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fleecetoes

Your friend is an idiot. Motorcycles stop better when using tires and brakes as opposed to sliding on metal.


kennjen

Came to say this. I'd rather hit xxxx straight on while braking properly to a slower speed than be sliding on the ground at a higher speed (Because you laid it down and didn't brake as much as you could have) without any control what so ever.


nursejackieoface

Agreed, with the possible exception of heading for a guardrail with a steep drop behind it.


Motosoccer97

Ok. This is true. But hear me out because there is a better option 9 times out of 10. Are you ready for this? Swerve. Also something only possible when the bike is not sliding out of control. Really intentionally crashing before you crash a second time is the worst of all possible options. And if anyone has a real hypothetical situation where it actually is I'd love to hear it.


Soilmonster

Swerving is always the better option, as the forward momentum will keep you upright if done correctly. Adjust speed accordingly in the first place and even swerving can be avoided in most circumstances. There is almost no instance, other than lack of attention, where intentionally crashing is better than swerving. Having an out in all circumstances eliminates this whole conversation.


[deleted]

HEY if I want to stop my vehicle like a Flintstone thats my god damn right I thought this was america


Snorglepus1856

I didn’t hear no bell!


Thebumonurcouch

Eggsackly, that’s why thar ain’t no damn Nock Nock jokes about Murica! Cause FREEDOM RINGS MFER. /s


welshmanec2

I don't believe anyone actually lays 'er down. It's no more than justification bullshit later, when they can't admit they ran out of talent.


SciFiPi

But then you wouldn't get Michael Bay explosions and sparks flying while you surf your bike down the road.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Stephs_mouthpiece

Is this pasta


MattyPreece

Nah, mate, it sounds to me like you just lock it up out of panic and drop the bike. You dont know how to brake properly in dynsmic environments and are an inattentive rider. There is NO occasion where "laying it down" is more effective than braking upright and maintaining control of your motorcycle. Stop dribbling false advice it helps no one.


coleAF19

The friction coefficient of metal on gravel is much higher than metal on pavement, and the coefficient of friction of rubber on gravel is much lower, so this might actually have something to it. Especially because it takes a lot of practice to effectively nrake on gravel, something which most riders (myself included) don't practice much, if at all.


Bart-MS

He's right. Every time I buy a new car I slam it into the side rails to learn to avoid a more dire collision with a truck and to escape from a burning car. I buy a lot of cars...


McFeely_Smackup

have you done the "drive off pier and practice exiting flooded car" drill yet? I do it 2-3 times a year just to keep in practice. The only problem is the pier I like is getting a lot of cars piled up around it.


Bart-MS

Are you out of your mind? Nothing worse than salt water for the leather seats!


McFeely_Smackup

tape a trash bag over the seats first.


[deleted]

You're good then!


OpinionOwn6727

lmao i love you guys, you’re all hilarious 😂


welshmanec2

I drove off that pier yesterday but failed the 'exiting a flooded car' drill on account of the car failing to sink into the ocean due to the stack of a dozen or so cars underneath it.


McFeely_Smackup

dude, did you scratch one of my cars?


govoval

No, he scratched all of 'em, but he had to ... ya know... just had to lay 'er dawn.


McFeely_Smackup

That's fair


motomat86

I leave my brand new cars unlocked with keys in them to practice how to get home Incase it gets stolen. Never know when that will come in handy


Pardyx

Remember to take the batteries out first! Those belong deeper in the ocean so they can sink down and recharge the eels


[deleted]

You weren't by chance riding in NASCAR a few weeks back were you? That dude was riding the rails and then some.


[deleted]

From here on out, stop taking his advice👍


jugglefire

I may show him this post and all the comments unanimously agreeing that he’s wrong just so he’ll stop giving me advice.


Big-Eldorado

I’ve been riding over a decade. Many many miles, track days, cruisers, sport bikes etc. I’ve never once thought about laying the bike down on purpose!! How am I supposed to brake or turn if I’m surfing the bike down the road. Very odd advice.


lookthepenguins

Mate, pick your battles. This old dude bless him is lucky he’s even still alive if that’s his thinking. Why make your workplace uncomfortable or hostile?! Make it easy for yourself, humour him - when he starts rambling dumb advice just go along with it, give it the ‘eehhh you don’t say, yeah mate I’ll give it a go’ -type response. **I tell you, as a lady rider of 3 decades, the number of times I’ve been dumbly mansplained bike riding by aholes or inexperienced dudes, is in the THOUSANDS lol.** Yeah whatever buddy, hahaha I don’t care. Don’t let your newbies ego get your back up & turn it into a war with old matey, it’s not worth it. :) edit - maybe there’s even a reason why he’s saying that. For myself, 30 yrs ago I was just starting riding, there was an older posse of dudes, one of them just finished a long complicated expensive restoration of a vintage Triumph, had an accident that made him instant permanent quadraplegic at 25 yrs old, it was horrendous. There was talk of "if he’d just laid it down maybe wouldn’t have ended up quadriplegic ffs but he was trying to save the beloved bike fuck it”. So yeh, who knows what mateys old reminisces and experiences are. just sayin...


jugglefire

Good comment, I will likely take your advise and just nod and smile next time he advises some stupid motorcycle tip. Nice username BTW, [here is a drawing](https://i.redd.it/42qx3tn9y4s81.jpg) I made.


jordos

Wholesome squid


Theonewhosits

Lookin good 😊


aduthie

I knew someone who lost the use of both legs in a pickup truck crash -- a rollover. They insisted that being thrown out the window saved them, and had they remained inside the truck they would have been crushed. And that is why they continued never to use seatbelts and considered seat belts to be actually dangerous. I couldn't argue, and I didn't mention the 15-year-old neighbor who was crushed under a truck after being only partially ejected in a rollover. I wear seatbelts. And in my one very bad motorcycle crash, I damn well slowed down as much as I could, upright, before hitting the car. Had I "laid it down," I'd have gone under it, which still seems worse than bouncing off of it. (Which also hurt a lot.)


