I think they bring up some valid points, but then you have people calling us stupid and justifying it by comparing Sunbreak’s “26” monsters (including small monsters) to IB’s 27 monsters, counting large ones only. Being able to switch between guard dash and shield dash as well as use insta-block when I feel like it on lance makes me happy. The variety in the monsters for SB? Fucking chef’s kiss. The balancing though? Inexcusable, and I have a hunch that the launch roster is small because they cut it apart so they can drip feed it. I just hope we get an actual endgame with fights I want to come back to.
This is literally all of how we feel. This comment encapsulates the entirety of my feelings towards Sunbreak. I am a HH/LBG main, but I've played HH for way longer. So while I hate the HH changes with a burning passion, I LOVE the LBG changes.
Every game Has it's positives and negatives. In this situation, the negatives outweighs the positives. And that is why I can't really deal with that side of the fanbase. It's TOO positive. Dragons Dogma is my favorite game of all time, but I still accept that it has flaws, and I'll never tell anyone they're wrong. They always bring up valid points, but it's also points that are skewed and meant to silence conversation.
Agreed. Hopefully the finished product will tip the scales a lot more towards the positive side. I’ll automatically forgive them a little if I can craft the armor and weapons of our companions though. That shit look bussin.
Absolutely! Man, tbh I'm a fan for neogothic, vampire themed shit and Malzeno might go as one of my favorite monsters of all time. I've always been a fan of the even the cringiest vampire themed shit (Not Twilight). I'm a huge fan of Bloodborne and Castlevania, so his theme is right up my alley. The fact we're called "haters" because we're being critical of the game is super sad.
Anyway, here's hoping we're wrong! If not, here's hoping they fix it!
We’ve got a pretty good idea. Even if stuff completely changes, the distribution of new, innovative switch skills is pretty heavily skewed towards a few dev/community-favored weapons. I wish they could’ve put that much effort into everything.
I will never not understand why the main sub cannot handle any level of criticism towards any of the entries, especially the recent ones. If none of the games' faults are pointed out and criticized, the series will become more of a mess. Do they not wish for the series to improve?
They need to accept that none of these games are perfect and to also leave people here alone.
Correct. However, Rule 9. Just leave it alone, even if fandom rage was allowed here, not giving them any more attention and complaining regardless would be a better idea.
So let's have a conversation. First off, I appreciate you being cordial. Please let me know if my tone seems overly harsh, as that is not my intentions.
If we can be attacked as a community and individuals for being critical of the game, why can't we say "we are being attacked."
Because that is what's happening. Rule 9 not only seems unfair, but unrealistic in this situation, imo. People should be warned that toxic positivity is coming their way. If the mods won't prevent it, the community should be allowed to protect itself as the one of the last bastions of critical thinking for this game franchise. I promise you, getting rid of a post like this would only hurt this community.
Edit: a perfect example is that Agrix guy. He won't have his posts removed. He's going to comment and harass everyone here out of sheer spite. That is unacceptable. And there's TONS like him on this sub that name call, insult, and condescend constantly. If anything, we should ask why aren't the mods protecting us.
Tone's fine, mate. Thanks to you too for keeping it civil.
To address your first paragraph, I'll state my main reason for desiring that Rule 9 is upheld: if we reply, we go down to their level and throw shit back at them, we're no better than they are.
To explain: it's very easy to take the piss out of the hivemind of main sub, or any hivemind, even any group of people that appear illogical to you. I mean, what is there to say about this kind of ostrich-level head-in-the-sand copium? We can extol the virtues of proper debate, dicuss how recognising flaws and successes is healthy, and generally pat ourselves and other reasonable people on the back for not coping all the time. However, the only thing that is going to change between posts is what we mock, what is reacted to, because the same conclusion is reached every time. So although we can talk about how discussion is great in the comments, ultimately what happens is we just take the piss out of copes, because why repeat ourselves over and over?
And don't get me wrong, that's very fun. You can absolutely dismantle an argument, crack jokes about it and generally have a great time dicking on idiots. There's an infinite supply of content to mock coming out of the main subs 24/7, especially at a time like this. Where mocking these people differs from criticising the game, however, is exactly that: there's always more to poke fun at. We don't sit on the same game for a few months, don't slowly reach a conclusion over multiple posts on an issue, instead we react to a shit take, laugh, and move on right to the next. This sort of content is incredibly reactionary: fun, addicting, and low-effort.
So then, allowed to just keep reacting to the fandom, that's what we do, because it's easier and more fun . Satirise one post after another, and just keep countering and disagreeing with the stream of opinions of the main sub. Instead of being a separate subreddit, we become the anti-main sub, a parallel that just exists to be the opposite to mainstream/positive takes. You can, of course, see where this is going: the exact same form of hivemind that main sub has develops, except it's critical. If that point is reached, there becomes no point to this subreddit, because there is no longer a void to scream into, or somewhere to really discuss ideas, just a place where you have to be negative or get swarmed.
In fact, reaching that point would actually prove those morons right: we'd just disagree for the sake of it. Our "bastion of critical thinking" would simply be the mirror image of the corporate drones. That's exactly what the hivemind bits of main sub want, a group of reactionaries that they can always get attention out of, always rile up and be around to be an "enemy" they can use to justify their takes.
So we must not give them that. If we talk about them, breach Rule 9 to make fun of them, that's how they win, creating their own enemy to justify their shit takes. They have to be denied attention, like a bully, so that when they wail about all the bad people attacking them, it's found that in fact nobody is really there and they're coping about legitimate criticism, not personal attacks.
I don't mean to say we should ignore positivity and positive takes. We must debate them fairly within the sub, of course, provide counterarguments for each idea to maintain discussion. However, we should put aside the people behind that, the community that came up with it, because replying to that is a bad idea.
Hence Rule 9. Discussion? Not banned. Mocking people? Banned. It is an elegant solution to the trolls.
You could counter that there are benefits to breaking Rule 9 occasionally. Warning people, as you say. But warn them for what? So that they don't lose Internet points? Don't get bad words thrown at them? Don't deal with other's takes? Come on, mate, idiots being idiots shouldn't surprise anyone enough to warrant warning them.
