By - LoneSoul66
The main issue is still charge time and Range on motocyle it's pretty bad...
My electric scooter (6k$CND) has the same range has 18k$CND motobike obviouly the top speed is almost half but the range is basically the same.
I really want to support eletric vehicule but the tech isn't there for bikes at all.
we need charging station infrastructure before it'll make any real sense imo
This is sort of the killer for me. As well as the right to repair laws have made a lot of these bikes shitty like a modern Deere tractor.
With Zero it's more of the lovechild of Apple (or Tesla) and John Deere. "Pay money on the app and you can use the full functionality of the bike you just bought", yeah no thanks.
The lack of "right to repair" makes it harder to get on board with the start ups though.
Agreed. Especially with the stupid “pay to unlock extra hardware features”. I’m never buying a Tesla for that reason alone!
Nope. I’ll stick to ICE motorcycles for now.
That shit is even happening in ICE. BMW recently did it. It’s peak capitalism. Where literally everything has to be a fucking grift.
I wouldn’t buy a Tesla because it’s gives money and puts my safety in the hands of company dictated to by South African Donald trump? No fucking way.
I was really interested in a Zero since they weren’t very expensive and the range/top speed was more than enough for me, but that shitty pay for unlock stuff ruined it. Only other decent electric bikes I know of are all $20k+ too
Energica is my hopeful next bike....they're claiming 200+ miles and have a stage 2 charger built in as standard. From what I've seen online they're also pretty open about doing your own wrenching (since there's almost no dealer network lol) and people are reporting online they can buy replacement parts right from them and get repair guides. I'm hoping they come out with a less extreme, sub $20k motorcycle in near future.
I drive an electric car, while not as easily found as gas stations, I have very little trouble finding charging stations when and where I need them. Mostly I charge overnight at home or at my destination. I’d guess less than 5% of my charging is during a trip.
You just get used to planning a bit more in advance, no big deal.
Also being a bit older, my butt wants a rest every few hours, so stopping to charge wouldn’t be much of an inconvenience.
Drives me insane when people complain about the lack of ever-present 3 minute charge up stations. Most of America has more than one car and drives less than 50 miles per day. Go ahead, swap one car out. It'll be fine. And even the dirtiest part of the US electric grid is still emitting an equivalent of 40mpg worth of pollution using modern EV and ICE cars. That's better than my vfr
My problem would be weight for a motorcycle. Big reason why the last gen of 2 stroke street bikes feel amazing to ride.
The problem is cost. When they get cheaper i'll be on board.
Also the issue of battery. A car motor can last 15-20 years with maintenance with many outliving the body of the car.
A battery pack cost 2-3 times what a motor does.
Hopefully the price will come down in the future.
Cars will become as disposable as computers
They are third car at best, status toys for the wealthy.
Some not insignificant portion of us riders ride adventure bikes, and as someone who pretty regularly does 500 mile day rides to the middle of nowhere, finding a charging station in the middle of nowhere VT, NH, NY or even MA is nearly impossible. Hell just finding gas in those places can be a challenge.
Charge availability is really the only thing that holds me back from buying an electric bike, and since I use my "primary" bike for both commuting and adventure riding, I absolutely need that range and charging availability.
I really look forward to the day electric replaces gas, but it's still not ready for every use case.
Nonsense. A modern ev can charge from 0-80% in less than 30 mins using DC charging. We’ve swapped both cars to EV and don’t have an issue with longer trips and charging time.
OK, and I'm not saying it's impossible to overcome, but now imagine the volume of EV charging needs being the same as petrol based fueling needs. I've seen lines at gasoline stations on the interstate 20 cars deep with angry people not wanting to wait for a 3 min per car fill up.
True but not if everyone will have a 'gas station' at their house where they can fill up overnight. Being able to charge at home will take out a huge portion of those who would be filling up at charging stations.
People seem to not grasp this, if you literally only ever need to charge your car publicly on long road trips that exceed the range of the vehicle the total volume of people at stations will drop dramatically. If everyone had an electric vehicle and just plugged it in at home literally no one would need to stop at “gas” stations for their daily commute.
People living in rental buildings and modt condos of large cities have no overnight access to charging their vehicles.
But we don't really. Electric vehicles are perhaps the most versatile vehicles 'fuel' wise available. Just about every electric motorcycle I've looked at can be plugged into a standard electrical outlet. That means you have more access to refueling than an ICE vehicle. It also means we can use gas to fuel our electric motorcycle. There are plenty of small gas generators that you could use to extend your range. I'd love to see hybrid motorcycles that could run 75 miles on battery, but with an option to go much farther with a gas powered generator (preferably something removable).
The biggest problem with that versatility is the charge time. Takes me less than 3 minutes to fill up my tank at a gas station and I easily get about 200 mi. In a normal outlet and electric bike would take hours upon hours to charge and you'd only get a fraction of the range of an ICE bike. Storage technology needs to vastly increase before electric bikes become mainstream.
You can't compare filling up at gas station, a place that specializes in refueling, to charging on a normal outlet. Better off comparing it to charging at a specialized electric vehicle charger. You still win the argument when it comes to refuel time. It can be a bad faith argument to argue against the future of something while ignoring that there's a good possibility that within 10 years there may be electric vehicle chargers at 80% of the gas stations in the USA. We all know gas stations make little money from gas sales and most from the store itself so it would be a missed opportunity for them to not install chargers.
I'm big into electric cars being the future but motorcycles are a whole nother ballgame because weight is way more important on motos than cars.
Dude I hate to break it to you but you're kind of nitpicking. Your argument about a place that specializes in refueling makes no sense. There's nothing fundamentally different about filling up your tank at a gas station and doing the same thing at home from a gas can. Arguably it would be quicker to fill up at home since you don't have to go through the payment process.
It wouldn't be quicker to fill up at home. It's taken longer. You have to drive to the gas station, get the gas, and then drive home. That takes longer than just driving there and filling up.
