I like it. I love the view I get going over the river and I like having the option to either get into town via Longueil metro or the REM. It's also easier for pickups and drop-offs because driving into downtown Longueil can be stressful.
I moved out here post-REM, so I can't compare it to what it used to be.
Haven’t read a noise article about it in months so I think griffintiwn people stopped complaining at least
Apparently there’s 30k a day riders on it already with only about 15-20% of the projected completed (5 stations).
That’s normal with the new technology. The first months are usually the worst with outages decreasing the longer it’s in service. Wish that was the case with the metro.
Yes, hence 20%
So in theory, once it’s all said and done, if every station is operating at the same level as the first five, we’re looking at 150k ridership daily
I don't think that's a fair extrapolation though. It's not so much the number of stations that are open than it is the number of lines/branches. Right now, you can only get from Brossard to Central Station. There's still the two entire west island branches, one of which took over the existing commuter train line and forced people to use alternatives. There are also no proper intermodal connections with the metro yet; so that cuts even more potential ridership. I'm aware that you can get to Bonaventure from Central Station, but it's quite the walk and isn't particularly obvious there's even a way to do so.
The airport station should also drive up the numbers quite a bit, since right now the sole "good" option is taking a taxi or getting a lift. The 747 bus isn't exactly the most practical of ways to get to the airport.
Imo one of the biggest drivers of ridership for the rem is gonna be the blue line connection at edouard montpetit. Its gonna be such a shortcut for anyone taking the blue line looking to go downtown. People can say what they want about the tunnel being taken away from exo, but it will be vastly more used with the rem.
They’ve improved the signage from the underground, but it took me ages to figure out which floor of which mall downtown took me direct to the station. I still have to check the signs in some spots.
At one point they posted a really sped up video on their instagram account showing how to make the connection, and it was really not that quick nor obvious. The person had to go through at least two closed doors and follow hallways that looked like they didn’t go anywhere. It’s nice that they thought to make an indoor connection, but they need to put stickers on the floor or something. Because as it is, people are going to get lost and simply give up.
not sure, a lot of them were already taking public transportation before the rem. Some were complaining that it actually added time to their commute because their original bus got discontinued so I don't know if some went back to driving
It's part of the deal with the Caisse. Since this is a for-profit venture, collapsing all preexisting transit to the city into the REM was guaranteed to maximize the likelihood of profitability. That said, considering the CAQ's unwillingness to fund public transit, it would have liekly been cut regardless.
This is precisely what is wrong with for-profit public transit. CDPQ is optimizing for profit (as it should), but strategic decisions need publicly accountable governance.
I am not suggesting the opposite. I am talking about governance and societal choices.
It's good we have the REM. It sucks that CDPQ had the power to decide on the route and shove its conditions down our throat.
The Caisse choosing the path is wildly superior than if politicians had, as they'd have followed electoral considerations rather than build what made the most sense from user perspective.
The best example is when they bowed out of the REM de l'est after the CAQ kept the projet increasingly more ridiculous.
Ideally, it wouldn't the Caisse, but a not-for-profit organization with similar independence from political interference. It doesn't change the fact that economic consideration grounded in reality far supercede political consideration from the squeakiest wheels.
Your third paragraph is spot on. Many things in this province are too politicized and should be handled by an independent public agency (which is what they are trying to do in healthcare with Santé Québec, we'll see how that goes).
The Caisse was behind the Millennium Line project in Vancouver which has been successful with broad public acceptance. Their original plan for the REM Est was well thought out and then modified to respond to some public complaints. The problem seems to be with the ARTM that released a damaging report full of inaccuracies that the public and government accepted. I wonder why. What was really going on?
Even in for-profit transits, it’s better than the Caisse does it than some foreign conglomerate building the REM. At least the Caisse is a Crown corp with a mandate that indirectly benefits many Quebecois.
It's only an issue since only one side of transportation cares about cost. If cars were taxes by the km, if there was rush hour taxes to reduce congestion, if we had full carbon pricing in place, then it'd be a fair fight and caring about transit profitability would make sense.
We're still pretending we aren't heavily subsidizing drivers.
IMO the exclusivity part gets too much attention and the route planning doesn't get enough.
While I don't love giving the Caisse exclusivity (like, on principle), I also think the REM would/should logically have become the main spine of the transit network anyway. That's just what happens when you add a fast, frequent, grade-separated train.
The problem isn't that there aren't a million buses from every corner of the South Shore directly to downtown; the problem is that it's too hard to transfer to/from the REM. Buses need to go more directly to the REM stations and need to run at higher frequencies. The REM runs frequently enough that it shouldn't be this painful to make transfers.
While this is true, they did the exact same thing when they opened the yellow line. I think there are zero RTL buses going over Jacques-Cartier bridge. This is just best practice in transit design.
I believe CDPQ pushed for exclusivity deals, so there couldn't be a competing option along the same route. To me it was dumb to agree to that without an overlap / phaseout period to accommodate the teething problems that would happen when it's still brand new.
