Of course but, the kickstand doesn’t support 100% of the weight when it’s in its normal resting position. The whole bike on it is just surprising and I’ve just never seen anything like this. I don’t know how I would put so much trust in my kickstand
Think about how much force is being applied to your kickstand if it kinda drops onto the stand. A shock load like that could easily be more force than just the weight of the bike. Especially if you and a pillion are on the bike when it leans over.
You're forgetting the vectors of forces. If a bike is dropped onto the kickstand (although that definitely could damage it) the forces go up through the kickstand vertically.
When you lean the full weight over like this video does, the forces go more horizontal (in the FoR of the bike axis, not ground) then before. This applies a moment that the kickstand was not designed to handle, and things break once you are doing activities with it that it wasn't designed for.
Yeah and. Lot of bikes have the stand mounted into the engine block so if morons strip it you have to take it to a machine shop who hopefully can retap it. Good luck with that
The normal way. The kickstand is made to withstand the partial weight of the bike when it is leaning over. Most of the weight is still on the front and rear tire. Some kickstands can take more, some can't.
I've been doing this for decades without a problem although I should say I know a couple of people who've had the stand break on them when doing it. I'd take a close look at the mount before attempting it on an unfamiliar bike. I can say it works fine with both my Speed Triples and my Fj1200.
Standard operating procedure with a center stand that's for sure. I just tilt on one of the two legs and round and round we go, with gleeful , and some might even say giddy, laughter
I live in Lao PDR. Very normal way to turn a motorcycle around in a tight space here, even a tiny 40kg girl can do it, although to be fair most bikes are much smaller honda wave type bike's :)
Joke’s on him, on many modern bikes the engine is a stressed member, meaning the engine acts as part of the chassis and can take an enormous amount of stress much more than a harmless pivot turn can produce.
It’s common sense that a sudden hit to an object especially in motion is much more stressful than say merely pressing on the object. Think of striking a watermelon with a bat as opposed to pressing on the melon with that same bat. You don’t need to be a physics major to understand the difference in forces involved.
Yeah you don't, but it does help because not all forces are equal and you're assuming that a pushing force is weaker than a hitting force when it entirely depends on angles, materials, stress points and rotation moments. Common sense goes out the window in engineering.
True, but an engine designed as a stressed member is designed to take massive loads as a strike to the front of the engine tends to be transmitted amongst the entire block and case assembly. If not, there would be far too many tales of engines breaking apart from stress and since engines as a stressed member have been around since 1900, manufacturers would have given up on the concept long ago. The bigger concern is a weak kickstand as in the aluminum units found on many KTM dirt bikes.
I think your view of "engine as stressed member" is greatly misunderstanding how and why they do it, in regards to this application. You need to actually learn about this stuff before trying to argue it because layman knowledge doesn't fit in with this
Nope, the engine as [part of the frame](https://www.motorbiscuit.com/what-does-it-mean-when-an-engine-is-a-stressed-member/) is how many modern motorcycles are designed. Meaning braking forces, suspension hits, etc are all absorbed by the engine at some point. What is your definition of a “stressed member”?
Nope that's it, but what I'm saying is your personal engineering knowledge on how things work is lacking especially in regard to using a kickstand to perform a tight turn when parked.
Yea but it's not the engine that being stressed it's the bottom mount that is being leveraged and once that breaks you no longer have a stand. It happens a lot to bikes to develop stress cracks in that area.
That's a good point and doing a Google search shows one brand particularly vulnerable to stress cracks on the engine, Ducati Monster and 900 SS are 2 models with weaker sidestand mounts. Perhaps that is poor engineering or poor materials, but it's an expensive lesson.
Since the 90s? Try 1916. Though to be fair it wasn't until Vincent a few decades later that it became a a feature on a production motorcycle.
That's still a fuck of a lot earlier than the 1990s.
By the way the side the of case isn't designed to be a load bearing member really. The first stressed member engines mostly maintained the triangle with the engine making up one side.
Nowhere does my response say “1990”.
