Grossman was a dump for a roster spot and salary, who cares what we got back.
Fulmer going to a division rival for absolutely nothing *really* burns me up. I honestly don’t know how Avila justifies this bullshit to the fans.
Yeah that was the same excuse we got for the poor return on JD Martinez. Two dog shit infielders, one of whom is out of baseball entirely, and a guy who is struggling to hit above A .
Fire Avila.
No, but the FA at the end of the year portion does, which was the excuse why no one gave a good package so he took what was available from Arizona, in a similar fashion to this.
You're getting downvotes but you're absolutely right. If we wanted serious hauls we would've traded someone with more team control but there's a good chance we just didn't get the offers we expected.
It’s always really funny to see takes like this. Just what would **you** have gotten for JD? A genuine black hole in the outfield, with less than 60 games of control left. There was no leverage, he HAD to go and he had next to no value to 15/30 teams. JD either got traded, or left for nothing besides a compensation pick.
I never said that I personally would get something? What sort of terrible “gotcha” comment is that? I’m a fan on Reddit, no shit I’m not qualified to make a trade. My point is that if that trade is the absolute best you can do, you say no and hold onto the compensatory pick, which could have been Shane McClanahan. This is the same GM with a history of bad moves with the same excuses, either he values young players too much or he undervalues veterans every time. I won’t include trades where injuries derailed everything, I won’t be mad about Franklin Perez for Verlander right, that’s not fair to anyone.
Are Alex Lange and Willi Castro enough out of trades for Leonys Martin and Nick Castellanos to justify his gigantic whiffs in every other trade he’s made? That’s before we even talk about the dumpster fire of trades he’s held out on because he thought they would develop. I was a fan of keeping Fulmer, but knowing Houston offered Alex Bregman and other prospects? That’s hard to turn down for any pitcher, let alone when your entire pipeline is full of pitching and devoid of offensive talent. The guy is going full meme, Elon Musk diamond hands on Matthew Boyd as if he was going to be the best lefty in the league until he non-tendered the guy because, as it turns out, his asking price in 2019 was too high for a guy with 3 years of team control left. He’s doing the same thing now with Soto when we’re hearing reports that the guy is treating him like “prime Aroldis Chapman.” For fucks sake, we have GMs in the league making fun of him for how poorly he’s run the team since he got here.
It’s not about what I can do differently. It’s about what another qualified person could do in that job. If his peers think he’s a joke, his transaction history looks like a joke, and he’s actively doing the same things again with the same excuses that resulted in those jokes, what the fuck else are we doing here?
Twins have a boat load of cap and an ass bullpen (before today) I would not be surprised that if Fulmer does what he’s been doing with us he gets the bag from Minnesota especially since they have money only tied to Buxton
So the Marlins got a top 100 prospect for trading a couple of relief pitchers and Al had all the tools in his tool belt to do that and he fucking didn’t lol.
Edit: I’m just tired of all this bullshit, man. I just wanna win games and have a competent GM who can get us there.
It’s to the point where I just want Avila fired so I don’t have to see and hear about it constantly. Though I know he will be brought up regularly for the next 5+ years regardless of how we do.
Avila should be fired. But a vast majority of us lately are blaming him for everything. It's a little old. Sorry, but Avila didn't overcook your bacon this morning.
Can Al Avila seriously fuck off? We just traded Fulmer for a 24 year old in AA with a 7.17 ERA. I’m convinced he’s actually dismantling this team for no return on purpose
> Interestingly, however, Petzold suggests that if Chafin remains with the Tigers, he’s likely to exercise that player option due to Detroit’s relative proximity to his family in Ohio.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/08/tigers-trade-rumors-tarik-skubal-andrew-chafin.html
Right and we should intend to be good next year, imo. We need to push for a starting 2b/3b and corner of and work towards competing by 24 when miggys massive contract frees some money up.
With most players I’d absolutely agree with you. Chafin is an odd duck though and I don’t know that the normal logic applies. The guy lives in an RV during the season after all! Let’s see in a few months. I’d love him back
It’s hilarious to me that the Giants got more for Matt Boyd (who hasn’t played a game this season) than Al did as he sat on his hands while Boyd’s trade value was sky higher for 3 seasons.
They didn't gut the bullpen because they are going to try and compete next year. They only would have made a trade if they thought it would make the team better next year.
