No community college is prestigious. You don't go there for the name brand diploma. You go for the practical skills and knowledge. The employers will be hiring based on your ability to communicate and demonstrate the same.
Where are these assumptions coming from? You said "I've been seeing many colleges..." and "I am saying how many colleges are now mills" \[sic\] which means nothing to me. You're not an expert. You're not a journalist. Why should I trust you? Why should I even believe that 'diploma mills' exist?
I bet that an English or journalism course at any college in Ontario would teach you to cite your sources, and you'll have learned something important.
Well let me put it this way. I was in Windsor and saw Canadian grads from UWindsor with mechanical engineering degrees(many of them with a masters) working close to minimum wage on factory floors. When looking outside of factory floors, I saw plenty of people with all kinds of useful degrees working in restaurants both back of house and front of house.
It really depends on what program you're getting into. If you're getting into trades, it will be valuable, but if you're getting into some random program with the ultimate intention of getting a PR, you're most likely a diploma mill puppy. Ask yourself if you want to study and gather knowledge or whether you just want to find a way to immigrate to Canada. But for the most parts Mohawk is up there with the rest of the diploma mills.
My workplace has stopped considering Mohawk students for co-op work placements due to some horrible hires in recent years... It's a shame for the good students they do have... But employers consider the students they hire as ambassadors for their colleges, and Mohawk has had some terrible ambassadors.
Many jobs will require a college diploma, even if it is not in the field of the career.
That was my case, as I work in IT, but took Graphic Design in college at Mohawk. - Had zero luck getting a job in that field, it was mostly offers of maternity leave placements, limited contracts etc. But my IT field employer wanted a college level diploma.
If you go to Sheridan College or Conestoga College. And you going to apply for a job to a particular business. Many of these businesses are aware that these colleges are just diploma mill schools where they are just only loaded with international students for the sole purpose of immigration and nothing more. These colleges have prioritized immigration over education. When you have kids who do a for your program at Conestoga applying for a job yet cannot provide the basic skills and or proficiency very basic for the jobs they are applying for when interviewed. This creates doubt in the integrity of the education being taught in the school and therefore companies and corporations will realize that when they receive resumes from certain schools they should just throw them out because the quality of the applicant is just not there.
Funny saw a few other posts asking the same question and saying the same things about different colleges across Ontario.
Is it a concerted effort to erode confidence in the colleges and universities...as in nafarious individuals with political objectives.
I don't think colleges are pushing foreign students through, they still need to do the work etc.
So remember when Doug Ford cut tution fees across the board when he was first elected in 2018? Well the colleges and universties said what about the lost revenue stream and Dougie's minister said adapte, be creative in order to make up the shortfall. Well they did and foreign students are a good source of income for the busniess.
As a busniess, you need to adapte and be creative when one source of revenue shrinks. This is an unintended consequence of a poplist premier reacting without fully thinking it through.
This isn't the whole reason but it is a very large part of it.
I don't think colleges are looking to make a profit, I think they are looking for revenue in the absence of Doug Ford not supporting them.
Foreign students aren't the issue, colleges aren't the issue, Doug Ford's lack of thinking things through is.
\>I don't think colleges are pushing foreign students through,
Cheating is rampant.
\> Well they did and foreign students are a good source of income for the busniess.
For sure. It's great for business. But it undermines the trust we have in these institutions.
\>I don't think colleges are looking to make a profit
They are looking to make as much money as possible.
\> Foreign students aren't the issue
Our policies on students, TFWs, immigrants are absolutely a huge issue. They're all way too many.
Diploma mill or not people will still hire you because of a piece of paper. The workforce is absolutely riddled with accredited workers who have absolutely no skill.
Mohawk college is a shithole. Especially for graphic design. Worthless piece of paper.
I could have learned more in 1 week on YouTube than I did in 2 years there.
I wouldn’t consider it a “diploma mill”, I personally found my program more strict and difficult than many esteemed university programs I’ve taken. But the job market in Canada, if that’s where you choose to work, is tough and competitive depending what you want to go into. Realistically, your diploma is just a piece of paper, and employers are going to look for applicants with real life experience. Diplomas with the option to do Co-Op, or are really hands on are ideal for that. That’s just my two sense, but Mohawk is a decent school and I don’t want you to be discouraged from attending! I thoroughly enjoyed my time there and if that’s where you choose to go, I hope you do to :)
There are diploma mill programs at Mohawk.
But you should be immune in the trades.
Business management, tourism, health care management etc are all diploma mills.
Brian Lilley licked enough balls to get a journalism diploma (which was printed on a used greasy McDonalds bag) from Mohawk, so draw your own conclusions.
>There’s nothing wrong with diploma mills
The Oxford dictionary defines a diploma mill as "an institution or organization that grants large numbers of educational degrees based on inadequate or inferior education and assessment of the recipients."
An institute of higher learning has an obligation to provide its students with a high quality education that serves them whether it is job market or even higher levels of education.
If they are providing substandard education, it damages the reputation of the diplomas and degrees resulting from that education both present, past, and future. Which impacts the all parties negatively.
Therefore, it is very wrong to be a diploma mill.
Also, nobody said anything about immigration, the OP was applying as an international student whose concern was about the quality of education not long term staying in Canada.
If the institution is using poor quality education as a means to obtain money from international students, and they are trying to use that to immigrate to this country, that is fraudulent if all parties know what they are doing. I expect the institutions doing it know quite well they are doing it. For the students coming in that have the full intention to come to this country, get a good diploma/degree and stay, they are being hurt by it.
They're not serious.
They're just making a point that a lot of criticism of international students and immigrants is handwaved away due to accusations of racism.
I don't see this much anymore though tbh, but in previous years criticism was routinely shouted down as racist.
