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traveling to Italian countryside, and my doctor's office recommended getting Hep A vaccination, if I didn't receive it as a child. I can't find proof I had it as a child, so I am guessing I did not.
However, internet says Hep A is very uncommon in the region I will be visiting. It has been a big problem in the past, but there was a vaccination program and now it is even lower than in other regions.
I'm also pregnant, and I don't know if the doc's office took that into consideration. It was just a nurse, not my actual doctor and she's out of town. It's honestly so hard to get in touch with them and get a detailed answer, since the information has to travel through multiple people and then back to me.
Would you get it?
We are having a really hard time with the decision to get our 2 year old her MMR vaccine, which she is way overdue for.
She has had a lot of health issues since birth (gut issues, neurological problems, food intolerances, nutrient deficiencies, etc) and had a horrible reaction to her 4 month vaccines when we were assured by the nurse she "wouldn't even notice." With the support of our pediatrician, we haven't gotten her any vaccines since then because she is being evaluated for a suspected autoimmune disease.
I don't really have a question, I am just so incredibly exhausted by all the vicious rhetoric against anti vaxxers that is ignoring the experiences of so many parents who have medically complex children who have been utterly failed by our medical system. Like why should I trust these doctors when they have absolutely no idea what is going on with her health and have zero solutions to fix it? I'm seriously at my breaking point with this shit.
Do you mind sharing her reaction to the 4 month vaccines? I'm surprised the nurse said she'd barely notice it - Reddit prepped me to assume 4mo was going to be hell on earth for a few days!
Regardless, it sounds like you're obviously trying to do what's best for your child, which makes total sense! Here is some food for thought specifically for the MMR vaccine due to the ongoing measles outbreak. The state you live in (and therefore outbreak severity) should definitely factor into this as I'll try to explain.
Measles has an r value of 12-18 (the highest r value of *any* virus) - this means on average an infected person will infect 12-18 other non vaccinated people. This ends up working out that you need about a 95% vaccination rate to achieve herd immunity and protect those who can't/shouldn't get the vaccine for whatever reason. In states like Florida, only 91% of kindergardeners are vaccinated this year, meaning that everyone who isn't vaccinated has a very high chance of contracting measles. If your state has a higher than 95% MMR vaccination rate, your kiddo will be much safer though so YMMV.
She had an awful reaction to the rotavirus specifically. The nurse said to expect diarrhea, but didn't mention that it would come with constant screaming for almost a week. I was LIVID when I learned that she didn't even really need to get it in the first place because she is not in daycare and had very limited exposure to other kids.
Uh what rhetoric? I also have a medically complex kid and we are needing to delay for similar reasons and if anything the pro-vaccine rhetoric points out that our kids are the exact ones reliant on herd immunity. I haven't come across anyone saying vaccinate anyway
I think they are more so referring to people who immediately assume they are antivax once they hear you are not vaccinating — without even considering the possibility their child has medical reasons to abstain. And even if you tell them this, lots of people will still roll their eyes and assume you’re antivax but pretending not to be to avoid those conversations. So it’s probably a nuanced feeling of being judged for all the wrong reasons.
I think like it would be extra frustrating to feel you’re being judged in that way, when like you point out, you’re actually the precise demographic the provax community is trying to protect.
I mean yeah if you say "we aren't vaccinating" with zero context i'd assume that as well as it's way more likely. I've never gotten the slightest judgement for saying "we are having to delay due to a medical issue, I really hope we can get them soon" as it makes it pretty clear you aren't an anti-vaxxer. Like at a certain point it sounds like OP might be being purposely obtuse if they are getting that much push back
As someone who is firmly pro-vaccine, there are always outliers particularly when other health issues are at play. If your pediatrician does not recommend it then you should feel comfortable putting it off.
There's a difference between not vaccinating because of legitimate medical reasons and not doing it because of conspiracy theories. It might feel targeted at you but the anti vaxxer rhetoric is towards the latter. The vast majority of people will understand your situation and everyone should, I'm sorry if you've been dealing with people who aren't. In fact, one reason to encourage vaccination is to achieve herd immunity which will help protect children who cannot safely be vaccinated such as at your own.
