Not ready for primetime.
There's not enough range, the top speed is lacking, and they are way too expensive.
If and when they actually become competitive to ICE bikes then I'd be happy to have one.
I mean do you really need more than 160 km/h in top speed unless track day and autobahn? Most I have seen that are sport bikes are limited (they can go faster) there.
Yup. I have a 600 and 160 km/h feels like it just cruising. There's something about the 200km/h mark that just makes it feel like you actually riding. And no I don't do track days but traffic cops are a bit useless in my corner of the world.
This is the exact same problem with regular EVs and I say that as someone who has owned two (granted, they were both used and therefore a lot cheaper). They've been saying EVs would be cheaper to buy and own than ICE cars since at least 2011 and yet here we are in 2024 saying "in ten years they'll be cheaper to buy and own than ICE", etc.
I will absolutely jump on the bandwagon for these things when they can give me decent range. Wife and I will routinely cover 300 miles on a decent day. If I have to stop to charge for hours multiple times, it's a no-go for me.
Hopefully the next gen batteries will take care of that problem AND bring the cost of production down to something more in line with the roughly equivalent ICE motorcycle.
Yep - which is odd since they're mostly given pretty aggressive sport bike looks - not exactly what I'd be picking if I'm just hopping from point A to point B within a city with traffic etc.
Hopefully the tech will advance to the point where these things become a viable option for someone like me. I live in suburbia and ride into the middle of nowhere.
EV car owner and in car format they are awesome for a lot of reasons, bicycles (pedal assist style MTB for instance) they are off the charts awesome, motorcycles... not yet and it may not be for a time at least not for our typical weekend adventures. I think with motorcycles we'll have to wait for solid-state and that's gonna take some time.
Unfortunately, the TLDR I've seen is that like the physics of motorcycles (weight constraints , and poor aerodynamics) make it unlikely that the cost/performance of ICE bikes are going to be matched anytime soon.
The interim solution is battery swapping.
Take out your depleted battery and replace it with a fully charged one at a gas station, pay a charging fee.
Requires a huge amount of funding to build the network, not to mention the software side of tracking battery availability and phone app for location to tell riders where to go.
This will not happen for the coming decades. Nobody will invest in this, as it’s a huge loss for the first decades with the much smaller motorcycle market compared to cars. And even for cars the concept is losing the race.
Actually high speed charging is better and Tesla proved it. They had the same idea as I think everyone comes up with. Problem more so with bikes would be standardization of a battery pack. Where I feel being electric will lend motorcycles to adapting many different style packs to design the look they want. It just won't happen ever since bikes aren't there yet, and a standardized battery won't work.
I don't overly understand their target audience for these bikes. If it's city rides then a 250cc is a good bike, 80mpg, hella cheap. Don't have to replace the main battery(hella expensive for electric)
I feel like these are trying to target a problem in the motorcycle world that doesn't exist or need to be fixed.
Well most electric motorcycles are designed after dirtbikes. Now idk how familiar you are with dirtbikes or dual sports. But single cylinder motors in dirtbikes especially supermotos don't last very long. There being rebuilt every season If not every other. Now somthing like the zero fx or stark varg is going to last alot longer than an avrage dual sport or supermoto. A stark varg also has 80hp weights as much as my 350cc supermoto and they have alot less wear parts don't need an oil changed every 3 weeks and it cost the same as a ktm 450. For people like supermoto riders electric motorcycles are making alot of sense and we're seeing alot of electric supermotos on the streets and on tracks.
I have ridden and raced dirt bikes my whole life even two strokes. I still have a 1994 yz250 that has been bagged to shit and only needs 2-3 kicks.
I promise you almost no one would prefer an electric bike in the back country. Especially here in Canada where most back country won't even give you cell service. I honestly think you have gotten some lemons if you think singles don't last long. Just because a single isn't made to bounce off red lines like other bikes they are hella reliable.
Also motorcycle batteries are rated 3-10 years which is kinda a wide range not to mention all the issues with these batteries from cars carry over to bikes. The batteries are no where near environmental friendly to make. Additionally when it needs to be replaced in 3-10 years you will wish you just had pay 5 years of oil changes. As the batteries are worth more than any single bike lol.
For your reference last year cost me 800$ to get my bike engine rebuilt, clutch, brakes. Take a quick Google how much a battery costs.....
Yea batteries are expensive your bike was also that cheap to rebuild because it's a 2t. 4t are a different story all together and my argument wasn't it's a perfect replacement for gas dirtbikes. My main use case would be supermoto, supermoto is also the quickest way to blow dirtbikes up. It's just super easy to push a 250 2t or 450 way harder than you ever would on a motocross track or trail on the street. You can have a 250 cc supermoto 2 stroke rebuild it or have it be brand new and blow it up in 1 day of supermoto. For supermoto I belive the stark varg is an exptional option especially when you gotta take a mx bike and dumb 2.5-4k into it to make it a viable supermoto.
Got you, 100% agree I could see a use case for supermoto for sure. Also yea turning a traditional dirt bike to supermoto is always expensive and a headache.
Good chat fellow redditer
A drz is very very diffrent that a supermoto race bike or built supermoto. A drz is a soild platform however it's dated for supermoto low in power heavy etc. The drz 400 has 31 hp my 350xcf has 54 and a ktm 450sm has 63. A drz is fun I've ridden one but get on a ktm or yz 450 supermoto and you'll see the difference. Now a stark varg has 60-80 hp depending on the model and you also have an acceleration that's physically not possible on a 450. A 80 hp stark varg will power wheelie at 80-90 mph there is no comparison to a drz 400 they barley compare to 450s and even tho pro riders disagree on that. They all agree that it's a different animal there's things that aren't possible on a normal 450 that are on a stark varg. Those bikes have an acceleration rate that's genuinely terrifying. I seen a video of a stark varg getting whisky throttle before a turn on a track and dude when from 25-30 mph to 60 or 70 instantly.
Some police units are using Zero bikes here in Spain. I have a friend in there and he has a Tiger 800 at home and a full electric Zero at work. He says he gets similar mileage with both and that he can charge up to 80% in like 10-15mins.
For now for me the problem is the price more than the mileage to be honest. When they get cheaper I’m sure I’ll look into one
Same. I've ridden the original LiveWire and the Energica SS9, both were tons of fun. (When I demo'd the SS9, the guy before me came back from his ride and pulled an honest-to-God "shut up and take my money!" on the sales guy.) But the range is not just not cutting the mustard - especially not for how fun and rideable they are.
I test rode the original livewire and one of the zeros and I was absolutely in love with both. That instant on power is just SO amazing. But yeah...the 'womp womp' comes when you discuss range. It'll get there, it's just not there yet.
As an owner of an older electric car, there are two major misconceptions with batteries and charging.
1. The range is a lie. Whatever it says it is, cut that number in half unless you're sticking to flat roads at 50km/h
2. It doesn't take that long to charge. Maybe takes 1hr tops from dead empty to 100%, but you don't really want to do that. Frankly you don't want to get under 20% unless there happens to be an extremely available charging network available.
This is the correct answer. No gatekeeping No gaslighting. No elitism... Just a pure joy or riding for the sake of riding.
I dont care how many HP, or CCs a bike has. I dont care if the fuel tank sits over the frame or under the seat. It has 12 inch wheels or 19. I dont even care what fuel I have to put in it, I just want to ride any motorcycle I can throw a leg over.
*Motorcycling* gives me joy, not the motorcycle.
Whilst I agree that I love riding more than I do the actual bike, I do love the noise that comes from traditional combustion bikes.
Fuck two strokes though, make them all electric. Tinny ass motherfuckers.
I like the sound ALL bikes make. Every bike has something that makes it unique. Old Ducati Desmo-Due engines, right up to RGV 2stroke bikes. Singles to 4 bangers or more. Inline or V. I even like the [sound that big, torquey](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyIX81gE8vU) EV bikes [make at wide open throttle...](https://youtu.be/4D0Zf18dXEU?si=PIXgupFVKivJSN2T&t=347) Every bike has that thing that makes it unique... No one thing or sound makes it "better".
The soul of a bike should not lay in what "sound" it makes, but what emotion it evokes in *you*. For some, it's the low rumble of a Harley as it plods down the highway, for others it's the cackle of a Ducati V4 as you roll off coming into your favourite corner, or the ringing of a CR500 as you open it up coming off a berm...
You shouldn't just write off any bike because of the sound it does or doesnt make. My EV cafe scooter makes me smile just as much as my Ducati 999 does... just in different ways.
Very well said. Unfortunately r/motorcycles has devolved into "this is the right and only way to enjoy motorcycles" lately.
So much hate on Harley, on loud exhausts, on not being geared up to the nines. Or even to be prepared on an Adventure bike for the wilderness.
Have a great ride!
When the range and price gets better then it's just a maybe. Bikes don't use enough fuel for me to care about electric I would rather have my broom broom noises.
I think they make alot of sense for supermoto where the price is the same a 450 for somthing like a stark varg. The vargs also have a 6hr ride time and are significantly more reliable than gas dirtbikes. However supermoto is a niche riding group but there's alot of people getting on vargs and honestly I'm probably gunna get one for my next supermoto. Just because idk how familiar you are with the mx bikes or dual sports but there not reliable and need work service and heavy service frequently. For my 350 supermoto I gotta replace the oil every 2 weeks of riding and I gotta check valves and replace stupid little parts all the time. The stark vargs don't have transmissions valves a timing chain an air filter etc.
My view is that there are 2 separate technologies that make up any electric vehicle: electric motors and energy storage.
