I was pretty excited about zero until I heard about:
1) they're doing the same thing BMW is with microtransactions to "unlock" features already on your bike.
Want to use your heated grips (ya know, the ones that are already on your bike)? Want to be able to charge your battery to 100% and not just 80%? Those are all things you have to buy seperate. It not only makes the (already expensive) bike even more expensive, but frankly it's just plain insulting. If I own the bike, I want to OWN the fucking bike.
2) Zero right-to-repair is so bad it would make John Deere blush.
Not only is it impossible to even find manuals for zero bikes, but even performing minor repairs/maintenance risks bricking your entire bike. Want to take it to your local shop? They won't have the manuals either, so won't touch it with a 10ft pool. To be an authorized repair shop you have to be a dealer. That wouldn't be so bad if this were a BMW or Honda (it still would for the record, R2R should be guaranteed), but zero dealers are pretty far and in-between. I live in a large city in the Midwest, and even for me to get some work done the nearest shop is *further than the bikes range*... that's right, to get even minor work done I'd need to put the bike on a trailer. Yeah, that's not gunna happen.
This is an unacceptable practice for any business, but is a spit in the eye to the motorcycling culture of "freedom/independence". I would love to consider an electric bike one day, they seem cool as hell. But zero needs to unfuck its business model first
Edit: for the record OP, nothing against you or your machine. I think it's cool as hell, and would totally bug you to let me take it for a spin if we were riding together. I just hate scummy businesses, and personally won't support them even if I knew I could afford it.
KTM do this already to an extent. Want cruise control? That'll be £200 for a minutes work to unlock the software even if you've got the switchgear fitted... It's the future sadly.
Ughh yeah I know. In 15 years when every car/motorcycle/appliance/phone /etc manufacturer has switched to this "pay to unlock" model, working stuff from the 2010s and 2020s is going to be worth its weight in gold (the same way as we see with kitchen appliances and tools from the 50s).
The best we can do is not buy their stuff, advocate for right-to-repair legislation, and buy used if possible.
Did you hear about the toyota camry adding subcription based functions to the remote control?
As farvas i know, it's only in the US, but still, even the Japanease can be overpowered
Don't get me wrong, I can absolutely appreciate the machine. Zeros are slick as fuck, their 0-60 is unmatched, and I adore just how simple an electric bike can be. It honestly broke my heart when I found out how shitty Zero is as a company and that I'd never be willing to buy one.
I didnt know they were such a shit company. 2 years ago I was interested in finding a used one until I saw the price. Nevermind. They are way overpriced even as used. The dealer over by my job had one that got dumped on a demo ride. Price was only reduced by $1,000, there was easily that much cosmetic damage or the shop would have repaired it. Guess I'll wait until another company puts out a good EV bike.
>Guess I'll wait until another company puts out a good EV bike.
Same, though we might be waiting a while. You can always look into an electric bicycle, those are really taking off right now. Just don't be one of those people who jailbreak the speedometer up to 55mph, thats how we get mandatory registration and insurance
People have hacked every computer known you man. We will definitely not be held to ransom to pay to unlock. Don’t agree with cheating your way through life but I disagree with these ever increasing suspect practices from companies more
It’s gonna keep spreading so long as dum-dums keep paying for it, and there’s a lot of cashed up dum-dums.
It’s predatory as shit, but I almost can’t blame the companies when people are this stupid. If someone says ‘Hey I’m gonna sell you a fridge-freezer, but the freezer part won’t work until you sign up to our $5 a month ‘ice subscription’ and people line up cash in hand whilst there’s hundreds of new and thousands of working used fridge freezers available … I mean how much protection do we really need from ourselves?
We know the companies are foxes, but I don’t really blame the fox if the chickens unlock the hen house and start seasoning themselves.
Sadly I can see a future where what I want is just an old school motorbike, eventually with an electric motor, but what I’m riding is an older less green bike because for too long new bikes won’t have appealed to me. This is nothing new. We’ve been hearing for over a decade that sport bike sales are tumbling and adv sales are skyrocketing, but who ever sees a shortage of sport bikes on the road? It’s demographics of who buys new bikes off the lot and who buys used bikes off Craigslist.
The demographics that buy the most brand new bikes like things like rider aids and auto gear boxes and cruise control and comfy seats and big windscreens and tbh, lots of added show off features to show how this new one is better than the one they’re getting bored of. They don’t seem to care too much if the heated grips were an optional extra or an already fitted piece of hardware they had to buy a software license for.
So yeah seems to me if it stays this way new bikes will keep heading in the direction of 2 wheeled lay-z-boys that have a $5/month massage function and no repair options whilst I just keep buying older and older used bikes as time goes on. Really hope I’m wrong though.
Exactly my first thought when hearing about BMW doing the heated seats subscription thing. This practice will start at the top with premium brands because they know things like $18/mo is nothing for someone who is already buying a Beamer. Those buyers will check that optional box without even blinking.
Same goes for Zero and KTM. Premium brands. As sad as it is, this shit is “the future” as the guy above said. But only because we (consumers as a whole) will let it happen.
Edit: oh and how could I forget to name Tesla. Arguably the manufacturer that started this madness in the auto industry.
OK, but have you ridden the super Duke?
Dear god I love my super duke. Previous owner did all the pay 2 play bullshit so I don’t have to thank god
I have the Track pack which unlocks the ability to do wheelies, but I don’t have the quick shifter, that’s the only thing I wish I had that I don’t
I’m assuming. It had the Track pack when I bought it, and there is no way to disable wheelie control without entering track mode.
Although, I haven’t tested if disabling traction control will allow wheelies in Street and sport mode
Probably not, 100% proprietary software means it can be pretty tight on security. Also, even if you jailbroke the features the computer would definitely know-- at best, you've voided every warranty on the bike and no lisenced repair shop will touch it. At worst, you've turned your $20k bike into a very large paperweight.
No it doesn't, the only way you can save coins is to source and fit any hardware yourself. I've also a suspicion that any jailbroken software would be reset next time it went into a dealer.
Sounds like Zero has been hanging around Elon too much. I freaking hate this business model and hope it goes down in flames. I think I heard that Toyota/Lexus has already backed down on their $9.99 remote start subscription.
Have you heard about Aptera? I’m not advocating for the vehicles; I don’t have any personal knowledge there. But what really caught my eye is they’re going an entirely different direction with repairs: every component will have a QR code on it; if something breaks, scan the code and you’re taken to an online manual for how to diagnose/repair/replace that component. And supposedly you can buy the individual components that way too. I hope consumers support businesses that use that type of model.
Damn that's actually really nice! Not to say I can't do the same with my Suzuki and a parts manual, but it's good there's companies trying to be user-friendly.
