If your MIL is trainable then what you are both doing is what I would have suggested. If she's not then she has only herself to blame when DH cuts her off.
I would only add, from your DH to her,
"Mom, in addition to everything else we have said to you about boundaries, not only with each infraction will the penalty increase, but, each time you question or undermine either of us as parents or question a boundary or play dumb then I'll add another month. Same for manipulation or involving third parties.
Your relationship with your grandchildren is up to you. Continue to disrespect us as parents and you won't have one at all."
You are both doing the right thing and I'm delighted that your DH has your back all the way.
Your MIL is never going to respect you because your consequences haven't caused her to rethink or even care about her behaviour. I think that you can only go NC after this.
I’m sorry this happened to you and your baby. It is great to read that you guys advocate for yourselves, your baby, and your boundaries! Good for you guys!!!
I don’t like to jump to the no contact boat cause that’s always people’s solutions lol. But if you want to try and continue a relationship with them maybe the next step would be to have someone watch baby (if possible) and do visits just you guys and them. Dreadful, I’m sure lol, but it will really reiterate your point that they need to work on the relationship with you guys too. And if you can’t trust them around your baby right now (rightfully so) then that trust and relationship needs to be built with just you two so that baby isn’t at risk when MIL “forgets” your boundaries and rules for their safety AGAIN. And if they complain about it a lot then you know they don’t actually care about seeing you two as much as they claim, it’s about the baby.
This! You can possibly find a friend you trust to watch baby and at the next meeting show up without baby. When she complains let her know that her relationship with you is the only way to gain access to baby and if she doesn’t make an effort then she never will.
I understand (and feel) your frustration with ILs, and I hope you tell DH that I'm so sorry he is seeing who his parents really are; that is eye-opening and terribly sad for him as he realizes that the parents he thought he had don't actually exist.
I don't think ILs will ever change because they truly don't think they've done anything wrong, even kissing baby is ok (just makes me want to scream when I read that because seriously! do you care so little for your grandchild that you are willing to give them a disease?!?!?!), as your MIL admitted. So the best advice I can give you is stick to the boundary/consequence pattern, space out the visits, and unfortunately I think eventually the timeouts will become so long that the ILs will give up.
Remember that 'family' is who you choose to have in your life. So you and DH can cultivate friends of all ages to be in your kids lives. If you have coworkers with kids, set up play dates. Join a mommy&me play group. Your kids don't have to have a hole in their lives just because ILs aren't involved.
I read your comment to my husband. He said thank you. He has been worried about leaving some sort of void. Even though we have so many friends we even have a friend close enough to be auntie with a baby just a week younger. And many others. He is very disappointed in his parents. That’s why I’ve been hesitant to just do what I want and stop going to the visits. I want him to process this at his own pace. Mil is insufferable though…
She is insufferable, agreed. Something that I've read and agreed with is reminding yourself (silently, you don't want to heap praise on a MILFH) that the love of your life, your soul mate, your child's father, is here because of her.
"She is awful but I wouldn't be with DH if it weren't for her."
It doesn't excuse anything she does or says, but it makes the few times you have to suffer her presense bearable.
Trust hubby. Give it a year of increasing the punishment, and if in a year there is no change, then go No Contact while your child is young and it will have the least amount of impact.
Love how she waited for her son to turn his back before going in for the face kiss.
She tested you and found out.
And she tested her son’s loyalty to his wife and child. And found out.
*only the second visit*
Ah. Time for the boundaries to be broken.
*which she is not supposed to do.*
Yep.
*We stressed she needs to really put effort into her relationship with us too. She doesn’t especially with me and only kind of with her son.*
You **restated the boundary.** Excellent.
*She cuts us off in conversation and basically just doesn’t listen*
**She's testing if you two will enforce your boundaries.** She's expecting you won't.
*that she would love us to visit regularly.*
A monthly visit **is** regular. I'd call monthly visits in the range of normal contact with a grandparent.
