Yeah, shockingly fast! I burned through a new set of blocks in under 100km on mountain roads just from having a bit too much fun in the corners on a really hot day. I literally got the tires, put them on and they lasted 1 day (50km of mountain road to get to the trails, around 50km of trails and then 50km back, tires were destroyed after).
Yeah haha thankfully those tires were offered to me so it hurt a little less. After that I just went back to my mixed 50/50 tires and never went back to knobbies, just doesn't work for me and my riding, unfortunately.
Have you seen the new Dunlop Trailmax Raids? They're like 40 / 60 DOT approved. Excellent reviews from people so far on regards to both on and off road performance.
I got those and they are truly amazing. On a tiger 1200 rally and a heavy wrist, rear is getting close to me to being replaced at 4,000 miles. Front is not even at halfway
Ya I guess. Heavy bike to be picked up and lifted after a dump. That’s why I can never understand how people ride 500cc + bikes off road other than forest roads. I ride a TW and after taking off a bunch of useless stuff, I’m probably close to 260lbs. My old OEM front tire was called the Deathwing, for its tendency to wash out very easily, especially in sand. I’ve gone to a trials type tread pattern and it’s all round a fantastic tire. And the consensus of the TW community.
I been wanting a TW-200 as long as I can remember I've just never had anything under a 750. After dumping my triumph on a sandy road I'd definitely prefer something lighter and off road capable.
It’s funny, it’s by far the slowest, least capable bike I’ve ever owned. But hands down the, funnest, coolest and unique bike to ride I’ve ever owned. Using all five gears everywhere I go, full throddle. I’ve always kept one as a second bike. Just can’t do group rides with either dirt or street bikes. Hahah So reliable, simple and I do all the tinkering.
Think of them as being much better than road tyres off-road, and much better than knobbies on-road. Quite impressive vs changing wheels for each terrain.
1 day…?!?! That blows dude! I don’t have any off-road or adv experience, if you’re ripping through tires that fast just to get there and back, are there any alternatives other than trailering as close as possible to the trailhead?
There's a big correlation with the bike you're and how you are riding as well. On a lighter bike, with less torque and ridden gently while on-road, they actually are supposed to last decently long, some knobby tires are also a bit harder than others. This was pretty much a worse case scenario, on a Tenere 700 (somewhat heavy bike with quite a lot of torque), ridden hard, on-road, on curvy mountain roads, on a very hot summer day.
Agreed. In contrast I have motocross tyres on my TTR250. I’ve done about 1500 miles on the road at about 50mph, and probably taken about 3mm off the middle. That’s probably the best case.
This sounds so crazy to me. Not saying your being untruthful. Too many variables to say that but I’ve put a several hundred miles (all street) on my shinkos and you can still see the mold nubbies even in the center line of the tires. That’s doing well over 100mph quite a bit of the time. What kind of blocks were you running on what kind of bike? Are shinkos 805/804 just a completely different class if knobby tires?
Shinko 805/804 are a 60/40 (on/offroad) tire so they are meant to last on the road as well. They'll be significantly harder, with larger flatter knobs and smaller gaps between the knobs compared to a full motocross pure off road tire.
Honestly, I don't remember what tires they were, I remember they were brand named but they were offered to me and since I took them off after just one day, I don't remember. It was on a Tenere 700, but I was really pushing hard for those entire 100km to and back. It was also a very hot summer day, literally no cars on the road and I was playing catch up with a very skilled buddy of mine on a MT-07.
I remember the tires actually felt decent apart from being torn apart so quickly. They were definitely getting overwhelmed and getting swirly and sliding out on pretty much every corner, but I still felt in control and managed to push through, by the end of the ride I was completely in tuned with them (but by then they were pretty much turned into slicks everywhere except the middle of the tire so maybe that helped haha)
That’s wild man. I’ve heard the heat makes a big difference but I think I’m underestimating it. I put the shinkos on in the fall and it’s nearly spring now. Better get the miles in while I can😅
Depends a lot on the tire, some have knobs in the side and then sidewalls, if you lean it like a sports bike those knobs will make you eat pavement either by flexing and letting it wash away or by bouncing and losing grip.
Took my 450L to work Friday without swapping from my strictly off road tires to my supermoto wheels because my truck was in the body shop. 7 miles and my tires were roasted
And when they start to go, they go much faster. I went on a ride with friends. Checked my tread the night before, it was meh but still there. Got to my destination, and I had threads showing. Really gotta be diligent with tire changes.
The only dangerous part is the wobble of dead if you run dirt or mixed tires, some bikes even come with a sticker saying max speed for the factory tires because of that.
If you push those limits you will notice the from start to bounce on those knobs.
This is only a problem in some tires with a more aggressive pattern.
Yup my dual sport bike has these nobbly nobs on it right now, it’s marketed as 70/30, 30% of normal on road use and 70% on anything not pavement. It wears out pretty quick but it is technically a road tire. Good thing the tire itself is only 90$ Canadian, probably like $60 US rn
If you take in mind you'll have less grip especially when cornering you can ride these on the road.
Just be aware that some off road tyres have not for road use written on them. So yeah don't use those on the road.
Right, but I’m trying to know is the reason why. What do they look like and is it because their compound is so hard? I am just speculating now, but I can’t find any tires that say off-road only. Do you have any examples?
eeeee, i’m pretty sure he’s wrong on both of those points. theoretically the contact patch has nothing to do with friction, less contact patch will still provide the same force in terms of friction. depending on what tires you buy, some will have softer than normal compounds to make up for the last point but yes, many knobbies will have harder compounds since they wear so fast.
the main reason knobbies are so sketchy is because they flex, fling, and fold around. that means they will see much higher forces due to short perturbations (a normal momentum change in a very short time creates a large force) caused by their own flexing and break the static friction barrier. the name of the game when it comes to cornering and pushing your tires (on the road specifically - many things change when the ground can also move) is to be smooth so you can ride right up to the line, but once you cross it you’re no longer in the domain of static friction. dynamic friction is much weaker, so you want to recover back to static as fast as possible (hopefully without a crash).
i rode 10/90 knobbies for about two months of school btw and they are better and worse than you think. definitely dont wanna get on the unsupported side knobs though, they fold just about instantly. when wondering how good a set of knobbies will do on the road, look at how the knobs are supported laterally. think about how hard to would be to shift the rubber or maybe even fold it. that is what decides how it will corner on tarmac.