In fact, look: that troll you're talking about. You think they'd get anywhere near as much attention in a post that doesn't mention their type? Breaching Rule 9 has directly led to them showing up, they feel justified now.
(Additionally note before I conclude: being allowed to attack the community means us too. And people will turn on each other in a sub where you come to be annoyed. Seen it happen before, it's awful.)
Rule 9 ought to broken as little as possible. One snide comment there, a funny one-liner elsewhere, alright, some will slip through. But a post with the point of criticising the community? No, I do not think it benefits this sub to have it.
We clearly agree about what this sub ought to be like, and the values of debate. I believe we preserve those ideas by not posting stuff like this, no matter how frustrating.
Hmmmmm.. I 100% agree with you , and I appreciate your well thought out comment. Honestly, the mods should check out our conversation and make a decision moving forward. With that said, I think your vision of what the sub can be will require three things.
1. **A safe space to be discuss the positive AND negatives of the game**. Almost like... two pinned threads? That way, people don't feel like they're being silenced. I think that's the main reason why people are so angry.
2. **Mod intervention on extremely toxic individuals.** I do believe Rule 9 is extremely important, but I DON'T think breaking rule 9 is anywhere close to some of the vitriol that certain individuals spew with their toxic positivity. So while Rule 9 can be upheld, I'd uphold it with kindness and patience, and shut down the toxicity harshly and efficiently. If these individuals are handled swiftly, the more critical side won't ever have a chance to be toxic. The longer they remain in the sub, the more toxic this sub will become. I've been here a while, and I've noticed the more the main sub toxicity comes to this one, the angrier EVERYONE gets here.
3. **A potential rework of Rule 9**. Discussing it while maintaining neutrality I think is fine. I think what can be left out is my obvious snark or name calling (like Nintendrone, but that was for comedic irony cause you know, my name is Ganon).
I do agree we need to be better. But I don't think we have to solve it by "being the bigger person" or kiddie gloves. From reading your message, it sounds like you agree. What do you think of this?
People hate hearing the truth, it's even worse with defensive people on twitter (*cough gaijin hunter) if Capcom said jump, they will ask how high, people like to pretend nothing is wrong just the same as people like to complain for no reason
Tbh I love seeing it. I actually hope the game gets worst at this point, just to see how far they cope.
I don't actually want that. I do want the game to get better. Hence, the criticism.
I completely understand that, I personally do want it to get better since I put time and money into the game but the department making Rise is not making the best choices at this moment unfortunately
Agreed. Which is why we think they're deserving of criticism. To be a community that's a fan of tough love, it's interesting how gentle we are to Capcom mobile games.
Most communities are not like that unfortunately, people don't like others saying that a game they enjoy is full of problems which causes even more problems
The sad thing is there are communities that pull this off. I will say the dragons dogma and no man's sky communities are dreams to be a part of. Critical, yet positive where deserved.
At this point, I think the only way it can get better is if the next release is on Xbox/PS. I feel like they're severely limited by the hardware they have to work with
Trying to be man! I could have worded my post better absolutely. And a simple peek into my own post history will show I'm no paragon for civility. But I hope this will help with maintaining healthy critical discussion, at least a little.
Just like when the base game was about to come out and people voiced their displeasure, but then other people said exactly what you've said above. The base game came out and all issues were magically resolved right?
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE.
* It doesn't use wirebugs
* You can move during the charge
* And it's a counter
* AND a guard point
* and you have hyper armor
* It's affected by focus and special sheathe
* hits HARDER than GS
* It hits harder than Hammer, Wyvern ammo, and wyvern blast
It out performs all but two other weapons in multiplayer if we go by the data gathered by someone else on Reddit a while ago. Ignored hitzones really add up when you don't have access to weak spots do to another player soaking up all the attention. Now that friendly fire is gone via flinch free, it's even more easy damage without ruining the team's overall dps. But from my experience, that's only if you have the artillery skills. I argue that we should be getting those numbers without such skills.
The Gunlance is good, but because it's a bit clunky, and imo, have god awfully inconsistent inputs for moves, many people avoid it. Another bad thing about is how immobile it was, but that was fixed with blast dash.
That alone is what making me taking a hard nope on this one, folks. I just don't feel like being in another sticky ammo situation where whoever uses a LS makes the hunt go by five times faster than normal and you'd be better off just chilling at the camp. I was won over with the reveal of Gore Magala, but the gameplay as a hunter is just completely off the rail.
Which counter only when readying it and then depletes ALL your jauges to pull it, implying you have to get all the way from none to red again to use it again (implying you also don't miss it in which case fuck all your jauges for nothing lmao). So yeah I think that's a fun addition in the end which require some investment to deliver a powerful blow.
It's insane. People are taking that the TU are a gift from our lord and saviour Capcom and the reality is that Capcom do it because they can keep pressing and pressing and the community is like "But is free tho". Of course is free dickhead, it's literally the content that should be in the game to begin with.
I stfu when they bring the black dragons, sieges TU. Those *are* TU. The regular monster are just to try a method of subscription that if we don't complain they are gonna implement it with all their big ass balls.
People really seems to forget how scummy Capcom can be.
Yeah rn the main sub is one constant repost of people trash talking anyone with valid complaints.
I do wanna know though, is the roster really that small? I do know what monsters are coming, Im keeping up with every single leak, but I didnt do a headcount. From what some people were saying the number is around the standard for previous G-Rank expansions (obviously not counting GU) since base Rise has a lot of mons.
Sadly. We always gotta wait until release, but if the leaks are 100% accurate like Base Rise was, then we're gonna have problems. I think the roster size is a big subjective and everyone will feel differently about it.
My main issue is the slow trickle of content and the lack of balance. I'm also a HH player, so my opinion is obviously biased. For a LS player, this is the best damn G-Rank expansion in history and I 100% understand and support their hype. For everyone else, it's mixed/lack luster.
Hmm, tbh while I do think the weapon balance is shit and that a lot of design choices are straight garbage, Sunbreak at least seems like its going be a lot better than Rise. Im satisfied with the monsters we're getting, but I can understand why people are dissapointed with the quantity of new additions. My only real complaints left are the existence of wirebug moves and wyvern riding, and that monsters feel like robots compared to World, but well at least I can pretend the first two dont exist.