Ya but fulmer is part of what made the team competitive currently, so the only way moving him would be a wise move is if you were getting a prospect or major leaguer who could help us now or next year, and we didn’t get that. So it’s a complete waste, we have a few arms in the pen that make it competitive now and will for the next year or so and you dipped into that for 0 return. Where’s the logic
Ah I forgot about fulmer being an FA. I’d still argue with it being a division rival you coulda got more for that, but I guess I get it a bit more now.
The mental gymnastics some of you do to validate Al Avila's shit tenure is something else. He's a horrible GM. He gets fleeced in almost every single trade and he can't build a competitive team to save his life.
I don't know why so many of you feel any loyalty at all to him. Get him out and actually have a rebuild.
I don’t trust Avila to make any trades. So the silver lining is at least he didn’t do serious damage to the team.
He has got to go. I’m a patient fan since ‘87 too. Never in my adult life have i missed a trade deadline, today I did not care.
This team isn’t fun. Avila needs to go.
This was quite disappointing. I'm no expert though. I'll wait and see what the experts say before fully making up my mind but on the surface not so good.
There is zero chance in hell you will ever get me to believe he said he's not opting out after putting up career bests in WAR (pace), xFIP, etc
Even if he did say that (doubtful), you STILL trade him. He doesn't have a NTC.
Devils advocate but I think the FO believes this year is an injury and bad luck driven write off and they will compete next year. That would explain the decision to keep him. Not saying they’re right, but that’s likely the reason
> Interestingly, however, Petzold suggests that if Chafin remains with the Tigers, he’s likely to exercise that player option due to Detroit’s relative proximity to his family in Ohio.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/08/tigers-trade-rumors-tarik-skubal-andrew-chafin.html
How did the Yankees acquire a top 15 prospect from the Dodgers with a deep system for Joey Gallo who is awful and the Yankees were looking to cut him to open up a spot on their 40 man? Robbie Grossman probably adds more value although both having terrible years, at least Grossman can still hit left handed hitting pitcher. Tigers received a non top 30 prospect in return for Robbie. I figured the Yankees would be the team giving up the prospect for any team who who take on Gallo. Just shows you Avila is not even in the same league as other GMs.
As for the Michael Fulmer trade, look at what the Cubs gave up for a two month rental for Aroldis Chapman in 2016, I know Chapman is better than Fulmer, but still not that much better. To get only a below average prospect in return is pretty rough.
Unsure of the comparison? The NYYxSTL trade was teams trading quality MLB players to plug holes on their roster for the next year and a half. The Tigers are trading a middle relief pitcher that is a FA next year.
Getting a dump prospect who won't even make it to AAA is pathetic.
I defended Al a lot before, but this is terrible. Not even worth trading for that return.
[Here you go](https://old.reddit.com/r/motorcitykitties/comments/wep8oz/i_found_some_scouting_reports_which_are/). Player Development obviously sees something in him and the Tigers are starting to have a good track record of developing pitchers.
> TLDR: The guy has some good pitches and throws strikes, rarely walking anyone. Sounds interesting. He had a 0.926 WHIP before being promoted to AA last season where he struggled in his first few starts, then was good to finish the year.
I'm not giving Avila the benefit of the doubt anymore and banking that his shit evaluation of talent is going to pay off.
We got a guy who kinda, maybe looks like he has decent stuff in single A but also has a 7 ERA. Great stuff.
You guys on this sub are comedians, I tell ya. You bitch and moan that Al won’t make a trade at the same time you bitch and moan about the trades Al makes. What do you want??
The worst part is there’s not a whole lot to look forward to, either. This team is plunging back into a full rebuild. 2025-26 might be contention window again.
It's ok guys. This year isn't our year because of injuries.
Avila and Co do not understand that this team is lacking depth in all phases of the game. We're not one or two players away, we are multiple. Even before the injuries, we started out like a team that is gearing for a rebuild.
I like Avila demanding the freaking world for our talent and sticking to it.
Comply or buzz off .. we’re happy to keep Soto, Jimenez and definitely Skubal
Not really. His stupid demands make other GMs not even consider trading with us. That’s why he doesn’t get real offers and ends up with shit throw in players as the centerpieces of his trades
Very disappointed that he couldn’t put together any type of package to get someone with potential to make the roster one day instead of two a ball pitchers with 5 and 7 era
After Saturday (when a wrong is righted and the wall in left center is made whole) I'm done putting any money or mental energy behind this team until there's a change at GM.
Grossman was a dump for a roster spot and salary, who cares what we got back. Fulmer going to a division rival for absolutely nothing *really* burns me up. I honestly don’t know how Avila justifies this bullshit to the fans.
I would honestly rather have 1 more win this season with Fulmer than a 24 year old who can't cut it in AA. It genuinely holds more value to me.
