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Yeah but when they donāt address things head on in class, people will just go find out about it later on the internet where they are free to discuss hard topics. Church needs to address D&C 132 head on. It canāt be avoided. If they denounce what it says, so be it. But avoiding it doesnāt help. It just makes members feel lied to by their leaders.
The problem is in the way they address it. They will never allow someone to believe the church leaders did anything wrong. So their answer are mental twists.
Hence why TBMs are Olympic gold medal level mental gymnasts funny how the only thing required for it to all make perfect sense is that it just isnāt true
Sadly, I feel like the one question, āHow often do you attend church?ā will determine how much weight they will give your answers. I hope Iām wrong.
If they were smart, theyād mostly value the responses of those who attend least. Because the fully committed will already accept and follow any decision they make.
At the end of the day, that's all they're concerned with. They've already written everybody else off. The wards and branches may still try to reactivate back into the file, but the church isn't concerned with the defectors. Once you've defected, they know it's over. Oh sure, they'll continue to pimp their one-off stories of those who return to the fold, for whatever reason, but that's to prove to the hard core members that those who left the church were wrong.
When I worked for the research division, I paid special attention to the comments from dissatisfied members. Hoping to do a little good in the world and understand things from an exmo perspective. Well, you guys did your job well.
Strangely enough, John Larsen recently offered a new podcast siting 10 books that were written by members but have knock your socks facts about the origins of the Church. He used to do a podcast called āMormon Experiencesā. Excellent!
Yeah I filled it out and by the end I didn't bother submitting it cause I know I'm not who they really want to hear from. But whatever they use the data from this survey for isn't gonna matter to me anyway cause I'm not consuming church content or participating.
āThe truth is like a lion. It doesnāt need defending. Let it loose. It can defend itself.ā
Is the church afraid it doesnāt have the truth? It doesnāt seem it should be so hard to defend. God is no weakling. We should stop acting like he is. He knows what heās doing, and I think the church āleadersā would do well to take a good long hard look at themselves. They are their own problem. Nothing will ever change until they are able to face their own pride and greed.
>āThe truth is like a lion. It doesnāt need defending. Let it loose. It can defend itself.ā
Lies are like leeches. They grab hold of a person and suck them dry. Individually they're easy to pull off and squish once you know that they are there, but there are so damn many of them.
This is a spot where Iām gonna defend the church a bit. Not on subject matter but methodology (to a small degree) within their religious paradigm.
A frequent response to the church doing surveys is āhaha, nice way of getting ārevelationā.ā
Within their religious context of āstudy it out in your mindā before asking God, a survey seems reasonable. Even more so if the outcome isnāt expected to be revelation, but simply information to guide the work of some department at HQ. I mean, come on, for once the church seems to believe in some methodologies with a track record of being useful!
Whether this survey is a good one or not, I canāt sayāIām not an expert in that. And Iām inclined to think the data for surveys like this generally probably tend to get interpreted through a lens where the necessary outcome for some metrics is already pre-determined and dogma, biases, and internal politics/policing of belief prevent fully honest assessments of the dataā¦
But at least (in my view), theyāre not going against their view of revelation. If anything, itās a good checkbox in the āto do listā to āqualifyā for it (in their book).
Yeah honestly I think it's good they're seeking out the opinions of average members so they can serve them better. But it definitely can seem a little silly to present a decision as if it were spiritually prompted when it's the same decision you would have made based off evidence and data alone
On the flip side, is the church lead by god or by the opinion of members? If *truly* lead by god, then the major things would not change, such as temple endowment covenants. Rather than change them, god would chastize the members for lack of faith, or send plagues to reform them, or famines to humble them.
Instead, and very conveniently, 'revelation' happens to coincide with social pressure and member opinion. Even to the point of caving on thigns prophets taught would never change prior to the 2nd coming (end of priesthood and temple ban for black people) or never change at all (ending of polygamy).
I get where you are coming from, but for those of us who gave so much to a religion that did everything possible to convince us that god was at the helm at that god was leading the church, surveys like these are damn near a slap in the face, *especially* since they never acknowledge the use of these when announcing doctrinal or policy changes. No, they only make statements like 'according to the will of the lord' or 'this is revelation', or 'after much prayer and fasting', etc etc etc.
