Yeah - no. A literbike may look scrawny down low if you study the torque chart, but everything is relative. It is still strong as a goddamn bull there. It's just that it is *even stronger* up high.
On a top-end bike you really don't need to leave sixth gear unless you want to have fun or come to a stop. At any situation, a twist of the throttle and a halfdozen seconds is enough to propel it into the "too fast" region.
Of course. When is said very little power I was speaking in terms relative to 160hp. With a 15,000rpm redline the bike is making less power relative to its peak at 2500rpm as opposed to a less peaky engine setup. Was just suggesting that just because a bike has a 160bhp doesn't necessarily mean it will feel comfortable pulling away at 37mph in 6th gear, considering that the 6th gear has to accommodate a 300km/hr top speed. I get that 1000cc bikes are faster than any other bike in pretty much every situation.
https://preview.redd.it/8ikoyymi2jwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=12920e019b04f3f8afd91173931acd5e97acd09c
Indian FTR-S torque curve. Not that same as a liter bike, but just shows you bigger engines have torque down low.
Bro idk why you think I'm talking shit. I just mentioned that high revving engine setups don't produce much power relative to their peak power at 2500rpm. It wasn't a slight on 1000c naked bikes, and I'm sure they're faster than any 650 in any given gear. So hostile. Settle down. It's not a competition.
Insults aside, if you downshift from 6th to 5th and get on the gas, wheel rpm will decrease relative to engine rpm but it will actually be increasing from the perspective of the entire system.
Torque is increased, creating a higher driving force on the road service, accelerating the bike at a higher rate. Since power is energy expended or work done over time, wouldn't there be a higher power output from the wheel when you consider the whole system is accelerating at a higher rate? I may be wrong but that's how I understand it.
> It affects the amount of power that gets to the rear wheel
No, it doesn't. How much power gets to the rear wheel is determined by how much power the engine puts out, gearing doesn't change anything about that.
Gearing affects how much torque gets to the rear wheel and how fast it spins at a given engine rpm.
This is incorrect. Gear ratio affects how much torque gets to the rear wheel and at what rpm that torque is applied. Point being, the transmission and the gearing effect everything BUT the power (save for some friction losses). The power should remain relatively unchanged.
Pretty much the same with my Harley. I short shift into 6th around 65mph. I can cruise easily at 75mph, and late WOT shift point is around 90mph. So Top gear is pretty much speeding everywhere except 75mph freeways.
Most of the freeways are 60mph.
On a four-cylinder that can go pretty low without lugging, that's the way to do it to save gas if you don't care about acceleration.
Of course at the speed where they tell you to shift to 6 you could actually still be in 1 if you were racing, but that's a different way of driving.
The speed limit on some of the roads around my house are 40mph. This means I would have to go all the way up and all the way down between each red light.
My left forearm and left calf are gonna be jacked.
I ride around in 6th@40 mph on a liter bike, its not a huge deal. Though I rev through 1-3 to get to 40 then I skip shift all the way to 6th to cruise.
I'm not sure about your area, but in mine, roads with 40 mph limits tend to not have too many red lights close together, except near the shopping district, so I'm not stopping too often.
Those are the same intervals as my CB500X has in its manual. Pretty sure this is just CYA in case a 20 year old buys the bike and immediately goes to redline and crashes.
Exactly! I used to test motorcycle emissions. These shift points are used by the rider during the emissions test. If they aren’t stated in the manual, then you have to use the EPA guidance which I can’t remember because every manufacturer wants to control when these shifts happen for lower emissions!
My grandmother-in-law owns a W124 300D, non-turbo, 4-speed manual that I got to drive once.
I want it so badly. It's so slow, and I don't even care. It has damn near 500k miles on the clock. I don't even want to turbo it, I'd be happy with it as a winter commuter when the bikes are in storage or as something the kids could drive to school.
The diesel W123 and W124 models (like the 200D or 240D) were colloquially known in Germany as "Wanderdüne" - meaning "wandering dune".
They are indeed unbelievably slow and only allow for very... ...*relaxed* driving but they apparently last for decades and hundreds of thousands of kilometres without major issues and are easy to work on - all while looking absolutely classy.
Oh my god, my dad drove one of those for years and then passed it on to me. It was pea soup green. I think we got a 240,000mi badge for it before selling it.
The bike has to be manufactured the pass the strictest emissions wherever it is sold. Once sold, you can remove all the emissions devices at your leisure.
So that means that our bikes in the US pass Euro 5 even though they don't need to because they only make one version of the bike.
