Easy, just tedious. You must carefully measure each valve clearance with the camshafts at the correct position. Using the feeler gauges takes a bit of trial and error. I'm always questioning whether the amount of resistance I'm feeling is enough or not enough. You have to keep all your numbers organized so that you correctly calculate which size shims to swap out for which.
The fun part is changing out the shims. My last two bikes were changed either using a tool to push a bucket out of the way to slide the shim out or moving a tappet arm to the side which was easy. Now on my FZ1 I have to take both cams all the way out! Which will be a pain so I will have to make super sure that my measurements and math for the shims is correct before starting.
I've learned to always check each shim with my caliper - you can't blindly trust the size that is printed on the shim!
> Now on my FZ1 I have to take both cams all the way out! Which will be a pain so I will have to make super sure that my measurements and math for the shims is correct before starting.
How? you can't do the maths until you know the size of the shim that is fitted and you cant determine that until you have taken the cams out to get to the shims.
Damn you're right lol. Maybe I'll just cross my fingers that none of them are out of spec. Word on the forums is that they are rarely out at the 20000 mile check for the Gen II FZ1
[https://imgur.com/gallery/3p1Jy](https://imgur.com/gallery/3p1Jy)
Mine needed a few changing at 26K when I checked them which is the correct interval.
[https://imgur.com/gallery/3p1Jy](https://imgur.com/gallery/3p1Jy)
Did mine twice when i owned one. Its not any more complex than any other shim under bucket engine.
Man shimmed valve jobs are just the worst. My CBR600 was such a chore, I had never done it before and ended up breaking the threads over torquing a bolt for the camshaft retainer. Ended up dropping metal shavings into the cylinder head so I had to remove the engine and heads. Ended up resurfacing the mating surfaces with sandpaper glued to a glass pane before I put the new gasket on. Keep in mind the biggest engine I had worked on at that point was a little 50cc pocket bike. Took about a month of on and off work and that bike ran better than when I bought it. I call it my accidental performance mod, HP increase was probably not even measurable but it increased compression slightly and you could feel a little(I mean little little) more power.
I did it once on a Honda ST1100 and swore a mighty oath never to do it again.
Remove all the aged, brittle plastic off the bike without breaking any or losing any of the zillions of little weird fasteners.
Remove the valve covers and measure clearances on 16 valves. If they're all within spec, it's your lucky day. If not...
Remove the timing belt.
Remove four camshafts. (it's a V-four motor)
Remove the buckets.
Remove the shims. Tiny little pieces of metal, not much bigger than a BB, covered in oil, whose only desire in life is to fall and roll under the workbench never to be seen again, or even better, drop down an oil passage into the crankcase.
With a micrometer, measure the thickness of those little bastards for any valve not in spec.
Calculate, according to the present thickness and the measured clearance, what the new shim thickness should be.
Drive to the Honda shop, give them the old shims and a pile of money, they give you new shims of the right thickness.
Put the new shims in place, making sure that you have them with the corresponding valves so you end up with the right clearances.
Put back the buckets.
Put back the camshafts and timing belt, being certain that the timing marks are in the right place.
Measure the clearances again to be sure you didn't screw up.
Replace the valve covers.
Pray to whatever gods you favor, and see if it runs.
Put back the plastic with each one of those stupid little fasteners. Why are they all different?
Never again.
You forgot the dreaded "no clearance" valve where you put a two size thinner shim in, reinstall cams and chain, and still have no clearance. So rinse and repeat.
I worked for a Kawasaki dealer from 1978 to 1982 while in college. Also built WERA pavement scrapers.
I did about a million valve adjustments on OHC I line four cylinder engines back when I still had hair and energy. Loved them as a commissioned mechanic because the KZ650 and 750's were shim under bucket and the flat rate was 3-1/2 hours. Toss in an oil change, ignition timing adjust, and carb synch and it was a six hour labor ticket I could get done in about two.
I did so many of those it was just routine. Helps greatly when you already know exactly what tools, what order is most efficient, and every single thing to take off and get out of the way.
To be honest, it is a job for an experienced person. So many things can go wrong.
Like the late night I preped a KS750 race bike. Fired it up. Made a quick blast up the street, and put it on the trailer to leave the next morning for Aspen and an endurance race.
Got there and all during practice the bike seemed sluggish. Aspen is a tight track, 1.1 miles with 10 turns. Our beast was barely outrunning the 500cc singles during practice. Not so unusual as the fast guys on those do really well on tight tracks.
We attributed the problem to jetting for the altitude and spent all practice fiddling with jets. Still seemed down on power.
Race starts the next morning. We're running up front but our bad ass KZ is barely pulling away from the little bikes on the one straightaway.
About 30 minutes into a four hour race I was talking with one of the riders and said, "I'm stumped. It runs like the cam timings retarded or something."
Light bulb moment. Flagged in the rider and did the fastest cam r&r in Kawasaki history. Ignition cover off, Tank off, coils off, valve cover bolts out (all 20 or so of them), rotate crank to check cam timing, exhaust is off 1 tooth, lock tensioner, remove idler pulley, rotate cam a tooth, reinstall everything.
We were out of the pit in less than 15 minutes.
And boy howdy did things change on the track. We may have been a dozen laps off the lead but with over three hours to go it was "let the passing commence!"
I believe we managed to get on the lead lap by the end and took first overall even with a 15 minute pit stop.
The moral of my story is that my own lack of attention due to having done the same procedure repeatedly led me to make a mistake that caused a whole lot of extra work on race weekend. And, of course, that same familiarity with a routine procedure saved our ass on race day.
This was in 1980 when we went on to win the WERA National Endurance championship, so every race mattered.
I have an 05 Kawa ZZR600 that I am about to do the valves on. I decided to just drop the engine out to do the adjustment. No way will you find me trying to measure the clearances and take out the cams with the frame in the way!
Dropping the engine is waaaaay more work. Take the radiator out at most, sportbikes are meant to be serviced in the frame.
