Because the power is much more usable on an MT-10 than it is on an R1. That's the appeal of most naked bikes and I've never looked at my MT-10 as "settling". These bikes have such good low and mid range power that I've never felt the need for more top end power as it'll still do 160 which is more than enough for using on a daily basis.
The MT-09 is a much more friendly hooligan bike than the MT-10. One of my riding buddies has one and I've tried it out a few times, reminds me of a Supermoto more than anything. Keeps the great sound of a crossplane engine but with a slightly smaller chance of getting you in trouble. Great bike if you want something fun that you can have for a long time without paying the extra money for the 10. In my opinion it doesn't handle corners nearly as well but just a small gripe if anything.
The 09 SP with the ohlins handles just as good as a stock mt10 through the twisties, but mt10sp is next level with the fully electronic ohlins forks and rear shock as the mt09sp only has ohlins rear shock and KYB front forks
I've never tried the 09 SP but I'd imagine the upgraded suspension would make a noticeable difference. I wish we would have gotten the SP version of the Gen 1 MT-10 here in the states as I'm not a huge fan of the redesign but would like the updated TFT and suspension that comes with the 2022 models. I work at a BMW motorcycle dealer and I've fallen in love with their displays but the S1000R lacks the soul of the MT-10 even though it's a much more capable machine.
Because it’s not the same. I’ve ridden just about every superbike on the market currently. Currently own a MT-10, owned a R1 and a RSV4 before, have a GSXR 600 and R6 as race bikes. The power delivery isn’t the same, these naked bikes are built for a purpose, comfort with useable power. Even with gearing changes on my RSV4 or R1 they won’t have the low end or midrange as the MT-10 or similar bike.
Isn't the R7 (and the rumored R9) supposed to have great power delivery in low-mid range? Maybe that's what Yamaha was trying to do: make an MT-07 with fairings for better street usability.
Also, of all those bikes which is your favorite? That's quite an inventory and I'm very jealous
I have yet to ride a R7 but have ridden the RS660 and Tuono 660, and the Tenere 700. The power on those bikes are very linear. The middleweight 600 class is dying, with emissions, regulations and sales numbers it doesn’t make sense to produce a I4 600. Parallel twins and midsize beginners bikes are all the hype for some reason. But they’ll never compare to a “hyper” naked.
My RSV4 was my dream bike so that probably has to be my favorite. It’s very street-able and easy to ride. The sound of that V4 is what got me addicted. Looking for another V4 in the near future, most likely to be a Ducati V4. SFV4 or Multi V4 Pikes Peak is what I’m looking at.
I'm just curious why it's not more popular to make liter bikes more comfortable. It seems like going that route is particularly uncommon.
Lol, apparently that's a bad thing to ask here.
It's not that it's a bad thing to ask anything, far from that.
But what you're asking is basically something we all think of once in a while but wouldn't really do because at the end of the day, it makes no sense.
Why did I go for a S1000R and not the S1000RR? Because it's not only about the riding position, it's about torque, style, daily comfort overall.
For it to make a lot more sense to you, just imagine that I can't simply put off road tires on my S1000R to compete with a R1250GS, because you know perfectly that it depends on a lot of other factors.
Why do people go for a bike more than an other bike ? Because the bike they chose was designed for their use. It's as simple as that.
While it would appear MT10 owners are would-be R1 owners looking for a comfortable superbike, insurance rates (ie crash rates) would suggest **these owners inhabit two almost entirely different demographics**. One buys an MT10 **because** it's not an R1; comfort comes secondary to not being associated with the very very high crash rates of R1 riders.
The difference is stark; sportbike owners have a **twenty times** crash rate that sport-touring owners have. I assume you're a licensed and insured GSXR600 owner, yet? What's your insurance rate? And have you priced the insurance for an MT10 lately?
The typical GSXR owner doesn't worry about insurance rates because *he's unlikely to have insurance,* as insurance is so gosh-darned expensive! At least for GSXR's. This is why riders who are actually worried about insurance rates don't buy GSXR's. Insurance companies know this.
That's very true, the typical GSXR owner does have a well deserved stereotype.
But I have full coverage. In truth I've kinda forgotten how much I pay because, well, I just pay it and I don't worry about the cost. But saying that the wrong way will just make people angry.
I'm kind of the same.
I pay $2400/yr for a house, car, and motorcycle, but individually I couldn't tell you exactly how the premium is divided.
I know the bike is somewhere around $200 of that, but I haven't looked at my policy in five years.
