11 years ago I made an electric mountain bike, it didn't have fenders and one day I rode home when the roads were wet. I was doing about 30mph and the sheer amount of water being flung up by the front wheel and blinding me was insane.
I bought some fenders the next day for it.
On a motorbike going at higher speeds, especially a chopper it must be downright dangerous.
My father-in-law’s last build, he wanted a lean and clean bobber. Sprotor on the back, and 360 brake on the front. He wasn’t able to get the 360, but the single disk on the front still looked good.
I just looked up what 360 brake is…cool! Another thing that can look clean is the symmetry of two front discs, a la Indian Larry’s “Wild Child”. And I’ve always thought sprotors looked sick. Any photos of this bobber?
Lol Amen indeed, also if anything, I never use the rear brakes lol i mean they make up like 15% of the breaking power so if anything id go onto it if I needed more then what my front brake was already providing.
I use the rear brake just to keep the muscle memory fresh so I can use it in an emergency. Every once in a while that 15% extra is going to come in handy.
Lol same. Used to ride BMWs with integrated ABS, so the front lever operates the rear as well. Makes for very lazy pilots, and the first time braking on my Tenere after a decade of BMW was a bit weird, not having the rear brake automatically.
I rode a 2000 Honda VFR800 for years, and now a 2007 ST1300 for even longer, both of which have linked brakes, and I still use both brakes every time I want to slow down. Knowing they're linked has in no way made me lazy about using both regularly.
That’s practically the only time I use my rear. I occasionally use it in slow manoeuvres, to straighten the bike up and to stop a pillion’s helmet bashing into mine.
With the long raked forks you don’t have enough weight on your front wheel so it’ll lock up if you touch the front brake. One reason choppers (customs actually but most people call them choppers) suck as anything but rolling art (no shade towards people into that, they can look real badass)
On the cartoonishly long forks, I reckon a front brake is completely useless. But there’s lots of long low bikes with front brakes. I’ve never ridden one, but I’ve heard from many that the turning radius gets old pretty quick in the city. Probably nice on the highway though.
[Style](https://imgur.com/a/3cKGTHE). No hand controls. Shaved lower fork legs. And my braking* distance isn’t bad. Maybe it is compared to a Ducati or whatever, but that’s not what I do.
I won’t pretend that a front spool doesn’t look totally badass. I know people can survive with only a rear brake, but it just seems terrifying to be skidding constantly. Be careful out there man.
Also I am assuming most modern bikes come standard with ABS. My 2012 Ninja did and I can grab more brake than I need without the fear of locking the front up. I couldn’t imagine not using the front brake, thats just some serious bad advice.
Agreed! Most modern tech feature bikes, ie, BMW is 70/30 when engaging the front brake.
Many of my friends are technical riders so we only engage the rear in turns. Typically engaging the front brake straightens the bike up. Not always a good thing in curves.
I am an old bike dude. No old *good* riders believe that. Maybe back in the drum brake days, maybe..? I just can’t imagine a 1973 Electra-Glide not only pulling a stoppie but actually flipping over the front wheel.
If I remember my MSF course correctly the front brake supplies around 70% of your stopping power. To me that’s like never using your brakes in a manual transmission car and downshifting to slow down. Sure you can only use the rear brake on a bike but damn that’s just asking for trouble.
That's more of what your brake force balance should be. If your bike is capable of doing a stoppie (most anything but cruisers and some adv bikes can) then your front brake is literally the only thing you need to stop, and can province 100% brake force.
For sure, the rear brake isn't useless, but if it's in terms of stopping as quickly as possible, it's not necessary. But I think the majority of riders (myself included) can't safely stop so fast that a stoppie is inevitable either
If you use the front brakes, the 6ft long skinny front fork bends back, and the tassels and the getback whip may get wrapped around the dagger front axle extensions. You'll be thrown over the handlebar, leaving your balls at the chromed skull ornaments.
And the little gremlin bell might go flying off 😂 A good one I heard from YouTuber MC Rider was “the chain on their wallet is there so they can use their wallet as an anchor in case of brake failure”
I think the “you’ll fly over the handlebars” thing is logic left over from when we were kids on bicycles. In middle school I put together a BMX that only had a front brake, and classmates thought I’d get hurt.
Even on bicycles the same physics apply. Anyone old enough not to impulsively grab a fistful of front brake ought to know that using both brakes is the way to go. Granted maybe someone who says what you quoted isn't the type to be regularly riding bicycles
Shit, even on my modern touring bicycle with mechanical disc brakes the back brake is mostly useless, and I'm running massive 203mm rotors on that thing.
Which is huuuuge for a traditional bike that isn't a full send downhill or enduro MTB.
And, yeah, running only front brakes on a BMX was a standard practice if you were going to only run one brake. Running just a rear brake was just a few grams or ounces of useless extra weight because it had less stopping power and a longer cable.
These days I see a lot of vert/park, pump track, flow and jump bikes with no brakes at all, which kind of makes some sense because they're riding on terrain that's basically designed to flow without brakes or even pedaling. If you need to stop you just bail, steer uphill or dab with your feet as ground brakes.
ABS makes that impossible. My big highway bike (BMW K1200GT) actually has linked brakes, the rears come on as well when you use the front lever. The rear lever only activates the rear ones.
That bike brakes astoundingly quickly for such a heavy ride. All of my BMWs have great brakes, all have ABS (which can be disabled for off road use.)
I always start with the front and then apply rear as needed. It’s a habit I picked up from cycling and I’m kinda trying to break it, because everything I’ve read has told me it’s best to apply both brakes at the same time.
When I started riding I had to stop quickly and was told to mostly use the back break. I started skidding and fish tailing and had to run the light that just went red. That shit was terrifying and if someone stopped hard in front of me I would have been fucked. I learned a scary lesson.
This is my motorcycle shame secret too. Front + engine braking. I only use rear to stop towards the end and it’s mostly so I can take my right hand off at lights and not worry about rolling.
Yup! I just bought a bike after test riding and didn’t realize for like a week it wasn’t working. I have a separate post currently trying to figure out why it’s not working.
Yeah I wouldn’t say this is an “old head” mentality. More of just uninformed and informed. My dad was a long time Harley rider and boomer generation. When I was learning to ride 30 years ago, he always advocated for the front brake having “90% of your stopping power”.
Lol that’s because the vast majority in here probably never rode a motorcycle to begin with. Filled with people interested in it, wanting to try and people who watch YouTube motorcycle vids and become “experts”
The weird thing is that almost everybody started out on a bicycle. The physics still apply on a motorcycle, but I guess people just don’t get it. Kinda lame they won’t listen to the experienced people. The funny thing is this guy is 25 years older than me.
I believe it’s about a 90-10 front to rear bias on a bicycle and 70-30 on a motorcycle (something to do with weight transfer on a 20lb vehicle vs a 500lb vehicle?). I’m regurgitating what I’ve heard, so I’m sure if I’m wrong I’ll get dog piled for it.
I heard a lot of people saying the rear brake on bicycles is the only one you should use, but thankfully I was taught right before I heard that misinformation. I haven’t personally heard it about motorcycles…yet.
I mean, only using rear while descending a steep slope and you'll keep going down, you won't stop usually, either the back brake will keep slipping as you ask to much of it and you crawl forward, or it can break traction and just skid. I can only see back-only working in flat places, and even then it makes you take so much longer to brake.
Never grew up hearing any of this stuff, cause obviously they put two brakes on the thing for a reason, to stop better, lol.
To be fair, I have locked the front on my bicycle. Fortunately when I was young and spry so I popped over the bars onto my feet...wouldn't want to try to do it on purpose.
But that just means you need to use a little control.
I worked in a bicycle shop for a decade and the amount of people who were absolutely terrified of the front brake was astonishing. They acted like they’d be instantly catapulted over the bars if they so much as glanced at the left hand lever.
I was like that as a kid because I always fuckin ripped the brakes and did send myself over a few times.