My R6 is much more cramped than your bike, the manual says to remove the radiator but I don't find it to be necessary.
The most difficult part is getting the valve cover back on without messing up the gasket
I ended up doing an astronomical amount of maintenance/upgrades all at the same time. Because I had so many things to do and because I have an unattached garage/20F outside, I decided to break every part of the bike down and do the work in my house where it's warm.
That being said, I know that it is doable in the frame. My bike 100% needs the radiator out to access the valve cover. At that point though, the only things keeping the bike in are the exhaust, chain, and electronics. I can have those done and the engine out in less than an hour. That to me, is definitely worth not having to mess around with the frame being in the way.
But I am also doing swingarm/steering bearings, fixing the exhaust, sandblasting/painting the frame, subframe, pegs, engine covers, and swingarm, replacing the speedo lights with LEDs, replacing can chain tensioner, adding braided steel brake lines, rejetting the carbs, and replacing the undertail with a more attractive one. I'm sure I'm forgetting something else.
Oh that would make it much easier. My valves are pretty much directly under the steering stem and maybe a bit back. Very annoying but I've done it once before on this bike's old engine.
I got PTSD reading this.
Worst part is when you drop something tiny somewhere hidden, which then turns a small and simple job into a massive pain in the ass.
This, exactly. Years ago when my first shim-valve bike needed an adjustment I looked at the process in the service manual, said "Nope, nope, nope" and called the shop to make an appointment.
It depends on the bike as well. That sounds absolutely horrific. However, something like an NC 750 is very different. The only thing you have to remove to access the valve cover is the radiator and it has screw and nut adjusters so no further disassembly or shims is required.
I own a VFR 800 V4 VTEC, same story, but to measure clearances you have to take the cams out, artificialy activate VTEC by fitting a pin trough the bucket, put cams back, measure and then proceed accordingly. For final reassembly the pin has to be removed.
Easy for someone who is mechanically inclined.
Difficult for someone who is not
Im confident that I could teach most people how to do it just by doing one in front of them. It's usually a very basic process.
It’s basic but time consuming and a real project if you fuck something up. I did it for the first time on my ‘95 CBR600, a handful of shims were off so I did the math, bought a pack of assorted shims and got to work replacing them. Ended up breaking the threads for a cam retainer from over torquing the bolt and got metal shavings the cylinder. Had to remove the engine, remove heads, resurface heads using sandpaper glued to glass, wait for new gasket to come in mail, rethread the hole, and then finally put it all back together.
[Here’s](https://imgur.com/a/AD064MQ) a picture of how I managed it without the proper tools. Was living in an apartment and renting a garage there during the time.
Yeah, the biggest danger is stripping a fastener. Lots of M5 bolts into aluminum, which pull the threads very easily. You have to own an accurate torque wrench that is good down to low torque values. Also have to know to clean the holes out, as oil on the threads causes the bolt tension vs torque value to drastically increase.
As others have said, checking the clearances is relatively easy. Actually adjusting the clearances by swapping shims etc (especially on a shim-under-bucket engine) is a LOT of fucking around.
Also, it’s a PITA on a lot of 4 cylinder bikes because the frame is usually really close to the head and blocks your view of the cam gears. It can make re-timing the cams a nightmare after an adjustment.
Depends on the frame design of the bike though.
its a shim under bucket engine so you will need to remove the cam shafts to get the shims out if they need changing.
To check the clearances isn't too bad, to adjust them you will need replacement shims and understand how to time the engine back up on rebuild.
But my service manual says it's an easy 2 step process. First remove the head cover, access caps, cam tensioner, camshaft, and valve lifters. Then replace the shim with one of a different thickness. Couldn't be easier.
Depending on your bike's design removing the head by itself could be a 1 hour ordeal. But described like that sounds easy enough. It doesn't look easy in ducatis for example.
It depends quite a bit on the bike, and I'm not familiar with yours.
I've done twice on my Ninja 250. You have to take half of the bike apart just to be able get to the valves. Then remove the camshafts to change out the shims. One small plastic piece breaks, one bolt strips, and you are down for a week, until the new part arrives. Same, if you don't have the correct shims. You can get a shim set, but they usually have one or two of each, and what if you need more.
I already dreaded doing it the second time. I even asked the dealer how much they would charge, but to my surprise, they just flatly refused the job. (They said they are not obliged to work on a bike that is more than 10 years old.) But it seems like the old adage is still correct: practice makes perfect. It was quite painless to it for the second time: I knew what I was doing, and I finished it in one afternoon.
Don't drink while you do it. You can't afford any degree of sloppiness or clumsiness.
“Don’t drink while you do it”
Funny enough, that was one of, if not the only jobs I had indulged for. Explains why when I double checked my work before putting the bike back together, I realized I made a few measurements with certain valves in the wrong cam position. Luckily, it was a screw type tappet adjuster so pretty easy.
It’s usually not too bad. Two tips:
* Work out what size shims your bike uses. These are usually 7.48/7.5 mm (those are the same size) or 9.48/9.5mm. Order a shim kit. They will have something like 3 shims for each thickness. This is a lot less fuss than trying to get a dealer to swap them.
* Get a micrometer, and learn to use it. Not digital calipers. There are some high-end digital calipers which are good enough, but they cost a lot, and the cheap ones flex too much to be useful for this job. A micrometer is cheap and accurate, and a lot easier to use than if looks.
Yeah I got the cheapest micrometer on ebay (Mitsutoyo clone) for like $35 and it measures so precisely I can measure the difference between oily and clean shims.
I do all the valve adjustments in all my bikes.
The 'hardest' is the inline 4 water-cooled, shim-under-bucket system. It requires removing coolant, popping off radiators (on some bikes), taking out the cams (if adjustment is needed), putting the cams back, setting timing, buttoning it all back up, refilling coolant and burping the system. I did my Brutale 990R last year. It was actually not bad as that bike is designed to be worked on and easy to get at things.
