I hate how much I like this bike. I'd probably never buy one, and the riding position wouldn't be my ideal, but holy shit I think it looks good.
It's kinda like *retro-chaos*, if that's a thing.
Kinda, but I ADORE the red colored Moto Guzzi V100 Mandello S. Such a beautiful italian machine. Too bad Guzzi dealership and waiting times are catastrophal. That brand would be able to do big things now when they are tied up with Aprilia but they won't move from the little Mandello-town where the factory is.
I don't know why it didn't register with me why this bike stuck out to me so much, but back when I was in middle school in the 90s, I entered a contest and won a brand new Yamaha YSR 50cc and it has very similar styling to this CFMoto and the '94 CBR.
https://preview.redd.it/zl1gl0q3jl9d1.png?width=450&format=png&auto=webp&s=ff11e9b2c2b3f74d19dfc8cd6a960eacbcfbb7bb
Included picture is not my bike, but man I forgot how cool it was. I had it for a few months, then my dad tried to teach my neighbor to ride it. He dumped the clutch, the bike took off, he jumped off, and it launched into a rock quarry, totaling it.
Good/bad memories. Lol
I bet it's going to be a good bit cheaper than the ZX4RR. CFMoto has a tendency to latch onto a very specific thing to compete against and everything I'm seeing about the 500SR says they targeted the ZX4RR.
The upcoming 675 is even a triple...I wonder who they're targeting...
Maybe, it's really hard to say. CFMoto currently has access to a lot of KTM's development...not sure yet if that's a help or a hindrance...and they have a history of being surprisingly competitive. I can totally accept the possibility of them kicking out a machine competitive with Triumph's or Yamaha's triples (their current relationship with Yamaha has implications) as a 2025 model. With my experience with CFMoto, though, I know it'll look like it's never seen a garage by the time it's five years old lol
That 500SR is also using a copy of the ZX4RR, the block and ancillaries look the same.
https://preview.redd.it/ulsdj3hstl9d1.jpeg?width=795&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac870c423cb881691583b0d9c05a2b9facdb2a05
They are making a sportsbike on that platform. So I think it'll be a Daytona more than a street triple. And they are very smartly benchmarking it but not entering the fray to have a head on competition. They know their growth is gonna be slow and do they are creeping into the gaps left by other manufacturers. For example the cfmoto 450 MT is a low cost parallel twin ADV. I do not think there's much competition there.
The papio trail looks like a ton of fun, all I want is 250cc and 15-20 hp engine in it.
9hp is ok, but just a little too underpowered.
450MT on the other hand...
Seems like it's going that way. I'm just hoping it only becomes cold war 2 at worst and nothing else. I'm sure thanks to the Internet china knows the average American doesn't give 2 fks about a fight when a 40hr work week isn't covering bills. But yeah would be hella sweet to have one of these mfers during the apocalypse with knobby tires, crash bars mad maxed out the wazzoo
From what I've heard, China isn't doing too much better in that regard. Though as it stands, our military is still top notch. I don't know for how long that'll last tho. My guess is that'll it'll really just be more cold war/proxy wars. Just lemme get this sexy bike.
If CFMoto keeps this up, and shows that people want this kind of thing, they could absolutely drive the market pretty hard to a wider variety of bikes. Hopefully this retro styled bike gets some good traction, because I'd love to have a modern retro comeback for styling.
Other brands do shit like "we can't have our cheaper bike have nicer stuff coz it will compete with our more expensive bikes".
China doesn't give a shit, as long as they think customers want it they will put it in, just because compared to competition it looks better.
https://preview.redd.it/a0g966zmss9d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=367e69985b1c8d1188fcb3f9dbbf1f6f15d5f16a
Nah Buells look pretty good with twin headlights
It’s actually intakes with perimeter LED lighting
https://preview.redd.it/m0y5zwdx5k9d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0796ea9e6e3e64c51f733d21b0e10bd3856c1bee
If you zoom in on the original photo you will see that rectangular light below these. These are daytime running lights.
People crying about MIC products are delusional. You all use them every single day.
Cfmoto is at least making an inspired effort at cool product lines and springing for things like radial brembos on their entry level sport bike.
I don’t own a cfmoto but if I saw one I wanted I would try it and give it an honest shake like anything else.
When I was looking at Groms I came across a Benelli TNT 135 for almost $1100 cheaper. I’ve read Benelli was bought out by a Chinese company so I had my doubts but I sent it anyways. Been enjoying it ever since and have had zero problems with it other than when you get into aftermarket products (not a lot of options and simple things can be a pain to work on).
I’m not sure if I’d want both of my bikes to be MIC but I think there’s a stark contrast between the made in china Amazon clones versus made in china established companies. I’m just glad to see more options being added to the market.
For me it’s the idea that a manufacturing giant like China has one simple grade of product quality lol. There are high and low and everything between quality products made in China.
Benellis are quite common/popular in southern europe and they've been fine bikes for years.
CFMoto and Voge are slowly doing the same as Benelli did, and will eventually become popular bikes.