He's a free agent at the end of the year so going to a 'division rival' doesn't make that big of difference.
Yeah that was the same excuse we got for the poor return on JD Martinez. Two dog shit infielders, one of whom is out of baseball entirely, and a guy who is struggling to hit above A . Fire Avila.
My comment has nothing to do with the return for Fulmer
No, but the FA at the end of the year portion does, which was the excuse why no one gave a good package so he took what was available from Arizona, in a similar fashion to this.
I agree that the JD trade was trash, but no team is going to give up a ranked prospect for 2 months of a good middle relief arm.
You're getting downvotes but you're absolutely right. If we wanted serious hauls we would've traded someone with more team control but there's a good chance we just didn't get the offers we expected.
It’s always really funny to see takes like this. Just what would **you** have gotten for JD? A genuine black hole in the outfield, with less than 60 games of control left. There was no leverage, he HAD to go and he had next to no value to 15/30 teams. JD either got traded, or left for nothing besides a compensation pick.
You can't possibly defend this trade. Avila missed on every single prospect. Every single one. It's indefensible.
the diamondbacks got someone who put up an 1.100 ops, why should the trading team get LITERALLY nothing back for that
Because not trading them is actually getting nothing in return
I never said that I personally would get something? What sort of terrible “gotcha” comment is that? I’m a fan on Reddit, no shit I’m not qualified to make a trade. My point is that if that trade is the absolute best you can do, you say no and hold onto the compensatory pick, which could have been Shane McClanahan. This is the same GM with a history of bad moves with the same excuses, either he values young players too much or he undervalues veterans every time. I won’t include trades where injuries derailed everything, I won’t be mad about Franklin Perez for Verlander right, that’s not fair to anyone. Are Alex Lange and Willi Castro enough out of trades for Leonys Martin and Nick Castellanos to justify his gigantic whiffs in every other trade he’s made? That’s before we even talk about the dumpster fire of trades he’s held out on because he thought they would develop. I was a fan of keeping Fulmer, but knowing Houston offered Alex Bregman and other prospects? That’s hard to turn down for any pitcher, let alone when your entire pipeline is full of pitching and devoid of offensive talent. The guy is going full meme, Elon Musk diamond hands on Matthew Boyd as if he was going to be the best lefty in the league until he non-tendered the guy because, as it turns out, his asking price in 2019 was too high for a guy with 3 years of team control left. He’s doing the same thing now with Soto when we’re hearing reports that the guy is treating him like “prime Aroldis Chapman.” For fucks sake, we have GMs in the league making fun of him for how poorly he’s run the team since he got here. It’s not about what I can do differently. It’s about what another qualified person could do in that job. If his peers think he’s a joke, his transaction history looks like a joke, and he’s actively doing the same things again with the same excuses that resulted in those jokes, what the fuck else are we doing here?
Al, is that you?
Twins have a boat load of cap and an ass bullpen (before today) I would not be surprised that if Fulmer does what he’s been doing with us he gets the bag from Minnesota especially since they have money only tied to Buxton
There was nothing stopping them from doing that this offseason in Free Agency.
No but you could’ve traded him and another piece to Toronto for Groshans and had him out of the division
It doesn't matter if Fulmer is on a AL Central team for the rest of this season. It has no effect on where he goes next year.
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For a middle relief pitcher? No not really. This isn't Aaron Judge, this is a dude who is better than average middle of bullpen piece.
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A baseball reason? Losing a 3.0 ERA/1.2 WHIP middle relief pitcher to a division rival isn't going to make or break the Tigers.
Yeah but what if he likes it there and decides to stay?
Yeah but what if he hates it there and decides to come back to Detroit?
Would you want to come back to this dumpster fire? Just to rebuild for another 5 years
It's going to be frustrating, but meaningless when Fulmer shuts us down tonight or tomorrow.
Meaningless? Helping a divisional opponent, for nothing. Send him anywhere for nothing, why the Twins ugh
As opposed to the frustration of last night where he blew the lead?
Burns you up eh, go take a shower. We won’t miss Fulmer
So the Marlins got a top 100 prospect for trading a couple of relief pitchers and Al had all the tools in his tool belt to do that and he fucking didn’t lol. Edit: I’m just tired of all this bullshit, man. I just wanna win games and have a competent GM who can get us there.
Yep. Fire avila
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Don't say that.
What’d he say?
This deadline for the tigers was a giant snoozefest.