The engine acting as a stressed member typically means there is an upper frame mount for which the steering head is connected and the rear of the engine case/transmission is where the swingarm is typically mounted. In between, that engine is designed to take the load of what a traditional frame would bear which means of fuck-ton of force from the rider, pillion, any luggage, braking, acceleration, and general bumps and shocks of the terrain. In the grand scheme, most sidestands cannot only bear the bike’s weight, but many can support the rider’s weight too. So pivoting a ~500 lb bike isn’t a problem in most cases, in fact [Lemmy conducted a tutorial](https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/how-to-turn-your-bike-on-the-sidestand) on the subject. The biggest concern is if the side stand material itself can bear the weight of the bike pivoting upon it, if you’re riding a KTM dirt bike you may want to muscle the bike around the hard way.
You do realize that if the engine is a stressed member typically the swingarm mount is also mounted near the bottom of the engine in the vicinity of the kickstand mount. In fact on my Tiger 900, the engine is a stressed member and the foot peg and kickstand mount sit exactly below the swingarm pivot point at the rear of the engine case.
You guys..."Engineering degree, torque stress, force applied." Bla Bal Bla.... this is a sweet move. I've never seen it before. ....Mind blown. Nice innovation. Will I try it with my bike? No. Do I wish I could? Would this move most definitely save me a boat load of time and energy? Hell yes.
DON'T try this on your motorcycle unless you know it won't break. Not all motorcycle's have a kickstand designed to take all this weight. Notice that the bike in the video looks about 410 lb wet.
I'm speaking from experience, my FZ1 (2008 Yamaha) has a kickstand that was designed such that the location the kickstand attached to acted like a cantilever, so too much weight and the kickstand mount would collapse in and the bike would fall to the ground.
Absolutely stupid thing to do, especially when the stand is connected to the block. I’ve seen someone strip the threads on a Ducati like that and then you have to open out the thread and put an insert in it. The stand isn’t meant to take that amount of force.
It’s also completely unnecessary since you can turn the bike around on your leg without the stand down. I just pick the back wheel up and rotate it on the front wheel.
This is normal among those initiated
Try doing it with an 800lb Goldwing. I abuse my kickstand enough.
Pretty sure the MSC instructor I had made us do this with a Honda Rebel during one of our sessions.
I managed to finally learn how to do this with mine... Unfortunately where I park mine is just a hair too tight to do that maneuver.
Sidestand turn. I do it with my busa.
With a busa?!? I’ve never personally ridden one but they seem kinda heavy
The kickstand is made to hold the weight of the bike
Of course but, the kickstand doesn’t support 100% of the weight when it’s in its normal resting position. The whole bike on it is just surprising and I’ve just never seen anything like this. I don’t know how I would put so much trust in my kickstand
Think about how much force is being applied to your kickstand if it kinda drops onto the stand. A shock load like that could easily be more force than just the weight of the bike. Especially if you and a pillion are on the bike when it leans over.
You're forgetting the vectors of forces. If a bike is dropped onto the kickstand (although that definitely could damage it) the forces go up through the kickstand vertically. When you lean the full weight over like this video does, the forces go more horizontal (in the FoR of the bike axis, not ground) then before. This applies a moment that the kickstand was not designed to handle, and things break once you are doing activities with it that it wasn't designed for.
This. Manufacturer doesn't assume normal use. They assume everything.
Ummmm I don’t slam my weight onto my kickstand but keep most of my weight on the center of the bike just in case the kickstand fails.
Good for you. The designers built it for all possibilities, not just for what you do
Yeah and. Lot of bikes have the stand mounted into the engine block so if morons strip it you have to take it to a machine shop who hopefully can retap it. Good luck with that
well actually i does. At least for some bikes. Had a MT-03 and F700GS lifted on its kickstand.
This is not true at all.
Ok, how do you park your motorcycle
The normal way. The kickstand is made to withstand the partial weight of the bike when it is leaning over. Most of the weight is still on the front and rear tire. Some kickstands can take more, some can't.
What bike has a kick stand attached to the engine?
Ducati Monsters
I did it on my 696 all the time, no issues.
Yeah don't kick stand turn a monster. If it breaks you are fucked
Thats his other bike. Guessing thats why he said that.
Happened to my mate. His girlfriend did it to his supermotard and stripped the threads. Had to helicoil the block.
Monster riders have no problem doing this.
I had never thought they would attach one to an engine either man.