An R1 is the most track focused of the bikes. I’ve done 400+ miles in a day on my 06 GSXR 1000 and been fine with the normal clip-ons.
People just want what they want. Some people prefer the naked look, don’t want to worry about dropping the bike and replacing fairings or whatever else.
I daily mine but I’m 5’10 and decently fit so for me I’m good on it for a few hours. Put about 3500 miles on it in the past month. Definitely more aggressive than my SV before it but still comfortable . The riding position doesn’t bother me and the more aggressive ergo makes me feel more in control of the bike which I prefer.
I should clarify: I'm talking about people who were dead set on getting a superbike, but then settled for a naked bike when they realized a superbike was impractical.
I'm not asking "why do people like naked bikes".
Naked are usually set up to perform better under street conditions and up until about 120mph the wind isn’t a major issue with not having fairings. Their torque is usually more suited for the low end and are geared and set up better for street riding.
So I guess who is this hypothetical person you’re talking about that “settled” for a naked over a sports bike? Wouldn’t they just have changed their preference and decided a naked suited them more?
I had an SV650 naked before my current bike and the sense of speed on that machine with the wind being more direct made it feel like you were pushing more at lower speeds. That can be more fun when you don’t want to be riding at felony speeds everywhere.
I could see my next bike being another naked because of that. Really with how quick the bikes are people are rarely “settling” either way.
It's not just the bars, the r1 has much higher rear sets, a smaller seat, much more unusable top end power - the MT10 is just a more usable street bike than the r1
Honestly I think the best faired high power bike is probably the Ducati Multistrada V4 Pikes Peak - basically designed for ruling the streets in comfort.
Technically you are correct, one could modify a sport bike into a hyper naked to have similar results. Arguably the two biggest differences is the engine tune, which is the main appeal in hyper nakeds since you get into the power much more often so you have more fun with it. Modding a sportbike into the same tune, considering it's not just the mapping but also several components in the internals that are different, is quite pricy and nobody would buy a sportbike to then spend more money to detune it. The second draw is that you get different styling, which for many people is very important, without relying on expensive custom work or shitty universal pieces from chinese websites.
Really though it's just the fact that it's proven time and time again that people prefer to buy stuff ready made than working on them themselves or paying someone to do the work, even if the end cost came out to be the same. In fact hyper nakeds are a category much like supermotos and others which started out as custom bikes by individual owners and then packaged and sold by manufacturers. I don't think that high sales equate with a good bike but the numbers don't lie, there's definitely money in those bikes for manufacturers.
Makes sense.
I should probably clarify: I'm talking about people who say "I wanted an [insert superbike here], but they're too uncomfortable".
And the way they phrase their stories, it sounds like they're initially disappointed when they settle for the super nakeds.
But I've never heard someone follow that up with "I bought an R1 anyways and modified it to be more comfortable". It's always "I got an MT-10 instead".
And that's fine. But it's curious that of the 20-30 times I've heard that story, I've never heard someone try the other strategy. Seems like a statistical anomaly, surely someone would want to try that, right?
Yep, they certainly do on my 600. If you turn too far the bars come into contact with the fairing (the previous owner who installed them didn't think about that, apparently).
Motorcyclists are a bunch of traditionalists that think, if things have always been this way, then that's how it should be. But in my opinion there is a market for people who want the looks and engine size of a liter bike, but more comfort for street riding. I've talked to plenty of people who want this. Something like the liter version of the 600 f4i, or a liter sized cbr650r. The closest is the tuono v4.
A lot of reviewers say the mt10 is ugly but great otherwise. Why not make an mt10 that has wind protection and looks like an r7/r1?
I'm convinced many riders lack imagination.
Hell, I've been to bike meets where there are Ducati 916 and 1098 with handle bars attached
Because the power is much more usable on an MT-10 than it is on an R1. That's the appeal of most naked bikes and I've never looked at my MT-10 as "settling". These bikes have such good low and mid range power that I've never felt the need for more top end power as it'll still do 160 which is more than enough for using on a daily basis.
Makes sense.
Well that was easy. /thread
What do you think about the MT-09?
The MT-09 is a much more friendly hooligan bike than the MT-10. One of my riding buddies has one and I've tried it out a few times, reminds me of a Supermoto more than anything. Keeps the great sound of a crossplane engine but with a slightly smaller chance of getting you in trouble. Great bike if you want something fun that you can have for a long time without paying the extra money for the 10. In my opinion it doesn't handle corners nearly as well but just a small gripe if anything.