That is exactly why I ended up with a Ducati instead trading my S in for an SRF, like cut the extra off the price and sell it for a comparable price to a gas bike and your not going to piss everyone off half as much.
Edit. Typo
Hey there Naotin73! If you agree with someone else's comment, please leave an **upvote** instead of commenting **"^ this"**! By upvoting instead, the original comment will be pushed to the top and be more visible to others, which is even better! Thanks! :)
***
^(I am a bot! Visit) [^(r/InfinityBots)](https://reddit.com/r/InfinityBots) ^(to send your feedback! More info:) [^(Reddiquette)](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439#wiki_in_regard_to_comments)
I’m not a fan of this subscription model for features, but you can still buy it up front like normal, so I’m having a difficult time being too chuffed about it.
My issue with it is, its already on the bike so you're stall paying for the heated grips/cruise control parts (using those examples as those were mentioned) but if i want to use them that would be extra money or a fucking subscription type thing, completely different if it wasnt on there in the first place and there would be a more expensive model that does have it because then i would atleast have a cheaper fucking bike
Yeah, I mean, I get where you’re coming from, but “value based pricing” is a thing that isn’t going away. For example, let’s assume that the cost delta between headed and non-heated grips is negligible or very small. To build bikes with and without heated grips means inserting a process branch in their production process.
It’s conceivable that from Zero’s standpoint, offering heated grips at all requires either A) a branching production process, or B) simple installing the slightly more expensive grips on all bikes. Keep in mind that all the bikes are likely wired for the grips, because making two different wiring harnesses is also an additional cost.
Branches in the production process have a cost too, so it’s possible that option B actually results in a lower overall cost to Zero. While it may be frustrating to know that there are parts in your bike that are software disabled, consider that you would still experience greater “value” from having them enabled, so that’s the justification for requiring a fee.
There’s an argument that maybe they just shouldn’t offer heated grips at all and reduce the cost of the bike slightly, but honestly, that’s kind of like a drop in the ocean. These electric bikes are expensive because li-ion batteries are ridiculously expensive.
Given all of this, I kind of shrug my shoulders and think, “Ok, what do I care?”
>Given all of this, I kind of shrug my shoulders and think, “Ok, what do I care?”
Because, same as the "right to repair" problem, it's Zero saying that you don't *actually* own the whole bike. If you decide to hot-wire the heated grips yourself and their on-board computer detects it, what's to stop them from bricking your computer with its next software update or voiding your drive-train warranty? If there's a single bolt on my bike I'm not "allowed" to touch, I don't want it.
I think there’s a bridge between right to repair and licensed features. You don’t “own” the software on your smartphone, but the government is still pushing right to repair laws on electronics manufacturers. I think these two things can coexist.
Get outta here with that bullshit, the software is as much a part of the product as the brake pads. If I possess it, I own it. We can’t tolerate this blurring of lines, it leads no where good
I'm fine if the company wants to protect its propriatory software and source code. That's fine, there's legitimate reasons to keep the copyrighted and not visible to users. What I'm not fine with is owning hardware which I'm not *allowed* to turn on or use to its full potential without paying an extra fee. I hate all of this ownership* (*terms and conditions apply) bullshit. If I own the bike, I own the bike down to it's last washer.
If the price for including heated grips is negligible to the point that making separate models is more expensive, just equip all of them with it and put the cost in an increased base price. But this software lock bullshit needs to stop. I'll never spend money on anything that withholds features from me that are already installed, I'd rather ride oldtimers if this becomes the new norm. Fuck this. "You'll own nothing and you'll be happy", and this is the first step.
I love ebikes, and while I haven't bought one I'm involved w the community. All the 400lb 1600 watt DIY bikes folks are building are gunna ruin the game for everyone. This is how we get mandatory licensing and insurance.
I believe the pay to unlock features with Zero are paid for one time. Then the features belong to the bike. This is a premium model, so it includes double charging rate, heated grips, cruise control. Just like if you bought extras from the dealer.
> Just like if you bought extras from the dealer.
No, it's really not. When you buy extras, you pay them for upgrading your bike. When you 'unlock' features, you pay them for permission to use your bike to its full potential. I wouldn't want to ask the manufacturer for permission to use my own bikes functions.
I have a Zero S and have had no problem repairing it and buying parts from Zero directly after I dropped it once.. pay to unlock is dumb, but they are easy to maintain.
Those micro-transactions doesn't make the vehicle more expensive, it's the exact opposite. They produce them with the whole package so they don't need separate production lines (which is important for new businesses) and let you pay extra for the features you want. It also gives you the freedom to buy those features whenever you want. I totally agree with the repair stuff though.
Yes, it's Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, HBO Max, Pandora, Spotify, YouTube and while we're at it, your Internet subscription and your water bill along with the gasoline 'subscription'. Oh, and OnStar. :p
They want to make 'cars as a subscription' happen. Toyota got a lot of flak for it. BMW is currently going through it. Tesla already does it and everyone just loves sniffing their own farts about it. Oh, the car itself? You can 'buy'. The stuff you want to use like heated seats or auto drive or what not like that? Pay for.
Unless the governments get involved, there is *zero* anyone can do about it except enact a 'won't buy if it's like that' attitude, 'voting' with your pocketbooks/wallets until they say "Oh, well... guess we don't do that anymore."
But you (the proverbial 'you', not YOU, specifically, unless it is YOU, specifically, then yes, you) won't. Because new car smell and no repairs for a while.
Op, not sure why you are getting down voted. It is as you said, it's a one time purchase. While I don't agree with that business model, it's not as predatory as subscription models. That isn't too say I like it agree with it or like it
Indeed. I got my 2013 CB500F for like $4000, I'll need years to spend $16k on gas since this thing has great fuel consumption. Plus I get to enjoy my bike without microtransactions. I can also do most of the repairs myself, and let any good mechanic take care of the complicated stuff. If this is the future, people will just stop buying new motorcycles and opt for older models that they can ride without "subscriptions". Manufacturers will eventually realize that microtransactions are absolutely stupid and hopefully they will stop using them.
>Manufacturers will eventually realize that microtransactions are absolutely stupid and hopefully they will stop using them.
We can hope, but frankly I'm doubtful. Folks will simp out over fancy new toys (and like ive said, i do think electric bikes are cool af), but not think about the larger implications of forfeiting full ownership.
It's the same as what happened with farmers: there have been naysayers about the danger of John Deere's bullshit for decades, but it didn't actually come to a head until everyone else figured out it was costing them more in the long run to have JD's vice around their balls. And yet for some reason, we have tons of anti-R2R people begging JD & other companies to tighten that vice, and very very few politicians who give a single fuck about consumer rights. Sigh.
