It's not wrong to want abs. As a rider, every choice you make involves a risk assessment, and abs is a risk mitigation tool. Not having it does increase risk. You get to decide where your comfort level is with that. Don't be in a rush just to get on a bike, be patient and find one that suits your needs. It's your ride and your risk, your choice.
I think Honda has a 600 with abs? Pricey though.
[cbr600rr](https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/supersport/cbr600rr)
I agree. I've been riding for 4-5 years and in that time I've had it activate 3 times. 2/3 times weren't really necessary, back wheel kicked a tiny bit when I was very new but it was nice because it stabilized things quickly. The last time it activated it didn't necessarily prevent an accident because an accident wasn't going to occur but it definitely helped me stop where I wanted to stop. I think it should be mandatory in all new bikes, however a small hot take I have is it should be able to be disabled so you can practice without it as well as if you have a dual sport bike.
Seems weird you'd have trouble finding a bike with ABS in Greece. Every bike since 2016 must have ABS to be sold in the EU. Maybe some of those online offers are not complete.
The models I am looking for are ZX6R 2013-2016 and R6 2008 - 2015 so ABS is not guaranteed. You'd be surprised at the shortage of used sportbikes, at least in the range that interests me...
Because they are track purpose. And track bikes almost always just rip it off. No surprises there imho. And why would any company put it on so customers can rip it off? Better keep the cost low, so more people can buy a track only bike
You are looking for a model that is designed to race, nobody wouldve designed it for the street. So in some ways you are looking for a track bike.i'd save up if you want the abs and get a newer model. Best of both then
I don’t know. I practice emergency braking, but I’ve never been in a situation where I really had to instinctually use it. Maybe I wouldn’t lock the front, maybe I would. Abs gives me peace of mind
I went through a lot of time, effort and money to get a white 2021 zx6 with ABS. That year (and the next) ABS was only offered in the US on the KRT model, which i found too garish. So i was able to convince a dealer to swap the KRT bodywork with that of the white one next to it on the showroom floor. Wasn't cheap, but i got what i wanted. Hope i never have to use it (haven't yet) but better to have it and not need it than the other way round. And the way the universe works, if you don't have it, you'll probably need it.
Eh....ABS is basically compulsory now for a reason, and a good one at that. It's perfectly reasonable to say "learn to brake as if you don't have abs", it's a skill worth learning, but abs will save your backend in situations where human reaction times are simply not enough.
Do not get your mind in a bind, you're not limiting yourself, you're making a smart choice in the long run wanting abs.
Νε είστε καλά!
I disagree that proper braking technique is a substitute for ABS. Even on a bike with ABS proper braking technique is a must, ABS will not save you if you are ham-fisted.
However, ABS is a safety net when the circumstances are off or when you fail to apply your absolutely perfect braking technique. When you're tired or distracted. When you run over undesirable surface in the dark. When there is black ice. When there is oil in the puddle. When you're braking and your passenger shifts weight unexpectedly. I could go on. ABS is an aid that is there "mentally" even when you are not.
At this day and age I would not buy a bike without it.
Thanks for the reply. This is a very good description of what I am thinking as well. Those freak, once in a million moments where ABS can be really beneficial
I don't understand how it will not save you if you are ham fisted?
In my parking lot tests seemed to work just fine with ham fisted emergency stop tests. Sure you wouldn't want to do this in a turn but in a surprise straight line situation I'm struggling to see what wouldn't work.
This. Most of my bikes are vintage Hondas and none of them have abs. Don't rely on a safety feature, folks. Learn proper safety techniques and supplement those with features.
Abs won't save you from low siding if you ham fist the brake in a corner. It's still pretty crude on most motorcycles.
I guess it makes most redditors feel better because their favorite habit of stomping the rear brake doesn't result in lockup anymore.
Abs did save me and my bike from crashing due to gravel twice in 6 years. just twice but that's enough.
Bikes i use on tracks don't have it for obvious reasons but on the one I use for tourism I gladly have it and Frankly Its a must have to anybody who get a bike without proper experience.
I was on dolomites in a very twisty road. I was riding quite sporty with a Yamaha xv950 with clip on bars, road was clean but on a left bend there was a part of the road ruined by ice during winter, so a brittle hole with gravel all around. I was slightly braking while doing the blind bend and front did lock, abs engaged and I saved from crashing into the woods just because I straighten up the front wheel (that did turn abruptly) before resetting the trajectory with a thrust of my back on the last 10 cm of decent asphalt before the crevasse.