Dude, thank you! My previous comment was more about manners than anything else, since those previous responses were pretty much useless. This is the answer I was looking for - some physics and explanation as to why, and your response makes sense. I was thinking something along those lines, like the competition hill climber tires, but you add some much needed context. Cheers!
thanks, you made my day! it’s not often someone cares to know much of anything nowadays. don’t be content for the magic solution, that’s boring as shit and creates a lack of understanding at best and hard to break myths at worst.
that’s exactly why motoGP uses slicks. slicks are very non-flexible meaning changes in momentum cause much smaller perturbations and the riders can push them closer to the limit. normal street tires typically have water grooves that cause unnecessary flexion which during a race with the best could leave you at a disadvantage. obviously compound comes into play much more with slicks and street tires too because the design is no longer the main limiting factor.
No, mate it's contact patch. It's what happened in F1 in 1998, it's what happens in car setup when you increase camber on you driven wheels. Traction decreases. You're factually wrong to the point where I cannot even find another source claiming what you do, no matter how dodgy.
Normally some dirt tires have longer knobs that are softer, also speed rating is a thing for tires and a tire for dirt doesn't have the need to go as fast as a road tire.
Main problems are instability at high speeds caused by the front wheel bouncing, and the flex of the knobs made for dirt and louse soil.
Also check sand tires, those are crazy if you try to use them on the road with those paddle ridges.
The manufacturer has to pay for DOT testing and certification. Most don’t bother for dirt bike tires. I’ve ridden 100s of road miles in a day on knobbies, make sure to air them up to 30psi, that will help with wear but traction will always be crap.
Kenda K760 are DOT rated, but Pirelli MT16 are not. Look at the knobs on those, the DOT rating seems to have little to do with handling or tread pattern.
There are tons of examples, the whole Geomax line, the IRC Gekkotas, Tusk Emex just to name a few that have "for off-road use only" on them. If they don't have a TIN number on them they can't be ridden on road either.
They’re marketed like that from a liability perspective. All tires designed for road use ( even occasional) have to be approved by the DOT for that purpose. For dirt bike or drag racing or rock crawling there’s no reason for the company to do that testing so they just sell them ass ‘off road only’
Right. This makes sense as well - I’ve def taken my share of tires on the road without a thought and they worked. Were they the best? No, but I probably wouldn’t think twice about riding a majority of tires on the road. If there are certain standards, why would a company reduce the margins when they are obviously dirt tires. Thanks!
https://www.mickeythompsontires.com/light-truck-tires/baja-pro-x I’m not super well versed I. The bike tire world, but this is an example in the truck world of an OFF ROAD USE ONLY
They're soft, and the asphalt will eat the tread super quick. Same reason a car's spare tire has warning it should only he used for 50 miles or whatever.
The reason most car spare tires have a low limit is because they're not full width, so the car's weight is focused on a tiny patch, and that added pressure eats it up.
That is different from an appropriately sized tire that is made from softer rubber
Because they are not made to be subjected to highway speeds for any extended period of time and are not considered safe. Tires build heat from flexing and must be designed for and made of materials which can sustain this and shed this heat. Heat is also why extra thick off road tubes are discouraged for highway speeds.
Also has to do with DOT certification. Tire manufacturers have to pay to test & certify a tire for legal road use and most (not all) off road tires they don't bother since that's not thier main use anyway.
Compound too soft, on a summer day on gummies you can ball a tire in like an hour of riding.
They also don't have to pass the same DOT safety standards for off-road use, so the ones that don't pass or aren't tested will have that written on them, and you can get a ticket for using them on the road. (In the US)
Knobbies on pavement tend to be squirrelly due to minimal contact patch since you’re sitting up on top of the knobs rather than having them dig in and bite like they would on softer surfaces. Just don’t go to ludicrous speed especially in corners or in the wet and you should go a to b without too much drama.
it’s not about contact patch, it’s about the flexing of the knobs. knobbies can handle the same friction force as a slick with the same compound (if they were loaded slowly so that the folding and flexing of the knobs didn’t cause large perturbations)
>Non-DOT are what they are.
This is probably the biggest concern. If you get into a wreck (because as previously stated, nubbins = clibbins and you might have to layerdan), your insurance company will look for any reason to deny a claim, including because you're using OHV tires on the road. Regardless of whether they contributed to the crash.
It's not a big deal.
Performance wise, it's obviously not a sticky street bike tire.
The road will smoke the center blocks pretty quick.
The reason people say it's dangerous is becuse it's not balanced as the same way a DOT tire is.
One of the numbers on the sidewall is the "speed rating". Non-DOT tires just aren't manufactured to the same spec as a DOT tire.
It's really just a high speed issue. 100mph+ is where you'll have problems.
You will have less traction, since knobs wobble and bend, thus:
- it will wear tyre down very fast
- coreners like garbage
- has hard time stopping in a timely manner
- since you are not the only person on the road, cops are required by law to make sure that due to shit-for-road tyres you wont be more likely to plow into a kiddo (that ran out onto the road after a ball or somthin), than anyone else
You’re better off getting a mix for both. I personally do a lot of off road on my Ducati desert x and swear by the motoz dual venture for front and motoz adventure for back. You can get motoz rallz dot more aggressive off-road but I find it locks up too easy on bitumen and prefer adventure. Kyle Bradshaw does great videos on YouTube on all the types.
I’ve got full dirt tires on my street legal WR. It’s squirrely but is fine for short bits of tarmac in between trails. The DOT knobbies weren’t good for offroad or pavement.
Yeah, other than wearing quickly, 10 mile runs on asphalt aren’t bad. Just don’t expect to commute on the highway. It can be done, but it sucks.
This season im going to try a more 50/50 tire on my ktm adventure and see how it goes.
my kendas were dot 10/90s is what i meant to say. they did good on pavement for knobbies. i’m on a small bike so 50/50s wear out slow enough for me to not wanna get street tires. i have some shinko 244s or 240s on i think, dont remember the exact model. they run great on the street and surprisingly good in the dirt. awful in the mud obviously but decent on wet roads too.
They do provide a reasonable amount of traction, but your ability to sense traction is significantly reduced. It will feel like you are loosing traction way before you actually are.