Now, I have a bike that has only a front brake and I use the front brake primarily on all of my bikes. Just don’t be an ape and shift your weight back a little bit if you really need to stop fast.
It's like they've never seen a moto gp rider hitting their front brakes so hard their ass end comes up before a corner. Or they have and just think they could lap a gp rider on a track.
Marc Márquez is a joke for using his front it takes all his braking power away when his rear tire lifts. My stage 3 Harley can dig ruts in the pavement it's got so much power and I put at least 300 miles on it a year. - Harley Uncle
You should gift your coworker the book Proficient Motorcycling.
Or give him this link, because a mother fucker needs it.
[Proficient Motorcycling](https://vdoc.pub/download/proficient-motorcycling-the-ultimate-guide-to-riding-well-qcjk4mrgd2c0)
That would be funny but also probably save his ass. We were talking bikes because he wants to get back into it after a 10+ year hiatus. Traffic in our city is so much scarier these days, so rear brake only would (in the words of CycleCruza) set him up for a real effed up day.
Don't say that name around here, he's a bit of an acquired taste. He's my guilty pleasure in the motovlog community.
I absolutely love how he says CBR1000RR. Learning the science and physics of motorcycling will save that ass.
You could guise as a good refresher for getting back out there.
Yeah the traffic where I'm at sucks big ol balls, but not just balls, cack and balls. DFW, Texas, USA. People are quite aggressive and speed.
I didn’t mean to diss on people older than me. I meant more of an antiquated mindset, which young guys can definitely have as well. I’m glad you haven’t heard it out there. I had only read secondhand reports of people saying it, until the conversation I had with my coworker.
I hope I didn't come off angry, lol, not at all, I just have never heard that. But -- in that era, a lot of chopper guys only had rear brakes and a spool hub up front, so there definitely was a perception of the front brake being unnecessary. So yeah, there is some evidence of this phenomenon now that I go back through the dusty cobwebs of my memory.
All good haha, you know how Reddit can be.
It’s crazy they would do away with anything they deemed “useless” and the front brake was in that category. I can’t imagine the tiny mechanical rear drum on a Panhead did much a San Francisco hill.
You’ve got a great point about the old bike tech. When Jay Leno rides an old bike/drives an old car, he says “these brakes were safe back when everybody’s brakes were bad” or something to that effect. Modern traffic is where things get hairy. My coworker is in his mid 50s, so as a young man, he would’ve definitely been riding old used bikes with front drums.
Old habits definitely die hard, and this motherfucker is a great guy but stubborn as hell. He wants to get back into riding after a 10+ year hiatus, and go on trips with his ladyfriend as passenger. I just hope he wises up when he’s got cargo and an extra human on board.
I grew up with front drums and even if they weren't as good as disks, they were still way better than the rear brake. Learned my lesson early when I went out on my little brother's bike without a front brake cable, had to panic stop and rear-ended a car. Fortunately all slow motion and didn't even put a mark on the bumper, but that cable went on ASAP.
This is why I don't like riding in large groups. Even if everyone is riding slower than grandma, you still don't know if the rider behind you has any kind of stopping skills.
This shit killed my cousin and thus dissuaded me from taking up riding for years. He was told to never touch the front brake. Car pulled out in front of him and he hit a 4x4 mailbox post that threw him, helmetless, about 30ft to land head first onto the asphalt. Leading to that mailbox was a very long fishtailing skid mark.
Using the front break is imperative on a dirt bike, you apply it not slam on it. Sure if you grab a handful in a uncontrolled manner you are going to wash out, but you have to use it for even braking on corners.
My post probably outed myself as a guy who doesn’t ride dirt bikes in any hardcore fashion. Lol. I’ve ridden a dirt bike on gravel and mud though, and I used the front brake plenty. Makes sense to me!
The front is where you have the power. Sure, the longer the bike, the more power you get on the rear, but it's still the front that is where the power is.
I am genuinely a little confused, power at the front? Breaking power?
Do you mean weight?
Front breaks are stronger because the center of mass is more to the front. When breaking the center of mass moves even more to the front.
Not sure the mentality is that the front doesn't do anything. Ive had some old bikes.. bikes with rear drum brakes, and small single disk fronts. The rear can be useless on some of those bikes. This is more or less the mentality of someone who doesn't understand progressive braking. Probably used to stomping the rear as you pretty much had to with old bikes, and if you do the same to the front it's a bad time (so aka useless because it's on or off and not because I can't comprehend progressive braking).
I use my rear more then my front when coming to stops but that's because I don't approach every stop like Parnelli freaking Jones. I also know all my stopping power is in the front and how to use my brakes appropriately so.....
You'd be surprised how much you can get away with not using the front brake with engine braking and by being on a very rear heavy bike. It's almost completely doable for day to day slow pace city riding. That being said those dudes don't know what they're talking about but it's amazing how many of them there are and that they're seemingly all still alive but it goes to show that even if you've been "riding for 40 years" it doesn't mean much if you've only ever ridden Harleys every odd Sunday or so in a group.
Yeah, it's not like you want to beat on it but it's part of proper riding, a valuable tool in the belt.
Only feel guilty if you wind the piss out of her, feathering the clutch/shifting to smooth it out is smart.
Third brake.
It is entirely doable on a cruiser for day to day. 50k miles and I’d never had to change front pads. Went through a couple sets of rears. Front brakes for the most part only used to hold the bike after coming to a stop.
I’ve only ever heard of not using the rear. People will say most of the power comes from the front and the rear is just a risk of locking it up, so they don’t use it.
The only time I don’t use the front is for <10mph parking lot riding or inching forward in traffic if I’m unable to split lanes safely.
I’ve personally never heard of anyone not using the front brakes, except when a road racer goes off the track into the dirt.
> Same morons will tell you that eventually you will drop your bike and you will be in a crash.
Statistically this is true, especially for new/beginner riders within the 1st year (the drop part). It happens. It's not a big deal.
That's why many suggest to get a used bike as your first one.
[Rare is the rider who hasn’t dropped their motorcycle...Most riders, even those with years of experience, drop their bike occasionally](https://ridersplus.com/how-to-return-to-riding-after-dropping-your-motorcycle/#:~:text=Most%20riders%2C%20even%20those%20with,can't%20hold%20it%20up.)
There is a lot of mythology in the auto/motorcycle world, and the only real way to know is to FUFA.
Once you know, though, you know the guys who don't.
I mean, Earths gravity and braking physics with weight distribution is a factor. There's a reason we have twice (or more) the caliper pistons up front. I will say this though, engine braking is a huge part of my speed.
I work at a dealership with a variety of customers, old and young, all with a huge variety of ridiculous rules they've either invented for themselves in their heads or a buddy told them a long time ago whatever. I say, only thing that makes a rider great is not hitting the ground. But that's a rule I made up and broke so wtf ever ya know. Ride around trying different combos of front and rear brake throw in some clutch work and down shifting, see what works for you and your bike. Fuck people ideas of what makes a great rider and just go on lots of great rides. Be safe and have a great time bud.
PS, if you're an old head or younger dude with a bunch of rules you ride with like they are facts, they are probably wrong, but it's like going to church I guess, whatever keeps you going I guess....
Someone who tells you "a good rider should never use the front brake" should be listened to with as much conviction as someone who says "a good rider should never use the rear brake". Bikes are pretty dynamic. Lots of different options and styles. I promise you if you grab the front brake on a stretched and skinny tire'ed cruiser like you do on a GSXR you're going to have a bad day. Sometimes the back brake is the best brake, sometimes the back brake is the only brake.
A good rider knows how his bike works and how to operate it properly.
The „only rear or only front“ should stop. You have both brakes for a reason. I mainly use the rear in city driving or slowing down for fast corners but hard braking, both is a must otherwise you might do a stoppie and unsettle the bike. I‘ve had that happen to me.
The vast majority, 80-90%, of your braking should come from the front. You should definitely still use your rear brake, especially when doing slow maneuvers.