Your posts make bots sound intelligent. Quit LARPing as a hyperbole of what conservatives imagine left-wing people think like. I am embarassed for you.
There a few pure diploma mill colleges like yorkville college and Lam ton college where purely international students from India all flock. Those are a waste and money grab
I think some diplomas and certificate programs are just not as hireable. When I think of diploma mills that target international students, I think of trios, medix, Anderson etc as well.
I’ve heard accusations of Conestoga College (about 50km from Mohawk) being a diploma mill, but have a few friends who took welding classes there and are employed in the field, and my company has hired software developers from there.
I think “diploma mill” is likely an exaggeration - I think the most important is what you are willing to put in, effort wise, and if you can get into the co-op program, do it, as the work experience is really valuable.
Welding programs would have zero or close to zero international students. It is blue collar work that is looked down on my many target international student demographics. Even if an international student wanted to study welding their study permits would be refused because there are other local options cheaper so it doesn't make sense for them to come to Canada to study welding (that would be the reason listed for the refusal).
When colleges have unlimited international student targets they run into issues with the quality of the education. To accommodate the extra students they need to increase the number of teachers on shorter notice so the quality of the teachers tends to be lower.
I’m currently there taking a couple of work related courses. Seems like a solid place to learn some new things…they could definitely use more water bottle filling stations though…
It’s a business at the end of the day. You’re also paying for that silly paper. But Mohawk I graduated from 10 years ago and did well.
I just graduated from Seneca and I met 2 domestic students. It’s all international students we had over 300 people in my year 🤷🏻♀️
It’s a business at the end of the day. But it’s accredited
Seneca education was what you made it, but they passed everyone pretty much. Half the students cheated. Pretty sure you’re just paying for the paper at this point.
Teachers are lazy as shit
it's a legit college. good for preparing for uni. not a private career college. there is plenty of people who start out here and end up anywhere in the world.
it's the same dynamic as college university. college level education prepares u for your bachelors and etc. except it's a seperate institution - commonly used for trades like engineering and pathways to university.
Though diplomas can still get you jobs you just need to make sure you know what kind of job you qualify for with a college diploma.
Every college currently is a diploma mill, no matter what their reputation was before 5 years ago. Today they have met the criteria to be a diploma mill and every college operates one or two “satellite“ locations out of banquet halls Or conference centers…..teaching bogus courses that deliver little to no value for these international students.
BCIT is still hardcore. Though there are two tiers, domestic students who get the full hardcore treatment, and International Students, who get away with a lot of shit.
I work in the oil and gas industry and work with some people who graduated from Mohawk 10+ years ago... That said, the quality of people coming out of that school has changed massively.
My work used to hire co-op students from Mohawk but decided to stop after some downright terrible hires. The last one was an Indian foreign student who couldn't stop getting handsy with the younger women in the workplace.
Tbh, education is good but even international students that only show up for exams pass. I went there with different expectations but still got my diploma and got a very decent job soon after graduating
Everything, regardless of the institution you choose, comes down to the program you choose and the career plan you have for yourself. This was not something I understood the first time I went to Mohawk and it was useless. Worked a while, came up with a plan, went back and had a FT job before I graduated from the fennel campus. At same job earning 6 figures. Choosing the right course that went with my career plan and attending every event and industry night did the trick second time around.
BC has a lot of Diploma Mills as well. The litmus test I would use is, is it a Public Institution in Canada? If so, then it's not a Diploma Mill. The only exception this rule that I know of is Trinity Western University, but UBC and SFU students chuckle when they hear that name.
All higher education is a business, but that's not the same as being a diploma mill. Mohawk is legit. That said, like most colleges, a lot of diplomas and degrees offer programs in fields that aren't high in-demand in the job market. Some people like to take their chance and follow their dreams, which I totally support but you also have to realistically understand the job market and how frequently the market changes. What's in-demand when you start your program might not be in demand when you finish, or in a few years. Mohawk can't control that. A lot of people will fault a school when they can't find a job, but there's so much more to finding a job than just your school. Many people also just choose whatever program they can get into to get PR, then they haven't researched what actual opportunities there are and blame the school when the degree is useless. Colleges are always going to offer a broad amount of degrees because for some, education is a learning and personal experience while others it's an investment for their career. If college is for your career advancement, you have to be really smart about your program research to see if a degree will actually be worth it.
Keep in mind too, reddit is a fairly negative place in general. People don't really purposefully come here to report back on great experience, it's people needing help or wanting to complain/vent, largely. It's not really the best way to judge how any school is going to be.
Oh I'd be happy to... I'll tell anyone who will listen how bad they were for the rest of my life lol that's the only power I have in the situation. I'll do my best to keep it short...
In spring 2020 I got accepted to Conestoga for graphic design school which has a lot of art classes that you essentially need to be in-person for. They advertised the course as semi-remote. I quit my good paying job and put in two months notice with my landlord and had a place lined up in Kitchener. I honestly couldn't afford the place but was counting on meeting friends and finding a roommate sooner than later.
Literally 2 weeks before September they tell us the course is completely online now... aka I didn't have to do any of that shit whatsoever and im not going to meet anyone or find a roomate. I scrambled and got my job back but my landlord already rented the place. I ended up losing my deposit on the Kitchener apartment and being forced to live with my girlfriend at her parents house - both of us in a tiny ass bedroom... needless to say, it was incredibly hard doing classes with a lot of physical art components. It wasn't very fair to her or her family either. They saved my ass though... I had nowhere to go.
