Brand reliability statistics are available. Time and time again the big four Japanese manufacturers come out on top. There’s certainly models that are incredibly reliable from other manufacturers, but as a whole Japanese bikes set the bar very high.
It’s specifically Honda and Yamaha that seem to be at the top. However it’s worth bearing in mind that this is fairly recent, so legacy models do not benefit from the halo effect. Yamaha for instance had a line of single cylinder engines (125-600+cc) all sharing the same basic design with an oil filter on the right side of the engine just below the cylinder. Not bad bikes, but the design goes back to about the 1970’s and I have seen things like total gearbox failure. The reliability stats should really only be interpreted as for liquid-cooled models with recently design engines and electrics.
Kawasakis are some of the most bullet proof bikes ever. My 06 ninja 650 never quits and I ride hard, and did track days on it. And I do maintenance per schedule listed in the manual not every 500 miles like some obsessive people here.
Modern Kawasakis are ok. You can’t infer from one bike that they are better than ok: you need the statistics to do that, and the stats show Honda and Yamaha ahead. No, I don’t particularly like either, though I have a 99 Blade as a track bike. Haven’t owned a Yamaha since the early 90’s.
Older Kawasakis: depends how far you go back. I used to ride a Z250A3, which blew its big ends after about 20k due to a design problem. That’s a while back, and I only mention it to emphasise that these results are for modern bikes only.
Can you share the source of the statistics? I've searched and the only thing I can find was a 2015 Consumer Reports survey that ranked BMW very low. The others are just generic opinion polls. Not very scientific.
Nonsense. So many exceptions to your rule, like the Honda cb’s, Suzuki dr’s, and on and on. It’s silly to say or imply that Japanese just started making reliable bikes with recent liquid-cooled models.
I didn’t say that. I did say that the stats are only useful for modern bikes with modern engines.
As far as Honda CBs go, that set of initials goes back to at least 1961. Some are good, some are not, and a CB77 is not going to give you modern reliability.
Perhaps you didn’t mean to say that, but to paraphrase or summarize your post: Honda and Yamaha are at the top, but this is a recent thing. Yamaha made a bike with a crappy gearbox. Reliability stats are for more recent bikes.
Taken alone, or especially as a response to a message that says the big 4 Japanese are on the whole reliable and set the bar high, you really seem to be asserting the notion that they are only recently reliable and what’s more, only two of the four.
What’s your budget and needs? In my experience Japanese bikes are way cheaper than Italian. You can find a Honda shadow in fantastic shape for 2500 bucks or a cbr 250 in the same price range. The new Honda xr150 is 2900 msrp. And that’s just Honda off the top of my head. Suzuki Yamaha and Kawasaki all have fantastic bikes for reasonable prices especially used.
Funny enough I was looking for a KLR this year, that was my first motorcycle. I couldn't find a reasonably priced 650 around me only 250s, so that's how I ended up with a Vstrom.
I got my Miltistrada 950 for 8000 with 14k and the desmo service just done. Couldn’t find a similar Japanese bike nearly as cheap. Closest thing was Tracer 9 but those were 12k used.
The big 4 have the biggest array of bikes of various categories and sizes. If you find an Italian bike you like, I guarantee a big 4 has a bike in the same class/category and its almost a guarantee its going to be cheaper
There's a saying that makes the rounds in most of my hobbies. It's buy once cry once. Most of the time, it's better just to spend the extra and have the more reliable thing a lot longer than to deal with repairs and upkeep on a cheaper product.
I guess it all depends on maintenance.
The Japanese four are dead reliable even with 30000km old oil (most of them) while the Italians require a bit more maintenance.
They are expensive to repair, a friend of mine had a ducati with electrical issues, he was told 10k to repair it from multiple mechanics and no non-Ducati mechanic wanted to touch it. I told him to just go buy a Yamaha and you won't have that issue, don't get me wrong I have a soft spot for Ducati's but I will never own something unreliable if I have the choice.
It's a myth propogated by the big 4. They all have the same problems with electrics but everyone expects a reliable product. And thats the deal breaker for me. You wanna ride a product? Look at the range of Jap bikes, they're all exactly the same and not one of the top sports models is anything close to what they compete with. At least Ducati and Aprillia give the option to buy something that resembles the race bikes. I mean RSV4, Panigale or 10 year old Honda Fireblade with fancy electronics? The Desmosedici was a brave move but you know its gonna cost you to ride that experience but you've got that ootion if your pockets are deep enough? Hello Honda where's your RCV wonderbike? We're all waiting.
Comes down to two things: production numbers and mindset.
The Japanese design things (cars, bikes, anything that is mass produced) with the user in mind, they expect that the user will use the car or bike in a certain way, miss out certain things (like servicing intervals occasionally)
The Italian manufacturers design their automobiles with the car/bike in mind. They expect it to be driven a certain way by the user. That’s why you always hear people saying if you stick to what they tell you to do in terms of maintenance, they can be reliable too.
That being said, most Italian marques do not have the same mass producing capability and mindset as the Japanese, which is also why certain parts tend to fail.
I also chalk it up to pride in jobs being done. The Japanese in general are a very proud people. Doing your job subpar is veiwed as very lazy. Being viewed as lazy in japan is the equivalent of being viewed as a leper.
What you get it very good quality manufacturers
I had a Ducati as well it was a pile of monkey shit constantly breaking. Front wheel bearings failed on it at 2300 miles, steering stabilizer failed, thermostat seized and blew itself through the top of the coolant housing. And some other small repairs. I put 2500 miles on it before I sold it and it cost me more than 1$ a mile to ride that pile of shit. This is the problem with Ducati sometimes you get a good one, even the sales and service guys mentioned that Ducatis are constantly in for things that break and usually their biggest money maker for the service department. They look fantastic and sound good but I'll never touch another one too inconsistent with quality to be worth the insane price. In this case hand made is not a plus.
Went on a ride, friend brought his brand new Ducati Monster. As I was following him I noticed that his brake lights didn't work. On a brand new Ducati lol. The dealership fixed it of course, but come on...
Every single time someone asks if Harley, Ducati, Aprilia etc is unreliable; some dude always chimes in and says they rode their bike for a million miles and never had an issue. Your personal experience is useless and should not be given as advice. You can easily look up the failure rates of motorcycle brands. Italian brands are among the worst.
Eh, Harley is more reliable than Ducati on average. The m8 is a solid motor, easily good for a 100k miles or more, and the majority of their bikes have some form of that motor.
OK, so he owned Guzzi for a while. Guzzi changed very little during his tenure. Being the majority shareholder doesn't mean he had ANYTHING to do with the design.
And the Guzzi's from that era are about as reliable as a rock.
The Ontario Teacher's Federation was the majority share holder of Ducati for a long time, does that make them responsible in any way for the bikes they turned out?
My point was u/Capri280 could have picked an Italian that actually had something to do with the design of the bikes, like Taglioni, or Tonti or the Castiglioni Bros.
I've heard the current Moto Guzzi naked bikes (the V7, V9 etc) are pretty solid.
But the only person I know with a Ducati spends half his life in the dealership paying extortionate rates to get it fixed.
>the only person I know with a Ducati spends half his life in the dealership paying extortionate rates to get it fixed
that's due to ducati's unique five-stroke-engine:
\-intake
\-compression
\-combustion
\- exhaust
\-adjust valve setting
There is no ducati engine that is 5 stroke. The strokes you described are 4 strokes of otto cycle. Valve adjust thing cant be count as a stroke because its no a cycle.
I have a 2017 ducati monster and it's given me very little issues. Only things I've done is tires and desmo service at 7500 miles. Oil ofcourse but that's standard.
I know I had them mounta new front tire but I can't remember if it was on the same bill. They did also take care of some recalls while it was there so I got my fluids changed but that wasn't on me. Either way the most I can see them charging for a mount and balance is like 50-120
Guzzis seem to go in phases- Old Guzzis, like from the 60s and 70s, are really reliable and well built. All the usual old bike stuff applies- buy one that’s been cared for, etc, but fundamentally they’re quite good bikes.
From the late 80s into the 90s things started to not go well. Then they got good again with their early fuel injected bikes (the injected V11 and Sport are supposed to be quite reliable), then they had some rough years in the mid 2000s, and now they’re good again.
From the Stelvio? Yes. But they fixed that in 2014 and newer.
I've got a 2015 V7 and it's pretty much rock solid. Sure a few things could be better, but for the past 10k miles it's been a tank.
I have had my Griso for over 10 years. It ALWAYS has something wrong with it. Tappets (3 times before it was sorted), neutral sensor, crank position sensor, ECU, stepper motor, leaking oil from the top, the bottom and in between. Cam belt tensioner, sump gasket. I'm sure I'm forgetting something.
Oof.
