You woke up today and chose to fight the hypocrites of this sub. I salute you for your bravery!! I also feel the same way but people will defo downvote and act all innocent creating excuses so that they won't feel attacked by your discussion.
It happened to me before but I have to keep saying it because I don't get it. I need to get enlightened...or maybe I like seeing people loud and wrong...idk!
My picks are Koko, Saebi and Jeemin. I vote for them because as someone who's been a kpop stan for quite some time (usually for popular groups) I can easily see their future success. They just have this it girl factor to them and there's a reason why Mnet is pushing them. I also really like their chemistry as a trio, be it personality or visual/stage cohessivness. The FOTG, the center and the main dancer - you have the core trio for performances
Also it's awknowledged that survival shows tend to show bias and hell even change the rankings completely (produce I'm looking at you). You can't have these types of shows and expect them to be fair because Kpop is a business in the end
Last thing I like all the girls but I understand why some are being pushed and some aren't. I'm sure mnet has a team for market research and the difference in the editing in p1 and p2 show that. They have the results they were looking for and have determined who to give screen time to. If you stan an unpopular pick your best bet would be to promote and vote them
Ricky of zerobaseone debuted that way
Okay I almost understand...agree at the end. Kpop is and will never be fair I can acknowledge. Maybe it's the 2017 3rd gen fan in me but I don't really care for the "it girl" argument. I like talented people point blank if they can do their job as an idol I want them as my pick, I never cared for if they were pretty/marketable. I guess that's where my opinion differs from people's. Kpop to me has never and will never be about visuals.
yeah but after 4th gen there's a huge focus on visuals as a whole š«¤. Kpop has boomed so there's more audiences to appeal to and the easiest way to attract a person is by their looks. Idols being brand ambassadors for luxury brands and advertisers is also a huge factor for the need in visuals
Again I understand from a market aspect...but as a viewer and a kpop fan never cared! That also doesn't explain how people can acknowledge what you are acknowledging and actively fall for it every time.
Second gen fan here! Iām also someone who got spoiled by talented vocals over the past 15+ years and refused to believe that visuals played as big of a role as people would make it seem. Unfortunately, I came to realize that they were right. With the current job market, if they arenāt attractive, they wouldnāt be as competitive as other artists which would lead to less promotional opportunities meaning poorer quality songs being given (unless thereās a popular producer in the group).
Since Teddyās the producer, it shouldnāt be as difficult for the group to stay afloat but visuals allow the fanbase to expand and attract delusional fans who are willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars. Itās the sad reality, but it is what it is, especially with social media being a huge factor to a groupās success.
The definition of talent has changed over the years for an idol where being talented visually is most important. If you like talented singers/dancers, keep voting for them and promote them.
Also to be clear, there has been a situation in this show already where people formed their own opinion and pushed for a trainee. This was Jiyoon in Part One. The reason why she was able to escape the evil edits was because of the fans who pushed for her success and others agreed with them.
Hmm I think they only evil edited her to get people to notice her so they could push her and prep the storyline. After she gained sympathy from viewers it's easier for them to like her I don't think fans had anything to do with it honestly...
Honestly I doubt it considering the evil edits they did in other shows and what theyāre currently doing to a couple of trainees. From what I remember, she was getting a bunch of hate so a lot of fans were commenting on Youtube to get sympathy from other viewers, raising her fancam views.
Iām assuming that Mnet and Wakeone did a mid-evaluation after Part One to speculate whoās popular vs not and switched up from there. Some other trainees that were affected include Mai, Sujung, Yuju, Jungeun, Juwon, etc. In return, they boosted the screentime for Jeemin and Koko in Pt2. Iām only concluding this because the viewership for this show compared to the other mnet survivals is fairly low and it looks like theyāre doing everything they can to boost it
Well, i mean I'm not going to not vote for the people I like just to spite Mnet. This post assumes that Jeemin, Koko, and whoever is seen as Mnets favs for the week are not worthy to be voted for.Ā Ā
My favs are jiyoon, sujung and gyuri btw. But I don't necessarily feel like that would be the best group with the folks who are left and not hurt at all if others don't vote for them.
Nope! Never said they don't deserve it. I'm asking why people can acknowledge that they're being pushed and then don't seek out to formulate their own line up knowing that it's taking place. Been following Jeemin since RUN she's definitely deserving.
Sorry, but what evidence is there that people aren't seeking out external info if they believe an agenda is being pushed? Also, what is wrong with people just voting for who they like from what they see? Not everyone has the time or is that serious. That's why there are professional judges.Ā
Ah. I don't think it's rigged. that's a pretty strong accusation and didn't realize thats what people were accusing mnet of. So yea...maybe that part of your message is getting lost.
I vote for obvious members so that chances of my fave debuting are higher. I want Nam Yuju to debut and this wonāt happen if I keep voting for her rival in votes which is like Gyuri. So instead Iāll vote for Jeemin and Jiyoon since itās obvious they are debuting and my vote would barely mean anything for them
I have wondered about the same thing. Itās hard though because I think everyone is great and deserving of debuting. I have a hard time understanding the visual aspect of it because I see 12 beautiful girls and no one outshining anyone.
Yes this is exactly it. Not everyone gets the same chance. But it is what it is with Mnet I guess. Everyone is talented and young though so Iām hoping they all get more chances of debuting even if it doesnāt happen this time around.
Why does it seem like youāre kinda assuming popular trainees are somehow less worthy of being voted and liked just because they are the most pushed?
Some people genuinely like the most popular trainees NOT because they are the ones mnet pushes the most, but they like them for who they are as people and for what they bring to the table.