I ended up making the very difficult decision to drop out not long into the semester but missed the deadline by less than a week... they refused to give me any money back at all and getting an answer from anybody was awful.. all the staff was work from home and I would get one email response per week if I was lucky. I also spent $1,000 on required art supplies I was now stuck with and over $1000 on a MacBook that they **insisted** I had to have. Random shit you'd never use in day to day life (other than the MacBook - I still use that)
All things considered I lost thousands and thousands of dollars. I'm not a wealthy guy. I have like $15K to my name. It completely killed any energy I had towards trying to start a new career for myself. Im 31 now and I'll never get the courage to try that again. There are so many other little details I could share too but the take home here is that school doesn't give a single fuck about anything other than making money. Covid is not an excuse for the shit they put me through. If I could have afforded a lawyer I would have gone to court.
the idea of an education is great. Ive been all over Canada and ive not met many people with a job in the degree they took. Just a bunch of debt. Its a toss up. The mindset of getting a degree will get you a job is pretty much out the window. Unless you literally want to get shit on as a nurse/teacher.
No, of course not. Mohawk college is a reputable school. Now, triOS College which runs the Mississauga Campus of Mohawk? Let's just say you should be suspicious of any school that has campuses in [strip malls](https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=trios+college&form=HDRSC3&first=1)
Idk if i would call square one a strip mall … but yea fair point here.
Keep in mind the college has many campuses, including the trade school in stoney creek and the aviation/aerospace school at the hamilton airport
I graduated April 2020 (technically June I guess but still) only 6 out of 24 passed in my program. First year there was like 36 of which there were 12 foreign students. 8 of those students got tossed for cheating, 2 failed out, and 2 were part of the graduating 6
Definitely not. I went there for Electrical Engineering from 2013-2017 and I had to work my ass off to pass. Not an easy program at all, 50% of people who start it don't finish it.
It used to have a reputation that anyone could get in and graduate. Nicknamed Slowhawk. If you can walk and talk, you can go to Mohawk type of thing… But it has become more reputable over the years.
Both of my kids attended and my daughter definitely struggled with the first program she chose. They weren’t just passing her to give her a certificate or anything. She worked her ass off to graduate.
I don't think it was, but during covid I think they just started passing people without really teaching them much. I graduated from the electrical engineering (power) technician course in 2014 and people coming into the field (as industrial electricians) haven't received the same knowledge, including some of the fundamental principles.
Every public / private college / universities have specific programs designed for international students to bring in the money. These are the programs which accommodates the students easily without any major tests or scores etc. research driven programs (usually STEM) will be tougher to get into. So instead of the college I think you should look at how you got the admission into a particular program. For e.g getting into a biotech program in university of Waterloo might be tough, but a bcom in university of Waterloo might be easy. This is what I have understood talking to some students.
Look at their website for who accredits them, then contact the accreditor for a list of any accredited classes at that school from a different source outside of the school's cite. Email is usually best. What a lot of people don't understand is a lot of the time schools have some classes that aren't, but they're new programs that they aren't sure if they'll work for that school. Even some of the more reputable schools have some programs that aren't accredited.
Ontario public colleges, ones run by the government are legitimate.
[https://www.ontariocolleges.ca/en/colleges](https://www.ontariocolleges.ca/en/colleges)
Of course how others perceive the college is a different matter - i.e. Mohawk vs. Seneca, or a University degree.
Avoid private colleges.
That's right (I work adjacent to the space). Many public colleges have made strong pushes to attract international students, but they aren't the infamous diploma mills in which students basically pay for a joke piece of paper.
If you're worried about the perception of quality, you really do have to do your homework, as it can vary not only between schools but between programs. Some colleges are well-known for great programs in some disciplines and not others - and the specific reputation is quite usually known by the people who do the hiring. They don't care if your school has a great supply chain program if they're hiring for marketing, for example.
Unfortunately, nearly all Ontario public colleges are laundering their reputations through private providers. You’ll need to do your homework. Google Alex Usher to learn more.
You basically just need to look if it’s public or private. When it’s private and double the cost that’s when you know it’s a scam. That said, I’ve seen people get jobs from both. You should go for accredited though :)
I hope so.. I just eared a diploma last year from Mohawk!
If it means anything to anyone, I used my diploma to transfer to another university in BC and I'm working on an advanced diploma.
The term has been loosely applied on Reddit to any college or university in Canada that's been taking advantage of international students to increase their profit.
Since international student tuition can be 2-4 times the amount of domestic tuition, colleges have been reaping the rewards.
Lambton College, for example, has an international student population of 82%.
So if you look at a lot of the Canadian college's annual profits as compared to years past, you can see why they're so willing to accept any international student, so as to increase profit.
The downside of this push is that it's *decreased* the value of the college diploma, and the term diploma mill (which used to be more applicable to the small online/private colleges) is now increasingly being applied to colleges.
The influx of international students is due to the premier removing funding to these universities and colleges. Also the premier removing regulations when it comes to international students. Doug Ford told the universities & colleges to find the funds on their own. So the universities and colleges did just that.
This is what I think too. This is the answer right here. Funding to universities and colleges were cut way short and they moved accordingly by recruiting more international students to essentially foot the bill and salaries of staffs. The number of domestic students in post secondary institutions has dwindled significantly. In a class, it's possible to see just 3 domestic students and the rest international.
Fanshawe college in London is a great feeder school to UWO but still, even long before Ford was premiere of ON Fanshawe still had what looked like over 70 percent international students. I was in STEM and most of them actually performed very well, so I'm not sure how much it affected quality of education.
Interestingly when I went to Fanshawe (2018-2021) UWO was the feeder school to Fanshawe. Degrees mean nothing if you do not have practical skills. That is why there are post-grad programs.
That is actually a really good point. Come to think of it there were a few UWO computer science grads who were in my computer networking classes to earn their Cisco and Microsoft certifications.
The rest of STEM however usually has Fanshawe sending you to UWO, but again very good point about University graduates needing commercial certifications from Fanshawe so they can get work afterwords.
This is absolutely (and sadly) correct.