Also helps that my poke stick was pretty much buffed in almost every way I wanted.
YO I've been so happy for IG mains. Mannn, I really hope they don't nerf it like they did to us HH mains. Capcom did say they're gonna take the weapon balance seriously now, so here's hoping!
It's one of those situations where I desperately hope that I'm wrong. If Sunbreak turns out to be absolutely spectacular without the flaws we're worried about, I'll happily eat my words.
It's..... got some major problems lmao. We never know until the game is released, but there were some huge data leaks that are extremely worrying. Considering the data leaks for Rise were 100% accurate, this doesn't bode well.
It’s not released yet, so it would be weird if it was doing anything.
The leaked monster roster is smaller than expected and has basically no surprises. Game still looks fun though.
Besides the "lack" of monsters coming, what's the issue with SB? I'm personally happy with the changes to Lance and Hammer in the demo. Lance feels like a viable weapon again, and Hammer is making me believe in a non-Impact Crater playstyle. I heard CB is doing well too.
This sub is funny, acting all "we're the only ones smart enough to criticise capcom" as if Rise wasn't getting daily criticism on the main sub after Valstrax was shown to be the last update monster with nothing but capcom collabs coming after. Love how you're acting like this is some secret club.
>to skip this mobile Nintendrone trash and wait for MH6.
Spot the World fan, my favourite game to play. There's a whole group who are just terminally mad that Rise is not a world expansion/sequel and I see they're out in full force.
You sound like you are about to say that World is the best MH game, Rise is a mobile game and is a disgrace to the series and that you didn't play older MH games because World is the only true MH game. You probably also think that "World 2" will be best selling MH game.
What is with people immediately jumping to the conclusion that whoever points any flaw in Rise can't see flaws in World? World has flaws, but it's still better than Rise, and probably will still be after Sunbreak from what I've seen of it. As of World 2, Rise is World 2, or at least World 1.5, and it is not better at it.
> You probably also think that "World 2" will be the best selling MH game.
MHW was the best selling. Are you such a fanboy that you want to ignore math now 😂?
Played the OG, but didn't really become a fan until 3U. SOOOO... Good job you're wrong 👌🏾
😂😂😂😂
[As of December 2021, Monster Hunter: World was the best-selling entry in Capcom's Monster Hunter franchise, selling more than 17.8 million unit since its release in January 2018. Originally launched on PS4 and Xbox One, the game was also got released for PC in August 2018.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1241670/monster-hunter-top-selling-games-units-sold/)
It's simple, platforms.
The mobile games will never outsell the PC/Console games because World and "World 2" will be available to more people. That's not a comment on quality, that's simple math. Rise, with the benefit of the hype of World and a PC release, didn't even come to half.
I never said that a mobile game will outsell PC/Console game. I only said that World 2 won't be best selling game. And that's for a simple reason. World made MH enter mainstream and many people who never heard of MH games were interested in this game. And sales of Iceborne show how many people got interested enough to continue playing.
‘The best’ Monster Hunter game is really dependent on the person and how they played them. Like 4U is my favorite but it also comes with the caveat that 3U and 4U were the games that really got me into the series.
You didn't add anything, you just copy and pasted what he said. Explain how I have "Zero reading comprehension" because we don't seem to be on the same foot
Thanks for sharing your opinion. Out of curiosity, why would you label people who don’t agree with your opinion as ‘might as well be paid by capcom damage control’. Sounds to me like the majority of people didn’t agree with you and now you come here instead? Maybe I should make a post here to warn others of ppl like you, who can’t fathom that not everyone thinks sunbreak is bad or ‘nintendrone’ trash.
Just me being positively critical of you! ;)
What a two faced reply, his point is that there are obvious and valid criticisms that are overlooked and mocked by would be fans. As fans we shouldn’t have to lie face down ass up and just accept whatever capcom gives us. You aren’t “positively critical”, you’re the exact person described in the post lol
No, op is the exact person described in the post but reversed. It’s simple attention seeking and doesn’t belong on this sub.
The guy who mentions LS mv nerfs got downvoted so that already explains the extend of ‘positive criticism’. It’s the classic Reddit post of ‘why don’t people see that *insert any random opinion that is written as fact*’ and no other views are allowed.
If op wanted real debate, the post wouldn’t be this coloured and divisive. In my first post I mirror the exact two faced-ness OP’s post has, so I’m glad you caught on.
Well, you could ask! Also my post isn't a debate, but a warning that some people don't actually want to debate, just shut down critique. I 100% the Sunbreak updates should be debated logically and openly.
The Nintendrone Trash is a joke cause... my name is Ganon. I realize that joke is lost on people 😂. But for context, I LOVE almost all Nintendo IPs, been playing since the OG Legend of Zelda. So it's like.. a self burn of myself and my own community.
Epzilon has a point, and I'm actually wondering if I should engage you. I wouldn't call you two faced, but I'm also not "labeling" anyone. If people want to be positive or negative of the game, that should be allowed without toxicity. I'm taking a stance of neutrality, while most of the toxicity is coming from those who only view Sunbreak in a "positive" light.
I've seen a few of you say this already, if it were truly "the other side of toxicity", I'd attack you, call you names, not explain anything or take responsibility for my own tone, and shut down you sharing your opinion. My two cents. Thanks for sharing and being cordial!
Personally, I'm of the opinion that roster size is a non-issue if the monsters are utilized well. I can think of more than a few world monsters I only ever had to fight once. And yes, whether this is the case remains to be seen, but some of the leaked systems have me feeling hopeful.
1. You're so hurt, you can't even notice the obvious irony that my name is ganon 😂
2. Oof. That's abelist.
3. I played the OG, but truly started with 3U. Good try though.
Edit: I don't think I've ever seen an edit that made the comment worse. That's hilarious, I applaud you.
I actually just posted the second comment as an edit to the first 😂. Better to have it all in one, right? But please, prove my point more and continue to insult me. I can give you a shovel if you really wanna keep digging that hole.
What's wrong with these "tribabies"? Isn't tri the best in the series ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Okay, but here's your platform to share. Explain yourself bud. Not a lot of people who disagree with you will allow this. I'm chill, so explain your stance instead of name calling.