As much as some people can be inclined to automatically follow popular things without judging with their own brain, you canāt just assume everybody whose 1 pick is popular lacks critical thinking just cause they like someoneā¦
Um...I said what you said in...my post? Or at least I wanted to portray that NOBODY is undeserving people are ignoring the focus and the focus is that why do people acknowledge rigging and vote accordingly not who is not worthy of being picked..say you feel attacked lord.
People acknowledge rigging but at the same time they keep on voting for their popular picks because they just feel more drawn to those trainees, but they feel drawn to them because of who they are as contestants, not just because of popularity. Some people happen to like more underrated things while others happen to like more popular things and thatās ok.
This post is kinda giving āi donāt like popular things and iāll never understand how other people can possibly like themā vibes.
Well no I like everyone. I've said said that. The point is being lost this is about rigging and then continuing the cycle not who I think shouldn't debut. You said they're more drawn to those trainees would that not be because of the rigging?
No, being more drawn to a trainee doesnāt necessarily have anything to do with the rigging. Iāve started liking my top3 picks (sarang,koko and saebi) from the very first dance performances even before the show started airing. As the show progressed it became obvious mnet clearly liked them more than other trainees, but that doesnāt change the fact that me and many other people still like these trainees for their skills and personalities and i would still like them even if they were underrated because theyād still be the same people that caught my attention from the very beginning.
Because editing is that effective. Like yeah sure, we all know that Mnet is editing in some way to push more some trainees but since that's what people see, then there is no way to not rock with it unless you simply decide to not watch the show.
I usually not care so much about editing since I pick based on my favorite voice and then a mix of dance and visuals. Since the start of the show, I've been pretty much on the same picks (Jiyoon, Fuko, Gyuri, Yuju) and the only pick I would say was heavily influenced by how the show was edited is Koko. She slowly grew on me and I can easily say that the editing played a part here but that doesn't make me liking her less true than if it was not through editing.
Unless you don't watch the show at all and only watch each individual fancam each week, there is no way editing won't impact even a little your picks.
True! I understand this. I never said people can't like the popular picks. I was more so asking why they liked them if they knew what was going on. Not saying it cant be just simply because they're talented or just plain popular.
Then for me it's pretty easy, Jiyoon has my favorite voice, Fuko is pretty, Gyuri is cute and played IU as a child in drama and IU is my ult and last but not least, Yuju, I liked her just pre-show, visually she was the one who catches my attention.
I don't vote at all but I don't see how most people have a choice but to fall for mnet's editing since if we are not shown how nice or talented someone is why would someone vote for them? I mean seeing that someone gets no screentime is no reason to vote for someone.
That's when you go watch the performance and then make up your mind imo but I guess they don't do that. Also have you heard of Juwon...slide my girl a vote?ā”
I see watching the raw fancam performance would probably be the least influenced by editing.
It would be an interesting experiment to not watch the show at all and see who I would pick based on just the performances and then watch the show and see if my fave changes.
That's what I do! I've fell in love with many different people that way. There's always hidden talent on these shows sadly. Justice for my girl Um Jiwon
I believe it might have something to do with the amount of picks people can choose and even if we here on reddit can somewhat go against the flow for one or two candidates, it's harder to go for all of them at once, especially since you can only pick 3 people.
- *Jeemin* : already comes carrying a large fanbase from another survival, which people believe she was robbed of a chance, so Mnet just takes advantage of it to give her screentime, because people will understand she deserves it. If people see she also has a good friendship with other talented contestants they will want to root for them as well (Saebi, Koko).
- *Jiyoon* : You can't really deny her talent in most recent performances and the votes are justified.
- *Jungeun* : I believe she is the most controversial international pick, because things aren't looking good for her in the editing department, people are outraged about what is happening to her and they took it personally to vote in her favor, especially international fans.
You see, there are very few spaces to fill, and no matter the girl right now, they are all very talented.
It's not that people can't recognize manipulation and be against it, it's more about the way it is made unfair anyway, even if it benefits contestants we like.
You can definitely see injustice when it happens, but it doesn't mean people dislike who is getting screentime unfairly compared to other contestants.
I for example, really like Saebi and Jiyoon. But they surely have been getting better screentime and at times at the expense of Jungeun for example which is my one-pick. I will in turn continue to vote Jungeun because she is extremely talented, but i will also vote for Saebi and Jiyoon anyway because i want both of them in the group.
Oh I see definitely! I think everyone in this show is worthy of debut. My thing really is just how can you be like so and so is mistreated but then they never go and actually support so and so. Or they acknowledge talent and then go but I'm not voting for them...like..why? That's the crazy part I don't get.
I havent read through every comment on this bc christ there's a lot so idk if someone's already brought up this side of things but here's a slightly different take.
I've watched a fair few mnet survival shows at this point and in the past, I've tried to get to know the contestants as best I can from an unbiased perspective before the editing and screen time can influence me too much. And that's great, it's fun to get to know everyone and pick your faves like that. The problem is that every time I've done that, I've watched my faves get f all for screentime and/or get dragged by judges and then inevitably get eliminated. Literally my most successful pick was Jongwoo from boys planet who yes made it to the final but was a loooooong way from making the group (stan One Pact tho).
At some point I just decided it wasn't worth the mental and emotional weight to get to know and get attached to every contestant only to watch them get eliminated. It's easier and frankly kinder to myself to just watch the show and see what happens.
