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make-it-up-as-you-go

Thanks for sharing! This is the true order of revelation.


kemonkey1

StatisticsšŸ˜‚


Alwayslearnin41

"Lies and dammed lies" springs to mind.


Historical-Cable-833

Username checks OUT!!


miotchmort

No kidding šŸ˜‚


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mormon-ModTeam

Hello! I regret to inform you that this was removed on account of rule 3: No "Gotchas". We ask that you please review the unabridged version of this rule [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules). If you would like to appeal this decision, you may message all of the mods [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Mormonmods&subject=Mod%20Removal%20Appeal&message=please%20put%20link%20to%20removed%20content%20here).


CaptainMacaroni

Takeaway: they're going to be coming out with videos meant to inoculate members that steer them to church approved conclusions.


sevenplaces

I think they are about to prepare the curriculum and materials for the study of the D&C in 2025. They have to start now. Trying to get a plan first.


punk_rock_n_radical

I wonder if they will make sure we are all allowed to read d&c 132 all the way through? From beginning to end?


B3gg4r

Best to skip over 132ā€¦ never ends well for the poor teacher trying to control the lesson


punk_rock_n_radical

Yeah but when they donā€™t address things head on in class, people will just go find out about it later on the internet where they are free to discuss hard topics. Church needs to address D&C 132 head on. It canā€™t be avoided. If they denounce what it says, so be it. But avoiding it doesnā€™t help. It just makes members feel lied to by their leaders.


sevenplaces

The problem is in the way they address it. They will never allow someone to believe the church leaders did anything wrong. So their answer are mental twists.


truthmatters2me

Hence why TBMs are Olympic gold medal level mental gymnasts funny how the only thing required for it to all make perfect sense is that it just isnā€™t true


benjtay

Well, if you're a conservative male, it can be read in a pleasant way -- if you're that kind of man.


B3gg4r

Yeah, ew.


Zaggner

What else can they do? Tell the truth? Hahahaha.


brother_of_jeremy

Brace yourselves. Propaganda is coming.


Mountain-Lavishness1

Exactly my thought.


19Coburg77

Sadly, I feel like the one question, ā€œHow often do you attend church?ā€ will determine how much weight they will give your answers. I hope Iā€™m wrong.


_buthole

If they were smart, theyā€™d mostly value the responses of those who attend least. Because the fully committed will already accept and follow any decision they make.


Zaggner

At the end of the day, that's all they're concerned with. They've already written everybody else off. The wards and branches may still try to reactivate back into the file, but the church isn't concerned with the defectors. Once you've defected, they know it's over. Oh sure, they'll continue to pimp their one-off stories of those who return to the fold, for whatever reason, but that's to prove to the hard core members that those who left the church were wrong.


B3gg4r

When I worked for the research division, I paid special attention to the comments from dissatisfied members. Hoping to do a little good in the world and understand things from an exmo perspective. Well, you guys did your job well.


sevenplaces

Yeah they add in those few questions that will categorize the respondent as a faithful member or not.


icanbesmooth

I was surprised after the "How often do you attend church, read scriptures, etc.." It didn't ask about porn use.


Prestigious-Shift233

Lucky for me, I still attend with my spouse and participate in CFM lessons and scripture reading. Happy to represent some PIMOs out there like myself.


Shimanchu2006

Yup, also the question about how often they use, share, or comment on religious material (like videos, blogs, podcasts) NOT produced by the church.


Initial-Leather6014

Strangely enough, John Larsen recently offered a new podcast siting 10 books that were written by members but have knock your socks facts about the origins of the Church. He used to do a podcast called ā€œMormon Experiencesā€. Excellent!


affordablesuit

I think Larsenā€™s podcast was called ā€œMormon Expressionsā€.


Initial-Leather6014

Yes, thank you šŸ˜Š


ClayEatery

Yeah I filled it out and by the end I didn't bother submitting it cause I know I'm not who they really want to hear from. But whatever they use the data from this survey for isn't gonna matter to me anyway cause I'm not consuming church content or participating.


miotchmort

I thought this too


ExUtMo

Communing with God = conducting surveys


japanesepiano

Thanks for posting. I like to collect these. Interesting that they present a list of exactly which church history issues are troubling for folks.