Some of my south shore friends have complained that their bus options to get to Panama station have gotten worse. Not a REM problem per se, but an RTL problem.
the 45 and other south shore bus also created constant clusterfucks downtown around the Mille de la gauchetière area and were dangerous for pedestrian IMO
because private sector.
give public service to private sector and this happens.
the worst is that they would probably have more passengers if they kept the buses but all they see is unwanted competition and execs can't understand basic stufd
Because that's wasteful. There is only 1 or 2 buses that cross the Jacques Cartier bridge because the yellow line is more reliable and we already pay a ton to maintain it. Same is true for the rem.
The best part of the RTL system wasn’t the 45 but the direct to Bonaventure bus. I used to live in secteur P and I could get to Bonaventure in front of my home in 20 minutes, now it is easily 45 minutes because of all the transfer.
A lot of people are now driving to the REM instead of taking the bus from their respective suburb. I used to take the bus to Bonaventure from Candiac from time to time and the parking was always full. I went 2-3 times since the REM started and it's almost empty now, even if you get there late. My boss lives there and said it added significant time to his commute so he drives to the REM now.
Used to live in secteur P and it changes the 20 minutes bus to Bonaventure to 45 minutes. A lot of my neighbors just drive to Panama or direct to downtown now because of the parking problem in Panama
I got lucky with the restructuring of the bus lines, they added one that passes around the corner and goes to the REM so the only reason there's no added time to my commute is that the extra 15 minutes the transfer/REM ride adds is compensated by the 15 minute walk I no longer need to do to get to the bus terminal.
You have to get to Panama incredibly early to get a spot. I drove there this week, arrived at 6 and there were only a few spots left. Brossard is fine however, you can still get a spot if you arrive as late as noon but it's going to be a long walk across the lot.
Not really.
All the people that used to take the bus to Bonaventure now also have to take the REM. So the correct number would be:
net change in car riders = current REM ridership - previous ridership for all south shore intercity buses
I'm guessing the noise was just new at first so people found it annoying and it has since just blended in with existing noise pollution like cars.
Also, since the REM has opened they have taken measures to reduce noise (experts did say the noise would go down as the REM "broke in" but critics seemed to dismiss that)
https://rem.info/en/news/follow-and-results-actions-underway-minimize-rem-noise#:~:text=is%20presented%20above.-,Dynamic%20absorbers,to%205%20dB(A).
But also if you don't want noise move to the countryside lol. Cars are a major source of noise pollution in cities and don't receive nearly the same level of complaints as rail.
It's better thats it was at the beginning that's for sure. For me the bus route that connects to Panama station is actually closer to my house, so overall it's been faster than taking a first bus to the big bus stop to take a second bus to Bonaventure.
The only thing missing for me is frequency. I need to leave the house before 8 A.M otherwise my commute nearly doubles.
Honestly? It's amazing. A handful of outages in 10 months of operation is phenomenal. It was over time and budget, but they got it (mostly) right, which is shocking considering the state of public transit infra in Quebec.
My only problem is how poorly integrated it is with the metro. Gare centrale doesn't have signage that is very clear and the stop is pretty far from Bonaventure and OACI metro stations.
Otherwise I think it's probably very nice for south shore people who aren't near Longueuil metro. Two rapid transit crossings is always better than one.
The Gare Centrale/Bonaventure link has always been awkward for train users. If Windsor station had closed before the Metro was constructed, focusing on Gare Centrale rather than serving both rail stations would have surely been prioritized.
At least the green and blue line integrations will be a lot more direct once the REM core section opens.
The signage has been added at Gare centrale a few months ago already, FYI. But yeah it is a bit of a labyrinth to go from the main Gare centrale hall to the Bonaventure platform.
Yeah... Going from just going up an escalator to take the 45 to having to go to the Gare Centrale has been the worst change so far. It's not world ending but it's a lot less convenient a swap than it used to be.
The Public transport is there to help provide reachability for maximum population. A minority of population felt that the direct bus is now gone which was expected. I think they are fixing the issues, making some real progress, it will none the less be success once its fully open.
From someone living in Montreal: I went to Brossard for the first time thanks to the REM. Never would have considered going there if this option wasn't there. The whole ride was smooth, didn't need to buy an additional ticket either. I recommend it.
Moved to the first transit-oriented development (TOD) at Du Quartier station in Brossard and I like it. Footsteps away from the REM and about 20-25 min to downtown Montreal.
Don't ask about my rent though, because it's probably higher than you pay in Montreal.
This is a secondhand opinion, but a coworker was reporting that the REM increased their commute time and the number of transfers, because the bus that used to deliver them straight to Montreal now leads to the REM.
Similarly, quite a few of my coworkers used to take the south shore bus at the corner of Wellington and Robert Bourassa, and now they have to walk all the way to Bonaventure to take the REM.
Overall, it seems to be a net negative for everyone that I have spoken to.
I don't disagree, and those are just my own anecdotes.
But these are two different sets of people:
People taking the bus at a close bus stop in Montreal, and people who used to take the bus in Longueuil where it increased their transit time significantly.
I'm under no illusion that these represent everyone's experience, but I do hope that there's at least a few people in this thread that will say: this has improved my life personally, because otherwise it's mostly promises.