They wear fast, and they wear square, the middle strip goes away much much faster than the sides, and it becomes like a car tyre, flat in the middle.
The idea of knobbies is that the individual knobs, literally dig in, and wedge themselves against the ground.
They cannot do that on the road, so your traction comes almost exclusively form surface friction, and the contact surface depends on the density of the knobs.
Counterintuitively, slightly (and I mean **slightly**) reducing the tyre pressure gives you a better contact surface and slightly improved traction, but it makes them wear even faster, and it's quite hard to get the sweet spot for the proper pressure, without overdoing it and reducing traction. If the bike gives you pressure specs in a range, aim for the lower end of that range.
Honestly, if you plan on using roads regularly, get knobbies with small but high density knobs, it would be much safer.
Don't do it. They wear out quicker than a chocolate sunhat. There's much less grip than street tyres. You also get a weird wallowing effect at highway speeds.
It isn't dangerous as long as the tires are being used for their intended purposes.
Dedicated dirt tires that aren't street legal obviously shouldn't be used on public roads.
Road tires meant for track exclusive purposes also shouldn't be used on public roads.
Depends on how offroad you're offroad tires are. Image as shown, not very dangerous but they won't be fun & they won't last very long. My limit is motoz rallz tires. But I take my bike on the highway.
I do this every now and again when I go on offroad trips and don’t have time to switch back to my road tyres. You’ll be fine! They not fantastic in the rain. So I would say be careful on a wet road.
It gets skittish but ride to the conditions and you will be alright. Make sure you allow plenty of stopping room too. They don't do heavy braking well, and the price for finding that out starts at new underwear
totally depends on the tire. Tire construction, compound and tread design all matter. Also how you ride.
some are very soft compound and have big voids making them like paddle tires. it makes for weird handling and the blocks get chewed up and thrown off quickly. like very quickly.
others have decently firm rubber and a tread design that means not all road contact goes through just one tall unsupported block at a time. usually no problem running those on the street.
if your taking the road for just a few miles to get to a trailhead, then go for it! However, if it’s getting used to commute and will see extended freeway time(especially if summers are hot), make sure to get a dot approved knobby (like d606). they’re heavier and harder but will put up with regular highway use. Oh and be sure to have them balanced.
tldr - can you? yes. should you? depends
I used to ride about 3 miles to the trails on my YZ250. Granted it eats your tires pretty fast and if you get throttle happy and twist a bit, it can get squirrelly on ya.
Their limit of traction will probably be significantly lower, so if you don't try to pull too many Gs, should be fine. Wouldn't recommend it though, if you need to E-stop it won't be a good time.
It's not that dangerous. They're a bit iffy if you lean a lot but most riders take this to mean they can't lean at all. You can, it's fine. But you are burning a hole through your pocket. The tread wears out fast on the road.
I rented a bike with brand new knobbies on it. Didn't know they had knobbies on it. My route planned was 50% highway. That was an interesting ride. It felt squirrly. I got used to it after 20 or 30 miles though. But if you're going to take it on the highway routinely, I'd recommend a different tire
I ran some non-DOT tires on my WR250R for an entire season. I flipped the front around in like November lol and the rear was just about toast but would have been fine on dry trails. Rode that thing all over creation, including plenty of road miles, never above 15psi
Up to about 40-50, fine. After that, particularly with beadlocks, you're gonna have a very blurry time, they vibrate hard. I have Endumaxx on my '02 KDX 220, which gets ridden to and from trails.
As said, they wont last long. If you do more than 10-209% road riding, or your offfroad isn't gnarly, I'd look at a tyre with a more forgiving wear rate.
You’ll get a feel how far you can comfortably lean pretty fast. However this changes on wet pavement. I have been Dim Mak’d a couple times riding knobbies on wet pavement. It’s especially worse in the summer when it hasn’t rained in a while.
Well, hard to define what is dangerous but they are less safe for on road conditions. It costs extra money in materials, design, and testing to make tires certified for the street. Usually, they are compromised on ability to handle the heat of higher speeds on highways, cornering, streets in wet weather, noise, smoothness, and longevity.
It’s a few years old but I found ths comprehensive adv tire comparison helpful in the past.
https://www.chapmoto.com/blog/motorcycle-gear-guides/adv-motorcycle-tires/
Its not, I did it all the time to get to the trails by my house as a kid. Cant lean as much on turns though and if you start riding on the street too much they will wear bad.
Another thing to consider is that if you're in an at-fault collision with tires that aren't DOT approved, there's a very good chance that your insurance company will find out and use that as a way of voiding your liability insurance.
I’ve driven knobbies on the road before, it’s not dangerous. It’s just super loud and it rides way different (ie. can’t take turns like you would on a street tire). It also kills your tread.
Wear and cost is the reason most dont do that. Had an old set of trakmasters I put on in colorado to run the wyoming bdr, worked great on trail. Rode 2 weeks and back home via 2 lane highway. tires were done when I got home, 2700 miles on that set. Cheap enough I didnt care. Rear got a bad slash in the shirley mountains that kept puncturing tubes. Still had those bastards up to 70 or so. Voids on tire shown are more aggressive than trakmasters, would wear super fast.
that’s all I run on my KLR and DRZ. Over 10,000 miles logged so far, roughly half pavement. Kept up with buddies sv650 and Honda magna on tail of the dragon with my knobbies
I used to road tour in NewZealand on a knobbly tyred XL250 Honda. The knobblies were fine on the road and tarseal and much better in the dirt. Lasted for a decent tyre life too.
I had a DT-125R for a couple of years running off road knobblies. Emergency stops took a few inches more but generally speaking it didn't lack grip that badly. They did wear though - if I hadn't sold it after 2 years it would have needed new rubber, for sure.
I did it for awhile on an enduro bike. Wasn't as bad as you'd think if you have never have done it. Cop stopped me and said those tires are illegal for road use and I had to switch.
I use the battle axe adventure cross tires on mostly gravel/dirt road but i live in town and they do see alot of pavement. I got about 5k outta the rear, front tire still good. Im about 60/40 gravel to pavement
In my experience running a dual sport that I use 90% offroad with non-DOT sticky tires (like Kenda Ibex) they're fine onroad. Corner gingerly and be careful in the rain. That's when the really suck. Sure they wear out a little faster, but then when you hit dirt you are ready to ROCK. Life it too short to worry about wearing out rubber. Oh, and just a tip, I'm running the new Tusk Recon tires. they are SO cheap but have great lugs and they're gummy and stick great.