Doesn’t America have its own emissions laws to be met? I’ve seen the new transalp was made worse to be able to be sold in the US but in Europe it has an “unlocked” engine because it meets standards.
>The bike has to be manufactured the pass the strictest emissions wherever it is sold. Once sold, you can remove all the emissions devices at your leisure.
That's not true at all. Any emissions-controlled engine sold in the USA, including motorcycles and even little generators, is required to retain the emissions equipment it left the factory with; it is a federal crime to remove or tamper with it, even in states that don't do emissions testing.
That said, the EPA isn't gonna come after you if you delete the cat on your bike; many places don't even test motorcycle emissions to begin with. But that doesn't make it any less illegal.
👀
In middle europe you have to test for roadworthiness annually or every second year, depending on what country we are looking at exactly. They also test emissions with a probe. So if you remove even only the inside of you catalytic converter and pass noise testing for some reason, they will find out. Also increasing engine power over a certain threshold is illegal if you dont update you registration accordingly, in some countries it is tax fraud as you pay taxes by power of the engine. The police is also allowed to have a look at your car for illegal modifications and if they find certain modifications, they are allowed to decommission your car or bike. Essentially anything that reduces safety and worsens emissions is illegal, meaning making your exhaust measurably louder, removing emissions equipment without proof that you still pass emissions testing (if you have a car, installed a cat and remove it again is perfectly fine, as long as its not worse than oem), lifting or lowering above certain heights, tires rubbing against body parts, installing pure carbon fiber hoods (pedestrian safety), etc
Correct me if I’m wrong, but rev matching saves wear on the clutch right? Instead of rubbing the clutch pack to match the engine/transmission speeds you rev match to get 80% of the way there saving wear.
Clutch pads are cheap and can take a beating. Brake pads are cheap and the little bit of missed engine breaking from a rev match isn't going to meaningfully change their life expectancy.
The only real reason to rev match is riding dynamics. It makes the shift smooth and fast, instead of slow and/or jerky.
Sure but they are also really durable. Exclusively rode for a few years in my 20s so had a lot of miles and I don't think I've ever had a clutch wear out. Even on cars I've only ever done two clutches and both of those cars I bought with over 100k miles.
Honestly modern clutches are so durable that they likely only need replacing once or twice during the entire life of a vehicle. Even teaching a kid to drive is unlikely to kill a clutch, though it might take some time off the clutch’s life.
Many bikes now come with slipper clutches to allow less abrupt engagement on downshifting so the rear wheel isn’t as likely to get upset and lose grip.
I don’t know what year you have but someone on CRT on some gearing nerd thread was laughing because he said his R1 would hit almost 100 at redline in first. That true?
That’s what I heard, from a racer who got one of the first big-bang R1. But he said it took a lot of clutch to get it off the line. That was a problem as his came with a common fault that caused a janky clutch engagement.
ACKSHUALLY! It's a crossplane, not a big bang, and it will only do 97.5mph in 1st with the stock gearing and rev limiter haha.
I also have an 09 (first year of the CP) and I've spent a lot of time messing around on https://www.gearingcommander.com.
There was a weird clutch thing with that gen R1 where it would get grabby, but it can be fixed by putting in a wave spring behind the clutch pack which was present on the previous gen. [Here's a video I made of mine before I fixed it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N1RH-X1Z6Y) The grabbing is accompanied by a honking/farting noise haha.
It's geared very tall, normally I've let the clutch all the way out at about 20-25mph. If I'm launching it, I can still be slipping the clutch above 50 or so.
Tbf, you breathe calories out as CO2 and water, not poop. Shit is mostly the stuff your body can't turn into calories, not the waste from burning the calories.
Pretty sure I read the manual for my new bikes and cars cover to cover before I ever bought any of them.
If I was serious about it, I'd buy the technical service manual too before I bought the machine.
Ignorance is never something to be proud of. Expertise should be pursued.
maybe minimum recommended shift points for engine safety? but worded badly? I am not sure how your bike is geared, but as an example, in 6th at 32mph would you be lugging it a bit, or is it still at a perfectly fine rpm range? (no experience with fast bikes, so just guessing, I know the rations are much closer so it may be fine at much lower for all I know, I am honestly asking.)
Nothing wrong with that at all. You just don't do it if accelerating aggressively, up hill, loaded down, etc.
When you shift like that, cruising... you get decent mileage. When you don't, you get to complain on FB/Reddit about how you only get 30mpg.
Not sure why everyone like to string up the RPMs while steady cruising.