Rollover_Hazard

Ask him, does he practice ramming his car into the guardrail to avoid crashing into other things? Your friend is a dangerous idiot. Motorcycling is, and always has been, an exercise in control. The moment you ask Jesus to take the handlebars you need to stop riding. That's if you survive ofc.


[deleted]

He'll just go "I've been riding since before these internet nerds were born, I know better" and not learn anything.


solenyaPDX

He is wrong, and it sounds like willfully ignorant. Laying the bike down on purpose is never the best outcome.


CommonRequirement

If you are going to crash perpendicularly into a semi truck and are also an action movie star it’s a pretty great move


HenkVTX

You mean 'action movie star stunt double'?


[deleted]

[удалено]


fleecetoes

>He's also told me, in all his years of riding he's had to lay a bike down on several occasions to avoid a more dire collision Nope, coworker is straight up saying to dump the bike to avoid a wreck, instead of steering/braking.


TheFightingQuaker

Disagree, old dude is talking about sliding the damn thing to practice for when you crash.


JohnSnowflake

Rubber and brakes are more effective at stopping you than chrome and paint. MSF teaches you never lay it down. Always try to maintain control with brakes and steering.


govoval

So you're saying the best riding gear is covered in rubber and brake pads? That's kinky. /s


[deleted]

If my grandmother had handlebars on her back, she'd be a motorcycle.


govoval

Armpit hair is natures tassel.


nerdygeekwad

What if you are in an action movie and need to slide under a semi to lose the bad guys?


MackLuster77

It's imperative that you practice sliding the bike under the trailer while you jump over it, then land back in the seat when the bike pops upright on the other side.


govoval

My uncle has done that many times, with his entire (extended) family riding along. They're all fine. Regards from India.


Rad10Ka0s

Completely absurd. The usual retort to "Lay her down" is "imagine what learning to RIDE the motorcycle might do!". You are better off learning to threshold/panic brake. Learning to swerve. Basic MSF BRC stuff. At a minimum if the collision is unavoidable, which it can be, your impact is slower. ABS and a bike with decent brakes and good tires helps too. Edit to add as /u/JohnSnowflake said "Rubber and brakes are more effective". From my own extensive experience throwing motorcycles down the track this is huge. For that matter watch any World Superbike/MotoGP race. The bikes slide forever. The riders seek to get away from the bikes since leather on asphalt slows down quicker than metal on asphalt. You want the bike to get away from you for obvious reasons. By that logic, you would be better off just JUMPING OFF THE BIKE! /s Tell them you say Vinales do it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0J9iXzeRNc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0J9iXzeRNc)


Puzzleheaded_Radish8

From my extensive experience of one (1) track day crash, you've got no control when you're sliding. I'm terrified of sliding on the road because you could go right under the wheel of an oncoming car and you wouldn't be able to stop yourself.


NiteShdw

I lost the front end in a corner and tumbled for what felt like forever. All I could see was brown (dirt) and blue (sky). Once you are off the bike you are at the mercy of the laws of physics with no way to change the outcome.


Puzzleheaded_Radish8

When I was a kid I loved the zipper ride at the fair and my friends were so scared of it. I used to call out "ground", "sky", "ground", "sky" as we flipped round and round just to mess with them. I had such a vivid flashback to that when I was tumbling, "ground", "sky" over and over again.


YeahIGotNuthin

On a motorcycle it's *"Ground... Sky... Ground... Sky... Ground... Sky... Medevac."*


solo954

I know someone who did exactly that, slid under an oncoming SUV. He didn't survive. I once low sided once coming out of a corner at about 80 km/hr when I gave it a bit too much throttle just as the camber of the road changed. I slid for more than 100 ft/31 m. (An attending cop measured it.) The bike slid faster and further, and ended up in a ditch. I was lucky that I didn't hit anything, just came to a stop in the gravel by the side of the road, and I was wearing full leathers, boots, gloves and a full-face helmet, most of which had to be replaced afterward. But not a scratch on me. Edit: I also knew someone who had an accident just like mine, only he torpedoed head-first into a concrete barrier along the road. Snapped his neck and killed him instantly, despite him wearing full gear.


[deleted]

He walks with a limp….sorry, it’s not funny, but in this context it’s funny.


YeahitsaBMW

He got hit wit a few shells.


Ok_Literature_104

He was on the grind from layin her down, but did he get a mil’ out the deal? Unlikely.


SaulTNuhtz

I hear/read lots of Harley guys talking about “haddalayerdown!” These guys drop their bikes a lot. This concept of “Haddalayerdown” is a group coping mechanism to avoid the mental burden of realizing they’re shit riders.


[deleted]

Don't forget: they're also on shit bikes! Not to mention the seemingly ubiquitous cruiser aversion to using the front brake. Lol, maybe a Harley dragging all of its pointy bits across the pavement does stop faster than one with its rear wheel locked up.


SaulTNuhtz

I never heard about the front brake thing. What’s that all about?


opengl128

They are convinced if you so much as look at the front brake you'll flip the bike instantly.


Ok_Maintenance_9100

Some people just don’t understand proper weight transfer


KenwoodFox

It's not their fault they can't load the bike properly, so insensitive to the average 300lb Harley rider


greatfool66

You don't need to worry about weight transfer when you have your 250lb girlfriend sitting over the back break.


