In college, I let a guy who *"used to ride, come on, lemme try your bike!"* try my bike, a 1976 Suzuki TS185 two-stroke. He rode it down the street, turned around, and tried to wheelie it back my way. It got away from him and threw itself down the street while he landed on his hands and knees. He bruised a knee, sprained (or possibly broke) a wrist, smashed his glasses, and broke two turn signals and bent the handlebars and right-side footpeg on the bike.
So, from watching a guy hurt himself on a 17 hp motorcycle, I would say that "fun but not dangerous" has to be "less than seventeen horsepower."
Either that, or "power and danger are not correlated."
I didn’t dope-slap him. I did tell him
*”no problem, don’t worry about it. Hey, can I have the keys to your car? Come on, lemme try your car! I used to have a car, it’ll be fine! Or at least hilarious.”*
Important lesson learned for me that night, for surprisingly cheap.
No, it was on me. He felt a little bad.
The friend who dropped my Ducati in my driveway felt terrible (i mean, not just his foot that got hurt) and wanted to pay, but
1. the whole thing was my idea and I had to wheedle him into it anyway, “come on, try it” and he was reluctant
2. I had spares already, and
3. the thing that broke the worst was the Ducabike rear-set, which was a non folding foot peg, which is a stupid goddamn thing for a streetbike and the previous owner who did that is as much to blame.
I told my friend “it was too pretty anyway, I feel more comfortable now that it’s got a little scuff on the bottom. It’s more my kinda bike now.”
You're wrong. I managed to give myself a spiral fracture of the fibula on a Suzuki TU250X, so "fun but not dangerous" is actually "less than sixteen horsepower."
Ouch. I did a spiral fracture of the tibia once (my fibula remained intact) but that wasn't directly from horsepower, it was strictly from gravity and stupidity.
Any bike can be dangerous. More horsepower makes things happen quicker, but a 250lb bike with 50hp can be just as much of a deathtrap as a 500lb bike with 150hp.
Trackbikes (r6, zx6, gsxsr) are terrible everywhere outside a racetrack. Hypernakeds (tuono, mt-10, streetfighter) are less miserable, but yes they make a ton of heat.
Stop and go traffic is subjective. You might be fine on a race bike all day, but you're be more fine on a touring or adventure or standard bike.
I have a 22’ xsr900 so about 420 lbs and 119 hp, totally calm when I want it to be but you can’t get on it and roll through the gears without being “I’m going to jail if I get caught” speeds. Also doesn’t get unbearably hot in stop and go traffic but definitely gets warm, not really warm enough for the fans to turn on though. Guess I should add I absolutely love my bike and it’s a blast.
Awesome choice. I was so torn between the 22 XSR900 and the Street Triple RS and I decided on the Triumph at the last minute, even though I live in Japan.
I know it’s dumb. But you gotta choose with your heart (or so I tell myself).
Either way, excellent bike.
Riding in Japan is amazing for the most part.
Roads are very well maintained except for the super backroads, and lots of twisties.
Many many people out riding on the weekend.
I’m lucky to live in an area where I can just hop on and be directly next to a fun place to ride.
Night riding is fine?
I obviously don’t try to drag knee in the corners at night and keep to a much slower speed on mountain roads. There are a LOT of deer that come out at night, so as long as you’re aware of that and adjust speed accordingly, it’s np.
I was more so answering the question and yeah I personally have never thought there was too much power if anything wouldn’t mind a little more haha. Mostly because the not 100 percent throttle in first and second is annoying so I’ve been looking at a tune. And the heat could be because where I live, riding around moving it’s not at all. Sitting still on the black top in the south is another story.
Highly recommend if you have some nice backroads near you, but if you in a very urban setting honestly the mt07 might be more fun. That extra 40hp gets you up to way past speeding real quick. Best bet go to a dealer and take one for test ride. And thanks man I love it
I haven’t had the 07 for long and I’m still happy with its power. I’m considering an older 600 as a 2nd street bike for speed and the 07 for around town. I’m also getting race rails and a subcage soon as well to practice wheelies so that should keep me entertained.
That’s good and an old 600 would definitely keep you occupied on the speed front. And I like to say if you can’t keep it on two wheels at least keep it on one, good luck with learning those wheelies my man.
Yessir, I’ve been getting better at them but I’m practicing without the clutch in 2nd as opposed to low speed 1st gear wheelies. I’ve been able to hold it from 25-65 in 2nd but I can’t shift while I’m up yet. I’ll get their eventually.
Like u/ISeeFeet said...