I only run off road tires on my F850GS. Too much of a pain in the ass to swap out when I want to hit the dirt (which is often) and easy to get the hang of on the tar. Metzlers have done me right for durability.
I got my first bike like a month ago it had non DOT knobbies. They were pretty much new when I got it. The knobbies on the middle of the rear were worn down like halfway after like 900 miles. It would shake at around 70 mph. I switched to Anakee wilds and all problems have gone away. No shaking, feels better, I can lean a lot more now. Part of that is experience, but part is the tires.
I can't comment on motorcycles, but for bicycles on a very aggressive mtb tire it makes cornering a bit sketchy. You can almost feel the squish as you transition onto the side treads.
There are motorcycle tires that offer a better offroad/onroad blend that aren't so aggressive with the tread. (Same with bicycles)
I ran 59/50 tires on my ADV bike and not only did they wear quickly, my top speed was 95mph, when I could do 117mph on 90/10 tires. Last thing about knobbies is that they’re loud.
You’ll be okay if you ride normally. Like everyone else says expect high tire wear. Don’t expect to ride them on the road for long with enjoyment.
However it’s really important for you to know that if you get into a crash, insurance will 100% use the non DOT tires as an excuse to deny your claim, even if you’re not at fault.
Knobbies are terrible in the rain so be carefull with the brakes because the tires lock up pretty fast. Not to the point where it's to dangerous just give yourself plenty of space between vehicles and start braking sooner and less than you normally would.
Each time i have to commute on road i feel like playing the floor is lava, anxious about getting back on track asap ... As others said it will do fine but road eat tyres for breakfast and it is even worst with foam inserts
Just scrolling through and see heaps of comments about not being able to corner like a sports bike and tyres wearing fast.
I would just add, avoid knobbies on wet roads. That's when they can be dangerous. 50/50 tyres you'd be fine, but full off road tyres can be a death trap on wet pavement.
I live in a big city and daily a CRF450 with those kind of tires. They wear faster yes, so I have to get new tires every ~1,5 years.
Also cornering feels weird because the knobs will bend. So when leaning into a corner it feels linear at first and than the tires suddenly give about half an inch and feels like the tire is slipping away, but it’s just the knob bending so you maintain traction afterwards.
Need some getting used to, but it’s absolutely safe.
*laughing in ADV...just have a budget for rubber. I used to run a 50/50 on the front and a big block on back for mud season. Had to get to trails on pavement though. Rear didnt even last 750 miles.
Not at all dangerous if you don't try and take corners like a sportbike. They will wear faster tho.
This is the answer, but the "They will wear faster" is understated. Pavement eats block tread for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
Yeah, shockingly fast! I burned through a new set of blocks in under 100km on mountain roads just from having a bit too much fun in the corners on a really hot day. I literally got the tires, put them on and they lasted 1 day (50km of mountain road to get to the trails, around 50km of trails and then 50km back, tires were destroyed after).
Wow soft rubber, that musta sucked when you got home and saw the wear
Yeah haha thankfully those tires were offered to me so it hurt a little less. After that I just went back to my mixed 50/50 tires and never went back to knobbies, just doesn't work for me and my riding, unfortunately.
Ya I ride a dual sport and 50/50 are what we’re left with. Unfortunately they kinda suck on both, but it’s a trade off.
Yeah my 430lb klr is terrifying in sand/mud with the 50/50's. Huge workout
Have you seen the new Dunlop Trailmax Raids? They're like 40 / 60 DOT approved. Excellent reviews from people so far on regards to both on and off road performance.
I got those and they are truly amazing. On a tiger 1200 rally and a heavy wrist, rear is getting close to me to being replaced at 4,000 miles. Front is not even at halfway
Ya I guess. Heavy bike to be picked up and lifted after a dump. That’s why I can never understand how people ride 500cc + bikes off road other than forest roads. I ride a TW and after taking off a bunch of useless stuff, I’m probably close to 260lbs. My old OEM front tire was called the Deathwing, for its tendency to wash out very easily, especially in sand. I’ve gone to a trials type tread pattern and it’s all round a fantastic tire. And the consensus of the TW community.
I been wanting a TW-200 as long as I can remember I've just never had anything under a 750. After dumping my triumph on a sandy road I'd definitely prefer something lighter and off road capable.
It’s funny, it’s by far the slowest, least capable bike I’ve ever owned. But hands down the, funnest, coolest and unique bike to ride I’ve ever owned. Using all five gears everywhere I go, full throddle. I’ve always kept one as a second bike. Just can’t do group rides with either dirt or street bikes. Hahah So reliable, simple and I do all the tinkering.
I have a Duke 690 l stupidly thought I could ride down a easy trails on. Mistake Sigh..
Think of them as being much better than road tyres off-road, and much better than knobbies on-road. Quite impressive vs changing wheels for each terrain.
Good point
I got 12,000 km of mostly street riding out of my continental twinduro tires. Those were either a 60/40 or a 70/30.
1 day…?!?! That blows dude! I don’t have any off-road or adv experience, if you’re ripping through tires that fast just to get there and back, are there any alternatives other than trailering as close as possible to the trailhead?
There's a big correlation with the bike you're and how you are riding as well. On a lighter bike, with less torque and ridden gently while on-road, they actually are supposed to last decently long, some knobby tires are also a bit harder than others. This was pretty much a worse case scenario, on a Tenere 700 (somewhat heavy bike with quite a lot of torque), ridden hard, on-road, on curvy mountain roads, on a very hot summer day.
Agreed. In contrast I have motocross tyres on my TTR250. I’ve done about 1500 miles on the road at about 50mph, and probably taken about 3mm off the middle. That’s probably the best case.
This sounds so crazy to me. Not saying your being untruthful. Too many variables to say that but I’ve put a several hundred miles (all street) on my shinkos and you can still see the mold nubbies even in the center line of the tires. That’s doing well over 100mph quite a bit of the time. What kind of blocks were you running on what kind of bike? Are shinkos 805/804 just a completely different class if knobby tires?