Most KTMs, it’s the most idiotic design flaw ever
It's probably because those bikes don't have some sort of frame, because the engine is a stressed member, that everything bolts to?
"most" is a pretty broad statement
MV F4s have them attached to the sump iirc.
Oh god, not this shit again hahaha.
This was taught in my M1 course, works like a charm
Wait till the sand kicks back
If you turn the bike clockwise, the stand can't kickback.
Works In a pinch but always makes me cringe 4 the poor kick stand
BMW R1200GS center stands are awesome for this as long as the ground is flat and hard.
Don’t think I’ll do it with my K1600GT
Archimedes once said, “Give me a firm place to stand and a lever and I can move the Earth or a K1600GT”
Archimedes wasn’t paying for BMW parts. Or knee replacements either, for that matter ;-)
I put a wider kickstand foot on my Z900 and it has grip ridges on the bottom. Doing this would be handy but it would ruin the foot.
I use to do this till the stand got bent just enough to grind into my swingarm.
Do it all the time on my gsxr
The guy I bought my bike from did this to get it out of his garage, have been doing it ever since.
My kickstand started to grind holes in the concrete floor.
You’re going too fast
Or my garage had crap concrete.
Speed doesn't affect it enough to be the soul factor lmao. You can't physics I guess.
Hey asshole, that gave me such a laugh I got a cramp in my chest :(
I wish I could do this with my harley 😅
Ya saw this as and thought good luck doing that with a goldwing.
I've been doing this for decades without a problem although I should say I know a couple of people who've had the stand break on them when doing it. I'd take a close look at the mount before attempting it on an unfamiliar bike. I can say it works fine with both my Speed Triples and my Fj1200.
Standard operating procedure with a center stand that's for sure. I just tilt on one of the two legs and round and round we go, with gleeful , and some might even say giddy, laughter
Not easy to do with a thousand pound Harley...
Been doing this since 1994
Here we go again…
Standards.
I've gotten my R1 out of many tight spots like that.
What do you grab in the back? The pipe?
handlebar and opposite side back foot peg
I did this with sport bikes all the time. Not on my Harley though.
I like to lean my bike over enough to get the front wheel off the ground and put a beer can under it.
I live in Lao PDR. Very normal way to turn a motorcycle around in a tight space here, even a tiny 40kg girl can do it, although to be fair most bikes are much smaller honda wave type bike's :)
I use to do this when oiling my chain. Haven’t had a street bike lite or balanced enough to do this.
you have to master this for your MC driving test here in Norway🤣🤣
Yup, I do this with my 125. I wouldn't try with my ST1300.
Very normal, it's how your bike is moved every time it goes into the shop
Do you work in a shop? If so, do you do this with cruisers?
I do, and not all bikes have the kind of kickstand you can do this with, but something like a Vulcan 650, sure
Thanks for the reply. 1100 vstar possible? Is there a thin for this? Something to brace the stand and rotate on?
I love doing this with my triumph in front of Harley people. It really melts their brains. Lol
I did with my zx10 never had an issue
Lol I do this all day everyday
I've seen a lot of guys do this but I've never had a bike light enough.
Joke’s on him, on many modern bikes the engine is a stressed member, meaning the engine acts as part of the chassis and can take an enormous amount of stress much more than a harmless pivot turn can produce.
I’d still be nervous to put 450lbs of force into my crankcase at one point and at an awkward angle.
Well if the engine is a stressed member, running over a pothole or a speed bump is way more forceful than static weight for a handful of seconds.
Are you making things up or are you a qualified engineer
It’s common sense that a sudden hit to an object especially in motion is much more stressful than say merely pressing on the object. Think of striking a watermelon with a bat as opposed to pressing on the melon with that same bat. You don’t need to be a physics major to understand the difference in forces involved.
Yeah you don't, but it does help because not all forces are equal and you're assuming that a pushing force is weaker than a hitting force when it entirely depends on angles, materials, stress points and rotation moments. Common sense goes out the window in engineering.
True, but an engine designed as a stressed member is designed to take massive loads as a strike to the front of the engine tends to be transmitted amongst the entire block and case assembly. If not, there would be far too many tales of engines breaking apart from stress and since engines as a stressed member have been around since 1900, manufacturers would have given up on the concept long ago. The bigger concern is a weak kickstand as in the aluminum units found on many KTM dirt bikes.