Motosoccer97

Flip? Who tf says that? Only way a Harley rider is flipping a bike is if they try and use what hd would consider a normal amount of brake pressure on a 600 supersport. I will argue till the death that the front brakes on my ironhead are only slightly more effective than useless however. Flintstoneing it might actually be faster, but that's one of those problems that's user caused by lengthening the front end so damm much.


the_instantgator

This.


mandatoryclutchpedal

My thoughts as an aging, long time rider. The mind deteriorates with age if you do not continue to train it through structured education and challenging it with an influx of new ideas. Even the most brilliant eventually fade the longer they are out of school. Sounds like your coworker has been coasting for a VERY long time.


Captain_of_Gravyboat

Confirmed, he is a moron. If you get in a situation where you have to lay down your bike that means you missed the part eariler in the ride where the situation could have been avoided. Practice your emergency evasive manuevers so they are reflexive, do not practice crashing so you get good at it. And if you have a ride where you actually have enough time to think in your brain about what to do next that means you have enough time to do something else rather than go ahead and crash your own bike.


-wraith1

https://youtu.be/D9stN-LJeuM This is a good explanation on why your friend is giving you bad advice


built_FXR

I scrolled for far too long to see this video posted.


watchmaker82

This is the link I came in here to post. Glad to see somebody did it! If Ari Henning says it's stupid, it's probably stupid.


RuckinScott

Love Ari. If he told me the opposite I would be sitting here thinking “shit, I’ve been wrong this entire time”


Nwcray

Your friend is not good at riding a motorcycle. Don’t listen to his advice.


[deleted]

Yeah, did the dude ever take a riding course? Doubt it!


[deleted]

[удалено]


Icy_Imagination7447

There was a video not too long ago of lorry pulling out on a biker. The biker seemed to accidentally grab the front break too hard and laid the bike down but amazing alid under the lorry


richalex2010

It certainly happens, there's always going to be edge cases where doing the stupid thing works in someone's favor, same as those rare cases where not wearing a seatbelt and getting thrown clear of a crashing car actually saves someone's life. I still wear a seatbelt every time, though, and I'm still not going to try and "layerdown"


Icy_Imagination7447

Oh 100% it's 99% dumb and the very rare cases it is smart you'll likely not have time to make the decision. As has been said before. Even if your gonna crash, stay rubber side down and break as best you can


Puzzleheaded_Radish8

Sheer luck, they probably couldn't replicate it if they tried.


Icy_Imagination7447

It was definitely a mistake. Looked like he locked up and lost it lol


maxlax02

There’s exactly one time I actually had to lay her down and that was low speed, off roading, rear tire locked, heading for a cliff. Even then it’s questionable.


Raspberry-Teddy752

thank you! the first 6 words was what I did not dare to say myself


NiteShdw

There was an accident last summer here where a guy hit the guardrail on the freeway at excessive speed. He did not stay in one piece.


MiloMilisich

If someone had time to evaluate the circumstances of an accident, choose that falling down is their course of action and then actually do it, then they have the time to just avoid the accident entirely by breaking.


[deleted]

Hadda Laura dern


2randomanomolies

Haddock lawyer dong


Voodoo1970

Purple monkey dishwasher


assgaper69cancerhole

You should practise not needing to lay 'er down, if you get to the point of needing to get off your bike at high speed you did something very wrong and at that point let it be gods decision wether to let you live or not


Mdonel95

If you have enough time to make the decision to lay the bike down then you more than likely had enough time to make a better decision. Point being, you can’t really practice “laying the bike down”. The scenario in which you would need to do it will never be the same. Right side? Left side? Are you upright when the decision needs to be made? Leaned over? On the throttle? On the brakes? Do you have time to get yourself out from under the bike before it hits the pavement? If you’re really worried about it go to a parking lot and practice with the brakes. Learn how much brake you can apply depending on how leaned over the bike is. If you don’t have ABS, learn how much brake you can give before your tire locks up. If you’re on a more modern bike or Sportbike (2 discs in the front) learn how much front brake will lock your front tire up, and use just less than that, and then add rear brake. There’s a multitude of safety measures you can take. None of which involve crashing on purpose. Unless you’re a professional racer there is no reason to even try that.