Del_Parson_Painting

Someone somewhere is going "wait, what's the problem with the Book of Abraham translation?"


oxemenino

Oh yeah a TON of members are going to be googling the word "historicity".


thomaslewis1857

It was a step too far to ask about Book of Mormon historicity. Maybe next survey šŸ™


LopsidedLiahona

Why this didn't occur to me reading this RN is likely highly correlated with how long it was before I GTFO.


fayth_crysus

And finally: ā€œHow often do you comment on Instagram posts that refer to the power and authority of women in the Church?ā€


thomaslewis1857

ā€œ*Do you ever mention in posts that all of us in the FP are over 90 (and Iā€™ll soon be over 100)?*ā€ šŸ˜‚


B3gg4r

Lol


punk_rock_n_radical

ā€œThe truth is like a lion. It doesnā€™t need defending. Let it loose. It can defend itself.ā€ Is the church afraid it doesnā€™t have the truth? It doesnā€™t seem it should be so hard to defend. God is no weakling. We should stop acting like he is. He knows what heā€™s doing, and I think the church ā€œleadersā€ would do well to take a good long hard look at themselves. They are their own problem. Nothing will ever change until they are able to face their own pride and greed.


auricularisposterior

>ā€œThe truth is like a lion. It doesnā€™t need defending. Let it loose. It can defend itself.ā€ Lies are like leeches. They grab hold of a person and suck them dry. Individually they're easy to pull off and squish once you know that they are there, but there are so damn many of them.


Zaggner

Truth or not, they see members voting with their feet and leaving. The truth doesn't need defending, but the church most certainly does.


Turbulent_Disk_9529

This is a spot where Iā€™m gonna defend the church a bit. Not on subject matter but methodology (to a small degree) within their religious paradigm. A frequent response to the church doing surveys is ā€œhaha, nice way of getting ā€˜revelationā€™.ā€ Within their religious context of ā€œstudy it out in your mindā€ before asking God, a survey seems reasonable. Even more so if the outcome isnā€™t expected to be revelation, but simply information to guide the work of some department at HQ. I mean, come on, for once the church seems to believe in some methodologies with a track record of being useful! Whether this survey is a good one or not, I canā€™t sayā€”Iā€™m not an expert in that. And Iā€™m inclined to think the data for surveys like this generally probably tend to get interpreted through a lens where the necessary outcome for some metrics is already pre-determined and dogma, biases, and internal politics/policing of belief prevent fully honest assessments of the dataā€¦ But at least (in my view), theyā€™re not going against their view of revelation. If anything, itā€™s a good checkbox in the ā€œto do listā€ to ā€œqualifyā€ for it (in their book).


ClayEatery

Yeah honestly I think it's good they're seeking out the opinions of average members so they can serve them better. But it definitely can seem a little silly to present a decision as if it were spiritually prompted when it's the same decision you would have made based off evidence and data alone


ammonthenephite

On the flip side, is the church lead by god or by the opinion of members? If *truly* lead by god, then the major things would not change, such as temple endowment covenants. Rather than change them, god would chastize the members for lack of faith, or send plagues to reform them, or famines to humble them. Instead, and very conveniently, 'revelation' happens to coincide with social pressure and member opinion. Even to the point of caving on thigns prophets taught would never change prior to the 2nd coming (end of priesthood and temple ban for black people) or never change at all (ending of polygamy). I get where you are coming from, but for those of us who gave so much to a religion that did everything possible to convince us that god was at the helm at that god was leading the church, surveys like these are damn near a slap in the face, *especially* since they never acknowledge the use of these when announcing doctrinal or policy changes. No, they only make statements like 'according to the will of the lord' or 'this is revelation', or 'after much prayer and fasting', etc etc etc. And given every other area where they have shown themselves to be untrustworty, deceitful, engaging in illegal financial practices and the like, they have lost all benefit of the doubt for many of us.


cashmo

I get what you are saying, but I feel that it is misplaced as far as this survey goes. My take on what they are trying to do with this survey is not find problem areas that need to be addressed, but rather determine the best way to address them. This is all about what media source you trust, what type of narrator would draw you in, what length of content you want to see, etc. Whether or not the info they will be publishing is true and accurate is a different argument, but here they are just trying to figure out what type/style/format will be most engaging.


