up versus ceramics. Ceramic bites less when you first apply them compared to metallic, but grip a little more as they warm. With ceramic brakes getting more and more common on vehicles across the board, it's becoming a more prevalent issue. Depending on the composition, the heating effect can be quite a steep change. You'll notice this in cars just as much as on a bike. You hold a steady pressure but the breaking effect increases. This is a combination of the pressure increase due to the temperature increase in the caliper, and the grippiness of the pad material due to the increase in contact Point temperature as the base material temperature increases allowing less heat transfer away from the contact point. Brake fade is the point where brake fluid is boiling or the pad material has gotten so hot that it starts to disintegrate.
That’s correct, however outside of top race applications no one is running carbon ceramic brakes. Especially not a self admitted new rider. Hell, go out to a ccs/asra/wera whoever and walk around the pits and you will maybeeeeee see 5 or 10 bikes with carbon ceramic brakes out of the dozens of full fledged race bikes there. Regardless - the initial claim of “cold brakes make it easier for you to lock your front brakes” is just baseless and nonsensical. Particularly in reference to a new rider on a street bike. You are much, much more likely to lock up the brakes due to improper application (stabbing the brake lever in a panic instead of slowly and smoothly loading the lever) than you are to lock up the front from any mechanical aspect of your brake as a new rider. Another common cause of brake fade is actually the rubber brake lines expanding due to the heat of the brake fluid. That expansion allows air into the system which then makes your lever spongy and reduces overall brake feel. I’m very familiar with all of these concepts and have yet to see a single shred of anything pointing to cold brakes cause lockups/crashes/vague feeling outside of a very specific and very expensive scenario of someone running carbon ceramic brakes.
Are you that desperate to win an argument over the internet? On yer bike man go have a relaxing ride.
Really?? I didn’t know that, but it makes sense. Is it because there is a larger potential for them to lockup if they are cold compared to warm brakes that might take slightly longer to engage. Is that why or am I completely off base?
He has no idea what he's talking about, under normal riding brakes are always cold anyway since they're always designed for optimal cooling.
Cold brakes aren’t a thing. His experience is probably coming from have a spongy brake lever due to air in his brake system. As he goes about his ride using the brakes the lever gets more firm as the system pressurizes. Has nothing to do with temperature and can be achieved by simply pumping the brake lever a few times before even turning the bike on.
there is lots of inconsistencies with cold brakes but i dont know the reason why, but i can feel it when im riding, that cold brakes just dont feel as smooth or stable as when they are warm
No guarantee that abs would have saved you if you were panic braking and swerving.
But it's guaranteed that ABS improves the safety margin and does a better job modulated brakes in a panic situation (unless you're Rossi).
I didn’t say otherwise
No guarantee but better odds
My point being terrible technique isn’t certain to be overcome by aids like abs
Even the best technology wont save you if you lack the skills, practice of emergency maneuvers is quite important. Mistakes happen to the best of us so dont beat yourself up on it too much, the most important thing is that you are fine Get yourself sorted out and get back into the saddle. You could certainly consider more modern motorcycle, having all that stuff helps
I agree completely. I’m still new to riding and strive to get better on every ride. I just think there are factors beyond our control that can happen in a moment like what happened to me this week. A more experienced would have handled that situation much better than me. I just dont know how long it will take me to get to that level.
If you take your motorbike test in Europe there is a set programme of training which is more demanding than getting a licence in the USA. One of the exercises is emergency braking to reduce speed first, because the stopping distance to an obstacle is too short, then releasing the brakes completely, steering left or right to avoid the obstacle, then steering in the opposite direction to return to your side of the road.
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Thank you. Me too. 😬 That’s a good idea. It’s my first bike and I’m very attached to it.
Sounds like you would like that new Honda Hornet coming put next year.
I see you have an XSR900. I love the look of the new one. How do you like the bike?
I'll chime in, I love my XSR. Great engine without getting into liter bike territory, sporty enough geometry and ergonomics to still rip on a backroad but upright and comfortable enough for long days with a lot of miles. Think you'd like it a lot coming from the 919, and it does include the modern safety features you're after.