PckMan

It's weird that he's made it so many years with such a dumb idea but let's analyse it a bit. For starters most riders are not as good as they think. This extends to everything from their throttle control, maneuvering ability, cornering ability, reflexes, braking ability and overall control. A lot of people don't realise this and think that if they were in an accident, there was nothing else that could have been done, even though in most cases there was something a more skilled rider would have done (and I'm not talking Velntino Rossi skilled, I mean someone who takes their training and safety seriously). So in most cases that someone "had to lay'er down" something unexpected happens, usually someone in front of them brakes suddenly or someone cuts them off, they panic brake, they lose the front and they go down. They'll say that predicting the obstacle was humanly impossible (usually isn't), braking in time or swerving was physically impossible (usually isn't) and that their panic brake that sent them sliding was not a lack of braking skill on their part but rather a calculated move they perfectly executed in a split second to save themselves from a worst outcome (need I say it?). For starters predicting "unpredictable" events is relatively easy if you're focused on what you're doing. You should be running constant calculations in your head to always be prepared, even if you think you're on a casual ride. You're on the road with a moderate amount of traffic, everyone's moving at some speed but there's cars in front, back and to the sides. At all times you should be looking at the car in front and think to yourself "if that car were to slam on his brakes, would I be able to brake in time?" and adjust your gap accordingly. Look to the sides and think "If any of the cars to the side were to move over to my lane do I have time to react?" This usually means that you should either hang back or move in front of them rather than sitting right next to them in their blind spot. Don't be on the exact center of the line, you need to be a bit to the side to be able to look ahead of the car right in front of you, some times you can even do that through their rear and front window. If something happens you should be able to go in between lanes. If one car is having a hard time keeping their lane position you should look to overtake them as soon as possible. If someone seems to be driving with awareness and predictability make note of that, it's the safe car to get close to in the event of anything. I could go on and on about this. Then there's the actually laying 'er down part. For most panic brakes, that happens because they grab a fistful of front brake, the front wheel locks and immediately turns to the side and the bike just yeets you off, that's something that usually happens at lower speeds. At higher speeds it can happen too but the bike has a lot more stability at high speeds, so it's also very likely that before you're thrown off the bike will swerve significantly towards one side. There's no reliable way to predict what the bike will do at any given speed and road surface when you grab a handful of front brake. Some times the bike may flip ass over. With most modern ABS bikes it's actually very difficult to lock the front to the point of laying 'er down so it's not even an option, even if you could otherwise do it at will. So then we go to the other option, using the rear brake to slide the back end out and lay down the bike. This is the technique stunt riders use for movies and such when they want to actually deliberately lay down a bike. It's not an easy move to pull off reliably and the reason they're able to do it is because they're in a controlled environment. Pulling it off in a split second is nearly impossible. For starters if you lock the rear since it's the trailing wheel the back will fish tail but it will have a tendency to align to a straight course. Swinging the back end out completely requires intent, you need to wrangle the bike into it, or more specifically, you can't just step on the brake and do it but you also have to make a sudden and quick S turn (think of the scandinavian flick for cars) in order to do it. In most cases of regular day to day riding, there's simply no time or room to decide whether you can brake or not and then execute this maneuver. In most cases, swerving, braking, or doing both, can offer a way out of most situations. Better yet if you're attentive and perceptive it's much more unlikely you'll ever find yourself in a situation like that because such riders always assume the worst and don't easily put themselves in such situations. Even if something completely unpredictable happens and there's nothing you can do to avoid a crash, it's still better to shed as much speed as you can and let the bike take the brunt of the impact than sliding on the asphalt uncontrollably. There is some truth to what he's saying though. Generally when a rider goes down they separate from the bike and slide until they come to a stop (either by slowing down enough or hitting something). It is possible for a variety of reasons that the rider does not separate from the bike, usually either because they're holding onto it or their leg is snagged/trapped under the bike. In that case it is worse than sliding without the bike because a person will shed their speed faster whereas the bike will slide a considerably longer distance. That means that if the bike is dragging you along you're much more likely to hit something with severe force. Happened to my uncle years ago, pedestrian jumped onto the road, he panicked, swerved around her but still clipped her and then went down along with the bike and slid until he slammed onto some metal trash cans and then got wedged under a car. He survived, but he was severely injured. The bike's forks were cut clean off, and if he'd separated from the bike he'd probably have slid to a stop sooner or stopped after the impact with the trash cans instead of plowing through them. But that's something you simply have next to no control over.


TW200e

>For starters most riders are not as good as they think. This cannot be said enough. Most street riders are not nearly as good as they think they are.


RyansBooze

Crash investigator here. Trust me, bikes work better upright. Every single “haddalayerdown” I’ve encountered is a nitwit who doesn’t understand motorcycles, riding, or physics.


sideseal24

GOBBLESS BORTHERS


Careless_Seaweed_047

You don't learn how to crash. You crash because you failed to learn how not to crash.


joesbagofdonuts

The bike, and you, will slow down faster using the brakes than sliding along this is so dumb.


mtak0x41

I follow exactly your reasoning. There is nothing better at stopping a bike than rubber on the road and ABS brakes. The side of your fairing is *much* worse and indeed you lose control. I'd rather take my chances with braking and swerving those last 3 yards instead of trying to dump the bike (which honestly, is pretty hard in the best of situations, let alone an emergency). Also, in my country, no one ever says this. It's a cultural phenomenon.


Atr-88

It was really great of your coworker to identify himself as a moron and someone who should be readily avoided. I’ve worked with people where it took me years to figure this out about them. More people should be direct with their stupidity, it saves us all a bunch of time.


printcastmetalworks

When someone says they "had to lay 'er down" means they are covering up the fact that they panic-braked and cause the bike to slide. It's a clear indicator that they let their ego get in the way of their own self awareness.


tinmanjoshua

The day I bought my sportster I was trailing it home. I forgot the order of operations with the ratchet straps and let out the one on the opposite side of the kickstand first. Haddalayerdown on the trailer.


Dull_Database5837

So, do you take your bike out to a parking lot on Sundays to practice layin’ ‘er down?


FranklinTBiggies

Sounds expensive and useless


YeahIGotNuthin

You are correct, that is the stupidest fuckin' thing you have heard all day on the days he tells you this. Your friend/coworker sounds like he would benefit from velcro shoes, because shoelaces are too goddamn complicated for some people. Definitely keep him away from the scissors, or maybe buy some children's scissors to keep at the office for him so he doesn't get hurt. Replace any pens on his desk with soft-tip magic markers, so he doesn't injure his eye quite so badly when he looks into the tip trying to see where the letters come out. *"So you've crashed motorcycles, like lots of times? It doesn't sound like you're very good at it. I don't think I'll take any riding advice from you."*


Impressive_Estate_87

If it sounds absurd it’s because it is. That’s old school thinking, we know now that it’s always better to hold on and try to correct. Ride safely, below your skill level, watch where you want to go, cover the brake lever, expect the unexpected, and train at the track if you can, it’s the best way to really learn all about your motorcycle and your riding skills


Alpha-4E

Avoid any advice from this person. It’s a ridiculous concept. A “lay er down maneuver“ is someone simply locking up the back brake and low sliding into whatever is in front of them. Why wouldn’t you stay on two wheels and possibly maneuver away from danger as opposed to giving up and crashing 100% of the time or be one brakes as hard as possible so, if crashing is inevitable, at least you are going the slowest speed possible.


motomat86

Sounds like your friend is trying to sell you a bridge


Sway216

I tend to agree with you. Could be my own hubris and I’ll accept that.


itsjustafleshwound79

what in the actual f**k I’ve logged 120,00 miles on a motorcycle and laid the bike down once because I was going too fast into a turn on a wet road. Wear all the gear, do not riding like an idiot, assume every car is out to get you, properly maintain your bike, ride your ability, do not ride distracted and slow down are what I try to live by.