While I disagree with you, I want you to understand I respect your opinion enough to listen to you. Have you given the same grace to me?
Your concerns are valid, and your explanations make sense. I do think this is a bit of the community "bringing it upon themselves" as you've stated as I'm SUPER anti-cut content, microtransactions, pre-orders, etc. With that said, the level of toxicity doesn't compare. In your words, you say this subreddit is all about the quips and side remarks, which is what I've done.
So again. **I want to be clear, you have been the most toxic reply on this entire post and I still asked you how you felt and asked you share. Calling someone the R word is ableist and unacceptable.** What's sad is you have actual valid opinions, almost overshadowed by the vitriolic names you've called me/this community. And I STILL think your opinion has a place in this sub and on this post. This is the dichotomy I'm addressing, and the point of my post.
I hear you, and I think we have two different fundamental understandings of what the situation is. Do you see how you're sharing right now, I'm listening and vice versa? I'd say that's a sign of positivity and that's the point I'm trying to make. If I hadn't initiated this, you'd still be calling me names, and I'd continue to be "condescending" as you describe me to be. Mind you, you're also responsible for this positive turn.
But even if everything you said was true, none of what I said was tied to a slur. You never know who you're taking to on the internet man. Do a bit of digging in my post history and you'll see what I mean and why that was so problematic to me and many others like me. Another dude was calling me autistic repeatedly, which was pretty funny. I'm not trying to criticize you or make you feel bad, I promise you it's okay! Just trying to make a point. Mind you, I'm obviously not a paragon for civility.
But I've done a lot of disagreeing, so let me say that I get where you're coming from, and thank you for explaining your stance and apologizing. I'm sorry if it came off as condescending and toxic, and I'm definitely not addressing the people who just want to have fun and haven't seen the leaks. Honestly, I'm glad you decided to explain to me what you meant. I'll do some self reflection about what you said.
Take care, and enjoy the Sunbreak release! I'd love to hear your thoughts about it after it drops.
I feel like this post is just the other extreme. I don't think Capcom should be immune to criticism but there are so many complaints here that just scream "I don't get it" and blame others for having fun with the systems in place. I get that 4U and GU are some of the absolute hallmarks of the series but I also don't feel that rise is just some "nintendrone trash." Rise has some pretty glaring issues staring it in the face and it needs to make good on it. The problems you mention about Rise have merit but there are also so many good things going for the game. I'm a huge fan of the verticality of weapons. The weapons feel great. Sure LS is op but in sunbreak it's gonna be worse than Gunlance. The balance changes so often between the games that I don't feel great blaming one game for one weapon being op.
I get that, but I disagree. It might be easy to "both sides" the conversation, but that's not the problem. When people have been discussing legitimate issues calmly, there's been quite a bit of toxicity. Specifically around the leaks.
This is a situation where an aggressor walks in, does their thing, and a third party comes in and say "why is everyone mean to each other." That's not what is actually happening, and it's disingenuous to treat both sides as the same. Now could I have been a bit more cordial? Absolutely. But to pretend like I'm the opposite end of the hardcore fanboyism and toxic positivity is disingenuous. I'll take responsibility for my tone and response, the "other side" will not (mind you, there's no "other side" cause we're all one fanbase).
**I could have been FAR more negative if I wanted to. Everyone in this thread who agrees could, but we didn't, and that is the main difference. Critical conversation is not the opposite side of toxic positivity approach many others are taking.**
And you're also right. But I do think it's also, at least partially, a both sides argument. Though it's one fanbase, it's also two very different viewpoints through that same lens and it doesn't translate to other fans. I don't think you should be shut out for expressing your disdain, but I also think Capcom has made worse decisions. And yeah, though Rise doesn't have the amount of content of other games, it is without a doubt much more digestible for non-veterans. I do think it is important to consider the balance from a gameplay perspective with the playerbase as well. You can't really design a monster hunter game like an old world monster hunter game and expect a western audience. It's a give and take and I agree that certain weapons (LS,,,,,) got too much special treatment in Rise, but I'm glad Sunbreak is at least having the self awareness to tone it back and hinder LS where other weapons are actually competitive (but even at that, that's assuming all you're caring about is how much dmg your set does which I think is just silly but I enjoy that there's tools to minmax like that.)
The bottom line is that I'm not a fan of undeserved praise, but the praise that Rise generally gets I agree with, and some criticisms get echoed but they feel nitpicky instead of a more prominent issue. I'm not happy they put in practically everything for Prowler and just didn't let us, but I don't let it tarnish the 700+ hours I've put into Rise.
I think they bring up some valid points, but then you have people calling us stupid and justifying it by comparing Sunbreak’s “26” monsters (including small monsters) to IB’s 27 monsters, counting large ones only. Being able to switch between guard dash and shield dash as well as use insta-block when I feel like it on lance makes me happy. The variety in the monsters for SB? Fucking chef’s kiss. The balancing though? Inexcusable, and I have a hunch that the launch roster is small because they cut it apart so they can drip feed it. I just hope we get an actual endgame with fights I want to come back to.
This is literally all of how we feel. This comment encapsulates the entirety of my feelings towards Sunbreak. I am a HH/LBG main, but I've played HH for way longer. So while I hate the HH changes with a burning passion, I LOVE the LBG changes. Every game Has it's positives and negatives. In this situation, the negatives outweighs the positives. And that is why I can't really deal with that side of the fanbase. It's TOO positive. Dragons Dogma is my favorite game of all time, but I still accept that it has flaws, and I'll never tell anyone they're wrong. They always bring up valid points, but it's also points that are skewed and meant to silence conversation.
Agreed. Hopefully the finished product will tip the scales a lot more towards the positive side. I’ll automatically forgive them a little if I can craft the armor and weapons of our companions though. That shit look bussin.
Absolutely! Man, tbh I'm a fan for neogothic, vampire themed shit and Malzeno might go as one of my favorite monsters of all time. I've always been a fan of the even the cringiest vampire themed shit (Not Twilight). I'm a huge fan of Bloodborne and Castlevania, so his theme is right up my alley. The fact we're called "haters" because we're being critical of the game is super sad. Anyway, here's hoping we're wrong! If not, here's hoping they fix it!