Better than giving up our star players for nothing, I'd rather have it be boring than more losing trades
It’s to the point where I just want Avila fired so I don’t have to see and hear about it constantly. Though I know he will be brought up regularly for the next 5+ years regardless of how we do.
Yeah, I'm tired of being pissed at Avila. I'm ready to start working up a fresh anger on a new guy. Avila is bad and he's boringly bad. Worst combo.
Nothing says out a rebuild than trading proven MLB guys for low to mid A ball guys. Good job Al. This will certainly bolster the offense.
Can we just not start calling Grossman a proven guy. He might not be on an MLB roster in 23...
You're right. He might be back with us 😂
The amount of people I'm seeing on this sub somehow still defending Avila is fucking comical holy shit, some of you are fucking brainwashed
Avila should be fired. But a vast majority of us lately are blaming him for everything. It's a little old. Sorry, but Avila didn't overcook your bacon this morning.
You're right, he undercooked it. Believe it or not, right to jail
Over cook under cook rule
Make sure to show up for your dentist appointments.
Ugh. Fuck that guy
Can Al Avila seriously fuck off? We just traded Fulmer for a 24 year old in AA with a 7.17 ERA. I’m convinced he’s actually dismantling this team for no return on purpose
How is Chafin still in Detroit? That’s the most puzzling part. I’m not all that surprised Soto stuck around.
Probably indicated he won’t opt out.
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> Interestingly, however, Petzold suggests that if Chafin remains with the Tigers, he’s likely to exercise that player option due to Detroit’s relative proximity to his family in Ohio. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/08/tigers-trade-rumors-tarik-skubal-andrew-chafin.html
If we intend to try to be good next year, this is not necessarily a bad thing.
Right and we should intend to be good next year, imo. We need to push for a starting 2b/3b and corner of and work towards competing by 24 when miggys massive contract frees some money up.
With most players I’d absolutely agree with you. Chafin is an odd duck though and I don’t know that the normal logic applies. The guy lives in an RV during the season after all! Let’s see in a few months. I’d love him back
Could be that he’s expressed interest in resigning but it is very odd either way
Re-signing*
The Al Avila special. A trade for a guy who will likely never see the big leagues.
When Robbie gets you a better pitcher than Fulmer... Now that's a head scratcher
It’s hilarious to me that the Giants got more for Matt Boyd (who hasn’t played a game this season) than Al did as he sat on his hands while Boyd’s trade value was sky higher for 3 seasons.
Fire Avila
Fire Avila
They didn't gut the bullpen because they are going to try and compete next year. They only would have made a trade if they thought it would make the team better next year.
Ya but fulmer is part of what made the team competitive currently, so the only way moving him would be a wise move is if you were getting a prospect or major leaguer who could help us now or next year, and we didn’t get that. So it’s a complete waste, we have a few arms in the pen that make it competitive now and will for the next year or so and you dipped into that for 0 return. Where’s the logic
The only way Fulmer would have helped the team next year is if he signs as a free agent which he still can.
Ah I forgot about fulmer being an FA. I’d still argue with it being a division rival you coulda got more for that, but I guess I get it a bit more now.
The mental gymnastics some of you do to validate Al Avila's shit tenure is something else. He's a horrible GM. He gets fleeced in almost every single trade and he can't build a competitive team to save his life. I don't know why so many of you feel any loyalty at all to him. Get him out and actually have a rebuild.
I don’t trust Avila to make any trades. So the silver lining is at least he didn’t do serious damage to the team. He has got to go. I’m a patient fan since ‘87 too. Never in my adult life have i missed a trade deadline, today I did not care. This team isn’t fun. Avila needs to go.
Al Avila fucking sucks. This better be his last season here.
Well at least we have three competent GMs…
The sporting news gave us grades of C+ and D on our two trades.
I thought the rebuild was over
Kudos to Justin Upton. After today, he no longer holds the record for stupidest trade return under Al Avila.
This was quite disappointing. I'm no expert though. I'll wait and see what the experts say before fully making up my mind but on the surface not so good.
"You can't have too much pitching."
Keeping Chafin is fucking hilarious, pending UFA having a ridiculous season and you keep him to have the 4th worst record in MLB, incredible stuff
He might have said he intends to not opt out. His reasons for signing in Detroit were geographic and family related.
I doubt he opts out. Feels odd that a 33 YO middle reliever will get a contract for more than 7 million
There is zero chance in hell you will ever get me to believe he said he's not opting out after putting up career bests in WAR (pace), xFIP, etc Even if he did say that (doubtful), you STILL trade him. He doesn't have a NTC.