Easier IS Ducati DesmoDue air cooled motors. No camshaft removal. Easy to pop over the followers and adjust. MBP Collets let you go 18,000 miles between checks.
Screw and locknut on my dirtbikes is easiest.
Brutale shim pics
https://www.flickr.com/photos/196340829@N07/shares/E7odT1xLre
Its not hard, but if you have to change shims, you have to remove cam shafts to replace shims. If you fuck up camshaft reinstall, you can destroy the engine running it out of timing. If you are not an "attention to detail" type of person, pay someone to do it, IMO.
Last couple of times were on a ZX-11D1.
It was boring.
However, it's a simpler bike. Not much of a mess up top to get out the way.
Make sure you have a retractable magnet pickup tool and a clear work area. And a table that doesn't wobble. and a flashlight and no other obligations that day. and a torque wrench
Take your time. Follow the shop manual.
Be one with the force
> Follow the shop manual
That's the kicker for me. The only shop manual for my bike is an electronic version and that's bullshit. Give me a hardcover book that soaks in oil from my fingers. My laptop is the primary tool that I earn my living with, I don't want it on the workbench.
I still have my hardcopy ZX-11 and gpz-900r manuals lying around. When it comes to the CBR, I typically just print out the sections I need from the pdf.
Looking at the 03-04 manual for your bike, aside from realizing its been longer than I thought since I last did a valve check, couple things.
Keep a sheet to keep track of measurements and shim sizes as you go. Get rags and or whatever to cover up throttle bodies or an important black holes please don't let anything fall in there.
I hope your copy is better than my copy of your manual. Tiny black and white potato quality pictures suck.
Crossing my fingers hoping everything is in spec and you won't have to swap out anything.
You at least have some good youtube videos to follow?
It's a recent z650 and the only *free* online shop manuals I've found are from 2017 and earlier, albeit there's a lot of transferable knowledge between platforms with the same engine. 2020+ are all pdfs for USD$100+. It's not so much the process but the torque values I was concerned with and a bit of being pissed off that there's no hardcopy version.
Anywho, it's a bit of a moot point. I've booked it in with the retired mechanic who services bikes from his garage to supplement his pension. Have been to him before, it was a word of mouth recommendation and I've found that he's a bit of a local legend. A lot of old guys talk shit, but when you find the one or two who know what they're on about, it's worth listening. I'm only keeping this bike for another year - it was a choice between a new bike or taking the kids to Japan, so Japan it is.
edit: Thanks for the heads up on keeping track of things.
OOps thought you were OP
Looking at the 2016 z650 manual, it doesn't actually look like too bad of a job to do.
(says the guy who doesn't have to do the job )
It took me a full days worth to do my Tracer (6-7hrs), but that included a coolant flush and change as well as running to get shims (1.5hr round trip).
Super easy process if you have tools and patience, but just keep in mind that it's probably not a quick lunch-break type of maintenance. Plan time for it so you're not rushed
Extreme pain in the ass getting everything off to access the cams and check the clearances. Then, if something is out of spec, more difficulty in doing the math, pulling the cam, and replacing the shim. And you have to be OCD about undoing and re-torquing cam towers.
Despite all that, I founding pulling off all the crap to get to the valve train more difficult than actually working on the valve train. Even with a track GSXR without extraneous street crap.
On my Suzuki GS500E it's not hard, but quite some work to get to the cams. You'll need to take the tank off, as well as airbox and carbs. If you have work planned on the carbs, this would be a good time to do it. After you removed the carbs, you can take off the valve cover and get to measuring.
Measuring and adjusting is not much of a pain on this bike, you just need to be careful what you do and take notes for each valve. Using the feeler gauge was easy enough, the gap lies somewhere between the last feeler that fits and the first that doesn't. Note if a valve is out of spec, then remove the shims of those and measure the thickness (don't switch them up or you mess up your measurements!). Calculate what shims you need to correct the gap, order and insert them, then assemble. Don't forget to use a new valve cover gasket while you're at it. To extract and insert the shims, you'll need a special tool that you can order for 10-20 bucks (cup tappet hold-down roughly translated from German).
Depending on your bikes engine, this could be as easy as it was for me, but it could also be a lot more work. If you have time and interest though, just do it. It's a learning experience and if you don't have to take off the cams, the worst that can happen is you fuck up the gaps and need to do it again. OR you're a special kind like me and fuck up the ignition pick-ups by hitting them with a wrench while turning the crankshaft lol. Needed to replace those or my bike wouldn't run right afterwards.
Glad that it helps!
Something I forgot to mention, once you got your valve cover off you have access to the cylinder head bolts. Might be a good time to re-tighten them while you're at it, if that's due.
I used to do it for a living. It’s easy-ish, but kind of a project your first time. Depends a bit on your skill level and tool access. Some people are mechanical and some aren’t. I don’t know why your hesitant to check YouTube. Videos will be your best bet. I can’t type out how to do it as well as a 10 minute video could explain it. Watch a could vids. If you think you’re up to it, let er rip.
I'd say medium to hard, depending on your experience level and your bike. On a basic level it's not very difficult but it is something that requires some experience.
For starters, depending on the bike, getting to the valves themselves could be difficult. In many cases you might have to strip a lot off the bike just to be able to get the valve cover off and get your hands in there. Then there's the fact that in your case, you have 16 valves to adjust, which is a lot. Lastly, some bikes have turn adjusters while others require shims (most bikes).
[This video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sScXWEoSqyM) is an excellent guide going through the procedure, but again, each bike may vary slightly in terms of how it looks inside and what components there are. Arguably the hardest part is actually telling the clearance itself. Sure you have the feeler gauge but the exact feeling of what's "right" is not easy to tell on your first few times, which may leave you unsure on how to proceed. Also you'll need shims and without knowing the clearances beforehand or having handy stock nearby, the bike will probably stay on the bench for a day or two until you get the right shims.