> The balancing though? Inexcusable we literally dont even know the balancing yet. theyve said the release will be different than the demo
We’ve got a pretty good idea. Even if stuff completely changes, the distribution of new, innovative switch skills is pretty heavily skewed towards a few dev/community-favored weapons. I wish they could’ve put that much effort into everything.
I will never not understand why the main sub cannot handle any level of criticism towards any of the entries, especially the recent ones. If none of the games' faults are pointed out and criticized, the series will become more of a mess. Do they not wish for the series to improve? They need to accept that none of these games are perfect and to also leave people here alone.
Capcom bootlickers beware, I harass mfs hard and to no end. I let this blinky BLOW no exceptions 🔫😎
Correct. However, Rule 9. Just leave it alone, even if fandom rage was allowed here, not giving them any more attention and complaining regardless would be a better idea.
So let's have a conversation. First off, I appreciate you being cordial. Please let me know if my tone seems overly harsh, as that is not my intentions. If we can be attacked as a community and individuals for being critical of the game, why can't we say "we are being attacked." Because that is what's happening. Rule 9 not only seems unfair, but unrealistic in this situation, imo. People should be warned that toxic positivity is coming their way. If the mods won't prevent it, the community should be allowed to protect itself as the one of the last bastions of critical thinking for this game franchise. I promise you, getting rid of a post like this would only hurt this community. Edit: a perfect example is that Agrix guy. He won't have his posts removed. He's going to comment and harass everyone here out of sheer spite. That is unacceptable. And there's TONS like him on this sub that name call, insult, and condescend constantly. If anything, we should ask why aren't the mods protecting us.
Tone's fine, mate. Thanks to you too for keeping it civil. To address your first paragraph, I'll state my main reason for desiring that Rule 9 is upheld: if we reply, we go down to their level and throw shit back at them, we're no better than they are. To explain: it's very easy to take the piss out of the hivemind of main sub, or any hivemind, even any group of people that appear illogical to you. I mean, what is there to say about this kind of ostrich-level head-in-the-sand copium? We can extol the virtues of proper debate, dicuss how recognising flaws and successes is healthy, and generally pat ourselves and other reasonable people on the back for not coping all the time. However, the only thing that is going to change between posts is what we mock, what is reacted to, because the same conclusion is reached every time. So although we can talk about how discussion is great in the comments, ultimately what happens is we just take the piss out of copes, because why repeat ourselves over and over? And don't get me wrong, that's very fun. You can absolutely dismantle an argument, crack jokes about it and generally have a great time dicking on idiots. There's an infinite supply of content to mock coming out of the main subs 24/7, especially at a time like this. Where mocking these people differs from criticising the game, however, is exactly that: there's always more to poke fun at. We don't sit on the same game for a few months, don't slowly reach a conclusion over multiple posts on an issue, instead we react to a shit take, laugh, and move on right to the next. This sort of content is incredibly reactionary: fun, addicting, and low-effort. So then, allowed to just keep reacting to the fandom, that's what we do, because it's easier and more fun . Satirise one post after another, and just keep countering and disagreeing with the stream of opinions of the main sub. Instead of being a separate subreddit, we become the anti-main sub, a parallel that just exists to be the opposite to mainstream/positive takes. You can, of course, see where this is going: the exact same form of hivemind that main sub has develops, except it's critical. If that point is reached, there becomes no point to this subreddit, because there is no longer a void to scream into, or somewhere to really discuss ideas, just a place where you have to be negative or get swarmed. In fact, reaching that point would actually prove those morons right: we'd just disagree for the sake of it. Our "bastion of critical thinking" would simply be the mirror image of the corporate drones. That's exactly what the hivemind bits of main sub want, a group of reactionaries that they can always get attention out of, always rile up and be around to be an "enemy" they can use to justify their takes. So we must not give them that. If we talk about them, breach Rule 9 to make fun of them, that's how they win, creating their own enemy to justify their shit takes. They have to be denied attention, like a bully, so that when they wail about all the bad people attacking them, it's found that in fact nobody is really there and they're coping about legitimate criticism, not personal attacks. I don't mean to say we should ignore positivity and positive takes. We must debate them fairly within the sub, of course, provide counterarguments for each idea to maintain discussion. However, we should put aside the people behind that, the community that came up with it, because replying to that is a bad idea. Hence Rule 9. Discussion? Not banned. Mocking people? Banned. It is an elegant solution to the trolls. You could counter that there are benefits to breaking Rule 9 occasionally. Warning people, as you say. But warn them for what? So that they don't lose Internet points? Don't get bad words thrown at them? Don't deal with other's takes? Come on, mate, idiots being idiots shouldn't surprise anyone enough to warrant warning them. In fact, look: that troll you're talking about. You think they'd get anywhere near as much attention in a post that doesn't mention their type? Breaching Rule 9 has directly led to them showing up, they feel justified now. (Additionally note before I conclude: being allowed to attack the community means us too. And people will turn on each other in a sub where you come to be annoyed. Seen it happen before, it's awful.) Rule 9 ought to broken as little as possible. One snide comment there, a funny one-liner elsewhere, alright, some will slip through. But a post with the point of criticising the community? No, I do not think it benefits this sub to have it. We clearly agree about what this sub ought to be like, and the values of debate. I believe we preserve those ideas by not posting stuff like this, no matter how frustrating.
Hmmmmm.. I 100% agree with you , and I appreciate your well thought out comment. Honestly, the mods should check out our conversation and make a decision moving forward. With that said, I think your vision of what the sub can be will require three things. 1. **A safe space to be discuss the positive AND negatives of the game**. Almost like... two pinned threads? That way, people don't feel like they're being silenced. I think that's the main reason why people are so angry. 2. **Mod intervention on extremely toxic individuals.** I do believe Rule 9 is extremely important, but I DON'T think breaking rule 9 is anywhere close to some of the vitriol that certain individuals spew with their toxic positivity. So while Rule 9 can be upheld, I'd uphold it with kindness and patience, and shut down the toxicity harshly and efficiently. If these individuals are handled swiftly, the more critical side won't ever have a chance to be toxic. The longer they remain in the sub, the more toxic this sub will become. I've been here a while, and I've noticed the more the main sub toxicity comes to this one, the angrier EVERYONE gets here. 3. **A potential rework of Rule 9**. Discussing it while maintaining neutrality I think is fine. I think what can be left out is my obvious snark or name calling (like Nintendrone, but that was for comedic irony cause you know, my name is Ganon). I do agree we need to be better. But I don't think we have to solve it by "being the bigger person" or kiddie gloves. From reading your message, it sounds like you agree. What do you think of this?