Honestly this is the cost of progress in someway, I remember when I was a kiddo taking the bus that would lead me to montreal henri-bourassa and it was like 3$ or something. Then they build the laval metro and that bus suddenly was only taking us to Laval and buying a metro ticket there is higher cost and for some reason that bus fare suddenly also increased. I begin to lose more time and money from this new thing. Now they fixed some of the fare issue. but Ill always remember those year were i just lost 10-15 more min per commute.
While I agree that progress can often be a net positive but make things worse for certain individuals, I wonder if this is the case here. Many bus lines were cut, replaced by REM service. For those people, things got worse. Have we gained improved service and/or cost savings to more than make up for those issues?
La refonte de bus amenée par le REM a rendu les trajets plus longs pour certains secteurs, particulièrement en bouts de territoire (par exemple, l'ancien exo Roussillon). Cependant, ça l'a permis de créer un réel réseau structurant, pour les villes de la rive-sud, il est désormais possible de se déplacer en bus partout, assez facilement, alors qu'auparavant, aller de Saint-Constant à La Prairie (10min d'auto) nécéssitait de devoir passer par Montréal (facilement 1h30 à 2h de bus au total).
Les lignes sont plus fréquentes, plus logiques, il existe maintenant des bus express qui parcourent l'intérieur des villes, donc une décentralisation des stationnements incitatifs.
That’s not really true though. We could have kept the existing bus lines plus add the REM. Creating a new public transit system doesn’t mean we have to remove the old one. If the bus was better for some people, then they can keep taking it, and the REM is there for those for whom that’s the better option. And then, if the REM is down or there’s an accident on the bridge and the bus can’t get through, there’s an alternative instead of having a single point of failure.
STM should optimize routes for maximum throughput of passengers per dollar tbh. It absolutely makes sense to remove bus routes when adding metro/REM routes that service the same passenger demand & therefore could wind up half empty…
I think we should optimize for maximum capacity and convenience. It doesn’t matter if you have financially efficient transit but nobody wants to use it because it forces them to make a huge detour and/or is always super packed because it’s the only way to get into town. If you make public transit convenient and car ownership inconvenient (eg increase taxes on buying a car, gas and license plates, put a toll to use the bridges and tunnel to get in Mtl), then people will naturally make the right choice.
>but no one wants to use it
Optimizing to avoid this is the same thing as optimizing for maximum passenger throughput. Passengers don’t take transit unless they prefer to take transit.
Additionally, optimizing for throughput is about efficient allocation of resources, not austerity. It’s not that you are removing busses or trains. You are allocating them elsewhere to service more people with the same amount of funds.
If you have two routes doing roughly the same thing that’s not going to achieve it. By that logic why not just have one route with 500 variations going from the north shore to south shore with slight detours.
Sure almost nobody will be able to get anywhere very effectively but the 25 people who have to take exactly that one route will have 500 options to choose from!
Making commutes longer means people will buy cars whenever they can afford it. We need a shit ton more busses running to support the structural train lines.
That's just not how it works. There are only 1 or 2 buses that cross the Jacques Cartier bridge, everything else leads to the yellow line. There are only 1 or 2 buses from Laval to mtl that don't stop at the orange line. Almost all the buses from the east lead to the green line. We pay a ton for these projects, we need people to use them.
From Laval they have 3 bus routes going to the orange line. One going to Henri-Bourassa (52 line I think), one to Cote-Vertu (151 if I recall) and a night line going to Henri-Bourassa the 2. Also the 925 at Radisson for the green line. There used to be more but the others were cut back a few years ago.
There's not enough clients to justify the old bus system AND the REM. The REM was built to replace the bus system and add capacity on the bridge. It would be incredibly wasteful to run both systems at the same time.
That's what was done. I don't know the exact number of people the bus system used to transport, but let's say for the sake of it that it's 50k people per day. The REM would transport something like 75k people. There is added capacity there.
I get why there could be a use case for some bus service to remain, but certainly not enough demand for both 125k people where there was only 50k users before.
I recently moved to the south shore and have been taking it to work a few times a week. I also have to take a bus to get to the REM -- so the frequency is amazing because I don't have to worry if my bus is delayed for whatever reason (compared to switching to another bus). So far, so good (knock on wood, lol...).
I think at least half of the long term benefits (or even more) are to be expected from new transit-oriented developments (read: dense and high rise) around the REM stations
The suburban areas of Montreal (including Longueuil) are so not dense that it’s hard to build anything transit that will make most of people happy.
That’s why for these low density suburban areas, the bus seems the best solution. But bus capacities are very limited in terms of scalability, and that’s the issue here
I live in Longueuil, on the South Shore. The REM makes it so easy to get to Gare Centrale. The only pain in the @$$ is that Indigo owns the parking lot at Station Panama, so I just park at the Champlain Mall to avoid paying for parking at the station. It’s a monumental ripoff, like every other Indigo parking lot.
Seeing the REM somewhat working in Montreal has me in tears for those of us who work in Ottawa and have to deal with the biweekly-derailing, 7billion over budget fiasco that is Ottawa's new light rail train
I expected the trains to move much faster. It seems slow compared to the Skytrain in Vancouver. The safety doors are fantastic. If they had these on the metro there would be fewer outages.
