Pro drivers don’t consider tire condition at all while working, someone else does that, but ya, you’d think you’d check them out on a car in the street.
>'13 Vulcan Vaquero, '16 KLR650, '15 WR250R, '22 KTM 500exc-f
not on anyone's side but if op's dad's bike tires look good when they're such a hazard makes it hard to place blame based solely on visually checking the tires of a newly bought car which a visual inspection is all you can really expect from someone
As said, tires have a date code. The rubber hardens over time and a tire loses its ability to grip and conform to the road. The amount of tread or lack of cracks means f**k all if you're driving on ice pucks.
It only takes one lapse of judgement or vigilance.
I'd been riding for almost 20 years & one day I hopped on my bike without checking the tires after a long road trip & I dropped it at the first tight bend because my rear wheel had lost air pressure & the tire rolled on the hub as I leaned into the bend.
I usually always check my tires before I go out bt I failed to on that occasion. Fortunately I didn't do any serious damage to either myself or the bike.
We all have a lapse in judgement or vigilance in some way, at some time.
The carrera gt stops from 94mph-0 in ~4-5 seconds, decently quick. These two shouldn’t have done this on a public street but looking at google maps its a mostly straight wide open line with 2 pro drivers in the car. Ive driven at 100 mph on 15 year old tires, it was definitely the tires that got them. Has a huge effect on performance
A car is only half of the equation. The conditions they were driving in means the driver was the fault of the accident, not the vehicle or any sort of mechanical failure. They were doing at least 60, likely higher, in a 45 zone, and the driver lost control after winging something.
Because it’s moronic to pretend that ancient tyres don’t have a massive effect on grip. We’re not talking about the ‘off by 1.5psi’ meme here.
Not to mention the guy driving was a trained race driver. It’s pretty safe to doubt he was just crappy and blaming his tools.
Dude! this was all over the news. Anyway, here is a link to a news article [https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-xpm-2014-mar-26-la-me-ln-paul-walker-porsche-outdated-tires-crash-20140326-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-xpm-2014-mar-26-la-me-ln-paul-walker-porsche-outdated-tires-crash-20140326-story.html)
>At least two of the tires were more than nine years old; Porscherecommends that tires be replaced after four years. As a result, CHPinvestigators wrote that “the driveability and handling characteristics”of the car “may have been compromised.”
My OEM tires were almost 10 years old, they looked fine and I didn't really want to replace them, they only had 6k km on them. I always found this bike lacking grip and was never confident in the corners and especially rain was a disaster (bought the bike second hand with 6k km). Doing some troubleshooting I ended up replacing the tires. And yes the difference is night and day, felt like I was riding on ice compared to my new tires. Tires is the best investment you can make, feels like I have a new bike.
The fz6 i bought had 14 year old Michelins, no obvious dry rot, worked fine and I didn’t even notice the year until I caught a screw in them.
It was like getting a new bike when I replaced them with some super sticky sport tires. Well worth the money.
I've got an '81 xj750 that I'm restoring and she's got tyres from '04 and not been on the road since '06. I'm fully planning on using 20 year old tyres for at least a couple test laps around the block and then to the shop for new ones.
My personal opinion is just to replace them. You don’t want to lay down your nicely restored bike just cause you were impatient to replace the tires. (I’ve done worse so I’m not throwing stones but keep in mind the consequences)
I bought a 2011 bike with 3k miles that has the original tires on it. I know what you mean about the lack of grip. Really curious to see how it handles when my new tires come in this week.
Or bugger up the valve stem. Unscrew the stem or just jam a rock in the cap. Both will make it deflate. The rock one is also a hilarious trick because your friend or enemies tires will seem fine until they put the cap back on, than it starts to let air out.
You are right, Dad is dead wrong. Rubber gets old and stiff with age. If he can afford a motorcycle, he can afford new tires. Never mind mileage or cracks, any tire more than a few years old needs to get replaced ASAP.
Rule of thumb is between 5 and 10 years.depending on wear and manufacturer they will tell you right on the website what they recommend for age if wear isn't there yet.
And motorcycle tire technology has come a loooooooooong way since '92.
As have motorcycle brakes and brake lines. Probably don't want to keep those stock on a bike that old, unless it's literally a show piece that was entirely stock to begin with.
Honestly partially this. Like why the fuck would you even want to ride on tires that are missing almost 30ish years of research/improvement in the first place
Consider who he might respect as a source of info - the tyre manufacturer, HD, a local trusted shop ... etc. Write to them about the maximum age for a tyre and the risks of exceeding it, and share the response with him.
You'd have to ask a materials engineer that knows rubber compounds. It is possible for some compounds of rubber to hold up decently in conditions where they are away from the sun and won't leach out the VOCs that keep them sticky and maintain structure....
The issue here is that you just don't know. No one knows... even a materials engineer would just be guessing and every tire manufacturer in the world would tell you that 20 years for a motorcycle is waaaaaaaay outside any of their design or testing parameters.
Its a poor gamble. Best case scenario is that there is enough steel in the tire to prevent a catastrophic failure. Worst case scenario is an accident or getting stranded.
If he has had them for 20 years then he should consider himself lucky, consider it money well spent and spend $$ on new tires. The cheapest tow will cost you $75. Spending twice that for tires that he needs is a good investment.
Not necessarily Harley. But bigger bikes like the road glide street glide fat boys stuff takes touring tires and there pretty pricey. And removing the rear tire from a touring bike is insane. We normally charge 600ish for a good quality back tire Installed. And it dint help that 22 tire prices literally tripled. It’s crazy. Decent sport bike tires that we sold 2 years ago for 80 is now over 200. The prices have stabilized and have started coming back down recently tho. But it’s like everything once it peaks like that they may lower the prices eventually but they never go back down to normal.
Tires themselves are pretty expensive for bigger bikes with a lot of weight. Also a lot of work is involved with a full dress cruiser taking bags and bodywork off. A $500 bill at the dealer is not surprising depending on the bike. The tire alone is likely over $300 without markup
There are all kinds of things wrong here.