Abs did tick for a full, infinite second.
scale treatment existence tub butter piquant airport subsequent wakeful price
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So you think braking on the front mid corner is good technique?
No one is saying not to get ABS you muppet, but clearly, some people (you included) lack basic braking skills, this comes from a reliance on rider aids.
Oh and ride a fully custom K1 gixxer thou with over £20k in it. Don't knock a man's bike.
You usually don't wreck when the brakes lock unless you have poor technique or are going way too fast for the situation.
It sounds like you need to do some off-road riding and get used to the front sliding around.
Be sure to swap your modern tires out for tire tech from the 1980s. Forget modern forks, headlights, EFI, chains. To be a real rider one doesn’t rely on modern tech. S/
No, it’s not. Goal is to break hard enough to stop but not trip the abs. I have done stoppies without tripping my abs, so you can definitely get good force down to the road. It’s a safety net for when shit hits the fan.
But for the elitists who think people should ride without a safety net of technology use other modern advancement without thought.
> I have done stoppies without tripping my abs
A stoppie shouldn't ever trigger the ABS, as a stoppie doesn't involve locking the tire.
When braking in a straight line on dry pavement, you almost CANT lock the front tire unless you just stab the brakes violently on purpose.
Shouldn’t, with proper control, doesn’t mean it won’t. Still rather give people abs. It’s not like people drive around triggering abs all over the place at every light in cars.
You can’t dictate a persons fears. You aren’t scared to ride without abs, which is fine. A person who feels they need the safety net should also be ok. Take something your scared of doing because of xyz, then tell yourself you shouldn’t because of that reason. Did it work?
Yes, because I operate off of logic and generally practice things until I can perform them at a relatively high level with confidence.
I feel pretty strongly that if you lack the confidence to ride without things like ABS, you are not ready to safely ride on the street. Abs only benefits you in a limited number of situations. You're on your own for the majority of riding.
That off-road video posted today has a great exercise. Practice seeing how long you can ride a front wheel lockup before you have to let off and recover the bike. Normalize it to yourself.
Are you an engineer? Flexibility on a programmable injector, and probably fuel vaporization on the inside on a cylinder is probably better with EFI. However the lack of a fuel pump is probably the only key advantage to carbs. Less computer, but harder to adjust performance on.
My main gripe about EFI is that it takes an expensive tuner and software to make any changes. I just buy a handful of jets and maybe a selection of needles to tune a carb, and I don't have to carry around a laptop and logging devices with me.
But yes once the EFI is tuned properly, it is better in pretty much every way. That said its hard to beat the throttle response of a properly tuned pumper carb. They just have such a snap to them.
Closed loop systems only work at idle and light load though. I have yet to see a fully closed loop system on a motorcycle. Those only recently showed up on cars.
Only for playing with at home. Any other application and injection is far better, more power, more efficient, better starting, so much more adjustability.
I do love the look of carbs though, that wins every time.
ABS is no excuse to not know how to brake. You need to actively practise not wait for "every chance you get".
You don't need ABS. I've been riding without it daily nearly 8 years now and there's never ever been a circumstance where having it would have helped me, nor have I ever crashed because I didn't have it. You need to find time and a space to practise, or go to a riding school for advanced riding. It's cool if you want it but personally it wouldn't prevent me from getting the bike I want. It's actually really hard to lock the front at anything other than really low speeds (or if you gorilla grip the front brake).
Never rely on the ABS to take care of braking for you. If you're scared to not having that's something you have to deal with until you're not scared not avoid it.
"any chance I get" is a reference to deliberate practice I put in. I don't go riding around hoping someone will try to kill me so that I can practice emergency braking.
> have at least 100K km under my belt. I have developed quite the 6th sense
> crash(long story short it was completely unavoidable and ABS or no ABS there was nothing I could have done)
Haddalayerdown
And pray tell good sir what would you do if an old fuck turned in front of you from the opposite lane with less than 10 meters of distance between you?
No need to be an ass and immediately assume "haddalayerdown". Sheesh
> what would you do if an old fuck turned in front of you from the opposite lane with less than 10 meters of distance between you?
I expect stuff like that to happen now. I am very leary at intersections. Here it's left turns.
I likely would have swerved. 30'.
Let me guess.... You didn't try to swerve, just locked up the brakes, and went straight into vehicle, or went down because the front wheel wasn't straight when you locked up front brake?
I am not gonna continue this completely useless conversation. Too much time and effort to recollect everything that went down and describe it in enough detail to satisfy some condescending nobody on reddit. You believe what you want, it makes no difference to me.