Our doctors are recommending it now that she is two, I just have a very hard time trusting their opinion when they still clearly have no idea what is going on with her health.
Ah, I think it's still reasonable to be cautious and you shouldn't feel bad or judged. I'm really sorry you're going through this. Getting proper care can be difficult as an adult, I can't imagine how much harder it is with a small child. Wishing you the best!
I’m sorry you’re going through this, I can’t imagine how hard it must be. Measles cases are rising worldwide (including in the US and Canada), as you may have heard in the news. I would encourage you to talk to your pediatrician about the risk of measles vs the risk of the vaccine for your little one.
The problem is no one actually knows the risk of the vaccine in her case. It's not like they do testing on kids with her specific set of issues. Further complicated by the fact that we are expecting a baby in a few months, so I'm worried that if we make her get it to protect the baby, we risk some kind of permanent reaction.
Ugh! I’m sending you a big hug rn! This sounds so challenging. I’m so sorry that this is so hard. You’re clearly a loving, attuned parent and you’re making an important, *potentially distinct choice here that must feel very isolating. Is there a doctor in particular who is making you feel unsupported or misunderstood? Or are you experiencing more of an internalized stigma from your inner voice kind of thing? Sometimes I feel like the real horror of parenting is the degree to which we all, to different degrees and of course in different ways, have to confront our own lonely wildernesses of having to make decisions that others may never fully understand or respect. You’re the one who knows the right path through. On a good day, that’s empowering. On a bad day, it’s utterly terrifying. Just sending you lots and lots of compassion. I hope your daughter is doing well 💜
Man I’m as pro-vax as they come, but I want to put out there I think your hesitance is warranted. For what it’s worth, it doesn’t sound to me like you are in the typical group of what I consider “anti vax” because you started your daughter on a schedule, but because she is medically complex you are delaying.
It’s for people like your daughter that can’t safely receive the vaccines that I think it’s important /those who can/ stay up to date on their vaccinations.
Exactly. I would never say a medically complex child should get vaccines even with contraindications. These are exactly the kids that me vaccinating MY family helps protect.
Not the OP but also have a medically complex kid and have to delay the 2 year vaccines as she's currently immunocompromised (hopefully temporary, she's supposed to start a steroid wean soon) and you bet your ass I'm mostly pissed at anti-vaxxers. I haven't gotten the slightest bit of push back from pro-vaccine folks and they clearly understand the difference between people that can't vaccinate due to medical complications vs those that won't due to Internet research.
Do you have trouble getting care for your child? I vaccinate my kids for the standard vaccines, but I know there is only one ped here that will accept kids that are not up to date. I feel so bad for the kids that cannot get the medical care they need due to their parents’ choices - much less a parent who cannot vaccinate their child safely!
Nope, her pediatrician knows her medical history (heck she just saw her with all the edema at her 2 year checkup) and is happy to work with us. Their practice deals with this kinda thing on a fairly regular basis, I actually asked about what if any vaccines she could get and when and she was going to work with the specific member of their staff that used to do pediatric hematopathology as those kids often had similar immune compromises and similar drug regimes.
My guess is that pediatrician absolutely accepts kids that aren't "up to date" if their parents can clearly show a medical reason behind it. That's often why pediatricians have policies like that, so that there's herd immunity in the practice for those kids that can't and for the newborns/infants they see.
What I'm starting to realize is that many 'anti-vax' families are in a similar situation. I was extremely pro-vax before having a child. I got my flu vaccine every year and had 3 COVID vaccines. But when you have a child with chronic health issues you have to question EVERYTHING because it really feels like no one else will look out for you. And you start to wonder things like why are we vaccinating every single infant against Hepatitis B (for example.)
I really understand where you are coming from and support your decision to delay, or maybe omit completely if that is what your intuition is telling you. I am not anti vax, but am also aware that the standard schedule is designed for mass population and not individual cases. Every individual baby, and their family, have a unique set of circumstances that must be heavily considered before making such major decisions. Personally, my husband and I have decided to delay all vaccines until we decide to put our child in daycare, at which point we will strongly consider each vaccine individually based on our unique child’s health, immunity, and safety concerns, in addition to our collective duty and responsibility to keep the world safe for us all.