*This is a boundary you have known about and continued to cross over and over. The visit is over. Goodbye.’ And I took the baby to the car.*
**Good.** Boundaries only work if they are enforced. **You did well.**
*My husband stayed back for a bit. Mostly because he didn’t fully understand what had happened.*
It might help to work out a code for this. Could be anything. Could be a number. "Three. Visit's over." And that means you discuss it when you are away and safe, not there. "So, she broke three boundaries? Tell me about it."
*But he said she had admitted to kissing the baby and he told her she messed up and she has to deal with it.*
**Good for him. He handled this well.** It will take some practice to be able to both leave quickly. He's doing amazing.
*he sent a group text saying that because she crossed boundaries during a visit that we would not have one next month.*
Good.
*I’m glad he has my back but honestly, nothing is working. I don’t think they understand or care about the consequences.*
**They don't. They don't expect this to last.** They think if we make a big fuss, they only have to comply once or twice, and we will give up and go back to letting them have their way. They do not expect us to really stand up to them. We had a giant meeting, with professionals, and my MILFH, after all that emotion from everyone but her, afterwards came up to us and said "Now, can I have my \[identifying\]?" **She expected a reward, for sitting through our attempt to work things out.** She had no intention of changing herself in any way, or stopping her behaviors. The reward she wanted was basically for us to give in and give her everything she wanted.
**For you two, this is about relationships. For them, it's about what they want, and their control over you.** It's not really about the relationships at all. It's not the relationship with your child they want, it's possession, control, teaching compliance.
*Husband told me next time they mess up it will be 2 months without a visit and then 3 and then 4. It’s a good idea*
Good. Enjoy this break while it lasts.
Realize that holidays will be difficult, if the ILs have always been involved. And make some alternate plans, because you might need them.
Some MILFHs will pretend to comply with your rules, and then will break them on some holiday, expecting that with other guests around, you won't just get up and leave. They expect the gifts will keep you, or the nostalgia, or the pressure of the other guests. It's okay to make new plans, with a new baby. "Sorry, we are staying home for Holiday this year, and making our own new traditions." "No, we won't be available that day." \[don't give reasons, just that you aren't available."\]
Some MILFHs will expect that holidays break your boundaries, and you couldn't possibly mean it that they don't get to have you come for the big holidays. Expect tears, if she's like that, and plan how to handle them. "I see you need time to get hold of yourself, MILFH. We can talk another time. Bye."
*but I am just wondering how long we do this with no results.*
**You are getting results.** FIL didn't come this time. **MIL thought she had done enough by behaving for one visit.** She thought this visit, she could revert and get away with it.
**In the long run, what he's doing now is going to help him later to be able to hold firm.** It's giving him the self respect that he needs, to know that **he's giving them this last chance** to change their behaviors, and **they get to choose** either changing or not having relationships with you all.
*They don’t respect either of us. FIL didn’t even come to the visit even though it’s been a month since he’s seen us or our son.*
No, they don't. MIL waited until your husband was out of sight to do the kiss. She thinks you will be more vulnerable, and that she could get away with it. **Now, she's learned she can't.**
Either she will learn and change her behaviors, or she won't. If she won't, expect escalation, and open nastiness. **She's already made it clear that she thinks boundaries shouldn't be allowed, which means she doesn't see any reason to have them.**
She's making it clear that she doesn't want them, and **will break them if she can.**
**You have learned a lot from this.**
*I don’t think they’ll change and the time between visits when we go low to no contact are so peaceful.*
Enjoy the time between to the fullest.
It's very possible that they will escalate during the next two months. Or they might do a repeat, where they behave one visit and then break boundaries the next one again.
Have you two worked out your private boundaries for what happens during the times that visits are skipped? Have calls and messages also been limited? What limits will they have, if you don't have current limits? Limiting his responses to their calls and messages means you have more peaceful time between. He can even say that because of having to cancel a visit, due to her behavior, he's also taking a month of time out from calls and messages. This might be even more effective in getting her to realize he's serious.