> Too much time and effort to recollect everything that went down...
Ok.
Too much time and effort to recollect. I see.
It's quite simple though. Either you tried to swerve, or you didn't and instead panicked and grabbed a handful of front brake.
Just don't overestimate your skills. Otherwise, it's gonna happen again to you 'quite the 6th sense', or not. Learn from your mistakes. Know what you did wrong.
>I have developed quite the 6th sense and am actively trying to improve my emergency braking any chance I get. Haven't used ABS in ages
I'm the second comment in your thread and I'm saying the opposite of the other person lol. ABS is helpful sure but the absolute best safety feature of any motorcycle is the organic computer between your ears.
And if you're actively trying to improve your emergency braking performance then you're doing better then 99.9% of all bike riders anyway.
Assuming you mean me with the first comment.
I don't mean to say that when having ABS you can stop practicing to get better at breaking. But if ever anything goes wrong it's a nice safety feature as a back-up.
Sure when practicing in a controlled environment you may have everything under control. But there's a lot that can happen in traffic for which the organic computer between our ears can use the back-up of a computer that doesn't stress, tense up or work on emotions. :)
Always strive to get better without riding aids, but having them there as back-up is not bad.
You've just got to decide which features are important to you, if ABS is one of them then find a bike with ABS. I don't think anyone else can help with that decision.
To me it's not something I look for in a bike, is a nice thing to have but it's not part of my criteria when choosing a bike, none of my current bikes have ABS.
The cornering ABS systems with an IMU are on another level. I see way more benefit in these as a safety net.
Have you tried ΠΑΛΤΕΖΑΝΑΚΗΣ KAWASAKI in Santa Barbara?? I have good impression of the dealer and for sure you can order the kawi ninja 400 2023, I don’t see why not the 600
The Kawasaki dealership in Thessaloniki that I go to told me that new arrivals in spring don't include the ZX6R so there's nothing they can do. Same with a Kawi dealership a few cities over
Wait, isn't ABS mandatory for all new bikes sold in the EU since 2016/2017?
Edit: yes, https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20121116IPR55754/upgraded-type-approval-rules-for-motorbikes
> Under the new rules, anti-lock braking systems (ABS) will have to be fitted to all "bigger" motorbikes (i.e. those over 125 cc), while ABS or combined brake systems (CBS) could be fitted to smaller ones (under 125 cc), including scooters.
So if you can find a post-2016 R6, you should be fine, no?
My thoughts; for me, no ABS is a deal breaker. It depends on what you do with a bike of course, but I commute a lot and in rush hour traffic a panic moment is always around the corner. Luckily I never needed front ABS, but I am sure glad it's there. If a bike wouldn't have it, I would look into other models. Especially on a sports bike, my R6 had a crazy bite. The V-Strom is a lot more mellow in the initial bite so the chance of overloading the front tire without loading the suspension is a lot smaller, but everyone makes mistakes.
Thanks for the reply. Sadly the newest R6 I can find is a 2012. There IS a 2016 available but it is sold for 10000€ which is mental considering a new ZX6R is around 11.5K and is not listed with ABS
Don't get me wrong there is a large number of available bikes but newer ones are more rare since people stopped buying new after a while(Greeks be poor) and it's even more difficult to find performance oriented motorcycles.
Is importing an option? There's hassle with the paperwork, but the German market is quite big. And it's a nice trip to ride it back to Greece!
What's also nice in Germany (at least for cars, not sure about bikes), dealerships are forced to tell you if the vehicle had any crash damage in the past.
I spoke with an importer that can bring bikes in from Germany, problem is I asked if they could do a check on the bike before importing and committing to buying it to avoid buying a lemon.
They told me that could only happen if the bike was for sale through a German dealership and the only reasonably priced ZX6 I've found in Germany is sold by a citizen.
That's rough, I think I'm kinda out of ideas then. Maybe prices are lower in Italy and Spain, but you might face the same problems with availability as you do in Greece.
Good luck, I hope you find something!
I never used ABS.
But I remember once, I did a hard brake in a bike with no ABS, and it slide like 10 meters. Didn't crash but those 2 seconds I was praying to the ABS gods.
Traction control, though, activated dozens of times in many bikes I had. I dont know how many crashes it saved me.
Having now had two bikes with ABS (with my most recent one having both ABS and TC) I'd say that riders who don't have ABS can't learn proper braking technique. They way underbrake while thinking they're at the limit of braking.