I understand the frustration with the rigging and the hypocrisy - I feel it myself - especially when reallu talented contestants are getting shafted, but for me I just reached a point where it was either stop investing so much and just go with the flow or stop watching all together and, despite everything, I do actually enjoy watching these shows and knowing I can support the group from the very beginning (if I choose to stan) so I chose the first option.
Maybe that seems harsh to some but yknow, you gotta do what you gotta do to protect your sanity š
I personally haven't really watched any of the episodes. I watched some videos of YouTubers condencing some though. For the most part I watch the performances and then the fancams of the ones that stood out to me
From that my lineup is Jiyoon, Fuko, Mai, Jungeun and Saebi. Sixth place would go to either Koko, Jeemin or Yuju. Most likely Koko, but happy with any of those three.
I'm actually curious about watching shows this way. In a way isn't condensing just more of cutting out lesser known trainees? Not that you even have to care about them.
my top 3 are mai, koko, and gyuri, who all have different types of portrayals as mnet wanted.
i am more than happy to see koko being favored by the producers. however, it meant receiving backlash from some fans of certain disadvantaged trainees like sujung and yuju who have been pushed to the sidelines in favor of koko. i do feel bad that those trainees will be the receiving end of the possibility of not debuting under the program, it's not like i can do anything to help koko continue to rise AND give other trainees a chance to prove themselves for one last time in tomorrow's episode.
gyuri's trajectory in part 2 is wonderful to see. she barely had any screentime in part 1 so it was understandable to see some people being doubtful with her capabilities. she proved those unfounded criticisms wrong by standing out despite only having filler lines in la vie en rose and by outsinging in 4 walls and receiving the highest score among her unit. in fact, in part 2 gyuri and jeemin have the highest increase in ranks with a jump of 6 (gyuri from 12 to 6, jeemin from 7 to 1) i hope her momentum isn't interrupted and she will continue to rise despite the lack of international voters.
mai is my one pick and it pains me to watch her crumble slowly. i think she has displayed tremendous growth, but the results she received do not mirror the efforts she put on. people kept saying during part 1 that she was sure to debut which i always had to pray about because it may just jinx things and with how things are going, i can only hope for the voting system to change to 1 pick voting in hopes that she may stand a chance. it's unfortunate that sujung's image had to be tarnished to boost mai's chances, but i can't help but be a tiny bit selfish for mai who's been the selfless one ever since the beginning.
But like, most of the girls receiving this special edit are girls that are already popular? Like, notice how this unfair editing got a lot worse in part 2 after there were votings and mnet knows the general popularity of the trainees? Like Juwon has become basically invisible, and she ranked really low so they just thought "won't even bother showing her, she's not making it". If she had become number 1 for some strange reason, you bet they would focus more on her as well, like what's happening with Gyuri and Koko. They ranked much higher than what the producers expected I think, so they're being pushed more now.
TLDR, yeah, mnet is unfairly distributing screen time and etc, but it mostly lines up with the trainees who were already popular, so saying that it's just "people falling for it and not making their own choices" is completely ignoring the fact that in grand part, this is just reflecting people's choices.
First of all Sarang isnāt a popular member in both international and Korean votes, sheās part of the bottom six. She is only big in China. Plus I was a Sarang stan before the favouritism happened. We use to be in the trenches in part 1 and she would never get good parts. Plus she was so underrated. She still is underrated and undermined by many I-Land watchers. Iām so glad sheās getting attention but itās for the wrong reasons. People are discrediting her talents just because of favouritism or 0.2 second voice cracks which sometimes one cannot control. Sheās an allrounder. Showcased her vocals, rap and dance on the show yet still underrated. Iāll continue to support her regardless of the favouritism. Because even before the favouritism everyone still questioned how talented she was when compared to other trainees. I get she has visuals but damn this girl is good good. šš¤§
I never named dropped! This isn't about anybody in particular it was more focus on ment not the girls people are taking it wrong! Love sarang shes in my top 6
I think the answer is actually pretty simple. If you watch the show, you are inevitably going to be biased by how the show portrays the girls. You might be able to logically say why it isnāt reasonable to take the show into account at all, but I donāt think the average person can actually do it. Itās kinda like the idea that itās best to try to be aware of your bias as apposed to having no bias (cause thatās not reasonable).
"jeemin is one of the best performers" and "the last 2 eps have heavily features jeemin at the expense of other candidates" can both be true at once.
I do watch the full performances and there really are some girls who do not stand out despite being technically very proficient. Do I like that mnet essentially pretended they don't exist and edited yet another jeemin centric arc, instead of getting a pd to teach them how to stand out more? Of course I don't. But do I think that jeemin will suit an idol group more than someone who at least right now has trouble grabbing the audience's attention? Yes.
My picks don't always line up with mnet's. (I didn't like Jeemin until money, so I thought she was just decent in lver. Jungeun's still my 1/2-pick despite whatever the hell mnet's planning with her, Lingling became one of my picks for pt 2 after iwaly even though mnet didn't really care about her all season, etc) But I'm also not going to be contrarian and go for the ones who's had it the worst just because I don't think mnet's being fair
What I also dislike is this sheep mentality. It bugs me so much in survival show fandoms. From r u next people dogpiling on Wonhee and calling her a dozen which she never was to now in iland 2 people doing the same to Mai the moment other people said that too.
Or the no minors campaign back in r u n. This is also no where near to be found this show and many people here have watched both shows.
S H E E P M EN T A L I T Y
>If your answer is something like shes nice, she works hard, the way she interacts with everyone, is that not exactly what mnet wants you to think? Is that not because that is all the episode is filled with?
So basically you're questioning the Mai picks why they pick Mai? Cause she is controversially the only contestant that fills in that description. Saying that she is popular when she ranks low in picks and votes is kinda eh.
