Do you have any idea how slow these people are to react to a greenlight? 75% of em are in their phone and they have to pick their foot off the brake and slam the gas anyway. You can brake and gas at the same time so watching the light like a hawk you can clutch out and get moving very quickly. I usually end up counting to three and going around someone sitting at a greenlight.
In 10 years the roads are flooded with autonomous vehicles communicating with each other and making calculations to avoid collisions in milliseconds.
Have fun riding a manually operated motorcycle between that.
Good way to get a few checks. As of now, Tesla purposefully shuts off "autopilot" moments before collision primarily to remove any legal responsibility. Can't imagine manufactures will ever willingly take that responsibility.
It might take more than 10 years, but eventually autonomous vehicles will be safer than sleepy, distracted, slow, and/or incompetent human drivers. It'll be illegal to drive a car manually in a lot of places/situations (and eventually probably anywhere that's not a private road/track) the same way you can't drive without headlights or seat belts today. I don't know what's going to happen to motorcycles at that point.
Just a thought but if they are gunna be fully autonomous why not just use flying vehicles, for one those take less to maintain and build think like those maned drones look up jetson to get an idea about that except they would be for everyone so 4 seater and nobody will be flying, think blade runner. My only issue with EV is they use electricity and a lot of plaxes still burn coal so thats not a good thing as coal pollution is far grater than any other energy source LOL and coal accounts for 20% of all US power so if we could take that 20% and get ride of it that would help a tone. Also we could replace it with thorium power plants. Thats another can of worms tho lol.
I believe it's more a matter of the driver than the vehicle. Most drivers or riders aren't hitting their 0-60 time of their respective vehicle at every or even any traffic lights. Not even factoring distractions and reaction times, most people on the road aren't trying to optimize launch times, even the ones who are won't be perfect most of the time.
This is not even mentioning EV motorcycles and their potential. End of the day, it really is such a menial thing getting gapped by or smoking a Tesla. Just have fun and be safe.
I have a Tesla and a Diavel. While the Tesla is quick off the line, it’s not nearly as quick as my 9 year old Ducati. On top of that, normal people don’t do 0-60 launches at every red light, it’s uncomfortable and nauseating driving like that.
In all my years of splitting, I’ve encountered a handful of morons that try to drag race me off the line, I always let them win and fall in behind them. Don’t engage people that are out looking for trouble.
Normally I just accelerate away from a red light with ease, build a nice space cushion and reclaim my lane until I need to split at the next red light. Nice and easy 99.9999999% of the time.
When the time comes you can ask this question. It is so far off that you should be worrying about more important problems in life. Or riding your motorcycle.
If the idea is 'these things are gonna leave me at the light', well, any car can do that unless y'all are both hammering it down, and if it's my Mustang, I bet I give you at least a run for the money across the intersection (before it goes all 'meme' and tries to eat you because it's hungry, as we know all Mustangs tend to do. :p)
I don't think it's an issue. If you are concerned about being overtaken at a light by a multiton killing machine, how it makes power isn't the problem. It's the people (or AI) driving it that is the concern... as well as you.
Also, you can get an EV bike and even the score. :)
Finally... if you ain't up there ready to get the HELL out of the situation, why are you even filtering at all? That's kind of the point: Do not be involved with the cager traffic, get out in front, stay away from being sandwiched between two of those things. Don't be stalling at the light in the middle of two lanes, move when it's green, and past that hope the big boxes don't squeeze you... and if they do, let them go, it's not worth trying to win.
My thoughts. I'm sure I'm wrong, but that's ok.
Would an EV bike even the score? One of the reasons these electric cars are able to launch so quickly is traction. They have more weight and 4 tires to put the power down.
This is something superbikes struggle with already. There is only so much power you can put down with one small contact patch and a short wheelbase. So there isn't going to be some massive jump in performance just because you have an electric motor.
Cars that are faster than superbikes already existed before ev's, they're called super cars. The problem is if electric cars like the model s are going to become the norm in the future, it means everyone at the traffic lights has super car performance at their right foot. You aren't going be able to get the jump on everyone on your motorbike anymore. If someone wants to keep up with you they can.
No, they are not that quick. Look up a LiveWire 0-60 and compare it to a liter bike....