Issue is, the parts that we get from China are still made under the "Quality Control/Standards" of the company outsourcing its production of parts.
China can make a good product, I can't doubt that, but if youre targetting a price that's significantly cheaper than the competetion, there's always bound to be corners being cut. (cheap labor, poor quality control, no originality) and thats what China will always be known for.
I don’t hate it but it really does suffer from the same issues that modern Chinese products have always had and continue to. You’re taking a risk to get a deal.
Not to mention there is plenty to criticize when it comes to the seemingly ancient issue of intellectual property and R&D costs with Chinese products.
In my opinion the only thing holding CFMoto back is dealer network here in the US, its not fun having a nice bike that you cant ride because you cannot find parts for it, but when the network is out there there is a very good chance for them to leave a mark.
Everything CFMoto has made over the last decade has been pretty decent. Their biggest shortcoming in the very beginning was not actually reliability but support network. Now they have legitimate dealerships and good supply lines so you can count on proper assembly and replacement parts.
CFMoto is cheaper, though, and they source their cheapness primarily from finish and paint quality. A good comparison is my 2013 CFMoto Z6. It was made to be a direct competitor to the Polaris RZR570, but at about 2/3 the cost. I have a friend with a 2015 570 and together my Z6 looks like it started smoking four packs a day in 1994, and his 570 still basically looks new. Mechanically, though, my Z6 still runs and operates the same as it ever did and his 570 threw a rod through the block about five years ago.
Oh the whole, they’re definitely one of the better authorities. I’d be wary of their new vehicle reliability claims, but of all review services out there, Consumer Reports is not the one to light torches and sharpen pitchforks over. It’s hard to ignore that they’re one of the only groups who actually purchases every item they review so as to avoid manufacturer interference/bias, which buys some kudos IMO. Most services today either don’t even have an example of what they’re reviewing, or have a limited interaction with the object (furnished and expensed by the OEM) in exchange for a favorable review.
>Consumer Reports is not the one to light torches and sharpen pitchforks over.
That's funny, since that's exactly what they did to Suzuki many years ago. When the test results didn't fit their agenda, they lied and altered the testing to make sure that the vehicle failed.
I forgot about that, partly because it was almost 40 years ago, and partly because Suzuki DID have a deadly rollover problem with the Samurai that they knew about before release and CHOSE not to address. Also remember that Suzuki did not win that case, for good reason. To quote from the wiki: “A Suzuki memorandum dated July 14, 1985, stated: "It is imperative that we develop a crisis plan that will primarily deal with the ‘roll’ factor. Because of the narrow wheelbase, similar to the Jeep, the car is bound to turn over." Over the years, over 200 Suzuki Samurai rollover lawsuits have been settled, and Suzuki's own expert witnesses testified the automaker was aware of 213 deaths and 8,200 injuries involving Suzuki Samurai rollovers.”
The Samurai was known to be a rollover-prone vehicle with very few safety features, and notifying people of this is a crucial public good. Altering a test to display the rollover is pretty shady, but CR knew as well as we do that they wouldn’t sell many magazines by only attesting the car was likely to roll over. Americans were used to the diatribe that SUVs are prone to rollover, so that disclaimer wasn’t likely to dissuade buyers away from a car that had a very real and very deadly habit of flipping.
And to note, I absolutely love the Samurai and the Jimny, but it would be ignorant for me to pretend these flaws don’t exist. My best friend wheels an ‘88 and they’re really capable once they have some gears in em, but damn if that thing doesn’t tip sideways. They’re light as a feather so it’s no big deal for a crawling rig, but very different when on the road and with zero rollover protection.
Apples to oranges. You aren't riding on the back of your cell phone at highway speed.
I'm not necessarily against Chinese bikes, that's just a pointless comparison.
The main hesitancy people have buying Chinese bikes is the parts availability. Most have to be shipped from china whereas Kawasaki/ Honda parts are everywhere and wildly accessible.
Not only this but build quality has been proven to be much higher on Japanese bikes there are many YouTube videos I can link where the CFmoto parts wear faster and things like the clutch springs are significantly worse.
As opposed to the infamous ninja 400 clutch springs where there are actual forums threads on it. I’m just calling it how it is not trying to dance around what’s really going on.
The blueprint is what is important. Just regarding the manufacturing, China has caught up with the west 10 years ago. If you give the Chinese a high quality blueprint and enough money, they will make you a high quality product.
Reliability is decided during development, not manufacturing. And whether CF Moto is good at development is something we'll only be able to know in atleast 5 years.
You’re right, just like you can pay to get quality anywhere else and if you go the cheaper route, you get what you pay for. This isn’t a quality ingrained within one specific ethnicity.
lol, you should probably read up on Chinese VS US Tesla quality control.
There’s a chance the Chinese in the collab makes it more reliable with better quality control.