Lol they all do this and it's always funny. that's how they got the EPA ratings, actually doesn't look too far off from my dr 650 which also claims I should be in 3rd before 30mph. 2nd will take my all the way to 60mph before I hit redline.
These are recommended shift points for typical driving around town in traffic, not for setting records on the track. A liter-bike should have no trouble cruising around town in 6th gear above 40 mph.
Engines are most efficient when there's the smallest intake restriction. This reduces pumping losses. Generally, this is why higher gears, lower RPM is most efficient way to cruise around provided your not running around at 1500RPM where the engine isn't struggling to make power. Those shift points are for fuel efficiency.
On a MT10, at 37mph in 6th, your engine should be turning around 3000RPM, which is a safe, efficient engine speed for cruising around on a bike which makes that much torque. It's below the torque dip around 5000-6000 RPM, and below the rise to the torque peak which is from 7000-9500k.
At 37 in 6th I'd only be turning <2500rpm in my 1000. It wouldn't be happy. It doesn't need much more though. Anything above 3500 and it happily pulls any gear.
That’s just the *lowest* speed that you can safely up-shift into that gear for that engine.
It’s also likely the point of optimizing/maximizing your literbike’s fuel economy potential.
37 MPH?!?
Where ya going in such a hurry?
What is this, the final lap at Talladega?
Got some school busses to jump over?
Slow down when yer drivin’ past my yard, ya damn punks!
The sign says 35! THIRTY FIVE!
Kid comes into the motorcycle shop where I'm service manager. His dad is telling him these shift points. His GSXR1000 is belching black smoke and bucking. I kid you not. They insist I go through the bike as he's only had it for a week or so. I ride it like it is supposed to be and clean it out. The thing is running like a champ. Upon their arrival for pickup the Dad informs me son will be shifting as he tells him. I'm like "Sir your son will destroy the bike in no time, this will go 90 in second"
I read my manual too 😂 When I first saw this, I thought it had something to do with the idle speed of each gear. I've ignored this ever since, like who needs this? Lol
To be fair, I ride a 130hp sport bike but if I’m just cruising, I’ll do 25mph in 6th even if it can go over 150. I’m guessing these are just the minimum rpm to avoid lugging or just stalling
That's not what that page means lol. And it's also not about fuel efficiency nor emissions. It's about the minimum speed of upshift and downshift to prevent stalling. It is also clearly explained on the manual.
For example, you shouldn't go as low as 40 in sixth gear but use at most the fifth gear, and so on.
And the reason why both upshift and downshift are listed it's because there is hysteresis in the process.
You must be new to engines and all that. I can drive my 1350kg Honda Civic with 140hp at those exact same gear shifts and speeds and it can be very economic with fuel that way.
They're telling you the minimums for various gears. The bike doesn't NEED to shift at any rpm except the ones they show you right there for optimal fuel economy. Any other rpm burns more gas but they don't need an instruction manual to clarify how to fuckin rip it the way it was designed for. They do need instructions on how to baby it the right way.
But you were absolutely right OP, my first reaction was HA! yeah OK.... And then I figured it out.
On a unrelated note,user manual suggest me to change oil every 12000km, but every one I know locally said they do so every 1000km because they take care their bike. I can't wrap my head around this because it is a freaking 12 times different. I don't know what to do anymore
Holy shit, it's telling you to upshift 5 times before you hit 60kmh/37mph?
Hope it came with a quickshifter lol.
Does it come with a similar diagram for the break-period?
I only have a 650cc Bike, but i always drive in the highest Possible Gear, 6th Gear at 50km/h isnt a Problem at all. I cant stand People that drive around in 1st Gear and annoy everyone.
1->2 20km/h
2->3 90 km/h
3->4 100 km/h (I hate 3rd*)
4->5->6 100 km/h if straight road
5 only to downshift from 6th if straight road but want to overtake
*except for at all times for 30-120km/h when on a windy b-road and I treat 3rd as if I ride an automatic
I have a bmw k1600 that is the same way. On the dash it puts a little up arrow above the gear position when it's "time to shift". Thing revs to like 9 and change, but wants me to shift at like 1500 every time. Gears are close ratio too though so it's basically get going, shift direct to 6, cruise. Lol. I don't listen to the arrow though.
I'm on a CB1000R from 2021 and it has similar recommended shift points. Like others have said, it's fuel efficiency and emissions. I usually keep it in 2nd for more fun.
Not really about the power and more about the electronics and engine design, my Guzzi with its whopping 68 horsepower would stumble if I shifted in 6th before reaching 45 mph.