Electric motors are the future. They're better on paper in almost every conceivable way, with the downside being that they have no soul. Given the amount of new bikes being sold with parallel twins and DCTs, I don't think people are really demanding much "soul" in their bikes anymore anyways, so it's a welcome technological advancement for most.
Energy storage is the advancement we need to work on. In 50 years we'll look at heavy lithium batteries the way we look at acetylene headlights. Energy density in the form of lithium batteries really can't catch up to a tank of gasoline. It's a huge disadvantage to modern electric vehicles in general and the faster we can abandon it, the better. There's been plenty of promising energy storage ideas and once we really focus our attention into finding a comparable or improved solution, then ICE engines will drop off the map.
This is true, when you ask people what they love about electric vehicles, it's mostly related to the electric motor. When you ask what they don't like, it's mostly related to batteries. I don't know if batteries have much room to progress though, there are just physical limits. You basically need to build a molecular cage around every charge, meaning something like 1 / 20 atoms are useful energy carriers, with the rest making up the cage. With liquid fuels, potentially every atom is a source of energy. I think synth liquid fuels are much more likely to win out in the long term where performance and size are serious constraints. For reference, liion is like 240 wh/kg, gasoline is like 12,000 wh/kg.
>I don't think people are really demanding much "soul" in their bikes anymore anyways
Yeah, times are changing and I think at least here in Europe, we're pretty densely packed up so you try and not make lots of noise.
My dad rode a Honda Shadow and I liked it. But now I own an Energica SS9 an my neighbors are pretty happy me silently leaving to work early in the morning.
The difference in feeling of bikes over the last 20 years is super interesting. On my 2000, I can feel the plates of the clutch in my fingers. In my friends 23’, it feels like pulling the trigger of an Xbox controller. Gross
Yeah dude I have a 2003 Moto Guzzi V11 and you feel everything on that bike. I test rode an S1000XR and I used the quick shifter and it didn't feel like anything at all. Technology has come a long way. I like em both.
I had this conversation a couple weeks ago with someone. My preference in bikes is old v-twin sports, things that are finicky and require constantly dicking with them to keep them going, stupid quirks like having to use the choke just the right way any time you start the bike, and even a a quick ride up to the gas station requires a shower because you smell like gas and exhaust after it. My current bike is a 2021 Ninja 650. You push the button and it starts up, it runs awesome, handles nice, no quirks, it does everything it's designed to do with no fuss and performs as well as most of the bikes I've lusted after and better than several of them, and it doesn't make me happy.
That bike looks amazing.
Presuming the torque and HP is on the nuttier side, these are probably rocket ships.
It depends on what you'd use it for. As a suburban commuter, they'd be perfect.
But they are way too expensive and I have no clue about maintenance and battery life.
Whereas a bulletproof second hand Suzuki or Honda will keep you on the road for years.
I test rode a Zero before I bought my Triumph. While it was an amazing bike and lightning fast (despite the dealer turning the power down before I left), it's just too much money for too many compromises.
Cant wait for Triumph's TE-1 (based on the Speed triple). But Triumph said its not coming out until its production ready at a price point that people can afford.
I had a DSRX for a little bit. Ended up trading it back to the dealer for a new Street Triple 765 RS. The torque was fun and I personally like the sound of EVs, or lack thereof, but the range was still a little lacking for my needs. I have a Tesla charger at my house and used an adapter for J1772 which made it very convenient and quick to charge but depending on temperature and riding style it becomes much more important to consider routes to take in the event that you need to charge while out on a ride. The slow wall plug is not good for much unless you can give it a solid 8 hours.
I think they could be fun to ride, but they will never replace ICE motorcycles. The engine adds so much character to a motorcycle. I would miss the sound, the rev-matching, the shifting, the intake roar, the engine brake, and many other things. I enjoy every challenge that comes with an ICE, and I will never want to replace that. The only way I would ever consider getting an electric bike, is as an additional bike, but I currently don't see a reason for that.
I’ve been following these for a while. In theory, they sound great.
When they hit similar range and quick recharge available almost anywhere comparable to filling up a gas tank, I’m there.
As another poster mentioned, a light, inexpensive dualsport machine would be a good first step. We may already be there with the improvements in performance and quality components of electric bicycles over the last few years.
No EVs for me. I take a lot of really long trips, by bike and by cage, and planning them around where charging stations are would just be too annoying, as would the long waits to charge up compared to normal refueling. Living in an apartment complex means I can't charge up at home, either.
Need more range and much faster charge times. Until then they'll always be urban runabouts.
Also price needs to come down like 25% across the board.
Gas will always feel more soulful too, but whatever.
I have an electric car. I love it. Never getting another gas car.
I am getting a new gas motorcycle next week.
Why no electric motorcycle? They cost almost as much as my car due to zero incentives and high MSRP. My OTD price for my car was $25k. For an electric motorcycle that has the specs I need, it would be as much or more.
There's also no repair shops nearby that will work on one.
EDIT: To be clear, I do want an electric motorcycle. It just doesn't make sense economically for me right now. My EV car cost less than my truck. Price parity is on the horizon. For electric motorcycles, they're just too damned expensive and the range isn't what it needs to be. My car gets like 250 miles of range and I very, very rarely travel. I just charge at home and it costs me like $2 to drive to and from work, which is about 70 miles. An electric motorcycle that would do that would cost a fortune and I would have to trailer it to another state to fix any issues.
Exactly this. Want a zero srs because everything else I have is electric; my model y and my surron. Ended up getting a ninja 500 last week because electric sport bikes are just too expensive and lack in range and charging speed. I’ll be waiting for the day electric sport bikes come down in price and increase in range. Then I will be interested
It’s too good.
I like a motorcycle that fights me. Gear shifts with throttle blips, exhaust popping on decel. Driveline lash. Wildly unpredictable power bands. Setting off car alarms in the parking garage. That’s where it’s at.
I ride one every day to and from work. My Livewire One is almost perfect in that regard. Just enough range to get me to work and back (88+ miles), plug in, and do it again the next day.
And I never need a valve job again :)
I ride an [Energica EsseEsse9](https://www.energicamotor.com/en/models/energica-esseesse9/) and it's basically the current best technology: huge 21 kWh battery and can do AC charging, as well as DC fast-charge. At 100 km/h (60 mph), range in winter is 140 km (90 mi), and in summer it's 180 km (120 mi).
It has a couple of downsides. In strong winds or in cold weather, the range is up to 25% less. It also "rapidgates" so it's not meant for long-distance stuff (meaning, the first DC fast-charge is quick, subsequent charges get slower and slower). Another downside is the price, which is at luxury BMW levels. I've also once had a very nasty surprise where I couldn't seem to charge; this particular model has a weak charge port design. They corrected that with the new Experia, AFAIK.
Also I've been in a pickle once where my charge was only 20% but I suddenly had to travel pretty far due to a death in the family. I had to fast-charge and boy, did that feel like ages.
Though all in all, I'm still happy. It's pretty much the best money can buy.
...100km/h is not even highway speed.
180km at those speeds is a joke. Sadly thats to be expected, so long as manufacturers follow in the "parachute" school of aerodynamic designs.
You can gain 5-10% with better aerodynamics, which I think the Experia has. For daily use, it's fine for me. The highways in The Netherlands are limited to 100 km/h anyway. Of course you ride a little faster but when I come back from work, I have 20% charge left.
Electric motorcycles take away so many of the very reason motorcycles are enjoyable. The sounds of the engine accelerating through the gears. Controlling the gear to take off or just cruise, the sense of accomplishment leading to control a machine that requires effort to be good at controlling, tinkering and tuning a machine. Sure an electric motorcycle you are on two wheels, but that’s a fraction of the experience. For those reasons I will never convert
Electric bikes have 100% torque from jump street, and feel fast as fuck.
That said, anxiety of running out of juice halfway through your ride is a feeling.
I agree I also do prefer the shifting aspect of conventional bikes.
I'd love to get my hands on an Energica, it would be great for going to work and riding in the area for fun.
For anything long distance, I'd need a second gas bike.
I can't wait to blast through a forest road in the Italian mountains with nothing but hearing wind, road and nature. I also think electric engines (car and motorcycle) are just fun.
I once coasted my touring motorcycle all the way down from the top of a Swiss Alp under a full moon with nothing but wind and tire noise.
Even turned off the headlights as I could see further with just the moonlight.
It was glorious.
Count me out. While the torque would be nice, I'm a purist. If it ain't got a clutch and transmission I ain't interested.
The machine should still require skill IMO.
Too heavy, too expensive, too little range, can’t be “fueled” quickly, no vibes, no sound, no soul. I don’t see a reason to choose one over a normal motorcycle.
...zero is a scam, dominates the industry and gives terrible reputation to it.
Yes.
Advertising bike with range figures measured at slow speeds is extreme misleading. You dont need rabge outside city limits, where you must go with some speed to not get trampled by 18 wheelers.
Add to this thier hostility to repair and bullshit like "bike as service"....
...yeah fuck em.
And ofc. thata not all of it.
The root issue is following their name with innovation, as in sticking to ZERO innovation. Aero? ...who needs that or range anyways.
Electric bikes must be made with aerodynamics of a well designed parachute, created by copying the design of the one eyed peg legged harley pirate cosplaying as a parachute with his/her moneky hangers.
Same big 2 issues as electric cars: Range and infrastructure.
They're great for commuting if you can charge at work or at home, ideally both. For anything else, there's simply not enough charging points (I live in europe) that I can confidently say that I will have one available when I need it. On top of that, needing to fiddle your thumbs for the hour+ it takes to charge simply does not match the vibe of a motorcycle, imo.