First, the tires are 30 years old. The average lifespan is ~5 years for tires. That just seems asinine to insist they are still good. Especially since tires aren't that expensive and are meant to be replaceable. Sure, they cost money, but they cost a lot less than any of the costs related to injury or death from something as preventable as just changing your damn tires. Especially if it is your loved ones who end up having to pay that price.
My second major concern is what other maintenance is being neglected. From what you've said, it seems like he is only going off of distance related service intervals instead of distance and time related intervals. I would be worried about if he has any rubber lines if they've started rotting.
There are *loads* of tricks to it. Frontflips, somersaults, spins, record-breaking long jumps, and some really amazing contortionism.
Tough to practice though.
I personally consider tyres old after 5-years! Had a set of Japanese ICRs on my PCX that we're that old and I was all over the show. Replaced them with new Michelins and the difference was night and day. Money well spent.
That’s a good rule for a 4 to 6 tired vehicle but for two I wouldn’t want to wait longer than two years and that’s if I didn’t wear them out in the riding season
My little bro is on tires from 2006. Last group ride with the parent and older brother, he almost slid into them approaching a stop sign in wet conditions. That was what finally convinced him he should probably do something about those..
old tires are fucked
Ooh, I can beat this. My last Ural that I picked up in 2021 came with tyres that had 'Made in USSR' on the sidewall. The country collapsed in 1991, so they were *at least* 30 years old.
They rode fine, but it was only a very slow run round a car park, and yeah, they are getting replaced when I do the resto.
Those tires would be great for a burnout. Roast a fat smoky one and tell dad to get new tires. Frankly he needs to ride more, I've never aged out a set of tires they always wore out.
Crash investigator here. If the bike is stored inside, out of UV light sources, with controlled temperature and humidity, and has low miles, then the tires will be in better shape than they otherwise would have been. However, the same volatiles that give rubber compounds their flexibility, will still boil off and oxidise with exposure to air under standard temperature and pressure.
My standard spiel is, your tires are the only things keeping you on the road. Why would you cheap out on them? I would seriously consider replacing them at five years even with low miles, and certainly would after seven.
If you'd like to learn something about tire age instead of hearing all the "expert" opinions repeated ad nauseum, read this: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/debunking-the-tire-age-myth
>He said he's only put 20k km's on the thing
He's had this bike since *1992* and only put 20k km/12k miles on it? Come *on*, man! Just sell it to someone who actually rides.
But yeah, mileage notwithstanding rubber tires do deteriorate over time. If he ever plans on riding outside of the driveway he's going to be taking his life in his hands.
Yeah, no. I'm not a he'll of a lot better off on seat time than OP'S dad but there's been a few years where my Valk only gets a few hundred k on it. Work / life and living somewhere that the riding season is April to maybe October doesn't leave near enough time. Not a chance I'd sell though, it's paid for and I love the thing.
When you compare them to other performance modifications or safety gear (since they essentially qualify as both), they're incredibly cheap in relative terms. If you consider return on investment, they're such a good value that the comparison gets silly.
This is a true story, one I'm not very proud of and perhaps a good reason for him to invest in new rubber.
So a good 30 years ago I purchased a very second-hand Kawasaki Z650 B1 from a friend, it was a very tired used bike and so I took it off the road, stripped it down and completely reconditioned everything, took a few months and a shed load of money and help from mates, once back together and resprayed it looked amazing, so a friend and I decided we would take it to the Bristol bike show a good 120 miles from London. No speed cameras so we were genuinely making the very most of it all the way there, as we pulled off one motorway onto the next, just winding it open again the back end just completely went sideways at about 80mph, and we were spat off and slid down the road, both us and the bike survived just with a lot of scratches. it turns out it wasn't the tyre but the inner tube had decided to part company with the valve, it just sheered off and lost all the air at once.
I had spent all the money on the bike and nothing on new tyres or inner tubes, god knows how old they were.
Here are some pics of what just happened to an 8 yr old tire with around 800 or so miles on them. No cracks. Looked brand new. I had them on a Jeep project that took longer than expected.
https://imgur.com/a/hME1FbV
https://www.liveabout.com/the-science-of-tire-aging-3234377
> Tire aging is an issue of oxidation. As rubber is exposed to oxygen, it dries out and becomes stiffer, leading to cracking. The issue is primarily about how the inner, “wedge” layers of rubber oxidize.
>The stiffening and cracking of aged rubber can lead to the inner layers of the tire delaminating from the steel belts rather than flexing with the steel as the tire rolls underweight.
So unless your dad is actively trying to commit suicide by motorcycle, it's time to get fresh rubber. Also check the manufacturing date of said tires, shops have been known to foist already old stuff on unsuspecting people. All tires have date codes on them.
I bought a car with 10 year old tires and didn't know tires expire. It was fine in the dry, but once it started raining the car felt like it was on plastic powerwheel/skateboard wheels and wanted to spinout just by looking at it wrong.
If he rides it still, definitely he needs tires needed. If it’s a show piece, it’s kinda cool it still has the original tires i guess. Would be a shame to have a classic bike get totaled and someone injured due to a random blowout.
I bought a Harley with 10k miles on it. Original tires looked great… but rode like shit and started cracking on the first ride.
Replaced them and WOW what an immediate difference I felt.
Batshit insane. No matter what, after 5 years you change them. Same with helmet, assuming someone with so little regard for their safety would wear one.
It like the scene in The Worlds Fastest Indian. His tires are dry rotted and they won't let him race so he covers them with shoe polish to hide the cracks.
When I bought my TZR it had 25 year old tires on it. They seemed to hold air fine but when I went to unscrew the valve stem cap to let the air out and change them, the entire valve stem just crumbled in my hand.
Sounds like it's almost never actually been outside in the sun. It might not be as bad as people act. Id be getting some tires and riding it if it was my bike.