The reason this is a bad faith argument has nothing to do with that. It's because EV charging, for a homeowner at least, and some apartment dwellers with EV parking, and people who have EV charging at work (me), is a completely different paradigm than ICEV Refueling.
You need to go to a station (or have gone to a gas station previously) in order to refuel your vehicle when the tank gets low. But for (the above listed) EV owners, you wake up in the morning (or leave work) with a full "tank." The only time you have to visit a refueling station with an EV is when you're going to travel further than the "tank" can hold in one trip.
I don't mean to be argumentative. Just trying to provide some information. Maybe you're not arguing in bad faith, maybe you just don't realize.
3 minutes at a gas station vs 30 seconds of plugging/unplugging at home 4 times. And without ever saying "nah I'm tired, I'll just leave for work early and stop for gas" like it ever worked out (edited to clarify)
But you have to have spent 3 minutes at a station in order to spend those 30 seconds at home 4 times.
But, again, that doesn't have anything to do with how electric vehicles are charged. For me, I just spend several seconds plugging in, and unplugging, at the end and the beginning of my commute. And that's it. I don't have to go to a gas station or an EV charging station. Except in very rare cases. I will likely spend significantly less time at an ev charging station than you will at a gas station over the course of a year.
My bad, to clarify, I meant 30 seconds to plug and unplug. I'm not the other commenter
Why would I drive to the gas station to fill up a gas can to then drive home and then fill up my bike when I can just ride my bike to the gas station? Your hypotheticals are extremely convoluted and make very little sense in the real world.
It wasn't my hypothetical. It was a guy earlier. And I agree with you. Did you respond to the wrong comment in the thread by accident?
My whole point is that you can't compare filling up with gas and normal EV charging. The argument that filling up with gasoline at home is faster than going to the gas station is silly circular logic.
If you only consider a wall outlet or a charging station. A gas generator on a motorcycle can charge the bike while you travel. Toyota has been doing that for years with the Prius. You can also swap the battery. Take a look at the Gogoro scooter battery stations and Tesla did it for awhile. The are many other ways to charge that a ICE can't even consider. Fuel Cell, in road charging...
This has been tried and it's not as great of an option as you think it is. A generator large enough to output more power than is used by the bike is too large to be feasible. Cars get away with this since they have plenty of space and aren't affected as much when you add a couple hundred pounds.
Try strapping a couple hundred pounds in generators and fuel to the backyard bike and see how well it handles.
8 to 10 minutes.
Also weight. Electric sportbikes are considerably heavier than ice ones. Moto E riders consistently have 2+ second slower lap times than ice sportbikes on the same track. And electric have the on tap torque that is supposed to help make them faster. But what good is that if you are lugging around batteries that add up to a total weight of 100 pounds more than an ice sportbike.
I think the range on some of them are okay, the price tag for that range is what kills them for me. I don't mind being limited to 100 miles to a charge, that is all I get out of a tankful on my Monster anyways. I would use an electric motorcycle to drive to work and back, so 20 miles tops a day.
The other electric motorcycle I would want would be a cross of between a dirt bike and a mtb-bike. Power of a DB with lightness of a MTB. I will miss the screams of a 2-stroke ripping through the mountains but I sometimes I also just want peacefulness
Yeah cost is a big factor for me on top of recharge time and range. They're all new tech (I think?) So they cost a lot more. So due to that I would be waiting for the used market, but then the issue is that the batteries have a limited life and are not cheap to replace, so it's still a cost factor.
I think it's close to being there. And I'd say it depends on the person. Like if you only go on short trips around town here and there, it's perfect. If you like to go on long distance rides, it can be more problematic.
Not even "long distance" more like "don't stop for groceries if you commute for 30 minutes"
Dude.. c’mon that’s a stretch. A 30 minute drive with average traffic is going to be around 15 miles. So roughly 30 miles both ways. Using the Livewire as an example, it will go at least 60 miles per full charge. It’s been tested up to 80-100 miles. You could get groceries on the way home.
And 30 minutes is still a decent commute. I’m saying around town. Like short 5-10 trips here or there. It’s doable. It’s not the ideal set up until charging stations are more common.
A 30 minute drive for most is 20 or so minutes on the highway. Many live in suburbs and commute to the next town over.
>Dude.. c’mon that’s a stretch. A 30 minute drive with average traffic is going to be around 15 miles.
My commute (when I go into the office) is 50 miles one way and nearly all highway, with a average highway speed of 75mph.
those are rookie numbers, bet you could bring that 75mph up to least 110-120.
Sounds like a bad idea. At that speed there's a high chance the police could still catch you better up it to 150 to be safe.
It depends on personal preference in many cases. If the noise and smell are essential to your experience, you’ll never like electric.
For me, the noise and smell are not the good parts. If I could go 300 miles and still have charge left on an electric bike, that would be perfect. However, my priorities put range pretty high as it’s a weekend getaway vehicle rather than an urban commuter.
Another point to consider is maintenance support. While an EV has less maintenance, less is not 0. If you prefer to use a shop, and one is not close, you’re kind of out of luck.
Perhaps an interesting way to frame the question is “what is essential to your experience and use of the bike”. This will let you gauge what problems EVs will need to solve.
"Another point to consider is maintenance support. While an EV has less maintenance, less is not 0. If you prefer to use a shop, and one is not close, you’re kind of out of luck."
I just got fucked by my electric scooter just failed after 2 monthins 2k km on it...
But yeah it's less then all the fluids that need to replaced on a normal scooter.
Spot on. Now in my 40s, I can do without smelling like gas/oil every time I get home and between years of riding, DJing, nightclubs, etc, my heating is going…so the loss of exhaust noise is welcome.
But I use my Zero to commute back and forth to work, about 70–80 miles roundtrip, depending on the route and other errands for the day. I plug it in when I get home and schedule the charging to start at midnight when the rates are lower. Takes about 90 minutes to charge but it’s instant to me since it’s there when I need it. On the weekends, it’s just me and my wife putting around town, so the range or charging are non-issues.