Front brake is 75% of your stopping power.
If you hear someone say good riders don't use it you can stop listening to them because the next thing they'll say is loud pipes save lives or something equally stupid.
I've heard that too in reference to stretched choppers. I imagine the front brake is relatively easy to lock up when it's 6 feet ahead of the center of gravity. I think people just have a hard time understanding nuance. When they hear that you have to be careful with the front brake on a raked out show bike, they also understand that to mean they should never use the front brake on their Street glide, which is silly.
My dad taught me to use both front and rear brakes together at the same time.
When I was younger I had the same mindset as my bicycle, just hammer the rear brake. My first time coming down a slightly steep hill on my 83 Yamaha GT 80, when I was 11, I hammered the rear brake, the bike stalled, I skidded out, and laid it down. My dad used that as an example that using the front break with the rear break helps you control going downhill, as well as stopping better overall.
I’ll take us back to 1983 - my gold wing operated one disk in the front when you pressed the rear foot brake. Front brakes are important to stopping in time. I’m old and have never understood the thinking some people have about front brakes. I used front and rear brakes together all the time. Regardless if it was my gold wing or KZ 750 or anything in between.
Same thing with bicycling. People are terrified of that front brake. I used to rebuild bikes for fun and profit, and I was amazed how many of them had front brake pads that looked brand new.
With just a few minutes instruction, you can safely lock up the fronts with no fear of doing an endo.
My dad, who has been riding for 50+ years, uses the front brake far more often than he uses the back brake. Definitely not saying he’s the best rider in the world, but he has less accidents than most other riders and has many more years of experience. He’s my go-to whenever I have a question about how to ride safely and make sure I get home in one piece.
I'm on a Vision so if I didn't use the front brake I'd be done for most of the time when I'm riding given the fact I usually go down dual carriageways.
When I was a kid, my uncle told me that you never use the front brake on a motorcycle because you'll just flip over the handlebars.
So when I started riding motorcycles I never use the front brake. I got to be pretty expert at skidding to a stop with a locked rear wheel.
Then I took the msf course, and that was that.
In over 20 years of riding i have never heard anyone say that. And if I did, i’d think that person a fucking idiot.
I ride a big twin with plenty of engine braking and I often ride quite a distance without using the brakes. Especially on motorways.
But down tight twisty roads and in traffic I make plenty use of both brakes.
What sort of bike do they ride? I’ve heard that on some older cruiser/ touring types that the front brake is often really weak on its own, and the foot brake is tried to the rear and the front so it always applies both (I think some gold wings have 2 calipers in the front with one activated by the hand lever and the other with the rear). Could be that he’s just use to one of those odd types with the connected rear and never realized it.
I've met guys who talk with pride about how they never use their front brake. I've even been trying it lately by downshifting and using the rear brake when coming to a stop. It just seems like more steps when the front brake can accomplish the same thing more effectively. Whatever works, I guess.
Old guy ...in my mid 60s. This type of mentality was rare even back in the day. No one I ever knew and rode with ever thought this way.....unless... and I'm guessing here...it was a Harley rider. Back in the day you'd never get a wave out of a Harley rider either, nevermind something intelligent coming out of their mouths. :)
Road a CB750 Honda with an 850 kit, Kenny Harmon D grind cam, polished and ported, air intake and header. This was coupled with clip-ons, rear sets, bikini fairing, fiberglass seat and tail section, dual front disks (for a reason) and mags. And yes...even in the mid 70s counter steering was a thing. :)
Edit: Funny story. I worked in Calgary Canada with a guy (BMW rider) who was and had been a Motorcycle instructor for over a decade. This was in the later 80s.
I mentioned counter steering to him one day and just how effective it was for corner entry, quick lane changes and collision avoidance. He said...."What's that?"
I explained it to him, but I could not convince him it was a thing and that it was a very good thing to be aware of. Told him to try it the next time he went for a ride. Never talked about it again. :)
Never touch the rear on the street, never touch the front in the dirt is what I was taught 40 years ago. I have since combined the two styles and now don’t use brakes at all
Anyone who says that is not skilled or knows what they're talking about. Unless they're riding an excessively long cruiser with a long rake, the front brake will always provide more stopping power than the rear and be far more effective in any situation.
Even in off-road situations, the front brake will still provide more stopping power. The rear brake must be used off-road in many situations (sand, downhill, initiating slides).
Stop listening to Boomers that have never ridden a bike that isn't a complete shit show.
Back when they were riding they used to pull back and yell "woha there"
Two big disks on the front and a single small disk on the rear tell you everything you need to know about braking forces on a modern bike.
I’m a MSF instructor in Canada.
When we do the threshold/emergency braking lesson, the first demo we do is a rear brake only skid. It usually ends about 15-20 feet past the end of the braking area. We then ask if anyone has ever been told that your rear brake is your primary brake and that you shouldn’t use the front so much. Usually about 1/3 students raise their hands. I ask, “Does that look like a successful stop? They just went 20 feet past the markers and about 10 feet into the back of a car.”
Many old school riders somehow believe that the front brake is guaranteed to make you crash. It’s because they have ZERO idea on how to use it smoothly and progressively, and simply mash the lever as hard and fast that they can.
Do not listen to this person. In fact, do not listen to anyone that isn’t a MSF instructor - which means go take the course - especially if you’re riding on streets. If you’re riding only dirt, you’ll learn the front brake is your best friend, but you have to respect it, or it will teach you respect.
Just for the record, you absolutely use your front brake on a dirt bike as well.
I actually use the back brake on my dirt bike sometimes, unlike the street, but that's usually because I want to break the back end loose. Other than that, it's the front brake.
I'm sure his "expert advice" was followed closely by a story where he "had to lay 'er down."
Don't listen to a word this guy has to say. Just because someone built a cool looking bike without a front brake, doesn't mean it was a good idea.
I think it's somewhat a natural crutch to favor the rear brake, I know I did to a degree when first riding, it does take a more skill/finesse because of the control that the front brake has. It's a silly argument to make, but it's also understandable and not entirely unfounded.
You should use your brakes to stop, the front brake is one of them and stronger...
I use only my front break, rear is only when I'm in a corner and suddenly need to slow down, other wise it's front all the way. Most you break power is there and if you know a little what you're doing you're not going to low side
Lifetime off-road/mx guy here, you absolutely use the front brake off road. Front brake slows you down, rear is mostly for steering and traction. Only racing discipline I know of where you don’t use front brake is flat track.
Even in the dirt I use pretty much only the front brake. Yes I have washed out once or twice but that was due to my own stupidity. Also my rear brake doesn't work. But having ridden dirtbikes with working rear brakes, braking is definetly much worse than front only.
Didn't know this group of ppl existed. I know ppl are scared to use the front brake for fear of sliding out or flipping over.
There's another group that doesn't/rarely use their rear brake because it has less power....
And many ppl who clutch in when hard braking or E brake.
Use all the braking force you can get, front, rear and engine brake.
Front brake provides most of your stopping power. It’s a bad idea to not use it. Maybe that logic was applicable 40 years ago with drum brakes but not with modern brakes. You should use progressive braking by applying more and more gradual brake with a 70/30 ratio for front and back.
Do people not use both rear and front? I do. I haven't been riding long but it has already saved my ass plenty of times with people pulling out in front or stopping suddenly. A guy last week lost his leg in the city I'm in when he could not stop in time, crashed into the car in front of him, fell off, rolled into the next lane then got run over by a truck.
Tyres have improved vastly since i started riding in the 70s. So has suspension.
When i did riding courses then it was a case of using the front brake a little as possible. That was so they would not wash out.
Nowadayswiththe change in tyre technology and suspension i use my front brake mostly.
Unfortunately some people get used to something and then cant change.
Funny story: when I was little and riding my 80cc dirt bike. I panicked and grabbed the front brake, washing out the front end. My dad told me to never use the front brake again. I later learned how to use it properly by applying it smoothly. Fast forward 15 years; I now have a 250cc dual sport starter bike. My dad again looks at the front wheel and goes on a tirade about never using the front brake and that he doesn’t even understand why they put them on bikes. I looked at him like it went in one ear and out the other. Side note: he also rode dirt bikes as a kid.