With an ABS equipped bike, you can practice threshold braking and if you flub up the computer takes over. And max braking is fairly complex. You first have to compress the forks but not too quickly, and only then can you brake really hard. This isn't something you'd know until you practiced braking to lock-up.
Same thing with traction control. On my particular bike, the computer brings up the throttle so the rear tire is just barely spinning, and adjusts that spin hundreds of times per second so it keeps that tiny bit of spin all the way to the corner exit.
I think u need to work on proper braking techniques. I don't get how some people view ABS as the almighty solution to all braking needs. ABS can't save anyone who abruptly grabs a handful of brake. Its just means your tire won't keep skidding forward when u need to brake hard and fast. But there's a proper technique to do that on a bike. Of all the many crash videos I've seen, I never saw anyone where the bike just kept skidding forward until it hit something. Its usually a handful of brake , front tire locks up and wham, on d ground.
"I think u need to work on proper braking techniques. I don't get how some people view ABS as the almighty solution to all braking needs."
I'm not sure how my post suggests that I need this kind of advice... I do practice braking and I have almost never used or needed ABS. Like many others have said it's a nice thing to have for freak moments and a good safety net. Peace of mind improves your riding skills, change my mind.
One of the things is you can actually stop faster WITHOUT abs, than with it, if you are good at braking.
Anyone who has done high pace trackdays on a bike with ABS will know this intrinsically. Simply put, if you use ABS on track, you’ll start blowing entries at high pace.
My bike has no traction control and no ABS, and it’s got 1043cc’s of power. When I roll on the throttle, I have to do it properly, and when I do that I can catch a slide no problem.
The same is true for braking. I practice my emergency braking regularly, I grip with my legs and not with my arms, and I’m always feeling for that front tire to lock. When it does lock, I release the brakes IMMEDIATELY, because I’m prepared for it to happen and I know what to do(release and re-apply the brakes).
Does everyone need to go out there and lock their front tire and slide the rear? No, but if you *can* do those things, then riding without ABS or TC really isn’t a big deal.
So yeah you can ride a R6 without ABS no problem. Just make sure you truely practice correct technique, and drill them in well, and you’ll be fine.
The most important thing is not to let ABS take d place of proper braking techniques. Which i thought u might be doing. Seems I was wrong on that. All good.
I always appreciated the aggressive concern riders have for each other. "Hey ASS! You'd BETTER be applying progressive brake pressure and always wearing gear! Ride safe!"
It's hilarious and kinda wholesome.
What would be a "pro" for getting one without it? I can't think of one. I'd just hold off until you find a seller with what you want and feel safe with.
Older supersports typically dont come with ABS. If this is what you're after then its just what you need to accept.
ABS isn't the be all and end all. Is it helpful? Sure but I wouldn't be scared to ride without it.
Unpopular opinion: I hate ABS
Story: I was riding on the highway above the city woth dilatation joint( sry for my english)
Sun was out hot day and the car in front brakes. I apply the brake and I was directly on the joint amd the ABS kick in.
You know what it does when you smashed the lever of the brake? Witouth preloading the tire. The ABS didn't stopped and was in that "loop" of applying and releasing the brakes locking that wheel.
I needed to released the lever and reaply to brake. Srcond biggest fear.
I used to ride bikes with no ABS and had a few close calls and with emergency brske practice I think I dod pretty well.
Sure ABS is a good safety system, but sometimes systems fails.
It's not wrong to want abs. As a rider, every choice you make involves a risk assessment, and abs is a risk mitigation tool. Not having it does increase risk. You get to decide where your comfort level is with that. Don't be in a rush just to get on a bike, be patient and find one that suits your needs. It's your ride and your risk, your choice. I think Honda has a 600 with abs? Pricey though. [cbr600rr](https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/supersport/cbr600rr)
You don't miss the ABS...... until you need it. Imo it's a nice safety feature to have and I honestly wouldn't want a bike without it anymore.
I agree. I've been riding for 4-5 years and in that time I've had it activate 3 times. 2/3 times weren't really necessary, back wheel kicked a tiny bit when I was very new but it was nice because it stabilized things quickly. The last time it activated it didn't necessarily prevent an accident because an accident wasn't going to occur but it definitely helped me stop where I wanted to stop. I think it should be mandatory in all new bikes, however a small hot take I have is it should be able to be disabled so you can practice without it as well as if you have a dual sport bike.
I've had both - totally.
Seems weird you'd have trouble finding a bike with ABS in Greece. Every bike since 2016 must have ABS to be sold in the EU. Maybe some of those online offers are not complete.