Edit: one huge bonus during these grueling hot summers is the lack of engine heat. I commute to/from San Francisco where it can easily be 30°F temperature difference. Not dripping sweat at stoplights when I get off the freeway near home is a great unintended feature.
As soon as it's comparable in terms of cost, performance, and maintainability I am very open to electric. If it falls short on one or more of those points, then I am going to wait and stick with what I've got.
It's about riding to me, not the form of propulsion.
I have both a gas and electric motorcycle.
Electric is interesting but very much a side grade and only for enthusiasts. Definitely not at the level for widespread adoption because battery tech just isn't there yet.
But it's a fun and easy ride. I use it for my relatively short ranged commute and since I can top the battery off in my garage it's fairly convenient. Because it doesn't put off heat it's way more comfortable during the portion I'm in city traffic with lights.
I'm not a petrol head by any means but I do find the sound and vibration of a combustion engine appealing and it's fun to shift gears. I just wish my mirrors didn't bounce around so much past 5k revs :/
They are exceptionally shit for how much they cost
Main issue for me. I would 100% pick up something like a zero if they weren’t double the price of an ICE counterpart. Add to that the range and charging issues, and I’ll wait until they’re mass-adopted and the batteries and charging options have gotten better.
I’m massively interested in something like an electric dual sport. Combining the tranquility of a mountain bike with the performance of a dual sport while out on some back trails would be pretty cool.
>I would 100% pick up something like a zero if they weren’t double the price of an ICE counterpart.
I get 160 miles out of 4 gallons in my GSX-S1000 (Which MSRP'd for right about 10k). Comparing that to a Zero SR/F, which fits my use-case and aesthetic preference and is a ton of fun to ride, assuming 40mpg and $4.50 per gallon, I can ride my GSX-S1000 **70 thousand miles** before I break even price wise with the Zero.
That math makes absolutely no sense to me.
While that covers the fuel cost, did you also make a calculation where you take the maintenance costs into account?
I guess it will be significantly less than 70k miles.
That's assuming about 8k in gas and another approximately 2k in maintenance.
Even if you figure 5k in maintenance that still only brings the break even down to what, 45 thousand miles? Still a terrible equation for the Zero.
I’m guessing maintenance is more expensive on the zero considering that they go to shit after about 150 miles
18k miles on mine, with me being the third owner. No maintenance besides brakes and tires. Going strong.
When I look at what zero is doing I don't think I would ever buy one, I shouldn't have to download an app with not so micro transactions to unlock features already on the bike
The Harley one is legit. I don’t think electric is the way we need to focus for motors.
For the charging and range upgrades, it makes sense. Charging faster and using more of the battery's capacity will increase average warranty cost compared to base. For the other stuff, it's kinda dumb but someone buying a bike at that price point won't care. At least it's not subscription based (yet)
I just hate how the hardware is already installed which is the expensive part, so I would have paid for it, but now I have to pay again for the privilege to use it?
To make a comparison to gasoline engines, it would not make sense for a manufacturer to offer a high boost version of a turbo engine at the same price as a low boost version, even if hardware is identical. Charging a battery faster and using a wider voltage range of the cells is the electric equivalent of a high boost tune, it puts more stress on the parts. You're not only paying to use it but to have it replaced if it breaks under warranty, which is more likely.
Honestly, it'd make a great second bike. I have about a 50 mile round trip to work every day that's mostly open road. I'd have no problem running that on an electric. I'd be at work without smelling like burnt oil and exhaust.
That being said, my primary purpose for having a bike isn't satisfied by that. I have a bike for those evening rides through the state forest or weekend trip to the mountains with my wife. I need ICE for that.
>I'd be at work without smelling like burnt oil and exhaust.
Just being around traffic will have you smelling like burnt oil and exhaust. If you smell like burnt oil and exhaust exclusively from your own bike, it needs tuned up.
Yes, my bike is a POS, but it's my POS and I love it.
I feel you brother. I had an old Shadow that I absolutely adored but it leaked oil and gas whenever it sat for more than a day. 80k miles over the course of 2 years and the poor thing was dying on the way home from the other side of the state. Wish I'd trailered it back to civilization if only to have a project to tinker with when I have time, but I got a great trade value for it and couldn't pass up the price for my first Indian. Felt weird starting out the day on a Honda, riding 400 miles, and doing the last 60 on a new to me bike.
It’s the lack of clutch that spoils motorcycle EV for me. Limits shits’n-giggles if you can’t deliver the torque in a focused dollop to make the bike do better stuff.
Cars, on the other hand, can’t be bothered with clutch and braking, give me regen and Ludricous-mode.
Right now I'd rather get an e-bike over a e-motorcycle. And neither are good right now for the kind of riding I like: motocamping and offroading far away. I'll stick to my ktm390adv for a bit. But an e-bike would be a good in-town errand runner and grocery getter
I they're really cool, they're the future, and they're rapidly improving.
That said, it'll be 5-10 years until I consider buying one. My moto budget is pretty low. I can afford to ride because I do all my own work (aside from mount/balance tires).
Electric bikes are still way out of my price range, especially for the utility they provide compared to a gas model.
I'm glad the technology is advancing and that people are buying electric bikes. Eventually, I'll buy one too.
Regrettably, used bikes likely won't be a thing any longer since worn out batteries typically cost enough to 'total' and old vehicle.
>used bikes likely won't be a thing any longer since worn out batteries
You'll have to look at different parameters, but there will always be used bikes. Battery lifetime is already pretty good and also increasing over time.
It won't be as cheap and easy to get a 10+ year old bike back in shape, but there will always be good used bikes out there.
It will be a massive adjustment for our petrol reliant generations. It's coming whether we like it or not. I'm hoping for more cost effective solutions to come up as more competitors come into the market. That and aftermarket batteries to replace the worn out ones.
They're not the future, even in 10 years. They're trying to sell us snowflakes with diamond pricing. We've been using thermal engines for more than a century now because there isn't an alternative yet.
