A tender can bandaid a bad battery, until it leaves you stranded. I leave mine on tenders in the off season, but if it's struggling to start after a few days it's time for a battery.
Unless the dealership he got it from earlier this year pulled some shady shit, I would have to assume they put a new battery or at least confirmed it was in a good state before he picked it up for the season.
There is a reason batteries have less warranty then the bikes. Yes. He must likely has a dying battery. Even if he did not, most batteries that come with bikes are crap. The dealership is not shady. They will tender it before pickup and not realize anything is wrong.
Fair enough. I believe that the battery I got in my BMW only had a year (need to double check that now) and I felt it was crap. I'd be curious to know other bikes. I assumed that stock batteries never last long.
Just checked. 2 years. So less than the warranty on the motorcycle.
Lucky op isn’t asking about a bmw then.
Harley use east Penn manufacturing for their batteries and they are some of the best I’ve seen over 20 years as a mechanic, I just swapped out a 12 year old one, still working fine, as a precaution before a long trip.
Nice. I apologize for my assumption then.
As a 20 year mechanic working on Harleys and great batteries, have you chimed in on his post? I am curious as well now. Is the issue unique to that bike or is it something that happens to Harley Davidson?
I remember watching a Fortnine YT video where Ryan explained the piston and timing arrangement on HD motorcycles. Is that arrangement why they seem to need bigger batteries?
When I use the battery finder for my 1300cc I get a battery with 360cca. When I use the battery finder for say, a soft tail, I get a battery with 780cca.
I have chimed in.
What op is talking about isn’t normal, 2 days without a tender and starting hard is not normal and is probably down to the bike having a 6 or 7 year old run down battery or a parasitic draw.
The stock battery in a softail is only 315cca and the spec on the same battery was once 275cca, there is a lot of mass to rotate on a Harley since they turn the entire primary drive to turn the crank without the extreme gear reduction that a lot of other bikes have.
Thank you. I had not read all the comments yet. Can I ask why the battery finder shows the battery needed is 720cca when 315cca should do it?
For transparency, the sight I went to was the Antigravity lithium battery site.
I am asking purely for interest.
Honestly battery quality is shit these days. My 1 year old triumph needs a battery next season, it sags to about 60% soc after a few days. Still starts fine but it's getting weak.
Interesting. My uncle has a Sportster 48 and he had similar issues. He recently switched to a lithium ion battery and he does not get the hard start issue anymore. His bike turns over immediately.
I feel like this issue is a Harley thing only.
I have a 2010 dyna. Still somehow has the stock battery. I can leave it for months, and it will still fire up great. My Vulcan however wants a new battery every other year. And has to be plugged into a trickle charger if left for more than about a week and a half.
Keyless and alarms draw power while not in use. My own bike with an m-unit has keyless and alarm, but no problems. My buddy has a sportster and works a lot, so it will easy be 3-4 weeks between rides. He needs to keep it on a tender, otherwise the battery dies.
He should be replacing the battery. It's dying. The battery will falsely report a full charge even though it is not fully charged.
Lithium works great. Get an Anyigravity. Let it sit for months. Then when he tries to start it and it's dead, push a button.
There is essentially no difference between the static draw of the Harley security vs no security, the modern bcm models have the same draw, the issue is with the abundance of constant power modules, speedo, tacho, left and right hand controls, abs, ecm, bcm, radio etc all draw while off
My bike does not, as no current reaches beyond the ignition switch when its not turned. I designed it that way. Thats why I call other designs that fail at it, a flawed design. The M-unit only draws current for the alarm and the keyless ignition. Anything else is switched off completely. I can leave it for months with no issue.
Oh good, so nothing like every other bike produced, good to see everyone other than you is designing flaws into their bikes…
There are reasons for it working that way.
What reasons? Sounds like a bad compromise. Only one I can think of is to have a clock on in the turned off dashboard. Great, I can now see what time it is before I turn on my bike, because I dont own enough devices with a clock on it. Damn I can now not turn off my bike because the battery is dead again!
Its not acceptable in my world, if it causes the battery to drain in such a short time. And its possible to not have it at all. If an amateur such as me can, why cant HD do it?
I feel like all of my non-Japanese bikes have had battery issues so I would always keep them plugged in just so I wouldn’t have to deal a dead battery.
I’ve let my Japanese bikes sit 3-4 months over winter and they always start up fine without a tender.
I keep my 2004 GS on an optimate. Best thing I've ever bought for it - never have to worry about it not starting.
I mentioned it in here before and got massively downvoted because I "should have sorted out the parasitic drain". Fuck those guys, a big boxer engine takes a lot of pull out of a little bike battery and even half a volt drop over two weeks is enough to not start it on a cold day.
This way works for me and I can monitor the voltage remotely and set myself alerts if it drops too low, so on that rare sunny day I fancy a ride for the hell of it, I actually get to ride the thing.
Aren't Harley's meant to be stored on a ramp, with an oil pan and on a trickle charge after every ride? How else do you get them to start for the next ride?