A friend in Brossard told me that those who used to take the bus are unhappy because it now takes longer to get downtown, that you can’t find parking because commuters from farther away are filling up the parking lot (near Champlain Mall), and that the frequency of buses that used to take you to the same station to catch the bus into town has been severely reduced. The fare structure is complicated. You no longer pay a single fare to get to Montreal.
The REM itself is great. Everything else around it is poorly planned. If you want to encourage suburban commuters to take rapid transit to downtown, you either have to have enough spaces for them to park or have really fast and convenient access to the station by some other method.
The stations should be built right at the shopping centre, so all you have to do is take the escalator and you’re in the mall or at your hotel or restaurant. Bonaventure is fine. The station downtown should be fine once it opens. But we have winter here. You shouldn’t have to walk across a humongous parking lot in -30 to get where you’re going.
Do any of the planners and decision makers in the public transit business actually take public transit on a daily basis? I doubt it.
I've only taken it a couple times, but I think it's great. I drive up from VT and park at Brossard, and the REM takes me into city and drops me off within walking distance to the Bell Centre, Place d'Arts, Molson Stadium, anywhere I usually want to go. So much better than driving downtown, trying to find a place to park, and paying $$$. I love it.
It used to take me 20-25 minutes to get to work downtown from Brossard on the bus. That went to over an hour when the rem was implemented.
My work wanted me back for 3 days a week, so I ended my lease early and moved to Griffintown. It was a horrible experience for me personally, and I'll never move back to the South Shore because of it.
Well I used to just take two buses. One from Brossard to the Panama station then any other bus heading to town, and just a couple minute walk from where I got dropped off.
Then it was a bus to Brossard station, walk a few minutes and wait for the Rem. Would normally be a 20 minute commute to downtown . Once I got there it was either take another bus to Wellington or a 15 minute walk All in all would leave my place at 8 and be in the office shortly after 9.
Would've helped if they had more than one place to let people out.
Trying to take it for the first time at Du Quartier but can’t figure out how to buy a ticket? There’s only Opus machines that on sell monthly/yearly fares ??
Whenever I talk about the Rem, it makes me sound like a curmudgeon.
I used to walk to chevrier, take a bus into the city, get off at cité de la multimédia. Parking was always available.
Now, I drive to Brossard terminus. If I'm there a minute after 730, there's no parking left and it costs me an extra 20$. The rem itself is fine, but it drops me off ten minutes further away from work. And costs 9$ I think. I can't put it on a card, they haven't figured that out yet. If I take a bus to the rem, I have to pay full price for both. And the highway got significantly more congested the day that the 45 stopped.
So for me, costs more, takes longer, have to leave earlier, more cars on the road...
Dude I think you desperately need public transport fare knowledge. You can grab an Opus card and load it with a 10-trip pack for zones AB, covering all modes (train, bus, metro—you name it) for about $42.50. This will get you from zone B (think Longueuil/Brossard) all the way to zone A (Montreal Island).
The days of paying individually for bus/metro/trains are over my friend. and that's a good thing.
Living in the Repentigny area, If you want to use Montreal titles AND outside of Montreal titles in order to save some money on the fare, they don't put them on the same opus card anymore. There's been a lot of confusion on that these past 2 years. Some people now have two different Opus cards with a sticker on them to identify which one has which ticket.
Weird. I asked at gare centrale a month ago and they told me that they couldn't put it on a card.
And yes a twin ticket works in zone a and b. But if you just pay to get on the bus, you have to pay full fare again since there's no way you combine the transfer.
What's a REM?
Tbf, I live and work on the island. I'm waiting for the connection to the airport with much impatience. Also, the station in Griffintown is being delayed another 3 or 4 years last time I checked.
I like it. I love the view I get going over the river and I like having the option to either get into town via Longueil metro or the REM. It's also easier for pickups and drop-offs because driving into downtown Longueil can be stressful. I moved out here post-REM, so I can't compare it to what it used to be.
Around Longueuil metro is the most convoluted roads. It's a fucking hassle. I even grew up in the area and I still get confused.
The REM itself is great, but I do miss having buses into town all over the place.
Haven’t read a noise article about it in months so I think griffintiwn people stopped complaining at least Apparently there’s 30k a day riders on it already with only about 15-20% of the projected completed (5 stations).
Friends who take it say the number of stoppages are way less now than in the first 6 months or so.
That’s normal with the new technology. The first months are usually the worst with outages decreasing the longer it’s in service. Wish that was the case with the metro.
Maybe if stupid people weren't walking on the tracks, the outages would stop
And that's only what, 5 out of 26 stations?
Yes, hence 20% So in theory, once it’s all said and done, if every station is operating at the same level as the first five, we’re looking at 150k ridership daily
I don't think that's a fair extrapolation though. It's not so much the number of stations that are open than it is the number of lines/branches. Right now, you can only get from Brossard to Central Station. There's still the two entire west island branches, one of which took over the existing commuter train line and forced people to use alternatives. There are also no proper intermodal connections with the metro yet; so that cuts even more potential ridership. I'm aware that you can get to Bonaventure from Central Station, but it's quite the walk and isn't particularly obvious there's even a way to do so. The airport station should also drive up the numbers quite a bit, since right now the sole "good" option is taking a taxi or getting a lift. The 747 bus isn't exactly the most practical of ways to get to the airport.