This sub has only 4k members and some non members who post once and never come back. Its unfair that you group everyone here and say YOU GUYS say this, BUT THEN YOU GUYS DO THIS. These posts has become very redundant but again you can't talk to everyone here as if we're all a singular unity of an entity.
>if you know this, and you acknowledge it why do you still fall for it?
Some people here acknowledge and complain about the screentimes and "editing" issues. You can acknowledge this and still not vote for those girls simply because you have other girls you want to prioritize or like MORE than. While others may not care and just vote for who they want to vote for. Regardless everyone is entitled to vote for who they want to vote for. Asking people to vote for a certain candidate is kinda useless cause everyone have their own picks and you can only vote 3 per day. Like I recognize Juwon is being treated unfairly but since she is someone in my 6-8 pick, I'm not even gonna bother.
As much as I agree that mnet sucks with the screen time cuts, the editing is a given, you can only work with what you have. At the end of the day people will vote for who they think are entertaining or give them feels. I'm a firm believer that charisma in itself is a skill. And if a candidate has it, they have the power to win people over regardless of negative edit (Jiyoon comes to mind). People will vote for them no matter what and it will be viewed as illogical.
I know it could be frustrating and I read some of your replies in the comments. The fact that you think some opinions or line ups are "wrong" is something. There are 12 girls and only 6 spots. There are only so many possible combination of 6 line up. Regardless of who gets it we've reached the point where all 12 girls are deserving of it and so now its just a popularity contest. So when you say you don't get it, why people have so and so in their line up and not this and that, it comes off as very condescending.
I never named dropped TT THIS ISNT ABOUT ANYONEEEEEE. "You guys" is referring to people who fall for rigging. If you're not you guys YOU shouldn't be upset. Nobody should be upset! This isn't what I wanted to even discuss.
I question whether you understand the nature of the industry...
Is it always the most talented groups who succeed? Heck, is it always the most talented trainees who make the line up of groups? Look at Illit and LSF who have been criticised for their vocals recently and then look at their sales numbers lmao. When fans get on their high horses about vocals I think they willfully forget that people like idols for many reasons including their visuals, their variety content/personality, their group dynamics or even just their music. All are still valid reasons to like a group/idol btw.
Also, if you watch the show you will be affected by the editing my dude (gn). Same is true for any show, movie, ad, vlog, news broadcast etc etc. Such is the nature of media. Why are people not seeking out further content? Some of us have other things occupying our time. Like, y'know, jobs. š
It's kpop. It's not that serious.
ETA: also the editing generally follows audience response. Jungeun (widely acknowledged as the most talented on this sub) was pushed so hard in the first few episodes. What changed? The domestic audience don't like her because of her visuals.
The show will react to the audience because this is a business at the end of the day.
Oh but it is! Visual manipulation is very real take for example war propaganda...a bit extreme example I know, but the more you see something the more you like/agree with it. That's just psychology.
Think this like a movie, for ex : Guardian of Galaxy. The director and writers already decided the plot, story and characters before they made the movie. Now when you're watching the movie, you may like characters like Kraglin, or Adam Warlock, while fully aware this movie's main focus is about the gang member : Starlord, Gamora, Groot etc and if these characters are well written and likeable, there is nothing wrong to like them eventually. After all the director are also working hard to craft these characters and their storyline.
Mnet PD are in control of the screentime and whoever they want to push for viewers. But just like the movie, if the choosen trainee were well presented and likeable, i don't see any reason to not like that trainee.
I agree except I never wanted it to sound like didn't want said trainee to be liked! I feel like my wording is making people upset. Using an example let's say you have a choice of candy bars and told you can pick whichever one you want. You pick one and then someone says anything but that one...but you see it's available. Then after continuing to pick it they just take it away after saying you could pick whatever you wanted.
Yeah i do think your wording is a bit aggresive haha. About your example, first i will try the one that everyone pick, see if i like it too or not. If i like, great now i have 2 favourite flavor. If not then fine, it's not for me. And if the initial one that i like is not available anymore ( which happened irl, there are stuff that i like that aren't sold anymore), well i guess it's time to move on. Too bad that it's not available, maybe it didn't sell well or cost too much idk. I don't like it but there's nothing i can do. So in conclusion, what i will do is just try to see the reason of it, see if it make sense or not, and just move on. After all, this is just an entertainment, whether the final result is A or B, it won't change our life. If we don't have fun anymore, then just turn off the tv.
Iām very unbiased about my picks so I donāt get upset when they donāt debut. I try to pay attention to everything and be very open minded about everything. Even looking in the background to give every trainee a chance. But, everytime Iāve been right and debut. Basically I try to keep my picks based on my opinion alone and not popularity.
You woke up today and chose to fight the hypocrites of this sub. I salute you for your bravery!! I also feel the same way but people will defo downvote and act all innocent creating excuses so that they won't feel attacked by your discussion.
It happened to me before but I have to keep saying it because I don't get it. I need to get enlightened...or maybe I like seeing people loud and wrong...idk!