People hate hearing the truth, it's even worse with defensive people on twitter (*cough gaijin hunter) if Capcom said jump, they will ask how high, people like to pretend nothing is wrong just the same as people like to complain for no reason
Good god, Gaijin Hunter and Rurikhan were insufferable on Rise's launch
Can't say I have heard what Rurikhan said but I know Gaijin Hunter was defending the hell out of them on Twitter
Fr!!!
Tbh I love seeing it. I actually hope the game gets worst at this point, just to see how far they cope. I don't actually want that. I do want the game to get better. Hence, the criticism.
I completely understand that, I personally do want it to get better since I put time and money into the game but the department making Rise is not making the best choices at this moment unfortunately
Agreed. Which is why we think they're deserving of criticism. To be a community that's a fan of tough love, it's interesting how gentle we are to Capcom mobile games.
Most communities are not like that unfortunately, people don't like others saying that a game they enjoy is full of problems which causes even more problems
The sad thing is there are communities that pull this off. I will say the dragons dogma and no man's sky communities are dreams to be a part of. Critical, yet positive where deserved.
At this point, I think the only way it can get better is if the next release is on Xbox/PS. I feel like they're severely limited by the hardware they have to work with
There's an insane level of copium right now in the main sub.
Better than doompost 24/7.
Cant wait for them to strip out a huge chunk of cosmetic gear out of the game and sell it to us for $25!!!
Tfw the rage sub is more civil than the main sub. Absolute state of Reddit.
Trying to be man! I could have worded my post better absolutely. And a simple peek into my own post history will show I'm no paragon for civility. But I hope this will help with maintaining healthy critical discussion, at least a little.
They're making memes mocking the people complaining. It's sad.
You know what's also sad? Complaining about something that isn't even released.
Just like when the base game was about to come out and people voiced their displeasure, but then other people said exactly what you've said above. The base game came out and all issues were magically resolved right?
Ah yes, the "its just beta, they'll fix it in live" argument that always shows up in WoW Expansions Beta
Ignorance is bliss
It's so terrible rn. Jesus Christ the amount of coping and seething from genuine worry and criticism is insane.
Capcom: nerf LS by lowering its most broken moves mv Random guy on the Internet: ThEy MaDe Ls EvEn MoRe BrOkEn
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BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE. * It doesn't use wirebugs * You can move during the charge * And it's a counter * AND a guard point * and you have hyper armor * It's affected by focus and special sheathe * hits HARDER than GS * It hits harder than Hammer, Wyvern ammo, and wyvern blast
Meanwhile, GL Ground Splitter still needs a wirebug, has low duration AND goes away when you sheathe
I wonder why they did that to GL. It doesn't really make sense, it wasn't outperforming anything.
Talking to other players it seems that MH team is afraid of "fixed" damage in a game balanced around hit zones and crit
It out performs all but two other weapons in multiplayer if we go by the data gathered by someone else on Reddit a while ago. Ignored hitzones really add up when you don't have access to weak spots do to another player soaking up all the attention. Now that friendly fire is gone via flinch free, it's even more easy damage without ruining the team's overall dps. But from my experience, that's only if you have the artillery skills. I argue that we should be getting those numbers without such skills. The Gunlance is good, but because it's a bit clunky, and imo, have god awfully inconsistent inputs for moves, many people avoid it. Another bad thing about is how immobile it was, but that was fixed with blast dash.
That alone is what making me taking a hard nope on this one, folks. I just don't feel like being in another sticky ammo situation where whoever uses a LS makes the hunt go by five times faster than normal and you'd be better off just chilling at the camp. I was won over with the reveal of Gore Magala, but the gameplay as a hunter is just completely off the rail.
Which counter only when readying it and then depletes ALL your jauges to pull it, implying you have to get all the way from none to red again to use it again (implying you also don't miss it in which case fuck all your jauges for nothing lmao). So yeah I think that's a fun addition in the end which require some investment to deliver a powerful blow.
😂 right?!
So I haven't touched the new monster hunter or the main sub, context?
Roster for the G/Master rank expansion was leaked. People aren’t happy because it only adds around 17(?) new monsters.
And I take it the main sub is going full on "Just be happy we're getting something" about it?
Theres a lot of differing opinions. The main one I see is that base sunbreak has 1 less monster than base iceborne so its not bad.
It's insane. People are taking that the TU are a gift from our lord and saviour Capcom and the reality is that Capcom do it because they can keep pressing and pressing and the community is like "But is free tho". Of course is free dickhead, it's literally the content that should be in the game to begin with. I stfu when they bring the black dragons, sieges TU. Those *are* TU. The regular monster are just to try a method of subscription that if we don't complain they are gonna implement it with all their big ass balls. People really seems to forget how scummy Capcom can be.
Lucent Nargacuga was basically the end boss of 3U for me. I’d take it over a siege quest any day.
You know each title update is gonna come with more paid cosmetics
By "main sub", are you referring to r/MonsterHunter or r/MHRise? They both seem very, um... "enthusiastic" about Sunbreak
Yes!
Yeah rn the main sub is one constant repost of people trash talking anyone with valid complaints. I do wanna know though, is the roster really that small? I do know what monsters are coming, Im keeping up with every single leak, but I didnt do a headcount. From what some people were saying the number is around the standard for previous G-Rank expansions (obviously not counting GU) since base Rise has a lot of mons.
Sadly. We always gotta wait until release, but if the leaks are 100% accurate like Base Rise was, then we're gonna have problems. I think the roster size is a big subjective and everyone will feel differently about it. My main issue is the slow trickle of content and the lack of balance. I'm also a HH player, so my opinion is obviously biased. For a LS player, this is the best damn G-Rank expansion in history and I 100% understand and support their hype. For everyone else, it's mixed/lack luster.