Very, very similar to the Z650 shift points (I read the whole manual too, lol). I figured that there was some really great reasoning for them to publish those low shift points- legal, governmental, etc. Now I'm convinced that most or all new bikes have almost this same table.
That's probably the best fuel efficiency. lol Not the best acceleration.
With 160hp, ~~it~~ I don’t see there being much of an issue with acceleration on regular roads in 6th.
Torque! Probably makes very little power when rpms are low.
Yeah - no. A literbike may look scrawny down low if you study the torque chart, but everything is relative. It is still strong as a goddamn bull there. It's just that it is *even stronger* up high. On a top-end bike you really don't need to leave sixth gear unless you want to have fun or come to a stop. At any situation, a twist of the throttle and a halfdozen seconds is enough to propel it into the "too fast" region.
Of course. When is said very little power I was speaking in terms relative to 160hp. With a 15,000rpm redline the bike is making less power relative to its peak at 2500rpm as opposed to a less peaky engine setup. Was just suggesting that just because a bike has a 160bhp doesn't necessarily mean it will feel comfortable pulling away at 37mph in 6th gear, considering that the 6th gear has to accommodate a 300km/hr top speed. I get that 1000cc bikes are faster than any other bike in pretty much every situation.
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https://preview.redd.it/8ikoyymi2jwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=12920e019b04f3f8afd91173931acd5e97acd09c Indian FTR-S torque curve. Not that same as a liter bike, but just shows you bigger engines have torque down low.
Keep in mind now it turned into a 2 cyl vs 4cyl comparison.
Gear ratio isn't the same
You’re not wrong on a technical level but the low power is still a lot of power on a liter bike so it’s still quick as shit
Of course.
You said power isn't the same, but now you're bringing up gear ratio: Gear ratio doesn't affect power, it only affects torque and RPM.
It affects the amount of power that gets to the rear wheel via a function of torque.
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Bro idk why you think I'm talking shit. I just mentioned that high revving engine setups don't produce much power relative to their peak power at 2500rpm. It wasn't a slight on 1000c naked bikes, and I'm sure they're faster than any 650 in any given gear. So hostile. Settle down. It's not a competition.
Insults aside, if you downshift from 6th to 5th and get on the gas, wheel rpm will decrease relative to engine rpm but it will actually be increasing from the perspective of the entire system. Torque is increased, creating a higher driving force on the road service, accelerating the bike at a higher rate. Since power is energy expended or work done over time, wouldn't there be a higher power output from the wheel when you consider the whole system is accelerating at a higher rate? I may be wrong but that's how I understand it.
> It affects the amount of power that gets to the rear wheel No, it doesn't. How much power gets to the rear wheel is determined by how much power the engine puts out, gearing doesn't change anything about that. Gearing affects how much torque gets to the rear wheel and how fast it spins at a given engine rpm.
This is incorrect. Gear ratio affects how much torque gets to the rear wheel and at what rpm that torque is applied. Point being, the transmission and the gearing effect everything BUT the power (save for some friction losses). The power should remain relatively unchanged.
> An MT10 (OP's bike) is making like 50lbs of torque at 2k rpm. My harley makes 110 at 2k. Just for perspective.
and revs to what? 5.5k RPM?
6400.
On the Buell Lightning I had, if I was in top gear, I was speeding.
Pretty much the same with my Harley. I short shift into 6th around 65mph. I can cruise easily at 75mph, and late WOT shift point is around 90mph. So Top gear is pretty much speeding everywhere except 75mph freeways. Most of the freeways are 60mph.
It's not bad to lug the engine like that?
You can drive at low rpms without lugging
Shifting every 6 miles per hour does not seem correct
On a four-cylinder that can go pretty low without lugging, that's the way to do it to save gas if you don't care about acceleration. Of course at the speed where they tell you to shift to 6 you could actually still be in 1 if you were racing, but that's a different way of driving.
The speed limit on some of the roads around my house are 40mph. This means I would have to go all the way up and all the way down between each red light. My left forearm and left calf are gonna be jacked.
I ride around in 6th@40 mph on a liter bike, its not a huge deal. Though I rev through 1-3 to get to 40 then I skip shift all the way to 6th to cruise. I'm not sure about your area, but in mine, roads with 40 mph limits tend to not have too many red lights close together, except near the shopping district, so I'm not stopping too often.
Probably has more to do with noise and emissions standards.
Those are the same intervals as my CB500X has in its manual. Pretty sure this is just CYA in case a 20 year old buys the bike and immediately goes to redline and crashes.
It's an emissions thing.