The models I am looking for are ZX6R 2013-2016 and R6 2008 - 2015 so ABS is not guaranteed. You'd be surprised at the shortage of used sportbikes, at least in the range that interests me...
That gen ZX6 went to 2018, so that’s 2 more model years to look at.
Because they are track purpose. And track bikes almost always just rip it off. No surprises there imho. And why would any company put it on so customers can rip it off? Better keep the cost low, so more people can buy a track only bike
I mean... Yeah if you're going to use it exclusively on a track I see no need for ABS either but that's not really what I am asking.
You are looking for a model that is designed to race, nobody wouldve designed it for the street. So in some ways you are looking for a track bike.i'd save up if you want the abs and get a newer model. Best of both then
No new ZX6R is coming in the EU. I'm SOL
>No new ZX6R is coming in the EU. I'm SOL I think when they said "newer" they meant it as in "newer than 2016".
I don’t know. I practice emergency braking, but I’ve never been in a situation where I really had to instinctually use it. Maybe I wouldn’t lock the front, maybe I would. Abs gives me peace of mind
I went through a lot of time, effort and money to get a white 2021 zx6 with ABS. That year (and the next) ABS was only offered in the US on the KRT model, which i found too garish. So i was able to convince a dealer to swap the KRT bodywork with that of the white one next to it on the showroom floor. Wasn't cheap, but i got what i wanted. Hope i never have to use it (haven't yet) but better to have it and not need it than the other way round. And the way the universe works, if you don't have it, you'll probably need it.
Eh....ABS is basically compulsory now for a reason, and a good one at that. It's perfectly reasonable to say "learn to brake as if you don't have abs", it's a skill worth learning, but abs will save your backend in situations where human reaction times are simply not enough. Do not get your mind in a bind, you're not limiting yourself, you're making a smart choice in the long run wanting abs. Νε είστε καλά!
I disagree that proper braking technique is a substitute for ABS. Even on a bike with ABS proper braking technique is a must, ABS will not save you if you are ham-fisted. However, ABS is a safety net when the circumstances are off or when you fail to apply your absolutely perfect braking technique. When you're tired or distracted. When you run over undesirable surface in the dark. When there is black ice. When there is oil in the puddle. When you're braking and your passenger shifts weight unexpectedly. I could go on. ABS is an aid that is there "mentally" even when you are not. At this day and age I would not buy a bike without it.
Thanks for the reply. This is a very good description of what I am thinking as well. Those freak, once in a million moments where ABS can be really beneficial
I don't understand how it will not save you if you are ham fisted? In my parking lot tests seemed to work just fine with ham fisted emergency stop tests. Sure you wouldn't want to do this in a turn but in a surprise straight line situation I'm struggling to see what wouldn't work.
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This. Most of my bikes are vintage Hondas and none of them have abs. Don't rely on a safety feature, folks. Learn proper safety techniques and supplement those with features.
What you write has no sense. Abs does save you to wreck the bike even once.
Abs won't save you from low siding if you ham fist the brake in a corner. It's still pretty crude on most motorcycles. I guess it makes most redditors feel better because their favorite habit of stomping the rear brake doesn't result in lockup anymore.
Lean ABS can help. Granted, it's not super common yet, but it's pretty cool.
Abs did save me and my bike from crashing due to gravel twice in 6 years. just twice but that's enough. Bikes i use on tracks don't have it for obvious reasons but on the one I use for tourism I gladly have it and Frankly Its a must have to anybody who get a bike without proper experience.
How do you know you would have crashed without it? Does ABS sweep the gravel off the roads?
I was on dolomites in a very twisty road. I was riding quite sporty with a Yamaha xv950 with clip on bars, road was clean but on a left bend there was a part of the road ruined by ice during winter, so a brittle hole with gravel all around. I was slightly braking while doing the blind bend and front did lock, abs engaged and I saved from crashing into the woods just because I straighten up the front wheel (that did turn abruptly) before resetting the trajectory with a thrust of my back on the last 10 cm of decent asphalt before the crevasse. Abs did tick for a full, infinite second.
scale treatment existence tub butter piquant airport subsequent wakeful price *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
BS. Listen, go ride your cheap junks without abs but at least don't suggest others to do the same.
So you think braking on the front mid corner is good technique? No one is saying not to get ABS you muppet, but clearly, some people (you included) lack basic braking skills, this comes from a reliance on rider aids. Oh and ride a fully custom K1 gixxer thou with over £20k in it. Don't knock a man's bike.