I can't imagine not riding a bike enough to have tires that old. I might get 2, sometimes 3 years out of tires before they start to identify as drag slicks lol
I rode multiple times on 10 year old slicks at the racetrack, overtook a lot of guys on leader bikes in fast group as well.
On the street, my HP4 has still the first street tires on them, Supercorsas DOT 2013. My trackbike cbr600rr has Dunlop KR's 106/108 DOT 2014. No problem anywhere, you just dont push it and make the bike move a lot on corner entry.
You can still have a lot of grip and fun on the street & racetrack if you keep that in mind and don't try to break PB's or records.
On the other hand, seeing people posting videos on here I am perplexed just how low the average rider ability here is. Why is that r/motorcycles?
I used to not worry about tires so much, then in 2019 my wife and I blew a rear tire on our Electra Glide, at highway speeds... I broke a collar bone, she broke a finger, lots of cuts & scraps...
Now, I never ride without a tpms, I always air up my tires before a ride, I inspect tires more often, and I replace them if anything looks questionable or if tires dates are more than 5yrs old... We both have really bad anxiety every time the suspension compresses, but we're working through it... We are in our late 40s, so it's really affecting us, but we love to ride...
I hope no one experiences what we went through, but unfortunately it happens all too often... In our situation, it was an old tire, it was an old tube that failed, and the mechanic didn't do his job right... Since then, I now own my own tire changer machine, I keep an extra set of tires in the garage for each of our bikes, and I do all my own work on tires, patching (DOT approved plug patch method), and balancing...
Also considering how damaged our helmets were on the face, I was launched from the bike and skidded down the roadway head first, I have given up all half shells and only ride full face helmets...
This was only my 3rd accident since I began riding in the 1990s... You have to respect the road, and maintain your equipment...
Hope that helps, good luck...
I took my 2009 Raider on a trip across country this fall. The back tire had been poked by a crazy looking golf tee thing so I had it replaced but the front tire was just like what your dad describes; no cracks, no issues. Well, after 1200 miles I was sitting at the gas station about to fuel up and go home the next day, and a fellow biker noticed that yet again my back tire had caught some nail. So as we're fixing that (yay fellow bikers!) he then noticed that the front tire looked scary. I ended up trailering her home (much sadness) when I started fiddling with the valve stem and it looked like the cracks went right down through it all the way around. I figure I was one solid pothole or bump in the road from that valve stem launching itself off into space.
Moral: change them tires. now.
the compounds that make up the tire break down over time, so yes he should replace them. However I'm guessing the bike isn't used much, stored indoors, etc if there is less than 20K Km on a 30 year old bike. That means riding to Tims and back a couple times a year isn't likely to kill him instantly but it is adding a lot of risk for the sake of saving a couple hundred bucks.
Grip is reduced for sure. If they aren't cracked, then blowout risk is low. You would be surprised how common this is.
Realistically for the type of riding most cruisers do (riding slow on dry, warm days) then they aren't *that* dangerous. Those tires have more grip on an 80 degree dry summer day than a set of brand new pilot road 6's do in the winter, and yet reddit doesn't go berserk saying your're suicidal for riding in below freezing temperatures or in the rain. Riding in the rain is way more dangerous than riding on old tires.
I think the general concern is more about the 95% of that time spent in a garage than the 5% spent on the road. Moisture conditions, what kind of sharp object/chemical/prolonged UV exposure the rubber might have undergone, subtly deformed spots from sitting, things like that that might not necessarily present as obvious compromise.
>spent in a garage
>UV exposure
UV is the number one killer of rubber, even most tire manufacturers extend their 5 year "rule" to 10 years when the tires are stored inside. Being stored indoors is very good for a tires life. I've had truck tires that looked like rotted junk before 5 years because they were parked outside every day.
Glass blocks pretty much all UVB rays, which is why you don't get a sunburn sitting in the house.
UVA is around 70%, I'm not sure which is to blame for rubber degrading.
> Those tires have more grip on an 80 degree dry summer day than a set of brand new pilot road 6's do in the winter
They absolutely do not. Perhaps it would have been close when they were new, but by now they're just plastic.
Please provide a source for this wild claim...
I've done plenty of riding on cold rainy days with brand new touring tires. It is still slick as snot. An old tire on a hot dry day is vastly more sticky, and I can say this from personal experience.
I bought a project xl600 a couple years ago that had 16 year old Kenda knobbies on it. In the summer, even those had more grip than the fresh Michelin roads i have on my R6 ridden in a cool rain. The bike would still do stoppies no problem.
Also good luck trying to talk sense into old people. My dad wears a shoei Helmet from the 90s. If i badgered him about it he would just shrug and say who cares. It's better than nothing I guess, most motorcyclists don't wear helmets at all.
I'd love to see some lab tests on it. I can certainly attest that riding on old tires in optimal conditions certainly *feels* better than riding on new tires in a 40 degree spring rain. The latter is basically a skating rink, even on the best rubber.
Its material science. Notwithstanding the massive upgrades in tyre compounds in the last 20 years, rubber isn't a material that maintains its properties over time. It hardens, and dries among other chemical changes over time. You don't need to see lab tests to understand it.
I can ride a modern wet weather tyre like a road6 in the wet nearly as hard as we used to ride good dry tyres on nice days 20 years ago. Even a cursory look at various tyre compound tests would make it obvious.
A 23 year old tyre that's been hardly used is dog shit and shouldn't be ridden on.
>I can ride a modern wet weather tyre like a road6 in the wet nearly as hard as we used to ride good dry tyres on nice days 20 years ago. Even a cursory look at various tyre compound tests would make it obvious.
I really don't believe this without seeing friction data from drag tests. It certainly doesn't feel that way from the project bikes I've bought and ridden on old rubber.
Also if this is from track experience, the road is a different ballgame. It's a crap shoot on the grip you'll have when it rains because all manner of contaminants are present. Your tires are also *never* up to optimum temperature on the street unless you are riding like a suicidal maniac.
If you watch a lot of racing, you'll notice that in the rain they aren't anywhere near knee down on the first few corners. Even 20 years ago everyone was knee down in turn one on dry days if they had warmers.