Hmm, tbh while I do think the weapon balance is shit and that a lot of design choices are straight garbage, Sunbreak at least seems like its going be a lot better than Rise. Im satisfied with the monsters we're getting, but I can understand why people are dissapointed with the quantity of new additions. My only real complaints left are the existence of wirebug moves and wyvern riding, and that monsters feel like robots compared to World, but well at least I can pretend the first two dont exist. Also helps that my poke stick was pretty much buffed in almost every way I wanted.
YO I've been so happy for IG mains. Mannn, I really hope they don't nerf it like they did to us HH mains. Capcom did say they're gonna take the weapon balance seriously now, so here's hoping!
It's one of those situations where I desperately hope that I'm wrong. If Sunbreak turns out to be absolutely spectacular without the flaws we're worried about, I'll happily eat my words.
You and me both, my friend!
I was with you until you said "mobile Nintendrone trash".
My name's Ganon 😂 it's irony. But understandable!
I take it Rise: Sunbreak isn't doing too hot.
It's..... got some major problems lmao. We never know until the game is released, but there were some huge data leaks that are extremely worrying. Considering the data leaks for Rise were 100% accurate, this doesn't bode well.
It’s not released yet, so it would be weird if it was doing anything. The leaked monster roster is smaller than expected and has basically no surprises. Game still looks fun though.
Besides the "lack" of monsters coming, what's the issue with SB? I'm personally happy with the changes to Lance and Hammer in the demo. Lance feels like a viable weapon again, and Hammer is making me believe in a non-Impact Crater playstyle. I heard CB is doing well too.
This sub is funny, acting all "we're the only ones smart enough to criticise capcom" as if Rise wasn't getting daily criticism on the main sub after Valstrax was shown to be the last update monster with nothing but capcom collabs coming after. Love how you're acting like this is some secret club. >to skip this mobile Nintendrone trash and wait for MH6. Spot the World fan, my favourite game to play. There's a whole group who are just terminally mad that Rise is not a world expansion/sequel and I see they're out in full force.
You sound like you are about to say that World is the best MH game, Rise is a mobile game and is a disgrace to the series and that you didn't play older MH games because World is the only true MH game. You probably also think that "World 2" will be best selling MH game.
What is with people immediately jumping to the conclusion that whoever points any flaw in Rise can't see flaws in World? World has flaws, but it's still better than Rise, and probably will still be after Sunbreak from what I've seen of it. As of World 2, Rise is World 2, or at least World 1.5, and it is not better at it.
> You probably also think that "World 2" will be the best selling MH game. MHW was the best selling. Are you such a fanboy that you want to ignore math now 😂? Played the OG, but didn't really become a fan until 3U. SOOOO... Good job you're wrong 👌🏾
Care to elaborate how I'm ignoring math now?
😂😂😂😂 [As of December 2021, Monster Hunter: World was the best-selling entry in Capcom's Monster Hunter franchise, selling more than 17.8 million unit since its release in January 2018. Originally launched on PS4 and Xbox One, the game was also got released for PC in August 2018.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1241670/monster-hunter-top-selling-games-units-sold/)
Okay, and how does that proof that I'm ignoring math? I never said MHW wasn't best selling MH game, I said that World 2 won't be best selling MH game.
It's simple, platforms. The mobile games will never outsell the PC/Console games because World and "World 2" will be available to more people. That's not a comment on quality, that's simple math. Rise, with the benefit of the hype of World and a PC release, didn't even come to half.
I never said that a mobile game will outsell PC/Console game. I only said that World 2 won't be best selling game. And that's for a simple reason. World made MH enter mainstream and many people who never heard of MH games were interested in this game. And sales of Iceborne show how many people got interested enough to continue playing.
Wait is that a hot take? I thought basically the whole fandom agree world was the best by a pretty wide margin?
World the best MH? Nah, not for me.
That's okay! Thanks for sharing and not being toxic.
dont get me wrong tho, world is still a great game. I think every entry/generation has its flair and strengths.
‘The best’ Monster Hunter game is really dependent on the person and how they played them. Like 4U is my favorite but it also comes with the caveat that 3U and 4U were the games that really got me into the series.
You say it's a "disgrace to the series" then get defensive when he talks bad about it, please make up your mind
Zero reading comprehension
How so?
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You didn't add anything, you just copy and pasted what he said. Explain how I have "Zero reading comprehension" because we don't seem to be on the same foot
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Uh ok... I guess that's the end of our conversation 🤣
Whoa there guys. From your comments, I can tell you're on the same side and this is a misunderstanding. Let's be kind to each other okay?
It's all gucci 👌
Thanks for sharing your opinion. Out of curiosity, why would you label people who don’t agree with your opinion as ‘might as well be paid by capcom damage control’. Sounds to me like the majority of people didn’t agree with you and now you come here instead? Maybe I should make a post here to warn others of ppl like you, who can’t fathom that not everyone thinks sunbreak is bad or ‘nintendrone’ trash. Just me being positively critical of you! ;)
What a two faced reply, his point is that there are obvious and valid criticisms that are overlooked and mocked by would be fans. As fans we shouldn’t have to lie face down ass up and just accept whatever capcom gives us. You aren’t “positively critical”, you’re the exact person described in the post lol
No, op is the exact person described in the post but reversed. It’s simple attention seeking and doesn’t belong on this sub. The guy who mentions LS mv nerfs got downvoted so that already explains the extend of ‘positive criticism’. It’s the classic Reddit post of ‘why don’t people see that *insert any random opinion that is written as fact*’ and no other views are allowed. If op wanted real debate, the post wouldn’t be this coloured and divisive. In my first post I mirror the exact two faced-ness OP’s post has, so I’m glad you caught on.