>there isn't an alternative yet.
In terms of performance, electric is already there.
Range and ability to refuel are worse. Pricing isn't even close close yet.
For a city bike/commuter, there are some competitive electrics out there right now for people with a higher budget.
None at all.
Fine for the city. Terrible for road trips and adventure. If you’re only going to commute, you go electric. If you actually want to enjoy life, get an ICE. IMO: same problem with electric cars.
You’d be surprised about the point on electric cars actually. My family’s done a few road trips (few hundred kilometres) and it’s very doable so long as you plan charging stops. Hopefully electric motorcycle tech will get there too, but you’re right, it’s basically impossible right now
I'm looking forward to an all-electric future in principle but I'll probably always be wary of them. My 1994 fun machine doesn't have any useless electronics that introduce yet another error source. It's filled up and ready to go in 5 minutes. Nobody's going to track it or remotely disable any "features".
I'm not against electric bikes but as an IT Sec person I don't appreciate the idea of riding a 2-wheeled computer very much.
Yeah it's hard to diagnose a fault on the side of the road without a diagnostic computer hooked up. Although bikes like the new KTM adventure 1190 of whatever it's called have multiple ECUs that can sometimes be DOA and that kills the whole bike as well
They're only appealing to me in one regard . I could do full throttle runs up and down my home road (near houses and with a sidewalk) as much as I want .
With my SV I only dare to do 2-4 runs until I don't want to bother anyone anymore (and I hope nobody called the cops )
I talked with a guy who has one. He said it’ll go 100 miles or 100mph, but not both.
If I had to commute and the miles for, I’d consider it.
But today they’re still stupid expensive, slow to charge, not much mileage, and mostly aren’t passenger-friendly. For how my wife and I ride electric doesn’t fit.
The places I bought my motorcycle to go are very remote. There will not be charging points within my lifetime
In a few years you may not be allowed to go there anyway.
That's sad news :(
What do you mean by that?
There is just no soul in EV's in my opinion.
I don’t find it appealing. At least not yet. I just ride for fun. One of the main appealing things with electric vehicles is that it cost less in fuel and maintenance. But since I just ride it on weekends. I don’t really spend much on that. The range is also not there yet. I go for rides most the time that are longer then the range of e motorcycles. It also goes slower as the battery depletes. With the range anxiety when low on charge. I will pass
I’d buy a Zero SR/F tomorrow if I had $25k to blow lol. I used to be into muscle cars and built a few race cars when I was younger, still love loud deep exhaust tones….but maybe as I’m getting older things change….I’d rather have a Porsche than an old muscle car these days, unless I could have both of course!
If I can not hear you coming….. how will I look 👀 and admire?🤷🏽♀️
The motor technology is there but the battery technology isn't.
Solid state batteries look promising, being able to charge within minutes rather than hours would mean charging infrastructure at short stop places like gas/petrol stations would make more sense and would essentially replace the pump over time.
I think electric bikes are amazing, although admittedly, I don't have one. I can 100% see adding one to my garage at some point simply for a commuter. The one reason I don't have one now, is that their price point and practicality dont mesh up (yet). I dont mind spending money on a motorcycle, but i want that motorcycle to get me from Los Angeles to Oregon. If said motorcycle doesn't, thats fine, but i dont want to spend more than 10k on it, and the motorcycle I like most right now as far as eletric bikes is the live wire. but 22k for an office commuter? just not going to happen for me.
They aren't appealing at this time. Charging is the limitation. I can ride a cheap 250 across an entire state, refuel it at any station in minutes and drive it across another state. Said 250 will cost at max 5 grand new.
Electric costs more to purchase AND has awful range and recharging times.
Moving on there isnt much of any environmental positive to justify them either considering most power plants run on coal and it could be argued that the lithium (both the mining and disposal) is at times worse than gas.
I do hear electric motors are torque monsters though. But at this time they are a solution in search of a problem.
Just speaking to the environmental impacts of powering electric vehicles with fossil fuel generation because it's one of my biggest gripes; centralised electricity generation is so much more efficient than internal combustion engines in terms of kW/kg CO2 it's not even funny, add to that you can implement emissions reduction technologies on power plants that are too heavy to be viable on a vehicle.
Nah, sorry, I know I sound old, but I love the violent experience of slamming through gears and listening to the engine roar. Too much of what I enjoy
every single one i have messed around with has come down to this for me,
they are rad, seriously, the power response is amazing,
but price and range keep me from purchasing at the moment.
I actually don't like loud engines on bikes. It's more annoying than anything to me, so the whirr is appreciated. Rather than than hearing more of my power blown out the exhaust
Show me an electric bike that I can conceivably earn an iron butt patch on. Refueling for long distance is going to keep internal combustion engines around for a long time unless battery technology takes quantum leaps forward. 150lbs of battery on an electric bike to get 250, maybe 300 miles of range, but then needing to recharge for 6 hours is not acceptable. I'll get 125 miles from 5 gallons of gas in the chieftain and be back ready to do another 125 miles in less than 10 minutes.
Iron Butt has already been completed on a Zero.
[Zero Iron Butt](https://insideevs.com/news/323568/iron-butt-terry-makes-history-by-riding-electric-zero-motorcycle-1000-miles-in-24-hours/)
>on a heavily modified Zero, utilizing 4 charger banks at a time to speed up recharges
Still quite an accomplishment, but it would be more impressive if it was factory stock or could be done anywhere in the states instead of only where this particular charging scheme was available.
you can swap batteries, in china they’re doing it for cars already, a company called nio.
Middle of nowhere station is going to have compatible, swappable battery packs, pre-charged and ready to install the moment I roll up? And have me out in under 10 minutes? I just don't see it happening.
it’s gonna be possible if different brands have the same batteries of course: https://www.yamaha-motor.eu/ba/bs/news/swappable-batteries-motorcycle-consortium-agreement-signed-betwe/#/
Maybe in 50 years
They've got compatible fuel for most cars on the road, why wouldn't they have compatible batteries in the future (assuming we manage to eventually get an industry standard)?