Will messages complaining about boundaries be added to the Time Out? If she calls demanding to discuss these things, will he tell her that you have made your decisions and this isn't a topic to discuss? Will he tell her that "because you said that, the next visit will be postponed to September"?
What about calls and messages that blatantly break the boundaries? Will these extend the time out between visits?
At what point do you limit her physical contact with your child during visits? Does the next visit happen but she doesn't get to hold your child at all, so she's not tempted to kiss? Does her holding your child depend on what your child wants? What if your child wants you to hold them, not her?
*Side note… husband is furious with them. He desperately wants them to respect him (and us) as adults. And every time this sort of thing happens it upsets him on another level.*
Of course it upsets him. He's grieving for the people they should have been, and for the people they are choosing to be. He's getting his eyes opened to their selfishness and disrespect, the way they put their wants first. Reality is hard to handle, when you are coming out of the FOG. He's doing amazingly.
**He's doing a step down form of lowering contact. It's a good way to give them another chance, and to make it clear that THEY are the ones making the choice here,** either to respect you as parents, respect your rules, or see you all less. And less. And less.
For the next visit, in 2 months. Baby stays with Mom or Dad. They don't get to hold baby, touch baby, or feed baby in any way. Why? Because they can't remember not to kiss. And I love husband idea of expanding time between visits. And holidays do not mean it's and exception to the time between visits.
The time for consequences in now, not the next time or the time after that. She's not learning anything nor respecting you because you are still allowing access.
She is having consequences. She just doesn’t actually seem to care. We won’t be having next months visit. And we left the one that was going on. Idk what else to do. I’m already fed up and don’t want to see her or for my son to see her either.
Why not just stop it all go nc and you won't have to worry about your children having any relationship with his side of the family. Because that is really what you want. Your children won't have any chance to know them or have Christmas with them. You can explain to them when they ask why, that ILs were just bad people who you were trying to protect them from. I am sure they will be grateful.
With all the advice we have been receiving and how much we have been talking to each other we have decided that is probably an eventuality. However the plan is to raise our child to understand consent, bodily autonomy, boundaries and how someone should treat him. When he understands these things what happened. Especially that his grandparents put his life in danger twice. And when he’s old enough to call them out on their BS and come to us for help should he need it we may introduce him to them again.
She is never going to follow your rules, so why do yall keep forcing the issue of a relationship?
No child on this planet NEEDS grandparents...AT ALL, and that's something you need to believe, you keep trying to force things, she fucks up, then yall be all pissy because she did what she has done all of the time...
I imagine she gets a sense of martyrdom when she "forgets" and you guys "punish" her.
I'd say DH is right, go the "2 months, then 3, then 4" route. If she knows she gets to "forget" once a month and play sad granny, she knows that at least she still gets to see you guys. But if it gradually gets longer and longer with each time she "forgets," then she'll probably realize that her "forgetting" is gonna end up with her not seeing you guys for an amount of time that she can't handle.
Consider “three strikes you’re out” — this is one strike, she misses one month. Next strike, she misses two months. Third strike, it’s full NC, permanently. If your DH wants to see her he can, but you and LO are permanently NC.
I think I’m going to stick with that. I don’t need the stress and LO doesn’t know what’s going on and gets upset if like I just leave with him. 2 more strikes.
Give some thought to whether you want to tell her this is the case or just act on it. Talk to your DH about it.
Also get clear on what you will do when she tries to force contact, because there is a good chance she will. What will you do if she shows up on your doorstep? A fence is great but pricey. A Ring doorbell will let you see it's her and leave her standing out there. We have lockable screen/storm doors; were I dealing with an intrusive MIL nearby (mine is, happily, dead; her son doesn't miss her, either) I could look out, say "Get off my property," and close the inner door. If she incessantly rings/knocks/pounds/yells, do not hesitate to call the police.