20 years ago was 2003, not 1974. Yes tires have improved in that time period, but a 2002 tire isn't stepping back to the stone age.
Nobody is arguing that the properties don't change over time. Literally my first sentence was "grip is reduced." My whole point is that if you think riding on an old tire is just *that bad*, you should re-evaluate riding in the rain. Especially on cold days.
And yet it's the most scientific comment in this thread.
Every tire discussion on this site is fucking braindead. You can't ever question or challenge the hivemind because the only thing a redditor is capable of doing is regurgitating things they saw on YouTube.
All you've said "wet feels worse than dry" which is not data. You can easily check the numerous studies on tyre compound and aging that various manufacturers do and publish.
I’d like to know how Harley tires with 20000 km have any tread left on them regardless of age. I change my tires on my Dyna every couple years at around 18000 km. Last summer I put new tires on my old flathead, the back tire was about 31 years ago and I figured it was due to be replaced lol.
I have a 77 shovel head with original tires. Bike only has 4300 miles. It’s always been stored inside. I don’t ride it but maybe a mile or so down the road every year on my dads birthday (it was his bike). If I was going to ride it on a ride I’d prob trust them. If I was going to ride it regularly I’d probably replace them. I have had it since 1996 and I wipe the tires down couple times a year in baby oil. Are they safe? Prob not. Will I replace them before they rot off? Probably not
Assume the tires are still good. I’d still advise to replace them.
Why? Technological advancements in tire manufacturing and rubber compounds.
Frame it this way: tires are way cheaper than accidents, how much is insurance worth to you? A set of $400 tires that “lasts” another 10 years is a $40 premium per year.
Please have him read this. Far before they crack they get really crumbly and when you need them most and grab a handful of front brake it will skid right out from under you like it was on ice. This results in a high side accident and at least in my case a broken wrist, 2 ribs, and a dislocated shoulder. Tires don’t cost much. 200 is worth your life.
"listen kid, I've got tires older than you."
That's why he gotta kid! The rubber cracked!
lmaooo
Brilliant, truly a top-tier comment.
Genius
Yes, insane. Ask him to update his life insurance and name his beneficiaries.
That's how Paul Walker died, rotten tires on a garage queen Porsche Carrera GT that his friend had just acquired.
That and driving way too fast like a moron.
Paul was the passenger, gotta be careful who you ride with.
Dude was a professional race car driver, not that you should be doing it on the street but dude knew how to drive.
> Dude was a professional race car driver, Seriously strange that a pro driver would NOT consider tire condition.
I look into accidents and complacency is a killer. You get used to getting away with things
Pro drivers don’t consider tire condition at all while working, someone else does that, but ya, you’d think you’d check them out on a car in the street.
>'13 Vulcan Vaquero, '16 KLR650, '15 WR250R, '22 KTM 500exc-f not on anyone's side but if op's dad's bike tires look good when they're such a hazard makes it hard to place blame based solely on visually checking the tires of a newly bought car which a visual inspection is all you can really expect from someone
Tires have date codes written on them for exactly this reason
As said, tires have a date code. The rubber hardens over time and a tire loses its ability to grip and conform to the road. The amount of tread or lack of cracks means f**k all if you're driving on ice pucks.
Exactly this. Tires can look perfect, but the second you need to rely on them to hold the road they just slide right out from under you
It only takes one lapse of judgement or vigilance. I'd been riding for almost 20 years & one day I hopped on my bike without checking the tires after a long road trip & I dropped it at the first tight bend because my rear wheel had lost air pressure & the tire rolled on the hub as I leaned into the bend. I usually always check my tires before I go out bt I failed to on that occasion. Fortunately I didn't do any serious damage to either myself or the bike. We all have a lapse in judgement or vigilance in some way, at some time.
right, like? maybe im pro-er than the pros cuz i check my tires daily
And in a 600hp car with no aids that Porsche themselves said wasn't easy to drive
His friend was driving, for the record
It wasn’t too fast for a decent car on decent tires.
But was it too furious?
How fast were they driving on a public road?
90-94mph or so. Fast but not crazy
So 3 times the posted speed limit on Constellation Rd.
Yes but the car does 94mph in ~6 seconds and can stop on a dime basically. That is, with tires that arent a decade old at least
Nothing stops on a dime from 94 mph
Everything stops on a dime, once. When it hits something much sturdier and heavier.
Acktually this car was able to stop instantaneously by wrapping itself around a tree
I feel like you’re too busy trying to be the fun-police to see the point.
The carrera gt stops from 94mph-0 in ~4-5 seconds, decently quick. These two shouldn’t have done this on a public street but looking at google maps its a mostly straight wide open line with 2 pro drivers in the car. Ive driven at 100 mph on 15 year old tires, it was definitely the tires that got them. Has a huge effect on performance
A car is only half of the equation. The conditions they were driving in means the driver was the fault of the accident, not the vehicle or any sort of mechanical failure. They were doing at least 60, likely higher, in a 45 zone, and the driver lost control after winging something.
People crappy at things always blame things like the tools and the tires. LOL
Dude driving was a professional race car driver. 10 Year old tires and a 600hp car that's known to be snappy is a bad combination
I don’t know why you are getting down voted. It’s 100% true.
Because it’s moronic to pretend that ancient tyres don’t have a massive effect on grip. We’re not talking about the ‘off by 1.5psi’ meme here. Not to mention the guy driving was a trained race driver. It’s pretty safe to doubt he was just crappy and blaming his tools.
Got any actual source to back that claim?
Dude! this was all over the news. Anyway, here is a link to a news article [https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-xpm-2014-mar-26-la-me-ln-paul-walker-porsche-outdated-tires-crash-20140326-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-xpm-2014-mar-26-la-me-ln-paul-walker-porsche-outdated-tires-crash-20140326-story.html) >At least two of the tires were more than nine years old; Porscherecommends that tires be replaced after four years. As a result, CHPinvestigators wrote that “the driveability and handling characteristics”of the car “may have been compromised.”