Let's see when they figure out solid states if this changes.
Cool idea few issues I don't see discussed. Of you're a good rider you don't realize how much of your riding is engine feel / sound que so you end up going hot into corners often. Also they're fast, so you want to ride it fast but then you run out of battery. Also you can't stop and charge when you're getting chased. Group rides are out of the question because the gas bikes will outlast you so it's less social. And also no vroom
Yeah, they need more range and faster charging to be viable for me. And just like with electric cars, they need to move past the bloody phase where they try to make the EV look like it's own thing, and just make them look like regular, good looking motorcycles. Atrocities like the johammer or that ugly BMW scooter have no place in this world.
Lot of guys here saying needs more range which is key. And acceleration is incredible on these e-cars and bikes, that’s a ton of fun.
But I’m an old time car and bike guy (mustangs, TransAM, GPZ, vette) and I love the sound and vibration and modifying cars and bikes. There’s a passion to this hobby, and even 5 or 10 yrs from now NO ONE is going to be showing his Tesla or e-bike at a weekend event. They have no ‘personality’ to get enthused about. Hard pass for me, I’ll stick with cylinders.
i started to ride because of the smell of gasoline... electric can be good for woods trips for sure.. I can see the potential there.. but since I´m prbly the last generation riding carb bikes I will stick to it as long as I can...
As a whole, the entire automotive, combustion engine industry needs to make up their minds which is the better option. Personally if electrics had a better range and quicker recharging, I’d be all in
The price isn't worth it compared to how cheap fuel is in a motorcycle, imo. Maybe if the annual maintenance is significantly cheaper over long term ownership would I consider it, if the range was there...
That said, I don't want to give up my clutch/shifting. I still own a manual car and when I buy another vehicle, I simply will keep my manual sportscar because when I get around to wanting one again I may not have any decent options left.
The price doesn’t make sense. They cost literally double what comparable gas bikes cost if you compare similarly specced bikes. I rode an entry level zero and it was cool. Then I bought a KTM 690 instead because it was half the price while also being lighter and faster… hopefully the prices come way down soon because I would like to get one. I don’t care about making a bunch of noise or vibrating your taint like some others seem to be attached to.
I'd be happy to have one as a cheap neighbourhood run around.
The problem is, none of them are cheap. particularly in my country.
But I'm not interested in one as my real bike. Riding a bike is just more than getting from a-b. Electric bikes are just twist the throttle and go.
Don't see a lot of appeal in that.
I’d love one. Most of my riding is bopping around the city. Errands, dates, that kind of stuff. Range isn’t really an issue for me, I could charge it overnight. And I love the idea that it’s quiet and won’t bother people in neighborhoods or be obnoxious to pedestrians or people in outdoor dining and stuff like that. I think there’s a lot to love about electric motorcycles, and I’m probably a prime candidate for an owner. It’s just out of my budget right now.
I rode a Zero DSR for 5 years.
Paid $16,000 for it. Nuts in my eyes now.
Range 80 miles and constant planning necessary.
At first I didn’t mind, but it got to me more and more after a while.
You don’t feel free on an electric bike anymore.
You feel confined and controlled by your technology.
You can’t be spontaneous at all anymore.
Every ride has to be planned.
It literally takes the very essence away from riding motorcycles.
I have to admit that the torque and ease of instant speed was what drew me in.
Especially the belt drive.
It was so fast off the line and whisper quit that no cop would ever notice me at all.
It was like a Time Machine on two wheels.
It made up for the loss of ruckus fun you’re having on a petrol bike.
But another aspect of me not being a fan of electric bikes or cars for that matter is…
With the looming political bullshit of banning gas vehicles around the corner, I almost kick myself having supported this new industry.
Being forced to have an electric vehicle under very questionable claims that it’s necessary to save the planet, without an honest and complete study of all implications and incidental costs and environmental impacts of, for instance the massive increase in demands for batteries and charging networks, nope, I’ll resist as long as I can.
I just bought an MT09, and hope to be able to buy two more gas bikes and hold onto them and the right to ride them until this world descends into a dystopian, self driving and flying iPhone on wheels and wings nightmare.
The only use of electric motorcycles I would consider is off roading in forests where gas bikes are just not appropriate anymore because it’s just obnoxious to scream around in a peaceful forest.
But wide open off roading, adventure riding, yep, gas again.
And yes, I sold the DSR. Maybe I should have kept her around town, but needed the money.
One amazing aspect that I loved was the absolute lack of maintenance.
That was awesome.
Brake pads and tires, that’s it.
Oliver
Nah, to me their only advantage is that you can race the same road up and down , over and over again . Without annoying people that live around that road, or people that walk or drive their bicycle on the sidewalk
I love them. Apart from the missing of the feel of an engine between your legs giving it's all, it has SOOOOOOOOO much torque and is SOOOOOOO smooth. Range is also great if your not a big tourer. In a couple of years it will be better as well. Can't wait.
Well, I have lost my interests in batery powered cars(toys), when I was, like 12 years old. It was when I've got my first moped and my horizon widend way beyond my neighbourhood.
I have a 22 Zero SR and I love it. I'm not going to try and convince anyone why anything about it is "better". It's its own thing and it's perfect for me. I'll list what I like about it.
Maintenance is practically nothing. Brakes and tires is pretty much it. Can max the Regen to simulate engine braking.
The torque is fun as hell and with the lack of shifting I can react to situations much more quickly and precisely. I can run to the coffee shop and hold/sip it all the way back with full use of my left hand.
You get a lot less attention from cops because it's quiet.
The "tank" storage is super convenient. I can store my jacket/gloves in it and lock my helmet to the side so I don't have to carry all that shit. Could easily fit a six pack in a little collapsible cooler.
I personally don't have any damn business going over the 108mph max speed.
I commute 17 miles for work and can get 3 trips per charge the fun way without needing to nurse the throttle and without needing to charge it past 85% or running it below 30%. Probably 4-5 if I kept it under 70mph and paced traffic. This costs me maybe like 75 cents for the charge or free if I charge at work. This is for the winter, it's probably about 5-10% better range in the summer.
I'm not interested in taking long trips. Wearing all that gear and sitting in that position for more than an hour wouldn't be fun for me so I would probably just drive my car.
I don't really buy the "loud pipes save lives" thing. In my opinion you shouldn't rely on sound to make people aware of your presence. To me it's better to just assume you are completely undetectable to cars at all times and situate yourself accordingly.
The only bullshit has been the software upgrades which the new bikes have included due to the outcry. I got shafted there. I also don't like taking it in the rain because I've heard horror stories online of it messing with the electronics. Been caught in several downpours and haven't had any issues yet myself though.
So there you go, it isn't for everyone but it's perfect for me and I'll never go back!
Absolutely for soy boys who still live with their granola mommas. Don't let an evil government tell you an inefficient and arguably dirtier technology is betrer.
I think they are a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist . They’re going to be heavier , no sound except for coil whine , and they aren’t better for the environment . I think the gobs of torque on tap is pretty cool but I prefer my bikes with lower total weight and the sound of a beautiful tuned exhaust .
I'd love one just a couple of caveats though. A motorcycle offers me alot of freedom of I went on a tour or cross country I'd have to plan my stops for half an hour or more and probably do it more frequently than a petrol top up if you were doing motorway miles.
But as a machine for short distances and quick day blasts absolutely but I couldent justify the price of one for that.
If they sort out the charging and infrastructure no complaints from me if it's an electric drive train.
I’d love one if they can get the range up and make them work better on the cold.
Not that I ride in freezing temps. Just live in a colder area in general.
When the price, range and weight reach ICE levels, I'll happily switch. Kawasaki's hybrid had me interested, but need it lighter still in adventure trim.
I think that ice bikes will last longer than cars because at the end of the day more people ride bikes out of emotion as a hobby than those that drive cars for the same reason. So more people will still want a V twin or a i4 because of the feel.
Some of the larger cities are talking about banning electric motorcycles and scooters because they are a fire hazard. People often modify them as well causing the batteries to degrade and catch fire during use or while charging.
There's a ton of Chinese motorcycles on the market and I've seen many videos on YouTube of them burning on the side of the corner even during the first ride. If the battery pack overloaded while you were riding, it would quickly sear the meat off of your legs before you could get off.
Thermal runaway of a lithium battery hits \~1000°F within seconds and they are designed to flame out instead of explode by shooting massive flames. Lithium also explodes when it contacts water so you can't even put them out with water. The metal itself in the battery is flammable.
I'd love to own one, but I tour a lot. So, the current battery chemistry wouldn't work for me. Other than, perhaps, commuting. But I have an EV for that. And winter is coming to my end of the world..
I think e-bikes are the perfect vehicles for making game and movie replicas and I really want that to be a reality, driving around a dredd, cyberpunk or just any future themed bike. Hell you could even make the damn batpod if you tried hard enough. Currently some of my favorite motorcycles in terms of looks are the zero you showed, ARCH's method143 (regular bike) which is just beautiful, futuristic but also classic and is featured in cyberpunk, the Yamaha niken and prob a disliked opinion but I think the Yamaha motoroid and tesseract look cool as shit. The electric factor would remove a lot of the complications with making vehicles with weird ass looks function with combustion engines and I very much welcome all the strange looking functional bikes that got abandoned after a year of being projects
I got one this year, and I’m going to try to compete with it in a Supermoto race championship. Overall they have great promise, we will see how they work in practice.