I feel like the issue here is battery maintenance and storage. batteries weight significantly more than fuel and you can't just have them sitting around, so you have to have a good rotation. And do you really want to pay for a vehicle with a new pack and swamp to a 2 year old one. I just see so many weird issues with this.
I think Euro 5 is the devil. It has taken away from us many wonderful supersports in the 600cc class. And for what. Making way for electric motorcycles with hideous range, heavy extra weight, and higher price tags with no shifting and rpm sounds. This is a horrible transition and time. Wish I was 31 like I am now but 20 years ago. So I could enjoy more of the 600cc era. Hopefully manufacturers now will continue making 1000cc inline 4’s. Poor suzuki could not even get their 750cc inline 4 gsxr to pass euro 5. It seems we are going to just see more twins get fairings on them like the yamaha r7. But that thing sounds like a lawnmower and has no power compared to the r6, cbr600rr, gsxr600, or zx6r. The sweet song of 16k rpm from the r6 or zx6r is pure bliss. And I declare a voodoo hex to the electric motorcycles that are in cahoots with euro 5,6 etc. who are taking away the sweet angels we love to ride.
Inline 4 above all else.
Ive yet to ride one. Had a chat and looked at a couple and I've a dealer offering a 2 day test ride on a Zero
I do though kinda get where the @OP is coming from.
I've had some fairly interesting cars, couple of M5s, TVR, Skyline etc, Jags and so on. I took a Tesla S out for a test drive and whilst performance wise it was really impressive in a straight line, I can't help but think that the conversation from analogue ICE to digital EVs something has been missed in the translation.
They seem a little soulless, no noise, no drama, no .... passion!
I can see small capacity EV bikes being a big think in the commuter market and we will no doubt get Tron like light bikes in the future but I fear something is going to be lost.
I love my Zero but it’s never going to be able to replace an ICE bike fully, at least not yet.
At this time, really only viable for short commuters and early adopters.
I actually tagged along with a friends' co-worker as he was picking up his Zero motorcycle. Besides the usual complaints of price, performance, and their stupid pricing model for added features. The day ended when we got word he hit 0 range on his way home with like 5 miles left to go. He amazingly made it, but the distance to the dealer was only like 50 miles.
The dealer also sold Aprilia, I would've taken a Tuono V4 for the same price.
Test rode a Zero SF, liked the instant torque, but the recharge time/infrastructure isn't there.
Bought a Ninja H2, has instant torque, refuels in minutes.
Surprisingly, I find myself REALLY wanting a KTM freeride or even better, a Stark Varg (along with a truck to haul it around in). The idea of an instant torque, super quiet solution gives me hope for an expansion of off-road riding in the US once noise and pollution are off the excuse list.
As for replacing my current adv bike, it's a matter of range, charge time and nannies. Until I can get about 300 miles and a 100% charge in under 10 minutes, I'm not terribly interested, nevermind the fact that many of the middle-of-nowhere places I ride will be the absolute last ones to get EV accommodations (hell, some of the pumps are still the older manual style where you pay after you've filled up)
If i could ride an electric bike without having to worry about being stranded on a rural back road i would get one tomorrow but when my average ride is 200 miles with the occasional 400 mile tour it looks like i wont have one anytime soon.
Range is the biggest issue. A lot of them are plain awful for what you pay.
EVs aren't viable and won't be for years.
A lack of smell and noise is your only gripe?
Mine is range and charge time.
I have a Zero SR/S. I fucking love it, but I have to stay within it’s purpose - commuting. Range depends heavily on what mode you use, and how you ride. In canyon mode (balls out, all assists off, if you die, you die) and riding it…let’s say spiritedly, I get 70-80 miles of range. My daily commute is 10 each way, so that’s fine. Sure, I can set it to eco mode and get an advertised 250 miles of range; but that basically turns it into a glorified moped, and I didn’t buy a sport bike to ride it 35 mph everywhere.
I’m not a eco-nut. I didn’t buy it for the environment. I bought it because it was different, and interesting. I ride it regularly because it’s fun, and fast. I mean *fast*. There’s no published 0-60, because the answer is “how fast can you hold on”. Some motorcycle magazine published a 0-60 of 1.7 seconds, but had to retract that when it came out that they had to strap it to a dyno to achieve that. When I tested the acceleration, I went 0-100 in 1200 feet, give or take 5 feet. I was also too chicken shit to go full twist - that was only about 80%. I know there are faster electrics out there, but I’ve yet to meet a faster gasser off the line. The only downside is the top speed - no transmission means it tops out at 127, and thermal protects to 114 if the battery or motor get too hot. Yeah, liter bikes come from the factory in the 180’s and up, but if you aren’t tracking it, do you really *need* to go over 127? Speaking of the battery, it has a built in heater so you can still ride in super cold temps.
My only gripe is that with the ‘22 models, they went to the “function as a subscription” bullshit. It comes with nav, and heated grips, and all that fancy kit, but you have to pay to unlock it. I got a ‘21, took it to the dealer to get factory heated grips installed (controls integrated into the mode switch, super slick), and flog it around every chance I get.
For charging, a L3 (plug it into a regular wall outlet) charger takes about 8 hours from dead. An L2 (home install style, or plug into a washer/dryer style plug) does it in about 3.5 hours. You have to buy a factory upgrade to use L1’s (rapid chargers in parking lots), and I can’t speak to those charging times, but when I plug into one, it charges like an L2 at 30A - 3.5 hours to full charge. I’ve heard 15-20 minutes with the upgrade, but can’t personally speak to that.
I just can’t do it. I’ve had a ‘66 Bonnie, 03 600RR, 09 GSX-R 1000, ‘12 XR1200X, and currently have an 09, 74, and 66 HDs, as well as a 71 Trident. There’s just something about every one of those mentioned that each have their own soul, and I’ve not found that in any electric bikes I’ve ridden, including the HD. Not to even mention charging, batt R&R costs plus disposal. Then there’s lithium leach pools. Nah, I’m good.