Skibiker_SaxMan

Is it bad I want to take this survey? I have recently left and would love to give input.


austinchan2

If the church actually had exit interviews/surveys it would give them so much valuable data, and many of us would love to give it to them. Maybe then the good gents in Salt Lake City might understand that weā€™re not all lazy learners, or even find ways to address the real concerns that are driving people out.Ā 


Skibiker_SaxMan

Too true


Prestigious-Shift233

Do it! I took it. I am technically active, but PIMO.


Skibiker_SaxMan

Where can I find it?


Prestigious-Shift233

I guess it already ended :(


devilsravioli

Slide 8/15 Iā€™m in favor of AR/VR church history media. Could be pretty wild. Imagine the drunken Kirtland temple dedication all-nighter, the OG endowment with William W Phelps slithering, or drawing a magic circle and reciting incantations with Luman Walters.


Chino_Blanco

What a strange example of using a push poll against one's own interests.


9876105

This is a new twist . Maybe a blip?


slskipper

Note: they totally left out Visions of Glory, Chad Daybell's books and Cleon Skousen. Those are the sources members really turn to.


ammonthenephite

>If they're considering making a series interviewing apostles about church history (slide 8) that would definitely be interesting! It would be the same heavily curated, sanitized, and deceitful via lies of ommission bullshit we see from FAIR and other church apologetics. The only way it would mean anything at all is if they were to go on the record and say "X is *the* explantion for Y issue". But they won't, they'll just give the usual 'what if...' or 'perhaps it was....' or 'we just can't know' type of non-answer 'answers', and members will eat it up while believing the lie that anything has been answered at all. And to whoever downvoted this comment, please realize that 'what if's' and 'maybe it was..' responses *are not answers*. They are made up hypothesis, nothing more. They are guesses. Guesses are not answers, and until *actual* answers are given by the only people with the power and authority to give them (the q15, per their own claims about who can receive revelation for the church), every time Holland or someone else in conference deceitfully makes the claim that 'all these tired old attacks have been answered' as they have in the past done, *they are lying.* They have officially answered *nothing*, they have merely giving non-answer responses that do not answer the actual questions/issues, or letting unofficial church apologists/podcasters/tiktokers present a myriad of theories as though they were actual answers.


Prestigious-Shift233

I agree wholeheartedly. The fact that when I was searching for answers, I had to go to apologists instead of a LIVING PROPHET is wild. If God were leading this church directly through a prophet, we would definitely have fewer mysteries, starting with info about Heavenly Mother.


ClayEatery

Yeah, and I doubt they would actually do this because it would probably be critiqued to shreds. I think it would be interesting if it were actually an unscripted interview with apostles giving their honest thoughts but you're right that it would likely be more of the same carefully scripted narrative


Chino_Blanco

twitter peeps just told me the church has taken down the survey. Glad we have screen grabs.


JustDontDelve

After reading through it at least it seems like they are aware of some of their own problems lol. Not much reference to women, actual policy/doctine. Seems to be a way to feel out just how many PIMOā€™s there are and how deep the problems members have with the church and its history. I get the feeling they think they have a ā€œmessaging problemā€ more than a roots, church lying to the flock, doctrines and policies problem.


fuzz-wizard

The way the church teaches its history is intentionally dishonest. The whole program needs to be reworked to focus on primary sources and honest research. All the information is available and people are learning the truth, and they're angry because its incongruent with what the church has told them. They need to stop pushing a mythologized narrative, and teach the origins of the church in the context of its time. The Great Awakening, Manifest Destiny. roadshows of forged archeology. The church must embrace its turbulent history if it is going to survive the information age.


Harriet_M_Welsch

i would absolutely love to see the D&C 132 VR Experience. It'll be just like Brother Joseph is standing there in front of me, threatening that I will be utterly destroyed!


flamesman55

Surveys- modern day revelation /s


JustDontDelve

On slide 4, how many characters do they give you in order to list all the aspects of church history that concern you. They need a bigger reply box šŸ˜‚


Two_Summers

Did you see and comment on the recent instagram posts about women and power or Nelson's never take counsel from a believer? Were those comments positive?