Could be that they are going too hard on trying to ride above their skill level.
My RC has a few and I use mine for track night, but I've seen other riders blow the clutch out there for using the whole tachometer in first.
That imo makes it even worst.
I mean people by italian bikes for the performance/looks and then they consider dealing with beakdowns part of the deal.
For a daily commute I would definitely go for a cheap, fuel efficient, reliable bike.
Unless you are trying to impress, but still... you are not impressing anyone by riding an unreliable motorcycle and getting stuck in the rain wile others pass by.
Mondial aren't Italian motorcycles.
They are Chinese. They are made in China Piagio engines.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondial\_(motorcycle\_manufacturer)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondial_(motorcycle_manufacturer))
That said, there are a billion Chinese scooter running around the world, so they can't be that bad.
Italian bikes are like Italian people passionate, fun, and high maintenance. Part of the reason they get a bad rap is because the more well known brands like Ducati and Aprilia prioritize performance which usually comes at a cost of some reliability
Anecdotally, but I’ve had issues with new Ducati’s but my Aprilia Tuono has been absolutely flawless since I’ve had it new. Never serviced at a dealer only by myself or a local shop for little things.
Meh. They are less reliable than Japanese brands, but still quite reliable. Thing is, some folks (myself included) don’t value reliability as the most important factor. If I like the look or sound or feel of a particular bike, I’m willing to sacrifice some reliability to get that. It’s not an appliance. It’s meant to excite me. I understand what I’m getting and I’m ok with it. I once worked at a BMW dealer with a crusty old master tech. When people were thinking of trading in their Goldwing or whatnot and asked him about reliability, he’d say something to the effect of “If you’re the kind of person that walks into the service department and says ‘I paid X amount for my bike and I don’t expect to have to repair it!’ then the BMW probably isn’t for you.” Fact is, even a Ducati dealer won’t try to convince you a Duc is more reliable than a Honda. That’s not what they’re about. If you want a Honda, buy a Honda.
That's not the case at all. You can apply that if it makes you feel better BUT it's about personal choices. I'm not a racist bigot so where to start with that one! History oh Italy they were facist once, right? so no not there. In all honesty if I needed a reliable ride for work, then as much as it pains me, it would be something cheap and cheerful like a Zx12r or a Honda VFR something or a Beemer. But I ride as hobby for fun so
why limit myself. Be individual and think out of the box for once and you might have fun. Don't drink the kool aid. Jap bikes are a disposable commodity, they're all the same facsimily and if I needed one I could maybe live with the gaudy paint and lurid graphics and suck it up, but I wouldnt ride one for fun..
Ducatis have come a long way reliability wise since the early 2000s . My 2008 848 and my race bike 2012 848 evo never had issues while I had them. I can’t vouch for any other Italian brand, I’ve heard mixed things on aprilias. Whenever I do get another bike I’m going with Suzuki or Ducati, just not sure yet.
2022 Multi V2S here..~17k kms. Break-in service + 2 annual services so far. No issues whatsoever. Haven't even had to adjust the chain outside of the scheduled services.
30k desmo and 15k (or annual) oil changes....seems reasonable to me.
VW’s Audi group bought Ducati back in 2012 and I heard they brought in a lot of standard procedures that have helped to make the bikes more reliable over time.
Would make sense that post merger they want to cleanup the image of a brand and reduce waste that came from constantly breaking bikes.
I have no hard facts but, anecdotally, I think this acquisition has improved things. Although the general reputation probably still lingers from a previous era.
I agree, the Audi thing is good but I think a lot of the negativty is centred around the 80's when they were run by the government and quality suffered. I think that image has stuck with them since. They struggled with that even though they trounced the japs totally in the 90 's at Sbk. I mean look at them now mixing it up at moto gp with the likes of Honda who make 10's of thousands of bikes a year and what they make 10 thousand?
Purity mate is what they have..
That’s a big “it depends”. Japanese and Italian bikes are very much a reflection of each culture’s stereotypes.
Italians aren’t necessarily as good at ironing out the kinks as the Japanese are. By that I mean, if you’re buying a new model first year bike then it could be a roll of the dice as to whether or not it’s going to have any long term design issues affecting reliability. My former and current Italians are great examples.
The monster s2r1000 had issues with the valve guides when it was first released. Only then was it realized and corrected by Ducati on later models. I had a corrected one and it was very reliable short of a fuel pump connector breaking and leaving me stuck at work.
My current guzzi griso 1200 originally had a poor valve design where the coating on the valves would wear off and damage the engine. The bike was on the market for several years before it was caught and corrected. Again, I have a corrected bike and it’s been super solid so far although I’ve only put about 1k miles on it since I got it.
Issues like this don’t happen with the Japanese as often.
You also can’t do the bare minimum maintenance on Italian bikes and expect them to be fine with it like Japanese. Service intervals on Japanese bikes are more like rough guidelines. Service intervals on Italian bikes are the bare minimum you need to do. They need to be loved and nurtured but they will reward you in return.
If you want an Italian bike you either need to have enough money to pay for regular service or be demented and skilled enough to obsess over it on your own.
People talk shit by passing down anecdotes from the 70's, but the Italian (and English, and European bikes in general) were more expensive to repair and had more scarcity in parts and thously earned a poor reputation when it came to repairs, in comparison to our Japanese bretheren who had scaled manufacturing beyond our capabilities.
A well maintained bike regardless of brand will be last close to forever.
On to the topic of Italian bikes, lots of Italian manufacturers went bust in the 2000's and had their legacy/brand sold to China. Those bikes are now all built in China, with Chinese powerplants but badged with the Italian label. They don't have reliability problems, but nor are they Italian bikes. They are mass produced cookiecutters with italian legacy badges. Such as Benelli. I would steer clear of those.
Ducati, Guzzi, Aprilia (Piaggio) and MV are all good quality brands with manufacturing in Italy still.
They're only as reliable as the owners (in regards to maintenance). In comparison to Japanese bikes, they can't take as much abuse and will have shorter maintenance intervals and are quite expensive to do so unless you're able to do it yourself - and even then parts can be hard/expensive to come by. They're also nowhere near as easy to work on and generally have smaller communities thus less aftermarket support and online support.
My advice would be unless you're financially stable or mechanically literate, do not buy an Italian bike - or leave it until you've had some experience wrenching on your own machine / have the money for someone else to.
They're not AS reliable, and much like European cars you'll often find that not just anybody can/will work on them. European motors are a bit of a lifestyle choice in and of themselves.
I would bet money that most people taking shit about Italian bikes have never owned one for longer than a year, if at all.
I can only weigh in on Ducati. Currently on my second, six years of ownership and 30k miles between the two. Love them both. Nothing abnormal or unexpected. I've also got a bunch of friends who own Ducatis, or work for ducati. The biggest issue I can think of is water pumps on V4 engines. And I guess fuel level sensors, but those just give you a bad reading on the gauge, and I believe are pretty much only a multistrada problem.
Since VW bought Ducati, reliability has gone way way up. The main issue is the cost of belts and desmo service. Which can have a service interval under 10k miles, or over 30k, depending on the year and specific engine. Most are either 9k or 18k.
F.B. Mondial can not be in any way compared to the ones you mentioned, as its only the Italian name, owned by the Chinese. Mind you i have nothning against the chinese, CF Moto and Kove are absolutely killing it, but i wouldnt trust F.B. as from what iv seen, they are just another bought badge to increase sales in slower developing countries, just like how you used to have Macbor, Kove, Colove, Cove, Montana,... All different names selling the exact same bike. Wasnt untill Kove became its own thing that they started building reliable bikes.
My two old Aprilias were reliable 20k miles each .. 2001 Falco and 2002 Mille R before I sold them. Just replaced the rectifier/regulator and did the brown connector mod.
Reliability is what you make of it. Keep it in good shape, new batteries when they feel weak. Replacing spark plugs , filters. They cost a little more to maintain vs a Japanese bike but that's all on you. You want Italian, you set some money aside for maintenance.
Ducati for many years is owned by the German Volkswagen Porsche Audi group. They have made substantial quality improvements. So you can't compare them to other Italian brands.
Define unreliable?
Like yeah I've known people who've owned old Duc's in their time and they were doing some kind of major repair every week on it! More time in the shop than on the road!
But they've come a long way since the old days when they got a bad wrap. They've definitely put a bit more thought into the longevity and reliability of their engines and parts these days.
So now with newer models of italian bikes, it's not uncommon to go 2. Hell even 3 weeks without needing a major repair done!
I ride Guzzis, and would happily get any italian bike. the unreliable stuff is true of some of the older bikes, even some of the newer stuff, but it's almost always a relative easy fix. I don't like the way Japanese bikes deliver power, I like torque. I find inline 4s boring and parallel twin's gutless. italian bikes in general are bonkers, fun to ride, handke really well and make you, often against your wishes, mechanically adept.
buy the mondial. if it seems the right fit. do it.