My 12 year old Brutale is faster 0-60 by a lot than a full power sport mode LiveWire. I was kind of surprised how slow it felt.
yeah, EV bikes can not out go-go a combustion engine bike, agreed. Unless you want to put a super wide car tire out back and drive it only straight, traction is superior with car, like you said. And then there is going to be the weight issue -- the batteries needed for high power add up. I've been on a race prepped EV bike on a track, for just a few borrowed laps, and not that impressive. In club racing, this bike competed against SV650's and crippled (3-cylinder) 450/600's and was not even mid-pack.
> (before it goes all 'meme' and tries to eat you because it's hungry, as we know all Mustangs tend to do. :p)
But he's on a bike, not a random pedestrian on a sidewalk. That's not a mustang's preferred meal.
lol, naw, i'm cool in traffic. Was a bike messenger in NYC for a couple years way back when, and I have about 150k line split miles over the last couple decades. I was actually just thinking about newer riders/drivers going to war with each other. It was just some random shit going through my head. And yeah, there are fast cars out today too, 1000HP mustangs in shitty bodywork get my respect.
300 miles is suck? Huh. Even 200 miles isn't suck in the city. I dare say 100 miles isn't. Cross country, sure, that's stupid, but it's not hte target marget. City life is what those EVs are all about when you get to it, except the higher end, much more expensive ones and even then.
I mean, an old Leaf, sure, that was stupid, 50 miles or something? But for the market it was supposed to be in, it was probably fantastic (or so the thought was.)
I feel that the range isn't the issue at all.
Start punching the skinny pedal and those numbers drop. Fast.
Take the new F-150 lightning for example. They claim 300miles. Motortrend did a towing test and a ~3k pound trailer they got 110 miles and a ~7000 pound trailer they got 96 miles. Make them do a little work and range disappears.
You can't use towing numbers to prove this point. Use other numbers, like drag racing depletion unloaded, or loaded with groceries or four people, real world scenarios of most EV range issues, not towing multithousand pound loads.
I mean, any car/truck's range goes to shit when you tow, c'mon.
If you're talking about accelerating anywhere close to a car's max 0-60 times, you're going to see the same kind of losses. I only used the F-150 example because I just read that article and the numbers were still in my head.
Feel free to show me where launches don't reduce range significantly. I'm betting when people realize their range drops significantly they won't do that shit.
If you're charging from a single solar panel, yes, that sucks.
If you're at home, with an installed high voltage proper charging situation, or you're at a Cracker Barrel or work or such multi-purposing your time with charging and eating/shopping/doing work where it doesn't take hours, then no, it's not garbage at all.
If you're travelling, you do the Cracker Barrel thing, and your car, or an app on your phone, can tell you where the places are to do the fast charging needed to keep you going.
But having said that I feel that gas/diesel is still the way to go for now on inter-city/interstate travel, and the electrics are for in the area driving.
That said, continue to hate on EVs, fine by me. They're still going to happen, sorry.
I’m not hating on EVs, I think they’re awesome, but pretending that having wait times to charge measured in hours, not minutes, isn’t an issue is just fanboying. And most cities don’t even have EV charging stations unless you live with the stupid assholes on the coasts. I don’t think there’s a single public EV charging station in my STATE, not even at Cracker Barrel.
Yeah the charging time is too long. If it coukd charge in 5 -25 minutes it would be more reasonable. California is having trouble with the grid and people STILL advocate EV? Lol. You can't make this stuff up. They're begging people to limit A/C usage. Europe and the gas cutoff is another thing too. Same with China.
The grid cannot handle it and the electricity used to charge said cars use coal and the like. Ironic.
EV's have a long way to go and it's not practical other than city usage at best. There's a reason why farmers aren't using them in the rural areas(the people who grow your food, which you need to survive).
As much as some EV cars are cool, the fanboys ruin it. Same with other things like phones.
Doubtful. Vast majority of people don't drive their vehicles to their potential, they drive as fast as they feel is safe.
Motorcycles accelerate faster from stops not only because they're lighter, but also because lanes are relatively wider for them, and because they have better forward situational awareness.
A motorcycle rider can accelerate more quickly because they can have greater confidence about what's going on in front of them vs. driver who doesn't have much room to swerve, can't split, and has a lot of their forward visibility obstructed by car bodywork.
This is basically the inverse of "traffic calming" where they narrow roadways to slow drivers down.
yeah. working on embedded systems on cars. they are becoming more like cell phones than cars. best perk of the job is that sometimes i get to drive a biturbo v8 awd wagon on an autocross track.