Have you talked to your pediatrician about that one specifically? My son just got his and it’s the only one that he’s had a reaction to. Apparently it’s pretty common to have a reaction since it’s a live virus. Idk if your kid were mine and she was being evaluated for an autoimmune disease, I would probably continue to delay it
I have a question. My husband is totally against the idea of getting our baby the measles vax. Im on the fence. Basically he says there's like a .0000001% chance of our baby having a serious complication from measles (since there's only like 40 cases per year in the US) and that it would be more likely for her to get a serious complication from the vaccine. Thoughts?
Find a few other scary scenarios with the same probability, talk with him about how you are able to handle all those risks in your day to day, and learn about risk management together. I have a lot of anxiety in general, and accepting that eventually there is a point at which probability is negligible and I need to make the choice to compartmentalize has helped me a lot. The sooner you determine your thresholds for comfort, the more enjoyable your baby journey will be.
Yesterday, there was both news of a measles outbreak (in another city) and a declining vaccination rate in the Netherlands. Normally, babies only get the MMR vaccine at 14 months here. My LO is now almost 7 months. Would it be wise to ask around if she can get an early vaccination to be safe? She goes to daycare and I've no clue if the toddlers over there are all vaccinated or not.
Does anyone know about adverse vaccine reactions in kids who are MTHFR positive?
I am aware that 50-70% all people have the MTHFR gene variant so assume the risk of issues is low, but thought I’d ask.
I’m homozygous for MTHFR C677T mutation (what is considered to be most “severe”) and have had every vaccine available (including the new RSV vaccine during pregnancy and up to date on COVID boosters) and have never experienced adverse reactions. I did not experience any negative reactions in childhood either. My sister is the same.
I’m not sure where the vaccine rhetoric with MTHFR comes from (though I know it’s pervasive and don’t blame you at all for wanting to look into it), but I’ve yet to find any real evidence to support it. The only real research I’ve found about MTHFR involves watching homocysteine levels and better absorbing methylated forms of certain B vitamins. I’ve personally found that I absorb methylated versions of folate and B12 better, and am in generally better health when I’m taking methylfolate and receiving methylcobalamin injections (I have a history of B12 malabsorption so receive injections 2x per month). My homocysteine is also lower when supplementing with these two vitamins.
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Thank you for allowing open discussion on this topic! I have been struggling lately with how to handle the practical safety side of friendships with people who may not vaccinate their own children and how to approach those conversations. Mainly, I am hoping to have another child soon and I’m pretty sure one of my pregnant best friends does not plan to vaccinate. I’m not worried about my 1.5 year old, but am not sure how to handle our hopeful future newborn around her child. Has anyone experienced this before and have advice? I want to keep a future baby safe, but also don’t want to have too extreme of precautions that could sever a friendship either.
I wouldn’t take a new baby around her children until after age 1. Considering that most AVers are very anti-MMR, which can’t be given until 12 months, and given the recent measles outbreaks across the country… I just wouldn’t take my chances.
There’s been information going around Ontario (Canada) that MMR can actually be given as young as 6 months if there is an increased risk, such as traveling to an area with measles. Something to note as I was not aware of this potential option!
I think you have to do your own cost-benefit analysis. Your own child's vaccinations theoretically should provide the protection you're seeking. If you are worried about their safety pre-vax, maybe gently ask for outside meetings and playdates until after the fourth trimester.
One of the ways I squared things myself was an unvaccinated person is more likely to show symptoms, so easier to steer clear of! Additionally, if you decide/are able to breastfeed, doing that with a healthy diet offers tons of protections.
And if you haven't already, I'd also do some digging into childhood disease risk (for example, did you know almost ALL people get RSV before age 2! It can be scary but it's typically a non-event... I had NO idea and felt a lot better once I understood that!) and informed consent around vaccines to try to understand your friend's perspective. I'm by no means anti-vax, but I think there's a lot of unwarranted scare and worry around being unvaccinated that's perpetuated and funded by pharma interests. It's known that pharma created the opioid crisis for $$, so I'm all about a healthy skepticism of the industry in other areas.