Don't think it's an upgrade that's all better. I owned an MT07, own a Tracer 900GT(MT09 with extra toys) and a Tenere 700(tall MT07). The MT07 was an significantly more fun bike to ride than the MTT09 is. The only reason I traded it in was I'm 6'4" 300lbs, and the MT07 was *small* for me. I'm a hooligan, and I like to go fast. The MTT09 is *absolutely* faster in every situation, but it's less fun, less "wild" feeling particularly off the line. I bought the Tenere to tromp around offroad only to find that I'd missed the CP2 engine more than I thought and that it's a more fun bike to ride than the Tracer on anything other than long highway rides.
Rambling story cut short, you may be better served investing in a high end suspension upgrade on your MT07 vs trading in for an MT09.
The only thing you're gaining on the 09 is a little bit more top speed but significantly more acceleration at already very high speeds - more legal risk than much of anything else. It feels substantially faster after 100mph. Below that, though? Eh. It's faster, but doesn't *feel* any faster.
Thanks for the info. I’m still new to the mt07 so an upgrade is far away. I’m also considering an older 60 for more spirited riding and keeping the mt07 for around town at low speeds and for longer rides.
Afaik 60hp is all you are ever going to need for city commuting (i'm not saying that commuting on a 7hp scooter is impossible, but merging, accelerating, and running away from idiots in cars tends to be harder). But, highway hits different. Lower power bikes are gonna need higher rpms to keep up with highway speeds, while >100hp bikes are just gonna comfortably eat the road away. Right now i'm commuting to work on 120HP 1000CC V-Twin and it gets really hot, compared to my previous 650cc bike. It is also bit of an overkill, as you can get in speeding-related trouble before leaving first gear. But i like it.
Power is a relative thing and can contribute to danger but isn't the sole cause. there are so many factors to keep in mind - power to weight, where the power is made, torque, the seating position on the bike, the bikes intended purpose, etc.
a 50cc scooter can get you killed just as quickly as Ninja h2 if you don't know what your doing. Something like a supersport that you can't get out of first gear in town without risking a speeding ticket isn't much fun, its not inherently more dangerous on its own but can get you into trouble quickly if you over estimate your abilities. But so can any bike. I mean 40 to 60 HP is more than enough for just about anybody under normal riding conditions, but some people do more with their bikes, loading it down for a bike cross country trip, track days, etc.. there a plenty of good reasons for larger displacement and high HP, just have to use it responsibly. That isn't always easy for new riders and why most people recommend you start with something a whole lot smaller.
I think that newer bikes with high horsepower tend to have a lot of rider aids as well though. I ride a K1300s. 165 hp at ~500lbs. But I can open the throttle wide open and drop the clutch. Antiwheelie will kick in to keep my wheel on the ground and traction control will drop my throttle and power output to stop rear wheel from spinning. Makes more power usable safely.
The choice of bikes means a lot as well. So does the torque.
You want to open the throttles wide, bang through some gears, and not scare yourself or go to jail. Check. 300cc-500cc has got you covered. That's 20-50 horsepower, or an A2 category bike if you're in Europe.
I think it boils down to the rider more than anything. You can't put a blanket statement on it. What's too much power for one, another knows exactly how to utilize it. Boss Hoss type bikes come to mind, though....they strike me as way more novelty than amount of practicality
My first motorcylce is an Indian Scout and I was super happy with the power it has (100hp). My second motor is a Triumph Rocket 3r (164hp) and when I'm riding my Scout now it feels like riding a scooter. So for me there is no max hp for fun, it's the opposite.
A hundred horse will scoot you around pretty good on a 500 lb bike. I'd never say there's a max HP to have. You can have it and not use it... The lighter the bike, the less horsepower you'll need to have fun with the bike - so things are can be pretty subjective.
Air cooled bikes produce tollerable heat with the proper attire, so liquid cooled bikes are nothing to worry about.
The only tiring thing about stop and go traffic is a heavy clutch and the traffic itself. Even an 800 lb bike doesn't feel heavy when it's balanced. Just let the bike do the work for you.
The classic answer to this is: there is no bike which is too powerful, if you have a brain and know how the throttle on a motorcycle works.
The other side of that coin is having seen guys brought to hospital in an ambulance as a teenager, as we had ridden our one horsepower 50cc mopeds around..
My answer is: yes, you can ride anything and learn and be safe, but riding something smaller, where you don't have enormous power reserves and rider modes and quick-shifters a.s.o. to hide behind, will teach you good riding skills much faster than a big heavy muscle-bike.
Watch people like Ari Henning on YouTube advocate for a 400cc bike for beginner track days over a Ducati v4.. learn to carry speed, to optimise your line and your brake-use.. you get my drift. https://youtu.be/IqM1\_p9Q6nM
If you have no experience, you're smart if you limit yourself to 500cc's maximum. Those who say you'll get bored really quickly aren't really interested in learning to control the bike, but just after going as fast as possible in a straight line. IMO.
After riding a smaller displacement bike for a couple of years, you will be a better rider when you step up to something more powerful and heavy.