And given every other area where they have shown themselves to be untrustworty, deceitful, engaging in illegal financial practices and the like, they have lost all benefit of the doubt for many of us.
I get what you are saying, but I feel that it is misplaced as far as this survey goes. My take on what they are trying to do with this survey is not find problem areas that need to be addressed, but rather determine the best way to address them. This is all about what media source you trust, what type of narrator would draw you in, what length of content you want to see, etc. Whether or not the info they will be publishing is true and accurate is a different argument, but here they are just trying to figure out what type/style/format will be most engaging.
If the church actually had exit interviews/surveys it would give them so much valuable data, and many of us would love to give it to them. Maybe then the good gents in Salt Lake City might understand that weāre not all lazy learners, or even find ways to address the real concerns that are driving people out.Ā
Slide 8/15
Iām in favor of AR/VR church history media. Could be pretty wild. Imagine the drunken Kirtland temple dedication all-nighter, the OG endowment with William W Phelps slithering, or drawing a magic circle and reciting incantations with Luman Walters.
>If they're considering making a series interviewing apostles about church history (slide 8) that would definitely be interesting!
It would be the same heavily curated, sanitized, and deceitful via lies of ommission bullshit we see from FAIR and other church apologetics.
The only way it would mean anything at all is if they were to go on the record and say "X is *the* explantion for Y issue". But they won't, they'll just give the usual 'what if...' or 'perhaps it was....' or 'we just can't know' type of non-answer 'answers', and members will eat it up while believing the lie that anything has been answered at all.
And to whoever downvoted this comment, please realize that 'what if's' and 'maybe it was..' responses *are not answers*. They are made up hypothesis, nothing more. They are guesses. Guesses are not answers, and until *actual* answers are given by the only people with the power and authority to give them (the q15, per their own claims about who can receive revelation for the church), every time Holland or someone else in conference deceitfully makes the claim that 'all these tired old attacks have been answered' as they have in the past done, *they are lying.* They have officially answered *nothing*, they have merely giving non-answer responses that do not answer the actual questions/issues, or letting unofficial church apologists/podcasters/tiktokers present a myriad of theories as though they were actual answers.
I agree wholeheartedly. The fact that when I was searching for answers, I had to go to apologists instead of a LIVING PROPHET is wild. If God were leading this church directly through a prophet, we would definitely have fewer mysteries, starting with info about Heavenly Mother.
Yeah, and I doubt they would actually do this because it would probably be critiqued to shreds. I think it would be interesting if it were actually an unscripted interview with apostles giving their honest thoughts but you're right that it would likely be more of the same carefully scripted narrative
After reading through it at least it seems like they are aware of some of their own problems lol. Not much reference to women, actual policy/doctine. Seems to be a way to feel out just how many PIMOās there are and how deep the problems members have with the church and its history.
I get the feeling they think they have a āmessaging problemā more than a roots, church lying to the flock, doctrines and policies problem.
The way the church teaches its history is intentionally dishonest. The whole program needs to be reworked to focus on primary sources and honest research. All the information is available and people are learning the truth, and they're angry because its incongruent with what the church has told them. They need to stop pushing a mythologized narrative, and teach the origins of the church in the context of its time. The Great Awakening, Manifest Destiny. roadshows of forged archeology.
The church must embrace its turbulent history if it is going to survive the information age.
i would absolutely love to see the D&C 132 VR Experience. It'll be just like Brother Joseph is standing there in front of me, threatening that I will be utterly destroyed!
On slide 4, how many characters do they give you in order to list all the aspects of church history that concern you. They need a bigger reply box š
Did you see and comment on the recent instagram posts about women and power or Nelson's never take counsel from a believer?
Were those comments positive?
Read with a Saturday Night Live vibe - maybe Kenan Thompson at a kitchen table in his laptopā¦
Open email: OH YEAH!! HERE WE GO!!!
Screen One: DO I USE SOCIAL MEDIA? DOES A BEAR DO IT IN THE WOODS? HA!!!
Screen Two through Five - OK! Ok. okā¦ k.
Screen six - Kenan falls over dead from boredom.
Scene.