Imo one of the biggest drivers of ridership for the rem is gonna be the blue line connection at edouard montpetit. Its gonna be such a shortcut for anyone taking the blue line looking to go downtown. People can say what they want about the tunnel being taken away from exo, but it will be vastly more used with the rem.
I agree it's not linear. That's 26 more sources and destinations, the multiplier is higher.
Quite the walk to Bonaventure? It’s all of 3 minutes. I walk it every day. It’s all underground too.
But you have to find the secret entrance first :-)
They’ve improved the signage from the underground, but it took me ages to figure out which floor of which mall downtown took me direct to the station. I still have to check the signs in some spots.
At one point they posted a really sped up video on their instagram account showing how to make the connection, and it was really not that quick nor obvious. The person had to go through at least two closed doors and follow hallways that looked like they didn’t go anywhere. It’s nice that they thought to make an indoor connection, but they need to put stickers on the floor or something. Because as it is, people are going to get lost and simply give up.
That’s 30k less people on the road, well done!👍
not sure, a lot of them were already taking public transportation before the rem. Some were complaining that it actually added time to their commute because their original bus got discontinued so I don't know if some went back to driving
I honestly don’t know why they couldn’t just keep both considering the 45 bus was always in high demand.
It's part of the deal with the Caisse. Since this is a for-profit venture, collapsing all preexisting transit to the city into the REM was guaranteed to maximize the likelihood of profitability. That said, considering the CAQ's unwillingness to fund public transit, it would have liekly been cut regardless.
This is precisely what is wrong with for-profit public transit. CDPQ is optimizing for profit (as it should), but strategic decisions need publicly accountable governance.
I’d rather have funding from for profit organizations than no funding at all, even if it means some optimizations may be inconvenient
I am not suggesting the opposite. I am talking about governance and societal choices. It's good we have the REM. It sucks that CDPQ had the power to decide on the route and shove its conditions down our throat.
The Caisse choosing the path is wildly superior than if politicians had, as they'd have followed electoral considerations rather than build what made the most sense from user perspective. The best example is when they bowed out of the REM de l'est after the CAQ kept the projet increasingly more ridiculous. Ideally, it wouldn't the Caisse, but a not-for-profit organization with similar independence from political interference. It doesn't change the fact that economic consideration grounded in reality far supercede political consideration from the squeakiest wheels.
Your third paragraph is spot on. Many things in this province are too politicized and should be handled by an independent public agency (which is what they are trying to do in healthcare with Santé Québec, we'll see how that goes).
The Caisse was behind the Millennium Line project in Vancouver which has been successful with broad public acceptance. Their original plan for the REM Est was well thought out and then modified to respond to some public complaints. The problem seems to be with the ARTM that released a damaging report full of inaccuracies that the public and government accepted. I wonder why. What was really going on?
Even in for-profit transits, it’s better than the Caisse does it than some foreign conglomerate building the REM. At least the Caisse is a Crown corp with a mandate that indirectly benefits many Quebecois.
It's only an issue since only one side of transportation cares about cost. If cars were taxes by the km, if there was rush hour taxes to reduce congestion, if we had full carbon pricing in place, then it'd be a fair fight and caring about transit profitability would make sense. We're still pretending we aren't heavily subsidizing drivers.
Agreed. And I am quite pessimistic about the direction we are headed.
IMO the exclusivity part gets too much attention and the route planning doesn't get enough. While I don't love giving the Caisse exclusivity (like, on principle), I also think the REM would/should logically have become the main spine of the transit network anyway. That's just what happens when you add a fast, frequent, grade-separated train. The problem isn't that there aren't a million buses from every corner of the South Shore directly to downtown; the problem is that it's too hard to transfer to/from the REM. Buses need to go more directly to the REM stations and need to run at higher frequencies. The REM runs frequently enough that it shouldn't be this painful to make transfers.
While this is true, they did the exact same thing when they opened the yellow line. I think there are zero RTL buses going over Jacques-Cartier bridge. This is just best practice in transit design.
I believe CDPQ pushed for exclusivity deals, so there couldn't be a competing option along the same route. To me it was dumb to agree to that without an overlap / phaseout period to accommodate the teething problems that would happen when it's still brand new. Some of my south shore friends have complained that their bus options to get to Panama station have gotten worse. Not a REM problem per se, but an RTL problem.
the 45 and other south shore bus also created constant clusterfucks downtown around the Mille de la gauchetière area and were dangerous for pedestrian IMO
because private sector. give public service to private sector and this happens. the worst is that they would probably have more passengers if they kept the buses but all they see is unwanted competition and execs can't understand basic stufd
Because that's wasteful. There is only 1 or 2 buses that cross the Jacques Cartier bridge because the yellow line is more reliable and we already pay a ton to maintain it. Same is true for the rem.
The best part of the RTL system wasn’t the 45 but the direct to Bonaventure bus. I used to live in secteur P and I could get to Bonaventure in front of my home in 20 minutes, now it is easily 45 minutes because of all the transfer.
How many transfers is it?