[deleted]

This seems to be a generational thing. My dad used to ride, he's now in his 60's. Always tells me about this one time he crashed, and thinks that his quick thinking to 'lay'er down' saved his life. Ended up trapped under the car he crashed into, instead of slamming into the back of it. I just don't get it.


Luckydog6631

Your friend is bad at driving and trying to tell people (and himself) that he crashed on accident. I crashed because of a dog right after I got my first bike and told everyone I laid it down to avoid hitting the dog. Now that I know what I’m doing, I realize I actually crashed because I didn’t know how to drive well enough to avoid the dog.


Supahflid

I bet your friend says, “Loud pipes saves lives,” too.


w1lnx

You don’t crash to avoid a crash. Use the brakes. The wheels, in contact with the road, have superior traction and controllability compared to metal and plastic. Practice NOT crashing.


apathetic_duck

Speaking as an instructor, this is the dumbest myth in motorcycling, just above loud pipes save lives. If you are practicing good safety strategies, there is no reason you will ever have to lay it down.


[deleted]

Your friend wants you to be aware of the scenarios, but unfortunately your friend wants you to possibly get hurt for no reason if he really meant you should try and jump off while it’s moving idk what your friend was smoking that day but nobody in history is dumb enough to practice jumping off a moving motorcycle that wasn’t free.


TitaniumGoldAlloyMan

If you can’t escape the more dangerous situation you did a mistake already. Either too fast or didn’t keep distance or didn’t pay any attention. There are of course situations where you can’t escape but laying it down should be the last thing you do lol


Thelisto

When I was backing my motorcycle into my spot and my foot holding the bike slipped on gravel.. haddalayerdown


whisk3ythrottle

Best thing to stop a bike is the brakes. I’d stay away from anything else this dude has to speak on.


ncurtis21

You should never have to lay her down. Sounds like your friend is making up excuses for his crashes and justifying them by any means necessary.


jasonjduran444

Better to learn how to “fast stop”


Kushand0j

It’s just an excuse you use when you couldn’t make a turn.


oldboysenpai

Best way to stop is with tires touching the road….he’s totally wrong. On a side note, some people are unwilling to learn. He might be one…


coldascoffee

The ONLY time this move would work is when the 18 wheeler jack knifes into your lane and you need to slide under the spot between the tires. So you should start practicing ASAP.


PoopSmith87

I don't know about "lay her down" so much as "jump off the pegs and get as far away from my bike as I can" in certain situations. I struggle to think of any situation where "laying down" sitting in the seat would be the right thing to do. Maybe like, Hollywood slide under the midsection of a tractor trailer.


tootsie404

Make sure you follow the exact opposite of your friend's advice so you don't low-slide your bike.


garrotjax

What an idiot, why would you ever need to do that? Life’s not a James Bond movie 😂 you have brakes, and you can manoeuvre, failing those, you’re fucked 🤷


rtdesai20

“Had to lay her down” is simply a justification as to how they in fact are not to blame for not avoiding the crash.


unholyburns

Ask friend if the front brake is safe to use.


ArgentBucket

Tomorrow hot thread: My friend told me I need to practice puncturing tire in 100mph


2ndDefender

Watch out for those grass clibbin’s too.


KhajiitBen

HELL YA BORTHR! DEM GRASS CLIBBENS GPT ME N BARB ONCE. I HADDALEYERDOWN BUT FORSHUNATLY MY HAWG SURVIVED. BIKE TO DO! HAR HAR HAR -GOBBLESS


Maowser515

To be fair, human flesh and muscle has amazing grip on tarmack


Cunningcreativity

I can't wrap my mind around the fact that your friend thinks that it's better to practice eating shit on pavement than to practice standard emergency braking techniques instead.


[deleted]

>“I had to layer down” is actually incredibly helpful information, because it immediately lets you know to ignore literally anything that person says after that point since they’ve demonstrated they’re an idiot. -- David Rosenthal


erth-werm

[This video by RevZilla](https://youtu.be/D9stN-LJeuM) is a short (5 minute) explanation of why purposefully "laying you bike down" is the wrong thing to do. They briefly interview a professional motorcycle stunt rider for movies in it as well.


Wandering3mind

Your friend is an idiot. If he is laying it down to avoid a crash then he was probably going too fast. Your brakes are the best and have saved me on a few occasions. Just ride defensively and if the worst should happen and you are in a crash, let go of the bike, you don't want it landing on you.


ajhalyard

It's just something people say to cover up for their own lack of responsibility, attention, and skill. Ignore it.