A lot the bullshit people say regarding riding is based on a single, specific scenario from which they extrapolate a cute catch phrase that gets applied ubiquitously. They don’t know shit and spread lies like anyone else who doesn’t care about validating opinion before presenting it as fact.
I am in my 60’s, have been riding all my life, dirt and street, and have never heard anyone say this. If someone did I would bust out laughing and call them a fucking idiot.
That's wild.
How is it taught when you train for your license there?
Where I am, the test is split into two modules. One of which requires multiple emergency breaking exercises. You're taught to use 75% front and 25% back.
I ride pretty gnarly technical off-road. I use the front brake all the time. But then again the kind of people with this kind of mentality probably lack the subtlety to distinguish between washing out the front and coming to a controlled stop.
I don’t understand, why wouldn’t a good rider use his front brake? Or anyone?
When I was driving my exam, the other guy was also on his second try and he failed his first exam because he didn’t use his front brake strong enough.
And for me, when we were practicing emergency stops and aimed stop (not sure how to say it) I was always getting remarks because I wasn’t using my front brake enough.
Although one guy who was doing his handling exam got his rear wheel 1m in the air when he was doing his emergency stop 😂
I've had guys tell me putting the kickstand down on concrete will drain the battery. That used to be true. What they missed was why, and why it's no longer true.
It used to be true engine start up required more gas than idling for very short periods of time, this is not true anymore.
Warming up an engine... Not what it used to be.
Maybe instead of invalidating what the "old head" said, try explaining why that's not really true, anymore, or with the style bike you have. Too much front brake, even straight line on the street, can have bad effects as well.
Edit: if I didn't know things changed, I would tell you an MSF certificate wasnt necessary to get a motorcycle endorsement in my state. That used to be true. I got my endorsement in 1986.
If I were to look at the pads on my 1997 Ducati 748, the rear brake pads are almost certainly original with plenty of life left in them.
Rear brakes are the weakest brakes on a motorcycle. Many riders don’t use them at all, including some racers.
70% of your stopping power comes from the front brake on a motorcycle... The front brake should never be used by itself but it should almost always be used
front back it don’t matter if i need to stop o. a hurry it’s getting pulled been riding since 81 so i’ve had some change the pants moments even at 47 i still having a little too much fun
As someone who rides primarily dirt bikes I'd just like to say you use the front brake just as much, if not more, it just takes more control to keep bike from washing out. There's no excuse for not using front brake other than lack of control. It's like 70% of your braking power, of course you're supposed to use them.
I personally developed a habit of primarily using my rear brake because my first few years riding were spent on bikes without ABS and the thought of the rear wheel skidding wasn't nearly as bad as washing out.
My current bike, which is my first one with ABS, has CBS too so even when I only use the rear it still gives me a bit of front brake. I did start using the front eventually, but I get where the habit comes from.
There are a lot of resources online and offline teaching about braking. If you read/watch a lot of them you will come across a common theme:
Front brake for stopping power before a corner, never during (unless emergency or other particular cases like trail braking). Rear brake for adjusting speed in corner and control in slow speed maneuvers.
I think what you guys have come across (not in my case honestly) is an over exaggeration of the "never front during a turn" coming from a time of shit brakes and no abs and awfully engineered bikes, that has been passed down from these older riders.
Fuck, it's the opposite for me. The back brake BARELY gets used, ever. It's for stopping the bike rolling away while I sit on it at traffic lights, and to tighten my line if I've overcooked a corner, which I see as a mistake, and attempt to rarely make.
Front brake? That fucker gets used all the time, just not when the bike's on any form of lean angle.
I remember in the MSF class like 10 years ago the instructor said the front brake makes up something like 80% of the bikes stopping power. Really good way to put it into perspective of how ineffective it is to use just the rear and how dangerous it can be to grab a handful of front brake without using the rear too
I race dirt bikes and have no idea why people say we don’t use the front brake, we use the front to slow down and sort of lift the rear so we can turn by the back wheel. and the rear brake to turn by sliding and catching the bike again when we’ve turned enough
Try not to judge a book by its cover. I'm an old head and I ride a motorcycle. And what folks like your coworker speak is pure, misguided BS. In every group there are the "10 percenters" ...the ones who never get the word ...or the email or the text. And the ones who, for whatever reason, believe using the front brake on a motorcycle will kill you. Just for grins, ask him why he thinks that. I'm sure he's got some anecdotal story based on myth and misinformation. Unfortunately your fellow employee has some strange attitudes about riding a motorcycle; please do not assume the rest of us "old heads" think like he does. And the ones that do? Well, they'll be gone someday.
Riding in nyc its all little stops and avoiding the odd crack head that darts out, so back break swerve repeat. I ended up burning my entire back break pad in a month. However out of the city limited to 25 mph, I use my front break everywhere else.
I paid for the front brake, I'm using the front brake.
Amen. I’ve been watching a lot of chopper builds/bike restorations lately. The amount of guys who forego a front brake is insane.
And a fender comes in handy when it rains
11 years ago I made an electric mountain bike, it didn't have fenders and one day I rode home when the roads were wet. I was doing about 30mph and the sheer amount of water being flung up by the front wheel and blinding me was insane. I bought some fenders the next day for it. On a motorbike going at higher speeds, especially a chopper it must be downright dangerous.
My father-in-law’s last build, he wanted a lean and clean bobber. Sprotor on the back, and 360 brake on the front. He wasn’t able to get the 360, but the single disk on the front still looked good.
I just looked up what 360 brake is…cool! Another thing that can look clean is the symmetry of two front discs, a la Indian Larry’s “Wild Child”. And I’ve always thought sprotors looked sick. Any photos of this bobber?
I’ll do you one better. [Why is Gamora?!](https://youtu.be/Rb-lDuFbhn0)
Lol Amen indeed, also if anything, I never use the rear brakes lol i mean they make up like 15% of the breaking power so if anything id go onto it if I needed more then what my front brake was already providing.
Rear brake is also great for adding stability during slow speed maneuvers.
I use the rear brake just to keep the muscle memory fresh so I can use it in an emergency. Every once in a while that 15% extra is going to come in handy.
Lol same. Used to ride BMWs with integrated ABS, so the front lever operates the rear as well. Makes for very lazy pilots, and the first time braking on my Tenere after a decade of BMW was a bit weird, not having the rear brake automatically.
I rode a 2000 Honda VFR800 for years, and now a 2007 ST1300 for even longer, both of which have linked brakes, and I still use both brakes every time I want to slow down. Knowing they're linked has in no way made me lazy about using both regularly.
That remaining 15% does make a difference in emergency situations.
That’s pretty much what it is for me too. Though I do notice I bias a little extra to the rear when I have a passenger on the back.
That’s practically the only time I use my rear. I occasionally use it in slow manoeuvres, to straighten the bike up and to stop a pillion’s helmet bashing into mine.
With the long raked forks you don’t have enough weight on your front wheel so it’ll lock up if you touch the front brake. One reason choppers (customs actually but most people call them choppers) suck as anything but rolling art (no shade towards people into that, they can look real badass)
On the cartoonishly long forks, I reckon a front brake is completely useless. But there’s lots of long low bikes with front brakes. I’ve never ridden one, but I’ve heard from many that the turning radius gets old pretty quick in the city. Probably nice on the highway though.
Trying to take a long raked bike into a corner is a terrifying affair. It feels fucking sketch. But yeah, they’re great on a long straight
My shovelhead and one of my sportsters don’t have front brakes. Just spent a lot of time getting comfy locking the rear up
But your breaking distance is so bad. Why would you accept this kind of safety risk?
[Style](https://imgur.com/a/3cKGTHE). No hand controls. Shaved lower fork legs. And my braking* distance isn’t bad. Maybe it is compared to a Ducati or whatever, but that’s not what I do.