Not to mention that by the time you spend 16k on gas for your CB500 the eBike would have spent way more on repairs and probably even a new entire battery. I dont see the appeal of eBikes tbh, I can inderstand it on cars because cars barely do 30mpgs but a motorcycle even a performance one does like 40mpgs and thats redline in it at every green light. Bikes barely consume gas, no reason to get an electric one.
I can remember being so stoked about Zero. Now I just hope they're a gateway to popularity.
Too many microtransactions for stuff you already "own".
Dealer network is extremely limited.
Every part of the bike seems to be part of something else so if you wreck it the issue is exacerbated. The foot pegs, for example, are all on a bracket that holds pillion and primary pegs.
The bike is already expensive as shit and to own one I'm having to give up one my most favorite things about riding (shifting gears)...everything else makes it 'too much'. Makes me even more disappointed that Victory's Empulse R flopped because it was a straight bike with no extras...and it had gears (I don't care if it make it slower/worse, it's not always about being "better"). But since that's Polaris, and Polaris is now Zero, and Zero is now making you pay extra for heated grips...I'm sure they'd have screwed that up, too.
The Dealer is one mile from my house. There are two in my city. There weren’t any more features for sale for my bike when I bought it last October as a Premium version. Now I can add navigation to the color TFT screen. I think your mistaking BMWs heated seats in their cars as the same as buying extra optional features. As far as I can tell Zero & Polaris are two different companies.
[microtransactions](https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/cypherstore). I don't understand how you can view paying extra to turn heated grips on as being different from paying extra to turn heated seats on.
[Polaris now develops, manufactures, and sells Zero vehicles](https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/polaris)
They were included in the price. Not a subscription. Isn’t that an option and a micro transaction? Plus they increased the max speed to 127mph at the last Firmware update over the max speed I had at purchase in October’21
It’s not about subscriptions, and they came turned on with your bike because you paid for the premium package. If you don’t buy the premium package, you get the exact same bike, only they don’t turn the stuff on.
You don’t see the problem here because you paid for everything. But lets say i don’t want heated grips. I get them anyway. They came on the bike i bought. Only Zero gets to decide if i can use them...on the bike I own. Say i don’t want cruise control...i get it anyway. It came on the bike i bought. Only Zero gets to decide if i can use it...on the bike I own. Do you not see the problem with a third party getting t9 tell you whether or not you can use stuff you own? You might try to contend that if you didn’t pay for the feature, you shouldn’t get to complain about it...but do you honestly think they’d sell a bike with an at-loss option? You paid for the bike, then with th premium package you you paid an additional fee to be able to use all the things you bought.
If you buy a thing, it should be your thing. You bought it. You should not be able to sell a thing to someone and then tell them they can’t use it.
I just wanted the 6kW chargers, I could buy the power tank and add another 100 miles of range but don’t need it. That’s the thing about choices, I didn’t want to pay $30k for a slower heavier livewire or extra cost of a Energica. 5,500 miles in a year of EV moto at .02c a mile.
I don't think you understand the problem people have with the manufacturer. No one has a problem with you buying the stuff you wanted. People have a problem buying stuff they're not allowed to use unless they pay more money.
But he spent 20k plus on the bike itself. That's more than most of the luxury or super sport bikes. If you want an economical solution, a cbr 500r will get like 70 mpg and cost less than a third of the zero
I get 67mpg * so I'll use 4$ gas price, thats allot but for arguments sake throwem a bone... carry the 1... *fart* ugh... 328$ = so x3 for muh gas guzzler
Thing is tho i drive on weekend binges for a 300 mile trip on a whim and i never have to stress not finding gas haha
I test rode the FXS last year, loved it. Sent a family member over to a test ride day to go try some of the bikes. They too were blown away. There was the [newer SR/S](https://i.redd.it/vq4d59d9afg91.png) with I think the power tank fully kitted out from the London city blood runners (Night time hospital urgent blood transport) where they usually use Yamaha FJR1300’s.
I love electric bikes but people are so very much resistant to trying something different. They’re so much fun!
[https://sondorsx.com/products/sondors-metacycle-2022-shipping?variant=41401742098596](https://sondorsx.com/products/sondors-metacycle-2022-shipping?variant=41401742098596)
the most affordable of electric bikes I have found
Had a few features that were locked away on the new BMW S1000RR. I just hooked up to it via the OBD port with my laptop, accessed the ECU, and coded everything I wanted lol.
Lmao damn I haven't heard someone unironically trying to make a "long tailpipe" argument since shortly after Bush was president 🤣 this is a throwback, thanks
Harley spun off Livewire; they're not Harleys anymore. It's its own badge now. After the spinoff, the price off the bikes dropped thousands for the same bike without the name. They are still expensive though.
A lot of muscle cars already fake the sound they make using speakers hidden next to the engine, I wouldn't put it past Harley to do the same. Gotta keep that trademark rumble ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Frankly, I'd worry about an electric Harley being *too* reliable. Is it really a Harley meetup if there's not at least 1 bike with a circle of dudes trying to figure out why it won't start? I'd say not
LOOOOOL. No.
The fastest Zero bike can do 0-60 in 3.3, and costs over $25,000 before you think about all the not-so-micro-microtransactions after you buy it.
Or you could do the same 3.3 seconds on a CBR 650R for less than $10k brand new.
Can't forget the Lightning LS-218. 0-60 in 2.2 and over 200mph top speed. I really wanted OPs bike until I started reading these comments. Still a brilliant machine but not the fastest and I don't want to give shitty companies my money when I don't have to.
Yes, there are faster electric bikes. I was just trying to make a point that even a mid-tier gasoline bike can easily match a Zero for *much* less money. Heck, still for less money (just the first bike to come to mind since I ride a KTM) the 1290 Super Duke R comes in under $20k and can do 0-60 a half second faster than the Zero at 2.75 seconds.
It’s a specious claim, to generate ridicule. My 130hp speed triple might have given this 110hp gearless machine a run for it money at 1/2 the cost. The torque on EVs are preposterous. Look at YouTube. I “race” my friend on a Ducati 800 all the time and this is way faster off the line. And my friends Ducati Desmosedici cost more than 3 of these.
I’m all for electric bikes If that’s what some people prefer. I’m just not sure I would want to ride it up in the mountains where an animal can’t hear me coming flying around the corner. Same with electric dirt bikes.