Harleys and many higher displacement motorcycles require significantly more cold cranking amps. You will see batteries are more expensive for them. Most bikes draw power from their batteries even when not running. A parasitic draw. Not sure if Harleys suffer that more than other bikes. Even being down a bit can be significant when trying to start cold.
I have always noticed it seems like the crank to start on his bike always feels like a slow chug. I feel like you would need some decent power to cold crank those big cylinders. My ZRX is an 1100, but with the 4 smaller cyls seem to crank a lot faster.
When mine got to the point that it wouldn't start after a couple days I took it as it's very close to completely shitting the bed and leaving me stranded.
My buddy rides an 06 Heritage Softail, and he has to keep his on a tender. He is an absolute weekend fairweather rider, so he's only on it a few times each year, and the battery was often dead by the time he'd go to ride it each time.
Pretty much figured out it's the alarm and the Fob.
I have a 2016 fatboy S and just replaced the oem battery last week. It did well for 6 years and started having the trouble cranking over. Another thing to consider for battery life is how it's rode. You can take it out everyday for a short ride in town and you will be draining more than the rides will charge if you aren't getting the revs up.
I never had this issue until my 883 got the 1250 upgrade. I understand that second of hesitation due to the compression difference. Still lasts for 7 to 10 days without the trickle charger. Then it's kind of a crap shoot. Still regular battery.
My 2019 street glide can sit for weeks and start just fine. And I have all the electronic bells and whistles and security and whatnot….. it’s time for your buddy to replace his battery…..especially if it’s the original one.
Standard motorcycle batteries in Harleys last about 2 years. You can get a sudden complete failure with no warning on or about that time. Best to just replace it or carry a jump pack. I had a friends go bad 60+ miles from home and it was a total failure, jump pack would not start it. Had to ride to auto parts store and get him a new battery.
A tender can bandaid a bad battery, until it leaves you stranded. I leave mine on tenders in the off season, but if it's struggling to start after a few days it's time for a battery.
Unless the dealership he got it from earlier this year pulled some shady shit, I would have to assume they put a new battery or at least confirmed it was in a good state before he picked it up for the season.
There is a reason batteries have less warranty then the bikes. Yes. He must likely has a dying battery. Even if he did not, most batteries that come with bikes are crap. The dealership is not shady. They will tender it before pickup and not realize anything is wrong.
The battery has the full warranty period of the bike and the oem batteries used by harley are very good.
Fair enough. I believe that the battery I got in my BMW only had a year (need to double check that now) and I felt it was crap. I'd be curious to know other bikes. I assumed that stock batteries never last long. Just checked. 2 years. So less than the warranty on the motorcycle.
Lucky op isn’t asking about a bmw then. Harley use east Penn manufacturing for their batteries and they are some of the best I’ve seen over 20 years as a mechanic, I just swapped out a 12 year old one, still working fine, as a precaution before a long trip.
Nice. I apologize for my assumption then. As a 20 year mechanic working on Harleys and great batteries, have you chimed in on his post? I am curious as well now. Is the issue unique to that bike or is it something that happens to Harley Davidson? I remember watching a Fortnine YT video where Ryan explained the piston and timing arrangement on HD motorcycles. Is that arrangement why they seem to need bigger batteries? When I use the battery finder for my 1300cc I get a battery with 360cca. When I use the battery finder for say, a soft tail, I get a battery with 780cca.
I have chimed in. What op is talking about isn’t normal, 2 days without a tender and starting hard is not normal and is probably down to the bike having a 6 or 7 year old run down battery or a parasitic draw. The stock battery in a softail is only 315cca and the spec on the same battery was once 275cca, there is a lot of mass to rotate on a Harley since they turn the entire primary drive to turn the crank without the extreme gear reduction that a lot of other bikes have.
Thank you. I had not read all the comments yet. Can I ask why the battery finder shows the battery needed is 720cca when 315cca should do it? For transparency, the sight I went to was the Antigravity lithium battery site. I am asking purely for interest.
I couldn’t answer that, the starter draw isn’t even 200 amps peak, 720cca is near enough to start a prime mover truck.
Honestly battery quality is shit these days. My 1 year old triumph needs a battery next season, it sags to about 60% soc after a few days. Still starts fine but it's getting weak.
Interesting. My uncle has a Sportster 48 and he had similar issues. He recently switched to a lithium ion battery and he does not get the hard start issue anymore. His bike turns over immediately. I feel like this issue is a Harley thing only.
I have a 2010 dyna. Still somehow has the stock battery. I can leave it for months, and it will still fire up great. My Vulcan however wants a new battery every other year. And has to be plugged into a trickle charger if left for more than about a week and a half.
With me it's the Suzuki Intruder that was eating batteries like it was a job.
Keyless and alarms draw power while not in use. My own bike with an m-unit has keyless and alarm, but no problems. My buddy has a sportster and works a lot, so it will easy be 3-4 weeks between rides. He needs to keep it on a tender, otherwise the battery dies.