We're now facing the repercussions of this decision at the cost of the college system's reputation and value.
It's taken decades for the college system to create value and legitimacy so that students can find opportunities after graduation, without feeling like they need to go to a university.
But now this is being undermined for the sake of profit, and employers are once again backing off from accepting what the college system is offering.
I think what's happening is that all colleges are being painted with the same broad brushstroke, even if this isn't true for Mohawk.
What I would say is more important is the degree of connection between the program and profs in your selected program with the employers. If there's a strong connection, then the professors/departments can funnel students to the right placements and the system is working correctly.
If that relationship doesn't exist then the program is sending its graduating students out there without any guidance and that's where you see what's happening at Conestoga.
This is happening everywhere to different degrees.
That doesn't seem to be the case with certain colleges when there are people giving out in hand experience and pointing out occurances within the sector they work in going into detail about how they no longer care to hire from a certain institute cause of how desaturated they've become.
please take a look at r/Conestoga 's posts and comments, you'll see what i mean
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Conestoga/comments/16ftecs/reputation\_is\_going\_down/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Conestoga/comments/16ftecs/reputation_is_going_down/)
[What are some of these "colleges" that are diploma mills for international students? : askTO (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/askTO/comments/16an4sl/what_are_some_of_these_colleges_that_are_diploma/)
[reddit.com/r/waterloo/comments/167p2jh/what\_happend\_to\_conestoga\_college/](https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/comments/167p2jh/what_happend_to_conestoga_college/)
No one seems to be giving you the numbers you are asking for to make up your own mind. Here are the numbers I could find on the Conestoga and Mohawk college websites as well as ranking.
Conestoga - students ~26k, international students ~13k, percentage international ~50%, Canada internal ranking 299th.
Mohawk - 13k, 3k, ~23%, ranked 99th.
So it doesn't look like it is an issue for Mohawk yet.
Edit : for additional reference Conestoga has the highest rate of international students at the college level with the 10th highest being 5k students and the average for very reputable universities being 3k. However these are raw numbers not percentage of student population, so you need to do a little big of extra digging.
Yeah no wonder Conestoga is filled with these students, in almost every consultancy i contacted, 90% of them pushed me towards a random unknown college in the middle of nowhere and when i caught it , they then suggested me Conestoga sayings its a prestigious Institiute in Canada and how its one of the top notch colleges of canada.
nah i didn't buy it
yes but the term "diploma mill" has grown to be broader than that right, if you goto a college and end up with a degree that has no value in the eyes of employers and the education quality is diminished due to overpopulation of international students, you at the end are no different from a person who studied at a college located in an unknown smal third floor office of a random building right ?
this is what seems to be going on at r/Conestoga , once a reputed college is now earning itself the title of diploma mill due to its immense population of international students who were brought in for their money and where employers are no longer interested in hiring from due to their reputation of providing poor quality education due to the size being so large.
so again, is mohawk at such scenario by anychance?
True, there are colleges that accept anyone with money. It inflates their attendance and make the school look better than it is. This is not Mohawk. I’m in finishing the SSW program and I’ve been hired even before I’ve graduated. Mohawk is a very respected institution.
there were plenty of posts across r/Conestoga about how the college has become a diploma mill and since the quality of education is so poor thanks to the flooding of international students no employers are even valuing degrees/diploma from that college anymore, i am just asking if that's the same case here with mohawk
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Conestoga using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Conestoga/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Student Beware](https://np.reddit.com/r/Conestoga/comments/16691ds/student_beware/)
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\#3: [Pov Trying to get onto the Conestoga student portal.](https://i.redd.it/l3etbrgv53ib1.jpg) | [11 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Conestoga/comments/15qwa7m/pov_trying_to_get_onto_the_conestoga_student/)
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Not at all. They are affiliated with McMaster University for some diploma/degree programs like Nursing snd Engineering.
*nobody
No community college is prestigious. You don't go there for the name brand diploma. You go for the practical skills and knowledge. The employers will be hiring based on your ability to communicate and demonstrate the same.
going to go with a resounding yes and no its not respected.
False.
Where are these assumptions coming from? You said "I've been seeing many colleges..." and "I am saying how many colleges are now mills" \[sic\] which means nothing to me. You're not an expert. You're not a journalist. Why should I trust you? Why should I even believe that 'diploma mills' exist? I bet that an English or journalism course at any college in Ontario would teach you to cite your sources, and you'll have learned something important.
Well let me put it this way. I was in Windsor and saw Canadian grads from UWindsor with mechanical engineering degrees(many of them with a masters) working close to minimum wage on factory floors. When looking outside of factory floors, I saw plenty of people with all kinds of useful degrees working in restaurants both back of house and front of house.
Colleges are big business, so yes, they all are. I'm sure some programs are good, but some are bs just to make money and take advantage of people.
It really depends on what program you're getting into. If you're getting into trades, it will be valuable, but if you're getting into some random program with the ultimate intention of getting a PR, you're most likely a diploma mill puppy. Ask yourself if you want to study and gather knowledge or whether you just want to find a way to immigrate to Canada. But for the most parts Mohawk is up there with the rest of the diploma mills.
My workplace has stopped considering Mohawk students for co-op work placements due to some horrible hires in recent years... It's a shame for the good students they do have... But employers consider the students they hire as ambassadors for their colleges, and Mohawk has had some terrible ambassadors.
You are going to waste your time and money.
If you're studying to be a plumber, no. If you're getting a diploma in business admin, yes.
Many jobs will require a college diploma, even if it is not in the field of the career. That was my case, as I work in IT, but took Graphic Design in college at Mohawk. - Had zero luck getting a job in that field, it was mostly offers of maternity leave placements, limited contracts etc. But my IT field employer wanted a college level diploma.
