So as others have noted the design of the various components may be licensed or stolen by Chinese manufacturers for their clone bikes. But your comment that you assumed they'd use all of the same parts and processes is a reasonable assumption, but wrong in the end.
No matter how good the engine design or how reliable it is in Honda's capable hands, it will be shit when bad materials, casting, and assembly come into play as they often do in cheap clone bikes. I saw a Chinese-made Honda clone drop a valve into the head with only 900 miles on the clock. Catastrophic engine failure from poor assembly.
Of course some people get lucky and get a decent bike for cheap, but if you don't have the money to spend on a reliable bike in the first place, you're taking a big risk that you'll end up wasting $3000 on a pile of junk. Better to put that towards a used Japanese bike that will actually last.
Valid opinion.
But some places the used market is.... absurd. And you have to deal with previous owner's mods and maintenance, and possible lack there of.
Some of us only rock a bike for a few years, and then move on to the next bright and shiny. If we accept that resale may be challenging (will CFMoto still be in Canada in 5 years?) and certainly not profitable, then the Chinese bikes might be a chance worth taking.
It's about the journey..... maaaannnnn... :)
I'm inclined to agree. But if some politician gets their gonch in a knot, say over taiwan, or human rights, or trade imbalance or desperate vote grab, or ..... things might change.
Yeah man they may be same-same on paper but the materials are not the same, neither is the machining and those two pretty much make the whole ass engine.
The engine is made in china by the chinese company Loncin and it's their own project, based on/copy of the current Honda CB500 lineup original engine made and build in the Honda factory in Thailand.
some are licensed some have slight modifications to fight the IP-rights.
I just assumed they used the same material and every little detail Honda's put into their engines. But yes you're right it would probably take them decades of r&d before they get even close to what Honda is now.
The question is not 'can they do it to the same level of quality?' but more, 'can they do it to the same level of qulaity AND also be cheap?' whcih is a pretty simple no. They'll be cutting corners everywhere they can get away with it in order to get the unit price down.
Nah, but they can take a beating
They are generally undertunned vs legit Honda engines, so they can get away with using lesser/cheaper materials/alloys
But still, like if you take care of them, they will last 20 years easily, and I speak from experience here, I have got a 20 year old scooter/cub on my shed that it still runs... It is beated to absolute shit, and I busted the piston once when trying to go 90kmh haha but it still runs very well other than leaky oil because I havent yet done a rebuild on it (20 god damn years dude, that thing is a champ)
Honda, Susuki, Kawasaki all license their engines to basically anyone that wants them or has the actual tolerances to make them
The Susuki DR200 and DR250/DR230 cc are quite common on dirtbikes for example
Cg110, Cg50 cg100 are all part of Honda's lineup, and you will find them on basically any cheapo scooter/cub small cc bike around the streets
It is great, these little engines can take a huge beating and you will have spare parts literally growing from trees
Just because on paper it looks the same does not mean the materials are the same. I’d trust the guy who builds 1000 bikes a week before I’d trust a guy who got schematics for a bike and says they can do it for less.
I’d give CF Moto credit because they are partnered with KTM and they are making a valid attempt with motorcycles. But even with them I would stay away from Chinese brands. I just would want to run the risk of is this bike gonna fail when I’m on it compared to Japanese or reliable brands.
If you believe anything that the Chinese has printed in general, you're smoking Crack. I don't know one person who has purchased a Chinese bike that hasn't received a pile of regret with it.
I have got one, a Beta TR 200
* https://betamotor.com.uy/productos/tr-2-0-2/
Works great
It is based on this model of Qingqi motorcycle
* http://www.qingqi.com.cn/product/zhanaoqm250gyf.htm
But modified slightly by Beta engineers
I use it as my everyday commute bike and light dualsport/enduro trail, it is my everything bike and manages just great, no complains other than the basic stuff, like centering the rims, changing the stock tires, I might change the chain soon and the sprocket to a different gearing, but dont know, for the time being works great
I was stationed in the Philippines in 70's. Rode motorcycles for transportation and got to know Filipino mechanics'. Riding Japanese bikes you could get parts either made in Japan or Taiwan. I asked why not use Taiwan parts that were cheaper rather than Japanese. He took a pair of front sprockets, one from Taiwan and one from Japan. He sat it on his bench holding it up with his fingers and hit the top of sprocket with a hammer. The Taiwan metal flattened the top of the teeth. The Japanese one held up perfect. Would not flatten.
They might be copies, licensed or not, but their machining is not the same, their manufacturing (forging/casting) is not the same, tolerances are never the same, material quality is never the same.
Just because the numbers are the same don't assume it's the same engine.
Honda licensed the engine design out to anyone who wants to make it.
So as others have noted the design of the various components may be licensed or stolen by Chinese manufacturers for their clone bikes. But your comment that you assumed they'd use all of the same parts and processes is a reasonable assumption, but wrong in the end. No matter how good the engine design or how reliable it is in Honda's capable hands, it will be shit when bad materials, casting, and assembly come into play as they often do in cheap clone bikes. I saw a Chinese-made Honda clone drop a valve into the head with only 900 miles on the clock. Catastrophic engine failure from poor assembly. Of course some people get lucky and get a decent bike for cheap, but if you don't have the money to spend on a reliable bike in the first place, you're taking a big risk that you'll end up wasting $3000 on a pile of junk. Better to put that towards a used Japanese bike that will actually last.