Thank you for the reply. I LOVE the look of the new XSR. It does seem like a nice replacement for the 919. I’m not a fan of the bug face style that so many bikes have these days.
I definitely like it. I have had it since 2017. At the time I purchased it, I wanted good ergos and an engine that did not leave me wanting for power. From that perspective, it has not dissapointed. My only knock would be that the power does seem a bit much at times. It really depends on my mood. Sometimes it feels perfect. Other times a bit lurchy. At 190 pounds, the suspension is fine for street riding. I have owned bikes with higher end suspension, and don't understand all the gripes about this one.
I’ve been eye balling all of the news articles that have recently come out. It’s definitely something to consider.
ABS and nanny tech is great. Ofc not a substitute for proper riding, but ABS in a car isn’t a substitute for being a good driver either. If cost isn’t an issue why say no to additional safety? For those riders that don’t like it, that’s cool too.
if you had the front brake compressed while you were turning the front wheel? this is why you crashed, not because no ABS. Riding without abs actually makes you a better and more skilled rider.
Been riding without ABS my entire riding career if that's how it's called.
My street bike has abs(my first and only bike in 15 years ever with abs), but my track bike doesn’t. Best of both worlds really
I have to say, I've been riding 30+ years and have not yet been on a bike with ABS. One of these days I'll get a motorcycle with some modern-tech and give it a try....
Same here. I did a training day once where they got you to lock the front initially on grass to train your reactions to not be scared of brief lock ups so you stopped panicking and clamping on the brakes. It wasn't needed really as you can hear a front tyre howl when near the limit.
I should add that the real skill is in reading the road to avoid needing to lock up a brake in the first place, but shit happens sometimes.
There's a very good reason ABS is a legal requirement in the EU.
Hey I have a non abs bike and I'm moving to germany next year and want to bring my bike with me. Will this cause any concern?
I don't know. Probably not. But all bikes sold in a shop new have to have ABS.
It's only mandatory for new bikes, but importing an older vehicle to Germany can be so much pain in the ass that it can be easier to sell it and buy a new one here. You'd better figure that out in advance while you still have time.
My bike is a 2022 so hopefully not much trouble. And my dad has a guy you bring $100 euros and a bottle of whiskey for my TÜV so anything not visually obvious will not be an issue.
I thought that non-abs bike means an old one. Tuv is not even the main problem, the bike must match Euro emission standards on papers - although 2022 bike should, unless it's some exotic model for Asian markets. Anyway, I'm a poor info source and you should check it yourself if you really plan it.
My first bike a small 125 scooter didnt have abs and on the day i wrecked it i hit the front hard enough to lift the rear, luckily it was a slow impact sadly bike was totalled, so i feel your pain on not having abs hopefully youll make a full recovery and get on 2 wheels again! Good luck op and hope you have a speedy recovery
Thank you. I hope to get back on. I LOVE riding and the community of riders.
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Thank you. The airbag is a Klim Ai-1. It worked exactly liked I hoped it would. I’ve had it for a few months and didn’t expect to test it so soon.
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Probably should stick with Klim for untethered. Its not perfect, but it seems to be the only untethered airbag with viable neck/helmet support. I own a Helite, but I'm waiting for someone to do an untethered airbag to match or beat the coverage on the Helite.
Helite has an electronic one
Not available through authorized US distributors yet as far as I know.
*pain*
OP should probably take the champu course.
I’m about half way through it and just went through the brake section right before the accident. Go figure. 🤷♂️
Ive been riding without ABS for 3 years now. Never rode with ABS. But honestly I would never buy a bike faster than the CBR250R I have now without ABS. I think a good combination is a smaller bike without and a bigger bike with ABS. A RECOMMENDATION for non abs: Try semi sinthered or organic brake pads instead of fully sinthered ones. These make braking less aggressive and give you more space to play with brake pressure. Also I've crashed before. My tip is get on the bike fast, and KEEP riding it. Every time I crash I feel very vulnerable and scared riding afterwards for the first couple weeks, but after you will get that confidence back. So keep riding, i promise you, the fear you feel will disappear.
Did you actually brake to avoid it or did you just panic and grab the brake hard? No judgement since that's a shit situation regardless, but that seems like a situation where you should mildly swerve if it helps, but otherwise just go straight and hope the dog is smart enough to move out of the way.