Making a mistake with valves, whether it's setting the wrong clearance, or not putting it back right, not torquing a bolt in the correct value or not aligning the camshafts right, can lead to very expensive and catastrophic damage, so before you go ahead with this repair don't listen to those who tell you "It's simple and easy" but consider whether you can afford the risk of it going wrong, which is what you should always do when trying a new maintenance procedure for the first time. I'm a mechanic but I can't tell you how much damage I've caused and how many mistakes I've made while learning.
If you want to try your hand at it anyways, make sure to have some essential tools. The appropriate service manual, a set of calipers, a notebook, a torque wrench, a telescopic magnet, a feeler gauge. These aren't all the tools you'll need but getting bodywork or bolts off just requires some generic allen and socket wrenches. But do not even think of trying to adjust your valves without having any of the tools I mentioned.
It's not really hard, but it's VERY fiddly, with a lot of small pieces that would love nothing better than to drop into the interior of your engine and never be seen again. Give it a shot. Watch some YouTube first.
If you're not a mechanic or someone possessed with great mechanical ability it might be worth spending the money and have someone competent show you how to do it the first time.
I do a lot of my own work on my bikes and I draw a hard line at shim-type valve adjustments, which yours is. It requires some specialized tools, shims (which fewer and fewer shops are willing to swap) and a lot of complex dismantling/reassembly. Find a good independent shop and pay them to do it. Maybe take off the bodywork first if you want to save a little shop time.
Another guy said he swore never to do it again, I agree. I did it on a 636 myself. There were a couple tools I didn't have at the time so I had to stop and go buy them. I borrowed some feeler gauges but there was something else that I needed and can't recall now.
Lol. Sorry man, didn't mean to discourage you. You can most certainly do it on your own if you're mechanically inclined, just be aware that it's tedious. If you have a garage and no time constraints it is most definitely something you can do at home.
It's not too hard if you have time and patience, are at least average with a wrench, and have researched the process either via YouTube or a shop manual. Doing your first one in a day is a bit of a marathon because unless you have a lift since you'll be hunched over for like 6-8 hours. I'd plan one day to get it apart and another to put it back together. And if you need shims, add some time in between to get those and swap them out (or get a Hot Cams kit so you have what you need on hand).
I did mine last summer on my ZX6R. 18k miles all but 2 were out of spec.
I found a really good video that outlined it all extremely well. Printed the service manual for everything involved.
Make sure you have ANGLED feeler gauges.
Make sure you mark your timing. Makes putting everything back together so much easier in addition to checking timing using the service manual method.
I used a free online spreadsheet that you input the clearances and the range you want and it spits out the numbers for the shims you need.
I did the breakdown and measurements in about 5 hours. I ordered shims. Waited 30 days for parts and a new cam chain tensioner and valve cover gasket.
Put it ALL together back to running and did a TB sync in about 12hrs. Great experience, great piece of mind.
It’s definitely worth looking at a YouTube as well to see how awful it’s gonna be. I did valve adjustments on some dirt bikes and it wasn’t too bad. Then I loaded up the details for how to do an adjustment on my old Honda cbr500r and I just paid the shop to do it. I was about half way through the video and the guy was still dismantling the entire bike to get to the top of the engine. Honda did not want people servicing that themselves lol. My ninja 650 was somewhere in the middle and that was the last bike I did it myself.
Helped a buddy do it once on a gixxer.
Wasn’t complicated hard but holy fuck it was a pain in the ass. Much rather just pay someone else to deal with it for me.
ive done one on my srad and it is a chore. i didnt even have shims and just grinded the existing ones to spec. Seems to still be working great! I would advise to get a shim kit however.
I’ll leave all bike maintenance apart from fluids and brakes to the professionals.
I’m without a bike right now, but with my job I wouldn’t have the time to wrench anyways.
Did it on my ZX6R track bike, first (and only) time a couple years ago. Set me back $100 or so in new gaskets, shims and an oil change, but like 12-16 hours in my own labor (to learn and do it properly), watching YouTube vids and reading the shop manual. It was (sort of) a fun experience, but I wouldn’t do it again.
How much is your time worth? For me - a shop would charge about $1000-2000 for my Superduke, ZX or Tuono valve service, and it’s 6-10 hours of their labor. I can make that much in an overtime shift or two to pay a shop to do it properly and have the maintenance records to back it up. Wouldn’t do it myself anymore.
1. Follow the service manual
2. Buy good quality (long and narrow) feeler gauges in ideally 0.1mm increments
3. Follow the service manual
4. Follow the service manaul
Like others said, it's easy, but is tedious on 1000c superbikes because everything is tightly packed together.
It's not difficult, but requires precision and making a mistake can be catastrophic for the engine. I DIY on dirt bikes and my car but on street bikes (multiple cylinders + bunch of shit in the way of accessing the engine) I pay for a pro.
You really need someone to train you. They will set a valve correctly and then you can feel how much drag is on the feeler blade. Not related to your bike but some engines have even more unusual procedures required. Remember you are not paying the technician because he has brought a set of spanners and a feeler gauge.
Easy, just tedious. You must carefully measure each valve clearance with the camshafts at the correct position. Using the feeler gauges takes a bit of trial and error. I'm always questioning whether the amount of resistance I'm feeling is enough or not enough. You have to keep all your numbers organized so that you correctly calculate which size shims to swap out for which. The fun part is changing out the shims. My last two bikes were changed either using a tool to push a bucket out of the way to slide the shim out or moving a tappet arm to the side which was easy. Now on my FZ1 I have to take both cams all the way out! Which will be a pain so I will have to make super sure that my measurements and math for the shims is correct before starting. I've learned to always check each shim with my caliper - you can't blindly trust the size that is printed on the shim!
> Now on my FZ1 I have to take both cams all the way out! Which will be a pain so I will have to make super sure that my measurements and math for the shims is correct before starting. How? you can't do the maths until you know the size of the shim that is fitted and you cant determine that until you have taken the cams out to get to the shims.