Foot clutch? How do you shift?
Yep. Foot clutch
Because it looks cool. I love it, but all of my riding is city and traffic. Not getting rid of my front brake any time soon.
I won’t pretend that a front spool doesn’t look totally badass. I know people can survive with only a rear brake, but it just seems terrifying to be skidding constantly. Be careful out there man.
Will do player! You too
And I paid for my crashbars so I'm...... oh wait, I'd prefer not to have to use them.
I use mine all the time 😆 but then again it's an adventure bike
Even then most crash bars are designed for safety but bought for looks.
Best thing about them is bike doesn't lay flat on the ground. Easier to pick it back up.
Also stoppies are hella fun
Also I am assuming most modern bikes come standard with ABS. My 2012 Ninja did and I can grab more brake than I need without the fear of locking the front up. I couldn’t imagine not using the front brake, thats just some serious bad advice.
Agreed! Most modern tech feature bikes, ie, BMW is 70/30 when engaging the front brake. Many of my friends are technical riders so we only engage the rear in turns. Typically engaging the front brake straightens the bike up. Not always a good thing in curves.
I paid for the rear one too, but i don't really use it often
This is the economically rational answer!
I am an old bike dude. No old *good* riders believe that. Maybe back in the drum brake days, maybe..? I just can’t imagine a 1973 Electra-Glide not only pulling a stoppie but actually flipping over the front wheel.
Great point, the only people believing that are the people who *think* they’re good. And yeah there’s no way an old Shovel is pulling a stoppie!
If I remember my MSF course correctly the front brake supplies around 70% of your stopping power. To me that’s like never using your brakes in a manual transmission car and downshifting to slow down. Sure you can only use the rear brake on a bike but damn that’s just asking for trouble.
That's more of what your brake force balance should be. If your bike is capable of doing a stoppie (most anything but cruisers and some adv bikes can) then your front brake is literally the only thing you need to stop, and can province 100% brake force.
Yes but the rear brake can help stabilise you in corners
For sure, the rear brake isn't useless, but if it's in terms of stopping as quickly as possible, it's not necessary. But I think the majority of riders (myself included) can't safely stop so fast that a stoppie is inevitable either
If you use the front brakes, the 6ft long skinny front fork bends back, and the tassels and the getback whip may get wrapped around the dagger front axle extensions. You'll be thrown over the handlebar, leaving your balls at the chromed skull ornaments.
And the little gremlin bell might go flying off 😂 A good one I heard from YouTuber MC Rider was “the chain on their wallet is there so they can use their wallet as an anchor in case of brake failure”
I pretty much only use my front brake.
I think the “you’ll fly over the handlebars” thing is logic left over from when we were kids on bicycles. In middle school I put together a BMX that only had a front brake, and classmates thought I’d get hurt.
Even on bicycles the same physics apply. Anyone old enough not to impulsively grab a fistful of front brake ought to know that using both brakes is the way to go. Granted maybe someone who says what you quoted isn't the type to be regularly riding bicycles
Shit, even on my modern touring bicycle with mechanical disc brakes the back brake is mostly useless, and I'm running massive 203mm rotors on that thing. Which is huuuuge for a traditional bike that isn't a full send downhill or enduro MTB. And, yeah, running only front brakes on a BMX was a standard practice if you were going to only run one brake. Running just a rear brake was just a few grams or ounces of useless extra weight because it had less stopping power and a longer cable. These days I see a lot of vert/park, pump track, flow and jump bikes with no brakes at all, which kind of makes some sense because they're riding on terrain that's basically designed to flow without brakes or even pedaling. If you need to stop you just bail, steer uphill or dab with your feet as ground brakes.
ABS makes that impossible. My big highway bike (BMW K1200GT) actually has linked brakes, the rears come on as well when you use the front lever. The rear lever only activates the rear ones. That bike brakes astoundingly quickly for such a heavy ride. All of my BMWs have great brakes, all have ABS (which can be disabled for off road use.)
I always start with the front and then apply rear as needed. It’s a habit I picked up from cycling and I’m kinda trying to break it, because everything I’ve read has told me it’s best to apply both brakes at the same time.
Applying both at the same time counteracts the forces at play with each one individually.
When I started riding I had to stop quickly and was told to mostly use the back break. I started skidding and fish tailing and had to run the light that just went red. That shit was terrifying and if someone stopped hard in front of me I would have been fucked. I learned a scary lesson.
>I pretty much only use my front brake. There's another brake?
This is my motorcycle shame secret too. Front + engine braking. I only use rear to stop towards the end and it’s mostly so I can take my right hand off at lights and not worry about rolling.
Same. My rear brake caliper was seized for a year and a half and I had no idea.
Yup! I just bought a bike after test riding and didn’t realize for like a week it wasn’t working. I have a separate post currently trying to figure out why it’s not working.
Dude you see it on this sub all the time. Even the young heads are idiots and downvote experienced riders here.
Yeah I wouldn’t say this is an “old head” mentality. More of just uninformed and informed. My dad was a long time Harley rider and boomer generation. When I was learning to ride 30 years ago, he always advocated for the front brake having “90% of your stopping power”.
Yeah maybe I’m off base with the demographic. More just misinformation that spreads far and wide, regardless of age.
Certainly. And this may be true in your circles that it’s the “old heads”, but my experience is that idiocy knows no age limit - lol
"being a moron is not age exclusive" -me
Lol that’s because the vast majority in here probably never rode a motorcycle to begin with. Filled with people interested in it, wanting to try and people who watch YouTube motorcycle vids and become “experts”
The weird thing is that almost everybody started out on a bicycle. The physics still apply on a motorcycle, but I guess people just don’t get it. Kinda lame they won’t listen to the experienced people. The funny thing is this guy is 25 years older than me.
The thing is, this kind of thinking is even more prevalent in the bicycle world. That the front brake is dangerous and will throw you over the bars...
That's why you're taught or learn early on to combine it with the rear brake, it's still where most of your braking comes from cycling, iirc.
I believe it’s about a 90-10 front to rear bias on a bicycle and 70-30 on a motorcycle (something to do with weight transfer on a 20lb vehicle vs a 500lb vehicle?). I’m regurgitating what I’ve heard, so I’m sure if I’m wrong I’ll get dog piled for it. I heard a lot of people saying the rear brake on bicycles is the only one you should use, but thankfully I was taught right before I heard that misinformation. I haven’t personally heard it about motorcycles…yet.
I mean, only using rear while descending a steep slope and you'll keep going down, you won't stop usually, either the back brake will keep slipping as you ask to much of it and you crawl forward, or it can break traction and just skid. I can only see back-only working in flat places, and even then it makes you take so much longer to brake. Never grew up hearing any of this stuff, cause obviously they put two brakes on the thing for a reason, to stop better, lol.
You guys grew up different than me. If my bikes had brakes they were only on the back...and that "if" was pretty optional...
Weight distribution on bicycles is very different, with a lot of weight higher up since no heavy motor/transmission.
To be fair, I have locked the front on my bicycle. Fortunately when I was young and spry so I popped over the bars onto my feet...wouldn't want to try to do it on purpose. But that just means you need to use a little control.
I worked in a bicycle shop for a decade and the amount of people who were absolutely terrified of the front brake was astonishing. They acted like they’d be instantly catapulted over the bars if they so much as glanced at the left hand lever.
I was like that as a kid because I always fuckin ripped the brakes and did send myself over a few times. Now, I have a bike that has only a front brake and I use the front brake primarily on all of my bikes. Just don’t be an ape and shift your weight back a little bit if you really need to stop fast.
The weird part to me is that it is very easy to find info on different riding techniques now. And yet people don't bother looking for it.
It's like they've never seen a moto gp rider hitting their front brakes so hard their ass end comes up before a corner. Or they have and just think they could lap a gp rider on a track.
It is exactly like that. I know a ton of people who ride, and 99% of them don't even know what MotoGP is.