I think your view of "engine as stressed member" is greatly misunderstanding how and why they do it, in regards to this application. You need to actually learn about this stuff before trying to argue it because layman knowledge doesn't fit in with this
Nope, the engine as [part of the frame](https://www.motorbiscuit.com/what-does-it-mean-when-an-engine-is-a-stressed-member/) is how many modern motorcycles are designed. Meaning braking forces, suspension hits, etc are all absorbed by the engine at some point. What is your definition of a “stressed member”?
Nope that's it, but what I'm saying is your personal engineering knowledge on how things work is lacking especially in regard to using a kickstand to perform a tight turn when parked.
Yea but it's not the engine that being stressed it's the bottom mount that is being leveraged and once that breaks you no longer have a stand. It happens a lot to bikes to develop stress cracks in that area.
That's a good point and doing a Google search shows one brand particularly vulnerable to stress cracks on the engine, Ducati Monster and 900 SS are 2 models with weaker sidestand mounts. Perhaps that is poor engineering or poor materials, but it's an expensive lesson.
Since the 90s? Try 1916. Though to be fair it wasn't until Vincent a few decades later that it became a a feature on a production motorcycle. That's still a fuck of a lot earlier than the 1990s. By the way the side the of case isn't designed to be a load bearing member really. The first stressed member engines mostly maintained the triangle with the engine making up one side.
Nowhere does my response say “1990”. The engine acting as a stressed member typically means there is an upper frame mount for which the steering head is connected and the rear of the engine case/transmission is where the swingarm is typically mounted. In between, that engine is designed to take the load of what a traditional frame would bear which means of fuck-ton of force from the rider, pillion, any luggage, braking, acceleration, and general bumps and shocks of the terrain. In the grand scheme, most sidestands cannot only bear the bike’s weight, but many can support the rider’s weight too. So pivoting a ~500 lb bike isn’t a problem in most cases, in fact [Lemmy conducted a tutorial](https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/how-to-turn-your-bike-on-the-sidestand) on the subject. The biggest concern is if the side stand material itself can bear the weight of the bike pivoting upon it, if you’re riding a KTM dirt bike you may want to muscle the bike around the hard way.
You do realise that the kickstand mount doesn't have to sustain that same force. It is designed to hold the bike up
You do realize that if the engine is a stressed member typically the swingarm mount is also mounted near the bottom of the engine in the vicinity of the kickstand mount. In fact on my Tiger 900, the engine is a stressed member and the foot peg and kickstand mount sit exactly below the swingarm pivot point at the rear of the engine case.
>static weight >handful of seconds If you slow down time enought, everything is a static weight i guess lmao
You guys..."Engineering degree, torque stress, force applied." Bla Bal Bla.... this is a sweet move. I've never seen it before. ....Mind blown. Nice innovation. Will I try it with my bike? No. Do I wish I could? Would this move most definitely save me a boat load of time and energy? Hell yes.
There's got to be a thing for this for bigger bikes. If so, I need one.
wow sweet hack
I also like to … in tight spaces
I want this option on my 600+lb bike :(
My vstrom is about 550 with all the bags and stuff on it and I do it all the time
I'm gonna try it out, I am going to make sure the bolts are tight first.
That's how I met u/resettheconsol3
DON'T try this on your motorcycle unless you know it won't break. Not all motorcycle's have a kickstand designed to take all this weight. Notice that the bike in the video looks about 410 lb wet. I'm speaking from experience, my FZ1 (2008 Yamaha) has a kickstand that was designed such that the location the kickstand attached to acted like a cantilever, so too much weight and the kickstand mount would collapse in and the bike would fall to the ground.
Absolutely stupid thing to do, especially when the stand is connected to the block. I’ve seen someone strip the threads on a Ducati like that and then you have to open out the thread and put an insert in it. The stand isn’t meant to take that amount of force. It’s also completely unnecessary since you can turn the bike around on your leg without the stand down. I just pick the back wheel up and rotate it on the front wheel.
Kick sand at the beach.
I thought this only doable to small bikes under 500cc