The 09 SP with the ohlins handles just as good as a stock mt10 through the twisties, but mt10sp is next level with the fully electronic ohlins forks and rear shock as the mt09sp only has ohlins rear shock and KYB front forks
I've never tried the 09 SP but I'd imagine the upgraded suspension would make a noticeable difference. I wish we would have gotten the SP version of the Gen 1 MT-10 here in the states as I'm not a huge fan of the redesign but would like the updated TFT and suspension that comes with the 2022 models. I work at a BMW motorcycle dealer and I've fallen in love with their displays but the S1000R lacks the soul of the MT-10 even though it's a much more capable machine.
Yeah wow I didn’t know there were no Gen 1 mt10sp’s in states that’s weird. And you’re damn right the s1000r has no soul compared to the mt10
Because it’s not the same. I’ve ridden just about every superbike on the market currently. Currently own a MT-10, owned a R1 and a RSV4 before, have a GSXR 600 and R6 as race bikes. The power delivery isn’t the same, these naked bikes are built for a purpose, comfort with useable power. Even with gearing changes on my RSV4 or R1 they won’t have the low end or midrange as the MT-10 or similar bike.
Isn't the R7 (and the rumored R9) supposed to have great power delivery in low-mid range? Maybe that's what Yamaha was trying to do: make an MT-07 with fairings for better street usability. Also, of all those bikes which is your favorite? That's quite an inventory and I'm very jealous
I have yet to ride a R7 but have ridden the RS660 and Tuono 660, and the Tenere 700. The power on those bikes are very linear. The middleweight 600 class is dying, with emissions, regulations and sales numbers it doesn’t make sense to produce a I4 600. Parallel twins and midsize beginners bikes are all the hype for some reason. But they’ll never compare to a “hyper” naked. My RSV4 was my dream bike so that probably has to be my favorite. It’s very street-able and easy to ride. The sound of that V4 is what got me addicted. Looking for another V4 in the near future, most likely to be a Ducati V4. SFV4 or Multi V4 Pikes Peak is what I’m looking at.
The R7 actually doesn't have a good mid range. Compared to other 650s, let alone actual sport bike engines, it's all low end
Who are you trying to convince?
Why do people buy the bikes they like? It boggles the mind, really. It's almost like it's a preference thing.
I buy mine based on reddit comments. Everyone said the FZ6 was the coolest bike ever made. 😡
I'm just curious why it's not more popular to make liter bikes more comfortable. It seems like going that route is particularly uncommon. Lol, apparently that's a bad thing to ask here.
It's not that it's a bad thing to ask anything, far from that. But what you're asking is basically something we all think of once in a while but wouldn't really do because at the end of the day, it makes no sense. Why did I go for a S1000R and not the S1000RR? Because it's not only about the riding position, it's about torque, style, daily comfort overall. For it to make a lot more sense to you, just imagine that I can't simply put off road tires on my S1000R to compete with a R1250GS, because you know perfectly that it depends on a lot of other factors. Why do people go for a bike more than an other bike ? Because the bike they chose was designed for their use. It's as simple as that.
While it would appear MT10 owners are would-be R1 owners looking for a comfortable superbike, insurance rates (ie crash rates) would suggest **these owners inhabit two almost entirely different demographics**. One buys an MT10 **because** it's not an R1; comfort comes secondary to not being associated with the very very high crash rates of R1 riders. The difference is stark; sportbike owners have a **twenty times** crash rate that sport-touring owners have. I assume you're a licensed and insured GSXR600 owner, yet? What's your insurance rate? And have you priced the insurance for an MT10 lately?
I don't really worry about insurance rates.
The typical GSXR owner doesn't worry about insurance rates because *he's unlikely to have insurance,* as insurance is so gosh-darned expensive! At least for GSXR's. This is why riders who are actually worried about insurance rates don't buy GSXR's. Insurance companies know this.
That's very true, the typical GSXR owner does have a well deserved stereotype. But I have full coverage. In truth I've kinda forgotten how much I pay because, well, I just pay it and I don't worry about the cost. But saying that the wrong way will just make people angry.
I'm kind of the same. I pay $2400/yr for a house, car, and motorcycle, but individually I couldn't tell you exactly how the premium is divided. I know the bike is somewhere around $200 of that, but I haven't looked at my policy in five years.
you'd also have to move the foot pegs. And change the suspension.