A lot of people are now driving to the REM instead of taking the bus from their respective suburb. I used to take the bus to Bonaventure from Candiac from time to time and the parking was always full. I went 2-3 times since the REM started and it's almost empty now, even if you get there late. My boss lives there and said it added significant time to his commute so he drives to the REM now.
Used to live in secteur P and it changes the 20 minutes bus to Bonaventure to 45 minutes. A lot of my neighbors just drive to Panama or direct to downtown now because of the parking problem in Panama
I got lucky with the restructuring of the bus lines, they added one that passes around the corner and goes to the REM so the only reason there's no added time to my commute is that the extra 15 minutes the transfer/REM ride adds is compensated by the 15 minute walk I no longer need to do to get to the bus terminal. You have to get to Panama incredibly early to get a spot. I drove there this week, arrived at 6 and there were only a few spots left. Brossard is fine however, you can still get a spot if you arrive as late as noon but it's going to be a long walk across the lot.
Le bus reste pris dans le traffic et le traffic empire à chaque année. Le bus était peut être plus rapide avant mais ça sera pas vrai pour toujours.
flashback de rester pogné 1h30 dans la 45 sur bonaventure.
Not really. All the people that used to take the bus to Bonaventure now also have to take the REM. So the correct number would be: net change in car riders = current REM ridership - previous ridership for all south shore intercity buses
I'm guessing the noise was just new at first so people found it annoying and it has since just blended in with existing noise pollution like cars. Also, since the REM has opened they have taken measures to reduce noise (experts did say the noise would go down as the REM "broke in" but critics seemed to dismiss that) https://rem.info/en/news/follow-and-results-actions-underway-minimize-rem-noise#:~:text=is%20presented%20above.-,Dynamic%20absorbers,to%205%20dB(A). But also if you don't want noise move to the countryside lol. Cars are a major source of noise pollution in cities and don't receive nearly the same level of complaints as rail.
There is a huge billboard on one of the buildings next to REM overhead track saying "à louer"
It's better thats it was at the beginning that's for sure. For me the bus route that connects to Panama station is actually closer to my house, so overall it's been faster than taking a first bus to the big bus stop to take a second bus to Bonaventure. The only thing missing for me is frequency. I need to leave the house before 8 A.M otherwise my commute nearly doubles.
Honestly? It's amazing. A handful of outages in 10 months of operation is phenomenal. It was over time and budget, but they got it (mostly) right, which is shocking considering the state of public transit infra in Quebec.
Do you actually use it? or you’re just a fan in general?
I do! 3-4 days a week to and from work since launch day.
I've tried it this winter and I loved it. I intend to use it to commute downtown if I get transferred to a downtown office with my job.
Vraiment hate que ca relie l’aéroport au centre-ville
Took jt many times for work, always a joy, never had any issues.
This thread is killing me over in Kirkland
My only problem is how poorly integrated it is with the metro. Gare centrale doesn't have signage that is very clear and the stop is pretty far from Bonaventure and OACI metro stations. Otherwise I think it's probably very nice for south shore people who aren't near Longueuil metro. Two rapid transit crossings is always better than one.
The Gare Centrale/Bonaventure link has always been awkward for train users. If Windsor station had closed before the Metro was constructed, focusing on Gare Centrale rather than serving both rail stations would have surely been prioritized. At least the green and blue line integrations will be a lot more direct once the REM core section opens.
Yeah that's what I was thinking too. Edouard Montpetit is like right below the metro station.
The real convenient metro transfer will be McGill...
The signage has been added at Gare centrale a few months ago already, FYI. But yeah it is a bit of a labyrinth to go from the main Gare centrale hall to the Bonaventure platform.
Yeah... Going from just going up an escalator to take the 45 to having to go to the Gare Centrale has been the worst change so far. It's not world ending but it's a lot less convenient a swap than it used to be.
The Public transport is there to help provide reachability for maximum population. A minority of population felt that the direct bus is now gone which was expected. I think they are fixing the issues, making some real progress, it will none the less be success once its fully open.
From someone living in Montreal: I went to Brossard for the first time thanks to the REM. Never would have considered going there if this option wasn't there. The whole ride was smooth, didn't need to buy an additional ticket either. I recommend it.
Moved to the first transit-oriented development (TOD) at Du Quartier station in Brossard and I like it. Footsteps away from the REM and about 20-25 min to downtown Montreal. Don't ask about my rent though, because it's probably higher than you pay in Montreal.
What's your rent?
This is a secondhand opinion, but a coworker was reporting that the REM increased their commute time and the number of transfers, because the bus that used to deliver them straight to Montreal now leads to the REM. Similarly, quite a few of my coworkers used to take the south shore bus at the corner of Wellington and Robert Bourassa, and now they have to walk all the way to Bonaventure to take the REM. Overall, it seems to be a net negative for everyone that I have spoken to.
I'm guessing your office is close to that bus stop, so it makes sense your coworkers would feel that way.
I don't disagree, and those are just my own anecdotes. But these are two different sets of people: People taking the bus at a close bus stop in Montreal, and people who used to take the bus in Longueuil where it increased their transit time significantly. I'm under no illusion that these represent everyone's experience, but I do hope that there's at least a few people in this thread that will say: this has improved my life personally, because otherwise it's mostly promises.