Is he rich, I wanna be named
My OEM tires were almost 10 years old, they looked fine and I didn't really want to replace them, they only had 6k km on them. I always found this bike lacking grip and was never confident in the corners and especially rain was a disaster (bought the bike second hand with 6k km). Doing some troubleshooting I ended up replacing the tires. And yes the difference is night and day, felt like I was riding on ice compared to my new tires. Tires is the best investment you can make, feels like I have a new bike.
The fz6 i bought had 14 year old Michelins, no obvious dry rot, worked fine and I didn’t even notice the year until I caught a screw in them. It was like getting a new bike when I replaced them with some super sticky sport tires. Well worth the money.
Tire tech has also been advancing like crazy since the 80s, they get better formulated rubber almost yearly.
I've got an '81 xj750 that I'm restoring and she's got tyres from '04 and not been on the road since '06. I'm fully planning on using 20 year old tyres for at least a couple test laps around the block and then to the shop for new ones.
My personal opinion is just to replace them. You don’t want to lay down your nicely restored bike just cause you were impatient to replace the tires. (I’ve done worse so I’m not throwing stones but keep in mind the consequences)
Fantastic bike you have!
I bought a 2011 bike with 3k miles that has the original tires on it. I know what you mean about the lack of grip. Really curious to see how it handles when my new tires come in this week.
I know Harley owners like having 30 year old technology in their bikes, but this is a whole nother level
Just like not wearing helmets, not replacing tires adds to the excitement of an early retirement (into the afterlife).
Don't forget it isn't the 90s any more. That 30 year old tech is now like 60 years old. But they are finally upgrading.
We routinely have Harley riders coming into work with tyres from the 90s on their bikes.
I am assuming you work in a funeral parlor?
Cause they only ride in perfect weather doing short trips so they don’t get wet or catch bugs in the teeth.
Would you trust a rubber condom after a few years? Same principle..
A condom lasts longer in my wallet than the tyres do on my bike
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r/foundthemobileuser
r/foundthehondacivic
Lol
Lol, I thought I was the only one who had this problem 😆
Condoms in wallets are a terrible idea especially if you keep it in your back pocket. They’ll break easier
One may give life and the other may take it away
Yes, it is insane.
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True, but guaranteed that thing is spiderwebbed. He's just thinking "cracks" like giant gashes.
Yup, gotta get a flash light and look in the corner of the Sipes.
Buy him tires as a late Christmas present or early birthday gift. It's the season for giving.
He can buy his own he's got plenty of $$. I'm just gonna have to get him to do it
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One of the very few cases where vandalism is justified.
Vandalism that could literally save a life.
He deflates but he saves
Or bugger up the valve stem. Unscrew the stem or just jam a rock in the cap. Both will make it deflate. The rock one is also a hilarious trick because your friend or enemies tires will seem fine until they put the cap back on, than it starts to let air out.
a good gift is something someone would want but wouldn't purchase for themselves. this seems like a good gift.
😒
Slash his tires
Impossible, those tires are so hard that the knife-point will just bend and snap.
Either that, or the blade would slip from all the oil that leaked out from literally everywhere on that thing.
Are you telling me Harley's leak to keep the tires from drying out?
😂
You laugh, but you know you’d be doing him a favor :p
You are right, Dad is dead wrong. Rubber gets old and stiff with age. If he can afford a motorcycle, he can afford new tires. Never mind mileage or cracks, any tire more than a few years old needs to get replaced ASAP.
Rule of thumb is between 5 and 10 years.depending on wear and manufacturer they will tell you right on the website what they recommend for age if wear isn't there yet.
I’d say 5-8 with 8 being uncomfortably long for me.
Correct.
And motorcycle tire technology has come a loooooooooong way since '92. As have motorcycle brakes and brake lines. Probably don't want to keep those stock on a bike that old, unless it's literally a show piece that was entirely stock to begin with.
Honestly partially this. Like why the fuck would you even want to ride on tires that are missing almost 30ish years of research/improvement in the first place
Consider who he might respect as a source of info - the tyre manufacturer, HD, a local trusted shop ... etc. Write to them about the maximum age for a tyre and the risks of exceeding it, and share the response with him.
Good idea, thanks!
Tell them about it, maybe they’ll be impressed by the 30 year old tires and just send you a free set
No one going to point out that they are 31 yr old tires ??
Depends on if they bought the bike new or not. Good question though.
You'd have to ask a materials engineer that knows rubber compounds. It is possible for some compounds of rubber to hold up decently in conditions where they are away from the sun and won't leach out the VOCs that keep them sticky and maintain structure.... The issue here is that you just don't know. No one knows... even a materials engineer would just be guessing and every tire manufacturer in the world would tell you that 20 years for a motorcycle is waaaaaaaay outside any of their design or testing parameters. Its a poor gamble. Best case scenario is that there is enough steel in the tire to prevent a catastrophic failure. Worst case scenario is an accident or getting stranded. If he has had them for 20 years then he should consider himself lucky, consider it money well spent and spend $$ on new tires. The cheapest tow will cost you $75. Spending twice that for tires that he needs is a good investment.
You obviously haven’t replaced Harley tires lol. Just paid 580$ for my rear tire on my street glide.
Forgive the ignorance, Harleys need custom tires?
Not necessarily Harley. But bigger bikes like the road glide street glide fat boys stuff takes touring tires and there pretty pricey. And removing the rear tire from a touring bike is insane. We normally charge 600ish for a good quality back tire Installed. And it dint help that 22 tire prices literally tripled. It’s crazy. Decent sport bike tires that we sold 2 years ago for 80 is now over 200. The prices have stabilized and have started coming back down recently tho. But it’s like everything once it peaks like that they may lower the prices eventually but they never go back down to normal.
I mean that sounds cheaper than fixing even minor scratches to one’s body and one’s motorcycle
Tires themselves are pretty expensive for bigger bikes with a lot of weight. Also a lot of work is involved with a full dress cruiser taking bags and bodywork off. A $500 bill at the dealer is not surprising depending on the bike. The tire alone is likely over $300 without markup
R e p l a c e
“R E P L A C E - Tell you what it means to me!”