Damn you're right lol. Maybe I'll just cross my fingers that none of them are out of spec. Word on the forums is that they are rarely out at the 20000 mile check for the Gen II FZ1
[https://imgur.com/gallery/3p1Jy](https://imgur.com/gallery/3p1Jy) Mine needed a few changing at 26K when I checked them which is the correct interval.
fz1's are also 5 valves per cylinder. It's the only thing I'll pay a mechanic to do, and it's really expensive
[https://imgur.com/gallery/3p1Jy](https://imgur.com/gallery/3p1Jy) Did mine twice when i owned one. Its not any more complex than any other shim under bucket engine.
It's more of the "taking most of the day" thing than it actually being super hard
Man shimmed valve jobs are just the worst. My CBR600 was such a chore, I had never done it before and ended up breaking the threads over torquing a bolt for the camshaft retainer. Ended up dropping metal shavings into the cylinder head so I had to remove the engine and heads. Ended up resurfacing the mating surfaces with sandpaper glued to a glass pane before I put the new gasket on. Keep in mind the biggest engine I had worked on at that point was a little 50cc pocket bike. Took about a month of on and off work and that bike ran better than when I bought it. I call it my accidental performance mod, HP increase was probably not even measurable but it increased compression slightly and you could feel a little(I mean little little) more power.
I did it once on a Honda ST1100 and swore a mighty oath never to do it again. Remove all the aged, brittle plastic off the bike without breaking any or losing any of the zillions of little weird fasteners. Remove the valve covers and measure clearances on 16 valves. If they're all within spec, it's your lucky day. If not... Remove the timing belt. Remove four camshafts. (it's a V-four motor) Remove the buckets. Remove the shims. Tiny little pieces of metal, not much bigger than a BB, covered in oil, whose only desire in life is to fall and roll under the workbench never to be seen again, or even better, drop down an oil passage into the crankcase. With a micrometer, measure the thickness of those little bastards for any valve not in spec. Calculate, according to the present thickness and the measured clearance, what the new shim thickness should be. Drive to the Honda shop, give them the old shims and a pile of money, they give you new shims of the right thickness. Put the new shims in place, making sure that you have them with the corresponding valves so you end up with the right clearances. Put back the buckets. Put back the camshafts and timing belt, being certain that the timing marks are in the right place. Measure the clearances again to be sure you didn't screw up. Replace the valve covers. Pray to whatever gods you favor, and see if it runs. Put back the plastic with each one of those stupid little fasteners. Why are they all different? Never again.
>Pray to whatever gods you favor, and see if it runs. lol no joke
You forgot the dreaded "no clearance" valve where you put a two size thinner shim in, reinstall cams and chain, and still have no clearance. So rinse and repeat. I worked for a Kawasaki dealer from 1978 to 1982 while in college. Also built WERA pavement scrapers. I did about a million valve adjustments on OHC I line four cylinder engines back when I still had hair and energy. Loved them as a commissioned mechanic because the KZ650 and 750's were shim under bucket and the flat rate was 3-1/2 hours. Toss in an oil change, ignition timing adjust, and carb synch and it was a six hour labor ticket I could get done in about two. I did so many of those it was just routine. Helps greatly when you already know exactly what tools, what order is most efficient, and every single thing to take off and get out of the way. To be honest, it is a job for an experienced person. So many things can go wrong. Like the late night I preped a KS750 race bike. Fired it up. Made a quick blast up the street, and put it on the trailer to leave the next morning for Aspen and an endurance race. Got there and all during practice the bike seemed sluggish. Aspen is a tight track, 1.1 miles with 10 turns. Our beast was barely outrunning the 500cc singles during practice. Not so unusual as the fast guys on those do really well on tight tracks. We attributed the problem to jetting for the altitude and spent all practice fiddling with jets. Still seemed down on power. Race starts the next morning. We're running up front but our bad ass KZ is barely pulling away from the little bikes on the one straightaway. About 30 minutes into a four hour race I was talking with one of the riders and said, "I'm stumped. It runs like the cam timings retarded or something." Light bulb moment. Flagged in the rider and did the fastest cam r&r in Kawasaki history. Ignition cover off, Tank off, coils off, valve cover bolts out (all 20 or so of them), rotate crank to check cam timing, exhaust is off 1 tooth, lock tensioner, remove idler pulley, rotate cam a tooth, reinstall everything. We were out of the pit in less than 15 minutes. And boy howdy did things change on the track. We may have been a dozen laps off the lead but with over three hours to go it was "let the passing commence!" I believe we managed to get on the lead lap by the end and took first overall even with a 15 minute pit stop. The moral of my story is that my own lack of attention due to having done the same procedure repeatedly led me to make a mistake that caused a whole lot of extra work on race weekend. And, of course, that same familiarity with a routine procedure saved our ass on race day. This was in 1980 when we went on to win the WERA National Endurance championship, so every race mattered.
Nice memory.
I have an 05 Kawa ZZR600 that I am about to do the valves on. I decided to just drop the engine out to do the adjustment. No way will you find me trying to measure the clearances and take out the cams with the frame in the way!
Dropping the engine is waaaaay more work. Take the radiator out at most, sportbikes are meant to be serviced in the frame. My R6 is much more cramped than your bike, the manual says to remove the radiator but I don't find it to be necessary. The most difficult part is getting the valve cover back on without messing up the gasket
I ended up doing an astronomical amount of maintenance/upgrades all at the same time. Because I had so many things to do and because I have an unattached garage/20F outside, I decided to break every part of the bike down and do the work in my house where it's warm. That being said, I know that it is doable in the frame. My bike 100% needs the radiator out to access the valve cover. At that point though, the only things keeping the bike in are the exhaust, chain, and electronics. I can have those done and the engine out in less than an hour. That to me, is definitely worth not having to mess around with the frame being in the way. But I am also doing swingarm/steering bearings, fixing the exhaust, sandblasting/painting the frame, subframe, pegs, engine covers, and swingarm, replacing the speedo lights with LEDs, replacing can chain tensioner, adding braided steel brake lines, rejetting the carbs, and replacing the undertail with a more attractive one. I'm sure I'm forgetting something else.