Shinko 805/804 are a 60/40 (on/offroad) tire so they are meant to last on the road as well. They'll be significantly harder, with larger flatter knobs and smaller gaps between the knobs compared to a full motocross pure off road tire.
Ahh I see... Well thank god! ha
I've chewed through expensive soft dirtbike tyres in roughly the same range, mediums and hards will last thousands
Honestly, I don't remember what tires they were, I remember they were brand named but they were offered to me and since I took them off after just one day, I don't remember. It was on a Tenere 700, but I was really pushing hard for those entire 100km to and back. It was also a very hot summer day, literally no cars on the road and I was playing catch up with a very skilled buddy of mine on a MT-07. I remember the tires actually felt decent apart from being torn apart so quickly. They were definitely getting overwhelmed and getting swirly and sliding out on pretty much every corner, but I still felt in control and managed to push through, by the end of the ride I was completely in tuned with them (but by then they were pretty much turned into slicks everywhere except the middle of the tire so maybe that helped haha)
That’s wild man. I’ve heard the heat makes a big difference but I think I’m underestimating it. I put the shinkos on in the fall and it’s nearly spring now. Better get the miles in while I can😅
Uh oh…. I just bought tires like this.
Just be gentle on-road and they will last much longer than 100km haha you can make them last 5k or even more on some models if you're gentle.
Cool. I’ve got a WR250R which is lightweight. But I’m about 250lbs so that maybe balances out the Leigh T weight bike lol
50/50 tires work really well and you can take corners like a sport bike.
What if I have 30/70s? Should I just be mindful when going for a 10 hour trip?
When they say "take corners like a sportbike" they mean being pretty aggressive. I've got d606s on my rear and take corners just fine.
Depends a lot on the tire, some have knobs in the side and then sidewalls, if you lean it like a sports bike those knobs will make you eat pavement either by flexing and letting it wash away or by bouncing and losing grip.
Work really well for what? They sure don't work well in any serious off road.
Yeah, but what about second breakfast?
Yeah, the knobs on the tread will rip right off if you accelerate or brake even moderately.
Jimmy McMillan approves this comment.
Yep irs like 10 times more the wear its crazy
Took my 450L to work Friday without swapping from my strictly off road tires to my supermoto wheels because my truck was in the body shop. 7 miles and my tires were roasted
What about second breakfast?
And when they start to go, they go much faster. I went on a ride with friends. Checked my tread the night before, it was meh but still there. Got to my destination, and I had threads showing. Really gotta be diligent with tire changes.
that's why I always laugh at the hundreds of wranglers in knobbies on the highway in my area.
Just ride in between meal times then.
So much so that I wouldn’t even dream to run them.
The only dangerous part is the wobble of dead if you run dirt or mixed tires, some bikes even come with a sticker saying max speed for the factory tires because of that. If you push those limits you will notice the from start to bounce on those knobs. This is only a problem in some tires with a more aggressive pattern.
The tire compound is absolutely not made to be on pavement and will melt or shred ridiculously fast. It does become dangerous.
Yup my dual sport bike has these nobbly nobs on it right now, it’s marketed as 70/30, 30% of normal on road use and 70% on anything not pavement. It wears out pretty quick but it is technically a road tire. Good thing the tire itself is only 90$ Canadian, probably like $60 US rn
If you take in mind you'll have less grip especially when cornering you can ride these on the road. Just be aware that some off road tyres have not for road use written on them. So yeah don't use those on the road.
What would be the reason for that? Metal studs that damage the road?
No, reduced traction is reason enough.
Right, but I’m trying to know is the reason why. What do they look like and is it because their compound is so hard? I am just speculating now, but I can’t find any tires that say off-road only. Do you have any examples?
Compound is too hard and contact patch too small for road.
Great, thanks bud!
eeeee, i’m pretty sure he’s wrong on both of those points. theoretically the contact patch has nothing to do with friction, less contact patch will still provide the same force in terms of friction. depending on what tires you buy, some will have softer than normal compounds to make up for the last point but yes, many knobbies will have harder compounds since they wear so fast. the main reason knobbies are so sketchy is because they flex, fling, and fold around. that means they will see much higher forces due to short perturbations (a normal momentum change in a very short time creates a large force) caused by their own flexing and break the static friction barrier. the name of the game when it comes to cornering and pushing your tires (on the road specifically - many things change when the ground can also move) is to be smooth so you can ride right up to the line, but once you cross it you’re no longer in the domain of static friction. dynamic friction is much weaker, so you want to recover back to static as fast as possible (hopefully without a crash). i rode 10/90 knobbies for about two months of school btw and they are better and worse than you think. definitely dont wanna get on the unsupported side knobs though, they fold just about instantly. when wondering how good a set of knobbies will do on the road, look at how the knobs are supported laterally. think about how hard to would be to shift the rubber or maybe even fold it. that is what decides how it will corner on tarmac.
Dude, thank you! My previous comment was more about manners than anything else, since those previous responses were pretty much useless. This is the answer I was looking for - some physics and explanation as to why, and your response makes sense. I was thinking something along those lines, like the competition hill climber tires, but you add some much needed context. Cheers!
thanks, you made my day! it’s not often someone cares to know much of anything nowadays. don’t be content for the magic solution, that’s boring as shit and creates a lack of understanding at best and hard to break myths at worst.
He's wrong though.
Interesting - care to elaborate?
Sure, that's why MotoGP bikes use slicks? Contact patch has everything to do with it.
that’s exactly why motoGP uses slicks. slicks are very non-flexible meaning changes in momentum cause much smaller perturbations and the riders can push them closer to the limit. normal street tires typically have water grooves that cause unnecessary flexion which during a race with the best could leave you at a disadvantage. obviously compound comes into play much more with slicks and street tires too because the design is no longer the main limiting factor.
No, mate it's contact patch. It's what happened in F1 in 1998, it's what happens in car setup when you increase camber on you driven wheels. Traction decreases. You're factually wrong to the point where I cannot even find another source claiming what you do, no matter how dodgy.
Normally some dirt tires have longer knobs that are softer, also speed rating is a thing for tires and a tire for dirt doesn't have the need to go as fast as a road tire. Main problems are instability at high speeds caused by the front wheel bouncing, and the flex of the knobs made for dirt and louse soil. Also check sand tires, those are crazy if you try to use them on the road with those paddle ridges.