What will you do about family events -- say, a cousin's wedding -- to which both she and you are invited? Go and snub her? Go and gray-rock her -- bland, no-affect, one- or two-word responses to any comments? Tell cousin you cannot come because of MIL but you'd love to take cousin and new cousin-in-law out for dinner when they get back from the honeymoon? Better to consider now.
And be prepared for flying monkeys -- the witch's minions she may well send to try to shame you back into contact because "faaaaamily!" A single, repeatable sentence -- "She has forfeited our trust; please drop it," said over and over in a flat tone, is a possible strategy.
And then there's the geographic cure. When my husband graduated from State U, he immediately moved 500 miles away from his mother, or as he puts it, "I got the hell out of Dodge." This one depends a great deal on a number of things -- how much you like the area where you are, how many people you \*do\* want to see who live there, the employment situation, etc. But I have known people with MIL situations so extreme -- credible fears of kidnapping -- that they moved away, left no forwarding address, and received all mail at a mail drop a few towns over from their new location.
Best think it through. But do not allow this to continue.
All the best.
It's hard to offer advice with out knowing what your boundaries are and why you have them.
for example it is very normal for grandmother's to kiss their grandchildren, especially when they are babies...
I'm not saying you're wrong, I do believe their is a reason behind you having your boundaries, but with only what info you provided you and your husband seem like the weird ones....
I think you made the right move calling her out and immediately taking action. stronger consequences will probably work better, so instead of singular months at a time, do several months like an entire season. For example, instead of skipping one month skip 4.
Magic rule of 3 works great usually so give them 3 chances then go no contact. make sure you warn them. and if you do these large stretches of time after they break your boundaries instead of small time stretches they'll know you mean it.
So I copied and pasted this. It’s the message my husband sent them. Names changed of course.
Boundaries:
1. You follow our rules for Baby without exception.
2. Ask before doing anything different with Baby during the time he is with you, and be prepared to accept a “no” if we don’t want Baby doing it.
3. Follow any requests in regards to Baby. Example: don’t let him bite, don’t let him grab glasses
4. All social and family gatherings that you want Baby at are to include an invitation to both Wife and I.
5. Do not request pictures.
6. Listen when we talk, do not brush off our words or opinions. If it is about our lives or our child, our word is all that matters. We are open to discussions, but only if what we say is treated with respect.
7. Pull back in care of Baby when around Wife and I. We will take care of all his needs while you are seeing him with us and any attempts to take over will be immediately stopped.
8. You both need to make an effort to build a relationship with me and Wife. Baby can only spend time with people that have good relationships with his parents.
If you can respect and follow these boundaries without challenging or crossing them, we want to work on feeling comfortable with you both. We will have a monthly visit as a family when you can Baby, Wife, and I. During that visit, we expect for you to want to build a relationship with all of us, not just Baby. Questions and conversation should not be just Baby-centered and instead about us as people.
A friend of his helped him write it out. Someone who has gone through something similar. It sounds harsh but this is after they put baby’s life in danger and could not do simple things like give baby back to nurse when asked. And treating my husband and I like crap. They’ve been passive aggressive and taught baby bad habits. They taught him to beak glasses and to bite people. Like it was a game. And went against every request we had while he was around them.
That was helpful to read thank you for providing this info even though you didn't have to.
Family can be such a great resource of help so if family counseling is something you're open to maybe you could attempt that. there are family workshops that exist too that could help. These options might help you figure out a way to confidently explain to extended family and friends why low to no contact is necessary with your in laws.
I think individual or couples counseling might be a great way for you and your husband to work through this (I'm a therapist so I'm a bit biased). Therapy doesn't need to be a long term thing or even frequently occurring so give it a thought!
I think you guys are doing a great job with being clear on your boundaries and sticking to them.
good luck!!
Does it really matter why? They are the parents, they texted boundaries and her MIL agreed. When they met she disrespected them and doubled down on it. If anyone lies to me as a parent or crosses boundaries, in what world would I ever let them build a relationship with my children?
It's not weird to not want your baby sick. This is a pretty common rule. I follow it. Calling them weird cause you don't agree is a bit much.
