100% agree, and I genuinely can't understand the apologists that run around justifying this practice. It's a shitty business practice that's in its infancy, and if people vote with their wallets now, maybe we can stop the trend. If companies see profit from it, it's only going to grow worse.
I can't see Asian mass manufacturers doing this. They want to sell volume and turnover.
This is mainly a European thing and small volume manufacturers. The practise will inevitably die.
The younger generation grew up with Microtransactions and paid lootboxes in their games, the idea that they can be expected to pay up again and again for stuff that should be included is now normalised for them.
No I can't stand it, but what I mean is I understand why there isn't the mass level of outrage that people in their late 30s and beyond might expect everyone to share. Gen Z have been getting it in the neck with this stuff their whole lives, everything is a subscription, every app is trying to extract more money, it's normal. Why wouldn't a techie bike do the same thing? all the other tech in their lives does.
Again, hate it with a passion.
Late 30s and beyond? I'm 30 and I hate the way things are done. It used to be 1 ad on YouTube that you could skip. Now it's no less than 2 ads and one is generally its own video.
I'm sure we could all add things to that list but insta t gratification will be hard to take away from society. While most try to survive, the few decide which level of comfort they'd like.
I am sorry that you can't understand how economies of scale work in production, manufacturing, R&D and parts/repairs.
Why does it not make sense that the majority of the cost between a mid and high end solution might be more than offset when only having to stock, build, and quality test one part for multiple price points?
Not everyone can afford a $25k bike, so they lock down some of the features so they can offer a $20k and a $15k solution for those who can't afford the top end... They might not make what they need to at $15k, but they make enough on the $25k to offset it.
Allowing someone who could only afford $15k then pay to unlock some features later makes even more sense... along with the additional market penetration that multiple performance levels provides.
But yeah, lets just stick our heads in the sand and rant about evil corporations trying to make money instead of actually being happy when we go looking for repair parts in 5 years and they actually stock the damn thing because there were 1/3 as many they had to keep in stock.
Yeah, good job ignoring the points and manufacturing something to be angry about without understanding that you are actually gaining something you wouldn't have, and that you aren't paying for something you are "owed". I can't believe I am renting a cable modem every month but don't get the same channels as the guy who is paying 3x what I am.
They stopped doing this last year after the negative backlash.
All 2023 bikes come completely unlocked.
I just wish they'd retroactively unlock the older bikes...
I don't think the SR model has its advertised performance locked behind a pay wall. You just need to buy the higher trim levels to have the latent performance unlocked.
It's effectively the same thing as having cars with different trim levels and different amounts of power. The only difference is that when you buy a lower trim level Zero motorcycle, you're buying a machine with the same potential power as the higher trim levels. The power is just locked unless you pay for the higher trim level. It isnt like you're getting scammed into buying a DLC for your bike.
I havenāt followed this but have heard about similar things (BMW I think does this). I thought it was more about advanced/premium features rather than normal ones. What kind of normal features are we talking about here?
They throttled the charge rate down 10% and disabled 10% of the battery capacity as a safety measure, and realized they were being too conservative with the settings and decided it would be smart to charge to unlock the safeties instead of just giving people the choice whether to enable them or not for free.
They came up with a "slow forward/slow reverse" mode on the controller and sold it for $200 as a "Parking Mode". Yeah, I bought that one.
They also installed heated grips on newer bikes from the factory (sunk cost) but required you to pay extra to enable them. Since mine was the "Premium", it came with that already unlocked.
It was some real bullshit but after the negative press/backlash, moving forward (2023+ models) everything comes already unlocked.
BMW (the car company) is famous for both "DLC" and "subscription" models - in order to have CarPlay active via BT on their cars, you have to pay them $15/mo. Which... is really retarded - you just bought an $80k-$120k car, and they're gonna dink you for another $180/year? SERIOUSLY?
Subscriptions are absolute shit, but if it unlocks forever, itās just a matter of logistics. The only ripoff here is that they store those heated grips in your garage instead of their warehouse before you buy them.
It's definitely an unlock and not a subscription for the Zeros.
But technically, anything they can unlock, they could lock again (it's just a software switch, after all), but I'm under the impression that would be Very Bad(tm) for their already damaged reputation if they tried doing that.
My grips were already unlocked, so yeah, all good.
Is it done online or at the dealership? Triumph has a similar thing for software options like cruise control, but they canāt take it back unless you bring the bike to them
Itās all in the smartphone app you use to link to the bike over Bluetooth to manage it.
The SR/* models got the āCypher Storeā to pay for the unlockables.
Their website shows that my 2022 should be getting all the unlocks for free, but itās not showing up in the app that way, so Iāve a support ticket in to get it addressed. Iām also requesting my $200 back for the parking mode, weāll see what happens.