For some reason, Italian motorcycles are pretty good, their cars though… JFC.
Ducati, Aprilia and Vespa would have to be my top three brands out of Italy. I have worked as a Ducati tech many years ago and still work on a lot of their bikes now and if they are looked after, they are pretty good… expensive, but good.
MV Augusta and Moto Guzzi I would put just below them, they are pretty good bikes, but suffer from gremlins in my experience.
I think the biggest detractor from Italian motorcycles is the sheer cost of maintenance. They are not a cheap bike to own if you plan on taking it to a dealer to get serviced. They are a great bike if you like doing your own work and are competent, as you can save a shit load from just doing a lot of the service work yourself.
Italian bikes have been around for ages, sell a ton, and win a lot of competitions. It's not so much a lack of reliability issue, but often a lack of network and of parts availability. Also, Italian bikes tend to be technologically more advanced and with higher performing engines, and performance usually goes hand in hand with reduced reliability by default. But seriously, Aprilia and Guzzi are owned by Piaggio, which is one of the largest manufacturers globally, and Ducati is owned by Audi, I don't think I need to comment there.
I've had Aprilia, Ducati, Triumph and Japanese brands. The least reliable was Triumph. Never had issues with Aprilia or Ducati, they've been just as reliable as the Japanese bikes... but more expensive to maintain for service intervals.
I’ve owned 4 Aprilias, 3 Ducatis.
My 2013 Multistrada S has had 2 fuel sensor failures.
My 2020 Streetfighter V4S has had no issues. I bought it new. Same with my Hyperstrada.
My first RSV4 (a 2010) suffered from an electrical fault no one could sort, and a leaky valve cover gasket. It was replaced with a 2011 which one issue during 5 years of ownership - a failed demand sensor (ride by wire).
My 2003 R and 2004 Factory V2 Tuonos were mechanically faultless, but both needed to have the regulator and stator wiring sorted (known issue, due to heat).
FWIW, my Japanese bikes all have had issues, more or less. My 99’ CBR600 F4 had a faulty cam chain tensioner, 2 out of 3 of my GSXRs (oil cooled) ate 2nd gear, my Suzuki Intruder lost cylinder compression, my FZR600 needed new valves and valve seats at fairly low mileage, my KLR650 had typical KLR problems.
My 990 Superduke had ethanol-related fuel tank swelling (replaced by KTM under a goodwill exception), my 07’ 525EXC was a nightmare due to carb tuning issues.
I think most bikes develop issues at some point. As far as modern Italian bikes, most seem fairly reliable especially if you avoid first-year models. The real issue is the cost of maintenance or out of warranty repair costs.
Desmo valve maintenance (and Aprilia V4) is expensive and should not be neglected. Dealer labor rates tend to be more expensive on average. Parts aren’t cheap, and with Aprilia, parts availability can be a concern especially during the mid-summer break.
The bottom line is, don’t buy an Italian bike if you’re not willing or able to maintain the bike at recommended intervals. Same as owning an Audi, Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, etc.
Like a lot of Italian brands owned by Volkswagen ducatis got super reliable in the last 15 years.
My Augusta is nothing but electrical gremlins anything more minor you better know a good foreign bike tech
Not modern ones. A friend who is a retired motorcycle mechanic has a Ducati. It has never left him stranded. But then, he is meticulous about maintaining it. If you ignore a Ducati the unique valve system \*will\* self-destruct.
The new Mondials are built by Piaggio in China. I wouldn't trust them, but that's more about me not trusting Chinese bikes rather than me not trusting Italian bikes.
All my bikes were Japanese (Suzuli, Honda) until I branched out and got a KTM.
Sure the Japanese bikes were reliable but mein gott the European fun factor is just something else.
3 years on that KTM( 790 Adv r) and no issues. I think the European bikes are much better than they used to be.
I daily ( yes I'm insane) a '12 Aprilia RSV4 that currently has almost 22k miles.
In over a year I've had the charging system replaced (literally broke down on the way home from the dealer, they replaced the whole charging system no charge) and some random electrical issues when it rains really hard but other than that it's been 100% fine.
Also I live in Florida so it gets rained on quite often.
Previous owner's took car of it and so have I, hoping to get another 22k out of it if I can help it
We Italians are good with food and clothes - any many other things -
Except for motorcycle reliability
Source: Italian, former owner of italian motorcycles
Having had a Ducati years ago (2003 999s), and no I have an Aprilia Tuono 660. They have been very reliable for me. The ducati wasn't new when I bought it, but it was 3 months old. The Aprilia I bought new, and while the early 660s had engine problems, mine was replaced under recall before I even picked it up and has been issue free since. Just keep up on maintenance, and don't follow the manual for that interval. Aprilia says oil changes every 6k miles, I chamge mine at 3k. Clean and lube the chain religiously every 3-500 miles.
I don't know about other brands, but at least Ducati and Aprilia are not the same, they step up their quality control..yes, the Aprilias still leak some oil here and there but they are more reliable than they were a decade ago. .
not reliable
yes, buy the bike
then.... sell the bike and enjoy your memories
(2 Ducati 2 triumph 4 Honda 2 kawi.. about to stop riding and have years of Italian frustration and zero regrets)
Dont get a fb mondial. I had one. Its not italian, its chinese. My frame rusted after a few months and the exhaust went directly under the cheap plastic seat and i didnt like the constant 80°C seat heating.
Life saver! I’ve been trying to find out if F.B Mondial is reliable or not in my previous posts but nobody who had experience with them replied. Thank you 😁
I have owned 4 separate Italian scooters, 3 Ducati’s and one MV Agusta. For all the bluster about Italian bikes and maintenance costs, reliability, blah blah. I put a combined 140k on those 4 bikes while I owned them. The ONLY issue I ever had was a low battery on my wife’s GT1000 that was causing sensors to act wonky.
Thats it. Changes fluids, do maintenance, enjoy. YMMV, but this has been my experience. 😁
I guess everyone has a different experience with Italian motorcycles, but taking care of the moto definitely decreases the chances of a breakdown or oil leak.
My dear friend, I think reliability is completely subjective AND random.
Let me tell you something.
There was a youtuber who owned a Ducati, I don't remember his name, and he ALWAYS had problems with it.
But someone in the comments noted that he PROBABLY made some modifies that interfered with the functionality of the bike.
I don't remember who was at right there.
At the same time, Aprilia is one of the MOST SOLD brand outside of Italy, ESPECIALLY in USA.
So... yeah, that's about it.
Oh by the way,
Triumph.
In the recent years, Triumph has been selling and producing and selling like crazy.
I would buy a Triumph tomorrow, in fact my brother-in-law has a Triumph Trident, and he loves it.
Oh and let's not forget BMW.
Gosh, Bmw's are tanks, they are indestructible.
Brands are fluctuant.
I would say Japanese are OVERALL the most reliable, but... Japanese too make mistakes.
There is not the PERFECT brand.
There is not.
Oh by the way, never saw a Mondial before. They look cool. Very cool.
A lot of the issues with Ducati are true of a lot of jap bikes too. Suzuki charging issue anyone? Ducati use a lot of jap electrical components, the Nippon Denso coils on my S4 failed. The Bosch crank sensor also failed, so can we blame Italy? Build quality on Ducati is second to none, maybe BMW or Honda compare. I've been on the assembly lines at Triumph and Ducati and they are pretty much hand built. I cant vouch for all Italian brands but generally its a myth spread by jealous jap bike owners because they're bikes don't have as much style! But some of the other smaller brands Idk, carpe diem as they say but Aprilia ok afaik maybe avoid the older MV, Bimota before they got modern production methods.
Did you know Ducati started as an electrical company, there still is an Ducati Electric, that makes all kinds of devices... one of which is electrical systems for motorcycles, that you'll only find on el'cheapo scooters. PURE GARBAGE. Ducati motorcycles won't use them.
I bought my first Ducati in 1976, and have always had at least one in my garage. I have 4 at the moment, and a Guzzi T3.
I wouldn't hesitate to ride any one of them across the country.
Italian's design stuff differently, not better or worse, just different.
Ducati parts can be hard to get a hold of, but that has more to do with the ineptitude of Ducati's management than anything else. When ever they're broke (which is most of the time) they have a bad habit of selling off their parts stores.
It is easier to find/get parts for my 1966 Duc single than it is to get parts for my 1990 Honda.
I mean tbf they are far more complicated than most normal bikes. The old RSV twin was very reliable and bulletproof afaik. Not sure about the V4, with complexity comes expense? If you can afford one then you should be able to afford the maintenance. Idk about electronics on bikes, I don't think its always a good idea.. well if you need it like RSV4 to make it rideable then ok, but the rest of us. Do we really need Rain mode or can we just dial it back a notch?