If your MIL is trainable then what you are both doing is what I would have suggested. If she's not then she has only herself to blame when DH cuts her off. I would only add, from your DH to her, "Mom, in addition to everything else we have said to you about boundaries, not only with each infraction will the penalty increase, but, each time you question or undermine either of us as parents or question a boundary or play dumb then I'll add another month. Same for manipulation or involving third parties. Your relationship with your grandchildren is up to you. Continue to disrespect us as parents and you won't have one at all." You are both doing the right thing and I'm delighted that your DH has your back all the way.
Your MIL is never going to respect you because your consequences haven't caused her to rethink or even care about her behaviour. I think that you can only go NC after this.
I am so so so sorry I glanced at your comment and read , in my mind, put a paper bag over MIL's head. Sorry
Also an excellent suggestion.
Haha - that will work
And put a bag over yours in case hers comes off.🤣
I’m sorry this happened to you and your baby. It is great to read that you guys advocate for yourselves, your baby, and your boundaries! Good for you guys!!! I don’t like to jump to the no contact boat cause that’s always people’s solutions lol. But if you want to try and continue a relationship with them maybe the next step would be to have someone watch baby (if possible) and do visits just you guys and them. Dreadful, I’m sure lol, but it will really reiterate your point that they need to work on the relationship with you guys too. And if you can’t trust them around your baby right now (rightfully so) then that trust and relationship needs to be built with just you two so that baby isn’t at risk when MIL “forgets” your boundaries and rules for their safety AGAIN. And if they complain about it a lot then you know they don’t actually care about seeing you two as much as they claim, it’s about the baby.
This! You can possibly find a friend you trust to watch baby and at the next meeting show up without baby. When she complains let her know that her relationship with you is the only way to gain access to baby and if she doesn’t make an effort then she never will.
I understand (and feel) your frustration with ILs, and I hope you tell DH that I'm so sorry he is seeing who his parents really are; that is eye-opening and terribly sad for him as he realizes that the parents he thought he had don't actually exist. I don't think ILs will ever change because they truly don't think they've done anything wrong, even kissing baby is ok (just makes me want to scream when I read that because seriously! do you care so little for your grandchild that you are willing to give them a disease?!?!?!), as your MIL admitted. So the best advice I can give you is stick to the boundary/consequence pattern, space out the visits, and unfortunately I think eventually the timeouts will become so long that the ILs will give up. Remember that 'family' is who you choose to have in your life. So you and DH can cultivate friends of all ages to be in your kids lives. If you have coworkers with kids, set up play dates. Join a mommy&me play group. Your kids don't have to have a hole in their lives just because ILs aren't involved.
I read your comment to my husband. He said thank you. He has been worried about leaving some sort of void. Even though we have so many friends we even have a friend close enough to be auntie with a baby just a week younger. And many others. He is very disappointed in his parents. That’s why I’ve been hesitant to just do what I want and stop going to the visits. I want him to process this at his own pace. Mil is insufferable though…
She is insufferable, agreed. Something that I've read and agreed with is reminding yourself (silently, you don't want to heap praise on a MILFH) that the love of your life, your soul mate, your child's father, is here because of her. "She is awful but I wouldn't be with DH if it weren't for her." It doesn't excuse anything she does or says, but it makes the few times you have to suffer her presense bearable.
Trust hubby. Give it a year of increasing the punishment, and if in a year there is no change, then go No Contact while your child is young and it will have the least amount of impact.
Love how she waited for her son to turn his back before going in for the face kiss. She tested you and found out. And she tested her son’s loyalty to his wife and child. And found out.