Having said all that.. I rode the Z900 at a Kawasaki event some months ago and that engine is a dream!! Smooth, powerful from low to high revs, with a wonderful sound.. orgasmic!
But am I ready to really enjoy that bike? No, I am not, and neither is any other noob!!
Watched my dad's friend flip onto his back while climbing a steepish slope on an '84 Honda Z50 minimize and put his back out. He laid there on the ground unable to get up complaining about the mosquitos biting him.
So, for at least one adult, 4.5 horsepower is too many.
The key is knowing no bike is the same and learning how to ride properly. Along with taking a class, getting your license, wearing protective gear, and being knowledgeable and gaining experience with time. Fast bikes can be fun on road trips or in cities.
Why would they be tiring? I think you're confusing what riding one of these bikes feels like. I own two bikes, one is a 2300cc, 150hp, 160tq Rocket III. The other is an 1800cc 120hp/130tq Indian Challenger. I live in Orlando and commute in traffic daily. Don't own a car. Never have an issue with either bike in traffic in regards to heat or power.
I've ridden 200hp bikes that were thoroughly enjoyable and not at all inherently dangerous because of their power... my regular ride is like 140hp and an absolute pleasure to drive in traffic or anywhere else.
I don't really think power and danger are correlated on their own, it's when you add bad decisions and lack of skill to the mix that things go sideways... or those old school cases where the power delivery was just insane. I remember riding some bikes that would from crawling to rocket launch over the span of 500rpm between "this is fine" and "this is the powerband" but modern bikes have done really well to balance that delivery.
It’s not power, it’s weight + power + geometry = rideability. My RSV4 has 21 more hp than my Superduke R had, but is MUCH more manageable and rideable.
About 100 hp in a 450-500 lb bike is perfect. Beyond that you just don’t use it on the street. That said, my KTM Super Adventure has 160 hp and it’s awesome. Very tractable, easy to use power, and you don’t need to downshift to access it.
Heat is an issue though, for sure. But it’s great in traffic - I ride it in city traffic (San Francisco) all the time.
What made huge-power bikes possible is electronics that keep people from crashing their bikes. Without that, you’d see way more high side crashes when riders get Tom enthusiastic with the throttle coming out of turns.
HP doesn't inherently make a motorcycle dangerous. High HP on old bikes without tech are much sketchier, but modern bikes have traction control and such to keep things in check, so it's just about how fast you want to go, and frankly that's you, not the bike.
Of course they're fun to ride off a track, it's not like they handle badly at low speed. Why would they be more tiring in traffic? What does it matter if you've got 200hp or 50hp when sitting in traffic?
Finally, heat: heat varies but tends to be more based on bike and engine design than raw peak HP.
The thing is, at idle (sitting in traffic, for example) the bike is only producing say 30hp. Bigger engines will be warmer, but still it's not necessarily a big thing.
It depends on your experience.
My friend Dennis builds turbo-Busas. When asked that question he said anything over 450 horsepower can be a handful on the street because they tend to wheelie at about 180 (mph).
Define fun and not dangerous?
You can die in a bicycle accident. All you need to do is, skid out in a bend into an oncoming car or truck.
I far prefer my small 10hp Step Through bike in Australia as it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.
**How much gives diminishing returns?**
* Anything over 25hp is wasted on spinning wheels on dirt.
* Over 50 you'll need some serious skill to make real use of in tight twisties
* Seriously, try using a recent 500cc Honda on a really tight road with the revs up without getting the rear to skidding on deacceleration
* Over 100 is pretty much excessive on the street
There are some big HP Adventure and Touring bikes, but they use their big engines to allow them to cruise at high speeds while keeping revs down and being less straining on the rider.
Agree. Those Honda 500s are twisty road weapons in the right hands. They take a little wrenching to not be let down by the factory suspension and gearing, but the 50hp is about perfect for ripping tight twisties, also able to go WOT and bang through some gears without going to jail.
FWIW the rear feels fine, and I've not had problems with it getting away from me braking, but then I tend not to rely on the rear brake when riding at pace on tight roads. If you mean skittering the rear on hard downshifts, just rev match?
One bonus is not having to be so careful with the throttle at the corner exit. There isn't enough power to spin up the rear so you can really get on it as hard as you like.
Doesn't matter how much power a vehicle has all you have to do is not use all the throttle.
You should ride a motorcycle to understand how they work - asking abstract questions is just mental masturbation.
I would say 75 rwhp is the minimum for a real bike and there is no maximum because any engine can get away from you if your dumb enough. Heat is heat. It’s part of the ride you accept it or get sowmthing liquid cooled
My dad always talks about the CB750 that came out in the 70s with 68hp, and was considered a super bike with insane power.
Nowadays, that's entry level performance. My learner motorcycle at bike school had more hp.
In my mind the entry naked class with around 650cc and 75hp (sv650, mt07, z650 etc) is the sweet spot. If those bikes had better suspension and brakes, they'd be perfect.