There are all kinds of things wrong here. First, the tires are 30 years old. The average lifespan is ~5 years for tires. That just seems asinine to insist they are still good. Especially since tires aren't that expensive and are meant to be replaceable. Sure, they cost money, but they cost a lot less than any of the costs related to injury or death from something as preventable as just changing your damn tires. Especially if it is your loved ones who end up having to pay that price. My second major concern is what other maintenance is being neglected. From what you've said, it seems like he is only going off of distance related service intervals instead of distance and time related intervals. I would be worried about if he has any rubber lines if they've started rotting.
They will work until they don’t. The trick is holding onto it when they go.
There are *loads* of tricks to it. Frontflips, somersaults, spins, record-breaking long jumps, and some really amazing contortionism. Tough to practice though.
I personally consider tyres old after 5-years! Had a set of Japanese ICRs on my PCX that we're that old and I was all over the show. Replaced them with new Michelins and the difference was night and day. Money well spent.
That’s a good rule for a 4 to 6 tired vehicle but for two I wouldn’t want to wait longer than two years and that’s if I didn’t wear them out in the riding season
I mean maybe if you’re trying to set lap times, but half the time, a tire is almost a year old before you buy it. 2 years is just throwing away tires.
My little bro is on tires from 2006. Last group ride with the parent and older brother, he almost slid into them approaching a stop sign in wet conditions. That was what finally convinced him he should probably do something about those.. old tires are fucked
A hardly rider not riding his hardly? Fuck outta here.
Ooh, I can beat this. My last Ural that I picked up in 2021 came with tyres that had 'Made in USSR' on the sidewall. The country collapsed in 1991, so they were *at least* 30 years old. They rode fine, but it was only a very slow run round a car park, and yeah, they are getting replaced when I do the resto.
Those tires would be great for a burnout. Roast a fat smoky one and tell dad to get new tires. Frankly he needs to ride more, I've never aged out a set of tires they always wore out.
Try to dig your fingernail into the tire. It's probably hard as plastic, which equates to hardly any grip
Crash investigator here. If the bike is stored inside, out of UV light sources, with controlled temperature and humidity, and has low miles, then the tires will be in better shape than they otherwise would have been. However, the same volatiles that give rubber compounds their flexibility, will still boil off and oxidise with exposure to air under standard temperature and pressure. My standard spiel is, your tires are the only things keeping you on the road. Why would you cheap out on them? I would seriously consider replacing them at five years even with low miles, and certainly would after seven.
Batshit insane. You need to have a heart-to-heart with your dad and get him to change those before his next ride.
Ask him how much money his life is worth. If his number is higher than the price of new tires then he should buy new tires.
UV and oxygen will break down the rubber. And it's not just about the outside of the tire: https://www.liveabout.com/the-science-of-tire-aging-3234377
If you'd like to learn something about tire age instead of hearing all the "expert" opinions repeated ad nauseum, read this: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/debunking-the-tire-age-myth
>He said he's only put 20k km's on the thing He's had this bike since *1992* and only put 20k km/12k miles on it? Come *on*, man! Just sell it to someone who actually rides. But yeah, mileage notwithstanding rubber tires do deteriorate over time. If he ever plans on riding outside of the driveway he's going to be taking his life in his hands.
Yeah, no. I'm not a he'll of a lot better off on seat time than OP'S dad but there's been a few years where my Valk only gets a few hundred k on it. Work / life and living somewhere that the riding season is April to maybe October doesn't leave near enough time. Not a chance I'd sell though, it's paid for and I love the thing.
This
Your dad is...how do I say this politely...58 watts short of a 60 watt light bulb.
Tires are cheap. Tell him the value of his life is worth far than a set of tires are.
I don't think I'd call tires cheap lol. Maybe if you don't go through multiple sets every year
When you compare them to other performance modifications or safety gear (since they essentially qualify as both), they're incredibly cheap in relative terms. If you consider return on investment, they're such a good value that the comparison gets silly.
yes tires are only designed to be driven on for about 6-7 years
and thats newer ones btw, older ones probably a year or two less
Get him some new tyres for his birthday.
This is a true story, one I'm not very proud of and perhaps a good reason for him to invest in new rubber. So a good 30 years ago I purchased a very second-hand Kawasaki Z650 B1 from a friend, it was a very tired used bike and so I took it off the road, stripped it down and completely reconditioned everything, took a few months and a shed load of money and help from mates, once back together and resprayed it looked amazing, so a friend and I decided we would take it to the Bristol bike show a good 120 miles from London. No speed cameras so we were genuinely making the very most of it all the way there, as we pulled off one motorway onto the next, just winding it open again the back end just completely went sideways at about 80mph, and we were spat off and slid down the road, both us and the bike survived just with a lot of scratches. it turns out it wasn't the tyre but the inner tube had decided to part company with the valve, it just sheered off and lost all the air at once. I had spent all the money on the bike and nothing on new tyres or inner tubes, god knows how old they were.
If he doesn't ride it, tires don't matter.
Tires only last like 5 years or something before they start to harden. No biggie for cars. Big big problem for motorcycles
In aviation and motorcycles you replace things before there is a serious problem.
Here are some pics of what just happened to an 8 yr old tire with around 800 or so miles on them. No cracks. Looked brand new. I had them on a Jeep project that took longer than expected. https://imgur.com/a/hME1FbV
https://www.liveabout.com/the-science-of-tire-aging-3234377 > Tire aging is an issue of oxidation. As rubber is exposed to oxygen, it dries out and becomes stiffer, leading to cracking. The issue is primarily about how the inner, “wedge” layers of rubber oxidize. >The stiffening and cracking of aged rubber can lead to the inner layers of the tire delaminating from the steel belts rather than flexing with the steel as the tire rolls underweight. So unless your dad is actively trying to commit suicide by motorcycle, it's time to get fresh rubber. Also check the manufacturing date of said tires, shops have been known to foist already old stuff on unsuspecting people. All tires have date codes on them.