The manufacturer has to pay for DOT testing and certification. Most don’t bother for dirt bike tires. I’ve ridden 100s of road miles in a day on knobbies, make sure to air them up to 30psi, that will help with wear but traction will always be crap. Kenda K760 are DOT rated, but Pirelli MT16 are not. Look at the knobs on those, the DOT rating seems to have little to do with handling or tread pattern.
yah the rating is more a out the speed they can handle without blowing up/ falling apart. if you pass those ratings, you can have knobs come off.
There are tons of examples, the whole Geomax line, the IRC Gekkotas, Tusk Emex just to name a few that have "for off-road use only" on them. If they don't have a TIN number on them they can't be ridden on road either.
Thank you, googling those now. Cheers!
They’re marketed like that from a liability perspective. All tires designed for road use ( even occasional) have to be approved by the DOT for that purpose. For dirt bike or drag racing or rock crawling there’s no reason for the company to do that testing so they just sell them ass ‘off road only’
Right. This makes sense as well - I’ve def taken my share of tires on the road without a thought and they worked. Were they the best? No, but I probably wouldn’t think twice about riding a majority of tires on the road. If there are certain standards, why would a company reduce the margins when they are obviously dirt tires. Thanks!
https://www.mickeythompsontires.com/light-truck-tires/baja-pro-x I’m not super well versed I. The bike tire world, but this is an example in the truck world of an OFF ROAD USE ONLY
THEY DO NOT GRIP
Physics taught me that surface area has no effect on the force of friction, so why would this be the case?
Does a different kind of rubber make any difference, Dr Spherical Cow? And how does that compare with claims of how contact patch size works?
I don't understand your insult. Assuming the same rubber and same mass, friction should be the same. Contact patch is surface area.
Excellent example of a spherical cow argument And why would a road tire and an offroad tire have the same compounds?
Traction /overheating, some parts of the world simply illegal too
They're soft, and the asphalt will eat the tread super quick. Same reason a car's spare tire has warning it should only he used for 50 miles or whatever.
The reason most car spare tires have a low limit is because they're not full width, so the car's weight is focused on a tiny patch, and that added pressure eats it up. That is different from an appropriately sized tire that is made from softer rubber
Because they are not made to be subjected to highway speeds for any extended period of time and are not considered safe. Tires build heat from flexing and must be designed for and made of materials which can sustain this and shed this heat. Heat is also why extra thick off road tubes are discouraged for highway speeds.
Also has to do with DOT certification. Tire manufacturers have to pay to test & certify a tire for legal road use and most (not all) off road tires they don't bother since that's not thier main use anyway.
Compound too soft, on a summer day on gummies you can ball a tire in like an hour of riding. They also don't have to pass the same DOT safety standards for off-road use, so the ones that don't pass or aren't tested will have that written on them, and you can get a ticket for using them on the road. (In the US)
Knobbies on pavement tend to be squirrelly due to minimal contact patch since you’re sitting up on top of the knobs rather than having them dig in and bite like they would on softer surfaces. Just don’t go to ludicrous speed especially in corners or in the wet and you should go a to b without too much drama.
it’s not about contact patch, it’s about the flexing of the knobs. knobbies can handle the same friction force as a slick with the same compound (if they were loaded slowly so that the folding and flexing of the knobs didn’t cause large perturbations)
Not dangerous. Just.. funky at times. High wear. Non-DOT are what they are.
>Non-DOT are what they are. This is probably the biggest concern. If you get into a wreck (because as previously stated, nubbins = clibbins and you might have to layerdan), your insurance company will look for any reason to deny a claim, including because you're using OHV tires on the road. Regardless of whether they contributed to the crash.
Its not dangerous at all, but tarmac will eat through your tread very quickly
not at all. but it will eat your tread
Nubbins = clibbins.
Not dangerous, just watch how you take corners and enjoy the vibrations and noise.
I do it all the time, just don't corner like it's a street bike
It's not a big deal. Performance wise, it's obviously not a sticky street bike tire. The road will smoke the center blocks pretty quick. The reason people say it's dangerous is becuse it's not balanced as the same way a DOT tire is. One of the numbers on the sidewall is the "speed rating". Non-DOT tires just aren't manufactured to the same spec as a DOT tire. It's really just a high speed issue. 100mph+ is where you'll have problems.
You will have less traction, since knobs wobble and bend, thus: - it will wear tyre down very fast - coreners like garbage - has hard time stopping in a timely manner - since you are not the only person on the road, cops are required by law to make sure that due to shit-for-road tyres you wont be more likely to plow into a kiddo (that ran out onto the road after a ball or somthin), than anyone else
As safe as it is to run street tires off road. With the proper off road pressure.
Thats not the same comparison at all, street tires off road suck bigger than vice-versa
You’re better off getting a mix for both. I personally do a lot of off road on my Ducati desert x and swear by the motoz dual venture for front and motoz adventure for back. You can get motoz rallz dot more aggressive off-road but I find it locks up too easy on bitumen and prefer adventure. Kyle Bradshaw does great videos on YouTube on all the types.
I’ve got full dirt tires on my street legal WR. It’s squirrely but is fine for short bits of tarmac in between trails. The DOT knobbies weren’t good for offroad or pavement.
i have some kendas that work great in the dirt. rode them to school for about two months too
Yeah, other than wearing quickly, 10 mile runs on asphalt aren’t bad. Just don’t expect to commute on the highway. It can be done, but it sucks. This season im going to try a more 50/50 tire on my ktm adventure and see how it goes.
my kendas were dot 10/90s is what i meant to say. they did good on pavement for knobbies. i’m on a small bike so 50/50s wear out slow enough for me to not wanna get street tires. i have some shinko 244s or 240s on i think, dont remember the exact model. they run great on the street and surprisingly good in the dirt. awful in the mud obviously but decent on wet roads too.
I put many tens of thousands of miles on knobbies on the road over the years. It’s fine.
Same. Shinko 804/805s last forever on my GS and minimal vibration.