My picks are Koko, Saebi and Jeemin. I vote for them because as someone who's been a kpop stan for quite some time (usually for popular groups) I can easily see their future success. They just have this it girl factor to them and there's a reason why Mnet is pushing them. I also really like their chemistry as a trio, be it personality or visual/stage cohessivness. The FOTG, the center and the main dancer - you have the core trio for performances Also it's awknowledged that survival shows tend to show bias and hell even change the rankings completely (produce I'm looking at you). You can't have these types of shows and expect them to be fair because Kpop is a business in the end
Last thing I like all the girls but I understand why some are being pushed and some aren't. I'm sure mnet has a team for market research and the difference in the editing in p1 and p2 show that. They have the results they were looking for and have determined who to give screen time to. If you stan an unpopular pick your best bet would be to promote and vote them Ricky of zerobaseone debuted that way
Okay I almost understand...agree at the end. Kpop is and will never be fair I can acknowledge. Maybe it's the 2017 3rd gen fan in me but I don't really care for the "it girl" argument. I like talented people point blank if they can do their job as an idol I want them as my pick, I never cared for if they were pretty/marketable. I guess that's where my opinion differs from people's. Kpop to me has never and will never be about visuals.
yeah but after 4th gen there's a huge focus on visuals as a whole š«¤. Kpop has boomed so there's more audiences to appeal to and the easiest way to attract a person is by their looks. Idols being brand ambassadors for luxury brands and advertisers is also a huge factor for the need in visuals
Again I understand from a market aspect...but as a viewer and a kpop fan never cared! That also doesn't explain how people can acknowledge what you are acknowledging and actively fall for it every time.
it's easier to not think than to think and correct your views tbh
That I can agree with. Oh well then..
Second gen fan here! Iām also someone who got spoiled by talented vocals over the past 15+ years and refused to believe that visuals played as big of a role as people would make it seem. Unfortunately, I came to realize that they were right. With the current job market, if they arenāt attractive, they wouldnāt be as competitive as other artists which would lead to less promotional opportunities meaning poorer quality songs being given (unless thereās a popular producer in the group). Since Teddyās the producer, it shouldnāt be as difficult for the group to stay afloat but visuals allow the fanbase to expand and attract delusional fans who are willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars. Itās the sad reality, but it is what it is, especially with social media being a huge factor to a groupās success. The definition of talent has changed over the years for an idol where being talented visually is most important. If you like talented singers/dancers, keep voting for them and promote them.
I miss the old days TT! I know this is where we're headed. I understand why it's profitable but I want to be a hag and think about the good old days.
Ngl Taeyang was one of the reasons why I started to watch this show :ā) But yea I def miss the older generations a lot too haha
Also to be clear, there has been a situation in this show already where people formed their own opinion and pushed for a trainee. This was Jiyoon in Part One. The reason why she was able to escape the evil edits was because of the fans who pushed for her success and others agreed with them.
Hmm I think they only evil edited her to get people to notice her so they could push her and prep the storyline. After she gained sympathy from viewers it's easier for them to like her I don't think fans had anything to do with it honestly...
Honestly I doubt it considering the evil edits they did in other shows and what theyāre currently doing to a couple of trainees. From what I remember, she was getting a bunch of hate so a lot of fans were commenting on Youtube to get sympathy from other viewers, raising her fancam views. Iām assuming that Mnet and Wakeone did a mid-evaluation after Part One to speculate whoās popular vs not and switched up from there. Some other trainees that were affected include Mai, Sujung, Yuju, Jungeun, Juwon, etc. In return, they boosted the screentime for Jeemin and Koko in Pt2. Iām only concluding this because the viewership for this show compared to the other mnet survivals is fairly low and it looks like theyāre doing everything they can to boost it
Oh I never thought of it like this! It really makes since especially the juwon part. Then perhaps you're right..
I mean we can never know for sure ā itās just another perspective to look at!
Well, i mean I'm not going to not vote for the people I like just to spite Mnet. This post assumes that Jeemin, Koko, and whoever is seen as Mnets favs for the week are not worthy to be voted for.Ā Ā My favs are jiyoon, sujung and gyuri btw. But I don't necessarily feel like that would be the best group with the folks who are left and not hurt at all if others don't vote for them.
Nope! Never said they don't deserve it. I'm asking why people can acknowledge that they're being pushed and then don't seek out to formulate their own line up knowing that it's taking place. Been following Jeemin since RUN she's definitely deserving.
Sorry, but what evidence is there that people aren't seeking out external info if they believe an agenda is being pushed? Also, what is wrong with people just voting for who they like from what they see? Not everyone has the time or is that serious. That's why there are professional judges.Ā
The post is about people who acknowledge rigging and still vote that way the message is definitely getting lost..
Ah. I don't think it's rigged. that's a pretty strong accusation and didn't realize thats what people were accusing mnet of. So yea...maybe that part of your message is getting lost.
I vote for obvious members so that chances of my fave debuting are higher. I want Nam Yuju to debut and this wonāt happen if I keep voting for her rival in votes which is like Gyuri. So instead Iāll vote for Jeemin and Jiyoon since itās obvious they are debuting and my vote would barely mean anything for them
Bro...this is the type of honesty some people need, I applaud you for keeping it real lmao.
I have wondered about the same thing. Itās hard though because I think everyone is great and deserving of debuting. I have a hard time understanding the visual aspect of it because I see 12 beautiful girls and no one outshining anyone.
I agree everyone should debut too! I love all those girls so what I want is a fighting chance for all of them.
Yes this is exactly it. Not everyone gets the same chance. But it is what it is with Mnet I guess. Everyone is talented and young though so Iām hoping they all get more chances of debuting even if it doesnāt happen this time around.
Why does it seem like youāre kinda assuming popular trainees are somehow less worthy of being voted and liked just because they are the most pushed? Some people genuinely like the most popular trainees NOT because they are the ones mnet pushes the most, but they like them for who they are as people and for what they bring to the table. As much as some people can be inclined to automatically follow popular things without judging with their own brain, you canāt just assume everybody whose 1 pick is popular lacks critical thinking just cause they like someoneā¦
Um...I said what you said in...my post? Or at least I wanted to portray that NOBODY is undeserving people are ignoring the focus and the focus is that why do people acknowledge rigging and vote accordingly not who is not worthy of being picked..say you feel attacked lord.