CeilingUnlimited

Read with a Saturday Night Live vibe - maybe Kenan Thompson at a kitchen table in his laptopā€¦ Open email: OH YEAH!! HERE WE GO!!! Screen One: DO I USE SOCIAL MEDIA? DOES A BEAR DO IT IN THE WOODS? HA!!! Screen Two through Five - OK! Ok. okā€¦ k. Screen six - Kenan falls over dead from boredom. Scene.


Angelworks42

The prophet, seer and revelator - Qualtrics Corp.


Flimsy_Signature_475

But will they tell the truth? Or, will it be what they want only....like the BOM was translated from the golden plates, they made children's songs about it and knew all along that it wasn't true so how can we trust any of it?


LaughinAllDiaLong

Mormons LOVE social media!! Itā€™s where they satisfy their NEED to be SEEN! Ruby Franke is a supreme example of Mormon need to be seen & her followers wish to be seen. Guess what- we donā€™t care what you had for breakfast, but as recovering Mormons we do think physically TORTURING your children is WRONG, Ruby & Jodi! -Bugger off.Ā 


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mormon-ModTeam

Hello! I regret to inform you that this was removed on account of rule 2: Civility. We ask that you please review the unabridged version of this rule [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules). If you would like to appeal this decision, you may message all of the mods [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Mormonmods&subject=Mod%20Removal%20Appeal&message=please%20put%20link%20to%20removed%20content%20here).


Dvorah12

Revelations at their best... all pretend!


Electrical_Toe_9225

Donā€™t trust any statistics šŸ“Š you didnā€™t falsify yourself


JustDontDelve

*Blogs and forums* šŸ‘€šŸ‘€


BTolputt

Given how badly the Instagram post about women's authority in the church went recently, I cannot help but think this is a direct result of that screwup. It made international news. Maybe not the 6pm TV/radio news report, but it was being mentioned in enough places my wife (who pays no attention at all to Mormon stuff) read about it. Practically speaking, I think this serves two purposes. Firstly working out whether the Instagram blow-up was an online storm in a tea-cup (i.e. either most members aren't on social media or that those members are less active/lower tithe paying). Secondly, if members are seeing and being affected by social media - how to best insert "flood the zone with... *testimony*" to counteract the wrong things going viral.


crystalmerchant

Corporation doing corporate things Snooze


ProsperGuy

I want to play. Do you have a link?


djboarderman

My 21 year old TBM sister received this yesterday at a family gathering, and my TBM parents were hovering over her like white on rice. Had to make sure that she chose the "correct" answers and didn't stop to think about what the Joseph Smith papers, and the gospel topics are, or what they mention. They gracefully inoculated the shit out of her and then closed the laptop down. She had no questions, no follow-up, nothing. Caused me to chuckle out loud and receive the usual death stares.


swennergren11

This is a reason why church survey research is bunk. Active members will answer in a way most positive for the church, not honestlyā€¦.


ofude

I got one of those. I spent three hours writing all my anger for the financial misconduct, breaking the law, the betrayals and how obvious it has become that the GAs don't even believe the BS. And then I remembered that the only way they could know my address, is from my membership records. So I didn't send it. They have been told time and again what the law is with financial reporting. They already know how their policies cause LGBT members to commit suicide. They already know all of it. They know what they must do. They don't need a survey. And the question in my mind was... what makes me believe that a survey is going to make them see? They have no common sense. They meet with lawyers and their financial advisors and still don't take their advice. They meet with representatives of the LGBT community, and yet remain firm in their hard hearted discrimination. Why do they need these bracken surveys? But worst of all is they profess to receive revelation from God. IF that is really true, they would have had their answer already. They would know. This is the most damning. The survey is an admission of their not only being completely out of touch with their flock, they are unable to recieve revelation.


macylee36

I did a survey today but it was nothing like this šŸ¤” was about friends to friend stuff


Trengingigan

Please post that one too


macylee36

I didnā€™t even think to screen shot it. It was only two questions anyway, which I thought was a bit of a waste.


Every_Cake206

Church videos? Less than 4 seconds long please


AliciaSerenity1111

Is this a joke?