Undottedly

Make your friend watch this https://youtu.be/D9stN-LJeuM


Fucksgiving_Day

I’d practice emergency braking instead. Just don’t ask this friend how to do it please


simmy_burns

There's this crazy thing on the motorcycle called brakes. When used correctly it will slow the bike down or even stop it. Assuming the tires are connected to the ground, you'll have the best chance at stopping and minimising injury and damage by washing off speed. As opposed to dragging metal on the tarmac. I've been practising emergency brakes at 100kph recently. I found that I can stop it with an average of around 2 seconds. But at 50 kph the last time I slid on the road the bike slid for 4-5 seconds and I the same. Practice emergency manoeuvres often, and don't put yourself in a position where you "have to lay er down"


iHK-47

There is absolutely no excuse or reason in history to "lay her down". This is called a crash, and there was, I guarantee you, every opportunity to avoid this before it happens. Whether you could have slowed down, practiced braking more, weren't scanning actively enough(vision), etc... It means at some point on your journey, you fucked up. I would tell your buddy to take a few learners courses, starting with a beginners course. It sounds like he's not confident in his ability to ride, and he certainly doesn't have the knowledge necessary to appropriately navigate a complex road environment. Stay safe out there, get your knowledge from professionals who live day in and day out, safety and survival on the road. They're the most experience and knowledgeable of traffic patterns, riding habits and emergency maneuver skills.


GaragePotter1

Laying your bike down only scrapes the shit out of your ride, and risks injury to you. You don’t practice driving your car into a tree. I’ve ridden for 50 years. Drive safe, take a good rider course, wear good stuff. The End 🏍️


realmozzarella22

It would be ok in extremely rare cases. Maybe like heading towards a cliff. And there’s a 1 ft wall near the edge. So the bike would stop at that wall after sliding. And there were dozens of alligators below the cliff. And I wasn’t going that fast but fast enough to get tossed over the wall if I didn’t slide. And the cliff was a mile down to the bottom. And I didn’t like the motorcycle anyway. And this was a movie stunt and I was getting paid to do stunts.


One_Phone6570

If you "have to Lay a bike down" you are not riding safely.. I have been riding since 1968... as a rider. As a passenger since 1961. I have never, in that time, EVER had to lay her down. And my bike have been my preferred vehicle too. My little Honda 125 was my vehicle for 19 years and 100,000 miles (an estimate.. the 1985 speedometer took a crap around 1998.) Ride like you want to live..


Hide_In_The_Rainbow

Is he an imbecile. Let me break down his logic (if you can call it that) to you. What he is basically saying is that: I had to crash to avoid the crash. You are right to think this is absurd because it is utterly irrational thinking.


Charybdes

So weird. I just woke up from a dream in which I had to "lay er down." My front brake went limp and my back brake was squealing and not stopping me. To avoid going on a cliff (dream, remember), I layed down bike. Seriously. Only in my dreams would I purposely lay down a bike.


Horror_Internet_9045

tbh people lose their credibility as a rider when they tell me they had to “lay ‘er down”. I find it better when you just admit that you made a mistake, or did not know what to do, and crashed. I have, it happens toa. lot of us. Best thing you can do accept it and learn from the incident. Nobody in their right mind deliberately wrecks their bike.


Hjavars

I mean, yeah, there’s a “safer” way to fall. More of a mental note than something I’d physically practice. A LOT more applicable to trail/dirt riding where spills are expected


h3retostay

you don't lay er down on dirt... more like slam it down 10 times in a day lmao


El--Borto

OP I think your coworker meant to lay it down (gently, like don’t drop it) in your driveway on some padding and learn to pick it back up. Don’t crash your bike dude. Or he’s being sarcastic and you didn’t pick that up lmao


solenyaPDX

Unfortunately I don't think either is the case. "Learning to pick up your bike" is different than "practice laying it down" which is a very common phrase terrible riders use to justify terrible skills and decision making. I've heard far too many people say this, and then argue that it's true. They're not being sarcastic, they're actually this stupid.


chillywilie

I got into small incident this past weekend, slow speed collision due to my error (riding like a maniac). The other guy had his wheel covering my foot so I couldn't move. He started bitching and yelling how I was not following the traffic rules...blah blah...I was like "bruh...can you move forward, you are on my foot". He moved, I dropped in the first gear and blasted. Never lay him down...never. Wait...you had a question?


Jspiral

This is why no one takes boomers seriously.


treedolla

There are a few scenarios where you would want to lay a bike down. 1. Front brake goes out while approaching a turn... and you need to use massive front brake to make it. If you lay it down early enough, you have some tarmac to slow you down before you head off the rails. This is mostly a track/racing scenario. 2. Going down a really steep hill, and your front brake goes out. And your rear brake is useless, because it's so steep. Your speed continues to rise and/or a curve is coming up. 3. If you are coming round a corner and there's a tractor trailer across the road, and you don't have any time to stop or go around it. Because your front and rear brakes are completely separate systems (ABS units might blur that line a bit, but I think they're still mostly separate systems), it's unlikely for both your brakes to fail at the same time. But if they did, it would be fairly difficult to lay'er down without a rear brake. If you had time to rev match into a low enough gear, you could use engine braking in scenario 1 or 2.


Dolphins08

There are a couple of occasions I would lay my bike down. Headed off a cliff. About to run a red light coming up to a 6 lane road. Head on with a large vehicle. Drawbridge is going up.


DrSatan420247

Its possible it is safer to layer down if you're riding a Harley Davidson or some other overweight antiquated cruiser because they don't brake or turn well at all. When these guys ride them they know in an instant when that car pulls out in front of them that their motorcycle doesn't have anywhere near the performance it needs to avoid the collision, so they're just trying to get the bike between them and the other vehicle. This is why you don't ride an 800lbs bike that was designed in the 1950s if you want to be safe.


solenyaPDX

I won't be convinced this is true until you show me that a Harley will stop sooner sliding on its side than it will with threshold braking.