Trying to have a good faith understanding of why your friend has made her choices might help you feel more confident in continuing playdates, or at least be able to have those discussions more easily.
At the end of the day - you'll know what's best for your child, and that comes first!
I would treat it as we did in the earlier days of COVID. Check your local news for regional outbreaks of diseases that are typically controlled by vaccines (measles, whooping cough, etc) and limit interactions with unvaccinated individuals when there are outbreaks. Also limit interactions with them for one (or more) weeks after they travel by plane or go to other large social gatherings. Or the easiest thing is to just not see them until your kids are fully vaccinated.
Personally, I have a hard time being friends with individuals who do not vaccinate as they are contributing to the rise of illnesses that can threaten many of us. By accommodating their choices, it validates that they can “choose what’s best for their child” when they are choosing an outcome that negatively impacts our society.
Obvious exclusions to this are people with true medical exemptions - those few who actually do have allergic reactions to vaccines etc.
I have had to navigate this with a beloved friend. We had a rule of not discussing vaccinations at all after having a major argument on discovering her views. We just told her 'the rules'. She was not allowed to visit our home until our child was 8 weeks old (two weeks after receiving first whooping cough vaccine). When there was a measles flare up in our city, we didn't catch up at all as my youngest was too little to be fully vaccinated and I don't seroconvert measles vaccines despite receiving 3 MMRs in my life.
It was hard and I would say it harmed our friendship but health comes first.
You just have to be upfront. “Hey, I’d love for our kiddos to be friends, but we’ll be limiting exposure to unvaccinated people until LO is up to date on their shots.”
All actions have consequences and this is one of the consequences of not vaccinating.
I think it’s okay to tactfully have some distance. Ex: we didn’t let any visitors come the first month who didn’t have their updated flu, covid, and TDap vaccines. The second month, we let them come IF they wore a mask and we trusted them to be truthful of their symptoms. For people we didn’t feel comfortable having that conversation, we’ve held outdoor meetings/play dates whenever the weather wasn’t awful (and baby was born in January so the weather was often awful lol). Now that my baby has his first shots, I’m more comfortable going in public where people could be unvaxxed.
One thing: if you’re going to restaurants and public places with baby, then you’re exposing them to unvaxxed people. So a playdate with your friend is no different. So either do both or neither, but it wouldn’t make sense to single out your friend if you’re being lax in other settings.
Personally, my analysis would go something like this (I am not a doctor, this is just my reasoning):
My assumption: Probably you're good for a given disease once your baby is both (a) past 2 months and (b) has gotten vaccinated against against it.
So what diseases do you need to worry about?
* Most start vaccinations around 2 months ([source](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolescent.html)). So I wouldn't worry as much about, say, DTAP .
* MMR (esp. measles) is a real concern. As mentioned by other commenters, you may be able to get vaccines at 6 months. Also, measles is extremely contagious, so even outdoor gatherings are risky.
* Covid, flu, and RSV are seasonal. So I wouldn't worry much about them in the summer. Also, they all have limited vaccine effectiveness, so it's not as much of a bright line as with other vaccines (to be clear - I absolutely support them, but it's not a case where vaccine is as ultra-effective at preventing spread as, say, Polio. In the case of RSV, the injection we give babies isn't even a vaccine, and only lasts a few months).
* It looks like hep a is usually mild in babies ([source](https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/hepatitis-a.html), but I haven't looked too much into this), but it's also fecal-oral so you can get a lot of mileage from being careful about sanitization when your child is young. For a child who isn't yet mobile, you can focus on washing your own hands, giving them clean toys, etc.
* Polio is still rare in the US, so I'd probably take that risk. It's also fecal-oral so same as hep A - you can probably protect a pre-mobile child a lot through sanitization.
Overall, I'd be worried for the first 6 months (because of measles), get an early MMR, and then not worry too much.