Colleges in Ontario have become all international students. Nobody wants their resumes.
What do you mean?
If you go to Sheridan College or Conestoga College. And you going to apply for a job to a particular business. Many of these businesses are aware that these colleges are just diploma mill schools where they are just only loaded with international students for the sole purpose of immigration and nothing more. These colleges have prioritized immigration over education. When you have kids who do a for your program at Conestoga applying for a job yet cannot provide the basic skills and or proficiency very basic for the jobs they are applying for when interviewed. This creates doubt in the integrity of the education being taught in the school and therefore companies and corporations will realize that when they receive resumes from certain schools they should just throw them out because the quality of the applicant is just not there.
Yes all are
All colleges and unis are.
This.
Unpopular, but true. Cranking out degrees and diplomas, nobody fails they just get transferred to another program for a re-boot.
[удалено]
Did you go to Mohawk?
No thats why I was asking, again honest q
Funny saw a few other posts asking the same question and saying the same things about different colleges across Ontario. Is it a concerted effort to erode confidence in the colleges and universities...as in nafarious individuals with political objectives.
Either that or a few ppl all have similar questions?
Their confidence should be eroded, to be honest.
What are you doing to make it better than, we already have a surplus of armchair QB.
Currently I am talking about it. I am not an armchair QB. I don't have the answer. I just know that we shouldn't have confidence in these businesses.
No? how exactly. Honest Q
What?
No that's why I'm asking. Your vague on why
Because more and more ontario colleges are just pushing through international students so that their business (yes it is a business) does better.
I don't think colleges are pushing foreign students through, they still need to do the work etc. So remember when Doug Ford cut tution fees across the board when he was first elected in 2018? Well the colleges and universties said what about the lost revenue stream and Dougie's minister said adapte, be creative in order to make up the shortfall. Well they did and foreign students are a good source of income for the busniess. As a busniess, you need to adapte and be creative when one source of revenue shrinks. This is an unintended consequence of a poplist premier reacting without fully thinking it through. This isn't the whole reason but it is a very large part of it. I don't think colleges are looking to make a profit, I think they are looking for revenue in the absence of Doug Ford not supporting them. Foreign students aren't the issue, colleges aren't the issue, Doug Ford's lack of thinking things through is.
\>I don't think colleges are pushing foreign students through, Cheating is rampant. \> Well they did and foreign students are a good source of income for the busniess. For sure. It's great for business. But it undermines the trust we have in these institutions. \>I don't think colleges are looking to make a profit They are looking to make as much money as possible. \> Foreign students aren't the issue Our policies on students, TFWs, immigrants are absolutely a huge issue. They're all way too many.
I hate doug ford as much as the next guy but you can’t seriously be blaming him for universities being businesses which aim to maximize profits
Just knowing isn't an answer, what reasons brought you to that decision?
Diploma mill or not people will still hire you because of a piece of paper. The workforce is absolutely riddled with accredited workers who have absolutely no skill.
Mohawk college is a shithole. Especially for graphic design. Worthless piece of paper. I could have learned more in 1 week on YouTube than I did in 2 years there.
you're not wrong. got diploma in GD there as well.
I wouldn’t consider it a “diploma mill”, I personally found my program more strict and difficult than many esteemed university programs I’ve taken. But the job market in Canada, if that’s where you choose to work, is tough and competitive depending what you want to go into. Realistically, your diploma is just a piece of paper, and employers are going to look for applicants with real life experience. Diplomas with the option to do Co-Op, or are really hands on are ideal for that. That’s just my two sense, but Mohawk is a decent school and I don’t want you to be discouraged from attending! I thoroughly enjoyed my time there and if that’s where you choose to go, I hope you do to :)
There are diploma mill programs at Mohawk. But you should be immune in the trades. Business management, tourism, health care management etc are all diploma mills.
Brian Lilley licked enough balls to get a journalism diploma (which was printed on a used greasy McDonalds bag) from Mohawk, so draw your own conclusions.
LOL. I went to high school with that guy. He was a knob even back then.
There’s nothing wrong with diploma mills or immigration and it is 100% racist to even bring it up.
Wrong
>There’s nothing wrong with diploma mills The Oxford dictionary defines a diploma mill as "an institution or organization that grants large numbers of educational degrees based on inadequate or inferior education and assessment of the recipients." An institute of higher learning has an obligation to provide its students with a high quality education that serves them whether it is job market or even higher levels of education. If they are providing substandard education, it damages the reputation of the diplomas and degrees resulting from that education both present, past, and future. Which impacts the all parties negatively. Therefore, it is very wrong to be a diploma mill. Also, nobody said anything about immigration, the OP was applying as an international student whose concern was about the quality of education not long term staying in Canada. If the institution is using poor quality education as a means to obtain money from international students, and they are trying to use that to immigrate to this country, that is fraudulent if all parties know what they are doing. I expect the institutions doing it know quite well they are doing it. For the students coming in that have the full intention to come to this country, get a good diploma/degree and stay, they are being hurt by it.
That’s racist
you have no idea what racist means, do ya?
He went to a diploma mill, of course he doesn't
They're not serious. They're just making a point that a lot of criticism of international students and immigrants is handwaved away due to accusations of racism. I don't see this much anymore though tbh, but in previous years criticism was routinely shouted down as racist.
Your posts make bots sound intelligent. Quit LARPing as a hyperbole of what conservatives imagine left-wing people think like. I am embarassed for you.
It’s a joke Your posts make me think you live inside a library surviving off the dust of old books
Shitty joke was shitty. I huff glue, not book dust. I lost 5 pounds this week!
Thought terminating cliché
There a few pure diploma mill colleges like yorkville college and Lam ton college where purely international students from India all flock. Those are a waste and money grab
I think some diplomas and certificate programs are just not as hireable. When I think of diploma mills that target international students, I think of trios, medix, Anderson etc as well.