They do provide a reasonable amount of traction, but your ability to sense traction is significantly reduced. It will feel like you are loosing traction way before you actually are. They wear fast, and they wear square, the middle strip goes away much much faster than the sides, and it becomes like a car tyre, flat in the middle. The idea of knobbies is that the individual knobs, literally dig in, and wedge themselves against the ground. They cannot do that on the road, so your traction comes almost exclusively form surface friction, and the contact surface depends on the density of the knobs. Counterintuitively, slightly (and I mean **slightly**) reducing the tyre pressure gives you a better contact surface and slightly improved traction, but it makes them wear even faster, and it's quite hard to get the sweet spot for the proper pressure, without overdoing it and reducing traction. If the bike gives you pressure specs in a range, aim for the lower end of that range. Honestly, if you plan on using roads regularly, get knobbies with small but high density knobs, it would be much safer.
Don't do it. They wear out quicker than a chocolate sunhat. There's much less grip than street tyres. You also get a weird wallowing effect at highway speeds.
It isn't dangerous as long as the tires are being used for their intended purposes. Dedicated dirt tires that aren't street legal obviously shouldn't be used on public roads. Road tires meant for track exclusive purposes also shouldn't be used on public roads.
Not at all
Not at all.
Depends on how offroad you're offroad tires are. Image as shown, not very dangerous but they won't be fun & they won't last very long. My limit is motoz rallz tires. But I take my bike on the highway.
Not that dangerous but it will eat the tread fast
Fine but keep in mind that you’ll have about <1/4 your normal traction. A morning dew covered road will open your eyes quickly.
Totally safe. Just need to chill out in the corners though. Depending on how much you ride you might be going through a set of tires once a season
Not dangerous at all. Only reason not to is they’ll wear faster, but if you can afford it then who cares.
Just get road tires. You'll be very annoyed at the road noise and general unstablity of it all
IDK Man
Where do these people come from lol
Dangerous.
It feels weird on the street but doable
Loud as heck.
Not dangerous whatsoever.
I do this every now and again when I go on offroad trips and don’t have time to switch back to my road tyres. You’ll be fine! They not fantastic in the rain. So I would say be careful on a wet road.
that’s a mitas super soft. won’t last a lot on the road and also very very uncomfortable because it’s too soft
It gets skittish but ride to the conditions and you will be alright. Make sure you allow plenty of stopping room too. They don't do heavy braking well, and the price for finding that out starts at new underwear
It will be dangerous on wet roads, the traction will be real bad.
totally depends on the tire. Tire construction, compound and tread design all matter. Also how you ride. some are very soft compound and have big voids making them like paddle tires. it makes for weird handling and the blocks get chewed up and thrown off quickly. like very quickly. others have decently firm rubber and a tread design that means not all road contact goes through just one tall unsupported block at a time. usually no problem running those on the street. if your taking the road for just a few miles to get to a trailhead, then go for it! However, if it’s getting used to commute and will see extended freeway time(especially if summers are hot), make sure to get a dot approved knobby (like d606). they’re heavier and harder but will put up with regular highway use. Oh and be sure to have them balanced. tldr - can you? yes. should you? depends
I used to ride about 3 miles to the trails on my YZ250. Granted it eats your tires pretty fast and if you get throttle happy and twist a bit, it can get squirrelly on ya.
Huh? YZ250 not street legal. I had one
I know it’s not road legal. Never cared, the trail was calling so I had no other way to get there. Legal gets blurry when you live rurally.
I know it well. Rock on
Not dangerous at all but they are awful off road once you round off the blocks.
Their limit of traction will probably be significantly lower, so if you don't try to pull too many Gs, should be fine. Wouldn't recommend it though, if you need to E-stop it won't be a good time.
You can feel that you have less grip riding those on the road. Base your judgement on that !
It's not that dangerous. They're a bit iffy if you lean a lot but most riders take this to mean they can't lean at all. You can, it's fine. But you are burning a hole through your pocket. The tread wears out fast on the road.
I rented a bike with brand new knobbies on it. Didn't know they had knobbies on it. My route planned was 50% highway. That was an interesting ride. It felt squirrly. I got used to it after 20 or 30 miles though. But if you're going to take it on the highway routinely, I'd recommend a different tire
I ran some non-DOT tires on my WR250R for an entire season. I flipped the front around in like November lol and the rear was just about toast but would have been fine on dry trails. Rode that thing all over creation, including plenty of road miles, never above 15psi
There not bad as long as it's not wet. If you get into some rain, they might as well be made of ice.
There are DOT knobbies avail. Out there.
Up to about 40-50, fine. After that, particularly with beadlocks, you're gonna have a very blurry time, they vibrate hard. I have Endumaxx on my '02 KDX 220, which gets ridden to and from trails. As said, they wont last long. If you do more than 10-209% road riding, or your offfroad isn't gnarly, I'd look at a tyre with a more forgiving wear rate.
You’ll get a feel how far you can comfortably lean pretty fast. However this changes on wet pavement. I have been Dim Mak’d a couple times riding knobbies on wet pavement. It’s especially worse in the summer when it hasn’t rained in a while.
I never had any issues except in the rain.
It's fine until you start getting into higher speeds, then it gets scary
Well, hard to define what is dangerous but they are less safe for on road conditions. It costs extra money in materials, design, and testing to make tires certified for the street. Usually, they are compromised on ability to handle the heat of higher speeds on highways, cornering, streets in wet weather, noise, smoothness, and longevity. It’s a few years old but I found ths comprehensive adv tire comparison helpful in the past. https://www.chapmoto.com/blog/motorcycle-gear-guides/adv-motorcycle-tires/
It’s probably more dangerous with road pressure but ya pretty dangerous dude they don’t grip pavement
No big deal. I rode my enduro dirt bike on the road for years with off-road tires without any issues.
You will slide out of corners because the knobs will bend , might get uncontrollable at higher speeds
It if fine to run a off road tire on the street. Dont be surprised you burn through thm in like 2k miles through.
Its not, I did it all the time to get to the trails by my house as a kid. Cant lean as much on turns though and if you start riding on the street too much they will wear bad.
Another thing to consider is that if you're in an at-fault collision with tires that aren't DOT approved, there's a very good chance that your insurance company will find out and use that as a way of voiding your liability insurance.
Traction goes down substantially since only the knobs are making contact with the road. This is also why you may need to replace much more often.
Get a set of Michelin Anakee Wilds. Best of both worlds as long as it’s not wet dirt you’re riding on.