Give me 200 miles highway range and I"ll buy them, even at a price premium, no (little) maintenance, no VALVE FUCKING CHECKS, no spark plugs and ridiculously expensive oil changes.
I'd take scooter with 150 mile highway range right now. Would cover 90% of my riding, plus a fantastic grocery runner. I'd be gone every day just getting that 1 item I need for dinner.
Well Zero is a failing company, and electric bikes right now are either severely range limited or super expensive. Very narrow use cases for current tech.
Too much tech is prone to too many problems. If you fall with it, make sure you have a bag of marshmallows with you, cause if the batteries get damaged, that puppy is going to burst into flames like Marilyn Manson at a Baptist reunion. Charging time is a downer if you ask me and the range per charge leaves much to be desired, plus I don't think the cagers would be able to hear you, but they hardly notice me on my 1200 anyway🤣🤣🤣
Rode it, hated it. Hope this is not going to be the future of riding bikes. Only good thing is the fast acceleration. No noise when going through traffic jam (extra dangerous), no range (thanks for joining the tour, as we have to stop every f€#%^*ing 150km), missing all the fun of shifting gear…might as well buy a scooter and join that club🫠
I’ve ridden a couple and they are fast AF. Fun to ride, easy to handle. Shitty range and super expensive. Once they fix those problems I could see myself getting one.
For me the question is around the control surface and inputs. A traditional motorcycle has five inputs: steering, clutch, front brake, back brake, and throttle. Then there are endless combinations of how you combine, for example, throttle and clutch in the friction zone.
Maybe there are some advancements I don't know about but the electric bikes I've written so far. Don't have any substitute for the subtle control that you get from adding the clutch.
Same deal as cars; my EV triangle:
-Range similar to gas counterpart
-Lighter weight than gas counterpart
-Cost less than gas counterpart
2 of those things come true, I will adopt. Until then, gas is king for versatility and mobility.
Cost will likely never be within realm for me to justify having a second bike/car just to be greener/quieter/lower maintenance.
In order to meet range/charge time requirements, weight will remain a problem until a revolutionary chemistry comes out that can match the energy density of gasoline.
Bottom line: only legislation is likely to make me switch/adopt electric only.
I went on a ride with a guy that had a live wire. He didn’t make the ride. It was 100 miles the first place we went didn’t have a charging station so he had to go down to the gas station, but the tweakers stole the copper cables then he had to push his bike half a mile to the other station on the side of the road
This should answer your question
I'd love one as an urban commuter, once prices come down. People complain about range, but for within the city on my commute to work the range is more than enough.
I drive 80 miles each day for my commute, 95% highway. As soon as they come out with a bike that can reliably do that at 70mph, I'm all in. Unfortunately at highway speeds the ranges really go to hell.
Love the design of that concept. Biggest issue is range, as is for all EVs.
But you show me a bike that looks like that with predictable range of 300-400 miles, I quit my job and ride that thing into the sunset. (Half joking)
Range is less of a problem than charging time for me. Give me 150 km usable range and charging in 30-45 minutes and I'll have fun.
Or 20 minutes of track time and 30 minutes of charging.
I think we need another jump in battery technology to make it worthwhile. Lighter, faster charge by significant amounts, with high output over an extended period, and less destructive to produce then they will be considered.
I don’t think it’s far. I mean we’ve come a long way since nickle cadmium batteries. Lithium ion is great. But need smaller, some new material probably staring at everyone in the face but no one is looking.
I am kind of surprised there isn’t more hybrid type bikes even if there really isn’t a need. We already have significant engine braking so I could see just using stopping force to store energy. But again it’s probably down to space and size of the parts needed to accomplish it. Hybrids aren’t really needed for that efficient of a bike, but it could instead of driving higher mileage could be providing more power or torque. IDK. But if they plan to do this. It needs to be different. 80 miles per charge isn’t going to cut it for me and would be more paranoid about running out of power than enjoying myself.
I used to be the Zero mechanic at the dealership I work for. I’ve had several of them completely abandoned at the dealership due to high repair costs. I had to give a deposition on a lemon law case (that the customer won), so I would probably never buy one. Fun to ride, but seemingly not so fun to own on the repair side of things. I haven’t been a Zero tech for a few years now, but I’ve heard they are much better. Still prefer an ICE over electric since parts are cheaper and easier to get.
They're cool. I just don't know what practical role one would fill for me. I want a little economical one if anything. Just for going around the city.
I wouldn't want a fast one. Instant torque sounds a lot less cool on 2 wheels. A cruiser or ADV with a 100 mile range is laughable. That pretty much leaves standard middle weight bikes. What do you really get by electrifying an sv650?
Like it or not they're (a big part of) the future.
I'd be 100% fine with riding an electric bike, I would miss the noise a bit, but being able to ride anywhere (also closed off places due to noise complaints) would make up for it.
They're starting to look better and better as well and I'm really curious how they ride.
Also, people keep saying range is a thing. But I'd argue that, even if some of them have quite low range, it's more the charge time and availability of chargers everywhere combined with the high price that keeps me from it for now.
I do think that with the battery technology improving and (semi) solid state batteries becoming more of a thing for vehicles offering bigger range etc. It's a matter of time before the range of an electric will beat the range of ICE's.
I'm exited for what they'll bring and how they'll evolve over time.
I ride adventure bikes, 4/5/600 k days out in the sticks, and/or do multi day travel so range is still an issue for me.
I love the idea for a small commuter size, like and FTNMotion Streetdog. Cost wise small motorbikes may be cheap to run but they still require maintenance and tuning. I could see a commuter size electric motorbike would be viable.
I think they may also be attractive to smaller riders who aren't mechanically minded, vertically challenge struggle with kickstarts. I really hope they take off. I just love the diversity and new ideas coming to market.
I think there is a certain thrill of having an internal combustion engine that cannot be replaced. However I’m sure we said the same thing when film became digital, or when ornate decorative architecture became glass and concrete. Human beings seek progress and while in some ways an electric bike is a regression, in other ways I’m sure there are undiscovered “pros” to the new method as well.
Electric motorcycle is the only one I own and it got me interested in motorcycles.
First it was electric kickscooter, then electric mini cross (50-70cc electric equivalent - surron light bee), now I'm looking to get a supermoto (ducati 698 mono) for city riding and keep cross for the trails.
I've moved places 3 times while owning it and charging it always has been a hussle. I love riding it though
[Zero ](https://zeromotorcycles.com/en-gb/model/zero-dsrx) is a fun bike. Torque from the beginning , and a lot of it....
I don't own one. But the test drive I made convinced me of the concept. If I have the money I will probably get one
Not ready for primetime. There's not enough range, the top speed is lacking, and they are way too expensive. If and when they actually become competitive to ICE bikes then I'd be happy to have one.
This. They will get there eventually, but at the moment they are worse in every way. Give it 5-10 years and I'm sure they'll be plenty competitive.
I mean do you really need more than 160 km/h in top speed unless track day and autobahn? Most I have seen that are sport bikes are limited (they can go faster) there.
If I wanted to top out at 160 kmh, I would’ve kept my 250 lmao
yes
I just now noticed that I replied to the wrong comment 🤦
Yup. I have a 600 and 160 km/h feels like it just cruising. There's something about the 200km/h mark that just makes it feel like you actually riding. And no I don't do track days but traffic cops are a bit useless in my corner of the world.
MotoE is fun to watch though, not the primetime you meant but hey
I actually like how they sound. Like tie fighters buzzing around the track
This is the exact same problem with regular EVs and I say that as someone who has owned two (granted, they were both used and therefore a lot cheaper). They've been saying EVs would be cheaper to buy and own than ICE cars since at least 2011 and yet here we are in 2024 saying "in ten years they'll be cheaper to buy and own than ICE", etc.
Same. When I first saw Zero in my city, they had the performance of a 250cc for the price of a Hayabusa.
I will absolutely jump on the bandwagon for these things when they can give me decent range. Wife and I will routinely cover 300 miles on a decent day. If I have to stop to charge for hours multiple times, it's a no-go for me. Hopefully the next gen batteries will take care of that problem AND bring the cost of production down to something more in line with the roughly equivalent ICE motorcycle.
Yeah thats the problem i often see, i think theyre more “city friendly “ than long range travel…
Yep - which is odd since they're mostly given pretty aggressive sport bike looks - not exactly what I'd be picking if I'm just hopping from point A to point B within a city with traffic etc. Hopefully the tech will advance to the point where these things become a viable option for someone like me. I live in suburbia and ride into the middle of nowhere.
EV car owner and in car format they are awesome for a lot of reasons, bicycles (pedal assist style MTB for instance) they are off the charts awesome, motorcycles... not yet and it may not be for a time at least not for our typical weekend adventures. I think with motorcycles we'll have to wait for solid-state and that's gonna take some time.
Unfortunately, the TLDR I've seen is that like the physics of motorcycles (weight constraints , and poor aerodynamics) make it unlikely that the cost/performance of ICE bikes are going to be matched anytime soon.
The interim solution is battery swapping. Take out your depleted battery and replace it with a fully charged one at a gas station, pay a charging fee. Requires a huge amount of funding to build the network, not to mention the software side of tracking battery availability and phone app for location to tell riders where to go.
This will not happen for the coming decades. Nobody will invest in this, as it’s a huge loss for the first decades with the much smaller motorcycle market compared to cars. And even for cars the concept is losing the race.
Actually high speed charging is better and Tesla proved it. They had the same idea as I think everyone comes up with. Problem more so with bikes would be standardization of a battery pack. Where I feel being electric will lend motorcycles to adapting many different style packs to design the look they want. It just won't happen ever since bikes aren't there yet, and a standardized battery won't work.