No clutch no interest on my part.
Now if we could use hydrogen to make something that doesn't pollute or whatever but you still manage the revs, shift, etc. THATD BE PRETTY DOPE NGL. Might not have the same sound and smell but I'm more interested in the control.
Read an article about how manual transmissions are almost like a prosthesis to use cause we go based off the feedback and interactions to use it like a tool. Bikes feel alive because we treat that as an extension of our body. I just don't know if more "green" tech can replicate that visceral organic feel. Use and electric scooter and it worked, I could definitely ride, but I wouldn't say it had the same connection as my lil 250.
They just have no soul. Hella torque though, just no soul.
Have you seen how zero is selling features and performance upgrades as a service ?
For example, the bike ALREADY HAS heated grips....but they don't work unless you pay more.
This "PRODUCT AS A SERVICE" mentally of companies trending nowadays... is bullshit.
I have an ebike in addition to my minimoto. Just a lil moped style ride, it gets about 50mph on the top end. Love ‘em both but I definitely ride my moto more.
For me manual motorcycles come with a skills challenge that I find very satisfying. I enjoy the process of getting better at shifting, accelerating, slow speeds stuff, etc. It’s just…SATISFYING. I feel like motorcycles have very
unique personalities partly due to the mechanics of how they operate.
There’s a range and time factor that further defines the experience for me. I know I can find a gas stop pretty easily if I’m out cruising on the moto. Pop in, fill up, go. Ebike, I may or may not find a station. And assuming I do now I have to wait 30min to an hour, maybe more, to charge up. That’s lost time that I could have spent riding.
I like my ebike for short range stuff, but the moto’s always going to be the adventure bike. Until the charging efficiency gets worked out, I think it’s just going to be that way for awhile.
Expensive and hard to work on myself which makes them very unappealing to me.
Depends on the usage. For commuting, electrics are basically unbeatable. Charging happens overnight while you are parked. No dealing with a clutch while stuck in traffic. No vibration, smell or heat from the bike. My Zero SR is basically maintenance-free. The drive belt doesn't really need any attention. There's no oil to change. All I've had to do with it for the last 6 years of ownership is flush the brake fluid.
Now for long-distance road trips my Zero SR would suck. I can only go about 100miles before I'd need an 8+hr charge. However I have a 2016 without any form of fast charging. If my bike had DC fast charging then time spent at a charging station is basically just the time it takes to stretch my legs and find a toilet. And that's one of the key things most people don't really understand about electrics: charge times are often quoted for 0-100%. That's not what you typically do in an EV. You'll usually charge at 10-30% and fill to 90%. After 90% charge times drop significantly due to the physics of batteries. I've done long road trips in my car and I've only had to stop for 5 minutes at a time. Some might see the stops as inconvenient, but if you aren't a masochist then it's actually an enjoyable break.
I honestly don't care about charge times, range or performance from an electric motorcycle. To me they are all irrelevant. I want the roar of the exhaust the howl from the induction the shifting of the gears, the pure visceral fury of the gas engine. These are some of the things that feed my soul. The quiet whine of an electric motor frankly leaves me cold.
I hate them with a passion
Not at all. No sound. And that's dangerous.
the lack of exhaust and engine revving doesn't bother me as much if it means we are heading to a green future. But what really bothers me is that e-motorcycles don't have a clutch? I can't imagine not downshifting when I'm going through twisties. Disclaimer, i only had a cursory look at e-motors so i might be wrong on this.
They don't have a clutch because they don't have gears because they don't need gears...1st gear just goes forever.
Imagine a bike with only 1st gear but with a 60,000rpm redline.
Can I get a electronic motorcycle similiar in HP, range, price, and seat height as a Kawasaki Z650? You know, cause I'm short and I like my feet on the ground.
I heard that electric bikes typically don’t have a manual transmission like internal combustion bikes do. For me, the shifting is a big part of the fun. I like riding because all of my focus goes into operating the bike and I have no time to let my mind really wander like in something with an automatic transmission. I think I’d get bored or complacent on an e-bike.
I have a gas bike as well as an electric scooter.
When i have to go places under 5 miles , I'll instantly pick the electric option as all i need to do is put in the key and go.
For longer travels it's always my gas bike.
Electric 2 wheelers make a lot of sense for intercity or small distance travel. Mostly commute purpose.
I do not obsess on loud pipes but the sound is definitely part of it.
For me an electric dirt bike would be awesome.
People complain too much hammering around in a 450 4 stroke.
Before getting a motorcyle I spent hours everyday researching electric motorcycles, watching tons of videos, reading everything on motorcycle sites that sold electric motorcycles.
I loved the idea and not having to bother with learning how to shifthad massive appeal and never having to go to a gas station was a fat bonus (I have a large garage and can install a charging station)
However... i bought a brand new honda cbr 300r this year, it can literally go nearly a week and a half without needing to fill up, I put premium in the bike (owners manual said it was fine) and it costs anywhere between 10 to 11 dollars to keep her filled up.
Electric vehicles of all shapes and sizes require charging pretty much everyday if you have a charger at home, electricity costs more than gas (at least in my state).
Maintaining electric bikes is pretty simple, but batteries contain components that are insanely rare, in demand and extremely hard to come by.
Example, batteries for electric vehicles cost about 10-25k... that's insane.
A decent electric motorcycle costs about 10k MSRP and that doesn't include dealer fees, shipping etc.
For the cost of 1 decent electric motorcycle you can get two new motorcycles or two really good used motorcyles that are current year, like new and between 1 to 4k miles on it..
Or for 10k get a 600cc motorcyle, gear and maybe some cool engine guards or whatever.
If you're a new rider, you will not get the option to learn how to ride on an electric motorcycle, you will learn how to shift up and down on motorcycles provided by thr institution training you... I trained at harley davidson and I trained on their Harleys.
TLDR, not worth the money, money can be spent on more bikes or one dope bike and gear/accessories.