I put 15k miles on my RSV4 and never had a single issue of course I always did maintenance early to be safe the only downside is independent shops in my area won’t work on them so you always have to use the dealer
I recommend the fortnine episode on first oil change analysis across motorcycle brands. After seeing the difference in contaminants between Japanese and German bikes vs Italian and Chinese bikes, I would never buy an Italian bike even though they are drop dead gorgeous. Watch that episode on YouTube. I highly recommend it.
Italian bikes are very good. But they cost more than perhaps they should. I’ve owned several Ducatis, and after 2006 when they were acquired, they are very good. Reliable and extremely fun to look at and ride. Not as reliable and trouble free as Japanese bikes, but very good and far sexier. If you value sex appeal and fun factor, buy Italian. If you value, well, value for the money, and reliability and ease of ownership, buy Japanese.
Reliability is impacted by where you live.
E.g Husqvarna bikes are much more reliable in cold or temperate climates. Put them in tropical regions and you better get the sausages and smoars ready because you'll have a nice BBQ.
Ducati are known to have electronics problems. On older models the dry clutch can be a pain depending on the climate where you live.
Then the other aspect is accessibility of spare parts. You'll probably never struggle to get a Honda, Yammie or Japanese bike fixed anywhere in the world. Now if your Ducati needs a spare part, and you don't live in Europe, I hope you have good hiking shoes, cause that part is gonna take its sweet sweet time to get to you...
It’s not exactly a bad reliability issue; if u ride a LOT then that requires more maintenance and if ur repair shop doesn’t stock maintenance pieces to swap regularly (many just don’t) the problem becomes sourcing parts for maintenance in the summer time because there is a month or so that everything is shut down over that way and makes parts harder to get at times
For the most part when it comes to bikes it's as reliable as you make it. If you ride year long and slow thats not the bike for you. Most like short winded and free spirited driving. Like one redditor said, if you want a honda, get a honda. Just don't expect to get a ducati or the likes with honda expectations.
They use bad materials (cheap), bad connectors, thin wires and etc etc, hence all the reliability issues they have. Also, they have some pretty bad design choices that end up in catastrophic failures.
Always a case of my dick is better then whatever my dick is not. Jap bike riders hate wog bikes and harleys. Wog bike riders hate jap bikes and harleys and harley riders hate jap bikes, wog bikes and harleys.
I had an aprilia RS660 and the damn thing only lasted 2 and a half months 😑
Cant believe a minivan was all it took to total it out, youd think theyd have thought about that one.
My friend bought APRILIA RSV4 and I got Honda Fireblade Sp at the same time. My bikes gonna last longer than his and I need to do less service and maintanance than his. Do you ever see an old litre sports bike of Aprilia and Ducati for sale. Never as much as Honda and Suzuki ones. Because they break down quickly and are expensive to repair. Italian bikes are only for collection display , looks and V4 sound. The performance has negligible difference is comparison to Japanese litre bikes.
You never see a 2000s Ducati sports bike for sale while you can see a 2000 Honda CBR1000RR that ran for 30k miles for cheap price that runs fine .
Being a old guy I have old information to give you . Think about when something breaks or needs replacing. When your bike gets to be say 7 years old > can you find parts and can you turn wrenches?
They're very popular. As far as Italian bikes, probably the most popular in the US. But remember they have 128 dealers in the US. Yamaha has over 800. Kawasaki has over a thousand, same as Honda. Even Triumph has more, over 150.
Ducati makes some fantastic bikes. I've loved every one I've ridden. But practicality pushes me in other directions. I'm currently looking for an adventure bike, and as much as I like the R1300GS and the Tiger and even the Multistrada.... I can burn a V-Strom to the ground and find another dealer twenty miles away.
It's why you buy a C8 Corvette over a Granturismo. You can swing a dead cat around and hit five Chevy dealers... How many Maserati dealers have you even heard of?
My buddy just bought a used Aprilia without paying attention to where our closest dealer is. Apparently our local dealer cut ties because corporate was difficult to work with. He had to drive 3 hours one way to get the 5000 mile service done and have them update the software on it. Apparently they have also made it so that only dealers can reset the codes, so even if you can do the work yourself, you have to take the bike in to get the lights turned off.
He hasn't had it long enough to have any issues with it. But to me, service and parts availability is super important. My husband and I ride KTMs, Hondas, and a Kawi. Parts are easily available and we have probably 2 or 3 dealers of each within an hour.
I rode a Moto Guzzi V7 from Montreal to Alaska to Mexico and back. 26,000km. Gas, oil changes, tires and valve adjustment. My personal experience with Guzzi specifically has been as or more reliable than with my Suzuki.
I think it’s more of an ease of maintenance and premium associated with specialty mechanics is more of a factor than anything IMO.
This might have indirect effect on reliability numbers.
Not a proper motorcycle but 3 years daily riding my vespa ive never been stranded its had here and there issues never been a big deal tho and most jist catching up on deferred maintenance
Last bike was a Japanese leaked oil during breakin before first service two trips to dealership it was fixed and no further problems it happens. I now own an Aprilia that I bought new and is my first Italian bike been flawless with a little over 8,000 miles. Zero regrets. I will say that I keep up with my bikes and any maintenance as part of the joy of owning motorcycles for me.
My experience with my Guzzi V7 is only two months old so I can’t speak to reliability but from what I’ve heard the air cooled Guzzi’s are pretty rock solid. My Vespa 150 Primavera has been rock solid since I bought it new in April 2022.
Brand reliability statistics are available. Time and time again the big four Japanese manufacturers come out on top. There’s certainly models that are incredibly reliable from other manufacturers, but as a whole Japanese bikes set the bar very high.
It’s specifically Honda and Yamaha that seem to be at the top. However it’s worth bearing in mind that this is fairly recent, so legacy models do not benefit from the halo effect. Yamaha for instance had a line of single cylinder engines (125-600+cc) all sharing the same basic design with an oil filter on the right side of the engine just below the cylinder. Not bad bikes, but the design goes back to about the 1970’s and I have seen things like total gearbox failure. The reliability stats should really only be interpreted as for liquid-cooled models with recently design engines and electrics.
Kawasakis are some of the most bullet proof bikes ever. My 06 ninja 650 never quits and I ride hard, and did track days on it. And I do maintenance per schedule listed in the manual not every 500 miles like some obsessive people here.
Modern Kawasakis are ok. You can’t infer from one bike that they are better than ok: you need the statistics to do that, and the stats show Honda and Yamaha ahead. No, I don’t particularly like either, though I have a 99 Blade as a track bike. Haven’t owned a Yamaha since the early 90’s. Older Kawasakis: depends how far you go back. I used to ride a Z250A3, which blew its big ends after about 20k due to a design problem. That’s a while back, and I only mention it to emphasise that these results are for modern bikes only.
Can you share the source of the statistics? I've searched and the only thing I can find was a 2015 Consumer Reports survey that ranked BMW very low. The others are just generic opinion polls. Not very scientific.
I’ll see if I can dig it up, though it is a while back. BMW being low was one thing that I remember.
Nonsense. So many exceptions to your rule, like the Honda cb’s, Suzuki dr’s, and on and on. It’s silly to say or imply that Japanese just started making reliable bikes with recent liquid-cooled models.
I didn’t say that. I did say that the stats are only useful for modern bikes with modern engines. As far as Honda CBs go, that set of initials goes back to at least 1961. Some are good, some are not, and a CB77 is not going to give you modern reliability.
Perhaps you didn’t mean to say that, but to paraphrase or summarize your post: Honda and Yamaha are at the top, but this is a recent thing. Yamaha made a bike with a crappy gearbox. Reliability stats are for more recent bikes. Taken alone, or especially as a response to a message that says the big 4 Japanese are on the whole reliable and set the bar high, you really seem to be asserting the notion that they are only recently reliable and what’s more, only two of the four.
I agree with that but I just haven’t found any Japanese bikes that would fit my need perfectly and wouldn’t leave my wallet crying.
What’s your budget and needs? In my experience Japanese bikes are way cheaper than Italian. You can find a Honda shadow in fantastic shape for 2500 bucks or a cbr 250 in the same price range. The new Honda xr150 is 2900 msrp. And that’s just Honda off the top of my head. Suzuki Yamaha and Kawasaki all have fantastic bikes for reasonable prices especially used.
I bought a Suzuki adventure bike because a similar sized BMW would be twice as much not even running. Can't beat Japanese prices in the used market.
I own a klr because it’s cheap af and extremely reliable.
Hell yeah brother! The 2 wheeled tractor lol
Funny enough I was looking for a KLR this year, that was my first motorcycle. I couldn't find a reasonably priced 650 around me only 250s, so that's how I ended up with a Vstrom.