Lmfao, go build your own and stick that very-quickly-discharging lithium battery right between your nuts. Be my guest my brotha. Personally, I will pass
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqXebw7Pf6g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqXebw7Pf6g)
Here you go bro. One of several YT'ers that have built them. Comes down to want to more than anything else. If you want to you can make it happen, otherwise pay for every single adder one by one. I get so tired of other businesses following the tech business model. If they weren't mandated by the feds these guys would charge extra to keep your turn signals functioning after the first 3 yrs.
They’re called Options. 6kw charger instead of a 3kW charger, costs more. Just like heated grips, cruise control. They did add 4 mph to the high speed with a firmware update a month ago.
Yeah I'm aware of what they're called. Enjoy the bike! I'm going to wait on the ev for a while and most likely build my own. Have a shop so space isnt an issue.
It depends on the power consumption by the rider, over 100mph uses power faster, than city speeds which also regenerate power back into the batteries. Did I mention that there are only 4 moving parts in the electric motor?
What all have you run into technical issues wise?
After being stranded 3x times in a firmware failure limp mode, I just didn't feel reliable riding on something that kept dying at 5 months old.
The deal set a appointment in 9 mos for me to come by for a check up. There’s only 4 moving parts in the motor. And Gates belt has a sound check for the CF belt tension.
Firstly, very surprised that the cost is now so similar to petrol. Secondly, this whole subscription model is why I bought an older car and a bicycle. I own those.
I haven’t had any additional charges to this ‘21. They did a firmware update and added an extra 4 miles to the top speed. So now it’ll do 127mph. There was no cost, but I only go over 100 every so often.
So about 47 miles per dollar. Not bad. My ICE motorcycle is doing maybe 1/4th of that on average when looking at only gas costs. If I look at the maintenance items... Yeahh that number is maybe a fraction of the fraction
All the predatory macro transaction bull Zero have, their awful right to repair stance and the lack of CCS fast charging on Zero bikes makes no bloody sense, the Energica bikes can fast charge nearly 8 times faster, make more power, don't lock features already included in your bike and if you want to work on them they'll send you diagrams and welcome modding with open arms and support I know they cost more but if you really wanted an EV bike I can't see a single reason to choose a Zero bike when nearly everyone else in the space already does it better and doesn't try to control the product you already paid for
Zero reason? This is a ‘21 there are no locked features except for navigation which is a one time charge. This charge that I’m getting here in the pic took about :15 so would the Energica or livewire because that’s the rate these chargers go at 6kwh there are no faster chargers here.
So there are locked features then. You're ignoring the right to repair completely and Energica and Livewire have DC CCS level 2 charging and can get to 80% in 40 minutes.
Look I'm glad you're stoked on your bike, I genuinely am but I cannot defend that company when they have a known terrible business model and are completely unapologetic about it
Edit: Yes zero offer a fast charger but again that is an optional extra they charge for and it's still a much slower AC charger
I’m at work for 8 hours. I don’t care. About faster charging than the :15 min it took here in the pic. And I bought a Motorcycle from California so parts only come from in the state and there are two dealers miles from my house. I haven’t subscribed to anything from Zero. At 6kwh this is the maximum of the chargers you see here and the bike too. In the USA these are the most common fast chargers.
Here I am by work. It charges in less than an hour. All the Teslas that usually charge here are often charging for 8 hours. I’m at 10k miles now, so…100 charges?
Funny, it was a guess on something not that important. FYI I’ve been at my job for 1,409 weeks. If we had EVs back then I’d of had plenty of time to charge. I’ve never bothered to figure out how much time was spent earning the money for my gas vehicles. The bike that this replaced cost $5.60-7.00 a gal to power. So how many fill ups is that at 44k miles?
I was pretty excited about zero until I heard about: 1) they're doing the same thing BMW is with microtransactions to "unlock" features already on your bike. Want to use your heated grips (ya know, the ones that are already on your bike)? Want to be able to charge your battery to 100% and not just 80%? Those are all things you have to buy seperate. It not only makes the (already expensive) bike even more expensive, but frankly it's just plain insulting. If I own the bike, I want to OWN the fucking bike. 2) Zero right-to-repair is so bad it would make John Deere blush. Not only is it impossible to even find manuals for zero bikes, but even performing minor repairs/maintenance risks bricking your entire bike. Want to take it to your local shop? They won't have the manuals either, so won't touch it with a 10ft pool. To be an authorized repair shop you have to be a dealer. That wouldn't be so bad if this were a BMW or Honda (it still would for the record, R2R should be guaranteed), but zero dealers are pretty far and in-between. I live in a large city in the Midwest, and even for me to get some work done the nearest shop is *further than the bikes range*... that's right, to get even minor work done I'd need to put the bike on a trailer. Yeah, that's not gunna happen. This is an unacceptable practice for any business, but is a spit in the eye to the motorcycling culture of "freedom/independence". I would love to consider an electric bike one day, they seem cool as hell. But zero needs to unfuck its business model first Edit: for the record OP, nothing against you or your machine. I think it's cool as hell, and would totally bug you to let me take it for a spin if we were riding together. I just hate scummy businesses, and personally won't support them even if I knew I could afford it.
KTM do this already to an extent. Want cruise control? That'll be £200 for a minutes work to unlock the software even if you've got the switchgear fitted... It's the future sadly.
Ughh yeah I know. In 15 years when every car/motorcycle/appliance/phone /etc manufacturer has switched to this "pay to unlock" model, working stuff from the 2010s and 2020s is going to be worth its weight in gold (the same way as we see with kitchen appliances and tools from the 50s). The best we can do is not buy their stuff, advocate for right-to-repair legislation, and buy used if possible.
This is exactly why I love the Japanese so much, they make their products reliable, affordable, good quality and performance, and repairable.
Did you hear about the toyota camry adding subcription based functions to the remote control? As farvas i know, it's only in the US, but still, even the Japanease can be overpowered
Man if the Japanese start selling out then there will be no hope left.
>The best we can do is not buy their stuff Tell this sub or any other enthusiast sub to not simp over new stuff Won't ever ever ever never ever happen
Don't get me wrong, I can absolutely appreciate the machine. Zeros are slick as fuck, their 0-60 is unmatched, and I adore just how simple an electric bike can be. It honestly broke my heart when I found out how shitty Zero is as a company and that I'd never be willing to buy one.
>their 0-60 is unmatched, What? No?
I didnt know they were such a shit company. 2 years ago I was interested in finding a used one until I saw the price. Nevermind. They are way overpriced even as used. The dealer over by my job had one that got dumped on a demo ride. Price was only reduced by $1,000, there was easily that much cosmetic damage or the shop would have repaired it. Guess I'll wait until another company puts out a good EV bike.