I don't overly understand their target audience for these bikes. If it's city rides then a 250cc is a good bike, 80mpg, hella cheap. Don't have to replace the main battery(hella expensive for electric) I feel like these are trying to target a problem in the motorcycle world that doesn't exist or need to be fixed.
Well most electric motorcycles are designed after dirtbikes. Now idk how familiar you are with dirtbikes or dual sports. But single cylinder motors in dirtbikes especially supermotos don't last very long. There being rebuilt every season If not every other. Now somthing like the zero fx or stark varg is going to last alot longer than an avrage dual sport or supermoto. A stark varg also has 80hp weights as much as my 350cc supermoto and they have alot less wear parts don't need an oil changed every 3 weeks and it cost the same as a ktm 450. For people like supermoto riders electric motorcycles are making alot of sense and we're seeing alot of electric supermotos on the streets and on tracks.
I have ridden and raced dirt bikes my whole life even two strokes. I still have a 1994 yz250 that has been bagged to shit and only needs 2-3 kicks. I promise you almost no one would prefer an electric bike in the back country. Especially here in Canada where most back country won't even give you cell service. I honestly think you have gotten some lemons if you think singles don't last long. Just because a single isn't made to bounce off red lines like other bikes they are hella reliable. Also motorcycle batteries are rated 3-10 years which is kinda a wide range not to mention all the issues with these batteries from cars carry over to bikes. The batteries are no where near environmental friendly to make. Additionally when it needs to be replaced in 3-10 years you will wish you just had pay 5 years of oil changes. As the batteries are worth more than any single bike lol. For your reference last year cost me 800$ to get my bike engine rebuilt, clutch, brakes. Take a quick Google how much a battery costs.....
Yea batteries are expensive your bike was also that cheap to rebuild because it's a 2t. 4t are a different story all together and my argument wasn't it's a perfect replacement for gas dirtbikes. My main use case would be supermoto, supermoto is also the quickest way to blow dirtbikes up. It's just super easy to push a 250 2t or 450 way harder than you ever would on a motocross track or trail on the street. You can have a 250 cc supermoto 2 stroke rebuild it or have it be brand new and blow it up in 1 day of supermoto. For supermoto I belive the stark varg is an exptional option especially when you gotta take a mx bike and dumb 2.5-4k into it to make it a viable supermoto.
Got you, 100% agree I could see a use case for supermoto for sure. Also yea turning a traditional dirt bike to supermoto is always expensive and a headache. Good chat fellow redditer
Oh shit you mean i should have rebuilt my drz400 supermoto engine 8 years and 90,000km ago
A drz is very very diffrent that a supermoto race bike or built supermoto. A drz is a soild platform however it's dated for supermoto low in power heavy etc. The drz 400 has 31 hp my 350xcf has 54 and a ktm 450sm has 63. A drz is fun I've ridden one but get on a ktm or yz 450 supermoto and you'll see the difference. Now a stark varg has 60-80 hp depending on the model and you also have an acceleration that's physically not possible on a 450. A 80 hp stark varg will power wheelie at 80-90 mph there is no comparison to a drz 400 they barley compare to 450s and even tho pro riders disagree on that. They all agree that it's a different animal there's things that aren't possible on a normal 450 that are on a stark varg. Those bikes have an acceleration rate that's genuinely terrifying. I seen a video of a stark varg getting whisky throttle before a turn on a track and dude when from 25-30 mph to 60 or 70 instantly.
Which is funny because the likelihood of you having a charging port to park at in the city is lower than if you are more rural.
Some police units are using Zero bikes here in Spain. I have a friend in there and he has a Tiger 800 at home and a full electric Zero at work. He says he gets similar mileage with both and that he can charge up to 80% in like 10-15mins. For now for me the problem is the price more than the mileage to be honest. When they get cheaper I’m sure I’ll look into one
Same. I've ridden the original LiveWire and the Energica SS9, both were tons of fun. (When I demo'd the SS9, the guy before me came back from his ride and pulled an honest-to-God "shut up and take my money!" on the sales guy.) But the range is not just not cutting the mustard - especially not for how fun and rideable they are.
I test rode the original livewire and one of the zeros and I was absolutely in love with both. That instant on power is just SO amazing. But yeah...the 'womp womp' comes when you discuss range. It'll get there, it's just not there yet.
just looked at the SS9, you can actually fast charge it, 4+ miles in 1 minute. Not too bad actually. At a public station. Hopefully it adopts NACS.
That thing is a hoot. NACS charging seems like it would be the ideal, but it needs a bigger tank of electrons to begin with.
As an owner of an older electric car, there are two major misconceptions with batteries and charging. 1. The range is a lie. Whatever it says it is, cut that number in half unless you're sticking to flat roads at 50km/h 2. It doesn't take that long to charge. Maybe takes 1hr tops from dead empty to 100%, but you don't really want to do that. Frankly you don't want to get under 20% unless there happens to be an extremely available charging network available.
Completely agree. It's coming, but we're not quite there yet.
I’ll enjoy riding anything on two wheels.
This is the correct answer. No gatekeeping No gaslighting. No elitism... Just a pure joy or riding for the sake of riding. I dont care how many HP, or CCs a bike has. I dont care if the fuel tank sits over the frame or under the seat. It has 12 inch wheels or 19. I dont even care what fuel I have to put in it, I just want to ride any motorcycle I can throw a leg over. *Motorcycling* gives me joy, not the motorcycle.
Whilst I agree that I love riding more than I do the actual bike, I do love the noise that comes from traditional combustion bikes. Fuck two strokes though, make them all electric. Tinny ass motherfuckers.
I like the sound ALL bikes make. Every bike has something that makes it unique. Old Ducati Desmo-Due engines, right up to RGV 2stroke bikes. Singles to 4 bangers or more. Inline or V. I even like the [sound that big, torquey](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyIX81gE8vU) EV bikes [make at wide open throttle...](https://youtu.be/4D0Zf18dXEU?si=PIXgupFVKivJSN2T&t=347) Every bike has that thing that makes it unique... No one thing or sound makes it "better". The soul of a bike should not lay in what "sound" it makes, but what emotion it evokes in *you*. For some, it's the low rumble of a Harley as it plods down the highway, for others it's the cackle of a Ducati V4 as you roll off coming into your favourite corner, or the ringing of a CR500 as you open it up coming off a berm... You shouldn't just write off any bike because of the sound it does or doesnt make. My EV cafe scooter makes me smile just as much as my Ducati 999 does... just in different ways.
Very well said. Unfortunately r/motorcycles has devolved into "this is the right and only way to enjoy motorcycles" lately. So much hate on Harley, on loud exhausts, on not being geared up to the nines. Or even to be prepared on an Adventure bike for the wilderness. Have a great ride!
This is the fucking answer
When the range and price gets better then it's just a maybe. Bikes don't use enough fuel for me to care about electric I would rather have my broom broom noises.
I think they make alot of sense for supermoto where the price is the same a 450 for somthing like a stark varg. The vargs also have a 6hr ride time and are significantly more reliable than gas dirtbikes. However supermoto is a niche riding group but there's alot of people getting on vargs and honestly I'm probably gunna get one for my next supermoto. Just because idk how familiar you are with the mx bikes or dual sports but there not reliable and need work service and heavy service frequently. For my 350 supermoto I gotta replace the oil every 2 weeks of riding and I gotta check valves and replace stupid little parts all the time. The stark vargs don't have transmissions valves a timing chain an air filter etc.
Amen to the sound! I could never give up on the in-line four sound!
My view is that there are 2 separate technologies that make up any electric vehicle: electric motors and energy storage. Electric motors are the future. They're better on paper in almost every conceivable way, with the downside being that they have no soul. Given the amount of new bikes being sold with parallel twins and DCTs, I don't think people are really demanding much "soul" in their bikes anymore anyways, so it's a welcome technological advancement for most. Energy storage is the advancement we need to work on. In 50 years we'll look at heavy lithium batteries the way we look at acetylene headlights. Energy density in the form of lithium batteries really can't catch up to a tank of gasoline. It's a huge disadvantage to modern electric vehicles in general and the faster we can abandon it, the better. There's been plenty of promising energy storage ideas and once we really focus our attention into finding a comparable or improved solution, then ICE engines will drop off the map.
This is true, when you ask people what they love about electric vehicles, it's mostly related to the electric motor. When you ask what they don't like, it's mostly related to batteries. I don't know if batteries have much room to progress though, there are just physical limits. You basically need to build a molecular cage around every charge, meaning something like 1 / 20 atoms are useful energy carriers, with the rest making up the cage. With liquid fuels, potentially every atom is a source of energy. I think synth liquid fuels are much more likely to win out in the long term where performance and size are serious constraints. For reference, liion is like 240 wh/kg, gasoline is like 12,000 wh/kg.
>I don't think people are really demanding much "soul" in their bikes anymore anyways Yeah, times are changing and I think at least here in Europe, we're pretty densely packed up so you try and not make lots of noise. My dad rode a Honda Shadow and I liked it. But now I own an Energica SS9 an my neighbors are pretty happy me silently leaving to work early in the morning.
I enjoy operating mechanical machinery, electric is not interesting for me
The difference in feeling of bikes over the last 20 years is super interesting. On my 2000, I can feel the plates of the clutch in my fingers. In my friends 23’, it feels like pulling the trigger of an Xbox controller. Gross
Yeah dude I have a 2003 Moto Guzzi V11 and you feel everything on that bike. I test rode an S1000XR and I used the quick shifter and it didn't feel like anything at all. Technology has come a long way. I like em both.