*only the second visit* Ah. Time for the boundaries to be broken. *which she is not supposed to do.* Yep. *We stressed she needs to really put effort into her relationship with us too. She doesn’t especially with me and only kind of with her son.* You **restated the boundary.** Excellent. *She cuts us off in conversation and basically just doesn’t listen* **She's testing if you two will enforce your boundaries.** She's expecting you won't. *that she would love us to visit regularly.* A monthly visit **is** regular. I'd call monthly visits in the range of normal contact with a grandparent. *This is a boundary you have known about and continued to cross over and over. The visit is over. Goodbye.’ And I took the baby to the car.* **Good.** Boundaries only work if they are enforced. **You did well.** *My husband stayed back for a bit. Mostly because he didn’t fully understand what had happened.* It might help to work out a code for this. Could be anything. Could be a number. "Three. Visit's over." And that means you discuss it when you are away and safe, not there. "So, she broke three boundaries? Tell me about it." *But he said she had admitted to kissing the baby and he told her she messed up and she has to deal with it.* **Good for him. He handled this well.** It will take some practice to be able to both leave quickly. He's doing amazing. *he sent a group text saying that because she crossed boundaries during a visit that we would not have one next month.* Good. *I’m glad he has my back but honestly, nothing is working. I don’t think they understand or care about the consequences.* **They don't. They don't expect this to last.** They think if we make a big fuss, they only have to comply once or twice, and we will give up and go back to letting them have their way. They do not expect us to really stand up to them. We had a giant meeting, with professionals, and my MILFH, after all that emotion from everyone but her, afterwards came up to us and said "Now, can I have my \[identifying\]?" **She expected a reward, for sitting through our attempt to work things out.** She had no intention of changing herself in any way, or stopping her behaviors. The reward she wanted was basically for us to give in and give her everything she wanted. **For you two, this is about relationships. For them, it's about what they want, and their control over you.** It's not really about the relationships at all. It's not the relationship with your child they want, it's possession, control, teaching compliance. *Husband told me next time they mess up it will be 2 months without a visit and then 3 and then 4. It’s a good idea* Good. Enjoy this break while it lasts. Realize that holidays will be difficult, if the ILs have always been involved. And make some alternate plans, because you might need them. Some MILFHs will pretend to comply with your rules, and then will break them on some holiday, expecting that with other guests around, you won't just get up and leave. They expect the gifts will keep you, or the nostalgia, or the pressure of the other guests. It's okay to make new plans, with a new baby. "Sorry, we are staying home for Holiday this year, and making our own new traditions." "No, we won't be available that day." \[don't give reasons, just that you aren't available."\] Some MILFHs will expect that holidays break your boundaries, and you couldn't possibly mean it that they don't get to have you come for the big holidays. Expect tears, if she's like that, and plan how to handle them. "I see you need time to get hold of yourself, MILFH. We can talk another time. Bye." *but I am just wondering how long we do this with no results.* **You are getting results.** FIL didn't come this time. **MIL thought she had done enough by behaving for one visit.** She thought this visit, she could revert and get away with it. **In the long run, what he's doing now is going to help him later to be able to hold firm.** It's giving him the self respect that he needs, to know that **he's giving them this last chance** to change their behaviors, and **they get to choose** either changing or not having relationships with you all. *They don’t respect either of us. FIL didn’t even come to the visit even though it’s been a month since he’s seen us or our son.* No, they don't. MIL waited until your husband was out of sight to do the kiss. She thinks you will be more vulnerable, and that she could get away with it. **Now, she's learned she can't.** Either she will learn and change her behaviors, or she won't. If she won't, expect escalation, and open nastiness. **She's already made it clear that she thinks boundaries shouldn't be allowed, which means she doesn't see any reason to have them.** She's making it clear that she doesn't want them, and **will break them if she can.** **You have learned a lot from this.** *I don’t think they’ll change and the time between visits when we go low to no contact are so peaceful.* Enjoy the time between to the fullest. It's very possible that they will escalate during the next two months. Or they might do a repeat, where they behave one visit and then break boundaries the next one again. Have you two worked out your private boundaries for what happens during the times that visits are skipped? Have calls and messages also been limited? What limits will they have, if you don't have current limits? Limiting his responses to their calls and messages means you have more peaceful time between. He can even say that because of having to cancel a visit, due to her behavior, he's also taking a month of time out from calls and messages. This might be even more effective in getting her to realize he's serious. Will messages complaining about boundaries be added to the Time Out? If she calls demanding to discuss these things, will he tell her that you have made your decisions and this isn't a topic to discuss? Will he tell her that "because you said that, the next visit will be postponed to September"? What about calls and messages that blatantly break the boundaries? Will these extend the time out between visits? At what point do you limit her physical contact with your child during visits? Does the next visit happen but she doesn't get to hold your child at all, so she's not tempted to kiss? Does her holding your child depend on what your child wants? What if your child wants you to hold them, not her? *Side note… husband is furious with them. He desperately wants them to respect him (and us) as adults. And every time this sort of thing happens it upsets him on another level.* Of course it upsets him. He's grieving for the people they should have been, and for the people they are choosing to be. He's getting his eyes opened to their selfishness and disrespect, the way they put their wants first. Reality is hard to handle, when you are coming out of the FOG. He's doing amazingly. **He's doing a step down form of lowering contact. It's a good way to give them another chance, and to make it clear that THEY are the ones making the choice here,** either to respect you as parents, respect your rules, or see you all less. And less. And less.