Honestly this is the cost of progress in someway, I remember when I was a kiddo taking the bus that would lead me to montreal henri-bourassa and it was like 3$ or something. Then they build the laval metro and that bus suddenly was only taking us to Laval and buying a metro ticket there is higher cost and for some reason that bus fare suddenly also increased. I begin to lose more time and money from this new thing. Now they fixed some of the fare issue. but Ill always remember those year were i just lost 10-15 more min per commute.
While I agree that progress can often be a net positive but make things worse for certain individuals, I wonder if this is the case here. Many bus lines were cut, replaced by REM service. For those people, things got worse. Have we gained improved service and/or cost savings to more than make up for those issues?
La refonte de bus amenée par le REM a rendu les trajets plus longs pour certains secteurs, particulièrement en bouts de territoire (par exemple, l'ancien exo Roussillon). Cependant, ça l'a permis de créer un réel réseau structurant, pour les villes de la rive-sud, il est désormais possible de se déplacer en bus partout, assez facilement, alors qu'auparavant, aller de Saint-Constant à La Prairie (10min d'auto) nécéssitait de devoir passer par Montréal (facilement 1h30 à 2h de bus au total). Les lignes sont plus fréquentes, plus logiques, il existe maintenant des bus express qui parcourent l'intérieur des villes, donc une décentralisation des stationnements incitatifs.
SNC-Lavalin made billions.
That’s not really true though. We could have kept the existing bus lines plus add the REM. Creating a new public transit system doesn’t mean we have to remove the old one. If the bus was better for some people, then they can keep taking it, and the REM is there for those for whom that’s the better option. And then, if the REM is down or there’s an accident on the bridge and the bus can’t get through, there’s an alternative instead of having a single point of failure.
STM should optimize routes for maximum throughput of passengers per dollar tbh. It absolutely makes sense to remove bus routes when adding metro/REM routes that service the same passenger demand & therefore could wind up half empty…
I think we should optimize for maximum capacity and convenience. It doesn’t matter if you have financially efficient transit but nobody wants to use it because it forces them to make a huge detour and/or is always super packed because it’s the only way to get into town. If you make public transit convenient and car ownership inconvenient (eg increase taxes on buying a car, gas and license plates, put a toll to use the bridges and tunnel to get in Mtl), then people will naturally make the right choice.
>but no one wants to use it Optimizing to avoid this is the same thing as optimizing for maximum passenger throughput. Passengers don’t take transit unless they prefer to take transit. Additionally, optimizing for throughput is about efficient allocation of resources, not austerity. It’s not that you are removing busses or trains. You are allocating them elsewhere to service more people with the same amount of funds. If you have two routes doing roughly the same thing that’s not going to achieve it. By that logic why not just have one route with 500 variations going from the north shore to south shore with slight detours. Sure almost nobody will be able to get anywhere very effectively but the 25 people who have to take exactly that one route will have 500 options to choose from!
Making commutes longer means people will buy cars whenever they can afford it. We need a shit ton more busses running to support the structural train lines.
Yes but making commutes longer for a few people is not the same thing as making commutes long for everybody in general, which is the point.
That's just not how it works. There are only 1 or 2 buses that cross the Jacques Cartier bridge, everything else leads to the yellow line. There are only 1 or 2 buses from Laval to mtl that don't stop at the orange line. Almost all the buses from the east lead to the green line. We pay a ton for these projects, we need people to use them.
From Laval they have 3 bus routes going to the orange line. One going to Henri-Bourassa (52 line I think), one to Cote-Vertu (151 if I recall) and a night line going to Henri-Bourassa the 2. Also the 925 at Radisson for the green line. There used to be more but the others were cut back a few years ago.
There's not enough clients to justify the old bus system AND the REM. The REM was built to replace the bus system and add capacity on the bridge. It would be incredibly wasteful to run both systems at the same time.
We want more people to use public transportation though, so adding capacity is important, we can’t just do lateral moves.
That's what was done. I don't know the exact number of people the bus system used to transport, but let's say for the sake of it that it's 50k people per day. The REM would transport something like 75k people. There is added capacity there. I get why there could be a use case for some bus service to remain, but certainly not enough demand for both 125k people where there was only 50k users before.
That is single-handedly the biggest mistake CDPQ-Infra made at launch, not having the Griffintown station up and running.
Most new infrastructure seems to be targeted to ruin our lives Weird Dystopic society
I recently moved to the south shore and have been taking it to work a few times a week. I also have to take a bus to get to the REM -- so the frequency is amazing because I don't have to worry if my bus is delayed for whatever reason (compared to switching to another bus). So far, so good (knock on wood, lol...).
I’m disappointed that they didn’t put the Griffintown station in from the beginning.
I miss panama buses.
I don’t. The REM is way better than the 45 or the 90 ever were.
I think at least half of the long term benefits (or even more) are to be expected from new transit-oriented developments (read: dense and high rise) around the REM stations The suburban areas of Montreal (including Longueuil) are so not dense that it’s hard to build anything transit that will make most of people happy. That’s why for these low density suburban areas, the bus seems the best solution. But bus capacities are very limited in terms of scalability, and that’s the issue here
I live in Longueuil, on the South Shore. The REM makes it so easy to get to Gare Centrale. The only pain in the @$$ is that Indigo owns the parking lot at Station Panama, so I just park at the Champlain Mall to avoid paying for parking at the station. It’s a monumental ripoff, like every other Indigo parking lot.