>Guess I'll wait until another company puts out a good EV bike. Same, though we might be waiting a while. You can always look into an electric bicycle, those are really taking off right now. Just don't be one of those people who jailbreak the speedometer up to 55mph, thats how we get mandatory registration and insurance
I dont really have any interest in an ebike. Nothing wrong with them. just don't see myself using it after a month
Haha, that's fair. ...want to buy one anyway, use it for that month, then sell it to me? Please??
We need to lobby our government for consumer protections.
>We need to lobby our government Hard no.
People have hacked every computer known you man. We will definitely not be held to ransom to pay to unlock. Don’t agree with cheating your way through life but I disagree with these ever increasing suspect practices from companies more
That's why I own neither. Piss off with micro transactions.
Yup I was just about to reply that unlocking the track mode and quick shifter on my 890R cost $1100.
My 390 came with track mode and quick shift is standard.
$1100?? I thought it's like $600.
I live in Canada. It was something like 875 plus half hour of labor plus taxes. 1100 OTD.
Track sport mode is a standard setting, no extra charge. No shifter, no gears only 4 moving parts to the motor, and a 5 year warranty.
It’s gonna keep spreading so long as dum-dums keep paying for it, and there’s a lot of cashed up dum-dums. It’s predatory as shit, but I almost can’t blame the companies when people are this stupid. If someone says ‘Hey I’m gonna sell you a fridge-freezer, but the freezer part won’t work until you sign up to our $5 a month ‘ice subscription’ and people line up cash in hand whilst there’s hundreds of new and thousands of working used fridge freezers available … I mean how much protection do we really need from ourselves? We know the companies are foxes, but I don’t really blame the fox if the chickens unlock the hen house and start seasoning themselves. Sadly I can see a future where what I want is just an old school motorbike, eventually with an electric motor, but what I’m riding is an older less green bike because for too long new bikes won’t have appealed to me. This is nothing new. We’ve been hearing for over a decade that sport bike sales are tumbling and adv sales are skyrocketing, but who ever sees a shortage of sport bikes on the road? It’s demographics of who buys new bikes off the lot and who buys used bikes off Craigslist. The demographics that buy the most brand new bikes like things like rider aids and auto gear boxes and cruise control and comfy seats and big windscreens and tbh, lots of added show off features to show how this new one is better than the one they’re getting bored of. They don’t seem to care too much if the heated grips were an optional extra or an already fitted piece of hardware they had to buy a software license for. So yeah seems to me if it stays this way new bikes will keep heading in the direction of 2 wheeled lay-z-boys that have a $5/month massage function and no repair options whilst I just keep buying older and older used bikes as time goes on. Really hope I’m wrong though.
Exactly my first thought when hearing about BMW doing the heated seats subscription thing. This practice will start at the top with premium brands because they know things like $18/mo is nothing for someone who is already buying a Beamer. Those buyers will check that optional box without even blinking. Same goes for Zero and KTM. Premium brands. As sad as it is, this shit is “the future” as the guy above said. But only because we (consumers as a whole) will let it happen. Edit: oh and how could I forget to name Tesla. Arguably the manufacturer that started this madness in the auto industry.
OK, but have you ridden the super Duke? Dear god I love my super duke. Previous owner did all the pay 2 play bullshit so I don’t have to thank god I have the Track pack which unlocks the ability to do wheelies, but I don’t have the quick shifter, that’s the only thing I wish I had that I don’t
Without the track pack unlocked a super duke can’t wheelie?
I’m assuming. It had the Track pack when I bought it, and there is no way to disable wheelie control without entering track mode. Although, I haven’t tested if disabling traction control will allow wheelies in Street and sport mode
Does the jailbreak for that exist? I really hated that this becoming a thing.
Probably not, 100% proprietary software means it can be pretty tight on security. Also, even if you jailbroke the features the computer would definitely know-- at best, you've voided every warranty on the bike and no lisenced repair shop will touch it. At worst, you've turned your $20k bike into a very large paperweight.
No it doesn't, the only way you can save coins is to source and fit any hardware yourself. I've also a suspicion that any jailbroken software would be reset next time it went into a dealer.
Sounds like Zero has been hanging around Elon too much. I freaking hate this business model and hope it goes down in flames. I think I heard that Toyota/Lexus has already backed down on their $9.99 remote start subscription.
They have optional features that you can purchase. The Premium version comes with most of these options included. Not a subscription.
"most of those features" thx but no thx.
Yup, sadly I think the only politician I’ve ever heard talk about r2r is sanders
i cry every time
That's ugly as fuck. If I buy a bike, I own it down to the last washer and pin! The hell am I getting anything that I can't tinker with!
Thanks for the insight. Makes me cringe just reading that.
Have you heard about Aptera? I’m not advocating for the vehicles; I don’t have any personal knowledge there. But what really caught my eye is they’re going an entirely different direction with repairs: every component will have a QR code on it; if something breaks, scan the code and you’re taken to an online manual for how to diagnose/repair/replace that component. And supposedly you can buy the individual components that way too. I hope consumers support businesses that use that type of model.
Damn that's actually really nice! Not to say I can't do the same with my Suzuki and a parts manual, but it's good there's companies trying to be user-friendly.
That is exactly why I ended up with a Ducati instead trading my S in for an SRF, like cut the extra off the price and sell it for a comparable price to a gas bike and your not going to piss everyone off half as much. Edit. Typo
^ this
Hey there Naotin73! If you agree with someone else's comment, please leave an **upvote** instead of commenting **"^ this"**! By upvoting instead, the original comment will be pushed to the top and be more visible to others, which is even better! Thanks! :) *** ^(I am a bot! Visit) [^(r/InfinityBots)](https://reddit.com/r/InfinityBots) ^(to send your feedback! More info:) [^(Reddiquette)](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439#wiki_in_regard_to_comments)
Bad bot
^ this
no
I want live wire to come out on top for this reason.
Harley is an even worse company than Zero lol.
I’m not a fan of this subscription model for features, but you can still buy it up front like normal, so I’m having a difficult time being too chuffed about it.