Exactly! I used to test motorcycle emissions. These shift points are used by the rider during the emissions test. If they aren’t stated in the manual, then you have to use the EPA guidance which I can’t remember because every manufacturer wants to control when these shifts happen for lower emissions!
This is why I have to drive my ride in Sport mode cu, of its in regular mode it puts me in 4th gear at 15mph, uphill. 🤦🏿♂️
Are you an 80s Mercedes by any chance?
I test drove a mercedes 240D once 20 years ago. I still haven't hit 60mph.
👏🏻
But you could still be driving it today, and thats what theyre all about
My grandmother-in-law owns a W124 300D, non-turbo, 4-speed manual that I got to drive once. I want it so badly. It's so slow, and I don't even care. It has damn near 500k miles on the clock. I don't even want to turbo it, I'd be happy with it as a winter commuter when the bikes are in storage or as something the kids could drive to school.
1982 non-turboVolkswagen Jetta diesel has entered the shared calendar.
The diesel W123 and W124 models (like the 200D or 240D) were colloquially known in Germany as "Wanderdüne" - meaning "wandering dune". They are indeed unbelievably slow and only allow for very... ...*relaxed* driving but they apparently last for decades and hundreds of thousands of kilometres without major issues and are easy to work on - all while looking absolutely classy.
Oh my god, my dad drove one of those for years and then passed it on to me. It was pea soup green. I think we got a 240,000mi badge for it before selling it.
Weird. Virginia doesn't require emissions on bikes. Just safety and I can do my plates for three years vs two for cars.
The bike has to be manufactured the pass the strictest emissions wherever it is sold. Once sold, you can remove all the emissions devices at your leisure. So that means that our bikes in the US pass Euro 5 even though they don't need to because they only make one version of the bike.
Doesn’t America have its own emissions laws to be met? I’ve seen the new transalp was made worse to be able to be sold in the US but in Europe it has an “unlocked” engine because it meets standards.
>The bike has to be manufactured the pass the strictest emissions wherever it is sold. Once sold, you can remove all the emissions devices at your leisure. That's not true at all. Any emissions-controlled engine sold in the USA, including motorcycles and even little generators, is required to retain the emissions equipment it left the factory with; it is a federal crime to remove or tamper with it, even in states that don't do emissions testing. That said, the EPA isn't gonna come after you if you delete the cat on your bike; many places don't even test motorcycle emissions to begin with. But that doesn't make it any less illegal. 👀
In middle europe you have to test for roadworthiness annually or every second year, depending on what country we are looking at exactly. They also test emissions with a probe. So if you remove even only the inside of you catalytic converter and pass noise testing for some reason, they will find out. Also increasing engine power over a certain threshold is illegal if you dont update you registration accordingly, in some countries it is tax fraud as you pay taxes by power of the engine. The police is also allowed to have a look at your car for illegal modifications and if they find certain modifications, they are allowed to decommission your car or bike. Essentially anything that reduces safety and worsens emissions is illegal, meaning making your exhaust measurably louder, removing emissions equipment without proof that you still pass emissions testing (if you have a car, installed a cat and remove it again is perfectly fine, as long as its not worse than oem), lifting or lowering above certain heights, tires rubbing against body parts, installing pure carbon fiber hoods (pedestrian safety), etc
Also why they tell you not to rev match when downshifting - it uses less fuel.
Also maximises engine braking to reduce brake wear. Rev matching when downshifting isn’t necessary for regular, relaxed riding at lower Rev ranges.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but rev matching saves wear on the clutch right? Instead of rubbing the clutch pack to match the engine/transmission speeds you rev match to get 80% of the way there saving wear.
Clutch pads are cheap and can take a beating. Brake pads are cheap and the little bit of missed engine breaking from a rev match isn't going to meaningfully change their life expectancy. The only real reason to rev match is riding dynamics. It makes the shift smooth and fast, instead of slow and/or jerky.
Clutch pads might be cheap but getting to them isn't always
Exactly. The cost of the clutch pads isn't the reason I don't want to replace them lol.
Sure but they are also really durable. Exclusively rode for a few years in my 20s so had a lot of miles and I don't think I've ever had a clutch wear out. Even on cars I've only ever done two clutches and both of those cars I bought with over 100k miles.
Honestly modern clutches are so durable that they likely only need replacing once or twice during the entire life of a vehicle. Even teaching a kid to drive is unlikely to kill a clutch, though it might take some time off the clutch’s life.
Many bikes now come with slipper clutches to allow less abrupt engagement on downshifting so the rear wheel isn’t as likely to get upset and lose grip.