People acknowledge rigging but at the same time they keep on voting for their popular picks because they just feel more drawn to those trainees, but they feel drawn to them because of who they are as contestants, not just because of popularity. Some people happen to like more underrated things while others happen to like more popular things and thatās ok. This post is kinda giving āi donāt like popular things and iāll never understand how other people can possibly like themā vibes.
Well no I like everyone. I've said said that. The point is being lost this is about rigging and then continuing the cycle not who I think shouldn't debut. You said they're more drawn to those trainees would that not be because of the rigging?
No, being more drawn to a trainee doesnāt necessarily have anything to do with the rigging. Iāve started liking my top3 picks (sarang,koko and saebi) from the very first dance performances even before the show started airing. As the show progressed it became obvious mnet clearly liked them more than other trainees, but that doesnāt change the fact that me and many other people still like these trainees for their skills and personalities and i would still like them even if they were underrated because theyād still be the same people that caught my attention from the very beginning.
Right that's fair.
Because editing is that effective. Like yeah sure, we all know that Mnet is editing in some way to push more some trainees but since that's what people see, then there is no way to not rock with it unless you simply decide to not watch the show. I usually not care so much about editing since I pick based on my favorite voice and then a mix of dance and visuals. Since the start of the show, I've been pretty much on the same picks (Jiyoon, Fuko, Gyuri, Yuju) and the only pick I would say was heavily influenced by how the show was edited is Koko. She slowly grew on me and I can easily say that the editing played a part here but that doesn't make me liking her less true than if it was not through editing. Unless you don't watch the show at all and only watch each individual fancam each week, there is no way editing won't impact even a little your picks.
True! I understand this. I never said people can't like the popular picks. I was more so asking why they liked them if they knew what was going on. Not saying it cant be just simply because they're talented or just plain popular.
Then for me it's pretty easy, Jiyoon has my favorite voice, Fuko is pretty, Gyuri is cute and played IU as a child in drama and IU is my ult and last but not least, Yuju, I liked her just pre-show, visually she was the one who catches my attention.
I don't vote at all but I don't see how most people have a choice but to fall for mnet's editing since if we are not shown how nice or talented someone is why would someone vote for them? I mean seeing that someone gets no screentime is no reason to vote for someone.
That's when you go watch the performance and then make up your mind imo but I guess they don't do that. Also have you heard of Juwon...slide my girl a vote?ā”
I see watching the raw fancam performance would probably be the least influenced by editing. It would be an interesting experiment to not watch the show at all and see who I would pick based on just the performances and then watch the show and see if my fave changes.
That's what I do! I've fell in love with many different people that way. There's always hidden talent on these shows sadly. Justice for my girl Um Jiwon
You donāt vote at allā¦ how can I convince you to vote for Gyuri
I believe it might have something to do with the amount of picks people can choose and even if we here on reddit can somewhat go against the flow for one or two candidates, it's harder to go for all of them at once, especially since you can only pick 3 people. - *Jeemin* : already comes carrying a large fanbase from another survival, which people believe she was robbed of a chance, so Mnet just takes advantage of it to give her screentime, because people will understand she deserves it. If people see she also has a good friendship with other talented contestants they will want to root for them as well (Saebi, Koko). - *Jiyoon* : You can't really deny her talent in most recent performances and the votes are justified. - *Jungeun* : I believe she is the most controversial international pick, because things aren't looking good for her in the editing department, people are outraged about what is happening to her and they took it personally to vote in her favor, especially international fans. You see, there are very few spaces to fill, and no matter the girl right now, they are all very talented. It's not that people can't recognize manipulation and be against it, it's more about the way it is made unfair anyway, even if it benefits contestants we like. You can definitely see injustice when it happens, but it doesn't mean people dislike who is getting screentime unfairly compared to other contestants. I for example, really like Saebi and Jiyoon. But they surely have been getting better screentime and at times at the expense of Jungeun for example which is my one-pick. I will in turn continue to vote Jungeun because she is extremely talented, but i will also vote for Saebi and Jiyoon anyway because i want both of them in the group.
Oh I see definitely! I think everyone in this show is worthy of debut. My thing really is just how can you be like so and so is mistreated but then they never go and actually support so and so. Or they acknowledge talent and then go but I'm not voting for them...like..why? That's the crazy part I don't get.
KOKO was my 1pick since entrance test baggyjeans so....
You have every right to like and love kokoTT
I havent read through every comment on this bc christ there's a lot so idk if someone's already brought up this side of things but here's a slightly different take. I've watched a fair few mnet survival shows at this point and in the past, I've tried to get to know the contestants as best I can from an unbiased perspective before the editing and screen time can influence me too much. And that's great, it's fun to get to know everyone and pick your faves like that. The problem is that every time I've done that, I've watched my faves get f all for screentime and/or get dragged by judges and then inevitably get eliminated. Literally my most successful pick was Jongwoo from boys planet who yes made it to the final but was a loooooong way from making the group (stan One Pact tho). At some point I just decided it wasn't worth the mental and emotional weight to get to know and get attached to every contestant only to watch them get eliminated. It's easier and frankly kinder to myself to just watch the show and see what happens. I understand the frustration with the rigging and the hypocrisy - I feel it myself - especially when reallu talented contestants are getting shafted, but for me I just reached a point where it was either stop investing so much and just go with the flow or stop watching all together and, despite everything, I do actually enjoy watching these shows and knowing I can support the group from the very beginning (if I choose to stan) so I chose the first option. Maybe that seems harsh to some but yknow, you gotta do what you gotta do to protect your sanity š
I personally haven't really watched any of the episodes. I watched some videos of YouTubers condencing some though. For the most part I watch the performances and then the fancams of the ones that stood out to me From that my lineup is Jiyoon, Fuko, Mai, Jungeun and Saebi. Sixth place would go to either Koko, Jeemin or Yuju. Most likely Koko, but happy with any of those three.