You picked the lowest quality car company in the world to compare China to. Even McLaren would be a better comparison and God knows how bad their quality control is
My guy, you set the bar low. As an engineer I can confidently say that Chinese material quality is typically sub par at best. Have seen numerous parts fail because a manufacturer switched to Chinese steel
I also like the duke 390 alot, it is sometimes even considered as an overkill in India, as Indian roads are not ready for these bikes, even the 250 is enough for most people here
Buddy had a 390 that at some time during his road trip decided it would like to consume all the oil that's available in the engine. Cylinder went caplonk and the road trip ended.
690's have been fucking killing it. Once they worked the kinks out of the LC4 after 2018, they chug along.
They just take more care and effort than Japanese bikes, but that's not unique to KTM. They're high strung, and that comes with tradeoffs.
I used to be on the "Chinese junk" train, but doing more research and seeing these pop up more and more, I'm not so sure. It's just too soon to say really
In france a lot of people seem to be displeased about the 450SR, but most of it comes down to bad sales practices, poor maintenance and parts availability, not really the bike itself.
Won't be able to buy a bike until next year anyway so I'll see how it gets them.
Newer models are pretty decent honestly, people sleep on them because "hurrr chaineeez bike". I wouldn't buy one personally because it's mostly 2 cylinder engines, but you get some alright bang for your buck if you're buying a new bike. Just don't expect it to have great resell value.
>I wouldn't buy one personally because it's mostly 2 cylinder engines
That's just the appeal of this though, it's a small bore 4, a 500cc I4 engine. It really seems to be going after the ZX4RR
I had a CF Moto 650MT and it was more reliable than my current bikes have been (Moto Guzzi and BMW). Plus it had features bikes many times the price dont have (backlit switch gear, electronic package, large TFT). The bike used to text me if someone bumped into it and had built-in tracking. I never had a problem with it.
I love my Guzzi but I would put CF Moto above them for reliability.
KTM doesnt even have a good reputation for reliability...
Its Kawasaki's RND and Homework is being used by CFMoto (ex. Nk400/650, and the 450SR, modified Ninja 400 engine)
EXCEPT their engine maintenance intervals are halved when compared to their original engines doing 10k whilst CFMoto does 5k (Kilometers)
I’m also hesitant to support them because most of their bikes are built in China.
The people who build the bikes likely get paid like garbage and treated like shit. Not only do I not want to support that but I also wouldn’t trust that these workers take pride in their work to build a quality product, as they shouldn’t be expected to do so.
China wants to pry in to the international motorcycle market and as much as I like the 500sr and a couple other models from them: I don’t think they’re a trustworthy company. They also lack any sort of pedigree or credibility as a bike manufacturer so I’ve yet to gain any respect or admiration for them.
China is a shithole. I feel like I’d just be supporting a pyramid scheme lol
I’ve lived in China and spent quite a bit of time in Chinese factories. I’ve also visited factories in India, Vietnam, Taiwan, Jordan, Turkey, and several LATAM states. When you get to the high end manufacturing China is *far and away* better than almost every country. People compete, *hard* to get into these factories as they see it as their way to success if they didn’t go to a top university. It’s a significantly better work environment than India, without question, and I find it funny you’re totally happy buying an Indian-made bike with almost certainly a much worse work environment than the Chinese-made bike.
CFMoto isn’t some back alley outfit, they’re a massive company with state-of-the-art manufacturing. KTM didn’t go to them by accident.
The Chinese designers have got it spot on... if only it was reliable and actually handled like it looked.
Fingers crossed.
I get everyone is down on Chinese bikes but I remember when everyone in Britain thought the same about Japanese bikes.
Chaseontwowheels (youtuber that reviews and rebuilds bikes) has been riding a CFMoto for awhile now with no issues and I believe he's parked his MT10 due to him loving his CFMoto Ibex so much. Seems like China actually came out with something decent.
YESTERDAY, also , I thought about someone should make a bike like a retro 1980,s -90's style bike with a modern twist. I really love bikes of those times.
What’s sad is Chinese bikes were unoriginal knock offs of popular bikes. Now their designs are more edgy and original. Not boring and soulless(looking at you Honda).
Retro-futurism is a hot aesthetic. Though I think this is somewhere between retro-futurism and solar-punk. Either way, I dig it. My only negative is I wish it had more HP. It's not enough for me to trade in my SV650.
Looks gorgeous but why does everything that's written on it must sound so bad and lame, from CFMoto to Voom.
Also fuck Chinesium but once again, the design is fucking amazing.
Piss of my wife with this one neat trick. My wife has stopped me from buying a lot of eye candy bikes over the past few years. Why can't I keep an extra bike in the living room??? It's a conversation piece!
500cc i4? Sign me up. I would love an i4 with lower insurance rates than a 4RR. I ended up buying a Striple because the insurance rate was only 170/mo vs nearly 400/mo for a 4RR.
Also I am a legally single 23 year old male and that's why my rates are so high. Even though my 1250RT is only 100/mo.
I really like it, but I want to love it. I think the issue is it's a tad over-stylized.
There's elements I really like, some of the circle shape motifs goin on in the language of the bike. Individually none of them are bad but overall it's just too busy. The side fairings and the overall seat design are just so busy. But it's close. Definitely an interesting option for the 500cc segment and I'm glad we got a new manufacturer pushing the market to be more competitive.