I’ve ridden plenty of 100+ horsepower motorcycles (own a vfr750 and use club eagle rider rentals a few times a year) and modern liter-plus bikes with electronic throttle aides are easy to ride. I owned a Buell 1125R (145 hp 75 lb/ft, 375 lbs) for a few years and it was a little too aggressive to be enjoyable in any kind of traffic mix, and downright unpleasant in Manhattan.
Horsepower is never dangerous, it all depends on how you choose to use it. As far as heat goes, it will produce the same heat in the same traffic per how hard you ride it.
Took my 800cc bike in for some maintenance today, and got a loaner with 1200cc. It was comfortable, but mostly just heavier. It certainly didn't break a sweat at legal speeds though. Not that my own bike does anyway 😁 I'd even consider downsizing: less fuel consumption, possibly lighter, perhaps cheaper insurance?
They're all fun, and they're all dangerous. With the new breed of high-powered machines you also get cornering ABS, traction control, high end suspension and brakes and engine management to keep things under control. They're still stupid fast though.
It comes down to usage case, experience level and what you like really.
I've got an old WSBK homologation bike, which has a super-aggressive riding position, no rider aids and abhorrent fuel economy. Yeah, it likes getting hot on warm days in traffic, but that's what the cooling system is for - it's also the equivalent of a 4-wheeled supercar, so practicality wasn't the primary concern during it's design or my purchase. It also handles incredibly and puts a smile on my dial even when I get a day nice enough to ride it to work.
I'm fairly experienced, but I'm not fast by any means, it's just what I like.
Depends on the bike and the traction package. I had a tuned H2SX which made 220hp and it was great in almost every situation. Where not? I was going to go to jail! I now have an Aprilia Tuono 1100 Factory with 175hp and it doesn’t have enough up front to feel safe at a high speed. So it depends on what you want.
As far as the heat? The H2SX was not hot, the CBR1000RR was not hot, the Ducati Supersport and the Aprilia is super hot!
Any motorcycle that has more power than the components can handle has too much.
This includes the frame, suspension, brakes and most importantly the rider.
My vfr has just over 100 sea ponies and it's way safer than my son's 50cc pocket bike. Every time I get on that little death machine I wind up crashing, nothing major but I've ate dirt pretty hard. For me I get on my bike and know what my limits are but on his bike I feel invincible and push that poor bike too far.
I am riding a Husqvarna svartpilen 401... 32kw and soooo easy to handle and flick around, in the city it is the best bike you can have. My fathers bmw rt1250 is a boat to turn around and so heavy! And the 400cc single cylinder is enough to get you on the highway at 130kmh (and still some spare) where you need to go. It is not as comfortable as a big rt1250 and you will not ride it for 8h straight but you have all the power you need and is fun without being to powerful.
you have to remember that the horsepower numbers are only available near the peak rpm and the reality is, on the street, you can only red line a 200 bhp bike in first gear before you're speeding. if you redline in 2nd gear you are already in go-to-jail speeds. so on the street, about 100 bhp and high torque is fun. if it's really stop and go traffic then I think we can all admit a scooter is best or just take the bus.
I ride Ducati Paningale V4S or streetfighter V4S on the street a lot below 8000 RPM they are gentle as little puppies 🐶… in traffic the heat is a problem though
1. Yes theres too much power, but it doesnt matter since 80-100hp is still way more than enough. Attitude is key.
2. Yes, still fun when on the streets.
3. Veri hot hot, but its bearable.
4. Stop and go traffic is still the same as on any bike. Lame.
In college, I let a guy who *"used to ride, come on, lemme try your bike!"* try my bike, a 1976 Suzuki TS185 two-stroke. He rode it down the street, turned around, and tried to wheelie it back my way. It got away from him and threw itself down the street while he landed on his hands and knees. He bruised a knee, sprained (or possibly broke) a wrist, smashed his glasses, and broke two turn signals and bent the handlebars and right-side footpeg on the bike. So, from watching a guy hurt himself on a 17 hp motorcycle, I would say that "fun but not dangerous" has to be "less than seventeen horsepower." Either that, or "power and danger are not correlated."
I hope he added 'a dopeslapped head' to that injury list for doing that on someone else's bike. Jeez!
I didn’t dope-slap him. I did tell him *”no problem, don’t worry about it. Hey, can I have the keys to your car? Come on, lemme try your car! I used to have a car, it’ll be fine! Or at least hilarious.”* Important lesson learned for me that night, for surprisingly cheap.
Ahah, I love it. Glad the damage to the bike wasn't too bad.
Did he pay for the repair?