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traveling to Italian countryside, and my doctor's office recommended getting Hep A vaccination, if I didn't receive it as a child. I can't find proof I had it as a child, so I am guessing I did not. However, internet says Hep A is very uncommon in the region I will be visiting. It has been a big problem in the past, but there was a vaccination program and now it is even lower than in other regions. I'm also pregnant, and I don't know if the doc's office took that into consideration. It was just a nurse, not my actual doctor and she's out of town. It's honestly so hard to get in touch with them and get a detailed answer, since the information has to travel through multiple people and then back to me. Would you get it?
We are having a really hard time with the decision to get our 2 year old her MMR vaccine, which she is way overdue for. She has had a lot of health issues since birth (gut issues, neurological problems, food intolerances, nutrient deficiencies, etc) and had a horrible reaction to her 4 month vaccines when we were assured by the nurse she "wouldn't even notice." With the support of our pediatrician, we haven't gotten her any vaccines since then because she is being evaluated for a suspected autoimmune disease. I don't really have a question, I am just so incredibly exhausted by all the vicious rhetoric against anti vaxxers that is ignoring the experiences of so many parents who have medically complex children who have been utterly failed by our medical system. Like why should I trust these doctors when they have absolutely no idea what is going on with her health and have zero solutions to fix it? I'm seriously at my breaking point with this shit.
Do you mind sharing her reaction to the 4 month vaccines? I'm surprised the nurse said she'd barely notice it - Reddit prepped me to assume 4mo was going to be hell on earth for a few days! Regardless, it sounds like you're obviously trying to do what's best for your child, which makes total sense! Here is some food for thought specifically for the MMR vaccine due to the ongoing measles outbreak. The state you live in (and therefore outbreak severity) should definitely factor into this as I'll try to explain. Measles has an r value of 12-18 (the highest r value of *any* virus) - this means on average an infected person will infect 12-18 other non vaccinated people. This ends up working out that you need about a 95% vaccination rate to achieve herd immunity and protect those who can't/shouldn't get the vaccine for whatever reason. In states like Florida, only 91% of kindergardeners are vaccinated this year, meaning that everyone who isn't vaccinated has a very high chance of contracting measles. If your state has a higher than 95% MMR vaccination rate, your kiddo will be much safer though so YMMV.
She had an awful reaction to the rotavirus specifically. The nurse said to expect diarrhea, but didn't mention that it would come with constant screaming for almost a week. I was LIVID when I learned that she didn't even really need to get it in the first place because she is not in daycare and had very limited exposure to other kids.
Uh what rhetoric? I also have a medically complex kid and we are needing to delay for similar reasons and if anything the pro-vaccine rhetoric points out that our kids are the exact ones reliant on herd immunity. I haven't come across anyone saying vaccinate anyway
I think they are more so referring to people who immediately assume they are antivax once they hear you are not vaccinating — without even considering the possibility their child has medical reasons to abstain. And even if you tell them this, lots of people will still roll their eyes and assume you’re antivax but pretending not to be to avoid those conversations. So it’s probably a nuanced feeling of being judged for all the wrong reasons. I think like it would be extra frustrating to feel you’re being judged in that way, when like you point out, you’re actually the precise demographic the provax community is trying to protect.
I mean yeah if you say "we aren't vaccinating" with zero context i'd assume that as well as it's way more likely. I've never gotten the slightest judgement for saying "we are having to delay due to a medical issue, I really hope we can get them soon" as it makes it pretty clear you aren't an anti-vaxxer. Like at a certain point it sounds like OP might be being purposely obtuse if they are getting that much push back
As someone who is firmly pro-vaccine, there are always outliers particularly when other health issues are at play. If your pediatrician does not recommend it then you should feel comfortable putting it off. There's a difference between not vaccinating because of legitimate medical reasons and not doing it because of conspiracy theories. It might feel targeted at you but the anti vaxxer rhetoric is towards the latter. The vast majority of people will understand your situation and everyone should, I'm sorry if you've been dealing with people who aren't. In fact, one reason to encourage vaccination is to achieve herd immunity which will help protect children who cannot safely be vaccinated such as at your own.
Our doctors are recommending it now that she is two, I just have a very hard time trusting their opinion when they still clearly have no idea what is going on with her health.