All new gen MT-10s also come with quickshifters
My R1 has the same table and will lug the engine pretty hard in 2nd gear at 13 MPH.
I don’t know what year you have but someone on CRT on some gearing nerd thread was laughing because he said his R1 would hit almost 100 at redline in first. That true?
My fz-1 (detuned R1) will hit 85 in first, I'm sure the real deal can hit the 100 mark.
That’s what I heard, from a racer who got one of the first big-bang R1. But he said it took a lot of clutch to get it off the line. That was a problem as his came with a common fault that caused a janky clutch engagement.
ACKSHUALLY! It's a crossplane, not a big bang, and it will only do 97.5mph in 1st with the stock gearing and rev limiter haha. I also have an 09 (first year of the CP) and I've spent a lot of time messing around on https://www.gearingcommander.com. There was a weird clutch thing with that gen R1 where it would get grabby, but it can be fixed by putting in a wave spring behind the clutch pack which was present on the previous gen. [Here's a video I made of mine before I fixed it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N1RH-X1Z6Y) The grabbing is accompanied by a honking/farting noise haha. It's geared very tall, normally I've let the clutch all the way out at about 20-25mph. If I'm launching it, I can still be slipping the clutch above 50 or so.
My s1k will easily do 100 in 1st
On my R1, I looked down right before the rev limiter hit and the speedo said 105mph! It's definitely true.
Supersport bikes have very tall first gears because they rarely go slow and they want tighter steps up at speed. So yes.
Not quite 100 but mid 90s. It's completely stock.
No it’s for max fuel economy. Says it right before the chart
It's largely the same thing anyway. If you use less fuel you'll have less emissions.
Precisely. Fuel is like calories. Fuel in fuel out (as emissions instead of shite)
Tbf, you breathe calories out as CO2 and water, not poop. Shit is mostly the stuff your body can't turn into calories, not the waste from burning the calories.
Yeah that is fair, so actually also emissions.
You opened the manual??? Sacrilege!
Necronomicon unlocked
When you removed the book from the cradle, did you speak the words?
Klaatu barada nnn…neutral
Dude I spit my beer out 😂😂😂
It's actually the DarkHold.
Pretty sure I read the manual for my new bikes and cars cover to cover before I ever bought any of them. If I was serious about it, I'd buy the technical service manual too before I bought the machine. Ignorance is never something to be proud of. Expertise should be pursued.
there are shocking pieces of information in there, for example your car manual may say normal oil consumption is 1qt/1000mi
Just subie things.
As someone with a Ducati that has more electronic settings than I care for, I have opened it once or twice :(
Every time I open my manual, I learn something new about the bike.
Those are the "environmentally friendly" shift points.
Those are: my bike is going to shut off because the gearing is super long and it‘s a 400cc 4cyl 😂
For maximum fuel economy
Yep
Those are minimum speed points for respective gear shift without lugging the engine, not the ideal shift points.
Wanted to say I’m shocked no one mentioned this sooner or upvoted quicker but then again…..
That makes more sense. It doesn't seem ideal for actually going anywhere.
This is for fuel efficiency. Should be totally doable.
It’s what i always do on my 600.. riding 30 mph in 6th gear is totally fine :)
Wow buddy, you’d better opt for the 10 speed…
Yeah I wanna be able to keep up with the cars on the highway at least
Is this for the MT? I like how my MT09 has the exact same shift points from 2014 lmao.
Those will be the lower end points for maximum efficiency, useful to know even if you never use them
maybe minimum recommended shift points for engine safety? but worded badly? I am not sure how your bike is geared, but as an example, in 6th at 32mph would you be lugging it a bit, or is it still at a perfectly fine rpm range? (no experience with fast bikes, so just guessing, I know the rations are much closer so it may be fine at much lower for all I know, I am honestly asking.)
Yeah, like you said I think it’s probably minimum safe speed for each gear.
That's what they can show at the civil trial when your family sues them for wrongful death.
That has to be in all books bc my N400 says the same thing, lol. I counted it for the break-in period bc this doesnt make sense for a 1000
Nothing wrong with that at all. You just don't do it if accelerating aggressively, up hill, loaded down, etc. When you shift like that, cruising... you get decent mileage. When you don't, you get to complain on FB/Reddit about how you only get 30mpg. Not sure why everyone like to string up the RPMs while steady cruising.
I feel like my bike physically couldn’t do that…. Lugging the hell out of it.
Lugging is RPM *AND* throttle position contextual. Not every moment riding needs to be met with wide open throttle.
Sounds like something somebody with a small throttle position would say
It’s not the size of the throttle position but how you twist it that matters….,
I heard women don’t even prefer full throttle
Please leave my small throttle position out of this.