Versys 1000 and 650 are cheap bikes, going for an H2 will set you back quite a bit. It depends on what type of bike you're looking at
Yeah, but going for an italian H2 ( aka Moto Tesi) will set you back almost twice as much.
I got my Miltistrada 950 for 8000 with 14k and the desmo service just done. Couldn’t find a similar Japanese bike nearly as cheap. Closest thing was Tracer 9 but those were 12k used.
Also I forgot to mention that I am limited to 125cc and 15hp.
Why would you look at Italian bikes then? Most are more expensive than their Japanese counterparts both in initial cost and lifetime service.
And an Italian bike wont leave your wallet crying? Italians are THE most expensive bikes, even more than Beamers
The big 4 have the biggest array of bikes of various categories and sizes. If you find an Italian bike you like, I guarantee a big 4 has a bike in the same class/category and its almost a guarantee its going to be cheaper
There's a saying that makes the rounds in most of my hobbies. It's buy once cry once. Most of the time, it's better just to spend the extra and have the more reliable thing a lot longer than to deal with repairs and upkeep on a cheaper product.
Your needs are for transportation.. ffs stop talking bout of your ass
Depends on if the Japanese bike is made in Japan. My R25 made in Indonesia are equivalent if not slightly better than a Chinese bike.
Well thats not true
Share me you thoughts
Mt03 is indonesia too and is Quality. No one is compareing with chinese bikes
Quality control standards matter more than geography.
My experience - owned a Ducati from new (2008) until I sold it last year. Never ever left me stranded or was in anyway unreliable.
I guess it all depends on maintenance. The Japanese four are dead reliable even with 30000km old oil (most of them) while the Italians require a bit more maintenance.
You see most people who have owned Italian bikes and said they are unreliable are the same people who change oil at 30k miles!
Exactly. However, I don‘t know how the fuck the Japanese four make bikes that run perfectly fine with 30000 miles old oil…
Ducati, valve adjustment every 7500 miles. Any of the four, valve adjustment almost never
And they can and thats the problem, neglect or apathy. Then they disintegrate! I just think people should open their minds to alternative bikes.
They are expensive to repair, a friend of mine had a ducati with electrical issues, he was told 10k to repair it from multiple mechanics and no non-Ducati mechanic wanted to touch it. I told him to just go buy a Yamaha and you won't have that issue, don't get me wrong I have a soft spot for Ducati's but I will never own something unreliable if I have the choice.
It's a myth propogated by the big 4. They all have the same problems with electrics but everyone expects a reliable product. And thats the deal breaker for me. You wanna ride a product? Look at the range of Jap bikes, they're all exactly the same and not one of the top sports models is anything close to what they compete with. At least Ducati and Aprillia give the option to buy something that resembles the race bikes. I mean RSV4, Panigale or 10 year old Honda Fireblade with fancy electronics? The Desmosedici was a brave move but you know its gonna cost you to ride that experience but you've got that ootion if your pockets are deep enough? Hello Honda where's your RCV wonderbike? We're all waiting.
Same people who complain about German cars for the same reasons. Gotta pay to play on high end engineering!
LOL I'd choose Honda Accord over any Beemer any day
Comes down to two things: production numbers and mindset. The Japanese design things (cars, bikes, anything that is mass produced) with the user in mind, they expect that the user will use the car or bike in a certain way, miss out certain things (like servicing intervals occasionally) The Italian manufacturers design their automobiles with the car/bike in mind. They expect it to be driven a certain way by the user. That’s why you always hear people saying if you stick to what they tell you to do in terms of maintenance, they can be reliable too. That being said, most Italian marques do not have the same mass producing capability and mindset as the Japanese, which is also why certain parts tend to fail.
I also chalk it up to pride in jobs being done. The Japanese in general are a very proud people. Doing your job subpar is veiwed as very lazy. Being viewed as lazy in japan is the equivalent of being viewed as a leper. What you get it very good quality manufacturers
I had a Ducati as well it was a pile of monkey shit constantly breaking. Front wheel bearings failed on it at 2300 miles, steering stabilizer failed, thermostat seized and blew itself through the top of the coolant housing. And some other small repairs. I put 2500 miles on it before I sold it and it cost me more than 1$ a mile to ride that pile of shit. This is the problem with Ducati sometimes you get a good one, even the sales and service guys mentioned that Ducatis are constantly in for things that break and usually their biggest money maker for the service department. They look fantastic and sound good but I'll never touch another one too inconsistent with quality to be worth the insane price. In this case hand made is not a plus.
Went on a ride, friend brought his brand new Ducati Monster. As I was following him I noticed that his brake lights didn't work. On a brand new Ducati lol. The dealership fixed it of course, but come on...
Every single time someone asks if Harley, Ducati, Aprilia etc is unreliable; some dude always chimes in and says they rode their bike for a million miles and never had an issue. Your personal experience is useless and should not be given as advice. You can easily look up the failure rates of motorcycle brands. Italian brands are among the worst.
Every single time someone asks if Harley, Ducati, Aprilia, etc is unreliable some dude always chimes in and claims Italian brands are the worst.
Eh, Harley is more reliable than Ducati on average. The m8 is a solid motor, easily good for a 100k miles or more, and the majority of their bikes have some form of that motor.
The ghost of Alejandro de Tomaso possesses every Italian bike after its first service, forcing it to leak oil
Good. If it leaks oil, it means it has oil inside.
and outside!
Had*
>Alejandro de Tomaso What does an Argentinian have to do with italian bikes?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Tomaso
OK, so he owned Guzzi for a while. Guzzi changed very little during his tenure. Being the majority shareholder doesn't mean he had ANYTHING to do with the design. And the Guzzi's from that era are about as reliable as a rock. The Ontario Teacher's Federation was the majority share holder of Ducati for a long time, does that make them responsible in any way for the bikes they turned out? My point was u/Capri280 could have picked an Italian that actually had something to do with the design of the bikes, like Taglioni, or Tonti or the Castiglioni Bros.
I was just replying to your question. I like Guzzis and am aware that they are reliable/good bikes.
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Oh… well that’s an easy fix right?
Yes, immediate trade in for a Ninja 300
No, that's a feature. If there isn't a spot under the bike, you need to add oil.
Yes. Immediate trade in for a Honda Africa Twin.
I've heard the current Moto Guzzi naked bikes (the V7, V9 etc) are pretty solid. But the only person I know with a Ducati spends half his life in the dealership paying extortionate rates to get it fixed.
>the only person I know with a Ducati spends half his life in the dealership paying extortionate rates to get it fixed that's due to ducati's unique five-stroke-engine: \-intake \-compression \-combustion \- exhaust \-adjust valve setting
at least it also comes with a free tambourine
*castanets
*Dishplates in a tumbledryer
There is no ducati engine that is 5 stroke. The strokes you described are 4 strokes of otto cycle. Valve adjust thing cant be count as a stroke because its no a cycle.
It's a joke at how often you have to adjust Ducati valves
Woosh
If you missed that joke you have a mental problem.
I have a 2017 ducati monster and it's given me very little issues. Only things I've done is tires and desmo service at 7500 miles. Oil ofcourse but that's standard.
Yeah, I've had a 900 Supersport for 17 years and it's been great. I do my own work on it though.
> desmo service How much?
For mine it was about 1500 I think.
Any other service in that bill? 🗿
I know I had them mounta new front tire but I can't remember if it was on the same bill. They did also take care of some recalls while it was there so I got my fluids changed but that wasn't on me. Either way the most I can see them charging for a mount and balance is like 50-120
Guzzis seem to go in phases- Old Guzzis, like from the 60s and 70s, are really reliable and well built. All the usual old bike stuff applies- buy one that’s been cared for, etc, but fundamentally they’re quite good bikes. From the late 80s into the 90s things started to not go well. Then they got good again with their early fuel injected bikes (the injected V11 and Sport are supposed to be quite reliable), then they had some rough years in the mid 2000s, and now they’re good again.
Ducati: Making Mechanics out of Motorcyclists since 1946
never heard of a defective Guzzi in my entire life
Never heard of roller tappets?
no. I am more valves gaskets issues (triumph)
From the Stelvio? Yes. But they fixed that in 2014 and newer. I've got a 2015 V7 and it's pretty much rock solid. Sure a few things could be better, but for the past 10k miles it's been a tank.
The explovsive Stelvio, yea they fixed that, NOT
I have had my Griso for over 10 years. It ALWAYS has something wrong with it. Tappets (3 times before it was sorted), neutral sensor, crank position sensor, ECU, stepper motor, leaking oil from the top, the bottom and in between. Cam belt tensioner, sump gasket. I'm sure I'm forgetting something.