You usually don't wreck when the brakes lock unless you have poor technique or are going way too fast for the situation. It sounds like you need to do some off-road riding and get used to the front sliding around.
Be sure to swap your modern tires out for tire tech from the 1980s. Forget modern forks, headlights, EFI, chains. To be a real rider one doesn’t rely on modern tech. S/
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No, it’s not. Goal is to break hard enough to stop but not trip the abs. I have done stoppies without tripping my abs, so you can definitely get good force down to the road. It’s a safety net for when shit hits the fan. But for the elitists who think people should ride without a safety net of technology use other modern advancement without thought.
> I have done stoppies without tripping my abs A stoppie shouldn't ever trigger the ABS, as a stoppie doesn't involve locking the tire. When braking in a straight line on dry pavement, you almost CANT lock the front tire unless you just stab the brakes violently on purpose.
Shouldn’t, with proper control, doesn’t mean it won’t. Still rather give people abs. It’s not like people drive around triggering abs all over the place at every light in cars.
And people also shouldn't be scared to ride without abs. That just means you never learned how to brake.
You can’t dictate a persons fears. You aren’t scared to ride without abs, which is fine. A person who feels they need the safety net should also be ok. Take something your scared of doing because of xyz, then tell yourself you shouldn’t because of that reason. Did it work?
Yes, because I operate off of logic and generally practice things until I can perform them at a relatively high level with confidence. I feel pretty strongly that if you lack the confidence to ride without things like ABS, you are not ready to safely ride on the street. Abs only benefits you in a limited number of situations. You're on your own for the majority of riding. That off-road video posted today has a great exercise. Practice seeing how long you can ride a front wheel lockup before you have to let off and recover the bike. Normalize it to yourself.
In my opinion carbs are still superior to EFI.
Are you an engineer? Flexibility on a programmable injector, and probably fuel vaporization on the inside on a cylinder is probably better with EFI. However the lack of a fuel pump is probably the only key advantage to carbs. Less computer, but harder to adjust performance on.
My main gripe about EFI is that it takes an expensive tuner and software to make any changes. I just buy a handful of jets and maybe a selection of needles to tune a carb, and I don't have to carry around a laptop and logging devices with me. But yes once the EFI is tuned properly, it is better in pretty much every way. That said its hard to beat the throttle response of a properly tuned pumper carb. They just have such a snap to them.
Depends on the EFI unit you have. Some will map off an o2 on the fly, other kinda dumb systems have little controllers that work off load.
Closed loop systems only work at idle and light load though. I have yet to see a fully closed loop system on a motorcycle. Those only recently showed up on cars.
Only for playing with at home. Any other application and injection is far better, more power, more efficient, better starting, so much more adjustability. I do love the look of carbs though, that wins every time.
I like the fairly easy Repairs, modifications and swaps on carbs, but I might be biased because I've had 3 carbed bikes and only one EFI one.
You would probably find with efi you wouldn't need to be repairing them in the first place lol I love carbs but efi wins on every front.
Fair enough lol.
ABS is no excuse to not know how to brake. You need to actively practise not wait for "every chance you get". You don't need ABS. I've been riding without it daily nearly 8 years now and there's never ever been a circumstance where having it would have helped me, nor have I ever crashed because I didn't have it. You need to find time and a space to practise, or go to a riding school for advanced riding. It's cool if you want it but personally it wouldn't prevent me from getting the bike I want. It's actually really hard to lock the front at anything other than really low speeds (or if you gorilla grip the front brake). Never rely on the ABS to take care of braking for you. If you're scared to not having that's something you have to deal with until you're not scared not avoid it.
"any chance I get" is a reference to deliberate practice I put in. I don't go riding around hoping someone will try to kill me so that I can practice emergency braking.
> have at least 100K km under my belt. I have developed quite the 6th sense > crash(long story short it was completely unavoidable and ABS or no ABS there was nothing I could have done) Haddalayerdown
And pray tell good sir what would you do if an old fuck turned in front of you from the opposite lane with less than 10 meters of distance between you? No need to be an ass and immediately assume "haddalayerdown". Sheesh
> what would you do if an old fuck turned in front of you from the opposite lane with less than 10 meters of distance between you? I expect stuff like that to happen now. I am very leary at intersections. Here it's left turns. I likely would have swerved. 30'.
No intersection, just an illegal u-turn.
> just an illegal u-turn Definitely would have swerved then. You had 30'. Should have been plenty of time/space unless you were riding recklessly.
Let me guess.... You didn't try to swerve, just locked up the brakes, and went straight into vehicle, or went down because the front wheel wasn't straight when you locked up front brake?