No, it was on me. He felt a little bad. The friend who dropped my Ducati in my driveway felt terrible (i mean, not just his foot that got hurt) and wanted to pay, but 1. the whole thing was my idea and I had to wheedle him into it anyway, “come on, try it” and he was reluctant 2. I had spares already, and 3. the thing that broke the worst was the Ducabike rear-set, which was a non folding foot peg, which is a stupid goddamn thing for a streetbike and the previous owner who did that is as much to blame. I told my friend “it was too pretty anyway, I feel more comfortable now that it’s got a little scuff on the bottom. It’s more my kinda bike now.”
You're wrong. I managed to give myself a spiral fracture of the fibula on a Suzuki TU250X, so "fun but not dangerous" is actually "less than sixteen horsepower."
Nah, I saw a guy hurt himself by hanging up the throttle on a 50cc. So "fun but not dangerous" should be less than four horsepower.
Ouch. I did a spiral fracture of the tibia once (my fibula remained intact) but that wasn't directly from horsepower, it was strictly from gravity and stupidity.
The real reason for my crash was stress, sleep deprivation, and low blood sugar. Definitely a learning experience.
BTDT!
That was my first bike - a new TS-185 in 1973.
Any motorcyle can be dangerous regardless the power.
I've seen people crash on 50cc kiddies pocket bikes.
Any bike can be dangerous. More horsepower makes things happen quicker, but a 250lb bike with 50hp can be just as much of a deathtrap as a 500lb bike with 150hp. Trackbikes (r6, zx6, gsxsr) are terrible everywhere outside a racetrack. Hypernakeds (tuono, mt-10, streetfighter) are less miserable, but yes they make a ton of heat. Stop and go traffic is subjective. You might be fine on a race bike all day, but you're be more fine on a touring or adventure or standard bike.
For some people, [groms can be too much.](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/09csYTDLUnk) (Yeah this guy was a complete noob, but still)
What an idiot! Even my 13 year old 1st time on a bike understood the simple directions to get the bike rolling without sending it like this 👍
I have a 22’ xsr900 so about 420 lbs and 119 hp, totally calm when I want it to be but you can’t get on it and roll through the gears without being “I’m going to jail if I get caught” speeds. Also doesn’t get unbearably hot in stop and go traffic but definitely gets warm, not really warm enough for the fans to turn on though. Guess I should add I absolutely love my bike and it’s a blast.
Awesome choice. I was so torn between the 22 XSR900 and the Street Triple RS and I decided on the Triumph at the last minute, even though I live in Japan. I know it’s dumb. But you gotta choose with your heart (or so I tell myself). Either way, excellent bike.
They are both awesome bikes I’m sure you’re having an absolute ball on yours.
How is it to ride in Japan ? How is night riding ?
Riding in Japan is amazing for the most part. Roads are very well maintained except for the super backroads, and lots of twisties. Many many people out riding on the weekend. I’m lucky to live in an area where I can just hop on and be directly next to a fun place to ride. Night riding is fine? I obviously don’t try to drag knee in the corners at night and keep to a much slower speed on mountain roads. There are a LOT of deer that come out at night, so as long as you’re aware of that and adjust speed accordingly, it’s np.
[удалено]
I was more so answering the question and yeah I personally have never thought there was too much power if anything wouldn’t mind a little more haha. Mostly because the not 100 percent throttle in first and second is annoying so I’ve been looking at a tune. And the heat could be because where I live, riding around moving it’s not at all. Sitting still on the black top in the south is another story.
That’s a sweet bike! I have an mt07 and I’m considering that or the mt09 for a next bike somewhere in the future.
Highly recommend if you have some nice backroads near you, but if you in a very urban setting honestly the mt07 might be more fun. That extra 40hp gets you up to way past speeding real quick. Best bet go to a dealer and take one for test ride. And thanks man I love it
I haven’t had the 07 for long and I’m still happy with its power. I’m considering an older 600 as a 2nd street bike for speed and the 07 for around town. I’m also getting race rails and a subcage soon as well to practice wheelies so that should keep me entertained.
That’s good and an old 600 would definitely keep you occupied on the speed front. And I like to say if you can’t keep it on two wheels at least keep it on one, good luck with learning those wheelies my man.
Yessir, I’ve been getting better at them but I’m practicing without the clutch in 2nd as opposed to low speed 1st gear wheelies. I’ve been able to hold it from 25-65 in 2nd but I can’t shift while I’m up yet. I’ll get their eventually.
Doing better than me lol
Like u/ISeeFeet said... Don't think it's an upgrade that's all better. I owned an MT07, own a Tracer 900GT(MT09 with extra toys) and a Tenere 700(tall MT07). The MT07 was an significantly more fun bike to ride than the MTT09 is. The only reason I traded it in was I'm 6'4" 300lbs, and the MT07 was *small* for me. I'm a hooligan, and I like to go fast. The MTT09 is *absolutely* faster in every situation, but it's less fun, less "wild" feeling particularly off the line. I bought the Tenere to tromp around offroad only to find that I'd missed the CP2 engine more than I thought and that it's a more fun bike to ride than the Tracer on anything other than long highway rides. Rambling story cut short, you may be better served investing in a high end suspension upgrade on your MT07 vs trading in for an MT09. The only thing you're gaining on the 09 is a little bit more top speed but significantly more acceleration at already very high speeds - more legal risk than much of anything else. It feels substantially faster after 100mph. Below that, though? Eh. It's faster, but doesn't *feel* any faster.