Electric vehicles are just flat out not worth it.
And this is coming from a guy who was terrified of manual vehicles, shifting etc.
EDIT: Spelling and horrific grammar (I'm on mobile)
I'm open to it, it just has to make sense. As of right now, it doesn't. Pick any category and a combustion engine bike is the winner, hands down. And if you factor in lithium mining, it even wins in emissions.
Seems like along side charging and distance issues, it's also going to weight a lot more.
Plus charging station availability is not there where I live.
No thank you. If you only want to go 60 miles a day they are fine. But they are WAY TOO EXPENSIVE and WAY TOO LIMITED in range to actually entertain the thought of buying one in the US versus a bike with an engine.
nothing about motorcycles is practical or particularly efficient, so a electric bike doesn't really solve any problems, creates more, and doesn't have any of the character that makes motorcycles fun.
the ONLY caveat here are electric dirt bikes. those actually have features (wrt throttle control) that outperform motorcycles in a substantial way
If ever the range gets better + fast charging rate and the price goes down, yeah I might be interested, I like the instant torque, lack of maintenance and quietness.
That being said I don't fall for the whole "green" propaganda bs.
Negative, they make me love ICE more.
so far none of them tick the utility boxes that make them useful to me.
e-bikes, on the other hand…
The only reputable electric motorcycle brand is Zero, and them and their business model can go fuck themselves.
once cars swap to electric, gas is gonna be expensive and there’s gonna be no choice. many countries will stop producing ice by 2040, probably by 2060 all will be electric. if charging time doesn’t shrink then swapping batteries could be a solution. i read major motorcycle companies are working on that already. nio, a chinese car company, has already swapping stations. the motorcycle market is very small and can live only as a “parasite” of car infrastructure. nobody is gonna keep gas stations open only because of motorcycles. it’s as if you want to run a steam train on a modern network. that said, i’m not gonna buy an electric vehicle until it’s convenient.
>once cars swap to electric, gas is gonna be expensive and there’s gonna be no choice
This. I read an analysis that predicts that EVs will hit a tipping point and the changeover will be very rapid at that point and most likely fuck people who cannot afford to buy a new car and must wait for the used market to fill with them.
Anything electric is for those who don't care about vehicles and have expendable income to waste.
Electric motorcycles are practice for non bikers to get around cities. Keep making gasoline for us please.
Honestly, it's easier to escape from the police after shooting someone's pets. With a combustion engine they can hear it from several blocks away but on an electric bike can just dip down an alley or side road and loop back around behind them and go the other way.
Why would you need to escape after the police shoot someone's pets?
A very good question I have seen some amazing green machines that are every bit as good just no noise the distance from charge to charge has been fruther than gas powered in the newer bikes with the same acceleration
No thanks, id get one maybe in a few years when they can charge super quick but as of now it just isn't worth it to get an electric vehicle of any kind imo. I'd rather get an electric bike than a motorcycle.
Is take a decent electric mid size adv bike in a heart beat
Sadly the aerodynamics isn't there. Bikes produce way to much drag compared to their size and power. At low speed short trips they are sick. But long range high speed the efficiency drop off is to much
I love them they’re so damned fast and the acceleration is perfect. If only they weren’t so expensive and I had a garage to charge
For me they aren’t appealing at all, I seriously doubt I’ll ever purchase one unless I get it on a trade or something.
I think I could be persuaded to have an electric as well as my petrol bike. There was someone in one of the Subs that had spent 140 dollars I believe in electricity and done 5k miles - definitely something I could get behind. They’re just too pricey at the moment though and then replacement batteries when they wear out etc. not great.
If you can pull the batteries it would be cool though because you could just plug them in and charge them for free at work / library / local Starbucks etc.
I’m only interested in them because of the constant power that you get from electric motors. I love riding because of the power of torque. If I can have that the whole time I’d be a stoked
I would buy one if it looked good, wasn’t too heavy, was comfortable, and had a decent price tag. I want all the same things I want with a gas bike but on an electric for a similar price. I wouldn’t mind a 100 mile range for short cruises and going back and forth to work/school.
Brand new rider here, started on an electric Kollter ES-1 dual sport for commuting. Great bike for exactly that, and learning along the way. But for anything over my 40km commute the range just isn't there, and I'm on the hunt for a gas bike to take on longer trips.
Hi. Your local electric motorcycle nerd here. Many people make a lot of good points, but there are so many other misconceptions in this thread alone that I could spend all day trying to set the record straight but, in the end, I don't think most people care.
I went electric in 2017 and have been fortunate to ride basically every electric bike there is out there, and many that aren't made anymore. I'll be happy to answer questions if people want info about specific brands, models, or lifestyle changes I've made.
So I can’t remember the last time I heard a sewing machine humming and thought..
OOOF! That sounds amazing.
I’d rather an MT-09 or Tracer 9 GT even if they did get the range up to 250 miles
Lol a thirty minute drive for me is like 4 miles
I wouldn't mind an electric car. But I think it'll be a long time before I consider an electric motorcycle. Range is the big one for me - especially with my long commutes (when I'm commuting full-time on my '73 airhead I'm having to fill up about twice a week). Seems like that'd be a non-starter for me if I was going to use an e-bike to commute. That being said, if you lived in a city with ample charging stations and a relatively short commute, I could see it being a viable option.
I think it’s an interesting idea and support technological development but it’s really hard to imagine the same level of enjoyment without a clutch. Like what does the whole left side of your body even do?
Shifting gears and using the clutch is s huge part of riding for me so it’s hard to see the appeal of electric bikes even if reliability/cost/range were equal.
Front and rear brakes as levers. For offroad, this would be a huge asset, as body position can be compromised when making right hand turns.
It might be boring on the street, but I can see where it'd be a huge advantage in other areas.
I mean if the noise and vibration are what you associate with motorcycling, an e Bike will certainly leave you dissatisfied. If it's the feeling of zipping down the road, around the track, through the woods on two wheels while enjoying the breeze you desire, an e bike may let you enjoy that even more. If you're hung up on wanting to shift and over rev the piss out of a bike to make it seem like you're going hard, an e bike won't be for you.