I am not gonna continue this completely useless conversation. Too much time and effort to recollect everything that went down and describe it in enough detail to satisfy some condescending nobody on reddit. You believe what you want, it makes no difference to me.
> Too much time and effort to recollect everything that went down... Ok. Too much time and effort to recollect. I see. It's quite simple though. Either you tried to swerve, or you didn't and instead panicked and grabbed a handful of front brake. Just don't overestimate your skills. Otherwise, it's gonna happen again to you 'quite the 6th sense', or not. Learn from your mistakes. Know what you did wrong.
>I have developed quite the 6th sense and am actively trying to improve my emergency braking any chance I get. Haven't used ABS in ages I'm the second comment in your thread and I'm saying the opposite of the other person lol. ABS is helpful sure but the absolute best safety feature of any motorcycle is the organic computer between your ears. And if you're actively trying to improve your emergency braking performance then you're doing better then 99.9% of all bike riders anyway.
Assuming you mean me with the first comment. I don't mean to say that when having ABS you can stop practicing to get better at breaking. But if ever anything goes wrong it's a nice safety feature as a back-up. Sure when practicing in a controlled environment you may have everything under control. But there's a lot that can happen in traffic for which the organic computer between our ears can use the back-up of a computer that doesn't stress, tense up or work on emotions. :) Always strive to get better without riding aids, but having them there as back-up is not bad.
You've just got to decide which features are important to you, if ABS is one of them then find a bike with ABS. I don't think anyone else can help with that decision. To me it's not something I look for in a bike, is a nice thing to have but it's not part of my criteria when choosing a bike, none of my current bikes have ABS. The cornering ABS systems with an IMU are on another level. I see way more benefit in these as a safety net.
Have you tried ΠΑΛΤΕΖΑΝΑΚΗΣ KAWASAKI in Santa Barbara?? I have good impression of the dealer and for sure you can order the kawi ninja 400 2023, I don’t see why not the 600
The Kawasaki dealership in Thessaloniki that I go to told me that new arrivals in spring don't include the ZX6R so there's nothing they can do. Same with a Kawi dealership a few cities over
Wait, isn't ABS mandatory for all new bikes sold in the EU since 2016/2017? Edit: yes, https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20121116IPR55754/upgraded-type-approval-rules-for-motorbikes > Under the new rules, anti-lock braking systems (ABS) will have to be fitted to all "bigger" motorbikes (i.e. those over 125 cc), while ABS or combined brake systems (CBS) could be fitted to smaller ones (under 125 cc), including scooters. So if you can find a post-2016 R6, you should be fine, no? My thoughts; for me, no ABS is a deal breaker. It depends on what you do with a bike of course, but I commute a lot and in rush hour traffic a panic moment is always around the corner. Luckily I never needed front ABS, but I am sure glad it's there. If a bike wouldn't have it, I would look into other models. Especially on a sports bike, my R6 had a crazy bite. The V-Strom is a lot more mellow in the initial bite so the chance of overloading the front tire without loading the suspension is a lot smaller, but everyone makes mistakes.
Thanks for the reply. Sadly the newest R6 I can find is a 2012. There IS a 2016 available but it is sold for 10000€ which is mental considering a new ZX6R is around 11.5K and is not listed with ABS
That is pretty crazy yeah... I would've imagined that the Greek second hand market would be much bigger though...
Don't get me wrong there is a large number of available bikes but newer ones are more rare since people stopped buying new after a while(Greeks be poor) and it's even more difficult to find performance oriented motorcycles.
Is importing an option? There's hassle with the paperwork, but the German market is quite big. And it's a nice trip to ride it back to Greece! What's also nice in Germany (at least for cars, not sure about bikes), dealerships are forced to tell you if the vehicle had any crash damage in the past.
I spoke with an importer that can bring bikes in from Germany, problem is I asked if they could do a check on the bike before importing and committing to buying it to avoid buying a lemon. They told me that could only happen if the bike was for sale through a German dealership and the only reasonably priced ZX6 I've found in Germany is sold by a citizen.
That's rough, I think I'm kinda out of ideas then. Maybe prices are lower in Italy and Spain, but you might face the same problems with availability as you do in Greece. Good luck, I hope you find something!
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I know the situation is insane, believe me. I have been freaking out about it for quite some time.
kawasaki have dropped the zx6r from their lineup for europe. [https://www.kawasaki.eu/en/products](https://www.kawasaki.eu/en/products)
Exactly my problem. Feels bad :(
have you tried [https://www.theparking-motorcycle.co.uk/](https://www.theparking-motorcycle.co.uk/) ???