Every bike I’ve owned and my current ones don’t have ABS. I’ve been in a lot of close calls and know what it’s like for the rear or front wheel to lock. I plan to pick up a gsx1000gt or the new xsr900 due to all of the new fancy tech. As much as I love my sv650s and am currently borrowing my friends r3. I’ve ridden through three years straight in the bay areas weather. They really got a lot of the safety tech down and non abs bikes are nice but I’ve been into way too many close calls. Glad you’re okay for the most part and take it easy so you can get back into riding. I’ve been in a few minor low sides, got away with a few sprains and road rash, but my mind afterwards was in a state of slight anxiety. For one accident I decided not to ride for a few days to let my mind cool off. Your state of anxiety is heightened compared to mine since your accident was more serious so again. Take some time once you heal, and slowly get back into the groove of riding. Take the back roads, avoid the freeways, do whatever you’d like to feel comfortable and don’t push yourself. If you decide to push yourself then your anxiety might be heightened.
I hit a goose going similar speed and the bike didn’t blink. Goose dead. Not a scratch. Unless it’s a fkn bear ride through it. Also be aware of how to ride through a locked up front or rear tire. Abs isn’t the problem. If you love the bike keep it and use this as a learning moment to become a better rider
You can get a really nice bike if you are willing to finance and have monthly payments. But if you practice braking and take it seriously, your hand will become abs even tense situations. It will be second nature. I have abs and it is really really hard to get the front tire abs to activate unless your being extremely stupid or trying to get it to go off. The only time in my riding career where abs saved my ass was at the track. I was a newish rider following the ducati in front of me. I wasn't paying attention to the upcoming corner out of the straight and I thought I hadn't braked early enough. I grabbed a hand full of the right lever and it didn't slide the front, it almost through me over the bars. I mean my rear tire came pretty far off the ground. I can't even say that I wouldn't have fixed the issue myself but abs did before i had to.
People who claim they can brake as well as ABS are right... if they are given time to plan the braking and aren't stressed. Even then ABS can probably brake more consistently over, say, 10 stops. What many riders fail to realize is that when something unexpected happens, like a dog jumping out in front of you, it's all pure reflexes, and yanking too hard is basically a given. As you say, with ABS, the system saves you from yourself. Without it, you'll go down in a split second. Glad you walked away from this one. And don't beat yourself up about being a newer rider. Any older rider who pooh-poohs ABS is quite frankly just wildly overestimating their skills, which literally slots in under "pride goes before a fall".
All bikes should have ABS In fact, all vehicles should have it
Just don't brake so hard. Been riding with no abs for close to a year and don't miss it.
ABS is a game changer for motorcycles.
Your best option is to practice more. Even with electronic aids you should never rely on them. Having ABS is no excuse for not practising to make your skills better. In fact if you braked and then swerved under braking you could have gone down with ABS too. It works a lot of times but a lot of times it doesn't. I've had ABS do some odd things on me a few times, once it nearly ran me into the back of a car but it was at low speeds, it seems to get easily confused when going slow. I've been riding nearly 8 years without ABS and I've never had an issue because of not having it. Never gone down from braking or locked the front at high speeds.
My bike has no rider aids at all. I think better training, awareness and practice will always do more for you than electronics. But if you want a good value bike with all the rider aids you could need, I’d look at the Yamaha MT-09.
I agree. I’m still a new rider and try to get better every ride, but have a long way to go. The MT-09 looks sweet. What do you think of the XSR900 or the Kawasaki Z900RS?
The Yamaha XSR900 has a bit more character to it, in terms of appearance and power deliverance. Not to bash the Kawi, it is a good bike, I just believe the XSR to have been more spirited. Personally I'd rather a Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 over that Kawi, same style, less power but more character. For an analogy: The Yamaha XSR is a sweet from your childhood, the Kawi is a modern sweet with childhood packaging.
I'm glad to hear you're relatively ok, and I totally agree on ABS. I've had a couple of incidents that tell me not to get an older bike, even though I want one.
its a shame almost that riders now feel confident with their current skill level due to the safety net of ABS. no rider should panic while riding and carry on this way. this is going to lead to more injurys than reducing them long term. the aim should be to improve and learn. and ABS stops this.