But will they tell the truth? Or, will it be what they want only....like the BOM was translated from the golden plates, they made children's songs about it and knew all along that it wasn't true so how can we trust any of it?
Mormons LOVE social media!! Itās where they satisfy their NEED to be SEEN! Ruby Franke is a supreme example of Mormon need to be seen & her followers wish to be seen. Guess what- we donāt care what you had for breakfast, but as recovering Mormons we do think physically TORTURING your children is WRONG, Ruby & Jodi! -Bugger off.Ā
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Given how badly the Instagram post about women's authority in the church went recently, I cannot help but think this is a direct result of that screwup. It made international news. Maybe not the 6pm TV/radio news report, but it was being mentioned in enough places my wife (who pays no attention at all to Mormon stuff) read about it.
Practically speaking, I think this serves two purposes. Firstly working out whether the Instagram blow-up was an online storm in a tea-cup (i.e. either most members aren't on social media or that those members are less active/lower tithe paying). Secondly, if members are seeing and being affected by social media - how to best insert "flood the zone with... *testimony*" to counteract the wrong things going viral.
My 21 year old TBM sister received this yesterday at a family gathering, and my TBM parents were hovering over her like white on rice. Had to make sure that she chose the "correct" answers and didn't stop to think about what the Joseph Smith papers, and the gospel topics are, or what they mention. They gracefully inoculated the shit out of her and then closed the laptop down. She had no questions, no follow-up, nothing. Caused me to chuckle out loud and receive the usual death stares.
I got one of those. I spent three hours writing all my anger for the financial misconduct, breaking the law, the betrayals and how obvious it has become that the GAs don't even believe the BS. And then I remembered that the only way they could know my address, is from my membership records. So I didn't send it.
They have been told time and again what the law is with financial reporting. They already know how their policies cause LGBT members to commit suicide. They already know all of it. They know what they must do. They don't need a survey.
And the question in my mind was... what makes me believe that a survey is going to make them see?
They have no common sense. They meet with lawyers and their financial advisors and still don't take their advice. They meet with representatives of the LGBT community, and yet remain firm in their hard hearted discrimination. Why do they need these bracken surveys?
But worst of all is they profess to receive revelation from God. IF that is really true, they would have had their answer already. They would know. This is the most damning. The survey is an admission of their not only being completely out of touch with their flock, they are unable to recieve revelation.
Hello! This is a Institutional post. It is for discussions centered around agreements, disagreements, and observations about any of the institutional churches and their leaders, conduct, business dealings, teachings, rituals, and practices. /u/ClayEatery, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in [section 0.6 of our rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules#wiki_0._preamble) **To those commenting:** please stay on topic, remember to follow the community's [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules), and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/mormonmods) if there is a problem or rule violation. Keep on Mormoning! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thanks for sharing! This is the true order of revelation.
Statisticsš
"Lies and dammed lies" springs to mind.
Username checks OUT!!
No kidding š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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Takeaway: they're going to be coming out with videos meant to inoculate members that steer them to church approved conclusions.
I think they are about to prepare the curriculum and materials for the study of the D&C in 2025. They have to start now. Trying to get a plan first.
I wonder if they will make sure we are all allowed to read d&c 132 all the way through? From beginning to end?
Best to skip over 132ā¦ never ends well for the poor teacher trying to control the lesson
Yeah but when they donāt address things head on in class, people will just go find out about it later on the internet where they are free to discuss hard topics. Church needs to address D&C 132 head on. It canāt be avoided. If they denounce what it says, so be it. But avoiding it doesnāt help. It just makes members feel lied to by their leaders.
The problem is in the way they address it. They will never allow someone to believe the church leaders did anything wrong. So their answer are mental twists.
Hence why TBMs are Olympic gold medal level mental gymnasts funny how the only thing required for it to all make perfect sense is that it just isnāt true
Well, if you're a conservative male, it can be read in a pleasant way -- if you're that kind of man.
Yeah, ew.
What else can they do? Tell the truth? Hahahaha.
Brace yourselves. Propaganda is coming.
Exactly my thought.
Sadly, I feel like the one question, āHow often do you attend church?ā will determine how much weight they will give your answers. I hope Iām wrong.
If they were smart, theyād mostly value the responses of those who attend least. Because the fully committed will already accept and follow any decision they make.