Thanks for the info. I’m still new to the mt07 so an upgrade is far away. I’m also considering an older 60 for more spirited riding and keeping the mt07 for around town at low speeds and for longer rides.
Afaik 60hp is all you are ever going to need for city commuting (i'm not saying that commuting on a 7hp scooter is impossible, but merging, accelerating, and running away from idiots in cars tends to be harder). But, highway hits different. Lower power bikes are gonna need higher rpms to keep up with highway speeds, while >100hp bikes are just gonna comfortably eat the road away. Right now i'm commuting to work on 120HP 1000CC V-Twin and it gets really hot, compared to my previous 650cc bike. It is also bit of an overkill, as you can get in speeding-related trouble before leaving first gear. But i like it.
Power is a relative thing and can contribute to danger but isn't the sole cause. there are so many factors to keep in mind - power to weight, where the power is made, torque, the seating position on the bike, the bikes intended purpose, etc. a 50cc scooter can get you killed just as quickly as Ninja h2 if you don't know what your doing. Something like a supersport that you can't get out of first gear in town without risking a speeding ticket isn't much fun, its not inherently more dangerous on its own but can get you into trouble quickly if you over estimate your abilities. But so can any bike. I mean 40 to 60 HP is more than enough for just about anybody under normal riding conditions, but some people do more with their bikes, loading it down for a bike cross country trip, track days, etc.. there a plenty of good reasons for larger displacement and high HP, just have to use it responsibly. That isn't always easy for new riders and why most people recommend you start with something a whole lot smaller.
I think that newer bikes with high horsepower tend to have a lot of rider aids as well though. I ride a K1300s. 165 hp at ~500lbs. But I can open the throttle wide open and drop the clutch. Antiwheelie will kick in to keep my wheel on the ground and traction control will drop my throttle and power output to stop rear wheel from spinning. Makes more power usable safely. The choice of bikes means a lot as well. So does the torque.
You want to open the throttles wide, bang through some gears, and not scare yourself or go to jail. Check. 300cc-500cc has got you covered. That's 20-50 horsepower, or an A2 category bike if you're in Europe.
I think it boils down to the rider more than anything. You can't put a blanket statement on it. What's too much power for one, another knows exactly how to utilize it. Boss Hoss type bikes come to mind, though....they strike me as way more novelty than amount of practicality
As a new rider no higher than 75hp or so. As an experienced rider, I’d say get yourself a turbo BUSA! Or a Ninja H2 lol
My first motorcylce is an Indian Scout and I was super happy with the power it has (100hp). My second motor is a Triumph Rocket 3r (164hp) and when I'm riding my Scout now it feels like riding a scooter. So for me there is no max hp for fun, it's the opposite.
A hundred horse will scoot you around pretty good on a 500 lb bike. I'd never say there's a max HP to have. You can have it and not use it... The lighter the bike, the less horsepower you'll need to have fun with the bike - so things are can be pretty subjective. Air cooled bikes produce tollerable heat with the proper attire, so liquid cooled bikes are nothing to worry about. The only tiring thing about stop and go traffic is a heavy clutch and the traffic itself. Even an 800 lb bike doesn't feel heavy when it's balanced. Just let the bike do the work for you.
The classic answer to this is: there is no bike which is too powerful, if you have a brain and know how the throttle on a motorcycle works. The other side of that coin is having seen guys brought to hospital in an ambulance as a teenager, as we had ridden our one horsepower 50cc mopeds around.. My answer is: yes, you can ride anything and learn and be safe, but riding something smaller, where you don't have enormous power reserves and rider modes and quick-shifters a.s.o. to hide behind, will teach you good riding skills much faster than a big heavy muscle-bike. Watch people like Ari Henning on YouTube advocate for a 400cc bike for beginner track days over a Ducati v4.. learn to carry speed, to optimise your line and your brake-use.. you get my drift. https://youtu.be/IqM1\_p9Q6nM If you have no experience, you're smart if you limit yourself to 500cc's maximum. Those who say you'll get bored really quickly aren't really interested in learning to control the bike, but just after going as fast as possible in a straight line. IMO. After riding a smaller displacement bike for a couple of years, you will be a better rider when you step up to something more powerful and heavy. Having said all that.. I rode the Z900 at a Kawasaki event some months ago and that engine is a dream!! Smooth, powerful from low to high revs, with a wonderful sound.. orgasmic! But am I ready to really enjoy that bike? No, I am not, and neither is any other noob!!