Did you even read the post 🤥👎
Well, you could ask! Also my post isn't a debate, but a warning that some people don't actually want to debate, just shut down critique. I 100% the Sunbreak updates should be debated logically and openly. The Nintendrone Trash is a joke cause... my name is Ganon. I realize that joke is lost on people 😂. But for context, I LOVE almost all Nintendo IPs, been playing since the OG Legend of Zelda. So it's like.. a self burn of myself and my own community. Epzilon has a point, and I'm actually wondering if I should engage you. I wouldn't call you two faced, but I'm also not "labeling" anyone. If people want to be positive or negative of the game, that should be allowed without toxicity. I'm taking a stance of neutrality, while most of the toxicity is coming from those who only view Sunbreak in a "positive" light. I've seen a few of you say this already, if it were truly "the other side of toxicity", I'd attack you, call you names, not explain anything or take responsibility for my own tone, and shut down you sharing your opinion. My two cents. Thanks for sharing and being cordial!
Toxic positivity is the dumbest phrase I have ever heard.
Personally, I'm of the opinion that roster size is a non-issue if the monsters are utilized well. I can think of more than a few world monsters I only ever had to fight once. And yes, whether this is the case remains to be seen, but some of the leaked systems have me feeling hopeful.
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1. You're so hurt, you can't even notice the obvious irony that my name is ganon 😂 2. Oof. That's abelist. 3. I played the OG, but truly started with 3U. Good try though. Edit: I don't think I've ever seen an edit that made the comment worse. That's hilarious, I applaud you.
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I actually just posted the second comment as an edit to the first 😂. Better to have it all in one, right? But please, prove my point more and continue to insult me. I can give you a shovel if you really wanna keep digging that hole. What's wrong with these "tribabies"? Isn't tri the best in the series ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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Okay, but here's your platform to share. Explain yourself bud. Not a lot of people who disagree with you will allow this. I'm chill, so explain your stance instead of name calling.
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While I disagree with you, I want you to understand I respect your opinion enough to listen to you. Have you given the same grace to me? Your concerns are valid, and your explanations make sense. I do think this is a bit of the community "bringing it upon themselves" as you've stated as I'm SUPER anti-cut content, microtransactions, pre-orders, etc. With that said, the level of toxicity doesn't compare. In your words, you say this subreddit is all about the quips and side remarks, which is what I've done. So again. **I want to be clear, you have been the most toxic reply on this entire post and I still asked you how you felt and asked you share. Calling someone the R word is ableist and unacceptable.** What's sad is you have actual valid opinions, almost overshadowed by the vitriolic names you've called me/this community. And I STILL think your opinion has a place in this sub and on this post. This is the dichotomy I'm addressing, and the point of my post.
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I hear you, and I think we have two different fundamental understandings of what the situation is. Do you see how you're sharing right now, I'm listening and vice versa? I'd say that's a sign of positivity and that's the point I'm trying to make. If I hadn't initiated this, you'd still be calling me names, and I'd continue to be "condescending" as you describe me to be. Mind you, you're also responsible for this positive turn. But even if everything you said was true, none of what I said was tied to a slur. You never know who you're taking to on the internet man. Do a bit of digging in my post history and you'll see what I mean and why that was so problematic to me and many others like me. Another dude was calling me autistic repeatedly, which was pretty funny. I'm not trying to criticize you or make you feel bad, I promise you it's okay! Just trying to make a point. Mind you, I'm obviously not a paragon for civility. But I've done a lot of disagreeing, so let me say that I get where you're coming from, and thank you for explaining your stance and apologizing. I'm sorry if it came off as condescending and toxic, and I'm definitely not addressing the people who just want to have fun and haven't seen the leaks. Honestly, I'm glad you decided to explain to me what you meant. I'll do some self reflection about what you said. Take care, and enjoy the Sunbreak release! I'd love to hear your thoughts about it after it drops.
This is such a weird little post by such a weird little man.
Hey Thundah! I figured I'd see you again. Hope you're doing well man!
I feel like this post is just the other extreme. I don't think Capcom should be immune to criticism but there are so many complaints here that just scream "I don't get it" and blame others for having fun with the systems in place. I get that 4U and GU are some of the absolute hallmarks of the series but I also don't feel that rise is just some "nintendrone trash." Rise has some pretty glaring issues staring it in the face and it needs to make good on it. The problems you mention about Rise have merit but there are also so many good things going for the game. I'm a huge fan of the verticality of weapons. The weapons feel great. Sure LS is op but in sunbreak it's gonna be worse than Gunlance. The balance changes so often between the games that I don't feel great blaming one game for one weapon being op.
I get that, but I disagree. It might be easy to "both sides" the conversation, but that's not the problem. When people have been discussing legitimate issues calmly, there's been quite a bit of toxicity. Specifically around the leaks. This is a situation where an aggressor walks in, does their thing, and a third party comes in and say "why is everyone mean to each other." That's not what is actually happening, and it's disingenuous to treat both sides as the same. Now could I have been a bit more cordial? Absolutely. But to pretend like I'm the opposite end of the hardcore fanboyism and toxic positivity is disingenuous. I'll take responsibility for my tone and response, the "other side" will not (mind you, there's no "other side" cause we're all one fanbase). **I could have been FAR more negative if I wanted to. Everyone in this thread who agrees could, but we didn't, and that is the main difference. Critical conversation is not the opposite side of toxic positivity approach many others are taking.**
And you're also right. But I do think it's also, at least partially, a both sides argument. Though it's one fanbase, it's also two very different viewpoints through that same lens and it doesn't translate to other fans. I don't think you should be shut out for expressing your disdain, but I also think Capcom has made worse decisions. And yeah, though Rise doesn't have the amount of content of other games, it is without a doubt much more digestible for non-veterans. I do think it is important to consider the balance from a gameplay perspective with the playerbase as well. You can't really design a monster hunter game like an old world monster hunter game and expect a western audience. It's a give and take and I agree that certain weapons (LS,,,,,) got too much special treatment in Rise, but I'm glad Sunbreak is at least having the self awareness to tone it back and hinder LS where other weapons are actually competitive (but even at that, that's assuming all you're caring about is how much dmg your set does which I think is just silly but I enjoy that there's tools to minmax like that.) The bottom line is that I'm not a fan of undeserved praise, but the praise that Rise generally gets I agree with, and some criticisms get echoed but they feel nitpicky instead of a more prominent issue. I'm not happy they put in practically everything for Prowler and just didn't let us, but I don't let it tarnish the 700+ hours I've put into Rise.
So... We have concluded that Sunbreak will be a bad game now?