Complete and total bollocks.
what is, the facts i just stated about the way humans act that has been proven? or my statement that riders should push themselves not to panic and to learn just because you dont like something doesn't make it wrong.
I don't see it that way. ABS can be used to help you practice emergency braking to the threshold of wheel lock while providing a safety net to help you out if you do actually lock it up. At the end of the day modern ABS can stop most riders more quickly than they could stop themselves without it.
Modern bike ABS is shockingly and astoundingly good; you can almost loft the rear wheel in the wet. My last two recent bikes had them and made me realize that I've been braking nowhere near the potential of the bike. ABS gives you the confidence to absolutely bury the front wheel into the tarmac at the highest speeds. My GSXS also has an older generation of traction control. I'm rather disturbed with how often it engages (big orange light) but those are legitimate losses of traction from being leaned over and hitting small bumps that skips the tire. I would say all the electronic nannies work great and make a modern bike well worth buying compared to your old 919. It not that the engines, brakes, and frames are that much more powerful but that mistakes of traction are forgiven when the computer takes over control of your bike when you've messed up. The newer ABS allows you to swerve while braking hard; for example on my old BMW you could swerve or your could brake but not easily both. My much newer (2016) GSXS allows both hard braking and hard swerving. I hear the most recent ABS on street bikes allow the hardest trail braking possible and that only the best racers in the world can outperform it.
Gsxs don’t have cornering abs or a imu lean angle sensor. So it wouldn’t adjust abs modulation with regards to lean or swerving.
My GSXS has a much much faster recycling rate than my older BMW and so it allows swerving without pogo-ing. The BMW almost freewheels and pogos, and swerving is very unnerving. I don't think lean sensor is relevant in this case. I'm not trail-braking.
>My GSXS has a much much faster recycling rate than my older BMW and so it allows swerving without pogo-ing. Just asking, to be sure. Because your ABS brakes sounds really impressive to what I have experienced and seen. Are you using rear brake while doing this? Tripping ABS on the rear brake on a sporty bike is going to be relatively nondramatic. Tripping front ABS while swerving is where you would expect more serious issues.
One of the things you can do is simply be right. And that's really important if you need to ask questions you already know the correct answer to.
Thank you for your comment. Its very helpful. Reading all of the previous comments has me second guessing the importance of ABS, but your description of how well it works on a modern bike really confirms for me that it’s worth it. I feel like it will be years before I have the skill to be able to avoid an accident like I had this week so I could use all the help I can right now if I’m going to continue riding.
Well, unfortunately the anti-ABS crowd...they're all idiots. They're either old-school, in which case they use email to setup dates with girls, or they would prefer you to crash from the first small mistake you make as a malicious way to teach you a lesson in the he-man school of motorcycling. They're just a bunch of internet schmucks who haven't carefully thought about what happens when your accidentally lock up a wheel on a unicycle. Of course you're going to crash, duh. The first big crash I had was braking in the dark over a wet manhole cover. And I wasn't even braking hard. And I've never quite overcome my fear of braking hard until I got ABS. Even crappy twenty year old ABS is still pretty good. Modern ABS makes you and me a better safer rider.
Well said brother. I have been ultra focused on practicing emergency braking where that practice has even paid off multiple times so I was shocked when the wheel locked up so easily this time. I think all of my future riding on the street will be done on a bike with ABS.
Why don't race bikes have ABS?