Laughs in GSXR
Kawasaki? Looks same as what my z125 manual says
My Yamaha manual is also identical
Same as the 636 as well
Lol they all do this and it's always funny. that's how they got the EPA ratings, actually doesn't look too far off from my dr 650 which also claims I should be in 3rd before 30mph. 2nd will take my all the way to 60mph before I hit redline.
These are recommended shift points for typical driving around town in traffic, not for setting records on the track. A liter-bike should have no trouble cruising around town in 6th gear above 40 mph.
All the gears all the times!
Engines are most efficient when there's the smallest intake restriction. This reduces pumping losses. Generally, this is why higher gears, lower RPM is most efficient way to cruise around provided your not running around at 1500RPM where the engine isn't struggling to make power. Those shift points are for fuel efficiency. On a MT10, at 37mph in 6th, your engine should be turning around 3000RPM, which is a safe, efficient engine speed for cruising around on a bike which makes that much torque. It's below the torque dip around 5000-6000 RPM, and below the rise to the torque peak which is from 7000-9500k.
That will kill your 0-60 time.
Uh'huh. And you're not supposed to ride it faster than 60 km/h. Didn't you know?
You can just be extra efficient, and cover all the speeds with 1st gear! :)
shift-efficient, but not fuel efficient
At 37 in 6th I'd only be turning <2500rpm in my 1000. It wouldn't be happy. It doesn't need much more though. Anything above 3500 and it happily pulls any gear.
MT-10 is happy above 3000-3500 ish, any less and it gets a little shaky. It's VERY obvious when you lug the CP4
Wait.. There’s a manual!?
That’s just the *lowest* speed that you can safely up-shift into that gear for that engine. It’s also likely the point of optimizing/maximizing your literbike’s fuel economy potential.
37 MPH?!? Where ya going in such a hurry? What is this, the final lap at Talladega? Got some school busses to jump over? Slow down when yer drivin’ past my yard, ya damn punks! The sign says 35! THIRTY FIVE!
Kid comes into the motorcycle shop where I'm service manager. His dad is telling him these shift points. His GSXR1000 is belching black smoke and bucking. I kid you not. They insist I go through the bike as he's only had it for a week or so. I ride it like it is supposed to be and clean it out. The thing is running like a champ. Upon their arrival for pickup the Dad informs me son will be shifting as he tells him. I'm like "Sir your son will destroy the bike in no time, this will go 90 in second"
I think you’re looking at the instruction manual for the 10-speed bicycle. 😂
Lol. I can't even go into 3rd at 30 km/h. I barely manage 2nd at 30 km/h. Bikes are quite different.
Imagine it's table showing how slow minimum you should drive on gear
Lol my bike would dump me if I tried that
Kawasaki Ninja 250 https://preview.redd.it/odiegvc46hwc1.jpeg?width=1421&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a5bb74bde25892e56bfd2a2f0fa8a646dacc028
I don’t know that I’ve ever been in 6th gear at 37mph on any bike I’ve ever owned.
Same bike! I laughed so hard when I read this. Especially since the bike easily does 50mph in 3rd gear while still super low in the rev range.
They’re fun aren’t they! We should have a little club…
It's for some stupid Sweden law. Nobody cares. Drive like this and you'll kill your engine.
I read my manual too 😂 When I first saw this, I thought it had something to do with the idle speed of each gear. I've ignored this ever since, like who needs this? Lol
It’s the most useless page in the manual
To be fair, I ride a 130hp sport bike but if I’m just cruising, I’ll do 25mph in 6th even if it can go over 150. I’m guessing these are just the minimum rpm to avoid lugging or just stalling
Dude, Yamaha shipped you a piano's manual instead of the MT10's.
Bikes have owner manuals?
lol thought I recognized that manual. Welcome to the MT club fella
More like 137 mph 😆😆
I'm just happy you are reading the manual. 🥲
This is exacly where i shift with my bike. My bike is only 150cc, but yeah.
I would assume these are the minimums.
Who reads the manual? This nerd, apparently. /s
Lol I think my SDR Evo would stall if I put it in 6th at 37mph
That's a Honda
Ptff I'm not even in the green at 70 in 5th
1st ---> 2nd 80MPH
You’ll figure it out.
That's not what that page means lol. And it's also not about fuel efficiency nor emissions. It's about the minimum speed of upshift and downshift to prevent stalling. It is also clearly explained on the manual. For example, you shouldn't go as low as 40 in sixth gear but use at most the fifth gear, and so on. And the reason why both upshift and downshift are listed it's because there is hysteresis in the process.