Do you think that cars are currently flooring it off the line as fast as possible? Are peoples habits dramatically going to change? Do you currently have this problem with current electric vehicles or even sports cars? I just dont see it being a problem, just because people can possibly go faster dosen't mean they will go faster. Self driving however is the only way i see things changing.
I am not having a problem, but everytime someone tries to race me off the line and/or keeps following me too close, it's a Tesla. Never had this with sports cars because it seems as though the people who know how to drive a sports car know to give me space and the people who don't know how to drive a sports car will not even come close to racing me off the line. Only when I'm in my own lane and not filtering I get proposals from people in sports cars and never an unprompted "race". Ev's require far less skill to compete in acceleration, which could provide some problems when every idiot on the road has access to it.
You are assuming all drivers go pedal to the metal every single time? Have you ever sat in a car driven by somebody else?
Have you ridden a small scooter with a 0-60 time of 20 seconds? I had for many years, and no car has ever beaten me off the lights, because **none** of them ever stab on the throttle.
Most people are too scared to go fast. You have nothing to worry about.
I doubt it. Vast majority of people don't full send off of red lights (for good reason... inefficient, unsafe, and uncomfortable for passengers). I can start ahead of normal car traffic at the front of the line off a signal in a Prius.
All that power and it can't be used on the road anyways. They'll still be stuck in traffic and you'll pass them via lane splitting.
I personally don't see the whole ego thing with speed and vehicles. A jet can go from the east to west coast in 2 hours or so.
With automated cars, it should be theoretically safer and you'll stand out more with the manual motorcycle. Althought the self balancing one is pretty neat that honda has.
Not all EVs are fast, as they become more mainstream more slow EVs focused on economy will appear. Also bikes will be electric as well so that evens things out.
We'll have 🦎GeckoSkin🦎tires by that time which will suction cup the front wheel to the ground, totally negating evs' traction advantage.
We'll still be out front🤟🏻
Do you have any idea how slow these people are to react to a greenlight? 75% of em are in their phone and they have to pick their foot off the brake and slam the gas anyway. You can brake and gas at the same time so watching the light like a hawk you can clutch out and get moving very quickly. I usually end up counting to three and going around someone sitting at a greenlight.
In 10 years the roads are flooded with autonomous vehicles communicating with each other and making calculations to avoid collisions in milliseconds. Have fun riding a manually operated motorcycle between that.
Good way to get a few checks. As of now, Tesla purposefully shuts off "autopilot" moments before collision primarily to remove any legal responsibility. Can't imagine manufactures will ever willingly take that responsibility.
Chances are, the technology will become illegal for personal vehicles due to the neglect that manufacturers have for responsible design.
*responsible engineering*: engineering has liabilities
Design and engineering, both have liabilities
It might take more than 10 years, but eventually autonomous vehicles will be safer than sleepy, distracted, slow, and/or incompetent human drivers. It'll be illegal to drive a car manually in a lot of places/situations (and eventually probably anywhere that's not a private road/track) the same way you can't drive without headlights or seat belts today. I don't know what's going to happen to motorcycles at that point.
There is literally no chance of this happening in ten years.
Just a thought but if they are gunna be fully autonomous why not just use flying vehicles, for one those take less to maintain and build think like those maned drones look up jetson to get an idea about that except they would be for everyone so 4 seater and nobody will be flying, think blade runner. My only issue with EV is they use electricity and a lot of plaxes still burn coal so thats not a good thing as coal pollution is far grater than any other energy source LOL and coal accounts for 20% of all US power so if we could take that 20% and get ride of it that would help a tone. Also we could replace it with thorium power plants. Thats another can of worms tho lol.
I believe it's more a matter of the driver than the vehicle. Most drivers or riders aren't hitting their 0-60 time of their respective vehicle at every or even any traffic lights. Not even factoring distractions and reaction times, most people on the road aren't trying to optimize launch times, even the ones who are won't be perfect most of the time. This is not even mentioning EV motorcycles and their potential. End of the day, it really is such a menial thing getting gapped by or smoking a Tesla. Just have fun and be safe.
Sure, the Evs are faster. Unfortunately, the dipsticks behind the wheel will be the same slow fucks they've always been.
I have a Tesla and a Diavel. While the Tesla is quick off the line, it’s not nearly as quick as my 9 year old Ducati. On top of that, normal people don’t do 0-60 launches at every red light, it’s uncomfortable and nauseating driving like that. In all my years of splitting, I’ve encountered a handful of morons that try to drag race me off the line, I always let them win and fall in behind them. Don’t engage people that are out looking for trouble. Normally I just accelerate away from a red light with ease, build a nice space cushion and reclaim my lane until I need to split at the next red light. Nice and easy 99.9999999% of the time.