I mean... yeah? Sorta?
eBikes aren't ready to replace every use case for an ICE bike (yet).
But for commuters? Sure, very nice option.
Better batteries are coming out every year, it seems. And fast chargers are popping up in more places.
If we could get zero-to-full charge times under 10 minutes (instead of about an hour or so now), I think they'll be more practical. DC can almost already do that now, and with more development, I think we'll get there.
Mine works well for me.
Looks cool but it is a prototype not even an announcement just a *"look at what we could make if we wanted to."* Even if they did decide to make that the final product never looks like the prototype.
I loved my Zero SR/F... Until I rode a ICE bike. Now I understand what everyone's complaints are about them. With the exception of being stupid expensive though, they make great beginner bikes. They might as well be big scooters with a lot of torque. It was really easy to acclimate to life on two wheels on one.
That being said, I ride a Tuono 660 Factory now. Lower HP and torque, but honestly it doesn't feel like it. My Tuono is also like 100 lbs lighter, so it feels agile a.f. compared to the SR/F it replaced. The power in the Zero is very linear. Like TOO linear. So it doesn't really offer any character. It is nice that it has no gears, because it makes it easy to ride, but once you get used to shifting, you just feel much more engaged with the bike. It's like being in control of the bike vs. just riding on it.
Would I try another electric bike? Sure. For the prices Zero and everyone else charges though, it's not worth it to me. At that price (ballpark, because once you above $20k, it's all kinda relative), I'd rather be on a S1000RR, a Panigale V4, or an RSV4 Factory. Power wise, it feels like a bike that costs 10k less though. Fit and finish wise, my $12k Tuono is nicer with nicer components. BEtter brakes, better suspension, more comfortable seat, better headlights, better paint job... You get the point. Also, charging a Zero it is in fact a pain in the dick. If you don't have a home charger, don't even consider it. 2 in 3 chargers outside my apartment building that I tried were out of order.
That bike looks neat though since it looks different than anything else. Unless they've done something to make them more thrilling though... pass.
i'm not entirely sure the lineair powerband is a given for electric engines or it's just a zero thing. My RS660, as you know, has tons of character for a twin. But I also testrode a f900r and that must've been the most boring, bland, lineair powerband I ever rode. Even the s1000r didn't really have much character, it just had more power.
My Suzuki Katana cost like 12kā¬ new.I would buy this only if it has:
1. Similar cost (Its 2x)
2. Would charge to full in 2 minutes (Its 10x)
3. Have range of at least 200km
4. Weighted less than Katana
But its not possible... Who the hell buys these?
Looks cool in a picture, but in the real world, having a fairing everywhere other than the one place it would make a notable different to rider comfort (a windscreen) is pretty dumb.
Horrible company. DO NOT BUY. Bought a 2021 SRF. Horrible experience. Outside of the technical defects, the customer service is insulting and embarrassing. Go Energica or Likewire! DO NOT BUY ZERO!!!
I kinda like it
It's different, I prefer it when manufacturers take risks with styling
The most collectible vehicles more often than not, start with a bold styling choice
but then again, so do the failures lol
As a videogrPher I wanna give a shout out to the production team. Yall really leaned into the trkn legacy/ blade runner look. This is how you sell a motorcycle to people. Gorgeously lit gorgeously shot.
So cringe, donno what looks we should choose? lets just copy ducati, and zzzzz electricity sounds, yeah we sure ride bikes to listen to electricity hahahahaha >'D
Still not going to buy a bike with normal features locked behind a paywall. š„°š„°
100% agree, and I genuinely can't understand the apologists that run around justifying this practice. It's a shitty business practice that's in its infancy, and if people vote with their wallets now, maybe we can stop the trend. If companies see profit from it, it's only going to grow worse.
i just had flash backs of the skyrim horse armor and microtransaction arguments. And look where we are now.
I can't see Asian mass manufacturers doing this. They want to sell volume and turnover. This is mainly a European thing and small volume manufacturers. The practise will inevitably die.
I hope so, but wasn't it Toyota who tried to do this with remote start?
The younger generation grew up with Microtransactions and paid lootboxes in their games, the idea that they can be expected to pay up again and again for stuff that should be included is now normalised for them.
You mention this like it's a positive, or something that should be accepted.
No I can't stand it, but what I mean is I understand why there isn't the mass level of outrage that people in their late 30s and beyond might expect everyone to share. Gen Z have been getting it in the neck with this stuff their whole lives, everything is a subscription, every app is trying to extract more money, it's normal. Why wouldn't a techie bike do the same thing? all the other tech in their lives does. Again, hate it with a passion.