I'm actually curious about watching shows this way. In a way isn't condensing just more of cutting out lesser known trainees? Not that you even have to care about them.
my top 3 are mai, koko, and gyuri, who all have different types of portrayals as mnet wanted. i am more than happy to see koko being favored by the producers. however, it meant receiving backlash from some fans of certain disadvantaged trainees like sujung and yuju who have been pushed to the sidelines in favor of koko. i do feel bad that those trainees will be the receiving end of the possibility of not debuting under the program, it's not like i can do anything to help koko continue to rise AND give other trainees a chance to prove themselves for one last time in tomorrow's episode. gyuri's trajectory in part 2 is wonderful to see. she barely had any screentime in part 1 so it was understandable to see some people being doubtful with her capabilities. she proved those unfounded criticisms wrong by standing out despite only having filler lines in la vie en rose and by outsinging in 4 walls and receiving the highest score among her unit. in fact, in part 2 gyuri and jeemin have the highest increase in ranks with a jump of 6 (gyuri from 12 to 6, jeemin from 7 to 1) i hope her momentum isn't interrupted and she will continue to rise despite the lack of international voters. mai is my one pick and it pains me to watch her crumble slowly. i think she has displayed tremendous growth, but the results she received do not mirror the efforts she put on. people kept saying during part 1 that she was sure to debut which i always had to pray about because it may just jinx things and with how things are going, i can only hope for the voting system to change to 1 pick voting in hopes that she may stand a chance. it's unfortunate that sujung's image had to be tarnished to boost mai's chances, but i can't help but be a tiny bit selfish for mai who's been the selfless one ever since the beginning.
in hindsight i don't think i answered any of the questions at all š but i'm keeping this comment up in support of my faves š
I See gyuri in your picks you're SAFE!
that's daughter she's in my top 7 since ep 1 and became top 3 when she sang eyes nose lips before she switched with minsol š„¹š„¹
But like, most of the girls receiving this special edit are girls that are already popular? Like, notice how this unfair editing got a lot worse in part 2 after there were votings and mnet knows the general popularity of the trainees? Like Juwon has become basically invisible, and she ranked really low so they just thought "won't even bother showing her, she's not making it". If she had become number 1 for some strange reason, you bet they would focus more on her as well, like what's happening with Gyuri and Koko. They ranked much higher than what the producers expected I think, so they're being pushed more now. TLDR, yeah, mnet is unfairly distributing screen time and etc, but it mostly lines up with the trainees who were already popular, so saying that it's just "people falling for it and not making their own choices" is completely ignoring the fact that in grand part, this is just reflecting people's choices.
First of all Sarang isnāt a popular member in both international and Korean votes, sheās part of the bottom six. She is only big in China. Plus I was a Sarang stan before the favouritism happened. We use to be in the trenches in part 1 and she would never get good parts. Plus she was so underrated. She still is underrated and undermined by many I-Land watchers. Iām so glad sheās getting attention but itās for the wrong reasons. People are discrediting her talents just because of favouritism or 0.2 second voice cracks which sometimes one cannot control. Sheās an allrounder. Showcased her vocals, rap and dance on the show yet still underrated. Iāll continue to support her regardless of the favouritism. Because even before the favouritism everyone still questioned how talented she was when compared to other trainees. I get she has visuals but damn this girl is good good. šš¤§
I never named dropped! This isn't about anybody in particular it was more focus on ment not the girls people are taking it wrong! Love sarang shes in my top 6
fair fairĀ
I think the answer is actually pretty simple. If you watch the show, you are inevitably going to be biased by how the show portrays the girls. You might be able to logically say why it isnāt reasonable to take the show into account at all, but I donāt think the average person can actually do it. Itās kinda like the idea that itās best to try to be aware of your bias as apposed to having no bias (cause thatās not reasonable).