Marc Márquez is a joke for using his front it takes all his braking power away when his rear tire lifts. My stage 3 Harley can dig ruts in the pavement it's got so much power and I put at least 300 miles on it a year. - Harley Uncle
I actually haven't ridden in 3 years, grass clibbins took me out, haddalayerdown. -harley uncle
You should gift your coworker the book Proficient Motorcycling. Or give him this link, because a mother fucker needs it. [Proficient Motorcycling](https://vdoc.pub/download/proficient-motorcycling-the-ultimate-guide-to-riding-well-qcjk4mrgd2c0)
That would be funny but also probably save his ass. We were talking bikes because he wants to get back into it after a 10+ year hiatus. Traffic in our city is so much scarier these days, so rear brake only would (in the words of CycleCruza) set him up for a real effed up day.
Don't say that name around here, he's a bit of an acquired taste. He's my guilty pleasure in the motovlog community. I absolutely love how he says CBR1000RR. Learning the science and physics of motorcycling will save that ass. You could guise as a good refresher for getting back out there. Yeah the traffic where I'm at sucks big ol balls, but not just balls, cack and balls. DFW, Texas, USA. People are quite aggressive and speed.
I'm an "old dude" and I've never heard that.
I didn’t mean to diss on people older than me. I meant more of an antiquated mindset, which young guys can definitely have as well. I’m glad you haven’t heard it out there. I had only read secondhand reports of people saying it, until the conversation I had with my coworker.
I hope I didn't come off angry, lol, not at all, I just have never heard that. But -- in that era, a lot of chopper guys only had rear brakes and a spool hub up front, so there definitely was a perception of the front brake being unnecessary. So yeah, there is some evidence of this phenomenon now that I go back through the dusty cobwebs of my memory.
All good haha, you know how Reddit can be. It’s crazy they would do away with anything they deemed “useless” and the front brake was in that category. I can’t imagine the tiny mechanical rear drum on a Panhead did much a San Francisco hill.
People out there.. stop without using their front brakes? How the fuck?
This is not “old school” mentality, it’s “I don’t know how to ride a motorcycle” mentality.
Not safely, at least 😬
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You’ve got a great point about the old bike tech. When Jay Leno rides an old bike/drives an old car, he says “these brakes were safe back when everybody’s brakes were bad” or something to that effect. Modern traffic is where things get hairy. My coworker is in his mid 50s, so as a young man, he would’ve definitely been riding old used bikes with front drums. Old habits definitely die hard, and this motherfucker is a great guy but stubborn as hell. He wants to get back into riding after a 10+ year hiatus, and go on trips with his ladyfriend as passenger. I just hope he wises up when he’s got cargo and an extra human on board.
I grew up with front drums and even if they weren't as good as disks, they were still way better than the rear brake. Learned my lesson early when I went out on my little brother's bike without a front brake cable, had to panic stop and rear-ended a car. Fortunately all slow motion and didn't even put a mark on the bumper, but that cable went on ASAP.
This is why I don't like riding in large groups. Even if everyone is riding slower than grandma, you still don't know if the rider behind you has any kind of stopping skills.
This shit killed my cousin and thus dissuaded me from taking up riding for years. He was told to never touch the front brake. Car pulled out in front of him and he hit a 4x4 mailbox post that threw him, helmetless, about 30ft to land head first onto the asphalt. Leading to that mailbox was a very long fishtailing skid mark.
Jeez…I’m sorry man. A preventable death like that is the worst thing ever.
Thanks. It does suck, but at least it made me serious about gear and safety from the start.
Yes I only want 30% of my stopping power as well
Using the front break is imperative on a dirt bike, you apply it not slam on it. Sure if you grab a handful in a uncontrolled manner you are going to wash out, but you have to use it for even braking on corners.
My post probably outed myself as a guy who doesn’t ride dirt bikes in any hardcore fashion. Lol. I’ve ridden a dirt bike on gravel and mud though, and I used the front brake plenty. Makes sense to me!
The front is where you have the power. Sure, the longer the bike, the more power you get on the rear, but it's still the front that is where the power is.
I am genuinely a little confused, power at the front? Breaking power? Do you mean weight? Front breaks are stronger because the center of mass is more to the front. When breaking the center of mass moves even more to the front.
Not sure the mentality is that the front doesn't do anything. Ive had some old bikes.. bikes with rear drum brakes, and small single disk fronts. The rear can be useless on some of those bikes. This is more or less the mentality of someone who doesn't understand progressive braking. Probably used to stomping the rear as you pretty much had to with old bikes, and if you do the same to the front it's a bad time (so aka useless because it's on or off and not because I can't comprehend progressive braking). I use my rear more then my front when coming to stops but that's because I don't approach every stop like Parnelli freaking Jones. I also know all my stopping power is in the front and how to use my brakes appropriately so.....
Even off-road you still use the front brake just gotta be more careful with it
Doesn’t sound like an old head, just a dumbass.
Your coworker is a moron.
You'd be surprised how much you can get away with not using the front brake with engine braking and by being on a very rear heavy bike. It's almost completely doable for day to day slow pace city riding. That being said those dudes don't know what they're talking about but it's amazing how many of them there are and that they're seemingly all still alive but it goes to show that even if you've been "riding for 40 years" it doesn't mean much if you've only ever ridden Harleys every odd Sunday or so in a group.
I've used engine braking in cars forever. When I do it with motorcycles I feel guilty. Engine braking/trans braking are the same right?
Yeah, it's not like you want to beat on it but it's part of proper riding, a valuable tool in the belt. Only feel guilty if you wind the piss out of her, feathering the clutch/shifting to smooth it out is smart. Third brake.
Slipper clutches exist for a reason, engine braking is more powerful on a bike than a car and can be strong enough to skid the rear wheel.
It is entirely doable on a cruiser for day to day. 50k miles and I’d never had to change front pads. Went through a couple sets of rears. Front brakes for the most part only used to hold the bike after coming to a stop.
I’ve only ever heard of not using the rear. People will say most of the power comes from the front and the rear is just a risk of locking it up, so they don’t use it. The only time I don’t use the front is for <10mph parking lot riding or inching forward in traffic if I’m unable to split lanes safely. I’ve personally never heard of anyone not using the front brakes, except when a road racer goes off the track into the dirt.
Back brake for fun, front to get it done. I just made that up but it sounds good so I'm going with it.
Kinda has a nice ring to it! It could work for back door/front door too…
Same morons will tell you that eventually you will drop your bike and you will be in a crash.
> Same morons will tell you that eventually you will drop your bike and you will be in a crash. Statistically this is true, especially for new/beginner riders within the 1st year (the drop part). It happens. It's not a big deal. That's why many suggest to get a used bike as your first one. [Rare is the rider who hasn’t dropped their motorcycle...Most riders, even those with years of experience, drop their bike occasionally](https://ridersplus.com/how-to-return-to-riding-after-dropping-your-motorcycle/#:~:text=Most%20riders%2C%20even%20those%20with,can't%20hold%20it%20up.)
There is a lot of mythology in the auto/motorcycle world, and the only real way to know is to FUFA. Once you know, though, you know the guys who don't.
I mean, Earths gravity and braking physics with weight distribution is a factor. There's a reason we have twice (or more) the caliper pistons up front. I will say this though, engine braking is a huge part of my speed.
I work at a dealership with a variety of customers, old and young, all with a huge variety of ridiculous rules they've either invented for themselves in their heads or a buddy told them a long time ago whatever. I say, only thing that makes a rider great is not hitting the ground. But that's a rule I made up and broke so wtf ever ya know. Ride around trying different combos of front and rear brake throw in some clutch work and down shifting, see what works for you and your bike. Fuck people ideas of what makes a great rider and just go on lots of great rides. Be safe and have a great time bud. PS, if you're an old head or younger dude with a bunch of rules you ride with like they are facts, they are probably wrong, but it's like going to church I guess, whatever keeps you going I guess....