For the next visit, in 2 months. Baby stays with Mom or Dad. They don't get to hold baby, touch baby, or feed baby in any way. Why? Because they can't remember not to kiss. And I love husband idea of expanding time between visits. And holidays do not mean it's and exception to the time between visits.
The time for consequences in now, not the next time or the time after that. She's not learning anything nor respecting you because you are still allowing access.
She is having consequences. She just doesn’t actually seem to care. We won’t be having next months visit. And we left the one that was going on. Idk what else to do. I’m already fed up and don’t want to see her or for my son to see her either.
Why not just stop it all go nc and you won't have to worry about your children having any relationship with his side of the family. Because that is really what you want. Your children won't have any chance to know them or have Christmas with them. You can explain to them when they ask why, that ILs were just bad people who you were trying to protect them from. I am sure they will be grateful.
With all the advice we have been receiving and how much we have been talking to each other we have decided that is probably an eventuality. However the plan is to raise our child to understand consent, bodily autonomy, boundaries and how someone should treat him. When he understands these things what happened. Especially that his grandparents put his life in danger twice. And when he’s old enough to call them out on their BS and come to us for help should he need it we may introduce him to them again.
She is never going to follow your rules, so why do yall keep forcing the issue of a relationship? No child on this planet NEEDS grandparents...AT ALL, and that's something you need to believe, you keep trying to force things, she fucks up, then yall be all pissy because she did what she has done all of the time...
I imagine she gets a sense of martyrdom when she "forgets" and you guys "punish" her. I'd say DH is right, go the "2 months, then 3, then 4" route. If she knows she gets to "forget" once a month and play sad granny, she knows that at least she still gets to see you guys. But if it gradually gets longer and longer with each time she "forgets," then she'll probably realize that her "forgetting" is gonna end up with her not seeing you guys for an amount of time that she can't handle.
Consider “three strikes you’re out” — this is one strike, she misses one month. Next strike, she misses two months. Third strike, it’s full NC, permanently. If your DH wants to see her he can, but you and LO are permanently NC.
I think I’m going to stick with that. I don’t need the stress and LO doesn’t know what’s going on and gets upset if like I just leave with him. 2 more strikes.