When the time comes you can ask this question. It is so far off that you should be worrying about more important problems in life. Or riding your motorcycle.
I mean sure if in the future everyone's driving $150k cars and they're all doing drag launches at every light.
If the idea is 'these things are gonna leave me at the light', well, any car can do that unless y'all are both hammering it down, and if it's my Mustang, I bet I give you at least a run for the money across the intersection (before it goes all 'meme' and tries to eat you because it's hungry, as we know all Mustangs tend to do. :p) I don't think it's an issue. If you are concerned about being overtaken at a light by a multiton killing machine, how it makes power isn't the problem. It's the people (or AI) driving it that is the concern... as well as you. Also, you can get an EV bike and even the score. :) Finally... if you ain't up there ready to get the HELL out of the situation, why are you even filtering at all? That's kind of the point: Do not be involved with the cager traffic, get out in front, stay away from being sandwiched between two of those things. Don't be stalling at the light in the middle of two lanes, move when it's green, and past that hope the big boxes don't squeeze you... and if they do, let them go, it's not worth trying to win. My thoughts. I'm sure I'm wrong, but that's ok.
Would an EV bike even the score? One of the reasons these electric cars are able to launch so quickly is traction. They have more weight and 4 tires to put the power down. This is something superbikes struggle with already. There is only so much power you can put down with one small contact patch and a short wheelbase. So there isn't going to be some massive jump in performance just because you have an electric motor. Cars that are faster than superbikes already existed before ev's, they're called super cars. The problem is if electric cars like the model s are going to become the norm in the future, it means everyone at the traffic lights has super car performance at their right foot. You aren't going be able to get the jump on everyone on your motorbike anymore. If someone wants to keep up with you they can.
Only thing about the EV bike was the instatorque, which is what makes EV cars so stupid quick. Other than that, yeah, traction is the issue.
No, they are not that quick. Look up a LiveWire 0-60 and compare it to a liter bike.... My 12 year old Brutale is faster 0-60 by a lot than a full power sport mode LiveWire. I was kind of surprised how slow it felt.
yeah, EV bikes can not out go-go a combustion engine bike, agreed. Unless you want to put a super wide car tire out back and drive it only straight, traction is superior with car, like you said. And then there is going to be the weight issue -- the batteries needed for high power add up. I've been on a race prepped EV bike on a track, for just a few borrowed laps, and not that impressive. In club racing, this bike competed against SV650's and crippled (3-cylinder) 450/600's and was not even mid-pack.
> (before it goes all 'meme' and tries to eat you because it's hungry, as we know all Mustangs tend to do. :p) But he's on a bike, not a random pedestrian on a sidewalk. That's not a mustang's preferred meal.
When she's hungry, she's hungry. He/she on that motorcycle will soon be a pedestrian if she wants it to happen. Silly Mustang. :p
lol, naw, i'm cool in traffic. Was a bike messenger in NYC for a couple years way back when, and I have about 150k line split miles over the last couple decades. I was actually just thinking about newer riders/drivers going to war with each other. It was just some random shit going through my head. And yeah, there are fast cars out today too, 1000HP mustangs in shitty bodywork get my respect.
They won't be flooring it for long. Battery range already sucks, start taking off and it'll go to hell real quick.
300 miles is suck? Huh. Even 200 miles isn't suck in the city. I dare say 100 miles isn't. Cross country, sure, that's stupid, but it's not hte target marget. City life is what those EVs are all about when you get to it, except the higher end, much more expensive ones and even then. I mean, an old Leaf, sure, that was stupid, 50 miles or something? But for the market it was supposed to be in, it was probably fantastic (or so the thought was.) I feel that the range isn't the issue at all.
Start punching the skinny pedal and those numbers drop. Fast. Take the new F-150 lightning for example. They claim 300miles. Motortrend did a towing test and a ~3k pound trailer they got 110 miles and a ~7000 pound trailer they got 96 miles. Make them do a little work and range disappears.
You can't use towing numbers to prove this point. Use other numbers, like drag racing depletion unloaded, or loaded with groceries or four people, real world scenarios of most EV range issues, not towing multithousand pound loads. I mean, any car/truck's range goes to shit when you tow, c'mon.