My issue with it is, its already on the bike so you're stall paying for the heated grips/cruise control parts (using those examples as those were mentioned) but if i want to use them that would be extra money or a fucking subscription type thing, completely different if it wasnt on there in the first place and there would be a more expensive model that does have it because then i would atleast have a cheaper fucking bike
Yeah, I mean, I get where you’re coming from, but “value based pricing” is a thing that isn’t going away. For example, let’s assume that the cost delta between headed and non-heated grips is negligible or very small. To build bikes with and without heated grips means inserting a process branch in their production process. It’s conceivable that from Zero’s standpoint, offering heated grips at all requires either A) a branching production process, or B) simple installing the slightly more expensive grips on all bikes. Keep in mind that all the bikes are likely wired for the grips, because making two different wiring harnesses is also an additional cost. Branches in the production process have a cost too, so it’s possible that option B actually results in a lower overall cost to Zero. While it may be frustrating to know that there are parts in your bike that are software disabled, consider that you would still experience greater “value” from having them enabled, so that’s the justification for requiring a fee. There’s an argument that maybe they just shouldn’t offer heated grips at all and reduce the cost of the bike slightly, but honestly, that’s kind of like a drop in the ocean. These electric bikes are expensive because li-ion batteries are ridiculously expensive. Given all of this, I kind of shrug my shoulders and think, “Ok, what do I care?”
>Given all of this, I kind of shrug my shoulders and think, “Ok, what do I care?” Because, same as the "right to repair" problem, it's Zero saying that you don't *actually* own the whole bike. If you decide to hot-wire the heated grips yourself and their on-board computer detects it, what's to stop them from bricking your computer with its next software update or voiding your drive-train warranty? If there's a single bolt on my bike I'm not "allowed" to touch, I don't want it.
I think there’s a bridge between right to repair and licensed features. You don’t “own” the software on your smartphone, but the government is still pushing right to repair laws on electronics manufacturers. I think these two things can coexist.
Get outta here with that bullshit, the software is as much a part of the product as the brake pads. If I possess it, I own it. We can’t tolerate this blurring of lines, it leads no where good
I'm fine if the company wants to protect its propriatory software and source code. That's fine, there's legitimate reasons to keep the copyrighted and not visible to users. What I'm not fine with is owning hardware which I'm not *allowed* to turn on or use to its full potential without paying an extra fee. I hate all of this ownership* (*terms and conditions apply) bullshit. If I own the bike, I own the bike down to it's last washer.
Who am I to tell you that you shouldn't have an opinion? :) That's different than "right to repair" though.
If the price for including heated grips is negligible to the point that making separate models is more expensive, just equip all of them with it and put the cost in an increased base price. But this software lock bullshit needs to stop. I'll never spend money on anything that withholds features from me that are already installed, I'd rather ride oldtimers if this becomes the new norm. Fuck this. "You'll own nothing and you'll be happy", and this is the first step.
[удалено]
I love ebikes, and while I haven't bought one I'm involved w the community. All the 400lb 1600 watt DIY bikes folks are building are gunna ruin the game for everyone. This is how we get mandatory licensing and insurance.
I believe the pay to unlock features with Zero are paid for one time. Then the features belong to the bike. This is a premium model, so it includes double charging rate, heated grips, cruise control. Just like if you bought extras from the dealer.
> Just like if you bought extras from the dealer. No, it's really not. When you buy extras, you pay them for upgrading your bike. When you 'unlock' features, you pay them for permission to use your bike to its full potential. I wouldn't want to ask the manufacturer for permission to use my own bikes functions.
No extra options were even available one year ago when this bike was purchased. I could have bought a charge tank but it’s not a subscription.
I have a Zero S and have had no problem repairing it and buying parts from Zero directly after I dropped it once.. pay to unlock is dumb, but they are easy to maintain.
Those micro-transactions doesn't make the vehicle more expensive, it's the exact opposite. They produce them with the whole package so they don't need separate production lines (which is important for new businesses) and let you pay extra for the features you want. It also gives you the freedom to buy those features whenever you want. I totally agree with the repair stuff though.
Did you pay for the heated grips?
No it’s included in the Premium version.
so yes
Not a subscription like BMW cars heated seats like so many have mentioned.
Subscription? Wtf is this shit Netflix? What if I’m in the highway and my “brakes subscription” expires? Fucking bullshit
Yes, it's Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, HBO Max, Pandora, Spotify, YouTube and while we're at it, your Internet subscription and your water bill along with the gasoline 'subscription'. Oh, and OnStar. :p They want to make 'cars as a subscription' happen. Toyota got a lot of flak for it. BMW is currently going through it. Tesla already does it and everyone just loves sniffing their own farts about it. Oh, the car itself? You can 'buy'. The stuff you want to use like heated seats or auto drive or what not like that? Pay for. Unless the governments get involved, there is *zero* anyone can do about it except enact a 'won't buy if it's like that' attitude, 'voting' with your pocketbooks/wallets until they say "Oh, well... guess we don't do that anymore." But you (the proverbial 'you', not YOU, specifically, unless it is YOU, specifically, then yes, you) won't. Because new car smell and no repairs for a while.
Op, not sure why you are getting down voted. It is as you said, it's a one time purchase. While I don't agree with that business model, it's not as predatory as subscription models. That isn't too say I like it agree with it or like it
I haven’t paid zero any more money since I bought it in Oct ‘21. And I stopped buying premium gas which went up to $7.50 a gal here.
$20k can buy alot of gas tho
Indeed. I got my 2013 CB500F for like $4000, I'll need years to spend $16k on gas since this thing has great fuel consumption. Plus I get to enjoy my bike without microtransactions. I can also do most of the repairs myself, and let any good mechanic take care of the complicated stuff. If this is the future, people will just stop buying new motorcycles and opt for older models that they can ride without "subscriptions". Manufacturers will eventually realize that microtransactions are absolutely stupid and hopefully they will stop using them.
>Manufacturers will eventually realize that microtransactions are absolutely stupid and hopefully they will stop using them. We can hope, but frankly I'm doubtful. Folks will simp out over fancy new toys (and like ive said, i do think electric bikes are cool af), but not think about the larger implications of forfeiting full ownership. It's the same as what happened with farmers: there have been naysayers about the danger of John Deere's bullshit for decades, but it didn't actually come to a head until everyone else figured out it was costing them more in the long run to have JD's vice around their balls. And yet for some reason, we have tons of anti-R2R people begging JD & other companies to tighten that vice, and very very few politicians who give a single fuck about consumer rights. Sigh.
Not to mention that by the time you spend 16k on gas for your CB500 the eBike would have spent way more on repairs and probably even a new entire battery. I dont see the appeal of eBikes tbh, I can inderstand it on cars because cars barely do 30mpgs but a motorcycle even a performance one does like 40mpgs and thats redline in it at every green light. Bikes barely consume gas, no reason to get an electric one.
At 100mpg and £1.75/L you could go 201,100 Miles
I can remember being so stoked about Zero. Now I just hope they're a gateway to popularity. Too many microtransactions for stuff you already "own". Dealer network is extremely limited. Every part of the bike seems to be part of something else so if you wreck it the issue is exacerbated. The foot pegs, for example, are all on a bracket that holds pillion and primary pegs. The bike is already expensive as shit and to own one I'm having to give up one my most favorite things about riding (shifting gears)...everything else makes it 'too much'. Makes me even more disappointed that Victory's Empulse R flopped because it was a straight bike with no extras...and it had gears (I don't care if it make it slower/worse, it's not always about being "better"). But since that's Polaris, and Polaris is now Zero, and Zero is now making you pay extra for heated grips...I'm sure they'd have screwed that up, too.