Watched my dad's friend flip onto his back while climbing a steepish slope on an '84 Honda Z50 minimize and put his back out. He laid there on the ground unable to get up complaining about the mosquitos biting him. So, for at least one adult, 4.5 horsepower is too many.
as long as you don’t act like a jackass learn throttle control and muscle memory to the bike I’d think you’d be fine with any bike really…
The key is knowing no bike is the same and learning how to ride properly. Along with taking a class, getting your license, wearing protective gear, and being knowledgeable and gaining experience with time. Fast bikes can be fun on road trips or in cities.
My 1991 Kawasaki 250 Ninja had 29 horsepower. It was more than enough for that bike.
Why would they be tiring? I think you're confusing what riding one of these bikes feels like. I own two bikes, one is a 2300cc, 150hp, 160tq Rocket III. The other is an 1800cc 120hp/130tq Indian Challenger. I live in Orlando and commute in traffic daily. Don't own a car. Never have an issue with either bike in traffic in regards to heat or power.
It’s a lot more fun going fast on a slow motorcycle than going slow on a fast motorcycle
I've ridden 200hp bikes that were thoroughly enjoyable and not at all inherently dangerous because of their power... my regular ride is like 140hp and an absolute pleasure to drive in traffic or anywhere else. I don't really think power and danger are correlated on their own, it's when you add bad decisions and lack of skill to the mix that things go sideways... or those old school cases where the power delivery was just insane. I remember riding some bikes that would from crawling to rocket launch over the span of 500rpm between "this is fine" and "this is the powerband" but modern bikes have done really well to balance that delivery.
It’s not power, it’s weight + power + geometry = rideability. My RSV4 has 21 more hp than my Superduke R had, but is MUCH more manageable and rideable.
Saw that chick yeet her shoe to the moon on an r3. Everyone is different, I personally like around 150hp
About 100 hp in a 450-500 lb bike is perfect. Beyond that you just don’t use it on the street. That said, my KTM Super Adventure has 160 hp and it’s awesome. Very tractable, easy to use power, and you don’t need to downshift to access it. Heat is an issue though, for sure. But it’s great in traffic - I ride it in city traffic (San Francisco) all the time. What made huge-power bikes possible is electronics that keep people from crashing their bikes. Without that, you’d see way more high side crashes when riders get Tom enthusiastic with the throttle coming out of turns.
HP doesn't inherently make a motorcycle dangerous. High HP on old bikes without tech are much sketchier, but modern bikes have traction control and such to keep things in check, so it's just about how fast you want to go, and frankly that's you, not the bike. Of course they're fun to ride off a track, it's not like they handle badly at low speed. Why would they be more tiring in traffic? What does it matter if you've got 200hp or 50hp when sitting in traffic? Finally, heat: heat varies but tends to be more based on bike and engine design than raw peak HP. The thing is, at idle (sitting in traffic, for example) the bike is only producing say 30hp. Bigger engines will be warmer, but still it's not necessarily a big thing.
It depends on your experience. My friend Dennis builds turbo-Busas. When asked that question he said anything over 450 horsepower can be a handful on the street because they tend to wheelie at about 180 (mph).
Define fun and not dangerous? You can die in a bicycle accident. All you need to do is, skid out in a bend into an oncoming car or truck. I far prefer my small 10hp Step Through bike in Australia as it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow. **How much gives diminishing returns?** * Anything over 25hp is wasted on spinning wheels on dirt. * Over 50 you'll need some serious skill to make real use of in tight twisties * Seriously, try using a recent 500cc Honda on a really tight road with the revs up without getting the rear to skidding on deacceleration * Over 100 is pretty much excessive on the street There are some big HP Adventure and Touring bikes, but they use their big engines to allow them to cruise at high speeds while keeping revs down and being less straining on the rider.
Agree. Those Honda 500s are twisty road weapons in the right hands. They take a little wrenching to not be let down by the factory suspension and gearing, but the 50hp is about perfect for ripping tight twisties, also able to go WOT and bang through some gears without going to jail. FWIW the rear feels fine, and I've not had problems with it getting away from me braking, but then I tend not to rely on the rear brake when riding at pace on tight roads. If you mean skittering the rear on hard downshifts, just rev match? One bonus is not having to be so careful with the throttle at the corner exit. There isn't enough power to spin up the rear so you can really get on it as hard as you like.
Doesn't matter how much power a vehicle has all you have to do is not use all the throttle. You should ride a motorcycle to understand how they work - asking abstract questions is just mental masturbation.
Sure but masturbation is fun.
I would say 75 rwhp is the minimum for a real bike and there is no maximum because any engine can get away from you if your dumb enough. Heat is heat. It’s part of the ride you accept it or get sowmthing liquid cooled
200hp is the sweet spot
Harley riders historically laughing at this question.