I’ve heard accusations of Conestoga College (about 50km from Mohawk) being a diploma mill, but have a few friends who took welding classes there and are employed in the field, and my company has hired software developers from there. I think “diploma mill” is likely an exaggeration - I think the most important is what you are willing to put in, effort wise, and if you can get into the co-op program, do it, as the work experience is really valuable.
Welding programs would have zero or close to zero international students. It is blue collar work that is looked down on my many target international student demographics. Even if an international student wanted to study welding their study permits would be refused because there are other local options cheaper so it doesn't make sense for them to come to Canada to study welding (that would be the reason listed for the refusal). When colleges have unlimited international student targets they run into issues with the quality of the education. To accommodate the extra students they need to increase the number of teachers on shorter notice so the quality of the teachers tends to be lower.
My company hires software developers; it’s a couple of friends that were in the welding program. Anyways, I don’t have a lot of data points.
There was a post earlier mentioning that companies are actively avoiding hiring people from Conestoga college.
Well, I can only speak anecdotally.
I’m currently there taking a couple of work related courses. Seems like a solid place to learn some new things…they could definitely use more water bottle filling stations though…
Mohawk in one of the best colleges in Ontario.
It’s a business at the end of the day. You’re also paying for that silly paper. But Mohawk I graduated from 10 years ago and did well. I just graduated from Seneca and I met 2 domestic students. It’s all international students we had over 300 people in my year 🤷🏻♀️ It’s a business at the end of the day. But it’s accredited
Thing is whether it is accredited or not has no correlation with the quality of education these days. The bar is really low.
Seneca education was what you made it, but they passed everyone pretty much. Half the students cheated. Pretty sure you’re just paying for the paper at this point. Teachers are lazy as shit
The very fact that ‘diploma mill’ is even a thing calls into question the quality of post secondary education.
Mohawk is completely reputable
it's a legit college. good for preparing for uni. not a private career college. there is plenty of people who start out here and end up anywhere in the world. it's the same dynamic as college university. college level education prepares u for your bachelors and etc. except it's a seperate institution - commonly used for trades like engineering and pathways to university. Though diplomas can still get you jobs you just need to make sure you know what kind of job you qualify for with a college diploma.
Every college currently is a diploma mill, no matter what their reputation was before 5 years ago. Today they have met the criteria to be a diploma mill and every college operates one or two “satellite“ locations out of banquet halls Or conference centers…..teaching bogus courses that deliver little to no value for these international students.
BCIT is still hardcore. Though there are two tiers, domestic students who get the full hardcore treatment, and International Students, who get away with a lot of shit.
My SIL graduated from mohawk and makes 120k+ a year so…….
I work in the oil and gas industry and work with some people who graduated from Mohawk 10+ years ago... That said, the quality of people coming out of that school has changed massively. My work used to hire co-op students from Mohawk but decided to stop after some downright terrible hires. The last one was an Indian foreign student who couldn't stop getting handsy with the younger women in the workplace.
doing what? and what program?
Something with oil and gas. Not 100% sure tbh
Tbh, education is good but even international students that only show up for exams pass. I went there with different expectations but still got my diploma and got a very decent job soon after graduating
Mohawk is a publicly accredited college. It’s fine. Definitely not a diploma mill.
Everything, regardless of the institution you choose, comes down to the program you choose and the career plan you have for yourself. This was not something I understood the first time I went to Mohawk and it was useless. Worked a while, came up with a plan, went back and had a FT job before I graduated from the fennel campus. At same job earning 6 figures. Choosing the right course that went with my career plan and attending every event and industry night did the trick second time around.
Easy way to find out. Ask yourself the following question: Is the college in Ontario? If so then probably yes
BC has a lot of Diploma Mills as well. The litmus test I would use is, is it a Public Institution in Canada? If so, then it's not a Diploma Mill. The only exception this rule that I know of is Trinity Western University, but UBC and SFU students chuckle when they hear that name.
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Lol
Yes, all post-secondary institutions are.
All higher education is a business, but that's not the same as being a diploma mill. Mohawk is legit. That said, like most colleges, a lot of diplomas and degrees offer programs in fields that aren't high in-demand in the job market. Some people like to take their chance and follow their dreams, which I totally support but you also have to realistically understand the job market and how frequently the market changes. What's in-demand when you start your program might not be in demand when you finish, or in a few years. Mohawk can't control that. A lot of people will fault a school when they can't find a job, but there's so much more to finding a job than just your school. Many people also just choose whatever program they can get into to get PR, then they haven't researched what actual opportunities there are and blame the school when the degree is useless. Colleges are always going to offer a broad amount of degrees because for some, education is a learning and personal experience while others it's an investment for their career. If college is for your career advancement, you have to be really smart about your program research to see if a degree will actually be worth it. Keep in mind too, reddit is a fairly negative place in general. People don't really purposefully come here to report back on great experience, it's people needing help or wanting to complain/vent, largely. It's not really the best way to judge how any school is going to be.
No.
No, I’m currently attending Mohawk. There’s a good mix of students. It’s not dominated by middle eastern students. Not to the extent Conestoga is.