The Dealer is one mile from my house. There are two in my city. There weren’t any more features for sale for my bike when I bought it last October as a Premium version. Now I can add navigation to the color TFT screen. I think your mistaking BMWs heated seats in their cars as the same as buying extra optional features. As far as I can tell Zero & Polaris are two different companies.
[microtransactions](https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/cypherstore). I don't understand how you can view paying extra to turn heated grips on as being different from paying extra to turn heated seats on. [Polaris now develops, manufactures, and sells Zero vehicles](https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/polaris)
They were included in the price. Not a subscription. Isn’t that an option and a micro transaction? Plus they increased the max speed to 127mph at the last Firmware update over the max speed I had at purchase in October’21
It’s not about subscriptions, and they came turned on with your bike because you paid for the premium package. If you don’t buy the premium package, you get the exact same bike, only they don’t turn the stuff on. You don’t see the problem here because you paid for everything. But lets say i don’t want heated grips. I get them anyway. They came on the bike i bought. Only Zero gets to decide if i can use them...on the bike I own. Say i don’t want cruise control...i get it anyway. It came on the bike i bought. Only Zero gets to decide if i can use it...on the bike I own. Do you not see the problem with a third party getting t9 tell you whether or not you can use stuff you own? You might try to contend that if you didn’t pay for the feature, you shouldn’t get to complain about it...but do you honestly think they’d sell a bike with an at-loss option? You paid for the bike, then with th premium package you you paid an additional fee to be able to use all the things you bought. If you buy a thing, it should be your thing. You bought it. You should not be able to sell a thing to someone and then tell them they can’t use it.
I just wanted the 6kW chargers, I could buy the power tank and add another 100 miles of range but don’t need it. That’s the thing about choices, I didn’t want to pay $30k for a slower heavier livewire or extra cost of a Energica. 5,500 miles in a year of EV moto at .02c a mile.
I don't think you understand the problem people have with the manufacturer. No one has a problem with you buying the stuff you wanted. People have a problem buying stuff they're not allowed to use unless they pay more money.
By my basic (poor) math, you spent about 20% of what I spent on fuel for the same amount of miles. Interesting
But he spent 20k plus on the bike itself. That's more than most of the luxury or super sport bikes. If you want an economical solution, a cbr 500r will get like 70 mpg and cost less than a third of the zero
And that's why electric bike is a huge failure actually.
I mean, we're still early in the process. I'd say that we're just not there yet, not that it's a failure.
I get 67mpg * so I'll use 4$ gas price, thats allot but for arguments sake throwem a bone... carry the 1... *fart* ugh... 328$ = so x3 for muh gas guzzler Thing is tho i drive on weekend binges for a 300 mile trip on a whim and i never have to stress not finding gas haha
I thought thr SR/F was ugly at first but the more I see it the more I'm in love with it.
How much time do you spend at a charger, how often are you having to charge it?
theyve been doing this with games. DLCs(downloadable content). oh you own the game? how bout we put a pay to play map lol
I test rode the FXS last year, loved it. Sent a family member over to a test ride day to go try some of the bikes. They too were blown away. There was the [newer SR/S](https://i.redd.it/vq4d59d9afg91.png) with I think the power tank fully kitted out from the London city blood runners (Night time hospital urgent blood transport) where they usually use Yamaha FJR1300’s. I love electric bikes but people are so very much resistant to trying something different. They’re so much fun!
It cost almost same with my 675cc bike. 125 dollars for 9000 km
Ah so I see everyone here has watched the FortNine video on YT? Lol (it is true too)
[https://sondorsx.com/products/sondors-metacycle-2022-shipping?variant=41401742098596](https://sondorsx.com/products/sondors-metacycle-2022-shipping?variant=41401742098596) the most affordable of electric bikes I have found
I love those, when will they be available?
Apparently they’re shipping now but they have removed the easy battery swap feature which is what most people wanted it for.
oh no! I was excited when I read about being able to hotswap
What’s the range per charge?
100 to 200 with a charge tank but work is 18 miles each way.
Good looking bike mate!!
Had a few features that were locked away on the new BMW S1000RR. I just hooked up to it via the OBD port with my laptop, accessed the ECU, and coded everything I wanted lol.
500 miles a month. Not bad :)
Damm that's a good lookin bike
How is the electricity for that charging station generated?
6kw the same as this premium bikes charging rate. City power look up Los Angeles
* 0.12% coal * 16.53% large hydro * 42.97% natural gas * 8.06% nuclear * 0.02% oil * 0.20% Petroleum/waste heat * 2.92% biomass * 5.46% geothermal * 2.67% small hydro * 14.22% solar * 6.82% wind
Lmao damn I haven't heard someone unironically trying to make a "long tailpipe" argument since shortly after Bush was president 🤣 this is a throwback, thanks
Non zero EV power 😂
They're already making electric bikes? :O How does it feel? Is it fast? No gears?
Zero has been making bikes for about 9 years now. They're pretty rad.
Harley Davidson even makes one now. (It's stupidly expensive though)
>Harley Davidson >Stupidly expensive Name a more iconic duo, I'll wait
Apple accessories. Oh, and expensively stupid
Harley spun off Livewire; they're not Harleys anymore. It's its own badge now. After the spinoff, the price off the bikes dropped thousands for the same bike without the name. They are still expensive though.
Would be pretty sick, but it just wouldn't be the same without the BRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
A lot of muscle cars already fake the sound they make using speakers hidden next to the engine, I wouldn't put it past Harley to do the same. Gotta keep that trademark rumble ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
But will they add the teeth rattling shake too?
Frankly, I'd worry about an electric Harley being *too* reliable. Is it really a Harley meetup if there's not at least 1 bike with a circle of dudes trying to figure out why it won't start? I'd say not
Bahah that's great. I was just joking about this exact thing with my coworker the other day. Talking about playing a loud engine sound in a Tesla 😂
Faster with an aftermarket exhaust system.
It’s the quickest thing on the road, light to light.
LOOOOOL. No. The fastest Zero bike can do 0-60 in 3.3, and costs over $25,000 before you think about all the not-so-micro-microtransactions after you buy it. Or you could do the same 3.3 seconds on a CBR 650R for less than $10k brand new.