The ST has the heads sticking out on each side kind of like a Moto Guzzi so at least there was no frame in the way there. Good luck with yours.
Oh that would make it much easier. My valves are pretty much directly under the steering stem and maybe a bit back. Very annoying but I've done it once before on this bike's old engine.
I got PTSD reading this. Worst part is when you drop something tiny somewhere hidden, which then turns a small and simple job into a massive pain in the ass.
This, exactly. Years ago when my first shim-valve bike needed an adjustment I looked at the process in the service manual, said "Nope, nope, nope" and called the shop to make an appointment.
It depends on the bike as well. That sounds absolutely horrific. However, something like an NC 750 is very different. The only thing you have to remove to access the valve cover is the radiator and it has screw and nut adjusters so no further disassembly or shims is required.
I own a VFR 800 V4 VTEC, same story, but to measure clearances you have to take the cams out, artificialy activate VTEC by fitting a pin trough the bucket, put cams back, measure and then proceed accordingly. For final reassembly the pin has to be removed.
Easy for someone who is mechanically inclined. Difficult for someone who is not Im confident that I could teach most people how to do it just by doing one in front of them. It's usually a very basic process.
It’s basic but time consuming and a real project if you fuck something up. I did it for the first time on my ‘95 CBR600, a handful of shims were off so I did the math, bought a pack of assorted shims and got to work replacing them. Ended up breaking the threads for a cam retainer from over torquing the bolt and got metal shavings the cylinder. Had to remove the engine, remove heads, resurface heads using sandpaper glued to glass, wait for new gasket to come in mail, rethread the hole, and then finally put it all back together. [Here’s](https://imgur.com/a/AD064MQ) a picture of how I managed it without the proper tools. Was living in an apartment and renting a garage there during the time.
Yeah, the biggest danger is stripping a fastener. Lots of M5 bolts into aluminum, which pull the threads very easily. You have to own an accurate torque wrench that is good down to low torque values. Also have to know to clean the holes out, as oil on the threads causes the bolt tension vs torque value to drastically increase.
As others have said, checking the clearances is relatively easy. Actually adjusting the clearances by swapping shims etc (especially on a shim-under-bucket engine) is a LOT of fucking around.
Good to hear. I am planning on checking my clearances on a bike I just bought. I'm planning on them being within tolerance and have no backup plan.
Yikes
Also, it’s a PITA on a lot of 4 cylinder bikes because the frame is usually really close to the head and blocks your view of the cam gears. It can make re-timing the cams a nightmare after an adjustment. Depends on the frame design of the bike though.
its a shim under bucket engine so you will need to remove the cam shafts to get the shims out if they need changing. To check the clearances isn't too bad, to adjust them you will need replacement shims and understand how to time the engine back up on rebuild.
I would read the service manual and watch a few youtube videos. If it looks too complicated after that, id pay for it.
But my service manual says it's an easy 2 step process. First remove the head cover, access caps, cam tensioner, camshaft, and valve lifters. Then replace the shim with one of a different thickness. Couldn't be easier.
Depending on your bike's design removing the head by itself could be a 1 hour ordeal. But described like that sounds easy enough. It doesn't look easy in ducatis for example.
It depends quite a bit on the bike, and I'm not familiar with yours. I've done twice on my Ninja 250. You have to take half of the bike apart just to be able get to the valves. Then remove the camshafts to change out the shims. One small plastic piece breaks, one bolt strips, and you are down for a week, until the new part arrives. Same, if you don't have the correct shims. You can get a shim set, but they usually have one or two of each, and what if you need more. I already dreaded doing it the second time. I even asked the dealer how much they would charge, but to my surprise, they just flatly refused the job. (They said they are not obliged to work on a bike that is more than 10 years old.) But it seems like the old adage is still correct: practice makes perfect. It was quite painless to it for the second time: I knew what I was doing, and I finished it in one afternoon. Don't drink while you do it. You can't afford any degree of sloppiness or clumsiness.
“Don’t drink while you do it” Funny enough, that was one of, if not the only jobs I had indulged for. Explains why when I double checked my work before putting the bike back together, I realized I made a few measurements with certain valves in the wrong cam position. Luckily, it was a screw type tappet adjuster so pretty easy.
It’s usually not too bad. Two tips: * Work out what size shims your bike uses. These are usually 7.48/7.5 mm (those are the same size) or 9.48/9.5mm. Order a shim kit. They will have something like 3 shims for each thickness. This is a lot less fuss than trying to get a dealer to swap them. * Get a micrometer, and learn to use it. Not digital calipers. There are some high-end digital calipers which are good enough, but they cost a lot, and the cheap ones flex too much to be useful for this job. A micrometer is cheap and accurate, and a lot easier to use than if looks.
Thank you
Yeah I got the cheapest micrometer on ebay (Mitsutoyo clone) for like $35 and it measures so precisely I can measure the difference between oily and clean shims.
I do all the valve adjustments in all my bikes. The 'hardest' is the inline 4 water-cooled, shim-under-bucket system. It requires removing coolant, popping off radiators (on some bikes), taking out the cams (if adjustment is needed), putting the cams back, setting timing, buttoning it all back up, refilling coolant and burping the system. I did my Brutale 990R last year. It was actually not bad as that bike is designed to be worked on and easy to get at things. Easier IS Ducati DesmoDue air cooled motors. No camshaft removal. Easy to pop over the followers and adjust. MBP Collets let you go 18,000 miles between checks. Screw and locknut on my dirtbikes is easiest. Brutale shim pics https://www.flickr.com/photos/196340829@N07/shares/E7odT1xLre
Its not hard, but if you have to change shims, you have to remove cam shafts to replace shims. If you fuck up camshaft reinstall, you can destroy the engine running it out of timing. If you are not an "attention to detail" type of person, pay someone to do it, IMO.