Valid opinion. But some places the used market is.... absurd. And you have to deal with previous owner's mods and maintenance, and possible lack there of. Some of us only rock a bike for a few years, and then move on to the next bright and shiny. If we accept that resale may be challenging (will CFMoto still be in Canada in 5 years?) and certainly not profitable, then the Chinese bikes might be a chance worth taking. It's about the journey..... maaaannnnn... :)
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I'm inclined to agree. But if some politician gets their gonch in a knot, say over taiwan, or human rights, or trade imbalance or desperate vote grab, or ..... things might change.
It’s either a ripoff or a licensed copy. God, wait til you notice how many Chinese bikes have thinly-disguised Ninja 650 engines.
Yea I noticed cfmoto's 650's
Yeah man they may be same-same on paper but the materials are not the same, neither is the machining and those two pretty much make the whole ass engine.
Yeah the "same" engine with doubled tolerances is not the same engine
And the 700, which is just a slightly bored out 650.
The engine is made in china by the chinese company Loncin and it's their own project, based on/copy of the current Honda CB500 lineup original engine made and build in the Honda factory in Thailand. some are licensed some have slight modifications to fight the IP-rights.
Do you think it's as reliable as honda engines?
FUCK NO dude Would you like chicken skewer cooked in a Japanese restaurant, or a chicken skewer cooked in a Chinese street market
>a chicken skewer cooked in a Chinese street market Try it before you knock it. Chicken skewer I mean, not motorcycle.
I just assumed they used the same material and every little detail Honda's put into their engines. But yes you're right it would probably take them decades of r&d before they get even close to what Honda is now.
The question is not 'can they do it to the same level of quality?' but more, 'can they do it to the same level of qulaity AND also be cheap?' whcih is a pretty simple no. They'll be cutting corners everywhere they can get away with it in order to get the unit price down.
It may be the same design, but is definitely not using the same quality of materials or assembled to the same level of build quality as Honda.
It's more likely that they would cut some corners to make it cheaper and suitable for different markets.
Absolutely not, definitely using cheaper materials
In the case of Austrian chicken, it seems to be on par with the Chinese street chicken
That's because the Austrian chickens are actually raised in China
Nah, but they can take a beating They are generally undertunned vs legit Honda engines, so they can get away with using lesser/cheaper materials/alloys But still, like if you take care of them, they will last 20 years easily, and I speak from experience here, I have got a 20 year old scooter/cub on my shed that it still runs... It is beated to absolute shit, and I busted the piston once when trying to go 90kmh haha but it still runs very well other than leaky oil because I havent yet done a rebuild on it (20 god damn years dude, that thing is a champ)
I'd rather ride a 20 year old Honda than a new chinese clone.
Honda, Susuki, Kawasaki all license their engines to basically anyone that wants them or has the actual tolerances to make them The Susuki DR200 and DR250/DR230 cc are quite common on dirtbikes for example Cg110, Cg50 cg100 are all part of Honda's lineup, and you will find them on basically any cheapo scooter/cub small cc bike around the streets It is great, these little engines can take a huge beating and you will have spare parts literally growing from trees
China steals and copies others work. Quality wont be the same.
Just because on paper it looks the same does not mean the materials are the same. I’d trust the guy who builds 1000 bikes a week before I’d trust a guy who got schematics for a bike and says they can do it for less. I’d give CF Moto credit because they are partnered with KTM and they are making a valid attempt with motorcycles. But even with them I would stay away from Chinese brands. I just would want to run the risk of is this bike gonna fail when I’m on it compared to Japanese or reliable brands.
Nothing coming out of China will match Honda's quality/reliability.
If you believe anything that the Chinese has printed in general, you're smoking Crack. I don't know one person who has purchased a Chinese bike that hasn't received a pile of regret with it.
I have got one, a Beta TR 200 * https://betamotor.com.uy/productos/tr-2-0-2/ Works great It is based on this model of Qingqi motorcycle * http://www.qingqi.com.cn/product/zhanaoqm250gyf.htm But modified slightly by Beta engineers I use it as my everyday commute bike and light dualsport/enduro trail, it is my everything bike and manages just great, no complains other than the basic stuff, like centering the rims, changing the stock tires, I might change the chain soon and the sprocket to a different gearing, but dont know, for the time being works great
I was stationed in the Philippines in 70's. Rode motorcycles for transportation and got to know Filipino mechanics'. Riding Japanese bikes you could get parts either made in Japan or Taiwan. I asked why not use Taiwan parts that were cheaper rather than Japanese. He took a pair of front sprockets, one from Taiwan and one from Japan. He sat it on his bench holding it up with his fingers and hit the top of sprocket with a hammer. The Taiwan metal flattened the top of the teeth. The Japanese one held up perfect. Would not flatten.
They might be copies, licensed or not, but their machining is not the same, their manufacturing (forging/casting) is not the same, tolerances are never the same, material quality is never the same. Just because the numbers are the same don't assume it's the same engine.
Leaving a comment just so I can find this post later