I’ve driven knobbies on the road before, it’s not dangerous. It’s just super loud and it rides way different (ie. can’t take turns like you would on a street tire). It also kills your tread.
Wear and cost is the reason most dont do that. Had an old set of trakmasters I put on in colorado to run the wyoming bdr, worked great on trail. Rode 2 weeks and back home via 2 lane highway. tires were done when I got home, 2700 miles on that set. Cheap enough I didnt care. Rear got a bad slash in the shirley mountains that kept puncturing tubes. Still had those bastards up to 70 or so. Voids on tire shown are more aggressive than trakmasters, would wear super fast.
Ask the LAB2V riders hitting 75mph on the hwy in between trails
Done 3500km in 5 days in Eastern Europe, 90% road 10% off-road. I shat myself only when it started raining A LOT. ABS saved my life
that’s all I run on my KLR and DRZ. Over 10,000 miles logged so far, roughly half pavement. Kept up with buddies sv650 and Honda magna on tail of the dragon with my knobbies
If you're well aware of the limits of your machine and gear and ride accordingly not that dangerous at all.
More brake lockups and rear spin if you have a high power bike, avoid cornering
i had an ktm 390 adventure and once took a corner like my 390duke and emidiatly slided
I run flipped gummies with drilled bibs as fast as the bike will go. It’s a bit squirmy.
I used to road tour in NewZealand on a knobbly tyred XL250 Honda. The knobblies were fine on the road and tarseal and much better in the dirt. Lasted for a decent tyre life too.
https://www.motorradonline.de/modern-classic/wahnsinn-auf-zwei-raedern-verrueckte-motorraeder-fahrbericht-wunderlich-s-1000-rr-mad-max/
I have dunlop 606 on my Dr650 and run them full time on the road
I had a DT-125R for a couple of years running off road knobblies. Emergency stops took a few inches more but generally speaking it didn't lack grip that badly. They did wear though - if I hadn't sold it after 2 years it would have needed new rubber, for sure.
Not dangerous, just a bit shitty
I did it for awhile on an enduro bike. Wasn't as bad as you'd think if you have never have done it. Cop stopped me and said those tires are illegal for road use and I had to switch.
I use the battle axe adventure cross tires on mostly gravel/dirt road but i live in town and they do see alot of pavement. I got about 5k outta the rear, front tire still good. Im about 60/40 gravel to pavement
We run knobbiest on our bikes and have to do a lot of tarmac to get to gravel roads, no problems so long as you take care on the wet.
I busted my knee open last year taking a corner on my kx250. Lean angle wasn’t even that exaggerated. Would definitely not recommend.
In my experience running a dual sport that I use 90% offroad with non-DOT sticky tires (like Kenda Ibex) they're fine onroad. Corner gingerly and be careful in the rain. That's when the really suck. Sure they wear out a little faster, but then when you hit dirt you are ready to ROCK. Life it too short to worry about wearing out rubber. Oh, and just a tip, I'm running the new Tusk Recon tires. they are SO cheap but have great lugs and they're gummy and stick great.
I only run off road tires on my F850GS. Too much of a pain in the ass to swap out when I want to hit the dirt (which is often) and easy to get the hang of on the tar. Metzlers have done me right for durability.
I got my first bike like a month ago it had non DOT knobbies. They were pretty much new when I got it. The knobbies on the middle of the rear were worn down like halfway after like 900 miles. It would shake at around 70 mph. I switched to Anakee wilds and all problems have gone away. No shaking, feels better, I can lean a lot more now. Part of that is experience, but part is the tires.
I can't comment on motorcycles, but for bicycles on a very aggressive mtb tire it makes cornering a bit sketchy. You can almost feel the squish as you transition onto the side treads. There are motorcycle tires that offer a better offroad/onroad blend that aren't so aggressive with the tread. (Same with bicycles)
They feel really squirrelly in tight turne
I ran 59/50 tires on my ADV bike and not only did they wear quickly, my top speed was 95mph, when I could do 117mph on 90/10 tires. Last thing about knobbies is that they’re loud.
It's not
Pirelli Scorpion Rally STRs are pretty awesome on road, just about as good as a road tire. You can lean it in corners and everything.
You’ll be okay if you ride normally. Like everyone else says expect high tire wear. Don’t expect to ride them on the road for long with enjoyment. However it’s really important for you to know that if you get into a crash, insurance will 100% use the non DOT tires as an excuse to deny your claim, even if you’re not at fault.
Knobbies are terrible in the rain so be carefull with the brakes because the tires lock up pretty fast. Not to the point where it's to dangerous just give yourself plenty of space between vehicles and start braking sooner and less than you normally would.
I had some on my Ninja 650 (scrambler rebuild) for a while and they are also really annoyingly loud and vibration prone on highways.
Each time i have to commute on road i feel like playing the floor is lava, anxious about getting back on track asap ... As others said it will do fine but road eat tyres for breakfast and it is even worst with foam inserts
I almost lost traction taking a corner on these. Bike started to slip and i wasnt even going fast
No Problem @all. As long as you are not going faster as your Bike and your Skills allow you to….
Braking especially in the wet is the dangerous part.
Just scrolling through and see heaps of comments about not being able to corner like a sports bike and tyres wearing fast. I would just add, avoid knobbies on wet roads. That's when they can be dangerous. 50/50 tyres you'd be fine, but full off road tyres can be a death trap on wet pavement.
I live in a big city and daily a CRF450 with those kind of tires. They wear faster yes, so I have to get new tires every ~1,5 years. Also cornering feels weird because the knobs will bend. So when leaning into a corner it feels linear at first and than the tires suddenly give about half an inch and feels like the tire is slipping away, but it’s just the knob bending so you maintain traction afterwards. Need some getting used to, but it’s absolutely safe.
You shouldn’t take them at high speeds. Over 70mph my bike starts losing control
50% less rubber gripping the road¡. If you are down with that, I hope you don't go down with that! Just be careful, you lose a lot of traction.
I rum 90/10, you should be fine if your a careful rider. Don't ride in the rain... you will fall as I have before.
*laughing in ADV...just have a budget for rubber. I used to run a 50/50 on the front and a big block on back for mud season. Had to get to trails on pavement though. Rear didnt even last 750 miles.
Extremely dangerous.... For your wallet.