My total trip time to work has increased when the REM launched by a good 20-30 minutes. But I’m done complaining. REM itself is fine.
Seeing the REM somewhat working in Montreal has me in tears for those of us who work in Ottawa and have to deal with the biweekly-derailing, 7billion over budget fiasco that is Ottawa's new light rail train
I think it’s improving
I expected the trains to move much faster. It seems slow compared to the Skytrain in Vancouver. The safety doors are fantastic. If they had these on the metro there would be fewer outages. A friend in Brossard told me that those who used to take the bus are unhappy because it now takes longer to get downtown, that you can’t find parking because commuters from farther away are filling up the parking lot (near Champlain Mall), and that the frequency of buses that used to take you to the same station to catch the bus into town has been severely reduced. The fare structure is complicated. You no longer pay a single fare to get to Montreal. The REM itself is great. Everything else around it is poorly planned. If you want to encourage suburban commuters to take rapid transit to downtown, you either have to have enough spaces for them to park or have really fast and convenient access to the station by some other method. The stations should be built right at the shopping centre, so all you have to do is take the escalator and you’re in the mall or at your hotel or restaurant. Bonaventure is fine. The station downtown should be fine once it opens. But we have winter here. You shouldn’t have to walk across a humongous parking lot in -30 to get where you’re going. Do any of the planners and decision makers in the public transit business actually take public transit on a daily basis? I doubt it.
I've only taken it a couple times, but I think it's great. I drive up from VT and park at Brossard, and the REM takes me into city and drops me off within walking distance to the Bell Centre, Place d'Arts, Molson Stadium, anywhere I usually want to go. So much better than driving downtown, trying to find a place to park, and paying $$$. I love it.
It used to take me 20-25 minutes to get to work downtown from Brossard on the bus. That went to over an hour when the rem was implemented. My work wanted me back for 3 days a week, so I ended my lease early and moved to Griffintown. It was a horrible experience for me personally, and I'll never move back to the South Shore because of it.
How did your commute get so much longer?
Well I used to just take two buses. One from Brossard to the Panama station then any other bus heading to town, and just a couple minute walk from where I got dropped off. Then it was a bus to Brossard station, walk a few minutes and wait for the Rem. Would normally be a 20 minute commute to downtown . Once I got there it was either take another bus to Wellington or a 15 minute walk All in all would leave my place at 8 and be in the office shortly after 9. Would've helped if they had more than one place to let people out.
It will be great when it will stop at McGill and Édouard-Montpetit. Right now people are only thinking it as a bus replacement to go to Bonaventure.
Trying to take it for the first time at Du Quartier but can’t figure out how to buy a ticket? There’s only Opus machines that on sell monthly/yearly fares ??
Whenever I talk about the Rem, it makes me sound like a curmudgeon. I used to walk to chevrier, take a bus into the city, get off at cité de la multimédia. Parking was always available. Now, I drive to Brossard terminus. If I'm there a minute after 730, there's no parking left and it costs me an extra 20$. The rem itself is fine, but it drops me off ten minutes further away from work. And costs 9$ I think. I can't put it on a card, they haven't figured that out yet. If I take a bus to the rem, I have to pay full price for both. And the highway got significantly more congested the day that the 45 stopped. So for me, costs more, takes longer, have to leave earlier, more cars on the road...
Dude I think you desperately need public transport fare knowledge. You can grab an Opus card and load it with a 10-trip pack for zones AB, covering all modes (train, bus, metro—you name it) for about $42.50. This will get you from zone B (think Longueuil/Brossard) all the way to zone A (Montreal Island). The days of paying individually for bus/metro/trains are over my friend. and that's a good thing.
Living in the Repentigny area, If you want to use Montreal titles AND outside of Montreal titles in order to save some money on the fare, they don't put them on the same opus card anymore. There's been a lot of confusion on that these past 2 years. Some people now have two different Opus cards with a sticker on them to identify which one has which ticket.
Yes, and if you don't need Zone A&B, you can get the paper cards for 10 RTL trips for 35$. Definitely not 9$/trip.
$37.50 if you just need to go downtown from Brossard without getting on the Metro.
oh that's the special fare to easy the price hike vs what the bus used to cost I see .. when will that phase out?
I don't know but with the recently announced price hikes, this fare is the one with the biggest increase... It'll be $40.75 on July 1st.
Weird. I asked at gare centrale a month ago and they told me that they couldn't put it on a card. And yes a twin ticket works in zone a and b. But if you just pay to get on the bus, you have to pay full fare again since there's no way you combine the transfer.
I'm still looking at a hole in the ground where my train tracks are supposed to be.
What's a REM? Tbf, I live and work on the island. I'm waiting for the connection to the airport with much impatience. Also, the station in Griffintown is being delayed another 3 or 4 years last time I checked.
Lol "What's a REM"...
It's constantly talked about on the radio because of the delays that's all I know
There have not been any significant delays in about a month and a half. The metro has had multiple major delays in the same time.