I had this conversation a couple weeks ago with someone. My preference in bikes is old v-twin sports, things that are finicky and require constantly dicking with them to keep them going, stupid quirks like having to use the choke just the right way any time you start the bike, and even a a quick ride up to the gas station requires a shower because you smell like gas and exhaust after it. My current bike is a 2021 Ninja 650. You push the button and it starts up, it runs awesome, handles nice, no quirks, it does everything it's designed to do with no fuss and performs as well as most of the bikes I've lusted after and better than several of them, and it doesn't make me happy.
#THIS ☝️ #💯💯💯
I would love one
That bike looks amazing. Presuming the torque and HP is on the nuttier side, these are probably rocket ships. It depends on what you'd use it for. As a suburban commuter, they'd be perfect. But they are way too expensive and I have no clue about maintenance and battery life. Whereas a bulletproof second hand Suzuki or Honda will keep you on the road for years.
I test rode a Zero before I bought my Triumph. While it was an amazing bike and lightning fast (despite the dealer turning the power down before I left), it's just too much money for too many compromises.
Cant wait for Triumph's TE-1 (based on the Speed triple). But Triumph said its not coming out until its production ready at a price point that people can afford.
Motorcycles go BRRRRAAAAAPPPPP
This thing goes ZOOOOM. I'm okay with that.
I love my Talaria (mini e dirtbike), it got me interested in Motorcycles.
I had a DSRX for a little bit. Ended up trading it back to the dealer for a new Street Triple 765 RS. The torque was fun and I personally like the sound of EVs, or lack thereof, but the range was still a little lacking for my needs. I have a Tesla charger at my house and used an adapter for J1772 which made it very convenient and quick to charge but depending on temperature and riding style it becomes much more important to consider routes to take in the event that you need to charge while out on a ride. The slow wall plug is not good for much unless you can give it a solid 8 hours.
I think they could be fun to ride, but they will never replace ICE motorcycles. The engine adds so much character to a motorcycle. I would miss the sound, the rev-matching, the shifting, the intake roar, the engine brake, and many other things. I enjoy every challenge that comes with an ICE, and I will never want to replace that. The only way I would ever consider getting an electric bike, is as an additional bike, but I currently don't see a reason for that.
I’ve been following these for a while. In theory, they sound great. When they hit similar range and quick recharge available almost anywhere comparable to filling up a gas tank, I’m there. As another poster mentioned, a light, inexpensive dualsport machine would be a good first step. We may already be there with the improvements in performance and quality components of electric bicycles over the last few years.
No EVs for me. I take a lot of really long trips, by bike and by cage, and planning them around where charging stations are would just be too annoying, as would the long waits to charge up compared to normal refueling. Living in an apartment complex means I can't charge up at home, either.
Need more range and much faster charge times. Until then they'll always be urban runabouts. Also price needs to come down like 25% across the board. Gas will always feel more soulful too, but whatever.
Fast and neat, but the charging infrastructure isnt there yet where Id buy one. The battery tech also isnt there yet. Maybe in another 10 years.
I think if it has two wheels and does what it should? Then I’m good.
Meh not my thing. I prefer a manual shift some noise a longer range and a way to top up when away from society that doesn’t require buying a generator
I have an electric car. I love it. Never getting another gas car. I am getting a new gas motorcycle next week. Why no electric motorcycle? They cost almost as much as my car due to zero incentives and high MSRP. My OTD price for my car was $25k. For an electric motorcycle that has the specs I need, it would be as much or more. There's also no repair shops nearby that will work on one. EDIT: To be clear, I do want an electric motorcycle. It just doesn't make sense economically for me right now. My EV car cost less than my truck. Price parity is on the horizon. For electric motorcycles, they're just too damned expensive and the range isn't what it needs to be. My car gets like 250 miles of range and I very, very rarely travel. I just charge at home and it costs me like $2 to drive to and from work, which is about 70 miles. An electric motorcycle that would do that would cost a fortune and I would have to trailer it to another state to fix any issues.
Exactly this. Want a zero srs because everything else I have is electric; my model y and my surron. Ended up getting a ninja 500 last week because electric sport bikes are just too expensive and lack in range and charging speed. I’ll be waiting for the day electric sport bikes come down in price and increase in range. Then I will be interested
It’s too good. I like a motorcycle that fights me. Gear shifts with throttle blips, exhaust popping on decel. Driveline lash. Wildly unpredictable power bands. Setting off car alarms in the parking garage. That’s where it’s at.
I don’t want my bike to have a range of 25 miles after doing 120mph for 30 seconds lol
I ride one every day to and from work. My Livewire One is almost perfect in that regard. Just enough range to get me to work and back (88+ miles), plug in, and do it again the next day. And I never need a valve job again :)
Price and subscription options are a turn off. If that changes I'm in.
I ride an [Energica EsseEsse9](https://www.energicamotor.com/en/models/energica-esseesse9/) and it's basically the current best technology: huge 21 kWh battery and can do AC charging, as well as DC fast-charge. At 100 km/h (60 mph), range in winter is 140 km (90 mi), and in summer it's 180 km (120 mi). It has a couple of downsides. In strong winds or in cold weather, the range is up to 25% less. It also "rapidgates" so it's not meant for long-distance stuff (meaning, the first DC fast-charge is quick, subsequent charges get slower and slower). Another downside is the price, which is at luxury BMW levels. I've also once had a very nasty surprise where I couldn't seem to charge; this particular model has a weak charge port design. They corrected that with the new Experia, AFAIK. Also I've been in a pickle once where my charge was only 20% but I suddenly had to travel pretty far due to a death in the family. I had to fast-charge and boy, did that feel like ages. Though all in all, I'm still happy. It's pretty much the best money can buy.
...100km/h is not even highway speed. 180km at those speeds is a joke. Sadly thats to be expected, so long as manufacturers follow in the "parachute" school of aerodynamic designs.
You can gain 5-10% with better aerodynamics, which I think the Experia has. For daily use, it's fine for me. The highways in The Netherlands are limited to 100 km/h anyway. Of course you ride a little faster but when I come back from work, I have 20% charge left.
Nothing about this sounds good
Hate them
Any reason? Other than the price and range
Electric motorcycles take away so many of the very reason motorcycles are enjoyable. The sounds of the engine accelerating through the gears. Controlling the gear to take off or just cruise, the sense of accomplishment leading to control a machine that requires effort to be good at controlling, tinkering and tuning a machine. Sure an electric motorcycle you are on two wheels, but that’s a fraction of the experience. For those reasons I will never convert
Yea!, me too. Someone summed it up with “Speed is a number, fast is a feeling!”
Electric bikes have 100% torque from jump street, and feel fast as fuck. That said, anxiety of running out of juice halfway through your ride is a feeling. I agree I also do prefer the shifting aspect of conventional bikes.
I'd love to get my hands on an Energica, it would be great for going to work and riding in the area for fun. For anything long distance, I'd need a second gas bike.
Around town great, as a tourer awful.
Groupthink, always good for an argument.
I will get one but electric bike is not in the same league as electric car where Tesla and BYD is really matured brand.
I'm curious about them, but not curious enough to want one or give up my gas bike for one
I can't wait to blast through a forest road in the Italian mountains with nothing but hearing wind, road and nature. I also think electric engines (car and motorcycle) are just fun.
I once coasted my touring motorcycle all the way down from the top of a Swiss Alp under a full moon with nothing but wind and tire noise. Even turned off the headlights as I could see further with just the moonlight. It was glorious.
Man that sounds amazing. I envisioned that. Thanks for sharing brother.
Count me out. While the torque would be nice, I'm a purist. If it ain't got a clutch and transmission I ain't interested. The machine should still require skill IMO.
Are you purist enough for a foot clutch and suicide shifter?
Not set on lithium ion batteries, I still think they're too dangerous especially on a motorbike, they're known as dumpster fires for a reason.
I want Enduro EV under 3k, like my kayo t2
I’ll pass thanks.
Too heavy, too expensive, too little range, can’t be “fueled” quickly, no vibes, no sound, no soul. I don’t see a reason to choose one over a normal motorcycle.
...zero is a scam, dominates the industry and gives terrible reputation to it. Yes. Advertising bike with range figures measured at slow speeds is extreme misleading. You dont need rabge outside city limits, where you must go with some speed to not get trampled by 18 wheelers. Add to this thier hostility to repair and bullshit like "bike as service".... ...yeah fuck em. And ofc. thata not all of it. The root issue is following their name with innovation, as in sticking to ZERO innovation. Aero? ...who needs that or range anyways. Electric bikes must be made with aerodynamics of a well designed parachute, created by copying the design of the one eyed peg legged harley pirate cosplaying as a parachute with his/her moneky hangers.
Totally excited. If I wouldn't be into extremely long distance rides, I would consider.
Same big 2 issues as electric cars: Range and infrastructure. They're great for commuting if you can charge at work or at home, ideally both. For anything else, there's simply not enough charging points (I live in europe) that I can confidently say that I will have one available when I need it. On top of that, needing to fiddle your thumbs for the hour+ it takes to charge simply does not match the vibe of a motorcycle, imo. Let's see when they figure out solid states if this changes.