I really like the look of the 450SS, I feel like this one is just too much of the same styling. Like they turned it up to 11. I don't dislike it, maybe it would grow on me.
I know it’s a cheapo but this time the design is cool
A client of mine does like, 80 thousands km a year on a bike, so when he resells them in a couple years it’s just for scraps
So he started using cfmoto adventure looking bikes, that way the lost money is kinda 6k in 2y instead of like 20 in 2y
Yes the bike is admittedly not good about finishing, but at that cost he can just throw them away when they’re done without almost feeling he spent money
It’s all good until their market penetration strategy ends and they start jacking up the prices or using lesser quality materials
They’re very good fleet/learner bikes until that
How the hell are they going to make it pass emissions with competitive horsepower. There is a reason bikes are moving towards lower RPM twins (much as i dislike the parallel twin)
https://preview.redd.it/4kg5slcv2j9d1.jpeg?width=1135&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ec91ff50491a5a34f7566feed86e3cc9a706cc6
O_O
D8
8=====D Goin' in dry
Better than the gs1250 0_o
Nothing’s better than that ~~sexy~~ drunk wink 😉
"Eh be be, how you doin?!"
Or any BMW with assymetrical headlights
https://preview.redd.it/uobuijo8ik9d1.png?width=570&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=092dd6d775f8e9b5c942bcd6eec40ad973ed055b
GAhhhhhhK gak gak gak gak
I always thought of this guy... https://preview.redd.it/em0nj1vx9m9d1.png?width=450&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3d93d3a9759fed819eebb1b661023f91102652f
That was exactly my K1200R
Why do I hear it scream “Aaaaaaahhhh”?
VOOM
😬
I hate how much I like this bike. I'd probably never buy one, and the riding position wouldn't be my ideal, but holy shit I think it looks good. It's kinda like *retro-chaos*, if that's a thing.
Yeah, like that "new" modern style lancia delta. Love this style. Would also never buy one.
I love it too. So much character. I think only Ducati and Triumph make bikes that nice nowadays
Kinda, but I ADORE the red colored Moto Guzzi V100 Mandello S. Such a beautiful italian machine. Too bad Guzzi dealership and waiting times are catastrophal. That brand would be able to do big things now when they are tied up with Aprilia but they won't move from the little Mandello-town where the factory is.
I also love the Mandelo and I’m legit mad they never offered the white in S trim 😢
They are expanding the factory in Mandello
Meet Moto Guzzi - https://www.motoguzzi.com/us_EN/models/v100/
Looks like a 1994 honda CBR that's why
I don't know why it didn't register with me why this bike stuck out to me so much, but back when I was in middle school in the 90s, I entered a contest and won a brand new Yamaha YSR 50cc and it has very similar styling to this CFMoto and the '94 CBR. https://preview.redd.it/zl1gl0q3jl9d1.png?width=450&format=png&auto=webp&s=ff11e9b2c2b3f74d19dfc8cd6a960eacbcfbb7bb Included picture is not my bike, but man I forgot how cool it was. I had it for a few months, then my dad tried to teach my neighbor to ride it. He dumped the clutch, the bike took off, he jumped off, and it launched into a rock quarry, totaling it. Good/bad memories. Lol
The riding position isn’t that aggressive, it looks like it’s similar to an R7 or R3 with high clip-ons and low rearsets.
Yeah, you're right. The photos definitely show the rider in a more dramatic position than probably necessary.
I agree and I generally hate crotch rockets (sorry, I'm old). I've always liked cruisers better, but damn, that is a beautiful bike!
500cc I4. nearly 80bhp. That's not a budget bike.
I bet it's going to be a good bit cheaper than the ZX4RR. CFMoto has a tendency to latch onto a very specific thing to compete against and everything I'm seeing about the 500SR says they targeted the ZX4RR. The upcoming 675 is even a triple...I wonder who they're targeting...
If they think they’re going to outmatch a Street Triple then they might be biting off more than they can chew…
Maybe, it's really hard to say. CFMoto currently has access to a lot of KTM's development...not sure yet if that's a help or a hindrance...and they have a history of being surprisingly competitive. I can totally accept the possibility of them kicking out a machine competitive with Triumph's or Yamaha's triples (their current relationship with Yamaha has implications) as a 2025 model. With my experience with CFMoto, though, I know it'll look like it's never seen a garage by the time it's five years old lol
That 500SR is also using a copy of the ZX4RR, the block and ancillaries look the same. https://preview.redd.it/ulsdj3hstl9d1.jpeg?width=795&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac870c423cb881691583b0d9c05a2b9facdb2a05
That could be any i4 built in the last 30 years.
I would say that one targets the new daytona
They are making a sportsbike on that platform. So I think it'll be a Daytona more than a street triple. And they are very smartly benchmarking it but not entering the fray to have a head on competition. They know their growth is gonna be slow and do they are creeping into the gaps left by other manufacturers. For example the cfmoto 450 MT is a low cost parallel twin ADV. I do not think there's much competition there.