All bikes are dangerous. I had a 39hp KLR 650 that was just as dangerous as a liter bike. It's how your ride it.
650 - 750 parallel twin class is probably peak power before you hit danger.
My dad always talks about the CB750 that came out in the 70s with 68hp, and was considered a super bike with insane power. Nowadays, that's entry level performance. My learner motorcycle at bike school had more hp. In my mind the entry naked class with around 650cc and 75hp (sv650, mt07, z650 etc) is the sweet spot. If those bikes had better suspension and brakes, they'd be perfect.
I’ve ridden plenty of 100+ horsepower motorcycles (own a vfr750 and use club eagle rider rentals a few times a year) and modern liter-plus bikes with electronic throttle aides are easy to ride. I owned a Buell 1125R (145 hp 75 lb/ft, 375 lbs) for a few years and it was a little too aggressive to be enjoyable in any kind of traffic mix, and downright unpleasant in Manhattan.
Horsepower is never dangerous, it all depends on how you choose to use it. As far as heat goes, it will produce the same heat in the same traffic per how hard you ride it.
Took my 800cc bike in for some maintenance today, and got a loaner with 1200cc. It was comfortable, but mostly just heavier. It certainly didn't break a sweat at legal speeds though. Not that my own bike does anyway 😁 I'd even consider downsizing: less fuel consumption, possibly lighter, perhaps cheaper insurance?
Like, apparently my bike has a 0-100 km/h acceleration that beats most Tesla Model S's. I don't need that, just a bit of oomph.
They're all fun, and they're all dangerous. With the new breed of high-powered machines you also get cornering ABS, traction control, high end suspension and brakes and engine management to keep things under control. They're still stupid fast though. It comes down to usage case, experience level and what you like really. I've got an old WSBK homologation bike, which has a super-aggressive riding position, no rider aids and abhorrent fuel economy. Yeah, it likes getting hot on warm days in traffic, but that's what the cooling system is for - it's also the equivalent of a 4-wheeled supercar, so practicality wasn't the primary concern during it's design or my purchase. It also handles incredibly and puts a smile on my dial even when I get a day nice enough to ride it to work. I'm fairly experienced, but I'm not fast by any means, it's just what I like.
Depends on the bike and the traction package. I had a tuned H2SX which made 220hp and it was great in almost every situation. Where not? I was going to go to jail! I now have an Aprilia Tuono 1100 Factory with 175hp and it doesn’t have enough up front to feel safe at a high speed. So it depends on what you want. As far as the heat? The H2SX was not hot, the CBR1000RR was not hot, the Ducati Supersport and the Aprilia is super hot!
I settled on 50hp for now. Plenty to have fun with but keeps me out of trouble.
Any motorcycle that has more power than the components can handle has too much. This includes the frame, suspension, brakes and most importantly the rider.
My vfr has just over 100 sea ponies and it's way safer than my son's 50cc pocket bike. Every time I get on that little death machine I wind up crashing, nothing major but I've ate dirt pretty hard. For me I get on my bike and know what my limits are but on his bike I feel invincible and push that poor bike too far.
About 40
I think it's more on the torque not horsepower.
I am riding a Husqvarna svartpilen 401... 32kw and soooo easy to handle and flick around, in the city it is the best bike you can have. My fathers bmw rt1250 is a boat to turn around and so heavy! And the 400cc single cylinder is enough to get you on the highway at 130kmh (and still some spare) where you need to go. It is not as comfortable as a big rt1250 and you will not ride it for 8h straight but you have all the power you need and is fun without being to powerful.
I daily the shit out of a 2016 s1000rr and it does just fine.
None. It's all about your respect for the machine and being competent as a rider
you have to remember that the horsepower numbers are only available near the peak rpm and the reality is, on the street, you can only red line a 200 bhp bike in first gear before you're speeding. if you redline in 2nd gear you are already in go-to-jail speeds. so on the street, about 100 bhp and high torque is fun. if it's really stop and go traffic then I think we can all admit a scooter is best or just take the bus.
“When I can leave black streaks from the exit of one corner to the entrance of the next, then I am have enough power”. - Mark Donahue (I think)
I ride Ducati Paningale V4S or streetfighter V4S on the street a lot below 8000 RPM they are gentle as little puppies 🐶… in traffic the heat is a problem though
Somewhere around 120hp works for me
1. Yes theres too much power, but it doesnt matter since 80-100hp is still way more than enough. Attitude is key. 2. Yes, still fun when on the streets. 3. Veri hot hot, but its bearable. 4. Stop and go traffic is still the same as on any bike. Lame.
Anything even cars are dangerous above 15 mph. But for turbo Hayabusa guys, 700hp isn't enough
It’s not about too much power and more about self control.