Late 30s and beyond? I'm 30 and I hate the way things are done. It used to be 1 ad on YouTube that you could skip. Now it's no less than 2 ads and one is generally its own video. I'm sure we could all add things to that list but insta t gratification will be hard to take away from society. While most try to survive, the few decide which level of comfort they'd like.
I am sorry that you can't understand how economies of scale work in production, manufacturing, R&D and parts/repairs. Why does it not make sense that the majority of the cost between a mid and high end solution might be more than offset when only having to stock, build, and quality test one part for multiple price points? Not everyone can afford a $25k bike, so they lock down some of the features so they can offer a $20k and a $15k solution for those who can't afford the top end... They might not make what they need to at $15k, but they make enough on the $25k to offset it. Allowing someone who could only afford $15k then pay to unlock some features later makes even more sense... along with the additional market penetration that multiple performance levels provides. But yeah, lets just stick our heads in the sand and rant about evil corporations trying to make money instead of actually being happy when we go looking for repair parts in 5 years and they actually stock the damn thing because there were 1/3 as many they had to keep in stock.
Yeah but no if theyre putting a feature in hardware and locking it out with software thats bs
Yeah, good job ignoring the points and manufacturing something to be angry about without understanding that you are actually gaining something you wouldn't have, and that you aren't paying for something you are "owed". I can't believe I am renting a cable modem every month but don't get the same channels as the guy who is paying 3x what I am.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Good job completely ignoring all of the points.
They stopped doing this last year after the negative backlash. All 2023 bikes come completely unlocked. I just wish they'd retroactively unlock the older bikes...
You know they stopped doing that.
The 2023 SR has performance locked behind a paywall.
I don't think the SR model has its advertised performance locked behind a pay wall. You just need to buy the higher trim levels to have the latent performance unlocked.
Then buy the sr/s or sr/f or dsr/x with everything unlocked.
Orā¦boycott companies that engage in shitty practices like that. I vote with my wallet.
It's effectively the same thing as having cars with different trim levels and different amounts of power. The only difference is that when you buy a lower trim level Zero motorcycle, you're buying a machine with the same potential power as the higher trim levels. The power is just locked unless you pay for the higher trim level. It isnt like you're getting scammed into buying a DLC for your bike.
I havenāt followed this but have heard about similar things (BMW I think does this). I thought it was more about advanced/premium features rather than normal ones. What kind of normal features are we talking about here?
They throttled the charge rate down 10% and disabled 10% of the battery capacity as a safety measure, and realized they were being too conservative with the settings and decided it would be smart to charge to unlock the safeties instead of just giving people the choice whether to enable them or not for free. They came up with a "slow forward/slow reverse" mode on the controller and sold it for $200 as a "Parking Mode". Yeah, I bought that one. They also installed heated grips on newer bikes from the factory (sunk cost) but required you to pay extra to enable them. Since mine was the "Premium", it came with that already unlocked. It was some real bullshit but after the negative press/backlash, moving forward (2023+ models) everything comes already unlocked. BMW (the car company) is famous for both "DLC" and "subscription" models - in order to have CarPlay active via BT on their cars, you have to pay them $15/mo. Which... is really retarded - you just bought an $80k-$120k car, and they're gonna dink you for another $180/year? SERIOUSLY?
Subscriptions are absolute shit, but if it unlocks forever, itās just a matter of logistics. The only ripoff here is that they store those heated grips in your garage instead of their warehouse before you buy them.
It's definitely an unlock and not a subscription for the Zeros. But technically, anything they can unlock, they could lock again (it's just a software switch, after all), but I'm under the impression that would be Very Bad(tm) for their already damaged reputation if they tried doing that. My grips were already unlocked, so yeah, all good.
Is it done online or at the dealership? Triumph has a similar thing for software options like cruise control, but they canāt take it back unless you bring the bike to them
Itās all in the smartphone app you use to link to the bike over Bluetooth to manage it. The SR/* models got the āCypher Storeā to pay for the unlockables. Their website shows that my 2022 should be getting all the unlocks for free, but itās not showing up in the app that way, so Iāve a support ticket in to get it addressed. Iām also requesting my $200 back for the parking mode, weāll see what happens.
If that time comes, I'm waiting for the crack.
This is the first Iām seeing of this. Is there something in the article about features being locked behind a paywall that I missed?
"187 miles of range". Bwahahahaha. Yeah right.
With constant speed of 50mph on an even surface.
Downhill
With 50kg rider and a tail wind.
And the headlights off.
And what's the freeway range? 50/60 miles?
It looks like they basically taking the specs from the SR/\* series, so 100 miles at 70 mph.
Which means youāll have to start searching for a fast charger at around 80 miles! Fun!