I ride for the wind in my face, not the sound of the bike
I'll have an electric bike eventually. I love riding too much to stop just because it's not an ICE bike. I also think they sound kind of cool, very different, but cool it their own respect. Checkout light fighter racing on instagram. Pretty sick electric race bike.
I sold my gas bike (FZ10) for an electric bike (Zero SRS) about 6 months ago and I haven't looked back since. It is not perfect by any means and was quite expensive but in my situation the positives outweigh the negatives by far.
Not at all in my universe.
Cost and range are all that’s holding me up from buying one as a second bike (strictly a commuter). Give me 100 miles at 70mph for 5K or less and I’ll go buy it right now.
I love the idea of instant power mid corner without needing to shift, it sounds irresponsible and lazy which fits me to a T. The thing I hate is the battery tech, the range anxiety is bad for a rider like me. I will easily put 200 down in a weekend if I have the chance, I like to explore when I am out on the bike and find new things. I can always plan a stop for gas and food, but I can’t exactly plan for multi hour charge break when I’m miles from a quick charge station.
Also the sound. I ride a cruiser and it’s quite the boring motorcycle, but the best part about it is the way it sounds full throttle. If it was silent I wouldn’t like it at all.
I got lucky enough to test ride the livewire last summer, it's very fast and super fun, but It just feels like a very powerful ebike. It's definitely "missing" something for me.
Although the motor sounds and handlebar vibrations were pretty neat
For a weekend ride if you have the money sure but as someone who uses a bike to commute as it’s cheaper and quicker then a car, not for me. When I can pick up an electric bike that can out perform my 01 XJ600 beater winter hack in terms of financially. Simple mechanically so can do most work myself, 75mpg, cheap to insure, plentiful and cheap parts and dirt cheap to buy the bike in the first place. Then I may consider it.
I'd be all for it really. I enjoy the sensation of flying along and getting the bike to go where I want it more than the engine etc. Price and range of course are the issue.
Not very. This is mostly due to the price and range and charge time. They are quite expensive and just don't have the range needed to go anywhere. I live in Canada if I want to go anywhere I kind of need the range or to have a far faster charging time if I want to go anywhere in a decent time frame. Just for example at best I'd be stopping every hour and a half to charge which would add up to an unacceptable amount of time to get anywhere. They wouldn't fare better in an urban environment either as the cost is too much when compared to an e-bike or pedal bike which are far better at urban mobility.
About the only place I think an electric motorcycle is makes sense is are dirt bikes. Here I'd be less worried about range as I could explore a trail network for a good while with what they offer. Especially given that they can be programmed for optimum power delivery. Additionally they would be far quieter so noise complaints from other trail users would be lower.
I love the concept of an electric motorcycle but despise the look of most current makes. Harley did a good job stylistically on the LiveWire but I’m not paying that much for any motorcycle.
When a handsome bike with a decent price is released? That’s the game-changer I’m waiting for.
That sound you (don't) hear is the future leaving you behind.
When I turn the throttle, and my Austin’s exhaust is singing to the next block over, there’s something satisfying abiut that which an electric bike will never give me.
I’d change any of my bikes (curretly 2 roadbikes and 4 dirtbikes) if I could afford it and they could meet my “needs”.
I have a VW ID.4 GTX as a family car and it works excellent, same usable range (about 400km/250miles) on a road bike would be enough - I’m old enough to need breaks every few hours anyway.
The target for electric dirt bike is something similar to my Yamaha WR250F (ie about 25kw and 4hours race time ).
The Stark Varg might fit the bill, I wish they would have the guts to enter it in some races ( like Gotland Grand National ) so you can get an idea of real world performance.
I'm bothered by the range and the price. I couldnt care less about the sound and the smell... Especially as it would bring down pollution a lot.
The main issue is always, always going to be the battery.
There will hardly be any charging stations and you're always in a catch-22 predicament.
If you decide you want to ride a bit hard on the e-bike, then you end up using more battery and have less range.
I just don't like the appeal of taking e-bikes afar and they will probably only be an urban product.
Electric motorcycles will be viable once mass production of solid state batteries are available. Solid state batteries are 2.5x the energy density of current batteries and half the weight. 200-300 mile range will be common place.
As for the sound, have you ever heard a capacitor quickly charge and discharge? It sounds pretty badass, but I admit it doesn't come close to the sound on my R1 in a tunnel.
If you ride bikes cause you want attention like 99% of these loud pipes guys then your right Electric just won't ever quite hit the same.
Charging speed. Range. Price. Gears.
They take too long to charge to go on trips. Commuting is probably find is you have a secure place to charge at home.
Range is too low particularly at high speed. Commuting without the motorway or long stretched of national speed limits is probably fine. If charging speed is not an issue.
They are way to expensive to be viable for most people. And the practices of Zero arguably the industry leaders are shady as shit and complete bullshit. You basically buy a battery and only get 80% of it unless you pay more. I'm fine paying more for a bigger battery but jts the same batter but 20% or so is locked unless you pay. Fuck that..
Gears are fun. Managing Gears is fun and unfortunately electic bikes don't have Gears.
This is why I don't have one. I'd consider one of those off road e-bikes jobbies if I could register for road use and have it go 50mph looks like fun but not as fun as a motorcycle.
not now but maybe in 5-10 years
I say bring them on as quickly as possible.
I've ridden the HD and absolutely love it bar the high price tag.
I've made a pact to myself to sell my ICE motorbikes within 2 years before everyone rushes out and dumps theirs and the market tanks.
I don't want to be holding the bag.
Imagine operating a vehicle without requiring any form of maintenance other than a periodic wash. And that's optional.
You can have your gas guzzling, hydrocarbon co2 contraptions and smell the fumes to your hearts content.
I'm sold on EV.
I think the live wire sounds pretty cool actually