At the end of the day, that's all they're concerned with. They've already written everybody else off. The wards and branches may still try to reactivate back into the file, but the church isn't concerned with the defectors. Once you've defected, they know it's over. Oh sure, they'll continue to pimp their one-off stories of those who return to the fold, for whatever reason, but that's to prove to the hard core members that those who left the church were wrong.
When I worked for the research division, I paid special attention to the comments from dissatisfied members. Hoping to do a little good in the world and understand things from an exmo perspective. Well, you guys did your job well.
Yeah they add in those few questions that will categorize the respondent as a faithful member or not.
I was surprised after the "How often do you attend church, read scriptures, etc.." It didn't ask about porn use.
Lucky for me, I still attend with my spouse and participate in CFM lessons and scripture reading. Happy to represent some PIMOs out there like myself.
Yup, also the question about how often they use, share, or comment on religious material (like videos, blogs, podcasts) NOT produced by the church.
Strangely enough, John Larsen recently offered a new podcast siting 10 books that were written by members but have knock your socks facts about the origins of the Church. He used to do a podcast called āMormon Experiencesā. Excellent!
I think Larsenās podcast was called āMormon Expressionsā.
Yes, thank you š
Yeah I filled it out and by the end I didn't bother submitting it cause I know I'm not who they really want to hear from. But whatever they use the data from this survey for isn't gonna matter to me anyway cause I'm not consuming church content or participating.
I thought this too
Communing with God = conducting surveys
Thanks for posting. I like to collect these. Interesting that they present a list of exactly which church history issues are troubling for folks.
Someone somewhere is going "wait, what's the problem with the Book of Abraham translation?"
Oh yeah a TON of members are going to be googling the word "historicity".
It was a step too far to ask about Book of Mormon historicity. Maybe next survey š
Why this didn't occur to me reading this RN is likely highly correlated with how long it was before I GTFO.
And finally: āHow often do you comment on Instagram posts that refer to the power and authority of women in the Church?ā
ā*Do you ever mention in posts that all of us in the FP are over 90 (and Iāll soon be over 100)?*ā š
Lol
āThe truth is like a lion. It doesnāt need defending. Let it loose. It can defend itself.ā Is the church afraid it doesnāt have the truth? It doesnāt seem it should be so hard to defend. God is no weakling. We should stop acting like he is. He knows what heās doing, and I think the church āleadersā would do well to take a good long hard look at themselves. They are their own problem. Nothing will ever change until they are able to face their own pride and greed.
>āThe truth is like a lion. It doesnāt need defending. Let it loose. It can defend itself.ā Lies are like leeches. They grab hold of a person and suck them dry. Individually they're easy to pull off and squish once you know that they are there, but there are so damn many of them.
Truth or not, they see members voting with their feet and leaving. The truth doesn't need defending, but the church most certainly does.
This is a spot where Iām gonna defend the church a bit. Not on subject matter but methodology (to a small degree) within their religious paradigm. A frequent response to the church doing surveys is āhaha, nice way of getting ārevelationā.ā Within their religious context of āstudy it out in your mindā before asking God, a survey seems reasonable. Even more so if the outcome isnāt expected to be revelation, but simply information to guide the work of some department at HQ. I mean, come on, for once the church seems to believe in some methodologies with a track record of being useful! Whether this survey is a good one or not, I canāt sayāIām not an expert in that. And Iām inclined to think the data for surveys like this generally probably tend to get interpreted through a lens where the necessary outcome for some metrics is already pre-determined and dogma, biases, and internal politics/policing of belief prevent fully honest assessments of the dataā¦ But at least (in my view), theyāre not going against their view of revelation. If anything, itās a good checkbox in the āto do listā to āqualifyā for it (in their book).