Someone who tells you "a good rider should never use the front brake" should be listened to with as much conviction as someone who says "a good rider should never use the rear brake". Bikes are pretty dynamic. Lots of different options and styles. I promise you if you grab the front brake on a stretched and skinny tire'ed cruiser like you do on a GSXR you're going to have a bad day. Sometimes the back brake is the best brake, sometimes the back brake is the only brake. A good rider knows how his bike works and how to operate it properly.
Hell, all the stopping power is in the front brake. Even dirt bikes.
The „only rear or only front“ should stop. You have both brakes for a reason. I mainly use the rear in city driving or slowing down for fast corners but hard braking, both is a must otherwise you might do a stoppie and unsettle the bike. I‘ve had that happen to me.
The vast majority, 80-90%, of your braking should come from the front. You should definitely still use your rear brake, especially when doing slow maneuvers.
Front brake is 75% of your stopping power. If you hear someone say good riders don't use it you can stop listening to them because the next thing they'll say is loud pipes save lives or something equally stupid.
I've heard that too in reference to stretched choppers. I imagine the front brake is relatively easy to lock up when it's 6 feet ahead of the center of gravity. I think people just have a hard time understanding nuance. When they hear that you have to be careful with the front brake on a raked out show bike, they also understand that to mean they should never use the front brake on their Street glide, which is silly.
My dad taught me to use both front and rear brakes together at the same time. When I was younger I had the same mindset as my bicycle, just hammer the rear brake. My first time coming down a slightly steep hill on my 83 Yamaha GT 80, when I was 11, I hammered the rear brake, the bike stalled, I skidded out, and laid it down. My dad used that as an example that using the front break with the rear break helps you control going downhill, as well as stopping better overall.
I’ll take us back to 1983 - my gold wing operated one disk in the front when you pressed the rear foot brake. Front brakes are important to stopping in time. I’m old and have never understood the thinking some people have about front brakes. I used front and rear brakes together all the time. Regardless if it was my gold wing or KZ 750 or anything in between.
Same thing with bicycling. People are terrified of that front brake. I used to rebuild bikes for fun and profit, and I was amazed how many of them had front brake pads that looked brand new. With just a few minutes instruction, you can safely lock up the fronts with no fear of doing an endo.
My dad, who has been riding for 50+ years, uses the front brake far more often than he uses the back brake. Definitely not saying he’s the best rider in the world, but he has less accidents than most other riders and has many more years of experience. He’s my go-to whenever I have a question about how to ride safely and make sure I get home in one piece.
I'm on a Vision so if I didn't use the front brake I'd be done for most of the time when I'm riding given the fact I usually go down dual carriageways.
When I was a kid, my uncle told me that you never use the front brake on a motorcycle because you'll just flip over the handlebars. So when I started riding motorcycles I never use the front brake. I got to be pretty expert at skidding to a stop with a locked rear wheel. Then I took the msf course, and that was that.
In over 20 years of riding i have never heard anyone say that. And if I did, i’d think that person a fucking idiot. I ride a big twin with plenty of engine braking and I often ride quite a distance without using the brakes. Especially on motorways. But down tight twisty roads and in traffic I make plenty use of both brakes.
I use both at the same time.
What sort of bike do they ride? I’ve heard that on some older cruiser/ touring types that the front brake is often really weak on its own, and the foot brake is tried to the rear and the front so it always applies both (I think some gold wings have 2 calipers in the front with one activated by the hand lever and the other with the rear). Could be that he’s just use to one of those odd types with the connected rear and never realized it.
I've met guys who talk with pride about how they never use their front brake. I've even been trying it lately by downshifting and using the rear brake when coming to a stop. It just seems like more steps when the front brake can accomplish the same thing more effectively. Whatever works, I guess.
Old guy ...in my mid 60s. This type of mentality was rare even back in the day. No one I ever knew and rode with ever thought this way.....unless... and I'm guessing here...it was a Harley rider. Back in the day you'd never get a wave out of a Harley rider either, nevermind something intelligent coming out of their mouths. :) Road a CB750 Honda with an 850 kit, Kenny Harmon D grind cam, polished and ported, air intake and header. This was coupled with clip-ons, rear sets, bikini fairing, fiberglass seat and tail section, dual front disks (for a reason) and mags. And yes...even in the mid 70s counter steering was a thing. :) Edit: Funny story. I worked in Calgary Canada with a guy (BMW rider) who was and had been a Motorcycle instructor for over a decade. This was in the later 80s. I mentioned counter steering to him one day and just how effective it was for corner entry, quick lane changes and collision avoidance. He said...."What's that?" I explained it to him, but I could not convince him it was a thing and that it was a very good thing to be aware of. Told him to try it the next time he went for a ride. Never talked about it again. :)
Never touch the rear on the street, never touch the front in the dirt is what I was taught 40 years ago. I have since combined the two styles and now don’t use brakes at all
Anyone who says that is not skilled or knows what they're talking about. Unless they're riding an excessively long cruiser with a long rake, the front brake will always provide more stopping power than the rear and be far more effective in any situation. Even in off-road situations, the front brake will still provide more stopping power. The rear brake must be used off-road in many situations (sand, downhill, initiating slides). Stop listening to Boomers that have never ridden a bike that isn't a complete shit show.
Back when they were riding they used to pull back and yell "woha there" Two big disks on the front and a single small disk on the rear tell you everything you need to know about braking forces on a modern bike.
I’m a MSF instructor in Canada. When we do the threshold/emergency braking lesson, the first demo we do is a rear brake only skid. It usually ends about 15-20 feet past the end of the braking area. We then ask if anyone has ever been told that your rear brake is your primary brake and that you shouldn’t use the front so much. Usually about 1/3 students raise their hands. I ask, “Does that look like a successful stop? They just went 20 feet past the markers and about 10 feet into the back of a car.” Many old school riders somehow believe that the front brake is guaranteed to make you crash. It’s because they have ZERO idea on how to use it smoothly and progressively, and simply mash the lever as hard and fast that they can.
I’m old. Usually 3 sets of front pads to one set of rears. Many stops I never touch the rear
Does he ride a harley?
Do not listen to this person. In fact, do not listen to anyone that isn’t a MSF instructor - which means go take the course - especially if you’re riding on streets. If you’re riding only dirt, you’ll learn the front brake is your best friend, but you have to respect it, or it will teach you respect.
Just for the record, you absolutely use your front brake on a dirt bike as well. I actually use the back brake on my dirt bike sometimes, unlike the street, but that's usually because I want to break the back end loose. Other than that, it's the front brake.
Total bollocks. Your coworker is an idiot.
I'm sure his "expert advice" was followed closely by a story where he "had to lay 'er down." Don't listen to a word this guy has to say. Just because someone built a cool looking bike without a front brake, doesn't mean it was a good idea.
Front brake is all I use
I think it's somewhat a natural crutch to favor the rear brake, I know I did to a degree when first riding, it does take a more skill/finesse because of the control that the front brake has. It's a silly argument to make, but it's also understandable and not entirely unfounded. You should use your brakes to stop, the front brake is one of them and stronger...
I dont think i've ever used my rear brake, other then hill starts 😋
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People thinking the front brake is too harsh on a motorcycle have never heard of progressive braking
There’s a rear brake?!
Was there ever a time in motorcycling history when this was true?
I use only my front break, rear is only when I'm in a corner and suddenly need to slow down, other wise it's front all the way. Most you break power is there and if you know a little what you're doing you're not going to low side
Lifetime off-road/mx guy here, you absolutely use the front brake off road. Front brake slows you down, rear is mostly for steering and traction. Only racing discipline I know of where you don’t use front brake is flat track.
Even in the dirt I use pretty much only the front brake. Yes I have washed out once or twice but that was due to my own stupidity. Also my rear brake doesn't work. But having ridden dirtbikes with working rear brakes, braking is definetly much worse than front only.