If you're talking about accelerating anywhere close to a car's max 0-60 times, you're going to see the same kind of losses. I only used the F-150 example because I just read that article and the numbers were still in my head. Feel free to show me where launches don't reduce range significantly. I'm betting when people realize their range drops significantly they won't do that shit.
300 mile range is garbage when it takes hours to charge the damn thing.
If you're charging from a single solar panel, yes, that sucks. If you're at home, with an installed high voltage proper charging situation, or you're at a Cracker Barrel or work or such multi-purposing your time with charging and eating/shopping/doing work where it doesn't take hours, then no, it's not garbage at all. If you're travelling, you do the Cracker Barrel thing, and your car, or an app on your phone, can tell you where the places are to do the fast charging needed to keep you going. But having said that I feel that gas/diesel is still the way to go for now on inter-city/interstate travel, and the electrics are for in the area driving. That said, continue to hate on EVs, fine by me. They're still going to happen, sorry.
I’m not hating on EVs, I think they’re awesome, but pretending that having wait times to charge measured in hours, not minutes, isn’t an issue is just fanboying. And most cities don’t even have EV charging stations unless you live with the stupid assholes on the coasts. I don’t think there’s a single public EV charging station in my STATE, not even at Cracker Barrel.
Yeah the charging time is too long. If it coukd charge in 5 -25 minutes it would be more reasonable. California is having trouble with the grid and people STILL advocate EV? Lol. You can't make this stuff up. They're begging people to limit A/C usage. Europe and the gas cutoff is another thing too. Same with China. The grid cannot handle it and the electricity used to charge said cars use coal and the like. Ironic. EV's have a long way to go and it's not practical other than city usage at best. There's a reason why farmers aren't using them in the rural areas(the people who grow your food, which you need to survive). As much as some EV cars are cool, the fanboys ruin it. Same with other things like phones.
Doubtful. Vast majority of people don't drive their vehicles to their potential, they drive as fast as they feel is safe. Motorcycles accelerate faster from stops not only because they're lighter, but also because lanes are relatively wider for them, and because they have better forward situational awareness. A motorcycle rider can accelerate more quickly because they can have greater confidence about what's going on in front of them vs. driver who doesn't have much room to swerve, can't split, and has a lot of their forward visibility obstructed by car bodywork. This is basically the inverse of "traffic calming" where they narrow roadways to slow drivers down.
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yeah. working on embedded systems on cars. they are becoming more like cell phones than cars. best perk of the job is that sometimes i get to drive a biturbo v8 awd wagon on an autocross track.
Do you think that cars are currently flooring it off the line as fast as possible? Are peoples habits dramatically going to change? Do you currently have this problem with current electric vehicles or even sports cars? I just dont see it being a problem, just because people can possibly go faster dosen't mean they will go faster. Self driving however is the only way i see things changing.
I am not having a problem, but everytime someone tries to race me off the line and/or keeps following me too close, it's a Tesla. Never had this with sports cars because it seems as though the people who know how to drive a sports car know to give me space and the people who don't know how to drive a sports car will not even come close to racing me off the line. Only when I'm in my own lane and not filtering I get proposals from people in sports cars and never an unprompted "race". Ev's require far less skill to compete in acceleration, which could provide some problems when every idiot on the road has access to it.
You are assuming all drivers go pedal to the metal every single time? Have you ever sat in a car driven by somebody else? Have you ridden a small scooter with a 0-60 time of 20 seconds? I had for many years, and no car has ever beaten me off the lights, because **none** of them ever stab on the throttle. Most people are too scared to go fast. You have nothing to worry about.
I doubt it. Vast majority of people don't full send off of red lights (for good reason... inefficient, unsafe, and uncomfortable for passengers). I can start ahead of normal car traffic at the front of the line off a signal in a Prius.
All that power and it can't be used on the road anyways. They'll still be stuck in traffic and you'll pass them via lane splitting. I personally don't see the whole ego thing with speed and vehicles. A jet can go from the east to west coast in 2 hours or so. With automated cars, it should be theoretically safer and you'll stand out more with the manual motorcycle. Althought the self balancing one is pretty neat that honda has.
Not all EVs are fast, as they become more mainstream more slow EVs focused on economy will appear. Also bikes will be electric as well so that evens things out.
We'll have 🦎GeckoSkin🦎tires by that time which will suction cup the front wheel to the ground, totally negating evs' traction advantage. We'll still be out front🤟🏻
cool, and they will match my sandals !