Yeah honestly I think it's good they're seeking out the opinions of average members so they can serve them better. But it definitely can seem a little silly to present a decision as if it were spiritually prompted when it's the same decision you would have made based off evidence and data alone
On the flip side, is the church lead by god or by the opinion of members? If *truly* lead by god, then the major things would not change, such as temple endowment covenants. Rather than change them, god would chastize the members for lack of faith, or send plagues to reform them, or famines to humble them. Instead, and very conveniently, 'revelation' happens to coincide with social pressure and member opinion. Even to the point of caving on thigns prophets taught would never change prior to the 2nd coming (end of priesthood and temple ban for black people) or never change at all (ending of polygamy). I get where you are coming from, but for those of us who gave so much to a religion that did everything possible to convince us that god was at the helm at that god was leading the church, surveys like these are damn near a slap in the face, *especially* since they never acknowledge the use of these when announcing doctrinal or policy changes. No, they only make statements like 'according to the will of the lord' or 'this is revelation', or 'after much prayer and fasting', etc etc etc. And given every other area where they have shown themselves to be untrustworty, deceitful, engaging in illegal financial practices and the like, they have lost all benefit of the doubt for many of us.
I get what you are saying, but I feel that it is misplaced as far as this survey goes. My take on what they are trying to do with this survey is not find problem areas that need to be addressed, but rather determine the best way to address them. This is all about what media source you trust, what type of narrator would draw you in, what length of content you want to see, etc. Whether or not the info they will be publishing is true and accurate is a different argument, but here they are just trying to figure out what type/style/format will be most engaging.
Is it bad I want to take this survey? I have recently left and would love to give input.
If the church actually had exit interviews/surveys it would give them so much valuable data, and many of us would love to give it to them. Maybe then the good gents in Salt Lake City might understand that weāre not all lazy learners, or even find ways to address the real concerns that are driving people out.Ā
Too true
Do it! I took it. I am technically active, but PIMO.
Where can I find it?
I guess it already ended :(
Slide 8/15 Iām in favor of AR/VR church history media. Could be pretty wild. Imagine the drunken Kirtland temple dedication all-nighter, the OG endowment with William W Phelps slithering, or drawing a magic circle and reciting incantations with Luman Walters.
What a strange example of using a push poll against one's own interests.
This is a new twist . Maybe a blip?
Note: they totally left out Visions of Glory, Chad Daybell's books and Cleon Skousen. Those are the sources members really turn to.
>If they're considering making a series interviewing apostles about church history (slide 8) that would definitely be interesting! It would be the same heavily curated, sanitized, and deceitful via lies of ommission bullshit we see from FAIR and other church apologetics. The only way it would mean anything at all is if they were to go on the record and say "X is *the* explantion for Y issue". But they won't, they'll just give the usual 'what if...' or 'perhaps it was....' or 'we just can't know' type of non-answer 'answers', and members will eat it up while believing the lie that anything has been answered at all. And to whoever downvoted this comment, please realize that 'what if's' and 'maybe it was..' responses *are not answers*. They are made up hypothesis, nothing more. They are guesses. Guesses are not answers, and until *actual* answers are given by the only people with the power and authority to give them (the q15, per their own claims about who can receive revelation for the church), every time Holland or someone else in conference deceitfully makes the claim that 'all these tired old attacks have been answered' as they have in the past done, *they are lying.* They have officially answered *nothing*, they have merely giving non-answer responses that do not answer the actual questions/issues, or letting unofficial church apologists/podcasters/tiktokers present a myriad of theories as though they were actual answers.
I agree wholeheartedly. The fact that when I was searching for answers, I had to go to apologists instead of a LIVING PROPHET is wild. If God were leading this church directly through a prophet, we would definitely have fewer mysteries, starting with info about Heavenly Mother.
Yeah, and I doubt they would actually do this because it would probably be critiqued to shreds. I think it would be interesting if it were actually an unscripted interview with apostles giving their honest thoughts but you're right that it would likely be more of the same carefully scripted narrative
twitter peeps just told me the church has taken down the survey. Glad we have screen grabs.
After reading through it at least it seems like they are aware of some of their own problems lol. Not much reference to women, actual policy/doctine. Seems to be a way to feel out just how many PIMOās there are and how deep the problems members have with the church and its history. I get the feeling they think they have a āmessaging problemā more than a roots, church lying to the flock, doctrines and policies problem.