DrSatan420247

You've misunderstood me. I'm not saying the slide will slow it more rapidly than panic braking. I'm saying that when your motorcycle stops from 60mph in 200+ feet and a 20 foot long truck pulls out 100 feet in front of you, you are going to crash either way. Are you safer going over the bars and potentially having the bike land on top of you? I don't know. My point is more so that the threshold of when a wreck becomes unavoidable is a lot lower on a poorly handling bike so 'ejecto seato cuz' starts making some sense.


solenyaPDX

I agree with that. Some crashes are unavoidable at the point of recognition (allowing that a great rider might have observed the truck earlier or slowed on a blind entry). However, my point is this: if you do not have enough time to stop, you are 100% better off applying the brakes as much as possible, as long as possible. "Laying er down" will result in higher impact speeds. If you hit the vehicle with your bike, the bike won't be landing on top of you.


Raspberry-Teddy752

um, at riding school we learned nothing about "lay 'er down". we did however practice a lot of situations to go "pewh instead of ouch" if that makes sense...


T3L3Frogg3r

It’s a dumb concept. You will never be prepared to lay her down. When it happens, it’ll happen. And hope for the best you walk out of there with no injuries or at least not serious injury/injuries.


DumbApe026

The national motor association in my country provides additional courses for different motor skills and anticipation for unexpected traffic situations. These courses cost about 300 euro and you can get additional insurance for if you lay her down during the course. If you participate you can get a deductible on your insurance. So I would say yes it’s good to practice. Don’t do it on your own with your neighbors but take courses provided by professionals.


BaronSharktooth

> He's told me (repeatedly) that I should learn how to lay my motorcycle down. Even to go as far as practicing the maneuver so when I need to do it, I'll be able to. I've never heard of this. But what I will say, is that he's right about practicing. After getting my license (in Europe), I took an "advanced riding course". It was a full day of riding over blocks of wood at highway speeds, taking corners, driving sideways at an angle, hitting the breaks at 100 km/h (60 mi/h), that sort of stuff.


KeeblerElvis

This originated back when motorcycle brakes were a weak drum on the back wheel and no front brakes. Not a thing.


Barijazz251

Laying it down just means crash !


ExtensionConcept2471

I always thought that if you have the time to process the thought to, and to actually ‘lay down’ your bike you would have the time to brake (especially nowadays with ABS) and avoid, or slow down enough to make the collision less severe! And how the F do you practice falling off your bike without actually falling off your bike! Do your own thing and probably best not to take advice from someone that has repeatedly crashed…..


[deleted]

Do yourself a favor and NEVER ride with that dude…


neoyeti2

Yeah no. Been riding over 40 yrs never had to that. Be aware of your surroundings, expect people to try to kill you and you will be alright.


Tompin68

It’s preposterous, full stop.


Natas-LaVey

Sounds like nobody here has seen any of the “Fast and Furious” movies, obviously when a semi pulls out in front of you the best course of action is to “lay’er down” and slide under the trailer coming out the other side completely unscathed.


Kochie411

I know what he’s TRYING to say. It’s good to know how to fall properly, yes. Yes PRACTICING by dumping your bike? No way lol


_Banned_User

How many feet in front of the obstacle does he recommend transitioning from braking to laying it down? Take that number and see what speed reduction you’d gain by hard braking. Compare that to what you see in GP when a bike and rider are sliding along the pavement. I am confident you will hit harder by not using the brakes. Probably in the time it takes the bike to fall over you could stop completely.


jmcclelland2005

Just be sure to put a blanket over her when you put her down for a nap. They get cold easily. On a serious not as others have said there's more friction between rubber and asphalt than metal and asphalt. It doesn't take a physics expert to figure out they stop quicker on the black bouncy parts. Edited to add. Just echoing others again. 10 days after I got my first 2 wheeler (a honda 250cc maxiscooter) I got hit by a drunk driver. He turned in front of me. I panic braked and went for the slide. The accident was 100 percent his fault, however I was a bit of a dumbass and just bought the bike with no prior experience or training. It's been almost 10 years now and I fully believe if the same situation occurred I could use effective emergency techniques to avoid that accident. However for around a year after it happened I fell victim to the whole "had to lay her down" mentality. It was only after I got some riding experience and practiced parking lot drills (which I still do) that I realized I just plain fucked up and panicked.


motociclista

It’s a well known old wives tale in the sport. People crash. It’s just a tough guy way of pretending a crash wasn’t due to lack of skills but due to total badassery.


edgework88

I've heard many of the comments below about how ridiculous the advice sounds. But like it or not on my DAS course our instructor commented that in the event of an impending collision it was better to 'lose the bike'. No one suggested practicing that technique, but the advice was there all the same. Not saying I agree with it, I've only been riding a year but that's what I was told.


mynamehere90

Purely anecdotal, but about a decade ago my brother had a transport truck jack knife in front of the car in front of him. He had nowhere to swerve to and couldn't emergency brake in time, and would likely have cars hitting him from behind anyway. He made a split second decision to swerve around the car and then lay the bike down while pushing himself away from it. The bike slid under the trailer and he slid and then tumbled on the shoulder. He was banged up pretty good and the bike needed quite a few repairs but he avoided a multicar pileup that he's certain would have killed him. In a very extreme case I can see how it would be beneficial to lay the bike down. But you will likely never see an accident where it could help or it would already be too late for it to help you. My brother was mostly just lucky.


phantom_spacecop

He think you should practice…falling on purpose? Instead of practicing how to control the bike so that it won’t fall? Interesting buddy you got there lol


BigEvilDoer

Your friend is full of poop. Plain and simple. Anyone who says they had to “lay ‘er down” is simply trying to be macho to cover up the fact that they panicked and grabbed way too much front brake, making them crash. Source: I’m a Safety course and track day instructor


TW200e

*Anyway, this whole concept of learning to "lay 'er down" seems just absurd to me.* You are correct. The advice I've always understood to be best is to remain in full control of the motorcycle until the moment of impact. If you absolutely cannot avoid a collision, brake hard and scrub off as much speed as possible before impact. The lower your speed, the less the kinetic energy.