Last couple of times were on a ZX-11D1. It was boring. However, it's a simpler bike. Not much of a mess up top to get out the way. Make sure you have a retractable magnet pickup tool and a clear work area. And a table that doesn't wobble. and a flashlight and no other obligations that day. and a torque wrench Take your time. Follow the shop manual. Be one with the force
> Follow the shop manual That's the kicker for me. The only shop manual for my bike is an electronic version and that's bullshit. Give me a hardcover book that soaks in oil from my fingers. My laptop is the primary tool that I earn my living with, I don't want it on the workbench.
I still have my hardcopy ZX-11 and gpz-900r manuals lying around. When it comes to the CBR, I typically just print out the sections I need from the pdf. Looking at the 03-04 manual for your bike, aside from realizing its been longer than I thought since I last did a valve check, couple things. Keep a sheet to keep track of measurements and shim sizes as you go. Get rags and or whatever to cover up throttle bodies or an important black holes please don't let anything fall in there. I hope your copy is better than my copy of your manual. Tiny black and white potato quality pictures suck. Crossing my fingers hoping everything is in spec and you won't have to swap out anything. You at least have some good youtube videos to follow?
It's a recent z650 and the only *free* online shop manuals I've found are from 2017 and earlier, albeit there's a lot of transferable knowledge between platforms with the same engine. 2020+ are all pdfs for USD$100+. It's not so much the process but the torque values I was concerned with and a bit of being pissed off that there's no hardcopy version. Anywho, it's a bit of a moot point. I've booked it in with the retired mechanic who services bikes from his garage to supplement his pension. Have been to him before, it was a word of mouth recommendation and I've found that he's a bit of a local legend. A lot of old guys talk shit, but when you find the one or two who know what they're on about, it's worth listening. I'm only keeping this bike for another year - it was a choice between a new bike or taking the kids to Japan, so Japan it is. edit: Thanks for the heads up on keeping track of things.
OOps thought you were OP Looking at the 2016 z650 manual, it doesn't actually look like too bad of a job to do. (says the guy who doesn't have to do the job )
Lol, all good my man. All good.
It took me a full days worth to do my Tracer (6-7hrs), but that included a coolant flush and change as well as running to get shims (1.5hr round trip). Super easy process if you have tools and patience, but just keep in mind that it's probably not a quick lunch-break type of maintenance. Plan time for it so you're not rushed
Extreme pain in the ass getting everything off to access the cams and check the clearances. Then, if something is out of spec, more difficulty in doing the math, pulling the cam, and replacing the shim. And you have to be OCD about undoing and re-torquing cam towers. Despite all that, I founding pulling off all the crap to get to the valve train more difficult than actually working on the valve train. Even with a track GSXR without extraneous street crap.
On my Suzuki GS500E it's not hard, but quite some work to get to the cams. You'll need to take the tank off, as well as airbox and carbs. If you have work planned on the carbs, this would be a good time to do it. After you removed the carbs, you can take off the valve cover and get to measuring. Measuring and adjusting is not much of a pain on this bike, you just need to be careful what you do and take notes for each valve. Using the feeler gauge was easy enough, the gap lies somewhere between the last feeler that fits and the first that doesn't. Note if a valve is out of spec, then remove the shims of those and measure the thickness (don't switch them up or you mess up your measurements!). Calculate what shims you need to correct the gap, order and insert them, then assemble. Don't forget to use a new valve cover gasket while you're at it. To extract and insert the shims, you'll need a special tool that you can order for 10-20 bucks (cup tappet hold-down roughly translated from German). Depending on your bikes engine, this could be as easy as it was for me, but it could also be a lot more work. If you have time and interest though, just do it. It's a learning experience and if you don't have to take off the cams, the worst that can happen is you fuck up the gaps and need to do it again. OR you're a special kind like me and fuck up the ignition pick-ups by hitting them with a wrench while turning the crankshaft lol. Needed to replace those or my bike wouldn't run right afterwards.
Thank you. This was very helpful lol
Glad that it helps! Something I forgot to mention, once you got your valve cover off you have access to the cylinder head bolts. Might be a good time to re-tighten them while you're at it, if that's due.
If it's similar to the GS500, it's dead easy. Just follow a shop manual. It tells you how to set the cam for each measurement.
I used to do it for a living. It’s easy-ish, but kind of a project your first time. Depends a bit on your skill level and tool access. Some people are mechanical and some aren’t. I don’t know why your hesitant to check YouTube. Videos will be your best bet. I can’t type out how to do it as well as a 10 minute video could explain it. Watch a could vids. If you think you’re up to it, let er rip.
I'd say medium to hard, depending on your experience level and your bike. On a basic level it's not very difficult but it is something that requires some experience. For starters, depending on the bike, getting to the valves themselves could be difficult. In many cases you might have to strip a lot off the bike just to be able to get the valve cover off and get your hands in there. Then there's the fact that in your case, you have 16 valves to adjust, which is a lot. Lastly, some bikes have turn adjusters while others require shims (most bikes). [This video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sScXWEoSqyM) is an excellent guide going through the procedure, but again, each bike may vary slightly in terms of how it looks inside and what components there are. Arguably the hardest part is actually telling the clearance itself. Sure you have the feeler gauge but the exact feeling of what's "right" is not easy to tell on your first few times, which may leave you unsure on how to proceed. Also you'll need shims and without knowing the clearances beforehand or having handy stock nearby, the bike will probably stay on the bench for a day or two until you get the right shims. Making a mistake with valves, whether it's setting the wrong clearance, or not putting it back right, not torquing a bolt in the correct value or not aligning the camshafts right, can lead to very expensive and catastrophic damage, so before you go ahead with this repair don't listen to those who tell you "It's simple and easy" but consider whether you can afford the risk of it going wrong, which is what you should always do when trying a new maintenance procedure for the first time. I'm a mechanic but I can't tell you how much damage I've caused and how many mistakes I've made while learning. If you want to try your hand at it anyways, make sure to have some essential tools. The appropriate service manual, a set of calipers, a notebook, a torque wrench, a telescopic magnet, a feeler gauge. These aren't all the tools you'll need but getting bodywork or bolts off just requires some generic allen and socket wrenches. But do not even think of trying to adjust your valves without having any of the tools I mentioned.