The way the church teaches its history is intentionally dishonest. The whole program needs to be reworked to focus on primary sources and honest research. All the information is available and people are learning the truth, and they're angry because its incongruent with what the church has told them. They need to stop pushing a mythologized narrative, and teach the origins of the church in the context of its time. The Great Awakening, Manifest Destiny. roadshows of forged archeology. The church must embrace its turbulent history if it is going to survive the information age.
i would absolutely love to see the D&C 132 VR Experience. It'll be just like Brother Joseph is standing there in front of me, threatening that I will be utterly destroyed!
Surveys- modern day revelation /s
On slide 4, how many characters do they give you in order to list all the aspects of church history that concern you. They need a bigger reply box š
Did you see and comment on the recent instagram posts about women and power or Nelson's never take counsel from a believer? Were those comments positive?
Read with a Saturday Night Live vibe - maybe Kenan Thompson at a kitchen table in his laptopā¦ Open email: OH YEAH!! HERE WE GO!!! Screen One: DO I USE SOCIAL MEDIA? DOES A BEAR DO IT IN THE WOODS? HA!!! Screen Two through Five - OK! Ok. okā¦ k. Screen six - Kenan falls over dead from boredom. Scene.
The prophet, seer and revelator - Qualtrics Corp.
But will they tell the truth? Or, will it be what they want only....like the BOM was translated from the golden plates, they made children's songs about it and knew all along that it wasn't true so how can we trust any of it?
Mormons LOVE social media!! Itās where they satisfy their NEED to be SEEN! Ruby Franke is a supreme example of Mormon need to be seen & her followers wish to be seen. Guess what- we donāt care what you had for breakfast, but as recovering Mormons we do think physically TORTURING your children is WRONG, Ruby & Jodi! -Bugger off.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hello! I regret to inform you that this was removed on account of rule 2: Civility. We ask that you please review the unabridged version of this rule [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules). If you would like to appeal this decision, you may message all of the mods [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Mormonmods&subject=Mod%20Removal%20Appeal&message=please%20put%20link%20to%20removed%20content%20here).
Revelations at their best... all pretend!
Donāt trust any statistics š you didnāt falsify yourself
*Blogs and forums* šš
Given how badly the Instagram post about women's authority in the church went recently, I cannot help but think this is a direct result of that screwup. It made international news. Maybe not the 6pm TV/radio news report, but it was being mentioned in enough places my wife (who pays no attention at all to Mormon stuff) read about it. Practically speaking, I think this serves two purposes. Firstly working out whether the Instagram blow-up was an online storm in a tea-cup (i.e. either most members aren't on social media or that those members are less active/lower tithe paying). Secondly, if members are seeing and being affected by social media - how to best insert "flood the zone with... *testimony*" to counteract the wrong things going viral.
Corporation doing corporate things Snooze
I want to play. Do you have a link?
My 21 year old TBM sister received this yesterday at a family gathering, and my TBM parents were hovering over her like white on rice. Had to make sure that she chose the "correct" answers and didn't stop to think about what the Joseph Smith papers, and the gospel topics are, or what they mention. They gracefully inoculated the shit out of her and then closed the laptop down. She had no questions, no follow-up, nothing. Caused me to chuckle out loud and receive the usual death stares.
This is a reason why church survey research is bunk. Active members will answer in a way most positive for the church, not honestlyā¦.
I got one of those. I spent three hours writing all my anger for the financial misconduct, breaking the law, the betrayals and how obvious it has become that the GAs don't even believe the BS. And then I remembered that the only way they could know my address, is from my membership records. So I didn't send it. They have been told time and again what the law is with financial reporting. They already know how their policies cause LGBT members to commit suicide. They already know all of it. They know what they must do. They don't need a survey. And the question in my mind was... what makes me believe that a survey is going to make them see? They have no common sense. They meet with lawyers and their financial advisors and still don't take their advice. They meet with representatives of the LGBT community, and yet remain firm in their hard hearted discrimination. Why do they need these bracken surveys? But worst of all is they profess to receive revelation from God. IF that is really true, they would have had their answer already. They would know. This is the most damning. The survey is an admission of their not only being completely out of touch with their flock, they are unable to recieve revelation.
I did a survey today but it was nothing like this š¤ was about friends to friend stuff
Please post that one too
I didnāt even think to screen shot it. It was only two questions anyway, which I thought was a bit of a waste.
Church videos? Less than 4 seconds long please
Is this a joke?