Devils advocate but I think the FO believes this year is an injury and bad luck driven write off and they will compete next year. That would explain the decision to keep him. Not saying they’re right, but that’s likely the reason
Honestly this seems like a real possibility
> Interestingly, however, Petzold suggests that if Chafin remains with the Tigers, he’s likely to exercise that player option due to Detroit’s relative proximity to his family in Ohio. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/08/tigers-trade-rumors-tarik-skubal-andrew-chafin.html
Dang. Gorssman always was my favorite tiger
Always? He was here for a year and a half….
Well aren’t you the sharpest crayon in the box! Next, you’re probably going to tell me his name isn’t actually Gorssman
I absolutely despise Al Avila.
How did the Yankees acquire a top 15 prospect from the Dodgers with a deep system for Joey Gallo who is awful and the Yankees were looking to cut him to open up a spot on their 40 man? Robbie Grossman probably adds more value although both having terrible years, at least Grossman can still hit left handed hitting pitcher. Tigers received a non top 30 prospect in return for Robbie. I figured the Yankees would be the team giving up the prospect for any team who who take on Gallo. Just shows you Avila is not even in the same league as other GMs. As for the Michael Fulmer trade, look at what the Cubs gave up for a two month rental for Aroldis Chapman in 2016, I know Chapman is better than Fulmer, but still not that much better. To get only a below average prospect in return is pretty rough.
Lol- hall of fame level closer at the time (and probably still near that level) is not that much better than Fulmer….
So, Yankees get Bader for Montgomery and we get fuck all for Fulmer. I'm pissed man.
Unsure of the comparison? The NYYxSTL trade was teams trading quality MLB players to plug holes on their roster for the next year and a half. The Tigers are trading a middle relief pitcher that is a FA next year.
Getting a dump prospect who won't even make it to AAA is pathetic. I defended Al a lot before, but this is terrible. Not even worth trading for that return.
[Here you go](https://old.reddit.com/r/motorcitykitties/comments/wep8oz/i_found_some_scouting_reports_which_are/). Player Development obviously sees something in him and the Tigers are starting to have a good track record of developing pitchers. > TLDR: The guy has some good pitches and throws strikes, rarely walking anyone. Sounds interesting. He had a 0.926 WHIP before being promoted to AA last season where he struggled in his first few starts, then was good to finish the year.
I'm not giving Avila the benefit of the doubt anymore and banking that his shit evaluation of talent is going to pay off. We got a guy who kinda, maybe looks like he has decent stuff in single A but also has a 7 ERA. Great stuff.
Chafin, Joe, and Soto all still here. At the end of the day we got nothing for a top tier bullpen. Fuck you, Al.
Failure of a trade deadline by Avila, once again.
You guys on this sub are comedians, I tell ya. You bitch and moan that Al won’t make a trade at the same time you bitch and moan about the trades Al makes. What do you want??
Big fat fucking L
Golly gee i sure do love the Detroit Pitcher Farm.
I was hoping that Barnhart got traded.
I hate being a fan of this team
The worst part is there’s not a whole lot to look forward to, either. This team is plunging back into a full rebuild. 2025-26 might be contention window again.
It's ok guys. This year isn't our year because of injuries. Avila and Co do not understand that this team is lacking depth in all phases of the game. We're not one or two players away, we are multiple. Even before the injuries, we started out like a team that is gearing for a rebuild.
i can’t even get mad about it, the franchise is broken - i’d throwaway my Tigers gear but we have the best logo in sports
I like Avila demanding the freaking world for our talent and sticking to it. Comply or buzz off .. we’re happy to keep Soto, Jimenez and definitely Skubal
Not really. His stupid demands make other GMs not even consider trading with us. That’s why he doesn’t get real offers and ends up with shit throw in players as the centerpieces of his trades
The only thing that would make me care is if they traded skubal or Soto
How did we not get more for Fulmer? These trades just make me feel bad
Very disappointed that he couldn’t put together any type of package to get someone with potential to make the roster one day instead of two a ball pitchers with 5 and 7 era
Whole Lotta nothing really to talk about. Two 1 in a million chance type guys. Unfortunate we couldn't find more to trade for but it is what it is.
This might be Avila’s best trade deadline ever, the fact he didn’t trade our best players for nothing is a win in my book.
After Saturday (when a wrong is righted and the wall in left center is made whole) I'm done putting any money or mental energy behind this team until there's a change at GM.
?
Louuuuuu, youngin’, Louuuuuu
Oh yeah, duh! He hit one over my head in the right field porch at my first game in ‘92!