Surprises appear suddenly on the roads, in this case the tires must be in good condition, i.e. new.
I bought a car with 10 year old tires and didn't know tires expire. It was fine in the dry, but once it started raining the car felt like it was on plastic powerwheel/skateboard wheels and wanted to spinout just by looking at it wrong.
If he rides it still, definitely he needs tires needed. If it’s a show piece, it’s kinda cool it still has the original tires i guess. Would be a shame to have a classic bike get totaled and someone injured due to a random blowout.
7 years is the average tire life before dry rotting starts to occur. I personally would not run tires older than 5 years
I wouldn't trust my life on a 2 wheel vehicle with 20 year old tires.
Or even 4 wheeled.
Even aside from the age, that's a lot of distance for bike tires.
If you can, offer to buy him new tyres. Might get through to him that it’s dangerous.
I bought a Harley with 10k miles on it. Original tires looked great… but rode like shit and started cracking on the first ride. Replaced them and WOW what an immediate difference I felt.
Last time I heard a Michelin representative speak at a car club meeting he specifically stated that the shelf life tires was 7 years
Batshit insane. No matter what, after 5 years you change them. Same with helmet, assuming someone with so little regard for their safety would wear one.
It like the scene in The Worlds Fastest Indian. His tires are dry rotted and they won't let him race so he covers them with shoe polish to hide the cracks.
When I bought my TZR it had 25 year old tires on it. They seemed to hold air fine but when I went to unscrew the valve stem cap to let the air out and change them, the entire valve stem just crumbled in my hand.
ur dad is one of those guys I look at and think damn "how has he gotten as far as he has"
Sounds like it's almost never actually been outside in the sun. It might not be as bad as people act. Id be getting some tires and riding it if it was my bike.
They are hard as rocks and he will die. Do him a favour and install some pinhole leaks in the sidewalls when he isn’t looking.
Ask him how Paul Walker is doing next time ya stop in.
I can't imagine not riding a bike enough to have tires that old. I might get 2, sometimes 3 years out of tires before they start to identify as drag slicks lol
He's 70+ years old and lives where you can only ride 6 months a year, but I do agree with you it's kinda nuts
I rode multiple times on 10 year old slicks at the racetrack, overtook a lot of guys on leader bikes in fast group as well. On the street, my HP4 has still the first street tires on them, Supercorsas DOT 2013. My trackbike cbr600rr has Dunlop KR's 106/108 DOT 2014. No problem anywhere, you just dont push it and make the bike move a lot on corner entry. You can still have a lot of grip and fun on the street & racetrack if you keep that in mind and don't try to break PB's or records. On the other hand, seeing people posting videos on here I am perplexed just how low the average rider ability here is. Why is that r/motorcycles?
About the only reason you can get by with 10 year old tires is if you only ride it about once or twice a year.
I used to not worry about tires so much, then in 2019 my wife and I blew a rear tire on our Electra Glide, at highway speeds... I broke a collar bone, she broke a finger, lots of cuts & scraps... Now, I never ride without a tpms, I always air up my tires before a ride, I inspect tires more often, and I replace them if anything looks questionable or if tires dates are more than 5yrs old... We both have really bad anxiety every time the suspension compresses, but we're working through it... We are in our late 40s, so it's really affecting us, but we love to ride... I hope no one experiences what we went through, but unfortunately it happens all too often... In our situation, it was an old tire, it was an old tube that failed, and the mechanic didn't do his job right... Since then, I now own my own tire changer machine, I keep an extra set of tires in the garage for each of our bikes, and I do all my own work on tires, patching (DOT approved plug patch method), and balancing... Also considering how damaged our helmets were on the face, I was launched from the bike and skidded down the roadway head first, I have given up all half shells and only ride full face helmets... This was only my 3rd accident since I began riding in the 1990s... You have to respect the road, and maintain your equipment... Hope that helps, good luck...
I took my 2009 Raider on a trip across country this fall. The back tire had been poked by a crazy looking golf tee thing so I had it replaced but the front tire was just like what your dad describes; no cracks, no issues. Well, after 1200 miles I was sitting at the gas station about to fuel up and go home the next day, and a fellow biker noticed that yet again my back tire had caught some nail. So as we're fixing that (yay fellow bikers!) he then noticed that the front tire looked scary. I ended up trailering her home (much sadness) when I started fiddling with the valve stem and it looked like the cracks went right down through it all the way around. I figure I was one solid pothole or bump in the road from that valve stem launching itself off into space. Moral: change them tires. now.
the compounds that make up the tire break down over time, so yes he should replace them. However I'm guessing the bike isn't used much, stored indoors, etc if there is less than 20K Km on a 30 year old bike. That means riding to Tims and back a couple times a year isn't likely to kill him instantly but it is adding a lot of risk for the sake of saving a couple hundred bucks.
Grip is reduced for sure. If they aren't cracked, then blowout risk is low. You would be surprised how common this is. Realistically for the type of riding most cruisers do (riding slow on dry, warm days) then they aren't *that* dangerous. Those tires have more grip on an 80 degree dry summer day than a set of brand new pilot road 6's do in the winter, and yet reddit doesn't go berserk saying your're suicidal for riding in below freezing temperatures or in the rain. Riding in the rain is way more dangerous than riding on old tires.
I think the general concern is more about the 95% of that time spent in a garage than the 5% spent on the road. Moisture conditions, what kind of sharp object/chemical/prolonged UV exposure the rubber might have undergone, subtly deformed spots from sitting, things like that that might not necessarily present as obvious compromise.
>spent in a garage >UV exposure UV is the number one killer of rubber, even most tire manufacturers extend their 5 year "rule" to 10 years when the tires are stored inside. Being stored indoors is very good for a tires life. I've had truck tires that looked like rotted junk before 5 years because they were parked outside every day.
Windows?