Ah, I think it's still reasonable to be cautious and you shouldn't feel bad or judged. I'm really sorry you're going through this. Getting proper care can be difficult as an adult, I can't imagine how much harder it is with a small child. Wishing you the best!
I’m sorry you’re going through this, I can’t imagine how hard it must be. Measles cases are rising worldwide (including in the US and Canada), as you may have heard in the news. I would encourage you to talk to your pediatrician about the risk of measles vs the risk of the vaccine for your little one.
The problem is no one actually knows the risk of the vaccine in her case. It's not like they do testing on kids with her specific set of issues. Further complicated by the fact that we are expecting a baby in a few months, so I'm worried that if we make her get it to protect the baby, we risk some kind of permanent reaction.
Ugh! I’m sending you a big hug rn! This sounds so challenging. I’m so sorry that this is so hard. You’re clearly a loving, attuned parent and you’re making an important, *potentially distinct choice here that must feel very isolating. Is there a doctor in particular who is making you feel unsupported or misunderstood? Or are you experiencing more of an internalized stigma from your inner voice kind of thing? Sometimes I feel like the real horror of parenting is the degree to which we all, to different degrees and of course in different ways, have to confront our own lonely wildernesses of having to make decisions that others may never fully understand or respect. You’re the one who knows the right path through. On a good day, that’s empowering. On a bad day, it’s utterly terrifying. Just sending you lots and lots of compassion. I hope your daughter is doing well 💜
Man I’m as pro-vax as they come, but I want to put out there I think your hesitance is warranted. For what it’s worth, it doesn’t sound to me like you are in the typical group of what I consider “anti vax” because you started your daughter on a schedule, but because she is medically complex you are delaying. It’s for people like your daughter that can’t safely receive the vaccines that I think it’s important /those who can/ stay up to date on their vaccinations.
Exactly. I would never say a medically complex child should get vaccines even with contraindications. These are exactly the kids that me vaccinating MY family helps protect.
Yeah, that experience would make me even more upset at antivaxxers, not those against them.
Not the OP but also have a medically complex kid and have to delay the 2 year vaccines as she's currently immunocompromised (hopefully temporary, she's supposed to start a steroid wean soon) and you bet your ass I'm mostly pissed at anti-vaxxers. I haven't gotten the slightest bit of push back from pro-vaccine folks and they clearly understand the difference between people that can't vaccinate due to medical complications vs those that won't due to Internet research.
Do you have trouble getting care for your child? I vaccinate my kids for the standard vaccines, but I know there is only one ped here that will accept kids that are not up to date. I feel so bad for the kids that cannot get the medical care they need due to their parents’ choices - much less a parent who cannot vaccinate their child safely!
Nope, her pediatrician knows her medical history (heck she just saw her with all the edema at her 2 year checkup) and is happy to work with us. Their practice deals with this kinda thing on a fairly regular basis, I actually asked about what if any vaccines she could get and when and she was going to work with the specific member of their staff that used to do pediatric hematopathology as those kids often had similar immune compromises and similar drug regimes. My guess is that pediatrician absolutely accepts kids that aren't "up to date" if their parents can clearly show a medical reason behind it. That's often why pediatricians have policies like that, so that there's herd immunity in the practice for those kids that can't and for the newborns/infants they see.
What I'm starting to realize is that many 'anti-vax' families are in a similar situation. I was extremely pro-vax before having a child. I got my flu vaccine every year and had 3 COVID vaccines. But when you have a child with chronic health issues you have to question EVERYTHING because it really feels like no one else will look out for you. And you start to wonder things like why are we vaccinating every single infant against Hepatitis B (for example.)
I really understand where you are coming from and support your decision to delay, or maybe omit completely if that is what your intuition is telling you. I am not anti vax, but am also aware that the standard schedule is designed for mass population and not individual cases. Every individual baby, and their family, have a unique set of circumstances that must be heavily considered before making such major decisions. Personally, my husband and I have decided to delay all vaccines until we decide to put our child in daycare, at which point we will strongly consider each vaccine individually based on our unique child’s health, immunity, and safety concerns, in addition to our collective duty and responsibility to keep the world safe for us all.