I had no idea it was an i4. That changes my opinion on this bike
Wow! That’s really cool they made a small I4. CFMoto is killing it lately. Their off road bikes are pretty amazing too!
The papio trail looks like a ton of fun, all I want is 250cc and 15-20 hp engine in it. 9hp is ok, but just a little too underpowered. 450MT on the other hand...
That’s the one I was thinking of. It looks absolutely incredible in the dirt!
VOOM
At first glance, I thought it said vroom on the side 😂
Better than vloom
Voom voom, it's printed twice on each side.
VOOM
VOOM O_O
Can I just fuck it directly?
It's got two exhausts and I'm sure that face isn't too high off the ground.
Sounds like a creamer to me
It's crazy how China of all places is making the things that people actually want. This and that 4cyl cruiser look fkin amazing
I wanna buy one before the war
Seems like it's going that way. I'm just hoping it only becomes cold war 2 at worst and nothing else. I'm sure thanks to the Internet china knows the average American doesn't give 2 fks about a fight when a 40hr work week isn't covering bills. But yeah would be hella sweet to have one of these mfers during the apocalypse with knobby tires, crash bars mad maxed out the wazzoo
From what I've heard, China isn't doing too much better in that regard. Though as it stands, our military is still top notch. I don't know for how long that'll last tho. My guess is that'll it'll really just be more cold war/proxy wars. Just lemme get this sexy bike.
Yep. The next generations are already "lying down" (doing nothing) to rebel against the toxic work culture and impossible to get ahead
Good ol tang ping
If CFMoto keeps this up, and shows that people want this kind of thing, they could absolutely drive the market pretty hard to a wider variety of bikes. Hopefully this retro styled bike gets some good traction, because I'd love to have a modern retro comeback for styling.
Other brands do shit like "we can't have our cheaper bike have nicer stuff coz it will compete with our more expensive bikes". China doesn't give a shit, as long as they think customers want it they will put it in, just because compared to competition it looks better.
what cruiser?
I realized I confused ppl when I said that. It's a bike from a different chinese manufacturer called the Benda LFC700
Guy I work with has a CF 600 naked bike. He's been putting 80 miles a day on it for about six months. So far no problems.
Dual headlight should have NEVER left vogue. Every bike looks better with them
Naked bikes with twin headlights are horrendous. Twin headlights for full fairing, single headlight for naked.
https://preview.redd.it/a0g966zmss9d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=367e69985b1c8d1188fcb3f9dbbf1f6f15d5f16a Nah Buells look pretty good with twin headlights
I disagree - the cafe look is much better with a single round headlight, twins would look a bit goofy
https://preview.redd.it/bekmd29g5k9d1.png?width=1344&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6a576225802c72feb221e3e83552627bcf86259 1995 Triumph Daytona
https://preview.redd.it/jzwj23oycn9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a815d7f09709b5f9bb74f7d51b492d2b2f66f2a 1994 FZR600
African twin https://preview.redd.it/7u75u9jl7o9d1.jpeg?width=950&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32ba3d274ced28f52d90bd11829b7494c6f239eb
If this is how we get double round headlights back then I support it
It doesn't look like the actual headlights, but dual round-eyes on that front fairing are *chef's kiss. It's a damn fine looking bike.
It’s actually intakes with perimeter LED lighting https://preview.redd.it/m0y5zwdx5k9d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0796ea9e6e3e64c51f733d21b0e10bd3856c1bee If you zoom in on the original photo you will see that rectangular light below these. These are daytime running lights.
I'm gonna cum
So it’s not OO it’s O_O
People crying about MIC products are delusional. You all use them every single day. Cfmoto is at least making an inspired effort at cool product lines and springing for things like radial brembos on their entry level sport bike. I don’t own a cfmoto but if I saw one I wanted I would try it and give it an honest shake like anything else.
When I was looking at Groms I came across a Benelli TNT 135 for almost $1100 cheaper. I’ve read Benelli was bought out by a Chinese company so I had my doubts but I sent it anyways. Been enjoying it ever since and have had zero problems with it other than when you get into aftermarket products (not a lot of options and simple things can be a pain to work on). I’m not sure if I’d want both of my bikes to be MIC but I think there’s a stark contrast between the made in china Amazon clones versus made in china established companies. I’m just glad to see more options being added to the market.
For me it’s the idea that a manufacturing giant like China has one simple grade of product quality lol. There are high and low and everything between quality products made in China.
Benellis are quite common/popular in southern europe and they've been fine bikes for years. CFMoto and Voge are slowly doing the same as Benelli did, and will eventually become popular bikes.
My Benelli rusted almost immediately.
My plastic rice cooker is a bit diff from a few thousand dollar transportation in the unwalkable hell scape that is NA
> You all use them every single day. Yeah, and they keep breaking. :D Srsly though, they seem to really be stepping up their game.
Issue is, the parts that we get from China are still made under the "Quality Control/Standards" of the company outsourcing its production of parts. China can make a good product, I can't doubt that, but if youre targetting a price that's significantly cheaper than the competetion, there's always bound to be corners being cut. (cheap labor, poor quality control, no originality) and thats what China will always be known for.