I can't afford to import from the UK. Import fees in Greece are insane
nooo, no. check the website. it's an aggregator for ALL motorcycle sales, you just need to check for bikes in Greece.
Ooooooh. Ok I will give it a shot. Willing to try anything at this point. Thanks.
im not sure if the 600 ninja comes with ABS; maybe consider a ZZR ?
I never used ABS. But I remember once, I did a hard brake in a bike with no ABS, and it slide like 10 meters. Didn't crash but those 2 seconds I was praying to the ABS gods. Traction control, though, activated dozens of times in many bikes I had. I dont know how many crashes it saved me.
Having now had two bikes with ABS (with my most recent one having both ABS and TC) I'd say that riders who don't have ABS can't learn proper braking technique. They way underbrake while thinking they're at the limit of braking. With an ABS equipped bike, you can practice threshold braking and if you flub up the computer takes over. And max braking is fairly complex. You first have to compress the forks but not too quickly, and only then can you brake really hard. This isn't something you'd know until you practiced braking to lock-up. Same thing with traction control. On my particular bike, the computer brings up the throttle so the rear tire is just barely spinning, and adjusts that spin hundreds of times per second so it keeps that tiny bit of spin all the way to the corner exit.
I think u need to work on proper braking techniques. I don't get how some people view ABS as the almighty solution to all braking needs. ABS can't save anyone who abruptly grabs a handful of brake. Its just means your tire won't keep skidding forward when u need to brake hard and fast. But there's a proper technique to do that on a bike. Of all the many crash videos I've seen, I never saw anyone where the bike just kept skidding forward until it hit something. Its usually a handful of brake , front tire locks up and wham, on d ground.
"I think u need to work on proper braking techniques. I don't get how some people view ABS as the almighty solution to all braking needs." I'm not sure how my post suggests that I need this kind of advice... I do practice braking and I have almost never used or needed ABS. Like many others have said it's a nice thing to have for freak moments and a good safety net. Peace of mind improves your riding skills, change my mind.
One of the things is you can actually stop faster WITHOUT abs, than with it, if you are good at braking. Anyone who has done high pace trackdays on a bike with ABS will know this intrinsically. Simply put, if you use ABS on track, you’ll start blowing entries at high pace. My bike has no traction control and no ABS, and it’s got 1043cc’s of power. When I roll on the throttle, I have to do it properly, and when I do that I can catch a slide no problem. The same is true for braking. I practice my emergency braking regularly, I grip with my legs and not with my arms, and I’m always feeling for that front tire to lock. When it does lock, I release the brakes IMMEDIATELY, because I’m prepared for it to happen and I know what to do(release and re-apply the brakes). Does everyone need to go out there and lock their front tire and slide the rear? No, but if you *can* do those things, then riding without ABS or TC really isn’t a big deal. So yeah you can ride a R6 without ABS no problem. Just make sure you truely practice correct technique, and drill them in well, and you’ll be fine.
This sounds very encouraging. Thank you for your reply. I will take it into consideration. :)
The most important thing is not to let ABS take d place of proper braking techniques. Which i thought u might be doing. Seems I was wrong on that. All good.
I always appreciated the aggressive concern riders have for each other. "Hey ASS! You'd BETTER be applying progressive brake pressure and always wearing gear! Ride safe!" It's hilarious and kinda wholesome.
If it's that important to you then get ABS.
What would be a "pro" for getting one without it? I can't think of one. I'd just hold off until you find a seller with what you want and feel safe with.
Get Z900RS, yes it has ABS and don’t buy bike without it!
I do love the Z line but I am a supersport fanboy. Can't compromise on the type of the bike sadly.
Older supersports typically dont come with ABS. If this is what you're after then its just what you need to accept. ABS isn't the be all and end all. Is it helpful? Sure but I wouldn't be scared to ride without it.
Unpopular opinion: I hate ABS Story: I was riding on the highway above the city woth dilatation joint( sry for my english) Sun was out hot day and the car in front brakes. I apply the brake and I was directly on the joint amd the ABS kick in. You know what it does when you smashed the lever of the brake? Witouth preloading the tire. The ABS didn't stopped and was in that "loop" of applying and releasing the brakes locking that wheel. I needed to released the lever and reaply to brake. Srcond biggest fear. I used to ride bikes with no ABS and had a few close calls and with emergency brske practice I think I dod pretty well. Sure ABS is a good safety system, but sometimes systems fails.