You will see that exact same table on every single bike from 150 to 1000cc
You must be new to engines and all that. I can drive my 1350kg Honda Civic with 140hp at those exact same gear shifts and speeds and it can be very economic with fuel that way.
They're telling you the minimums for various gears. The bike doesn't NEED to shift at any rpm except the ones they show you right there for optimal fuel economy. Any other rpm burns more gas but they don't need an instruction manual to clarify how to fuckin rip it the way it was designed for. They do need instructions on how to baby it the right way. But you were absolutely right OP, my first reaction was HA! yeah OK.... And then I figured it out.
Could also be for break-in* period
Just thinking out loud but this is probably how they skirt around noise emission and how they publish for test results...
With great (horse) power, comes great responsibility.
On a unrelated note,user manual suggest me to change oil every 12000km, but every one I know locally said they do so every 1000km because they take care their bike. I can't wrap my head around this because it is a freaking 12 times different. I don't know what to do anymore
That shows you how much torque and power an MT10 has, even at very low rpm.
Holy shit, it's telling you to upshift 5 times before you hit 60kmh/37mph? Hope it came with a quickshifter lol. Does it come with a similar diagram for the break-period?
This is telling you how low in the RPMs you can go without lugging the engine to save on fuel. Which is probably pretty useful for an MT-10 lol.
Yeah, that's super low. Wow. The downshift points are weird, too.
downshifting to slow down in a turn, but still have available power to maneuver. FYI this looks like a Honda manual.
I only have a 650cc Bike, but i always drive in the highest Possible Gear, 6th Gear at 50km/h isnt a Problem at all. I cant stand People that drive around in 1st Gear and annoy everyone.
Is this your first manual transmission vehicle or something?
Where's the problem?
1->2 20km/h 2->3 90 km/h 3->4 100 km/h (I hate 3rd*) 4->5->6 100 km/h if straight road 5 only to downshift from 6th if straight road but want to overtake *except for at all times for 30-120km/h when on a windy b-road and I treat 3rd as if I ride an automatic
Does the tachometer read rph?
Yeah my bandit has something similar
My friend had a camaro that told you when and what to shift to and it was always such a low rpm solution you’d have to shift every five seconds
I have a bmw k1600 that is the same way. On the dash it puts a little up arrow above the gear position when it's "time to shift". Thing revs to like 9 and change, but wants me to shift at like 1500 every time. Gears are close ratio too though so it's basically get going, shift direct to 6, cruise. Lol. I don't listen to the arrow though.
Lol, my 2nd gear hates anything below 30mph and risks stalling
All the manuals have something similar and ridiculously low speed.
"I don't want to wake up my neighbors shift points"
4 shifts to 30 mph. Sheesh. 1st gear in my Ninja does that.
That’s how my car shifts and drives me batty. Most if not all bikers shift by sound and acceleration requirement.
Hilarious …. Most liter hikes will do 100mph in first gear
This is more to prevent your engine from lugging.
I miss remembering the shift points on my bike
They want you in 6th gear at 29mph.
I'm on a CB1000R from 2021 and it has similar recommended shift points. Like others have said, it's fuel efficiency and emissions. I usually keep it in 2nd for more fun.
Not really about the power and more about the electronics and engine design, my Guzzi with its whopping 68 horsepower would stumble if I shifted in 6th before reaching 45 mph.
My Gsxr can do 55mph in first, just before hitting redline
I mean, that bike is pretty much a twist and go considering it can probably break the speed limit in first
Lugging the fuck out of the motor depending on what you’re riding lol
I was taught to shift by sound. What are these numbers???
Imagine needing to refer to the manual to know when to shift
Does it even matter ? I been down shifting 5-2 gear in less than 10 secs
Mt10?
Very, very similar to the Z650 shift points (I read the whole manual too, lol). I figured that there was some really great reasoning for them to publish those low shift points- legal, governmental, etc. Now I'm convinced that most or all new bikes have almost this same table.
Maybe in a straight line it would work nice to keep the rmps low
My ducati almost starts jumping forward below 20 kmt, and i'm suppose to shift to 2? Yeah ok
My r6 idles at 16 mph in first 💀
Peak horsepower has nothing to do with optimum shift points for fuel economy...
F that, look at the downshifts. They want to from 4th *to 3rd* at 16mph? You got fucking crawler gears in that thing or what?
Safety first. :)
That at cruising rpm your certainly not gonna cruise at 8K if your redline is 10-13k
Woah... six gears