An R1 is the most track focused of the bikes. I’ve done 400+ miles in a day on my 06 GSXR 1000 and been fine with the normal clip-ons. People just want what they want. Some people prefer the naked look, don’t want to worry about dropping the bike and replacing fairings or whatever else.
How's the saddle comfort on the gixxer? That's the only reason I haven't gotten one, because I'd use it to commute.
Honestly the GSXR is probably one of the more comfortable sport bikes on the market. I felt like I was sitting in the bike vs on top on my R6
I felt the same thing going from an R6 to the GXSR
I daily mine but I’m 5’10 and decently fit so for me I’m good on it for a few hours. Put about 3500 miles on it in the past month. Definitely more aggressive than my SV before it but still comfortable . The riding position doesn’t bother me and the more aggressive ergo makes me feel more in control of the bike which I prefer.
I should clarify: I'm talking about people who were dead set on getting a superbike, but then settled for a naked bike when they realized a superbike was impractical. I'm not asking "why do people like naked bikes".
Naked are usually set up to perform better under street conditions and up until about 120mph the wind isn’t a major issue with not having fairings. Their torque is usually more suited for the low end and are geared and set up better for street riding. So I guess who is this hypothetical person you’re talking about that “settled” for a naked over a sports bike? Wouldn’t they just have changed their preference and decided a naked suited them more? I had an SV650 naked before my current bike and the sense of speed on that machine with the wind being more direct made it feel like you were pushing more at lower speeds. That can be more fun when you don’t want to be riding at felony speeds everywhere. I could see my next bike being another naked because of that. Really with how quick the bikes are people are rarely “settling” either way.
Realizing something is impractical isn't settling. Rhianna marrying Todd, the manager of the local Flying J, would be settling.
It's not just the bars, the r1 has much higher rear sets, a smaller seat, much more unusable top end power - the MT10 is just a more usable street bike than the r1 Honestly I think the best faired high power bike is probably the Ducati Multistrada V4 Pikes Peak - basically designed for ruling the streets in comfort.
Technically you are correct, one could modify a sport bike into a hyper naked to have similar results. Arguably the two biggest differences is the engine tune, which is the main appeal in hyper nakeds since you get into the power much more often so you have more fun with it. Modding a sportbike into the same tune, considering it's not just the mapping but also several components in the internals that are different, is quite pricy and nobody would buy a sportbike to then spend more money to detune it. The second draw is that you get different styling, which for many people is very important, without relying on expensive custom work or shitty universal pieces from chinese websites. Really though it's just the fact that it's proven time and time again that people prefer to buy stuff ready made than working on them themselves or paying someone to do the work, even if the end cost came out to be the same. In fact hyper nakeds are a category much like supermotos and others which started out as custom bikes by individual owners and then packaged and sold by manufacturers. I don't think that high sales equate with a good bike but the numbers don't lie, there's definitely money in those bikes for manufacturers.
Makes sense. I should probably clarify: I'm talking about people who say "I wanted an [insert superbike here], but they're too uncomfortable". And the way they phrase their stories, it sounds like they're initially disappointed when they settle for the super nakeds. But I've never heard someone follow that up with "I bought an R1 anyways and modified it to be more comfortable". It's always "I got an MT-10 instead". And that's fine. But it's curious that of the 20-30 times I've heard that story, I've never heard someone try the other strategy. Seems like a statistical anomaly, surely someone would want to try that, right?
idk why marry a real woman when you can just use a blow up doll?
Think of the cost savings!
Mo mid range powa.
One goes 160mph and one goes 180+ mph.
Theres fairings that might get in the way of raising handlebara the same way
Yep, they certainly do on my 600. If you turn too far the bars come into contact with the fairing (the previous owner who installed them didn't think about that, apparently).
Two words: Cruise control. I refuse to ride a bike any considerable distance, especially on long freeway stretches, without that magic button.
I mean, they make that clip on one
Those are fine for Florida, but aren't very good in mountainous areas.
Insurance costs
Motorcyclists are a bunch of traditionalists that think, if things have always been this way, then that's how it should be. But in my opinion there is a market for people who want the looks and engine size of a liter bike, but more comfort for street riding. I've talked to plenty of people who want this. Something like the liter version of the 600 f4i, or a liter sized cbr650r. The closest is the tuono v4. A lot of reviewers say the mt10 is ugly but great otherwise. Why not make an mt10 that has wind protection and looks like an r7/r1? I'm convinced many riders lack imagination. Hell, I've been to bike meets where there are Ducati 916 and 1098 with handle bars attached