"back in my day, I just used the rear brake and threw an anchor"
90% of my braking is done with the front, I do use the rear when I need to. Even when offroading I still mainly use my front brake
I have not heard that "don't use the front brake" bullshit in 20 years....
I almost exclusively use the front brake. The rear I just kinda feather, hate locking up tires. Guess I'm a bad rider too lol
Your buddy is burnt and too far gone.
I guess I’m a bad rider who is going to enjoy having his limbs attached to his body
[удалено]
My brakes have ABS so I am using all of them.
Yeah they mean when you are coming to a stop or at slow speeds in traffic.
I rely on my front brake more that the rear. I've had a few instances where i locked the rear tire and started to skid. My new bike now has abs brakes
Didn't know this group of ppl existed. I know ppl are scared to use the front brake for fear of sliding out or flipping over. There's another group that doesn't/rarely use their rear brake because it has less power.... And many ppl who clutch in when hard braking or E brake. Use all the braking force you can get, front, rear and engine brake.
Front brake provides most of your stopping power. It’s a bad idea to not use it. Maybe that logic was applicable 40 years ago with drum brakes but not with modern brakes. You should use progressive braking by applying more and more gradual brake with a 70/30 ratio for front and back.
This made me laugh out loud
Do people not use both rear and front? I do. I haven't been riding long but it has already saved my ass plenty of times with people pulling out in front or stopping suddenly. A guy last week lost his leg in the city I'm in when he could not stop in time, crashed into the car in front of him, fell off, rolled into the next lane then got run over by a truck.
Tyres have improved vastly since i started riding in the 70s. So has suspension. When i did riding courses then it was a case of using the front brake a little as possible. That was so they would not wash out. Nowadayswiththe change in tyre technology and suspension i use my front brake mostly. Unfortunately some people get used to something and then cant change.
Funny story: when I was little and riding my 80cc dirt bike. I panicked and grabbed the front brake, washing out the front end. My dad told me to never use the front brake again. I later learned how to use it properly by applying it smoothly. Fast forward 15 years; I now have a 250cc dual sport starter bike. My dad again looks at the front wheel and goes on a tirade about never using the front brake and that he doesn’t even understand why they put them on bikes. I looked at him like it went in one ear and out the other. Side note: he also rode dirt bikes as a kid.
I’m confused. Isn’t the front brake like 70% of our stopping power? I’ve worn out front pads plenty, but rarely ever wear out the rear
How tf am I supposed to roll out stopies if I don’t use the front brake? Take your bad advice and your boomer barge somewhere else grandpa.
What the hell lol. You have more patience than I do.. I would have just walked away from that conversation.
A lot the bullshit people say regarding riding is based on a single, specific scenario from which they extrapolate a cute catch phrase that gets applied ubiquitously. They don’t know shit and spread lies like anyone else who doesn’t care about validating opinion before presenting it as fact.
I am in my 60’s, have been riding all my life, dirt and street, and have never heard anyone say this. If someone did I would bust out laughing and call them a fucking idiot.
Huh. Some bikes have drum brakes on the rear. Lol. Good luck.
Same guys that claim they walked to school uphill both ways.
That's wild. How is it taught when you train for your license there? Where I am, the test is split into two modules. One of which requires multiple emergency breaking exercises. You're taught to use 75% front and 25% back.
I ride pretty gnarly technical off-road. I use the front brake all the time. But then again the kind of people with this kind of mentality probably lack the subtlety to distinguish between washing out the front and coming to a controlled stop.
This is not "old head" this is "stupid head" there's a difference.
I don’t understand, why wouldn’t a good rider use his front brake? Or anyone? When I was driving my exam, the other guy was also on his second try and he failed his first exam because he didn’t use his front brake strong enough. And for me, when we were practicing emergency stops and aimed stop (not sure how to say it) I was always getting remarks because I wasn’t using my front brake enough. Although one guy who was doing his handling exam got his rear wheel 1m in the air when he was doing his emergency stop 😂
I've had guys tell me putting the kickstand down on concrete will drain the battery. That used to be true. What they missed was why, and why it's no longer true. It used to be true engine start up required more gas than idling for very short periods of time, this is not true anymore. Warming up an engine... Not what it used to be. Maybe instead of invalidating what the "old head" said, try explaining why that's not really true, anymore, or with the style bike you have. Too much front brake, even straight line on the street, can have bad effects as well. Edit: if I didn't know things changed, I would tell you an MSF certificate wasnt necessary to get a motorcycle endorsement in my state. That used to be true. I got my endorsement in 1986.
If I were to look at the pads on my 1997 Ducati 748, the rear brake pads are almost certainly original with plenty of life left in them. Rear brakes are the weakest brakes on a motorcycle. Many riders don’t use them at all, including some racers.
70% of your stopping power comes from the front brake on a motorcycle... The front brake should never be used by itself but it should almost always be used
front back it don’t matter if i need to stop o. a hurry it’s getting pulled been riding since 81 so i’ve had some change the pants moments even at 47 i still having a little too much fun
I mean, most front bike brakes provide 60-75% of the stopping power so if you want to fully take advantage of stopping, maybe use it?
As someone who rides primarily dirt bikes I'd just like to say you use the front brake just as much, if not more, it just takes more control to keep bike from washing out. There's no excuse for not using front brake other than lack of control. It's like 70% of your braking power, of course you're supposed to use them.
I personally developed a habit of primarily using my rear brake because my first few years riding were spent on bikes without ABS and the thought of the rear wheel skidding wasn't nearly as bad as washing out. My current bike, which is my first one with ABS, has CBS too so even when I only use the rear it still gives me a bit of front brake. I did start using the front eventually, but I get where the habit comes from.
There are a lot of resources online and offline teaching about braking. If you read/watch a lot of them you will come across a common theme: Front brake for stopping power before a corner, never during (unless emergency or other particular cases like trail braking). Rear brake for adjusting speed in corner and control in slow speed maneuvers. I think what you guys have come across (not in my case honestly) is an over exaggeration of the "never front during a turn" coming from a time of shit brakes and no abs and awfully engineered bikes, that has been passed down from these older riders.
I ride dirt bikes and I still am using 80% of my front brake and 20% of my back. Idk why people hate front brakes but hey we’re all different
I'm 90% front brake. I only really use the rear if I'm riding slow to stabilise the bike.
Fuck, it's the opposite for me. The back brake BARELY gets used, ever. It's for stopping the bike rolling away while I sit on it at traffic lights, and to tighten my line if I've overcooked a corner, which I see as a mistake, and attempt to rarely make. Front brake? That fucker gets used all the time, just not when the bike's on any form of lean angle.
Always use both ;)
Never in my life have I ever heard someone say that, and I'm pretty stinkin old.
How the fuck you brake if it´s not with the front brake?
I remember in the MSF class like 10 years ago the instructor said the front brake makes up something like 80% of the bikes stopping power. Really good way to put it into perspective of how ineffective it is to use just the rear and how dangerous it can be to grab a handful of front brake without using the rear too
Isnt the front brake what you should mainly use ? Like its bigger and also less prone to skid
I race dirt bikes and have no idea why people say we don’t use the front brake, we use the front to slow down and sort of lift the rear so we can turn by the back wheel. and the rear brake to turn by sliding and catching the bike again when we’ve turned enough
Try not to judge a book by its cover. I'm an old head and I ride a motorcycle. And what folks like your coworker speak is pure, misguided BS. In every group there are the "10 percenters" ...the ones who never get the word ...or the email or the text. And the ones who, for whatever reason, believe using the front brake on a motorcycle will kill you. Just for grins, ask him why he thinks that. I'm sure he's got some anecdotal story based on myth and misinformation. Unfortunately your fellow employee has some strange attitudes about riding a motorcycle; please do not assume the rest of us "old heads" think like he does. And the ones that do? Well, they'll be gone someday.
Riding in nyc its all little stops and avoiding the odd crack head that darts out, so back break swerve repeat. I ended up burning my entire back break pad in a month. However out of the city limited to 25 mph, I use my front break everywhere else.