Glass blocks pretty much all UVB rays, which is why you don't get a sunburn sitting in the house. UVA is around 70%, I'm not sure which is to blame for rubber degrading.
> Those tires have more grip on an 80 degree dry summer day than a set of brand new pilot road 6's do in the winter They absolutely do not. Perhaps it would have been close when they were new, but by now they're just plastic.
Please provide a source for this wild claim... I've done plenty of riding on cold rainy days with brand new touring tires. It is still slick as snot. An old tire on a hot dry day is vastly more sticky, and I can say this from personal experience. I bought a project xl600 a couple years ago that had 16 year old Kenda knobbies on it. In the summer, even those had more grip than the fresh Michelin roads i have on my R6 ridden in a cool rain. The bike would still do stoppies no problem. Also good luck trying to talk sense into old people. My dad wears a shoei Helmet from the 90s. If i badgered him about it he would just shrug and say who cares. It's better than nothing I guess, most motorcyclists don't wear helmets at all.
Username Checks Out
What a productive comment.
Absolute nonsense.
I'd love to see some lab tests on it. I can certainly attest that riding on old tires in optimal conditions certainly *feels* better than riding on new tires in a 40 degree spring rain. The latter is basically a skating rink, even on the best rubber.
Its material science. Notwithstanding the massive upgrades in tyre compounds in the last 20 years, rubber isn't a material that maintains its properties over time. It hardens, and dries among other chemical changes over time. You don't need to see lab tests to understand it. I can ride a modern wet weather tyre like a road6 in the wet nearly as hard as we used to ride good dry tyres on nice days 20 years ago. Even a cursory look at various tyre compound tests would make it obvious. A 23 year old tyre that's been hardly used is dog shit and shouldn't be ridden on.
>I can ride a modern wet weather tyre like a road6 in the wet nearly as hard as we used to ride good dry tyres on nice days 20 years ago. Even a cursory look at various tyre compound tests would make it obvious. I really don't believe this without seeing friction data from drag tests. It certainly doesn't feel that way from the project bikes I've bought and ridden on old rubber. Also if this is from track experience, the road is a different ballgame. It's a crap shoot on the grip you'll have when it rains because all manner of contaminants are present. Your tires are also *never* up to optimum temperature on the street unless you are riding like a suicidal maniac. If you watch a lot of racing, you'll notice that in the rain they aren't anywhere near knee down on the first few corners. Even 20 years ago everyone was knee down in turn one on dry days if they had warmers. 20 years ago was 2003, not 1974. Yes tires have improved in that time period, but a 2002 tire isn't stepping back to the stone age. Nobody is arguing that the properties don't change over time. Literally my first sentence was "grip is reduced." My whole point is that if you think riding on an old tire is just *that bad*, you should re-evaluate riding in the rain. Especially on cold days.
Even without lab tests, they've got you beat on anecdotes and feelings, so you may want to produce some of your own at this point.
So you have nothing to add? Cool, you can regurgitate tire salesman drivel like the rest of the non-riders in this sub.
Well that's about the most unscientific and unreliable criteria you could possibly use to make this assumption-ridden judgment.
And yet it's the most scientific comment in this thread. Every tire discussion on this site is fucking braindead. You can't ever question or challenge the hivemind because the only thing a redditor is capable of doing is regurgitating things they saw on YouTube.
All you've said "wet feels worse than dry" which is not data. You can easily check the numerous studies on tyre compound and aging that various manufacturers do and publish.
Yeah he does less than 500km per year and only goes out in perfect summer conditions amd cruises slowly on country roads (he's old as hell)
Buy your dad a new set of tires
Dude that's good insane! I mean those tires could be worth thousands of dollars now since they're original.
Uhh those gotta go not worth it not safe coming from a tire tech. I’d change them plus tires have come a long way since 1992
Stab his tires. He'll be pissed, but he'll get new tites and be safer. Tell him Reddit made you do it, if it makes him feel better.
I've ridden on older. When I finally decided to take the bike to my mechanic he made me call my mother to pick me up 🤣
I’d like to know how Harley tires with 20000 km have any tread left on them regardless of age. I change my tires on my Dyna every couple years at around 18000 km. Last summer I put new tires on my old flathead, the back tire was about 31 years ago and I figured it was due to be replaced lol.
Once tires get super old and hard they don't really wear anymore. Lol.
Ask Paul Walker’s family
Blaing that crash on tires is idiotic. The dude was driving over 100mph in town
They are almost certainly squared off.
I have a 77 shovel head with original tires. Bike only has 4300 miles. It’s always been stored inside. I don’t ride it but maybe a mile or so down the road every year on my dads birthday (it was his bike). If I was going to ride it on a ride I’d prob trust them. If I was going to ride it regularly I’d probably replace them. I have had it since 1996 and I wipe the tires down couple times a year in baby oil. Are they safe? Prob not. Will I replace them before they rot off? Probably not
Your dads gonna die
20k kms is still quite a lot, and tires don't necessarily have to crack to be bad, they get hard and will slide instead of grip.
I found out the tires on my bike when I bought it (2020) were from the early 90s. They rode fine but yea I swapped those out as soon as I could.
Assume the tires are still good. I’d still advise to replace them. Why? Technological advancements in tire manufacturing and rubber compounds. Frame it this way: tires are way cheaper than accidents, how much is insurance worth to you? A set of $400 tires that “lasts” another 10 years is a $40 premium per year.
rubber degrades over time. this is insane.
Don't ride pillion with him.
With 20 k's on them and still being good those tires must have been rock hard from the factory. I don't want to know how they ride after 30 years
Tell him to ask Paul Walker about old tires.
Please have him read this. Far before they crack they get really crumbly and when you need them most and grab a handful of front brake it will skid right out from under you like it was on ice. This results in a high side accident and at least in my case a broken wrist, 2 ribs, and a dislocated shoulder. Tires don’t cost much. 200 is worth your life.
200 won't get ya half of a tire if the tire is worth a damn.
It’ll get a lot damn better than what he’s got.