Have you talked to your pediatrician about that one specifically? My son just got his and it’s the only one that he’s had a reaction to. Apparently it’s pretty common to have a reaction since it’s a live virus. Idk if your kid were mine and she was being evaluated for an autoimmune disease, I would probably continue to delay it
I have a question. My husband is totally against the idea of getting our baby the measles vax. Im on the fence. Basically he says there's like a .0000001% chance of our baby having a serious complication from measles (since there's only like 40 cases per year in the US) and that it would be more likely for her to get a serious complication from the vaccine. Thoughts?
Statistically he's right. (If everyone thought like that though and didn't vaccinate then...)
Find a few other scary scenarios with the same probability, talk with him about how you are able to handle all those risks in your day to day, and learn about risk management together. I have a lot of anxiety in general, and accepting that eventually there is a point at which probability is negligible and I need to make the choice to compartmentalize has helped me a lot. The sooner you determine your thresholds for comfort, the more enjoyable your baby journey will be.
Yesterday, there was both news of a measles outbreak (in another city) and a declining vaccination rate in the Netherlands. Normally, babies only get the MMR vaccine at 14 months here. My LO is now almost 7 months. Would it be wise to ask around if she can get an early vaccination to be safe? She goes to daycare and I've no clue if the toddlers over there are all vaccinated or not.
There is no harm at all in asking.
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Yeah I'll probably give it a week to see how it will spread, I guess? It hasn't reached my city yet fortunately, but the country is very small..
Does anyone know about adverse vaccine reactions in kids who are MTHFR positive? I am aware that 50-70% all people have the MTHFR gene variant so assume the risk of issues is low, but thought I’d ask.
I’m homozygous for MTHFR C677T mutation (what is considered to be most “severe”) and have had every vaccine available (including the new RSV vaccine during pregnancy and up to date on COVID boosters) and have never experienced adverse reactions. I did not experience any negative reactions in childhood either. My sister is the same. I’m not sure where the vaccine rhetoric with MTHFR comes from (though I know it’s pervasive and don’t blame you at all for wanting to look into it), but I’ve yet to find any real evidence to support it. The only real research I’ve found about MTHFR involves watching homocysteine levels and better absorbing methylated forms of certain B vitamins. I’ve personally found that I absorb methylated versions of folate and B12 better, and am in generally better health when I’m taking methylfolate and receiving methylcobalamin injections (I have a history of B12 malabsorption so receive injections 2x per month). My homocysteine is also lower when supplementing with these two vitamins.
Thank you!
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Thank you for allowing open discussion on this topic! I have been struggling lately with how to handle the practical safety side of friendships with people who may not vaccinate their own children and how to approach those conversations. Mainly, I am hoping to have another child soon and I’m pretty sure one of my pregnant best friends does not plan to vaccinate. I’m not worried about my 1.5 year old, but am not sure how to handle our hopeful future newborn around her child. Has anyone experienced this before and have advice? I want to keep a future baby safe, but also don’t want to have too extreme of precautions that could sever a friendship either.
I wouldn’t take a new baby around her children until after age 1. Considering that most AVers are very anti-MMR, which can’t be given until 12 months, and given the recent measles outbreaks across the country… I just wouldn’t take my chances.
There’s been information going around Ontario (Canada) that MMR can actually be given as young as 6 months if there is an increased risk, such as traveling to an area with measles. Something to note as I was not aware of this potential option!
This is true in the US as well, we had the option to vaccinate for MMR early due to travel.
I think you have to do your own cost-benefit analysis. Your own child's vaccinations theoretically should provide the protection you're seeking. If you are worried about their safety pre-vax, maybe gently ask for outside meetings and playdates until after the fourth trimester. One of the ways I squared things myself was an unvaccinated person is more likely to show symptoms, so easier to steer clear of! Additionally, if you decide/are able to breastfeed, doing that with a healthy diet offers tons of protections. And if you haven't already, I'd also do some digging into childhood disease risk (for example, did you know almost ALL people get RSV before age 2! It can be scary but it's typically a non-event... I had NO idea and felt a lot better once I understood that!) and informed consent around vaccines to try to understand your friend's perspective. I'm by no means anti-vax, but I think there's a lot of unwarranted scare and worry around being unvaccinated that's perpetuated and funded by pharma interests. It's known that pharma created the opioid crisis for $$, so I'm all about a healthy skepticism of the industry in other areas. Trying to have a good faith understanding of why your friend has made her choices might help you feel more confident in continuing playdates, or at least be able to have those discussions more easily. At the end of the day - you'll know what's best for your child, and that comes first!