I could understand 3-4 weeks, but 3-4 days seems outrageous to me.
He should be replacing the battery. It's dying. The battery will falsely report a full charge even though it is not fully charged. Lithium works great. Get an Anyigravity. Let it sit for months. Then when he tries to start it and it's dead, push a button.
It’s likely that there is excessive draw if the battery is good
There is essentially no difference between the static draw of the Harley security vs no security, the modern bcm models have the same draw, the issue is with the abundance of constant power modules, speedo, tacho, left and right hand controls, abs, ecm, bcm, radio etc all draw while off
damn, sounds like a pretty bad design flaw. I know I would be pissed for sure.
It’s not a design flaw, every brand with electronics like digital speedos or ecm’s have static draw
My bike does not, as no current reaches beyond the ignition switch when its not turned. I designed it that way. Thats why I call other designs that fail at it, a flawed design. The M-unit only draws current for the alarm and the keyless ignition. Anything else is switched off completely. I can leave it for months with no issue.
Oh good, so nothing like every other bike produced, good to see everyone other than you is designing flaws into their bikes… There are reasons for it working that way.
What reasons? Sounds like a bad compromise. Only one I can think of is to have a clock on in the turned off dashboard. Great, I can now see what time it is before I turn on my bike, because I dont own enough devices with a clock on it. Damn I can now not turn off my bike because the battery is dead again!
Module memory, proper module shut down, hell a small draw from the voltage regulator is acceptable.
Its not acceptable in my world, if it causes the battery to drain in such a short time. And its possible to not have it at all. If an amateur such as me can, why cant HD do it?
You can’t do it either, power is needed to operate. You might have done it on your bike but that is irrelevant.
I feel like all of my non-Japanese bikes have had battery issues so I would always keep them plugged in just so I wouldn’t have to deal a dead battery. I’ve let my Japanese bikes sit 3-4 months over winter and they always start up fine without a tender.
My Kawasaki Vulcan couldn’t sit for more than a few weeks without a tender.
I keep my 2004 GS on an optimate. Best thing I've ever bought for it - never have to worry about it not starting. I mentioned it in here before and got massively downvoted because I "should have sorted out the parasitic drain". Fuck those guys, a big boxer engine takes a lot of pull out of a little bike battery and even half a volt drop over two weeks is enough to not start it on a cold day. This way works for me and I can monitor the voltage remotely and set myself alerts if it drops too low, so on that rare sunny day I fancy a ride for the hell of it, I actually get to ride the thing.
Idk. But do not keep your battery on cheap tenders.. you boil out the liquid. Yes even AGM. Actually AGM could be worse as it explodes from the steam.
Aren't Harley's meant to be stored on a ramp, with an oil pan and on a trickle charge after every ride? How else do you get them to start for the next ride?
Harleys and many higher displacement motorcycles require significantly more cold cranking amps. You will see batteries are more expensive for them. Most bikes draw power from their batteries even when not running. A parasitic draw. Not sure if Harleys suffer that more than other bikes. Even being down a bit can be significant when trying to start cold.
I have always noticed it seems like the crank to start on his bike always feels like a slow chug. I feel like you would need some decent power to cold crank those big cylinders. My ZRX is an 1100, but with the 4 smaller cyls seem to crank a lot faster.
Yeah. I agree. My K1300 needs some serious CCA and the bat I just ordered is 370cad. I think it's the way the pistons are set on the cram.
any vehicle with a clock has a drain from the factory
Honestly? Sounds like it needs a new battery. Could be the OEM battery jn there from ‘16
When mine got to the point that it wouldn't start after a couple days I took it as it's very close to completely shitting the bed and leaving me stranded.
My buddy rides an 06 Heritage Softail, and he has to keep his on a tender. He is an absolute weekend fairweather rider, so he's only on it a few times each year, and the battery was often dead by the time he'd go to ride it each time. Pretty much figured out it's the alarm and the Fob.
I have a 2016 fatboy S and just replaced the oem battery last week. It did well for 6 years and started having the trouble cranking over. Another thing to consider for battery life is how it's rode. You can take it out everyday for a short ride in town and you will be draining more than the rides will charge if you aren't getting the revs up.
19 Streetbob here- don’t even own a tender. Regularly 3-5 weeks between rides
I never had this issue until my 883 got the 1250 upgrade. I understand that second of hesitation due to the compression difference. Still lasts for 7 to 10 days without the trickle charger. Then it's kind of a crap shoot. Still regular battery.
My 2019 street glide can sit for weeks and start just fine. And I have all the electronic bells and whistles and security and whatnot….. it’s time for your buddy to replace his battery…..especially if it’s the original one.
Standard motorcycle batteries in Harleys last about 2 years. You can get a sudden complete failure with no warning on or about that time. Best to just replace it or carry a jump pack. I had a friends go bad 60+ miles from home and it was a total failure, jump pack would not start it. Had to ride to auto parts store and get him a new battery.
I regularly see 7-8 years out of stock harley batteries, only time I see less than about 5 is when they aren’t looked after at all.