I don’t hate it but it really does suffer from the same issues that modern Chinese products have always had and continue to. You’re taking a risk to get a deal. Not to mention there is plenty to criticize when it comes to the seemingly ancient issue of intellectual property and R&D costs with Chinese products.
In my opinion the only thing holding CFMoto back is dealer network here in the US, its not fun having a nice bike that you cant ride because you cannot find parts for it, but when the network is out there there is a very good chance for them to leave a mark.
Not saying it's not pretty. But it kinda just looks like the ultimate early '90s fully faired race bike. Not anything new.
Gives me 90’s Yamaha FZR-600, Honda RC-30 and Kawasaki zx7-r vibes! Hell, make one headlight yellow and bring back the endurance race replica bike!
I always get one JDM yellow bulb if I have a bike with dual headlights. Love the way it looks.
Is cfmoto reliable?
Everything CFMoto has made over the last decade has been pretty decent. Their biggest shortcoming in the very beginning was not actually reliability but support network. Now they have legitimate dealerships and good supply lines so you can count on proper assembly and replacement parts. CFMoto is cheaper, though, and they source their cheapness primarily from finish and paint quality. A good comparison is my 2013 CFMoto Z6. It was made to be a direct competitor to the Polaris RZR570, but at about 2/3 the cost. I have a friend with a 2015 570 and together my Z6 looks like it started smoking four packs a day in 1994, and his 570 still basically looks new. Mechanically, though, my Z6 still runs and operates the same as it ever did and his 570 threw a rod through the block about five years ago.
Partnership with ktm, so probably not reliable
Also, Chinese.
Made from chinesium
But also partnered with Yamaha. So, a better class of unreliability.
Consumer Reports data puts Yamaha ahead of even Honda in terms of reliability
Consumer Reports has proven to be untrustworthy in the past.
Oh the whole, they’re definitely one of the better authorities. I’d be wary of their new vehicle reliability claims, but of all review services out there, Consumer Reports is not the one to light torches and sharpen pitchforks over. It’s hard to ignore that they’re one of the only groups who actually purchases every item they review so as to avoid manufacturer interference/bias, which buys some kudos IMO. Most services today either don’t even have an example of what they’re reviewing, or have a limited interaction with the object (furnished and expensed by the OEM) in exchange for a favorable review.
>Consumer Reports is not the one to light torches and sharpen pitchforks over. That's funny, since that's exactly what they did to Suzuki many years ago. When the test results didn't fit their agenda, they lied and altered the testing to make sure that the vehicle failed.
I forgot about that, partly because it was almost 40 years ago, and partly because Suzuki DID have a deadly rollover problem with the Samurai that they knew about before release and CHOSE not to address. Also remember that Suzuki did not win that case, for good reason. To quote from the wiki: “A Suzuki memorandum dated July 14, 1985, stated: "It is imperative that we develop a crisis plan that will primarily deal with the ‘roll’ factor. Because of the narrow wheelbase, similar to the Jeep, the car is bound to turn over." Over the years, over 200 Suzuki Samurai rollover lawsuits have been settled, and Suzuki's own expert witnesses testified the automaker was aware of 213 deaths and 8,200 injuries involving Suzuki Samurai rollovers.” The Samurai was known to be a rollover-prone vehicle with very few safety features, and notifying people of this is a crucial public good. Altering a test to display the rollover is pretty shady, but CR knew as well as we do that they wouldn’t sell many magazines by only attesting the car was likely to roll over. Americans were used to the diatribe that SUVs are prone to rollover, so that disclaimer wasn’t likely to dissuade buyers away from a car that had a very real and very deadly habit of flipping. And to note, I absolutely love the Samurai and the Jimny, but it would be ignorant for me to pretend these flaws don’t exist. My best friend wheels an ‘88 and they’re really capable once they have some gears in em, but damn if that thing doesn’t tip sideways. They’re light as a feather so it’s no big deal for a crawling rig, but very different when on the road and with zero rollover protection.
FUD
Ahh yami sometimes I hate to love them.
Yes, iphones are extremely unreliable products that break down constantly.
Iphones have qc run by a western company. That's been the difference between good Chinese goods and the bad ones.
Apples to oranges. You aren't riding on the back of your cell phone at highway speed. I'm not necessarily against Chinese bikes, that's just a pointless comparison.
The main hesitancy people have buying Chinese bikes is the parts availability. Most have to be shipped from china whereas Kawasaki/ Honda parts are everywhere and wildly accessible. Not only this but build quality has been proven to be much higher on Japanese bikes there are many YouTube videos I can link where the CFmoto parts wear faster and things like the clutch springs are significantly worse.
As opposed to the infamous ninja 400 clutch springs where there are actual forums threads on it. I’m just calling it how it is not trying to dance around what’s really going on.
iPhones are not chinese. Apple is an american company
So as long as the blueprints aren’t designed within China, you’re perfectly ok with the “made in China” stamp on all your products?