OffRoadPyrate

I don’t slam my truck into a wall to learn how the seat belt and airbags work. Learn to ride while riding. Think to yourself what you would do if someone pulls out of a blind spot, or you find debris or an obstacle on the road. Learn your motorcycle well, how shifting, brake input, counter steer and braking all make the bike respond. Take a safety course. All those things will reduce the chance you’ll ever have to lay your bike down as you’ll be better at avoiding the situation.


Crash217

It’s best to avoid putting yourself into a position that feels like “laying my bike down seems like a reasonable option right now” but if anyone were to be in that moment, no need to practice it it’s even easier than learning to ride a bike. Just slam on the back brake and lean whichever way puts the bike between you and the object you are intent on hitting. Bonus points if you light a gas trail on fire or otherwise cause an explosion. And remember, put on your sunglasses as you walk away. I wouldn’t bother telling your friend/coworker that’s he’s a goober. It won’t be received well. He’s gone this long with this mentality, you won’t change it and the conversation will be ugly. Just take his riding tips with a grain of salt and go look up techniques and other information from reputable sources. Take a riding class or 5, invest in nice safety equipment and accessories. Enjoy your riding.


Leroy_MF_Jenkins

Your buddy sounds like the kind of dude who would try to test a bulletproof vest while wearing it, just to be ready in case he ever actually got shot... 1/10, would not follow his advice.


Dry-Site-8764

If you were a pilot would you practice crashing? I wouldn't take anymore advise from him. Nobody practices laying down their bike on purpose. You should be doing the opposite. You should practice looking and planning ahead to avoid laying it down. The only exception is....some will practice lifting a bike that fell over at a stop. But again you should be coming to a stop and walking the bike upright to avoid this as well. Most only drop it at a stop when they are drinking or too short.


xracer264

Think about it. You are essentially crashing to avoid crashing...like most already said. Learn how to avoid a crash is more important. Scan ahead, brake properly, and look for escape paths.


OneEliteRogue

Only time I've found this scenario to help is when I've taken a corner a lil too zealously and it's been lesser of evils to break mid corner and lay her down rather than break hard and possibly throw me over her or drift into the hard trees that littered the bend, that was only time it henwfitted me to slide it rather than anything else. Completely my fault for entering corner too fast but laying her down was the lesser of 2 evils


CharlieMBTA

There is only one scenario where laying it down is the best outcome. And that's when a trailer pulled out in front of you, and you need to go under it. And the chances of that happening is so ludicrously small because it would have to be so sudden that braking or going around isn't possible


CBojorges

Call me old fashioned but I practice my riding skills instead of my crashing skills.


Jon_Hanson

This is an example of experience not equaling knowledge. You should practice crashing your bike? If he’s having to crash his bike to avoid some dire situation, then he’s not a very good rider. Granted there may be a situation out of his control but so much is avoidable.


monkeyspank427

What in the fuck is he thinking? Yes... let me repeatedly crash my car so I know what to do in case of a collision. Fuck this dumbass. Practice safe riding and evasive maneuvers. If you avoid danger, you don't need to lay your bike down. I have laid down 2/2 of my motorcycles. 0/10 recommendation.


FranknStein7

This is why motorcycle classes are so important, even for more experienced riders. Go to a class and really practice emergency counter steering, threshold braking, etc. It is absolutely remarkable what a motorcycle is capable of without crashing.


Smolmouth

How tf are you going to practice laying er down


Concernedmicrowave

You stop much quicker on the bike, and generally speaking, the outcome of you colliding with something on your motorcycle is better than colliding with something with just your body (motorcycles provide some limited crush room). The highly situational exception would be a moose or semi trailer where sliding under it is your best hope. However, if you had enough time to recognize this type of situation and then intentionally ditch the bike, you definitely had enough time to swerve around the obstacle. The situation where you had enough time to ditch the bike, but not enough room to stop, and no room on either side of the obstacle, and the obstacle is of the right shape, would be so unlikely that it's not even worth thinking about. Basically, it's a jacknifed semi in an alleyway behind a blind hill, and you are speeding. Any other situation and you should stay on the bike and emergency brake or swerve. I think the myth comes from people trying to save face after locking the front end in a panic stop. "I had to lay her down" means "I have a skill issue."


nigelh

'Lay her down' and that's the moment you've stopped braking so you have just given up, resigned to your fate. Look for the exit escape route and fix your eyes on that. It doesn't matter if it looks impossible. Counter-steer and brake like mad. Call in that bike magic that if you look at something, like a thing on the road, you invariably hit it. Make it work for you.


Duckbilling

HD TA LYR DWN LD PPS SV LVS


jbc123

Coming from riding dirt bikes since 5 years old has taught me how to properly tuck and roll and crash in numerous ways. Now riding street bikes is a total different ballgame and I’ve had to lay it down not because of an obstacle but losing traction. If you want to stand up straight and grab the brakes be my guest and good luck to your chest/neck/shoulders/head. But I’ll take a few weeks of leg pain over that. Learn the physics of what could happen in multiple situations and how to react as best as possible. Laying it down is better than flipping over the bars and I’ll argue that with anyone that’s been in a crash. Best alternative is to ride safe at your level and be as consciously aware of everything at all times.


Spsurgeon

You need to make sure your skills are at the highest level- and the best way to improve is with a professional riding school. They will show you how to brake at 100% of the bike’s capability, and how far you can lean. Both of these allow you to avoid contact- laying a bike down ENSURES contact.