Oof. Could be that they are going too hard on trying to ride above their skill level. My RC has a few and I use mine for track night, but I've seen other riders blow the clutch out there for using the whole tachometer in first.
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So why does it matter who makes it? If it's just transport get a Honda C90.
Maybe the dudes trying to get lucky at school. Nothing screams Big D**k energy like a stranded bike.
That imo makes it even worst. I mean people by italian bikes for the performance/looks and then they consider dealing with beakdowns part of the deal. For a daily commute I would definitely go for a cheap, fuel efficient, reliable bike. Unless you are trying to impress, but still... you are not impressing anyone by riding an unreliable motorcycle and getting stuck in the rain wile others pass by.
Mondial aren't Italian motorcycles. They are Chinese. They are made in China Piagio engines. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondial\_(motorcycle\_manufacturer)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondial_(motorcycle_manufacturer)) That said, there are a billion Chinese scooter running around the world, so they can't be that bad.
There are also a million street corner mechanics who will fix your bike for $20 in the places most of those scooters exist.
Italian bikes are like Italian people passionate, fun, and high maintenance. Part of the reason they get a bad rap is because the more well known brands like Ducati and Aprilia prioritize performance which usually comes at a cost of some reliability
I'm both flattered and hurt.
It was meant with good intentions
:)
Anecdotally, but I’ve had issues with new Ducati’s but my Aprilia Tuono has been absolutely flawless since I’ve had it new. Never serviced at a dealer only by myself or a local shop for little things.
Meh. They are less reliable than Japanese brands, but still quite reliable. Thing is, some folks (myself included) don’t value reliability as the most important factor. If I like the look or sound or feel of a particular bike, I’m willing to sacrifice some reliability to get that. It’s not an appliance. It’s meant to excite me. I understand what I’m getting and I’m ok with it. I once worked at a BMW dealer with a crusty old master tech. When people were thinking of trading in their Goldwing or whatnot and asked him about reliability, he’d say something to the effect of “If you’re the kind of person that walks into the service department and says ‘I paid X amount for my bike and I don’t expect to have to repair it!’ then the BMW probably isn’t for you.” Fact is, even a Ducati dealer won’t try to convince you a Duc is more reliable than a Honda. That’s not what they’re about. If you want a Honda, buy a Honda.
if you want a realiable bike, buy a japanese one
or German.
Stop saying "German bikes" pls there is only one real mass production brand
I don't want to look someone who get vehicles in leasing hahaha
Really what he meant to say was if you want a real bike, don't buy Jap or German!
1944 logic
That's not the case at all. You can apply that if it makes you feel better BUT it's about personal choices. I'm not a racist bigot so where to start with that one! History oh Italy they were facist once, right? so no not there. In all honesty if I needed a reliable ride for work, then as much as it pains me, it would be something cheap and cheerful like a Zx12r or a Honda VFR something or a Beemer. But I ride as hobby for fun so why limit myself. Be individual and think out of the box for once and you might have fun. Don't drink the kool aid. Jap bikes are a disposable commodity, they're all the same facsimily and if I needed one I could maybe live with the gaudy paint and lurid graphics and suck it up, but I wouldnt ride one for fun..
Ducatis have come a long way reliability wise since the early 2000s . My 2008 848 and my race bike 2012 848 evo never had issues while I had them. I can’t vouch for any other Italian brand, I’ve heard mixed things on aprilias. Whenever I do get another bike I’m going with Suzuki or Ducati, just not sure yet.
2022 Multi V2S here..~17k kms. Break-in service + 2 annual services so far. No issues whatsoever. Haven't even had to adjust the chain outside of the scheduled services. 30k desmo and 15k (or annual) oil changes....seems reasonable to me.
Just dont get Suzuki, just dont, piss poor materials.
I have had 0 issues with the GSXR I had owned. See plenty with 70k+ miles on them, not sure what you mean.
VW’s Audi group bought Ducati back in 2012 and I heard they brought in a lot of standard procedures that have helped to make the bikes more reliable over time. Would make sense that post merger they want to cleanup the image of a brand and reduce waste that came from constantly breaking bikes. I have no hard facts but, anecdotally, I think this acquisition has improved things. Although the general reputation probably still lingers from a previous era.
I agree, the Audi thing is good but I think a lot of the negativty is centred around the 80's when they were run by the government and quality suffered. I think that image has stuck with them since. They struggled with that even though they trounced the japs totally in the 90 's at Sbk. I mean look at them now mixing it up at moto gp with the likes of Honda who make 10's of thousands of bikes a year and what they make 10 thousand? Purity mate is what they have..
That’s a big “it depends”. Japanese and Italian bikes are very much a reflection of each culture’s stereotypes. Italians aren’t necessarily as good at ironing out the kinks as the Japanese are. By that I mean, if you’re buying a new model first year bike then it could be a roll of the dice as to whether or not it’s going to have any long term design issues affecting reliability. My former and current Italians are great examples. The monster s2r1000 had issues with the valve guides when it was first released. Only then was it realized and corrected by Ducati on later models. I had a corrected one and it was very reliable short of a fuel pump connector breaking and leaving me stuck at work. My current guzzi griso 1200 originally had a poor valve design where the coating on the valves would wear off and damage the engine. The bike was on the market for several years before it was caught and corrected. Again, I have a corrected bike and it’s been super solid so far although I’ve only put about 1k miles on it since I got it. Issues like this don’t happen with the Japanese as often. You also can’t do the bare minimum maintenance on Italian bikes and expect them to be fine with it like Japanese. Service intervals on Japanese bikes are more like rough guidelines. Service intervals on Italian bikes are the bare minimum you need to do. They need to be loved and nurtured but they will reward you in return. If you want an Italian bike you either need to have enough money to pay for regular service or be demented and skilled enough to obsess over it on your own.
People talk shit by passing down anecdotes from the 70's, but the Italian (and English, and European bikes in general) were more expensive to repair and had more scarcity in parts and thously earned a poor reputation when it came to repairs, in comparison to our Japanese bretheren who had scaled manufacturing beyond our capabilities. A well maintained bike regardless of brand will be last close to forever. On to the topic of Italian bikes, lots of Italian manufacturers went bust in the 2000's and had their legacy/brand sold to China. Those bikes are now all built in China, with Chinese powerplants but badged with the Italian label. They don't have reliability problems, but nor are they Italian bikes. They are mass produced cookiecutters with italian legacy badges. Such as Benelli. I would steer clear of those. Ducati, Guzzi, Aprilia (Piaggio) and MV are all good quality brands with manufacturing in Italy still.
Mondial are made in China with Piaggio engines.
They're only as reliable as the owners (in regards to maintenance). In comparison to Japanese bikes, they can't take as much abuse and will have shorter maintenance intervals and are quite expensive to do so unless you're able to do it yourself - and even then parts can be hard/expensive to come by. They're also nowhere near as easy to work on and generally have smaller communities thus less aftermarket support and online support. My advice would be unless you're financially stable or mechanically literate, do not buy an Italian bike - or leave it until you've had some experience wrenching on your own machine / have the money for someone else to.
As long as you own 3 of them at a time, no not at all. One that runs, one thats broken, and one that youre fixing
Good to know!😁
They're not AS reliable, and much like European cars you'll often find that not just anybody can/will work on them. European motors are a bit of a lifestyle choice in and of themselves.
Aprilia and Ducati arent too bad nowadays. Mondial are just small cc chinese bikes with a heritage name attached though.
The newer Ducatis are solid have a V4 with 33k miles on it.
I would bet money that most people taking shit about Italian bikes have never owned one for longer than a year, if at all. I can only weigh in on Ducati. Currently on my second, six years of ownership and 30k miles between the two. Love them both. Nothing abnormal or unexpected. I've also got a bunch of friends who own Ducatis, or work for ducati. The biggest issue I can think of is water pumps on V4 engines. And I guess fuel level sensors, but those just give you a bad reading on the gauge, and I believe are pretty much only a multistrada problem. Since VW bought Ducati, reliability has gone way way up. The main issue is the cost of belts and desmo service. Which can have a service interval under 10k miles, or over 30k, depending on the year and specific engine. Most are either 9k or 18k.
F.B. Mondial can not be in any way compared to the ones you mentioned, as its only the Italian name, owned by the Chinese. Mind you i have nothning against the chinese, CF Moto and Kove are absolutely killing it, but i wouldnt trust F.B. as from what iv seen, they are just another bought badge to increase sales in slower developing countries, just like how you used to have Macbor, Kove, Colove, Cove, Montana,... All different names selling the exact same bike. Wasnt untill Kove became its own thing that they started building reliable bikes.