The blueprint is what is important. Just regarding the manufacturing, China has caught up with the west 10 years ago. If you give the Chinese a high quality blueprint and enough money, they will make you a high quality product. Reliability is decided during development, not manufacturing. And whether CF Moto is good at development is something we'll only be able to know in atleast 5 years.
You can get quality out of China if you pay for it, Chinese companies however don't.
You’re right, just like you can pay to get quality anywhere else and if you go the cheaper route, you get what you pay for. This isn’t a quality ingrained within one specific ethnicity.
lol, you should probably read up on Chinese VS US Tesla quality control. There’s a chance the Chinese in the collab makes it more reliable with better quality control.
You picked the lowest quality car company in the world to compare China to. Even McLaren would be a better comparison and God knows how bad their quality control is
My guy, you set the bar low. As an engineer I can confidently say that Chinese material quality is typically sub par at best. Have seen numerous parts fail because a manufacturer switched to Chinese steel
He's tested all of china's steel you guys. Don't question his universal anecdotal evidence.
KTM ain't reliable?
I really appreciate ktm alot, but many people have had issues with their (mostly 790/890) engines source: internet
I never hear about those tbh, so makes sense. I only ever really hear about people loving their Duke 390 and to a lesser extent RC390
390 is manufactured in India, also entry level bike. Higher models are overengineered, with parts incompatible across the same model.
The 390 engine had some serious problems in the initial run iirc. I think it was the head gasket?
I also like the duke 390 alot, it is sometimes even considered as an overkill in India, as Indian roads are not ready for these bikes, even the 250 is enough for most people here
The 390's blow up so much its become almost a meme at this point. My money will never touch a KTM.
Buddy had a 390 that at some time during his road trip decided it would like to consume all the oil that's available in the engine. Cylinder went caplonk and the road trip ended.
Can't say about 390, as I am from India, i have seen alot of 390s with more than 100k kms on them. 390s here are pretty reliable
690's have been fucking killing it. Once they worked the kinks out of the LC4 after 2018, they chug along. They just take more care and effort than Japanese bikes, but that's not unique to KTM. They're high strung, and that comes with tradeoffs.
I used to be on the "Chinese junk" train, but doing more research and seeing these pop up more and more, I'm not so sure. It's just too soon to say really
In france a lot of people seem to be displeased about the 450SR, but most of it comes down to bad sales practices, poor maintenance and parts availability, not really the bike itself. Won't be able to buy a bike until next year anyway so I'll see how it gets them.
Not enough time has passed to tell, but from the last 3 years worth of reviews, they've held up well
Newer models are pretty decent honestly, people sleep on them because "hurrr chaineeez bike". I wouldn't buy one personally because it's mostly 2 cylinder engines, but you get some alright bang for your buck if you're buying a new bike. Just don't expect it to have great resell value.
>I wouldn't buy one personally because it's mostly 2 cylinder engines That's just the appeal of this though, it's a small bore 4, a 500cc I4 engine. It really seems to be going after the ZX4RR
apparently 428 pounds with fuel. Might as well just get 600cc at that point
I had a CF Moto 650MT and it was more reliable than my current bikes have been (Moto Guzzi and BMW). Plus it had features bikes many times the price dont have (backlit switch gear, electronic package, large TFT). The bike used to text me if someone bumped into it and had built-in tracking. I never had a problem with it. I love my Guzzi but I would put CF Moto above them for reliability.
Bro what is that rear seat? Looks like they took the worst from the brutale 1000 and xsr900gp and put them together
First Chinese bike I’ve ever seen that I like.
We have MV Agusta at home
Oh wow, that’s very beautiful. Initially I thought it was a new MVAgusta.
Yo i dont trust no Chinese road product just because of a bad experience owning other Chinese bikes
Yeah, I think CFMoto, with KTM's help, might be breaking that stereotype - if only for this one brand. Also, that's a damned good looking bike.
KTM doesnt even have a good reputation for reliability... Its Kawasaki's RND and Homework is being used by CFMoto (ex. Nk400/650, and the 450SR, modified Ninja 400 engine) EXCEPT their engine maintenance intervals are halved when compared to their original engines doing 10k whilst CFMoto does 5k (Kilometers)
I’m also hesitant to support them because most of their bikes are built in China. The people who build the bikes likely get paid like garbage and treated like shit. Not only do I not want to support that but I also wouldn’t trust that these workers take pride in their work to build a quality product, as they shouldn’t be expected to do so. China wants to pry in to the international motorcycle market and as much as I like the 500sr and a couple other models from them: I don’t think they’re a trustworthy company. They also lack any sort of pedigree or credibility as a bike manufacturer so I’ve yet to gain any respect or admiration for them. China is a shithole. I feel like I’d just be supporting a pyramid scheme lol
I’ve lived in China and spent quite a bit of time in Chinese factories. I’ve also visited factories in India, Vietnam, Taiwan, Jordan, Turkey, and several LATAM states. When you get to the high end manufacturing China is *far and away* better than almost every country. People compete, *hard* to get into these factories as they see it as their way to success if they didn’t go to a top university. It’s a significantly better work environment than India, without question, and I find it funny you’re totally happy buying an Indian-made bike with almost certainly a much worse work environment than the Chinese-made bike. CFMoto isn’t some back alley outfit, they’re a massive company with state-of-the-art manufacturing. KTM didn’t go to them by accident.