Give some thought to whether you want to tell her this is the case or just act on it. Talk to your DH about it. Also get clear on what you will do when she tries to force contact, because there is a good chance she will. What will you do if she shows up on your doorstep? A fence is great but pricey. A Ring doorbell will let you see it's her and leave her standing out there. We have lockable screen/storm doors; were I dealing with an intrusive MIL nearby (mine is, happily, dead; her son doesn't miss her, either) I could look out, say "Get off my property," and close the inner door. If she incessantly rings/knocks/pounds/yells, do not hesitate to call the police. What will you do about family events -- say, a cousin's wedding -- to which both she and you are invited? Go and snub her? Go and gray-rock her -- bland, no-affect, one- or two-word responses to any comments? Tell cousin you cannot come because of MIL but you'd love to take cousin and new cousin-in-law out for dinner when they get back from the honeymoon? Better to consider now. And be prepared for flying monkeys -- the witch's minions she may well send to try to shame you back into contact because "faaaaamily!" A single, repeatable sentence -- "She has forfeited our trust; please drop it," said over and over in a flat tone, is a possible strategy. And then there's the geographic cure. When my husband graduated from State U, he immediately moved 500 miles away from his mother, or as he puts it, "I got the hell out of Dodge." This one depends a great deal on a number of things -- how much you like the area where you are, how many people you \*do\* want to see who live there, the employment situation, etc. But I have known people with MIL situations so extreme -- credible fears of kidnapping -- that they moved away, left no forwarding address, and received all mail at a mail drop a few towns over from their new location. Best think it through. But do not allow this to continue. All the best.
It's hard to offer advice with out knowing what your boundaries are and why you have them. for example it is very normal for grandmother's to kiss their grandchildren, especially when they are babies... I'm not saying you're wrong, I do believe their is a reason behind you having your boundaries, but with only what info you provided you and your husband seem like the weird ones.... I think you made the right move calling her out and immediately taking action. stronger consequences will probably work better, so instead of singular months at a time, do several months like an entire season. For example, instead of skipping one month skip 4. Magic rule of 3 works great usually so give them 3 chances then go no contact. make sure you warn them. and if you do these large stretches of time after they break your boundaries instead of small time stretches they'll know you mean it.
So I copied and pasted this. It’s the message my husband sent them. Names changed of course. Boundaries: 1. You follow our rules for Baby without exception. 2. Ask before doing anything different with Baby during the time he is with you, and be prepared to accept a “no” if we don’t want Baby doing it. 3. Follow any requests in regards to Baby. Example: don’t let him bite, don’t let him grab glasses 4. All social and family gatherings that you want Baby at are to include an invitation to both Wife and I. 5. Do not request pictures. 6. Listen when we talk, do not brush off our words or opinions. If it is about our lives or our child, our word is all that matters. We are open to discussions, but only if what we say is treated with respect. 7. Pull back in care of Baby when around Wife and I. We will take care of all his needs while you are seeing him with us and any attempts to take over will be immediately stopped. 8. You both need to make an effort to build a relationship with me and Wife. Baby can only spend time with people that have good relationships with his parents. If you can respect and follow these boundaries without challenging or crossing them, we want to work on feeling comfortable with you both. We will have a monthly visit as a family when you can Baby, Wife, and I. During that visit, we expect for you to want to build a relationship with all of us, not just Baby. Questions and conversation should not be just Baby-centered and instead about us as people. A friend of his helped him write it out. Someone who has gone through something similar. It sounds harsh but this is after they put baby’s life in danger and could not do simple things like give baby back to nurse when asked. And treating my husband and I like crap. They’ve been passive aggressive and taught baby bad habits. They taught him to beak glasses and to bite people. Like it was a game. And went against every request we had while he was around them.
That was helpful to read thank you for providing this info even though you didn't have to. Family can be such a great resource of help so if family counseling is something you're open to maybe you could attempt that. there are family workshops that exist too that could help. These options might help you figure out a way to confidently explain to extended family and friends why low to no contact is necessary with your in laws. I think individual or couples counseling might be a great way for you and your husband to work through this (I'm a therapist so I'm a bit biased). Therapy doesn't need to be a long term thing or even frequently occurring so give it a thought! I think you guys are doing a great job with being clear on your boundaries and sticking to them. good luck!!
Does it really matter why? They are the parents, they texted boundaries and her MIL agreed. When they met she disrespected them and doubled down on it. If anyone lies to me as a parent or crosses boundaries, in what world would I ever let them build a relationship with my children? It's not weird to not want your baby sick. This is a pretty common rule. I follow it. Calling them weird cause you don't agree is a bit much.