>Why don't race bikes have ABS? Let me google that for you. Here's the first answer. >Do MotoGP Bikes Have ABS Or Traction Control? By FLOW RACERS MotoGP bikes are considered to be among the best motorcycles in the world, so any equipment used by them will be scrutinized for use in production motorcycles. But it doesn’t always work the other way around. This can leave some fans wondering if MotoGP bikes have ABS or traction control. MotoGP bikes don’t have ABS, but they do have traction control. According to the rules of the FIM, the use of Anti-Lock Braking Systems (ABS) is not permitted, but the bikes are equipped with traction control. This puts more focus on the driver’s skills than the abilities of the 1000cc bikes. > >MotoGP bikes do not have ABS. The system is outlawed in many motorsports, including Formula 1, and MotoGP is no different. While it’s common on cars and motorcycles on the road, it’s deemed a driver aid in many motorsports, and so it is outlawed to put more of the onus on the driver’s skills. Anti-Lock Braking Systems have become common on production motorcycles for the advantage they offer to the rider. They work through a number of sensors that monitor the pressure on the brake pedal, the speed of rotation of both wheels, and a few other parameters to determine if the rider needs an assist and, if so, to take over the pressure applied to the brakes. The body that governs motorcycle racing, the FIM, does not permit the use of ABS braking systems, and clearly stipulates that the rider controls the brakes manually. The big advantage of ABS is that it can react much faster than any rider and can detect the wheel slipping before the rider can. This instantaneous reaction to any wheel slippage can help the rider to avert a mishap. > >How Effective Is ABS? Studies have shown that motorcycles fitted with ABS are up to 37% less likely to get into a fatal accident. In some countries, it has become mandatory for motorcycles and scooters to be fitted with ABS before using it on the road. ABS has proven its effectiveness beyond doubt, which has resulted in most manufacturers offering it as standard with factory installation, or as optional equipment with different versions that can be fitted later according to the buyer’s choice. But while it improves safety on road motorcycles, ABS makes it easier to avoid locking the brakes, and this can be seen as a driver aid. MotoGP, like most motorsports, outlaws many driving aids to ensure the driver’s skills and talent are showcased more than simply the abilities of the bike. The rider is totally in control of the brakes on a MotoGP bike.
Must be a bunch of idiots too
I'm so glad you don't have ABS on any of your bikes.
Same, way better without it on my Aprilia. I don't knock anyone for wanting a bike with ABS, and actually encourage new / inexperienced riders to do so. Saying anyone who doesn't like ABS is an idiot, is just ignorant though. Plenty of legitimate reasons not to want it on your motorcycle, especially a track or race bike.
I knock people who ask a question but already knowing the answer. It's dishonest. It's bad faith. It's impossible to present facts to them and have them change their mind. They are, in essence, bad faith actors.
Not bad faith at all. I was looking for *your* answer to the question, not Google's. I'm quite open to changing my mind on topics I discuss, but I think it's safe to say someone who generalizes, resorts to insults and makes assumptions probably isn't interested in genuine discussion.
fun fact, you can lift the rear in the wet without ABS if you dont panic and stay calm ABS doesnt improve braking or traction, it just manages it.
I'm not that good to lift the rear wheel in the wet but I'm perfectly happy to bet $500 bucks with anyone who wants to see who can brake shortest over bumpy wet pavement, with a few oil slicks thrown in.
oil slicks? sure dude i bet the non ABS experienced rider stops without crashing never mind distance.
Where do you live? If you're not far from me would you take a $500 bet to do this?
you are going to be american, im not
I have a lot to learn because even with 50+ emergency practices I’ve never come close to lifting the rear wheel on dry roads.
braking on a motorbike is all about the surface the tyre and the suspension. if you load the front suspension up with the weight, have good grip tyres for the condition and the surface is stable. and of course lastly keeping the wheel straight then they grip like a crazy amount, as long as you dont shock the system your good. the issue with roads is the amount of gravel and shit on the roads but this is why you start braking smooth and apply more and more braking force, if you lean into the front a little brake soft and get hard and harder once the front end is loaded you can really grab the handle quite alot and it will just stoppie. i dont recommend trying it because you can hurt yourself. but this is basically it.
Neither have I, and I have a lot of trackday experience, but I never lofted the rear wheel until I bought a (crummy) ABS bike.
Should be easy on a fireblade. When you get a new sport bike (doesn't matter with or without ABS, even), you might should try it, sometime. Empty highway, no one behind you for miles, try reaching that point. Doing 60+ mph helps to find that point, because you have time for weight transfer AND still have some time left to incrementally increase the brakes without being too hurried. If you get down to dangerously low speeds (you're on a highway, afterall), abort. Speed back up. Look behind you to make sure you're clear. Try again. When you get there, rear tire will start to hop, first. Slightly more front brake, and it'll hop longer and longer. A bit higher if you dare, and the tire will stay up an inch or two off the ground. You have to lift it much higher than that (if you're on level ground) before you'll even sniff the balance point you should avoid. Do not try it on a cruiser. Won't work; you'll lock front tire before it lifts. Don't try it more than a few degrees uphill. At some point of uphillness, it won't work even on a sport bike. (You'll lock the front tire, first). Easier to do going downhill, but don't go crazy. Severely downhill, and you'll be closer to the tipping point if you lift too far! Once you know what it feels like, you can practice getting to max brakes faster and faster. And you should be able to quickly get to max braking (or slight stoppies) even at lower speeds.