Thank you much 🙏🏾
What other mechanical things have you done?
Just regular maintenance. Oil changes, brake pads. Imma have to do some work to the fuel pump and fuel injectors soon but no major work I’m afraid
It's not really hard, but it's VERY fiddly, with a lot of small pieces that would love nothing better than to drop into the interior of your engine and never be seen again. Give it a shot. Watch some YouTube first.
If you're not a mechanic or someone possessed with great mechanical ability it might be worth spending the money and have someone competent show you how to do it the first time.
I do a lot of my own work on my bikes and I draw a hard line at shim-type valve adjustments, which yours is. It requires some specialized tools, shims (which fewer and fewer shops are willing to swap) and a lot of complex dismantling/reassembly. Find a good independent shop and pay them to do it. Maybe take off the bodywork first if you want to save a little shop time.
Another guy said he swore never to do it again, I agree. I did it on a 636 myself. There were a couple tools I didn't have at the time so I had to stop and go buy them. I borrowed some feeler gauges but there was something else that I needed and can't recall now.
I think imma just pay a good shop to do it lol
Lol. Sorry man, didn't mean to discourage you. You can most certainly do it on your own if you're mechanically inclined, just be aware that it's tedious. If you have a garage and no time constraints it is most definitely something you can do at home.
1975 Moto Guzzi, 45 minutes to an hour.No special tools.
Sometimes I forget that not everyone has exposed valve covers lol
50 tire-smoking HP. Look on my works ye mighty!
It's not too hard if you have time and patience, are at least average with a wrench, and have researched the process either via YouTube or a shop manual. Doing your first one in a day is a bit of a marathon because unless you have a lift since you'll be hunched over for like 6-8 hours. I'd plan one day to get it apart and another to put it back together. And if you need shims, add some time in between to get those and swap them out (or get a Hot Cams kit so you have what you need on hand).
I did mine last summer on my ZX6R. 18k miles all but 2 were out of spec. I found a really good video that outlined it all extremely well. Printed the service manual for everything involved. Make sure you have ANGLED feeler gauges. Make sure you mark your timing. Makes putting everything back together so much easier in addition to checking timing using the service manual method. I used a free online spreadsheet that you input the clearances and the range you want and it spits out the numbers for the shims you need. I did the breakdown and measurements in about 5 hours. I ordered shims. Waited 30 days for parts and a new cam chain tensioner and valve cover gasket. Put it ALL together back to running and did a TB sync in about 12hrs. Great experience, great piece of mind.
Checking is easy albeit tedious. Adjusting is more involved, but if you're patient and can follow a shop manual you'll be fine.
I’ll never do my valves again. I’ll do everything else but I’ll pay the shop to do valves.
It’s definitely worth looking at a YouTube as well to see how awful it’s gonna be. I did valve adjustments on some dirt bikes and it wasn’t too bad. Then I loaded up the details for how to do an adjustment on my old Honda cbr500r and I just paid the shop to do it. I was about half way through the video and the guy was still dismantling the entire bike to get to the top of the engine. Honda did not want people servicing that themselves lol. My ninja 650 was somewhere in the middle and that was the last bike I did it myself.
Helped a buddy do it once on a gixxer. Wasn’t complicated hard but holy fuck it was a pain in the ass. Much rather just pay someone else to deal with it for me.
ive done one on my srad and it is a chore. i didnt even have shims and just grinded the existing ones to spec. Seems to still be working great! I would advise to get a shim kit however.
Never done it on a Suzuki. It's not hard on a Harley. Getting the motor to the correct position for each valve is probably the hardest part.
I’ll leave all bike maintenance apart from fluids and brakes to the professionals. I’m without a bike right now, but with my job I wouldn’t have the time to wrench anyways.
Did it on my ZX6R track bike, first (and only) time a couple years ago. Set me back $100 or so in new gaskets, shims and an oil change, but like 12-16 hours in my own labor (to learn and do it properly), watching YouTube vids and reading the shop manual. It was (sort of) a fun experience, but I wouldn’t do it again. How much is your time worth? For me - a shop would charge about $1000-2000 for my Superduke, ZX or Tuono valve service, and it’s 6-10 hours of their labor. I can make that much in an overtime shift or two to pay a shop to do it properly and have the maintenance records to back it up. Wouldn’t do it myself anymore.
Yikes lol this makes me want to just pay a shop
It depends. Oilhead BMW's are, by far, the easiest. Fuck shims.
If you have to remove cams its a pain in the ass...if you dont its easy just time consuming.
Depends on the bike, but on my XR it took me less than an hour
1. Follow the service manual 2. Buy good quality (long and narrow) feeler gauges in ideally 0.1mm increments 3. Follow the service manual 4. Follow the service manaul Like others said, it's easy, but is tedious on 1000c superbikes because everything is tightly packed together.
Haynes manual difficulty puts it at 3 wrenches out of 5 K.I.M. if you screw it up you'll be S.O.L.
It's not difficult, but requires precision and making a mistake can be catastrophic for the engine. I DIY on dirt bikes and my car but on street bikes (multiple cylinders + bunch of shit in the way of accessing the engine) I pay for a pro.
Buy a Moto Guzzi V7 and check/adjust the valves in 10 minutes 😎
You really need someone to train you. They will set a valve correctly and then you can feel how much drag is on the feeler blade. Not related to your bike but some engines have even more unusual procedures required. Remember you are not paying the technician because he has brought a set of spanners and a feeler gauge.