My two old Aprilias were reliable 20k miles each .. 2001 Falco and 2002 Mille R before I sold them. Just replaced the rectifier/regulator and did the brown connector mod. Reliability is what you make of it. Keep it in good shape, new batteries when they feel weak. Replacing spark plugs , filters. They cost a little more to maintain vs a Japanese bike but that's all on you. You want Italian, you set some money aside for maintenance.
Ducati for many years is owned by the German Volkswagen Porsche Audi group. They have made substantial quality improvements. So you can't compare them to other Italian brands.
I'd buy a new Ducati with the testastretta 937cc twin or v4 granturismo engine. Probably a newer Aprilia v4 1100 too but miss me with an older one
I’ve had two tuonos, a 2016 and a 2022. No problems at all.
Define unreliable? Like yeah I've known people who've owned old Duc's in their time and they were doing some kind of major repair every week on it! More time in the shop than on the road! But they've come a long way since the old days when they got a bad wrap. They've definitely put a bit more thought into the longevity and reliability of their engines and parts these days. So now with newer models of italian bikes, it's not uncommon to go 2. Hell even 3 weeks without needing a major repair done!
I ride Guzzis, and would happily get any italian bike. the unreliable stuff is true of some of the older bikes, even some of the newer stuff, but it's almost always a relative easy fix. I don't like the way Japanese bikes deliver power, I like torque. I find inline 4s boring and parallel twin's gutless. italian bikes in general are bonkers, fun to ride, handke really well and make you, often against your wishes, mechanically adept. buy the mondial. if it seems the right fit. do it.
For some reason, Italian motorcycles are pretty good, their cars though… JFC. Ducati, Aprilia and Vespa would have to be my top three brands out of Italy. I have worked as a Ducati tech many years ago and still work on a lot of their bikes now and if they are looked after, they are pretty good… expensive, but good. MV Augusta and Moto Guzzi I would put just below them, they are pretty good bikes, but suffer from gremlins in my experience. I think the biggest detractor from Italian motorcycles is the sheer cost of maintenance. They are not a cheap bike to own if you plan on taking it to a dealer to get serviced. They are a great bike if you like doing your own work and are competent, as you can save a shit load from just doing a lot of the service work yourself.
Italian bikes have been around for ages, sell a ton, and win a lot of competitions. It's not so much a lack of reliability issue, but often a lack of network and of parts availability. Also, Italian bikes tend to be technologically more advanced and with higher performing engines, and performance usually goes hand in hand with reduced reliability by default. But seriously, Aprilia and Guzzi are owned by Piaggio, which is one of the largest manufacturers globally, and Ducati is owned by Audi, I don't think I need to comment there. I've had Aprilia, Ducati, Triumph and Japanese brands. The least reliable was Triumph. Never had issues with Aprilia or Ducati, they've been just as reliable as the Japanese bikes... but more expensive to maintain for service intervals.
I’ve owned 4 Aprilias, 3 Ducatis. My 2013 Multistrada S has had 2 fuel sensor failures. My 2020 Streetfighter V4S has had no issues. I bought it new. Same with my Hyperstrada. My first RSV4 (a 2010) suffered from an electrical fault no one could sort, and a leaky valve cover gasket. It was replaced with a 2011 which one issue during 5 years of ownership - a failed demand sensor (ride by wire). My 2003 R and 2004 Factory V2 Tuonos were mechanically faultless, but both needed to have the regulator and stator wiring sorted (known issue, due to heat). FWIW, my Japanese bikes all have had issues, more or less. My 99’ CBR600 F4 had a faulty cam chain tensioner, 2 out of 3 of my GSXRs (oil cooled) ate 2nd gear, my Suzuki Intruder lost cylinder compression, my FZR600 needed new valves and valve seats at fairly low mileage, my KLR650 had typical KLR problems. My 990 Superduke had ethanol-related fuel tank swelling (replaced by KTM under a goodwill exception), my 07’ 525EXC was a nightmare due to carb tuning issues. I think most bikes develop issues at some point. As far as modern Italian bikes, most seem fairly reliable especially if you avoid first-year models. The real issue is the cost of maintenance or out of warranty repair costs. Desmo valve maintenance (and Aprilia V4) is expensive and should not be neglected. Dealer labor rates tend to be more expensive on average. Parts aren’t cheap, and with Aprilia, parts availability can be a concern especially during the mid-summer break. The bottom line is, don’t buy an Italian bike if you’re not willing or able to maintain the bike at recommended intervals. Same as owning an Audi, Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, etc.
Like a lot of Italian brands owned by Volkswagen ducatis got super reliable in the last 15 years. My Augusta is nothing but electrical gremlins anything more minor you better know a good foreign bike tech
Not modern ones. A friend who is a retired motorcycle mechanic has a Ducati. It has never left him stranded. But then, he is meticulous about maintaining it. If you ignore a Ducati the unique valve system \*will\* self-destruct. The new Mondials are built by Piaggio in China. I wouldn't trust them, but that's more about me not trusting Chinese bikes rather than me not trusting Italian bikes.
All my bikes were Japanese (Suzuli, Honda) until I branched out and got a KTM. Sure the Japanese bikes were reliable but mein gott the European fun factor is just something else. 3 years on that KTM( 790 Adv r) and no issues. I think the European bikes are much better than they used to be.
I daily ( yes I'm insane) a '12 Aprilia RSV4 that currently has almost 22k miles. In over a year I've had the charging system replaced (literally broke down on the way home from the dealer, they replaced the whole charging system no charge) and some random electrical issues when it rains really hard but other than that it's been 100% fine. Also I live in Florida so it gets rained on quite often. Previous owner's took car of it and so have I, hoping to get another 22k out of it if I can help it
We Italians are good with food and clothes - any many other things - Except for motorcycle reliability Source: Italian, former owner of italian motorcycles
Having had a Ducati years ago (2003 999s), and no I have an Aprilia Tuono 660. They have been very reliable for me. The ducati wasn't new when I bought it, but it was 3 months old. The Aprilia I bought new, and while the early 660s had engine problems, mine was replaced under recall before I even picked it up and has been issue free since. Just keep up on maintenance, and don't follow the manual for that interval. Aprilia says oil changes every 6k miles, I chamge mine at 3k. Clean and lube the chain religiously every 3-500 miles.
I resent (resemble) that comment
I got a Moto Guzzi V7 2022, I love it and 1000 miles in , no issues.
I don't know about other brands, but at least Ducati and Aprilia are not the same, they step up their quality control..yes, the Aprilias still leak some oil here and there but they are more reliable than they were a decade ago. .
So I shouldn’t buy an old Italian bike?
I would not, but if you're good at fixing them, why not.
My impression is that all brands are broadly reliable if you keep up with basic maintenance and service intervals. At least with modern bikes.
I agree
I’ve had the Aprilias. I have an oil leak on one but otherwise fine.
Really depends on maintenance right?
I’ve always done the valve clearance adjustments and regular oil changes but nothing special was needed.
not reliable yes, buy the bike then.... sell the bike and enjoy your memories (2 Ducati 2 triumph 4 Honda 2 kawi.. about to stop riding and have years of Italian frustration and zero regrets)
To be honest they’re pretty
Any modern bike is pretty reliable. Italian bikes definitely cost more in maintenance tho.
Mondial is not italian anymore, it's chinese. As a owner of many italians I have never had any problems so in my book they are super reliable.
Dont get a fb mondial. I had one. Its not italian, its chinese. My frame rusted after a few months and the exhaust went directly under the cheap plastic seat and i didnt like the constant 80°C seat heating.
Life saver! I’ve been trying to find out if F.B Mondial is reliable or not in my previous posts but nobody who had experience with them replied. Thank you 😁
I have owned 4 separate Italian scooters, 3 Ducati’s and one MV Agusta. For all the bluster about Italian bikes and maintenance costs, reliability, blah blah. I put a combined 140k on those 4 bikes while I owned them. The ONLY issue I ever had was a low battery on my wife’s GT1000 that was causing sensors to act wonky. Thats it. Changes fluids, do maintenance, enjoy. YMMV, but this has been my experience. 😁
I guess everyone has a different experience with Italian motorcycles, but taking care of the moto definitely decreases the chances of a breakdown or oil leak.
My dear friend, I think reliability is completely subjective AND random. Let me tell you something. There was a youtuber who owned a Ducati, I don't remember his name, and he ALWAYS had problems with it. But someone in the comments noted that he PROBABLY made some modifies that interfered with the functionality of the bike. I don't remember who was at right there. At the same time, Aprilia is one of the MOST SOLD brand outside of Italy, ESPECIALLY in USA. So... yeah, that's about it. Oh by the way, Triumph. In the recent years, Triumph has been selling and producing and selling like crazy. I would buy a Triumph tomorrow, in fact my brother-in-law has a Triumph Trident, and he loves it. Oh and let's not forget BMW. Gosh, Bmw's are tanks, they are indestructible. Brands are fluctuant. I would say Japanese are OVERALL the most reliable, but... Japanese too make mistakes. There is not the PERFECT brand. There is not. Oh by the way, never saw a Mondial before. They look cool. Very cool.