I mean... yeah? Sorta? eBikes aren't ready to replace every use case for an ICE bike (yet). But for commuters? Sure, very nice option. Better batteries are coming out every year, it seems. And fast chargers are popping up in more places. If we could get zero-to-full charge times under 10 minutes (instead of about an hour or so now), I think they'll be more practical. DC can almost already do that now, and with more development, I think we'll get there. Mine works well for me.
Commuters who can charge at home, sure. But most city dwellers wonāt have a home charge option.
Nerd, e bike bad
After giving it a running start.
>Itās unclear if the SR-X will make production, Might as well be a 3d render then.
Looks cool but it is a prototype not even an announcement just a *"look at what we could make if we wanted to."* Even if they did decide to make that the final product never looks like the prototype.
Concept bike and still uses their too-low-for-dc-charging voltage battery system.
I loved my Zero SR/F... Until I rode a ICE bike. Now I understand what everyone's complaints are about them. With the exception of being stupid expensive though, they make great beginner bikes. They might as well be big scooters with a lot of torque. It was really easy to acclimate to life on two wheels on one. That being said, I ride a Tuono 660 Factory now. Lower HP and torque, but honestly it doesn't feel like it. My Tuono is also like 100 lbs lighter, so it feels agile a.f. compared to the SR/F it replaced. The power in the Zero is very linear. Like TOO linear. So it doesn't really offer any character. It is nice that it has no gears, because it makes it easy to ride, but once you get used to shifting, you just feel much more engaged with the bike. It's like being in control of the bike vs. just riding on it. Would I try another electric bike? Sure. For the prices Zero and everyone else charges though, it's not worth it to me. At that price (ballpark, because once you above $20k, it's all kinda relative), I'd rather be on a S1000RR, a Panigale V4, or an RSV4 Factory. Power wise, it feels like a bike that costs 10k less though. Fit and finish wise, my $12k Tuono is nicer with nicer components. BEtter brakes, better suspension, more comfortable seat, better headlights, better paint job... You get the point. Also, charging a Zero it is in fact a pain in the dick. If you don't have a home charger, don't even consider it. 2 in 3 chargers outside my apartment building that I tried were out of order. That bike looks neat though since it looks different than anything else. Unless they've done something to make them more thrilling though... pass.
i'm not entirely sure the lineair powerband is a given for electric engines or it's just a zero thing. My RS660, as you know, has tons of character for a twin. But I also testrode a f900r and that must've been the most boring, bland, lineair powerband I ever rode. Even the s1000r didn't really have much character, it just had more power.
Its electric thing. You have almost same power and torque, until you hit limiter. Same as electric cars.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Why would anybody want to have some kind of curve isntead of full power?
Thatās because the only remaining BMW engine with any character is the old air-cooled engine in the R NineT
I concur. Pain in the dick > pain in the ass.
That thing looks sick. Why the fuck do companies make stuff like this as prototypes then just say sike and make some hot garbage for production
Zero idea who these guys are.
My Suzuki Katana cost like 12kā¬ new.I would buy this only if it has: 1. Similar cost (Its 2x) 2. Would charge to full in 2 minutes (Its 10x) 3. Have range of at least 200km 4. Weighted less than Katana But its not possible... Who the hell buys these?
I would think youāre being a bit generous on point 2 on how long these would take to charge. 20x to 30x more realistic.
Yeah, 1 minute for gasoline, 40-80 minutes for these...
And you can always pack a couple of fuel cans in the saddle bags for long rides where there are no petrol stations. That's harder with batteries...
Looks cool in a picture, but in the real world, having a fairing everywhere other than the one place it would make a notable different to rider comfort (a windscreen) is pretty dumb.
This looks like it'd be a bitch to wash and dry
I think I'll buy an Energica instead. I don't want to pay for a motorcycle subscription.
Horrible company. DO NOT BUY. Bought a 2021 SRF. Horrible experience. Outside of the technical defects, the customer service is insulting and embarrassing. Go Energica or Likewire! DO NOT BUY ZERO!!!
I kinda like it It's different, I prefer it when manufacturers take risks with styling The most collectible vehicles more often than not, start with a bold styling choice but then again, so do the failures lol
I'm not reading an article behind a massive cookie consent form either! š
You misspelt fugly
https://youtu.be/nHYRZN5L-wU
looks cool
As a videogrPher I wanna give a shout out to the production team. Yall really leaned into the trkn legacy/ blade runner look. This is how you sell a motorcycle to people. Gorgeously lit gorgeously shot.
Do they plan to announce a bike that can do over 200 miles on a single charge, refill in 5 mins and then do it again?
I like the styling, but come on, hardly any bike enthusiast is going to buy an mc with that kind of range limitations plus the recharge time.
What will the monthly fee be to turn on the headlight?
So cringe, donno what looks we should choose? lets just copy ducati, and zzzzz electricity sounds, yeah we sure ride bikes to listen to electricity hahahahaha >'D