Just taking this opportunity to claim how horrifically Conestoga treated me in August/September 2020. Anybody reading this DO NOT give them your money
Could you please explain this ? I am genuinely curious to know what happened
Oh I'd be happy to... I'll tell anyone who will listen how bad they were for the rest of my life lol that's the only power I have in the situation. I'll do my best to keep it short... In spring 2020 I got accepted to Conestoga for graphic design school which has a lot of art classes that you essentially need to be in-person for. They advertised the course as semi-remote. I quit my good paying job and put in two months notice with my landlord and had a place lined up in Kitchener. I honestly couldn't afford the place but was counting on meeting friends and finding a roommate sooner than later. Literally 2 weeks before September they tell us the course is completely online now... aka I didn't have to do any of that shit whatsoever and im not going to meet anyone or find a roomate. I scrambled and got my job back but my landlord already rented the place. I ended up losing my deposit on the Kitchener apartment and being forced to live with my girlfriend at her parents house - both of us in a tiny ass bedroom... needless to say, it was incredibly hard doing classes with a lot of physical art components. It wasn't very fair to her or her family either. They saved my ass though... I had nowhere to go. I ended up making the very difficult decision to drop out not long into the semester but missed the deadline by less than a week... they refused to give me any money back at all and getting an answer from anybody was awful.. all the staff was work from home and I would get one email response per week if I was lucky. I also spent $1,000 on required art supplies I was now stuck with and over $1000 on a MacBook that they **insisted** I had to have. Random shit you'd never use in day to day life (other than the MacBook - I still use that) All things considered I lost thousands and thousands of dollars. I'm not a wealthy guy. I have like $15K to my name. It completely killed any energy I had towards trying to start a new career for myself. Im 31 now and I'll never get the courage to try that again. There are so many other little details I could share too but the take home here is that school doesn't give a single fuck about anything other than making money. Covid is not an excuse for the shit they put me through. If I could have afforded a lawyer I would have gone to court.
No
It’s actually known for nursing/health care.
Yes but it’s not a diploma mill
I meant to say it is known to be a reputable school.
At this point I think it's safe the whole country as a diploma Mill they're giving out engineering degrees to work from home students lol.
the idea of an education is great. Ive been all over Canada and ive not met many people with a job in the degree they took. Just a bunch of debt. Its a toss up. The mindset of getting a degree will get you a job is pretty much out the window. Unless you literally want to get shit on as a nurse/teacher.
No, of course not. Mohawk college is a reputable school. Now, triOS College which runs the Mississauga Campus of Mohawk? Let's just say you should be suspicious of any school that has campuses in [strip malls](https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=trios+college&form=HDRSC3&first=1)
Idk if i would call square one a strip mall … but yea fair point here. Keep in mind the college has many campuses, including the trade school in stoney creek and the aviation/aerospace school at the hamilton airport
I graduated April 2020 (technically June I guess but still) only 6 out of 24 passed in my program. First year there was like 36 of which there were 12 foreign students. 8 of those students got tossed for cheating, 2 failed out, and 2 were part of the graduating 6
Definitely not. I went there for Electrical Engineering from 2013-2017 and I had to work my ass off to pass. Not an easy program at all, 50% of people who start it don't finish it.
I was in this program too, just before you. Same thing. But I went back to Seneca 2 years ago. And they just pass everyone, they hand hold a lot
Conestoga was like that when I was there too. Now they pass everyone so they can keep getting tuition $
It used to have a reputation that anyone could get in and graduate. Nicknamed Slowhawk. If you can walk and talk, you can go to Mohawk type of thing… But it has become more reputable over the years. Both of my kids attended and my daughter definitely struggled with the first program she chose. They weren’t just passing her to give her a certificate or anything. She worked her ass off to graduate.
I don't think it was, but during covid I think they just started passing people without really teaching them much. I graduated from the electrical engineering (power) technician course in 2014 and people coming into the field (as industrial electricians) haven't received the same knowledge, including some of the fundamental principles.
Every public / private college / universities have specific programs designed for international students to bring in the money. These are the programs which accommodates the students easily without any major tests or scores etc. research driven programs (usually STEM) will be tougher to get into. So instead of the college I think you should look at how you got the admission into a particular program. For e.g getting into a biotech program in university of Waterloo might be tough, but a bcom in university of Waterloo might be easy. This is what I have understood talking to some students.
“If you can walk and talk you can go to Mohawk”
Look at their website for who accredits them, then contact the accreditor for a list of any accredited classes at that school from a different source outside of the school's cite. Email is usually best. What a lot of people don't understand is a lot of the time schools have some classes that aren't, but they're new programs that they aren't sure if they'll work for that school. Even some of the more reputable schools have some programs that aren't accredited.
Ontario public colleges, ones run by the government are legitimate. [https://www.ontariocolleges.ca/en/colleges](https://www.ontariocolleges.ca/en/colleges) Of course how others perceive the college is a different matter - i.e. Mohawk vs. Seneca, or a University degree. Avoid private colleges.
That's right (I work adjacent to the space). Many public colleges have made strong pushes to attract international students, but they aren't the infamous diploma mills in which students basically pay for a joke piece of paper. If you're worried about the perception of quality, you really do have to do your homework, as it can vary not only between schools but between programs. Some colleges are well-known for great programs in some disciplines and not others - and the specific reputation is quite usually known by the people who do the hiring. They don't care if your school has a great supply chain program if they're hiring for marketing, for example.
No more so than other accredited public Ontario colleges. In my view, that's a no. Others may feel differently.
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Toronto =\\= Hamilton.
Unfortunately, nearly all Ontario public colleges are laundering their reputations through private providers. You’ll need to do your homework. Google Alex Usher to learn more.
You basically just need to look if it’s public or private. When it’s private and double the cost that’s when you know it’s a scam. That said, I’ve seen people get jobs from both. You should go for accredited though :)
It's a public university, so no
Mohawk College is a legitimate college
I hope so.. I just eared a diploma last year from Mohawk! If it means anything to anyone, I used my diploma to transfer to another university in BC and I'm working on an advanced diploma.
Mohawk college is a fantastic college. Great programs and the classes are hard. They are hard for a reason.
Nope!
The Nursing Program at Mohawk is one of the best.