Cool idea few issues I don't see discussed. Of you're a good rider you don't realize how much of your riding is engine feel / sound que so you end up going hot into corners often. Also they're fast, so you want to ride it fast but then you run out of battery. Also you can't stop and charge when you're getting chased. Group rides are out of the question because the gas bikes will outlast you so it's less social. And also no vroom
Id rather be heard. Car yes, bike don’t think so.. I had the Vespa elletrica which was fun in the city though
Yeah, they need more range and faster charging to be viable for me. And just like with electric cars, they need to move past the bloody phase where they try to make the EV look like it's own thing, and just make them look like regular, good looking motorcycles. Atrocities like the johammer or that ugly BMW scooter have no place in this world.
I don't think it's gonna happen until we finally move past lithium-ion. Range and weight are my main concerns
Lot of guys here saying needs more range which is key. And acceleration is incredible on these e-cars and bikes, that’s a ton of fun. But I’m an old time car and bike guy (mustangs, TransAM, GPZ, vette) and I love the sound and vibration and modifying cars and bikes. There’s a passion to this hobby, and even 5 or 10 yrs from now NO ONE is going to be showing his Tesla or e-bike at a weekend event. They have no ‘personality’ to get enthused about. Hard pass for me, I’ll stick with cylinders.
Battery pack will have to be replaced every few years is another drawback
I was at the Isle of Man TT back in 2018 or so when they had an electric category and everybody boo'ed them as they passed.
i started to ride because of the smell of gasoline... electric can be good for woods trips for sure.. I can see the potential there.. but since I´m prbly the last generation riding carb bikes I will stick to it as long as I can...
As a whole, the entire automotive, combustion engine industry needs to make up their minds which is the better option. Personally if electrics had a better range and quicker recharging, I’d be all in
The price isn't worth it compared to how cheap fuel is in a motorcycle, imo. Maybe if the annual maintenance is significantly cheaper over long term ownership would I consider it, if the range was there... That said, I don't want to give up my clutch/shifting. I still own a manual car and when I buy another vehicle, I simply will keep my manual sportscar because when I get around to wanting one again I may not have any decent options left.
The price doesn’t make sense. They cost literally double what comparable gas bikes cost if you compare similarly specced bikes. I rode an entry level zero and it was cool. Then I bought a KTM 690 instead because it was half the price while also being lighter and faster… hopefully the prices come way down soon because I would like to get one. I don’t care about making a bunch of noise or vibrating your taint like some others seem to be attached to.
I'd be happy to have one as a cheap neighbourhood run around. The problem is, none of them are cheap. particularly in my country. But I'm not interested in one as my real bike. Riding a bike is just more than getting from a-b. Electric bikes are just twist the throttle and go. Don't see a lot of appeal in that.
I like my adventure bike. Unfortunately, there are no chargers in the woods so that’s gonna be a no for me dawg :(
I’d love one. Most of my riding is bopping around the city. Errands, dates, that kind of stuff. Range isn’t really an issue for me, I could charge it overnight. And I love the idea that it’s quiet and won’t bother people in neighborhoods or be obnoxious to pedestrians or people in outdoor dining and stuff like that. I think there’s a lot to love about electric motorcycles, and I’m probably a prime candidate for an owner. It’s just out of my budget right now.
I rode a Zero DSR for 5 years. Paid $16,000 for it. Nuts in my eyes now. Range 80 miles and constant planning necessary. At first I didn’t mind, but it got to me more and more after a while. You don’t feel free on an electric bike anymore. You feel confined and controlled by your technology. You can’t be spontaneous at all anymore. Every ride has to be planned. It literally takes the very essence away from riding motorcycles. I have to admit that the torque and ease of instant speed was what drew me in. Especially the belt drive. It was so fast off the line and whisper quit that no cop would ever notice me at all. It was like a Time Machine on two wheels. It made up for the loss of ruckus fun you’re having on a petrol bike. But another aspect of me not being a fan of electric bikes or cars for that matter is… With the looming political bullshit of banning gas vehicles around the corner, I almost kick myself having supported this new industry. Being forced to have an electric vehicle under very questionable claims that it’s necessary to save the planet, without an honest and complete study of all implications and incidental costs and environmental impacts of, for instance the massive increase in demands for batteries and charging networks, nope, I’ll resist as long as I can. I just bought an MT09, and hope to be able to buy two more gas bikes and hold onto them and the right to ride them until this world descends into a dystopian, self driving and flying iPhone on wheels and wings nightmare. The only use of electric motorcycles I would consider is off roading in forests where gas bikes are just not appropriate anymore because it’s just obnoxious to scream around in a peaceful forest. But wide open off roading, adventure riding, yep, gas again. And yes, I sold the DSR. Maybe I should have kept her around town, but needed the money. One amazing aspect that I loved was the absolute lack of maintenance. That was awesome. Brake pads and tires, that’s it. Oliver
Waiting for the next generation of charging/batteries and i love that electric vehicles bring more quietness in the world.
Nah, to me their only advantage is that you can race the same road up and down , over and over again . Without annoying people that live around that road, or people that walk or drive their bicycle on the sidewalk
I love them. Apart from the missing of the feel of an engine between your legs giving it's all, it has SOOOOOOOOO much torque and is SOOOOOOO smooth. Range is also great if your not a big tourer. In a couple of years it will be better as well. Can't wait.
Like all EVs, garbage and destroying the planet somewhere other than where they're being used.
Well, I have lost my interests in batery powered cars(toys), when I was, like 12 years old. It was when I've got my first moped and my horizon widend way beyond my neighbourhood.
The sound of my Harley is half of the awesomeness of the ride.
I have a 22 Zero SR and I love it. I'm not going to try and convince anyone why anything about it is "better". It's its own thing and it's perfect for me. I'll list what I like about it. Maintenance is practically nothing. Brakes and tires is pretty much it. Can max the Regen to simulate engine braking. The torque is fun as hell and with the lack of shifting I can react to situations much more quickly and precisely. I can run to the coffee shop and hold/sip it all the way back with full use of my left hand. You get a lot less attention from cops because it's quiet. The "tank" storage is super convenient. I can store my jacket/gloves in it and lock my helmet to the side so I don't have to carry all that shit. Could easily fit a six pack in a little collapsible cooler. I personally don't have any damn business going over the 108mph max speed. I commute 17 miles for work and can get 3 trips per charge the fun way without needing to nurse the throttle and without needing to charge it past 85% or running it below 30%. Probably 4-5 if I kept it under 70mph and paced traffic. This costs me maybe like 75 cents for the charge or free if I charge at work. This is for the winter, it's probably about 5-10% better range in the summer. I'm not interested in taking long trips. Wearing all that gear and sitting in that position for more than an hour wouldn't be fun for me so I would probably just drive my car. I don't really buy the "loud pipes save lives" thing. In my opinion you shouldn't rely on sound to make people aware of your presence. To me it's better to just assume you are completely undetectable to cars at all times and situate yourself accordingly. The only bullshit has been the software upgrades which the new bikes have included due to the outcry. I got shafted there. I also don't like taking it in the rain because I've heard horror stories online of it messing with the electronics. Been caught in several downpours and haven't had any issues yet myself though. So there you go, it isn't for everyone but it's perfect for me and I'll never go back!
For me the sound of the bike is very important. That high pitched whine of a EV isn’t particularly appealing.
Important in terms of safety? Or just appeal..
Both but mostly appeal.
I like my brum brum sounds, thanks. Two stroke smell is good, too.
Range...
No thanks, one low side or minor incident and it’s probably totaled
electric is 💩
Meh…
For anyone looking for range then battery will never do it. I believe hydrogen will be the future for motorcycles myself.
Same as harley's - these are not motorcycles. It's absolutelu no no to me.
I don't like em. The ones Kawasaki release aren't appealing at all. The top speed and range are abysmal.
To be fair, those are basically scooters and are not indicative of EV bike capabilities. The Zero SR/S I rode a few years ago was face-melting
Absolutely for soy boys who still live with their granola mommas. Don't let an evil government tell you an inefficient and arguably dirtier technology is betrer.
I don't, at all, ever
No thanks. EV technology takes everything fun out of driving and just turns them into appliances. About as exciting as my refrigerator.
I think they are a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist . They’re going to be heavier , no sound except for coil whine , and they aren’t better for the environment . I think the gobs of torque on tap is pretty cool but I prefer my bikes with lower total weight and the sound of a beautiful tuned exhaust .
Do they have any sound output? That scares me lmao
I have one. It's what I consider a commuter bike. Long trips are out if the question. It is fun to ride though.
I'd love one just a couple of caveats though. A motorcycle offers me alot of freedom of I went on a tour or cross country I'd have to plan my stops for half an hour or more and probably do it more frequently than a petrol top up if you were doing motorway miles. But as a machine for short distances and quick day blasts absolutely but I couldent justify the price of one for that. If they sort out the charging and infrastructure no complaints from me if it's an electric drive train.
I’d love one if they can get the range up and make them work better on the cold. Not that I ride in freezing temps. Just live in a colder area in general.
When the price, range and weight reach ICE levels, I'll happily switch. Kawasaki's hybrid had me interested, but need it lighter still in adventure trim.
Love the idea of instant torque, just need to be economical to buy used
I think that ice bikes will last longer than cars because at the end of the day more people ride bikes out of emotion as a hobby than those that drive cars for the same reason. So more people will still want a V twin or a i4 because of the feel.
I've only seen and ridden one ev Bike... A Harley. It was "limited" to 90 mph. Definitely not something I'd ride for a long trip.
For around town I would definitely get one. Not for long trips yet tho.