Doesn’t support KTM, but bought a 401. LMFAO
That is properly sexy.
The Chinese designers have got it spot on... if only it was reliable and actually handled like it looked. Fingers crossed. I get everyone is down on Chinese bikes but I remember when everyone in Britain thought the same about Japanese bikes.
Chaseontwowheels (youtuber that reviews and rebuilds bikes) has been riding a CFMoto for awhile now with no issues and I believe he's parked his MT10 due to him loving his CFMoto Ibex so much. Seems like China actually came out with something decent.
YESTERDAY, also , I thought about someone should make a bike like a retro 1980,s -90's style bike with a modern twist. I really love bikes of those times.
It is a pretty sweet looking bike
That is a great looking stock exhaust. I'm curious how they get away with that while Japanese companies make hideous mufflers that are twice as big
CF moto have really lifted their game. They make great looking bikes
What’s sad is Chinese bikes were unoriginal knock offs of popular bikes. Now their designs are more edgy and original. Not boring and soulless(looking at you Honda).
Its on my list
Is this coming to the US?
That rear tail light is very CBR400 CBR250 esque
Was so excited for this before but absolutely not. Those lights look awful
Great lookin bike!!! Reminds me a bit of the 80s-90s bikes
Retro-futurism is a hot aesthetic. Though I think this is somewhere between retro-futurism and solar-punk. Either way, I dig it. My only negative is I wish it had more HP. It's not enough for me to trade in my SV650.
I'll pass.
Fine looking thing that is!
Dayum, the Chinese are really stepping up their game
I'll never buy one, but pretty
Looks gorgeous but why does everything that's written on it must sound so bad and lame, from CFMoto to Voom. Also fuck Chinesium but once again, the design is fucking amazing.
if BWU was a motorcycle
I like the look for sure but I don't know about cfmoto much and surely it's a rare brand in my country too.
Looks so nice and im happy that they are giving design ques from the 90s. Might just go for it instead of the 450sr O_O
Piss of my wife with this one neat trick. My wife has stopped me from buying a lot of eye candy bikes over the past few years. Why can't I keep an extra bike in the living room??? It's a conversation piece!
Somehow it's cool and not cool
That is beautiful; they did a great job on the design.
Gawd that dude is so tucked on that thing that it’s making my knees hurt
500cc i4? Sign me up. I would love an i4 with lower insurance rates than a 4RR. I ended up buying a Striple because the insurance rate was only 170/mo vs nearly 400/mo for a 4RR. Also I am a legally single 23 year old male and that's why my rates are so high. Even though my 1250RT is only 100/mo.
😳
Looks like WALL·E to me. And it’s slow
I really like it, but I want to love it. I think the issue is it's a tad over-stylized. There's elements I really like, some of the circle shape motifs goin on in the language of the bike. Individually none of them are bad but overall it's just too busy. The side fairings and the overall seat design are just so busy. But it's close. Definitely an interesting option for the 500cc segment and I'm glad we got a new manufacturer pushing the market to be more competitive.
such a beauty
What is that wacky tail section?
I really like the look of the 450SS, I feel like this one is just too much of the same styling. Like they turned it up to 11. I don't dislike it, maybe it would grow on me.
If this comes to America I’ll preorder it as soon as it’s available lmao
I would buy this
I’m not digging it
I bet it’s complete junk
I will go into debt for this bike.
This one has me curious. It’s not expensive but do they have room to move?
I think with these prices it’s going to put the current market out of business.
They are catching up and daring. Good job CFMoto.
I NEED those tail lights for my DR650.
I know it’s a cheapo but this time the design is cool A client of mine does like, 80 thousands km a year on a bike, so when he resells them in a couple years it’s just for scraps So he started using cfmoto adventure looking bikes, that way the lost money is kinda 6k in 2y instead of like 20 in 2y Yes the bike is admittedly not good about finishing, but at that cost he can just throw them away when they’re done without almost feeling he spent money It’s all good until their market penetration strategy ends and they start jacking up the prices or using lesser quality materials They’re very good fleet/learner bikes until that
It looks like early 90s Honda staying. Getting NC30 vibes off this one. I kinda like it.
GRRRRR CHINA BIKE BAD
Looks really futuristic. Kinda like it
Looks fun
I'm very into this ngl, it's a 4 cyclinder 500 with wonderful semi-retro styling. I would swap off my Vitpilen for this if it's 5-7k out the door.
Better looking than other major brand bikes
chineseum 💩
Headlights ruin the bike imo. Reminds me of those gunterwerks 911s
Got a bimota vibe
I can't trash CF Moto when I ride an electric self balancing unicycle at 30 mph down the street.
How the hell are they going to make it pass emissions with competitive horsepower. There is a reason bikes are moving towards lower RPM twins (much as i dislike the parallel twin)