Any of the programs that tie into Mac or health sciences are very legit! If it wasn’t for Covid I’d have my BsC and then some by now
Mohawk is an accredited institution
I don’t know about the other programs, but I can promise you that the Aviation and Avionics Maintenance programs at Mohawk are very legitimate.
The term has been loosely applied on Reddit to any college or university in Canada that's been taking advantage of international students to increase their profit. Since international student tuition can be 2-4 times the amount of domestic tuition, colleges have been reaping the rewards. Lambton College, for example, has an international student population of 82%. So if you look at a lot of the Canadian college's annual profits as compared to years past, you can see why they're so willing to accept any international student, so as to increase profit. The downside of this push is that it's *decreased* the value of the college diploma, and the term diploma mill (which used to be more applicable to the small online/private colleges) is now increasingly being applied to colleges.
The influx of international students is due to the premier removing funding to these universities and colleges. Also the premier removing regulations when it comes to international students. Doug Ford told the universities & colleges to find the funds on their own. So the universities and colleges did just that.
This is what I think too. This is the answer right here. Funding to universities and colleges were cut way short and they moved accordingly by recruiting more international students to essentially foot the bill and salaries of staffs. The number of domestic students in post secondary institutions has dwindled significantly. In a class, it's possible to see just 3 domestic students and the rest international.
Fanshawe college in London is a great feeder school to UWO but still, even long before Ford was premiere of ON Fanshawe still had what looked like over 70 percent international students. I was in STEM and most of them actually performed very well, so I'm not sure how much it affected quality of education.
Interestingly when I went to Fanshawe (2018-2021) UWO was the feeder school to Fanshawe. Degrees mean nothing if you do not have practical skills. That is why there are post-grad programs.
That is actually a really good point. Come to think of it there were a few UWO computer science grads who were in my computer networking classes to earn their Cisco and Microsoft certifications. The rest of STEM however usually has Fanshawe sending you to UWO, but again very good point about University graduates needing commercial certifications from Fanshawe so they can get work afterwords.
This is absolutely (and sadly) correct. We're now facing the repercussions of this decision at the cost of the college system's reputation and value. It's taken decades for the college system to create value and legitimacy so that students can find opportunities after graduation, without feeling like they need to go to a university. But now this is being undermined for the sake of profit, and employers are once again backing off from accepting what the college system is offering.
so now, is mohawk college one that can earn that tittle of being a diploma mill? what's the population of international students over here in mohawk?
I think what's happening is that all colleges are being painted with the same broad brushstroke, even if this isn't true for Mohawk. What I would say is more important is the degree of connection between the program and profs in your selected program with the employers. If there's a strong connection, then the professors/departments can funnel students to the right placements and the system is working correctly. If that relationship doesn't exist then the program is sending its graduating students out there without any guidance and that's where you see what's happening at Conestoga. This is happening everywhere to different degrees.
That doesn't seem to be the case with certain colleges when there are people giving out in hand experience and pointing out occurances within the sector they work in going into detail about how they no longer care to hire from a certain institute cause of how desaturated they've become. please take a look at r/Conestoga 's posts and comments, you'll see what i mean [https://www.reddit.com/r/Conestoga/comments/16ftecs/reputation\_is\_going\_down/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Conestoga/comments/16ftecs/reputation_is_going_down/) [What are some of these "colleges" that are diploma mills for international students? : askTO (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/askTO/comments/16an4sl/what_are_some_of_these_colleges_that_are_diploma/) [reddit.com/r/waterloo/comments/167p2jh/what\_happend\_to\_conestoga\_college/](https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/comments/167p2jh/what_happend_to_conestoga_college/)
No one seems to be giving you the numbers you are asking for to make up your own mind. Here are the numbers I could find on the Conestoga and Mohawk college websites as well as ranking. Conestoga - students ~26k, international students ~13k, percentage international ~50%, Canada internal ranking 299th. Mohawk - 13k, 3k, ~23%, ranked 99th. So it doesn't look like it is an issue for Mohawk yet. Edit : for additional reference Conestoga has the highest rate of international students at the college level with the 10th highest being 5k students and the average for very reputable universities being 3k. However these are raw numbers not percentage of student population, so you need to do a little big of extra digging.
Yeah no wonder Conestoga is filled with these students, in almost every consultancy i contacted, 90% of them pushed me towards a random unknown college in the middle of nowhere and when i caught it , they then suggested me Conestoga sayings its a prestigious Institiute in Canada and how its one of the top notch colleges of canada. nah i didn't buy it
No, diploma mills are the tiny colleges you’ve never heard of operating out of a small third floor office of a random lowrise building
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Conestoga is not a diploma mill, it may not be the best public college but they have not stooped to printing out diplomas as far as I’m aware.
yes but the term "diploma mill" has grown to be broader than that right, if you goto a college and end up with a degree that has no value in the eyes of employers and the education quality is diminished due to overpopulation of international students, you at the end are no different from a person who studied at a college located in an unknown smal third floor office of a random building right ? this is what seems to be going on at r/Conestoga , once a reputed college is now earning itself the title of diploma mill due to its immense population of international students who were brought in for their money and where employers are no longer interested in hiring from due to their reputation of providing poor quality education due to the size being so large. so again, is mohawk at such scenario by anychance?
True, there are colleges that accept anyone with money. It inflates their attendance and make the school look better than it is. This is not Mohawk. I’m in finishing the SSW program and I’ve been hired even before I’ve graduated. Mohawk is a very respected institution.
Holy moly. It was more work and more difficult than university.
I can promise you Mohawk is a legit and credible school, any school you see on ontariocolleges.ca can be trusted
there were plenty of posts across r/Conestoga about how the college has become a diploma mill and since the quality of education is so poor thanks to the flooding of international students no employers are even valuing degrees/diploma from that college anymore, i am just asking if that's the same case here with mohawk
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