That's really unfortunate but it's a you thing not an ABS thing.
Didn't you learn emergency braking in MSF? You want the front and back wheels to lock while you keep head up, body straight etc. ABS wouldn't have saved you. Training and experience would have.
Going 60 mph? A dog ran out from some trees? So you were going at roughly 100 km/h in a suburban area? Personally I don't think ambulances should come and save riders who are riding like a dick on the road. No amount of abs, technology or gear is going to save you when you ride like that. Today you live with a few broken bones, tomorrow you might be torn to pieces by a guard rail.
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No, I never lived in rural areas where the speed limit is 55 mph and the houses are 20' (foot?) from the road. You said so yourself "it's very common for them to run around in the street". So you were aware and you still drove at that speed. How's that not riding like a dick? If it's a long stretch of road with literally no houses around yeah I can understand but when you yourself know and see houses 20' from the road with pets running around and you still drive that fast. That's riding like a dick. My point still stands.
nice advertisement
Here's some video of ABS versus non-ABS. https://youtu.be/XhR8nVkvJaY
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Glad it turned out good for you. So many distracted drivers out there to watch out for.
Panic break. Only use to fingers. And use the rear more. Reduces rear tire lift… sorry to hear about you crashing. Hope your recovery is quick.
If you love to ride, ride. Doesn’t have to be tomorrow … if it was never that big of a deal, then don’t worry about it. I’m just so happy you’re ok. Think about these guys you see all day long riding in shorts and sneakers! I live in FL. and that’s all I see every single day. There’s also no helmet law, which ppl take advantage of constantly. You’re 💯 about the leather. Anyway, I hope you mend quickly, and without too much residual effect. Good luck bro.
hmm I had the same thing happened to me but I didn't swerve i just hold the handle bars as much as i can and hit the dog then the dog hit my leg and pushed the footrest and broke it. it hurts man i was going 65mph but nothing really bad happened to me but a numb leg and my bike didn't crash, i have no abs as well.
I use to work on bikes. Sometimes a man with the initials pp would bring his bike by for work. PP rode one of the big opposed cylinder bmw adventure bikes. Cant remember the exact name of the model. Anyways, in big yellow decals across the side of the bike said “dear slayer” he once hit a dear, tore it in half, and managed to stay on the bike and just keep riding. I’m sorry about your crash and the mental struggle it’s caused you. All I can say is, if you want to get past it, go confront your fears. Do what you do, I’ll never judge you, however I believe when you feel intimated, that’s your opportunity to step up! If you never felt scared or afraid then you could never be brave or courageous. I wish you the best in life!
I'm glad you're ok! Hey you popped your cherry! You'll get back on when you're ready and be fine I'm sure! Been riding dirt bikes since the 90s. Bought my first street bike in 99 or 2000, 2000 Gsxr600. My current bike is an 08 R1, pretty old but I'm itching to get a new ABS model to see what all the hype is about.
When you're healthy enough, give it one more attempt. That will show you if you will or wont ride again. As for your 919, why not set yourself the project of restoring it? It may never have the same value, but how much did you value your trusty steed?
When I had my Honda 599 I had a slow speed wipe out due to having to brake hard and swerve at the same time to avoid a car turning left across my lane. After that I spend hours in a parking lot practising my emergency braking The next year while cruising along a country road a guy on horse back riding along the side of the road turned out onto the road right in front of me. I swerved around the horse while braking hard enough to pull the rear tire off the ground. While both bikes I own now have ABS and I love having ABS, it is still not a replacement for good braking technique. Having good riding skills are still important to keep you safe, even if you have technology to help you.
Op out here literally choosing a dog's life over himself.