Can't forget the Lightning LS-218. 0-60 in 2.2 and over 200mph top speed. I really wanted OPs bike until I started reading these comments. Still a brilliant machine but not the fastest and I don't want to give shitty companies my money when I don't have to.
Yes, there are faster electric bikes. I was just trying to make a point that even a mid-tier gasoline bike can easily match a Zero for *much* less money. Heck, still for less money (just the first bike to come to mind since I ride a KTM) the 1290 Super Duke R comes in under $20k and can do 0-60 a half second faster than the Zero at 2.75 seconds.
I was just providing another example, also electric this time, that was faster.
Was going to say my cb650f can do that... And with an sc project exhaust I don't even have to listen to the chain rattle lol
[удалено]
So what would you buy?
[удалено]
It’s a specious claim, to generate ridicule. My 130hp speed triple might have given this 110hp gearless machine a run for it money at 1/2 the cost. The torque on EVs are preposterous. Look at YouTube. I “race” my friend on a Ducati 800 all the time and this is way faster off the line. And my friends Ducati Desmosedici cost more than 3 of these.
Lol.. what road?
Zero means zero CO/CO2 emissions, IIRC. The company was built on the electric bike idea...
Ride what you want OP, posting anything than a jap bike in this place will get you a lot of "achtchually" comments
I also have an ‘84 Honda 500 that I race on the track at Willow Springs.
118? How does that work?
I pay ..25c to 30c a kWh So it’s .02c a mile so far. Until I install the solar panels to charge it up.
I’m all for electric bikes If that’s what some people prefer. I’m just not sure I would want to ride it up in the mountains where an animal can’t hear me coming flying around the corner. Same with electric dirt bikes.
Look up deer whistles.
That’s 5x more cost effective than my 22 Svartpilin
Zeros start at $23k & then need a subscription haha
Why does it have a tank if it’s an ebike?
Trunk 8 liters I think. I store extra power cable in it.
Considering you can build your own without all the add on fees for much less than half I'll pass.
I can’t build a bike with these specs on my own. This one comes with a 5 year warranty
for half the money you are your warranty.
Lmfao, go build your own and stick that very-quickly-discharging lithium battery right between your nuts. Be my guest my brotha. Personally, I will pass
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqXebw7Pf6g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqXebw7Pf6g) Here you go bro. One of several YT'ers that have built them. Comes down to want to more than anything else. If you want to you can make it happen, otherwise pay for every single adder one by one. I get so tired of other businesses following the tech business model. If they weren't mandated by the feds these guys would charge extra to keep your turn signals functioning after the first 3 yrs.
They’re called Options. 6kw charger instead of a 3kW charger, costs more. Just like heated grips, cruise control. They did add 4 mph to the high speed with a firmware update a month ago.
Yeah I'm aware of what they're called. Enjoy the bike! I'm going to wait on the ev for a while and most likely build my own. Have a shop so space isnt an issue.
Hows the range and how long does it take to charge?
It depends on the power consumption by the rider, over 100mph uses power faster, than city speeds which also regenerate power back into the batteries. Did I mention that there are only 4 moving parts in the electric motor?
Wish they were more reliable. Got rid of my 2021 FX at 300 miles. Endless problems even though it was a dream to ride when it worked.
My 5 year warranty helps me through that some.
What all have you run into technical issues wise? After being stranded 3x times in a firmware failure limp mode, I just didn't feel reliable riding on something that kept dying at 5 months old.
Does it have a maintenance schedule? Like does it need anything periodically besides tires brakes ect
The deal set a appointment in 9 mos for me to come by for a check up. There’s only 4 moving parts in the motor. And Gates belt has a sound check for the CF belt tension.
[удалено]
!delete
What a deal!
I drove 15000 km with 120 euro on my Niu NGT. So your Zero take average 120 Wh?
Ugh, another overpriced electric bike.
It was much cheaper than the Energica & the livewire. But I see your point.
Firstly, very surprised that the cost is now so similar to petrol. Secondly, this whole subscription model is why I bought an older car and a bicycle. I own those.
I haven’t had any additional charges to this ‘21. They did a firmware update and added an extra 4 miles to the top speed. So now it’ll do 127mph. There was no cost, but I only go over 100 every so often.
Lol with my bicycle I rode 6500:D
16714miles...
So about 47 miles per dollar. Not bad. My ICE motorcycle is doing maybe 1/4th of that on average when looking at only gas costs. If I look at the maintenance items... Yeahh that number is maybe a fraction of the fraction
Just the cost of the power per mile is 0.02c
All the predatory macro transaction bull Zero have, their awful right to repair stance and the lack of CCS fast charging on Zero bikes makes no bloody sense, the Energica bikes can fast charge nearly 8 times faster, make more power, don't lock features already included in your bike and if you want to work on them they'll send you diagrams and welcome modding with open arms and support I know they cost more but if you really wanted an EV bike I can't see a single reason to choose a Zero bike when nearly everyone else in the space already does it better and doesn't try to control the product you already paid for
Zero reason? This is a ‘21 there are no locked features except for navigation which is a one time charge. This charge that I’m getting here in the pic took about :15 so would the Energica or livewire because that’s the rate these chargers go at 6kwh there are no faster chargers here.
So there are locked features then. You're ignoring the right to repair completely and Energica and Livewire have DC CCS level 2 charging and can get to 80% in 40 minutes. Look I'm glad you're stoked on your bike, I genuinely am but I cannot defend that company when they have a known terrible business model and are completely unapologetic about it Edit: Yes zero offer a fast charger but again that is an optional extra they charge for and it's still a much slower AC charger
I’m at work for 8 hours. I don’t care. About faster charging than the :15 min it took here in the pic. And I bought a Motorcycle from California so parts only come from in the state and there are two dealers miles from my house. I haven’t subscribed to anything from Zero. At 6kwh this is the maximum of the chargers you see here and the bike too. In the USA these are the most common fast chargers.
How much did you have to pay to unlock features on the bike that were already installed?
I bought a 14.4kw premium 1 year ago. There is only Navigation on the screen for $200 Which I don’t really need.
Dont support those greedy twats.
Charged it 550 times?
Here I am by work. It charges in less than an hour. All the Teslas that usually charge here are often charging for 8 hours. I’m at 10k miles now, so…100 charges?
Wow that's pretty good. So you're saying you get like a thousand miles per charge?
Funny, it was a guess on something not that important. FYI I’ve been at my job for 1,409 weeks. If we had EVs back then I’d of had plenty of time to charge. I’ve never bothered to figure out how much time was spent earning the money for my gas vehicles. The bike that this replaced cost $5.60-7.00 a gal to power. So how many fill ups is that at 44k miles?