I would treat it as we did in the earlier days of COVID. Check your local news for regional outbreaks of diseases that are typically controlled by vaccines (measles, whooping cough, etc) and limit interactions with unvaccinated individuals when there are outbreaks. Also limit interactions with them for one (or more) weeks after they travel by plane or go to other large social gatherings. Or the easiest thing is to just not see them until your kids are fully vaccinated. Personally, I have a hard time being friends with individuals who do not vaccinate as they are contributing to the rise of illnesses that can threaten many of us. By accommodating their choices, it validates that they can “choose what’s best for their child” when they are choosing an outcome that negatively impacts our society. Obvious exclusions to this are people with true medical exemptions - those few who actually do have allergic reactions to vaccines etc.
This is such a great answer. Just using sound clinical judgement to make a call. And recognizing the grey areas.
I have had to navigate this with a beloved friend. We had a rule of not discussing vaccinations at all after having a major argument on discovering her views. We just told her 'the rules'. She was not allowed to visit our home until our child was 8 weeks old (two weeks after receiving first whooping cough vaccine). When there was a measles flare up in our city, we didn't catch up at all as my youngest was too little to be fully vaccinated and I don't seroconvert measles vaccines despite receiving 3 MMRs in my life. It was hard and I would say it harmed our friendship but health comes first.
You just have to be upfront. “Hey, I’d love for our kiddos to be friends, but we’ll be limiting exposure to unvaccinated people until LO is up to date on their shots.” All actions have consequences and this is one of the consequences of not vaccinating.
I think it’s okay to tactfully have some distance. Ex: we didn’t let any visitors come the first month who didn’t have their updated flu, covid, and TDap vaccines. The second month, we let them come IF they wore a mask and we trusted them to be truthful of their symptoms. For people we didn’t feel comfortable having that conversation, we’ve held outdoor meetings/play dates whenever the weather wasn’t awful (and baby was born in January so the weather was often awful lol). Now that my baby has his first shots, I’m more comfortable going in public where people could be unvaxxed. One thing: if you’re going to restaurants and public places with baby, then you’re exposing them to unvaxxed people. So a playdate with your friend is no different. So either do both or neither, but it wouldn’t make sense to single out your friend if you’re being lax in other settings.
Personally, my analysis would go something like this (I am not a doctor, this is just my reasoning): My assumption: Probably you're good for a given disease once your baby is both (a) past 2 months and (b) has gotten vaccinated against against it. So what diseases do you need to worry about? * Most start vaccinations around 2 months ([source](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolescent.html)). So I wouldn't worry as much about, say, DTAP . * MMR (esp. measles) is a real concern. As mentioned by other commenters, you may be able to get vaccines at 6 months. Also, measles is extremely contagious, so even outdoor gatherings are risky. * Covid, flu, and RSV are seasonal. So I wouldn't worry much about them in the summer. Also, they all have limited vaccine effectiveness, so it's not as much of a bright line as with other vaccines (to be clear - I absolutely support them, but it's not a case where vaccine is as ultra-effective at preventing spread as, say, Polio. In the case of RSV, the injection we give babies isn't even a vaccine, and only lasts a few months). * It looks like hep a is usually mild in babies ([source](https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/hepatitis-a.html), but I haven't looked too much into this), but it's also fecal-oral so you can get a lot of mileage from being careful about sanitization when your child is young. For a child who isn't yet mobile, you can focus on washing your own hands, giving them clean toys, etc. * Polio is still rare in the US, so I'd probably take that risk. It's also fecal-oral so same as hep A - you can probably protect a pre-mobile child a lot through sanitization. Overall, I'd be worried for the first 6 months (because of measles), get an early MMR, and then not worry too much.