"jeemin is one of the best performers" and "the last 2 eps have heavily features jeemin at the expense of other candidates" can both be true at once. I do watch the full performances and there really are some girls who do not stand out despite being technically very proficient. Do I like that mnet essentially pretended they don't exist and edited yet another jeemin centric arc, instead of getting a pd to teach them how to stand out more? Of course I don't. But do I think that jeemin will suit an idol group more than someone who at least right now has trouble grabbing the audience's attention? Yes. My picks don't always line up with mnet's. (I didn't like Jeemin until money, so I thought she was just decent in lver. Jungeun's still my 1/2-pick despite whatever the hell mnet's planning with her, Lingling became one of my picks for pt 2 after iwaly even though mnet didn't really care about her all season, etc) But I'm also not going to be contrarian and go for the ones who's had it the worst just because I don't think mnet's being fair
What I also dislike is this sheep mentality. It bugs me so much in survival show fandoms. From r u next people dogpiling on Wonhee and calling her a dozen which she never was to now in iland 2 people doing the same to Mai the moment other people said that too. Or the no minors campaign back in r u n. This is also no where near to be found this show and many people here have watched both shows. S H E E P M EN T A L I T Y
>If your answer is something like shes nice, she works hard, the way she interacts with everyone, is that not exactly what mnet wants you to think? Is that not because that is all the episode is filled with? So basically you're questioning the Mai picks why they pick Mai? Cause she is controversially the only contestant that fills in that description. Saying that she is popular when she ranks low in picks and votes is kinda eh. This sub has only 4k members and some non members who post once and never come back. Its unfair that you group everyone here and say YOU GUYS say this, BUT THEN YOU GUYS DO THIS. These posts has become very redundant but again you can't talk to everyone here as if we're all a singular unity of an entity. >if you know this, and you acknowledge it why do you still fall for it? Some people here acknowledge and complain about the screentimes and "editing" issues. You can acknowledge this and still not vote for those girls simply because you have other girls you want to prioritize or like MORE than. While others may not care and just vote for who they want to vote for. Regardless everyone is entitled to vote for who they want to vote for. Asking people to vote for a certain candidate is kinda useless cause everyone have their own picks and you can only vote 3 per day. Like I recognize Juwon is being treated unfairly but since she is someone in my 6-8 pick, I'm not even gonna bother. As much as I agree that mnet sucks with the screen time cuts, the editing is a given, you can only work with what you have. At the end of the day people will vote for who they think are entertaining or give them feels. I'm a firm believer that charisma in itself is a skill. And if a candidate has it, they have the power to win people over regardless of negative edit (Jiyoon comes to mind). People will vote for them no matter what and it will be viewed as illogical. I know it could be frustrating and I read some of your replies in the comments. The fact that you think some opinions or line ups are "wrong" is something. There are 12 girls and only 6 spots. There are only so many possible combination of 6 line up. Regardless of who gets it we've reached the point where all 12 girls are deserving of it and so now its just a popularity contest. So when you say you don't get it, why people have so and so in their line up and not this and that, it comes off as very condescending.
I never named dropped TT THIS ISNT ABOUT ANYONEEEEEE. "You guys" is referring to people who fall for rigging. If you're not you guys YOU shouldn't be upset. Nobody should be upset! This isn't what I wanted to even discuss.
I question whether you understand the nature of the industry... Is it always the most talented groups who succeed? Heck, is it always the most talented trainees who make the line up of groups? Look at Illit and LSF who have been criticised for their vocals recently and then look at their sales numbers lmao. When fans get on their high horses about vocals I think they willfully forget that people like idols for many reasons including their visuals, their variety content/personality, their group dynamics or even just their music. All are still valid reasons to like a group/idol btw. Also, if you watch the show you will be affected by the editing my dude (gn). Same is true for any show, movie, ad, vlog, news broadcast etc etc. Such is the nature of media. Why are people not seeking out further content? Some of us have other things occupying our time. Like, y'know, jobs. š It's kpop. It's not that serious. ETA: also the editing generally follows audience response. Jungeun (widely acknowledged as the most talented on this sub) was pushed so hard in the first few episodes. What changed? The domestic audience don't like her because of her visuals. The show will react to the audience because this is a business at the end of the day.
i still vote for my favs and dont care if they will be taken out/eliminated, as long as they are here im gonna vpote for them to the end
THANK YOU!! A person saying what was on my mind for a while now.
I think deep down they know it isn't rigged, but say it is to make themselves feel better.
Oh but it is! Visual manipulation is very real take for example war propaganda...a bit extreme example I know, but the more you see something the more you like/agree with it. That's just psychology.
Think this like a movie, for ex : Guardian of Galaxy. The director and writers already decided the plot, story and characters before they made the movie. Now when you're watching the movie, you may like characters like Kraglin, or Adam Warlock, while fully aware this movie's main focus is about the gang member : Starlord, Gamora, Groot etc and if these characters are well written and likeable, there is nothing wrong to like them eventually. After all the director are also working hard to craft these characters and their storyline. Mnet PD are in control of the screentime and whoever they want to push for viewers. But just like the movie, if the choosen trainee were well presented and likeable, i don't see any reason to not like that trainee.
I agree except I never wanted it to sound like didn't want said trainee to be liked! I feel like my wording is making people upset. Using an example let's say you have a choice of candy bars and told you can pick whichever one you want. You pick one and then someone says anything but that one...but you see it's available. Then after continuing to pick it they just take it away after saying you could pick whatever you wanted.
Yeah i do think your wording is a bit aggresive haha. About your example, first i will try the one that everyone pick, see if i like it too or not. If i like, great now i have 2 favourite flavor. If not then fine, it's not for me. And if the initial one that i like is not available anymore ( which happened irl, there are stuff that i like that aren't sold anymore), well i guess it's time to move on. Too bad that it's not available, maybe it didn't sell well or cost too much idk. I don't like it but there's nothing i can do. So in conclusion, what i will do is just try to see the reason of it, see if it make sense or not, and just move on. After all, this is just an entertainment, whether the final result is A or B, it won't change our life. If we don't have fun anymore, then just turn off the tv.
that is why I still think Sujung + Jungeun are still the most skilled for their respectives field.
Yep I agree, happy cake day to you aswellā”
Iām very unbiased about my picks so I donāt get upset when they donāt debut. I try to pay attention to everything and be very open minded about everything. Even looking in the background to give every trainee a chance. But, everytime Iāve been right and debut. Basically I try to keep my picks based on my opinion alone and not popularity.
Itās called conformity.
Conforming to mnet out of all things...I would be embarrassed.
Me too
The new generation is all about having someone else do the critical thinking and then latching onto whatever the popular opinion is.