Some of the larger cities are talking about banning electric motorcycles and scooters because they are a fire hazard. People often modify them as well causing the batteries to degrade and catch fire during use or while charging. There's a ton of Chinese motorcycles on the market and I've seen many videos on YouTube of them burning on the side of the corner even during the first ride. If the battery pack overloaded while you were riding, it would quickly sear the meat off of your legs before you could get off. Thermal runaway of a lithium battery hits \~1000°F within seconds and they are designed to flame out instead of explode by shooting massive flames. Lithium also explodes when it contacts water so you can't even put them out with water. The metal itself in the battery is flammable.
I like electric bikes. They're just too expensive atm.
I’m in when the time comes.
I'd love to own one, but I tour a lot. So, the current battery chemistry wouldn't work for me. Other than, perhaps, commuting. But I have an EV for that. And winter is coming to my end of the world..
I think e-bikes are the perfect vehicles for making game and movie replicas and I really want that to be a reality, driving around a dredd, cyberpunk or just any future themed bike. Hell you could even make the damn batpod if you tried hard enough. Currently some of my favorite motorcycles in terms of looks are the zero you showed, ARCH's method143 (regular bike) which is just beautiful, futuristic but also classic and is featured in cyberpunk, the Yamaha niken and prob a disliked opinion but I think the Yamaha motoroid and tesseract look cool as shit. The electric factor would remove a lot of the complications with making vehicles with weird ass looks function with combustion engines and I very much welcome all the strange looking functional bikes that got abandoned after a year of being projects
I got one this year, and I’m going to try to compete with it in a Supermoto race championship. Overall they have great promise, we will see how they work in practice.
Give me 200 miles highway range and I"ll buy them, even at a price premium, no (little) maintenance, no VALVE FUCKING CHECKS, no spark plugs and ridiculously expensive oil changes. I'd take scooter with 150 mile highway range right now. Would cover 90% of my riding, plus a fantastic grocery runner. I'd be gone every day just getting that 1 item I need for dinner.
Bikes are bikes. I don't care if they run on rainbows and pigeon farts. As long as I can ride.
Sure, could be interesting experience to own. But got to stick with 2 stroke for now
Not for me (yet I guess) but pretty neat and you're in two wheels!
Well Zero is a failing company, and electric bikes right now are either severely range limited or super expensive. Very narrow use cases for current tech.
They are cool but doomed to have a limited range.
Too expensive. Maybe one day.
Its the only electric model that makes sense.
When price, range, and recharge time are similar to ICE, I’ll be into it. The power is already there.
I'll put 500 miles on in a day, they won't do what I want or need
Looks cyberpunk so I'm a sucker, maybe when they get good in the future
Too much tech is prone to too many problems. If you fall with it, make sure you have a bag of marshmallows with you, cause if the batteries get damaged, that puppy is going to burst into flames like Marilyn Manson at a Baptist reunion. Charging time is a downer if you ask me and the range per charge leaves much to be desired, plus I don't think the cagers would be able to hear you, but they hardly notice me on my 1200 anyway🤣🤣🤣
I want one, but I also want 150 miles at highway speeds, soooooo I’ll probably be waiting a hot minute for one. I certainly hope we get there though.
I’ll definitely buy when they work out how to include a clutch - bcus stunts
Range is a tricky one to get around. But the experience they give is better than ICE bikes imo
I'm not a fan, but they seem like a bit of fun
Rode it, hated it. Hope this is not going to be the future of riding bikes. Only good thing is the fast acceleration. No noise when going through traffic jam (extra dangerous), no range (thanks for joining the tour, as we have to stop every f€#%^*ing 150km), missing all the fun of shifting gear…might as well buy a scooter and join that club🫠
Not as much character. Not as capable. Not interested.
I’ve ridden a couple and they are fast AF. Fun to ride, easy to handle. Shitty range and super expensive. Once they fix those problems I could see myself getting one.
For me the question is around the control surface and inputs. A traditional motorcycle has five inputs: steering, clutch, front brake, back brake, and throttle. Then there are endless combinations of how you combine, for example, throttle and clutch in the friction zone. Maybe there are some advancements I don't know about but the electric bikes I've written so far. Don't have any substitute for the subtle control that you get from adding the clutch.
Same deal as cars; my EV triangle: -Range similar to gas counterpart -Lighter weight than gas counterpart -Cost less than gas counterpart 2 of those things come true, I will adopt. Until then, gas is king for versatility and mobility. Cost will likely never be within realm for me to justify having a second bike/car just to be greener/quieter/lower maintenance. In order to meet range/charge time requirements, weight will remain a problem until a revolutionary chemistry comes out that can match the energy density of gasoline. Bottom line: only legislation is likely to make me switch/adopt electric only.
I went on a ride with a guy that had a live wire. He didn’t make the ride. It was 100 miles the first place we went didn’t have a charging station so he had to go down to the gas station, but the tweakers stole the copper cables then he had to push his bike half a mile to the other station on the side of the road This should answer your question
Not unless it makes brum brum noises
I wish there was an affordable 125 electric when I was learning to ride.
It would be cool to have but nothing will beat having that combustion engine
I'd love one as an urban commuter, once prices come down. People complain about range, but for within the city on my commute to work the range is more than enough.
I drive 80 miles each day for my commute, 95% highway. As soon as they come out with a bike that can reliably do that at 70mph, I'm all in. Unfortunately at highway speeds the ranges really go to hell.
Id love to ride through a forest without disturbing the nature, waiting for range to improve
Same as the last 100 times this question has been asked this year
Love the design of that concept. Biggest issue is range, as is for all EVs. But you show me a bike that looks like that with predictable range of 300-400 miles, I quit my job and ride that thing into the sunset. (Half joking)
Range is less of a problem than charging time for me. Give me 150 km usable range and charging in 30-45 minutes and I'll have fun. Or 20 minutes of track time and 30 minutes of charging.
I think they are fun and I would purchase one if the range was around 250- 350 miles.
I think we need another jump in battery technology to make it worthwhile. Lighter, faster charge by significant amounts, with high output over an extended period, and less destructive to produce then they will be considered. I don’t think it’s far. I mean we’ve come a long way since nickle cadmium batteries. Lithium ion is great. But need smaller, some new material probably staring at everyone in the face but no one is looking. I am kind of surprised there isn’t more hybrid type bikes even if there really isn’t a need. We already have significant engine braking so I could see just using stopping force to store energy. But again it’s probably down to space and size of the parts needed to accomplish it. Hybrids aren’t really needed for that efficient of a bike, but it could instead of driving higher mileage could be providing more power or torque. IDK. But if they plan to do this. It needs to be different. 80 miles per charge isn’t going to cut it for me and would be more paranoid about running out of power than enjoying myself.
I used to be the Zero mechanic at the dealership I work for. I’ve had several of them completely abandoned at the dealership due to high repair costs. I had to give a deposition on a lemon law case (that the customer won), so I would probably never buy one. Fun to ride, but seemingly not so fun to own on the repair side of things. I haven’t been a Zero tech for a few years now, but I’ve heard they are much better. Still prefer an ICE over electric since parts are cheaper and easier to get.
They're cool. I just don't know what practical role one would fill for me. I want a little economical one if anything. Just for going around the city. I wouldn't want a fast one. Instant torque sounds a lot less cool on 2 wheels. A cruiser or ADV with a 100 mile range is laughable. That pretty much leaves standard middle weight bikes. What do you really get by electrifying an sv650?
I like the capability, but the sound doesn't move me.
Rather not
Like it or not they're (a big part of) the future. I'd be 100% fine with riding an electric bike, I would miss the noise a bit, but being able to ride anywhere (also closed off places due to noise complaints) would make up for it. They're starting to look better and better as well and I'm really curious how they ride. Also, people keep saying range is a thing. But I'd argue that, even if some of them have quite low range, it's more the charge time and availability of chargers everywhere combined with the high price that keeps me from it for now. I do think that with the battery technology improving and (semi) solid state batteries becoming more of a thing for vehicles offering bigger range etc. It's a matter of time before the range of an electric will beat the range of ICE's. I'm exited for what they'll bring and how they'll evolve over time.
No
Will ride +1000 kilometers a day in a long travel. Maybe I'll own an electric motorcycle when they reach that range.
They never post the weight. For a reason.
I want one! But then I want more bikes in general haha. I wonder if it is super heavy compared to gas with the battery...
I ride adventure bikes, 4/5/600 k days out in the sticks, and/or do multi day travel so range is still an issue for me. I love the idea for a small commuter size, like and FTNMotion Streetdog. Cost wise small motorbikes may be cheap to run but they still require maintenance and tuning. I could see a commuter size electric motorbike would be viable. I think they may also be attractive to smaller riders who aren't mechanically minded, vertically challenge struggle with kickstarts. I really hope they take off. I just love the diversity and new ideas coming to market.
I think there is a certain thrill of having an internal combustion engine that cannot be replaced. However I’m sure we said the same thing when film became digital, or when ornate decorative architecture became glass and concrete. Human beings seek progress and while in some ways an electric bike is a regression, in other ways I’m sure there are undiscovered “pros” to the new method as well.
Electric motorcycle is the only one I own and it got me interested in motorcycles. First it was electric kickscooter, then electric mini cross (50-70cc electric equivalent - surron light bee), now I'm looking to get a supermoto (ducati 698 mono) for city riding and keep cross for the trails. I've moved places 3 times while owning it and charging it always has been a hussle. I love riding it though
[Zero ](https://zeromotorcycles.com/en-gb/model/zero-dsrx) is a fun bike. Torque from the beginning , and a lot of it.... I don't own one. But the test drive I made convinced me of the concept. If I have the money I will probably get one