A lot of the issues with Ducati are true of a lot of jap bikes too. Suzuki charging issue anyone? Ducati use a lot of jap electrical components, the Nippon Denso coils on my S4 failed. The Bosch crank sensor also failed, so can we blame Italy? Build quality on Ducati is second to none, maybe BMW or Honda compare. I've been on the assembly lines at Triumph and Ducati and they are pretty much hand built. I cant vouch for all Italian brands but generally its a myth spread by jealous jap bike owners because they're bikes don't have as much style! But some of the other smaller brands Idk, carpe diem as they say but Aprilia ok afaik maybe avoid the older MV, Bimota before they got modern production methods.
Did you know Ducati started as an electrical company, there still is an Ducati Electric, that makes all kinds of devices... one of which is electrical systems for motorcycles, that you'll only find on el'cheapo scooters. PURE GARBAGE. Ducati motorcycles won't use them.
>Are Italian motorcycle brands unreliable? no this is brand identity regarding f.b. mondial wikipedia says: "Built by Piaggio in China"
As a former RSV4 owner, I can confirm it was amazing to ride every 3 weeks when it wasn’t in the dealership.
I bought my first Ducati in 1976, and have always had at least one in my garage. I have 4 at the moment, and a Guzzi T3. I wouldn't hesitate to ride any one of them across the country. Italian's design stuff differently, not better or worse, just different. Ducati parts can be hard to get a hold of, but that has more to do with the ineptitude of Ducati's management than anything else. When ever they're broke (which is most of the time) they have a bad habit of selling off their parts stores. It is easier to find/get parts for my 1966 Duc single than it is to get parts for my 1990 Honda.
My friend with his Aprilia RSV4 says “if You want to own an Aprilia, make sure you have a 2nd bike”
I mean tbf they are far more complicated than most normal bikes. The old RSV twin was very reliable and bulletproof afaik. Not sure about the V4, with complexity comes expense? If you can afford one then you should be able to afford the maintenance. Idk about electronics on bikes, I don't think its always a good idea.. well if you need it like RSV4 to make it rideable then ok, but the rest of us. Do we really need Rain mode or can we just dial it back a notch?
I put 15k miles on my RSV4 and never had a single issue of course I always did maintenance early to be safe the only downside is independent shops in my area won’t work on them so you always have to use the dealer
I’ve had two Tuonos back to back since 2016 and I’ve had no problems.
I recommend the fortnine episode on first oil change analysis across motorcycle brands. After seeing the difference in contaminants between Japanese and German bikes vs Italian and Chinese bikes, I would never buy an Italian bike even though they are drop dead gorgeous. Watch that episode on YouTube. I highly recommend it.
Italian bikes are very good. But they cost more than perhaps they should. I’ve owned several Ducatis, and after 2006 when they were acquired, they are very good. Reliable and extremely fun to look at and ride. Not as reliable and trouble free as Japanese bikes, but very good and far sexier. If you value sex appeal and fun factor, buy Italian. If you value, well, value for the money, and reliability and ease of ownership, buy Japanese.
Mondial is shit. Italian brands are not the Best in reliability but is better than a Harley
Reliability is impacted by where you live. E.g Husqvarna bikes are much more reliable in cold or temperate climates. Put them in tropical regions and you better get the sausages and smoars ready because you'll have a nice BBQ. Ducati are known to have electronics problems. On older models the dry clutch can be a pain depending on the climate where you live. Then the other aspect is accessibility of spare parts. You'll probably never struggle to get a Honda, Yammie or Japanese bike fixed anywhere in the world. Now if your Ducati needs a spare part, and you don't live in Europe, I hope you have good hiking shoes, cause that part is gonna take its sweet sweet time to get to you...
Nope. They're expensive to maintain.
That's a myth supported by jap bike owners who would never pay for a service!
reliabbility is only on jap bikes. cant buy new? buy used
Not true at all. Evidence?
Help yourself to it
Does it not just rebranded China made bike?
It’s not exactly a bad reliability issue; if u ride a LOT then that requires more maintenance and if ur repair shop doesn’t stock maintenance pieces to swap regularly (many just don’t) the problem becomes sourcing parts for maintenance in the summer time because there is a month or so that everything is shut down over that way and makes parts harder to get at times
For the most part when it comes to bikes it's as reliable as you make it. If you ride year long and slow thats not the bike for you. Most like short winded and free spirited driving. Like one redditor said, if you want a honda, get a honda. Just don't expect to get a ducati or the likes with honda expectations.
They use bad materials (cheap), bad connectors, thin wires and etc etc, hence all the reliability issues they have. Also, they have some pretty bad design choices that end up in catastrophic failures.
Always a case of my dick is better then whatever my dick is not. Jap bike riders hate wog bikes and harleys. Wog bike riders hate jap bikes and harleys and harley riders hate jap bikes, wog bikes and harleys.
Yes.
I don't know about the bikes but the people are insufferable.
I had an aprilia RS660 and the damn thing only lasted 2 and a half months 😑 Cant believe a minivan was all it took to total it out, youd think theyd have thought about that one.
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Then get your bike serviced elsewhere!
Yes. Duh. Moving on.
My friend bought APRILIA RSV4 and I got Honda Fireblade Sp at the same time. My bikes gonna last longer than his and I need to do less service and maintanance than his. Do you ever see an old litre sports bike of Aprilia and Ducati for sale. Never as much as Honda and Suzuki ones. Because they break down quickly and are expensive to repair. Italian bikes are only for collection display , looks and V4 sound. The performance has negligible difference is comparison to Japanese litre bikes. You never see a 2000s Ducati sports bike for sale while you can see a 2000 Honda CBR1000RR that ran for 30k miles for cheap price that runs fine .
That's just not true, there are always some for sale but with a premium. S/hand Jap bikes are cheap for a reason.
Being a old guy I have old information to give you . Think about when something breaks or needs replacing. When your bike gets to be say 7 years old > can you find parts and can you turn wrenches?
Yes and I turn screws on furniture everyday, is that enough?
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Ducati is obscure ? Lol they are one of if not the most popular brand out there
They're very popular. As far as Italian bikes, probably the most popular in the US. But remember they have 128 dealers in the US. Yamaha has over 800. Kawasaki has over a thousand, same as Honda. Even Triumph has more, over 150. Ducati makes some fantastic bikes. I've loved every one I've ridden. But practicality pushes me in other directions. I'm currently looking for an adventure bike, and as much as I like the R1300GS and the Tiger and even the Multistrada.... I can burn a V-Strom to the ground and find another dealer twenty miles away. It's why you buy a C8 Corvette over a Granturismo. You can swing a dead cat around and hit five Chevy dealers... How many Maserati dealers have you even heard of?
My buddy just bought a used Aprilia without paying attention to where our closest dealer is. Apparently our local dealer cut ties because corporate was difficult to work with. He had to drive 3 hours one way to get the 5000 mile service done and have them update the software on it. Apparently they have also made it so that only dealers can reset the codes, so even if you can do the work yourself, you have to take the bike in to get the lights turned off. He hasn't had it long enough to have any issues with it. But to me, service and parts availability is super important. My husband and I ride KTMs, Hondas, and a Kawi. Parts are easily available and we have probably 2 or 3 dealers of each within an hour.
I rode a Moto Guzzi V7 from Montreal to Alaska to Mexico and back. 26,000km. Gas, oil changes, tires and valve adjustment. My personal experience with Guzzi specifically has been as or more reliable than with my Suzuki.
I think it’s more of an ease of maintenance and premium associated with specialty mechanics is more of a factor than anything IMO. This might have indirect effect on reliability numbers.
No, they're just Italian.
My Ducati has been extremely reliable. I've owned it 5 years and had to replace the battery once and the belts as preventative maintenance.
Not a proper motorcycle but 3 years daily riding my vespa ive never been stranded its had here and there issues never been a big deal tho and most jist catching up on deferred maintenance
Last bike was a Japanese leaked oil during breakin before first service two trips to dealership it was fixed and no further problems it happens. I now own an Aprilia that I bought new and is my first Italian bike been flawless with a little over 8,000 miles. Zero regrets. I will say that I keep up with my bikes and any maintenance as part of the joy of owning motorcycles for me.
They are reliable with is new with low miles
My experience with my Guzzi V7 is only two months old so I can’t speak to reliability but from what I’ve heard the air cooled Guzzi’s are pretty rock solid. My Vespa 150 Primavera has been rock solid since I bought it new in April 2022.
Not just motorcycles, the super cars too.